I love my Mopars and will never change but

Man this is hard to see

The tall deck r3 just sold on Facebook in four hours for 3400 and it's not machined!

I saw that.

If you cut me I bleed hemi orange but yes, we are thick!!!!Todd

Not many people building sbc any more.

the low price of unobtanium....

And then MoPar wonders why there blocks don't sell much.......

Yeppers thats a bitter pill there, if blocks sell on FB I need to get on FB.

Just about every dirt track car out there either has a SBC, or SBF in it. PLENTY of guys still building that platform.

I agree. My machine shop got so busy building motors for one team, he hardly had time to do any other work. The only reason he stopped building them is because they would come in with a broken motor and demand it repaired by the next weekend. They carried three spares everywhere they went. I have another good friend who builds SBC circle track track motors. He can't build them fast enough. They ran out of used 350 motors long ago.

The shop that worked on my SBF project only builds Windsor motors and currently has a backlog of over 6 months. The Dart block I used cost about the same as the one shown above, and Dart has a hard time keeping up with demand.

Ran the part number at work yesterday.... I could have bought that new at cost for $2400.... once upon a time.

Which was a reasonable price. Now the next one up for sale is asking 3600 for the same block.

I thought last year the Jeg's catalog had new LS blocks for $299

[b][/b]


And here is the reason they can be bought for less $$$$ . In the Mopar world the demands to bring down the price is not there and never will be unless people will actually start buying blocks. And I'm not talking about a few hundred or so it will take a large demand that is sustainable to get the price to drop. Most Mopar people are just ---- uhhh too frugal ---- to even create a demand

Could care less if it was FREE Mopar or no car for me............

Absolutely incorrect around here!

Every class and I mean damn near every class is going to the 604 crate. LS platform is the latest "355" dirt engine.

Even the local late model classes run them and are in many cases faster since they can actually plant the HP they make and not over powering the tires allowed to run.

Kasey, the 604 crate engine is not LS based. it is the old school small block. The 525 crate is LS but not very many running around here. My dirt car is LA powered!!!

But the 604 crate is a regular old SBC, not an LS.

Don't you shake that finger at me. LOL. I have way to much invested in MOPAR stock to switch now. 42 years and counting for me.

This man is local to me ..

I hear ya but even so, I will never drive/race another brand unless I'm gettin paid..........TRUE mopar man to the bone baby.........

I have about 45 years into Chrysler so it would be
hard for me to change.. in the beginning I was BB but
sold that stuff of and went LA... now I will go gen3
and use up the rest of my LA stuff.. I dont want to
buy a bunch of gen3 because I dont expect to live that
much longer and dont want the wife trying to figure out
what all I have when she tries to get rid of all my junk

That's my fault, I messed up there its the LS engine that they are using. Im thinking its the LS3 I get them all comfused as Im a mopar guy lol

http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet+Performa...CFQK4wAod56EJVg

Those heads alone are anywhere from $2,800-$3,300 alone...
That engine has more than 6,500 in parts..

The cost may have been 6,500 out the door but somebody started with a pile of parts not in that price...
My good motors 15 years ago were way more than that...

Heads are on jegs for right at 1600

It's all in how you buy the parts. I have 7500.00 in my 422 R3 smallblock with 360-1 heads and that includes the mopar tax we all pay.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Brodix/158/1111010/10002/-1

heads $2681
block $1650
valve covers$100
rocker arms $200
carb $200
intake $200
carb spacer $50
crank $200
rods $200
pistons $200
rings and bearings $100
cam $200
timing chain $100
push rods $100
oil pump $100
oil pan $100
oil pickup $50
water pump $50
motor plate $50
chrome water neck FREE
fuel reg(s) Free
nitrous Free
crank trigger Free
gaskets $19


I FIGURED IT OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EDIT: lifters, machine work and assembly FREE

All this is pretty simple. IF there was enough market for Mopar blocks, SOMEBODY would be making them. Be it Dart, Brodix, whoever. These companies are in the business to make money. If they thought there was enough margin and volume, they would make it, plain and simple. Yes there are companies that make Pontiac and Olds aftermarket blocks. They are made by diehards who love that brand and bought by diehards who love that brand, regardless of cost. Mopars are going to be the same way. So you can lament the fact that Chevy blocks are cheap and that somebody should be able to make a Mopar as cheap.........BUT, it isn't gonna happen until the demand gets as high, which we all KNOW is never going to happen. So you got two choices, be die hard Mopar and pay the tax, or switch.

You want mainstream prices, buy a mainstream motor. You want to be different, expect to pay for it. It doesn't matter that some Mopar heads are priced the same as X brand heads. Those are heads, not blocks and as such is not an accurate comparison. All these look alike heads are offshore. The Chinese will make anything you want. Haven't seen any cheap offshore blocks....and who would want one.

