New COMP CAMS Nitriding wearing off?

Please take a look at the new Nitrided COMP cams I just received from COMP Cams. Is this normal for the Nitrided black finish to wear off just from touching it by hand??

This is a custom ordered Nitrided camshaft from Comp Cams.

I used to use Comp Cams exclusively

Lately, experiences by myself and others have led me to never purchase their products again!

Everything from crappy hydraulic roller lifters to flat tappet lifters that eat themselves to their ridiculous tech advice points to a company going down the tubes rather quickly.

I would call them and ask for a will call tag on the cam to have them look at it now before using it I have one on its way(custom hydraulic flat lifter cam grind nitrided) now for a SB Mopar pump gas stroker motor, if it looks like yours I will have them pick it up and replace it

Nitriding isn't a surface treatment as such, but a process that hardens the metals surface to a shallow depth. Not sure what's going on with the surface of your lobes though.

I thought the black coating was there to just prevent rust.

Im hoping it's only a coating to prevent rust.

Maybe others with chime in

I have a call into Comp cams and I'm waiting to hear back from them now

Just a question?
Before you came on here and expressed your concerns did you contact Comp about this. If so what did they say? If not why???

WIN racing,

Looks like we posted at the same time.

I have a call and pictures into them. Waiting to hear back.

I posted here last night while comp was closed hoping someone could shEd some light on this so I could sleep, if you know what I mean

That looks typical to me. I had a crankshaft offset ground an then had it plasma ion nitride, came back all black, it was a strange type of finish like you said you could effect it by rubbing it but not completely remove it . I had the crankshaft polished on the journals after. If your worried about the stuff on the bearings journals and lobes, you could probably polish with scotchbrite. The stuff on the surface isn't the nitriding, it goes .010-.030 deep.

Is that black stuff "Parkerizing"? It's supposed to wear off quickly

I was told years ago that nitriding (a chemical hardening process)would penetrate down into the parent metal .030
Parkerizing is the process used to make the black coating on most flat tappet cams

Nitriding process:

"The plasma nitriding process began in the 1920's as an alternative to conventional gas nitriding. After World War II the plasma nitriding process received widespread acceptance in Germany, Russia, China and Japan. The process was not introduced into the United States until after 1950 and has only been used as a production process for the past 20-25 years.

As technology progressed so did the plasma nitriding process. Improved controls and, in later years, the microprocessor have allowed engineers to consistently control the metallurgical properties of the nitride layer. This control, shorter cycle times, simplified masking techniques, less product distortion and a consistent reproducible process have lead to an increase in the popularity of the process in recent years.

The nitriding cycle begins by placing the product into the vacuum chamber and evacuating the chamber to a desired vacuum pressure. Upon reaching the desired vacuum, the unit is back-filled with a process gas to begin the preheating cycle. The standard preheating cycle ranges in temperature from 850 to 1050 Fahrenheit. When the preset heating time has elapsed, the product is subjected to an ion bombardment to clean impurities from the surface. The process gas is ionized by a voltage that is applied to the product.

This ionized gas collides with the product removing impurities from the surface and preparing the product for the nitriding process to begin. When the product surface has been cleaned sufficiently, the nitriding cycle begins. A controlled flow of nitrogen, hydrogen and methane are introduced into the chamber and ionized by the voltage applied to the product. The plasma generated by the ionization envelops the surface of the product with a blue-violet glow. The combination of the heat and energy of the plasma cause the gasses to react with nitride forming elements in the steel.

As the process gasses react with the elements in the steel, a wear resistant layer is formed. This layer can consist of a gamma prime Fe4N or an epsilon Fe2-3 N composition depending on the percentage of each gas in the chamber. The choice of the particular composition would depend on the application of the product in the field. In addition to increasing the steel's abrasion-resistance, the nitride layer also improves the fatigue strength and reduces the friction coefficient. The nitriding cycle is continued for 2 to 72 hours until the desired case depth of 0.002" to 0.024" is achieved. The processing time is dependent on the composition of the steel being nitrided and the required case depth. Low alloy steels are generally processed for longer cycle times."

I've been told it takes about 30hrs to do the cams.

Thanks to all for the valuable information.

