470 ci project underway!! Pistons and girdle install

Just got the 400 block back from Automotive Machine in Fraser, Mi
These guys do quality work and are EASY to deal with. Just sprayed a fresh coat of insulator paint in the block and will get the crank installed next......

Looks great. Ron

can you share your plans for the rest of the combo?

This motor will be in a 70 Roadrunner 5 speed with 3.91 gears. The motor has the following:

Molnar 3.91 crank
Diamond custom pistons 10:9 CR
Molnar 6.535 H beam rods
Std port Victor heads gen 3 castings if I ever get them from Edelbrock
Hughes Hyd roller
Hughes rockers
Performer rpm intake
Holley 950 Ultra HP
TTI 1" 7/8's headers

Nice starting point. Good luck with the build.

Crank installed!!!!! I made a few mods to the SDC caps to make installation easy. A bevel was milled into the edge of the cap for easier install and less galling on the cap into the block registers. I also removed material from the inside of the washer countersink on the caps so the socket fits onto the nuts without the caps material interfering. Lastly I drilled out the #3 cap to 17/32 for easier thrust adjustment. I also brushed moly onto the cap edges and block registers to help prevent galling.

Who's main caps are you using?

SDC

Crank install!!!!!

Lookin good man..............

Looks good

Did you take the time to install the rear seal retainer, line up the seal grooves and make reference marks for proper location before the crank went in?

Yes

That's a good one

Thanks for paying attention

It's the small details that add up to complete satisfaction.

Good looking build!

Do not use any lube or any other materials between the mating surface, all of them, of the block and main caps
They need metal to metal contact only to mate, center and hold the caps in properly

What brand main studs are those?

Those are ARP's

Got it

But I just love the silky smooth moly brushed up against the aluminum caps
The caps glide into the cap regesters like butter and no chafing

Mmmmm

You will be sorry
Did you use the lube on the caps like that when you measure the bearing to crank clearances ? If so you got a false reading

I'm not worried about it. All my measurements matched what my machinest said they were. When I build a stock cap engine I leave the caps dry, aluminum caps get the edge beveled and a coat of moly. I don't like galled up parts. I'm sure your way works great for you, my way works great for me.

nice build. I've heard both theories on the lubrication. personally I put mine in dry, and if you install the main studs first you can use them as a guide to slide the caps down and tap them into place. some guys like the bevels some don't. whatever you do, make your mods before the shop line bores it. its also good to simulate the install when line boring so that you and your shop do the exact same things.

keep us posted on the progress!!!!!

Thanks Jerry.

All mods were done before the line bore and hone.

Very, very nice stuff.

X

Does the lube increase the chance of cap walk?

Never install stuff dry. Oil gets between everything anyway

Did you buy your so called ARP studs yourself or did your machine shop ? Never seen ARP main studs without the hex key insert on the ends. I never put any lube on the main caps , aluminum or iron.

The studs are different for a reason. On top of the aluminum caps with be a much disputed girdle.

Living in southeast Michigan is a good thing in that no matter where you live a fasteners engineer that works for FCA is a stones throw away. I ran the lube vs no lube past my neighbor this morning and got this..

"If there is any built in interference between the cap and block it would cause a change in the joint seating torque. So with the lube,lower seating torque, without lube, higher seating torque.
However, if you are running them down by hand that would not matter nearly as much as if the caps were were being run down dynamically"

Ok, your ARP studs are special to use a girdle. My girdle use's ARP studs with the hex key insert. Did you read what you wrote about the lube between the caps? It doesn't make any sense. It sounds like you took what you wanted to hear from a lot of different answers . Good luck with your build, your going to need it.

It will be just FINE!!!!

[quote=rowin4]Ok, your ARP studs are special to use a girdle. My girdle use's ARP studs with the hex key insert. Did you read what you wrote about the lube between the caps? It doesn't make any sense. It sounds like you took what you wanted to hear from a lot of different answers . Good luck on your build your gonna need it quote]


I don't recall asking for any opinions. It's too bad you don't understand the information I provided. If you would like I can hook you up with the engineer who explained the lube vs dry deal. Perhaps he can bring it down a few notches so even you could understand...

You are very fortunate to have the hex in your ARP studs. Mine did not come that way from Hughes Engines. Maybe you could call Dave Hughes on my behalf and let him know how unfair it is that you have a hex in your studs and I don't..

Keep em coming, I love it!!!!!!!!!