What did chevy do so right to get such a huge following? Is the horsepower potential that much greater with a chevy design?

They didn't tie the hands of the aftermarket back in the day. Mopar did this to us and hurt there own market at the same time.

Lee Iococky didn't throw all of their inventory and dies in the trash in the 70s, so you could walk into any GM dealer and still get parts...

Plus they sold more cars from the start

Its simple... look at the ratio of cars sold.. if you
buy chevy all the time you want a chevy engine(same as
mopar guys) but since they sell WAY MORE they can make
parts cheaper because they will sell more of them
EDIT
Also mopar did stupid stuff vs what chevy did.. we have
a different trans for each engine group.. chevy has ONE
they also have a big block and small block and the parts
interchange much easier.. we have 273-318-340 then a 360..
different cranks.. then a B engine and RB engine.. again
different cranks.. why not keep the mains the same and
just change strokes... nope

You guys should try turning some corners in your Mopars on a road course!
I am positive that will re-kindle any fire that is dying out!

I prefer the banked corners of a dirt oval

I think the other way, make it affordable then people WILL buy it. But if done the other way, all you guinea pigs step foward and buy them then or if the price comes down, the rest of us will buy.

Those are for BARE heads.

It's called marketing.


GM marketed the hell out of what Smokey Yunik called a relatively reliable high speed turtle.


Look at all the [censored] wrong with the SBC. The deck is too short. Pan is too narrow. Cam is too low. 23* valve angle. Smaller bore spacing. .842 lifter. Ball and stud rockers. Want me to keep going?


Every time a limitation came up, the rules were changed to fix the junk GM was peddling.

Marketing works.

Makes me sick what you can build a nasty big block chevy for. But I'm following closely what Mason (the guy claiming to reproducing the r blocks) is doing. I feel like 2-2500 would be fair for one and would gladly pay that for a brand new block, if they turnout well. He seems to be optimistic about it.


I couldn't ever do the whole chevy engine in a mopar, although I am putting a glide in it this winter.




If I were building any other brand car it would get a gen 3 hemi and a turbo, or a BBC and a couple turbos, hopefully someday.

what killed mopar is no rear wheel drive cars for years and years

This certainly didn't help.

Lee Iaccoa was hailed as a genius. He is actually far from it. He set the company back a decade or two by selling out to the government.

Too bad it doesn't work like that in the REAL world. Developing, casting and machining blocks costs X amount of dollars, regardless of the brand. So to cover your investment and make a little you have to project how many you will sell. If you think you will sell 10,000 you can price them way cheaper than if you think you will sell 1000.

If you expect to ever buy a Mopar block as cheap as a Chevy, you are living in a dream world

Isnt the ritter block coming along?

Too bad someone couldnt work with that fella since so much has been done.

You guys kill me!
Looking for a cheap block, buy the hellcat block for 1600.
I'll bet it's will take 1500 hp no problem.
G3 factory heads outperform all small block heads and most big block offerings. Need more then go thitek.
They make more power with less input!

He did what he had to do to keep the company afloat..
saved my job and I'm damn glad he did.. if he didnt
you wouldnt have to worry at all about the Chrysler
stuff you have today.. it wouldnt be here

Just curious.......every time there is a block discussion, the $2-2500 price gets thrown around. What deems that as a fair prce for a block? 15 years ago, blocks were 2-2500 new. In these times, I don't see a privateer offering a nitche' market block for that cheap. And yes, in 2016, Mopars are a nitche' market. Also, in the overall cost of a stout engine build, a $1000-1500 more for an aftermarket engine block over the 2-2500 price is small potatoes.

Hell Yea!!!

I agree with this, and there is "data" to back it up. Whats the price range on the Arrow/ MP gen 3 blocks, the HHP block, an Indy or anything else? Everything is $4-5K to start and goes up with options.

If he has good core boxes it might save him a couple bucks in tooling, but it's still not going to be cheap to get a run of blocks Cast and to market.

And if they came to Market tomorrow for $1999, mopar guys are still going to cry that a Chevy Dart block is cheaper.

Economies of Scale

Correct, and Summit has them right now. Sad.

Dam Circle-jerks. LOL

OK which head does mopar so have that's compared to them look at that price ..apple to apple..

I'm heading down to his shop in a few days to see what we can get together in mopar...but I have been thinking of switching to the other side I'm not 40yrs invested in mopar ..love my cars ..2002 ram 1500 new motor about 4 mouths ago now Trans. Is going out 1700 more dollars ..dash cracked all to sh.t..in 2003 mopar told me it was a there fault not putting uv protection in it but no recall so I need to kick out the 450 for a new dash..I'm not brand loyal but do love to race and not just watch ..