I have read that nitrided camshafts do not have the Parkerizing coating applied. Not sure if that is true or not.

Comp cams called me and said they are reviewing my pictures and will call back soon.

My gut feeling is that the cam is okay, but the look of a few lobes just didn't look right.

My opinion is the same or similar tone B1Maxx and others

@Fast, I assume you have seen many Nitrided camshafts. Do you have an opinion that you could share regarding the black substance on the lobes?

I know MANY on the CC wagon but I call Isky direct and go that route w/springs and cams...........Had a CC failure years ago at Pettis on the dyno and freshened it up and went w/a solid Isky ft and all was good........

I don't recall having anything "rubbing off" on the nitrided cams, but because of what the process is I don't think I'd be too alarmed/concerned about it.
I guess I don't feel like the nitriding can just "rub off", so I probably would just clean it and run it, but I'll be interested in hearing what they(Comp) say about it and whether or not my actions would have been the right call or not.

Comp has several articles online of there process...

Depending on the speed and makeup of these nitrogen ions, some of them penetrate as far as .010-inches deep into the cam, while others bond themselves into the surface strata. The process creates three separate layers during the process. The deep layer, which provides strength against metal fatigue, is called the diffusion zone. A middle layer, called the compound zone, guards against abrasion and increases strength, while the surface layer affects the initial wear-in behavior of the cam, and gains lubricity from the nitriding process.

I heard back from Comp cams. They couldn't make heads or tails of whether or not the camshaft is okay or not. They suggested that I send it back to them for inspection.

However, they are working a reduced schedule between Christmas and New year's which is understandable. But that means I wouldn't get the camshaft back for at least two weeks if this cam indeed checks out okay. If it's deemed faulty them I'm looking at three weeks for new cam to be ground and Nitrided.

This completely blows my plans for getting the engine back together and in the car during my vacation time over the break unless I decide to run the cam as is.

I would only assume that Comp would simply grind me a new cam simply to keep the customer happy and not have another bad product out in the field.

Comp did state " I'm not sure how it made it past quality control". I replied back with yeah, me either... Thanks Comp!

I gut feeling says the cam is okay, my eyes tell me otherwise...

@All, for those of you who have used a Nitrided cam, does the black finish wear off after break in or normal use? Or is the black finish always present?

I'd like to say I'm surprised.

I'm not.

Wow. This does not speak well for Comp Cams.

the black finish on my nitrided cam mostly wore off where the lifters ride. i had my valley cover off after a few hundred miles to just take a look at things. the lifters i pulled looked to be spinning ok. i also had a few small scrape marks on the cam where the black finish came off when i assembled the engine. i didn't handle it much so i didn't have any issues rubbing it off. seems to be ok though.

I have to chuckle a bit here.

Comp are the "bad guys" here because the can't determine by looking at pics taken with a phone whether or not there is an issue with a cam.

Comp Cams is willing to take it back, check it and make it right. And that is a problem?

I now use Comp Cams exclusively. Not because everything I get from them is perfect, but because if I have a problem, I approach them with respect and I get respect in return, and, a resolution of my problem. If I must wait until after the New Year for a camshaft and that is the worst thing that happens to me for the rest of my life.......I'm in really good shape.

@Fast & Laroy,

Not sure who the comments were intended for but you did reply to my post...???

I personally never said they were "Bad Guys", maybe you're referring to comments from others. But THEY did allow a questionable camshaft to be released from their facility.

I certainly did not expect any miracles from them simply viewing the pictures. I was hoping that they would possibly come back and say that the black finish would wear off normally and its okay to run the cam, we checked the records for Nitrided process on that day, we reviewed it with the Engineer etc etc... But I had a feeling they were going to tell me to send it back. So they are trying to make it right.

However, regarding their comment about how they are "unsure how it made it past quality control". My opinion is that it should not have made it past QC unless there is truly no problem with the coating. And if that's the case, I would only assume and hope that they (Comp) reviewed all this before returning my phone call.



I paid over $300 for a flat tappet Hyd cam from them that is now questionable. Im certainly not the bad guy here....

I appreciate the help and info from all on this board. Thank you!