Have you ever had to help educate any type of engineers? I have, some are great, most are normal and some have their suspicions that they are smarter than you are if you don't have a higher education degree than they do Some of them your wasting your time and breath on trying to help them Just like many people in every day life
You need to know and remember that many teachers teach thing they can't make a living doing :scope
Professors teach teachers
My last World block that was suppose to have ARP main studs didn't
Trust and verify

Well said Cab

The studs do say ARP on the ends. But then again, in this day and age they could be Chinese copies. The good news is Rowin4 is going to call Dave Hughes for me to verify the origins of the suspicious so-called ARP studs........

The next chapter should raise some additional controversy in that I will be installing a girdle on top of the aluminum caps!!!!! That should be fun......

On my SB main studs I have both the hex and
non hex style.. I dont know if they have a
different P/N or not.. never really mattered
to me... and I lube everything..I do wipe things
on the final assembly but there is still oil and
it gets primed while still on the stand.. oil is
a good thing

On small batches of arp studs from arp, some do not have the provision for the allen wrench.

Weather the op lubes the areas hes listing or not, it will still run the same.

Dave it looks very nice and I am happy that its starting to come together so nicely for you. I think you are going to have a very nice running car/combo that you will enjoy alot when you get her done.

One thing I might say that may help releif a little tension that no one needs and by all means I do not mean to step into anyone's affairs. But when my oldest son started taking auto shop in high school I sat him down and had a nice talk with him because I did not want any conflict to get in his way in auto shop since I had been an auto tech all my life and I told him to be sure to not get smart to or say any smart remarks to his shop teacher if he tells him how to do or work any job on a car that may be different then what I had taught him. I just wanted him to know that many auto techs might do the same job a little different sometimes and most of the times both ways may be right. One may just prefer a certain way better then a way another may do the job. And both ways can be right as we all have our certain preferences of a way we may do a job. I told him his teacher and I may do some jobs different and both ways can be right. I wanted him to understand we all may have little differences in how we do a job and both ways can be fine so for him to respect his teacher even if he does a job different then I may have showed him.
I see that many times in the automotive world and just because many of us do some jobs a little different dont mean one has to be wrong.
Good luck with this cool build and keep us posted on the progress. Ron

Thanks Ron

Moparts is very helpful. I've gathered a ton of good info from a few over the years. I've always wanted to build a 470 and finally have the opportunity to build one for a friend. I really believe it's one of the best combos for a low deck Mopar.

[quote=ccdave] Thanks Ron

Moparts is very helpful. I've gathered a ton of good info from a few over the years. I've always wanted to build a 470 and finally have the opportunity to build one for a friend. I really believe it's one of the best combos for a low deck Mopar.



Great combo for sure and a BLAST on the street..............

Yes Thumper your car is sure proof of that. Ron

Thankxxx..............

Rods and pistons installed without any clearance drama Very happy with the Molnar rods

More pics

Sorry for the double pics. Moparts does not like my I pad....

The girdle install on this engine took a little twist in that I decided to drill a hole in the girdle directly center between the studs on caps 1,2,3 and 4. Why not take advantage of the threaded 3/8's hole in the center of the aluminum caps and fasten the caps to the girdle. Introducing the worlds first 3 bolt main

Nice!Ever wonder about the shim variance?I used a 3/8 girdle on my iron caps.

How tight did you torque that center main cap bolt to?
Is it enough to lift and distort the main caps
Probably not a good idea to do that

Don't you worry Cab all shimmed up and tighted up to 25 ft pounds with a little locktight 👍 This idea was discussed with the owner of SDC who makes the caps along with ASE, NASA, the late Dick Landy and Kieth Richards from The Rolling Stones 👍

Pistons

Lookin' good! Love all the pics and descriptions in this thread.

Cab, our caps (bcrproducts) tend to be pretty tall in the middle of the cap. this allows for minor shimming and then interfacing with a girdle. if you're going to go this route we really recommend the girdle caps as more load is transferred to the girdle and away from the studs.

a lot of other after market aluminum caps are very similar to stock style caps and even if you use a longer stud on the girdle you're not gaining anything in terms of clamping.

Stay tuned!!!!!! Windage tray / oil pan install next!!!!!

Hey Dave love the pictures, love the build. Do yourself a favor and set both heads on the dowl-pins to make sure that they don't bottom out on the heads. They appear to be setting pretty high in the pictures. I cracked a set of very nice 906 heads many years ago by not checking this after the heads and block were surfaced at the machine shop. Well worth the 30 seconds it takes to check it with a feeler gauge.

Thanks for the tip!

Yep, I always install em w/no gasket and see how they fit and the same w/metering blocks on carbs...........