Im just in a bad spot at this point with the camshaft and current timing, I need to get this project wrapped up. 2017 is going to be a very busy year for me and I will have NO time to work with the engine or car. As I stated earlier my goal was to get this completed before the end of the holidays. That seems to be at Jeopardy at the moment. I need to decide if I want to risk it or revisit this in about 6-8 months when more time is on my side.

Thanks again, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year's to all!

I had mine nitrided also and other than the excessive casting flash on the sides of the lobes (whole other mess, which comp eventually took care of and I was delayed by 4 weeks) the coating on my cam still appears to be on the lobes it just looks a little polished now. When I saw your pics I thought I hope he sends it back just to be on the safe side. If you got lifters Id check the faces of them especially around the edge. I spent hours dressing up all of the burrs/nicks. I was leery that the burrs would grind into the lobes. Plus I had all kinds of dried muck inside of the lifters. Had to clean that out there again didnt want to possibly clog up the edm oiling hole. I think this will be my last dealings with Comp.

68 HEMI GTS,

Thank you for the valid input!

This is exactly what Im looking for, those who have used the cams and can provide their personal feedback.

IMO, at this point it's only "questionable" because you don't think it looks right.

They have a QC dept, and someone there gave it the nod of approval.
Does that mean it can't have a problem? Of course not.

But they're doing all they can to satisfy your misgivings by having you send it back for them to look at again.

My previous comments were more directed at the "pile on" from some others on this thread.

My experiences with Comp are in line with Jim's.
Mistakes happen from time to time, and I have always had them taken care of as well as could be expected.

In the end, it's your motor so you should do what you feel is necessary to make sure the parts going in it are up to your standards.

@Fast,

Thanks for the explanation and also for your previous technical opinion of the camshaft.

@Ski 61701,

Thank you for sharing your experience

If you're referring to me as the one "piling on", I guess I'm guilty. I know what I've seen personally and only discussed a small fraction of the issues I've seen.

Fast, I have the utmost respect for you and your skill sets. I'm not sure, but my post was never meant to be a "pile on". I just wanted to share with others that my nitrided cam did not look like the OP's cam. Did I have other problems with my cam, yes, did Comp take care of me regarding my cam, yes. Was I upset yes. I would have thought having a custom ground cam and having nitrided this would be gone over with a fine tooth comb before being sent out. The lifters on the other hand Im sure due to the volume you are going to have a few that slip by. The intent of my post is that no matter what you use in your motor you need to check it out thoroughly. If you dont you have no one to blame but ones self

If the nitrading causes the cam to be black like that, how come the bearing journals are not black

I had a crank nitrited and it was sorta dark
but all the journal were shiny.. I would have
to guess that the crank shop polished it..
that crank is in one of my SB right now

good point. I have had and seen many flat tappet cams that did not have nitrating and the lobes had the black coating. Like I said before I had just thought the coating was to prevent rust or corrosion.

they were either polished after or protected from the process. Nitriding causes a flat black surface...think like case hardened hardware. I grabbed this pic off the internet....I don't have any pics of the one I had done. look particularly at the snout.

My gut feeling is anything that can be scratched off easily is a surface coating. Like above said

Except that if that was the case Comp would have stated so after looking at the pics.

I would have to agree with this basically. I had my cam nitrided and really dont remember just how it looked but I do know most new flat tappet cams I look at seem to have a black surface on the lobes when new even if not nitrided. Myself I was told nitriding is a hardening of the cam and I really cant see that being a surface coating that could rub off. I bought my custom grind cam from Dwayne and he told me Comp did the nitriding on it. And I can tell you its been in my eng since I fired it up in June 2011 and is still going strong and has not wiped any lobes or had any problems at all. If I were you and I was worried about it I would send it back to Comp and let them look at it as even if they say its fine that will give you peace of mind. Comp is stepping up to the plate and doing what they can. And I agree with them that its tuff to tell by just pics whats going on. I feel its a surface coating like was said maybe for rust prevention because as I said I cant see a hardening process as nitriding rubbing off with your fingers. It will most likely be fine but why not send it back and let them make sure its right ? Everyone can and does make mistakes and if they did the right thing to do is step up to the plate and make sure its ok and correct it if it is not and Comp seems to be stepping up to the plate if they did make a mistake which is the best anyone can do. Ron