That's just not true. If Chrysler had gone through a bankruptcy, which they could have legally done, they would not have been bound to the government as to where to spend money etc.


You can glorify the guy all you want, but to me, he is a running joke. Chrysler could have been saved by normal business channels.

You must get your knowledge from "fake news" sites. First of all, Iacocca asked for (and received) loan guarantees from the government, essentially a co-signer to private loans. They were paid off early with interest to the government.

Chrysler built FWD cars because that's what both the market and the government (through free-market interference) demanded. The resources didn't exist for a modern RWD platform until the advent of the LH car.

Iacocca had the foresight to purchase Jeep (saving jobs), invest in minivans, approve the DR ('94) trucks, approved the V10 and Viper. He built a billion dollar engineering campus that is still the best in the US, if not earth.

He relied to long on K-platforms and should have made Jerry York CEO. He admits Eaton was a mistake and tried to rectify it. He was the only CEO to leave the company better than he found it since WPC.

Now go get your shinebox.

So when can we expect you to produce an affordable block? how soon will you start production? when will they ship?

LMAO...


Nicely done...


(The amount of arm-chair quarterbackin' on this 'Mopar' site never ceases to amaze...

The fact that you THINK your first sentence is a good idea proves you have no idea what you are talking about.

Bite me.

Yeah I pay lots more than my friends for parts but I'm faster than most of them
What do you do ? I was 5 years old in 1970 watching my dad race a 63 Max Wedge Plymouth and he purchased a Vit C R/T Charger in 71, destiny, MOPAR or no car.

actually the $2200 price, that was four years ago...not 20, would work just fine . Do I think it can be done in this day and age for that? probably not. I think if the blocks can get done for $3K range we'd be fortunate.

I'm good right now but I would have gladly blunked down 3000.00 for the right R block IF and only IF it was machined ready to go or close to it. I wouldn't want to have to have 1000.00 worth of machine work done to a cast iron block. That's a big reason I buy used and apart. My Keith Black block was the only one I bought new and other than my mistake of not having the block drilled for pushrod oiling it was ready to go. A friend did the needed drilling for pushrod oiling.

Did I say I was going to build the blocks? NO. But I guess Henry Ford , WPC, Dodge brothers and the rest went out and did feasibility studies on who would buy there cars and trucks before they where built. They took the CHANCE they would sell, there are no free rides in his world and these "block" manufactures want their guaranty. I would almost bet a dollar to a donut it wasn't done with the sb chevy, they just built it. What was the saying " build it and they will come" sounds good to me. Getting so tired of this find an excuse generation

I can assure you, when the subject is Lee Iacocca, Mr. Burns knows EXACTLY what he is talking about...

This isn't the 1900s or the 60-70s and the aftermarket is VERY well established in who will buy what. No excuses, only the facts

Must be winter time on moparts!

Where is that "dead horse" icon...???

There is hope for the gen3. It sucks switching over from an la, but gotta support what's available.

Damn contrary old farts...

You think what you want... I was there. all you know
is what you read in the papers.. my wife was in a
few of the meetings and I know what would have happened
to jobs like mine

Its not as bad as switching from a LA engine to a BB..
at least the SB trans fits the gen3.. thats my next set
up.. gen3

Anyone still making the cover to use a distributor?

Its not as bad as switching from a LA engine to a BB..
at least the SB trans fits the gen3.. thats my next set
up.. gen3
[/quote]
Anyone still making the cover to use a distributor? [/quote]

I dont know.. I will be injected

Ok , so what's the hold up? Are there any any aftermarket blocks left on the shelves from the last batch? Maybe the piecs of CR-ap pawned off on the unsuspecting buyer.

I'm done......

Both my cars are going up for sale in the spring. I'm tired of worrying about breaking something I can't fix due to parts unavailability every time I stick my foot in it.

After both cars go, I'm out of Ct, and of to Arizona here I'll be in the market for a Barracuda' I can turn into a stock AAR clone.

I'd like to buy a 69 Cuda... something I can actually
buy sheet metal for... everything I own I cant get
anything without searching the country for to find the
last part thats about as bad as the part I have... I'd
just like a cruiser with a nice engine.. would put a
gen3 in it with a 518 trans or a 727 and gear vendor

That will help Mr.P cause you build cars of a different interest.
Please don't take it the wrong way.

The reason I do what I do is to make the lightest car
I can and most of these little ones are good on aero
but building stuff that others dont like is the penalty
I pay.. and being odd ball there is ZERO performance parts
for the body so I have to make my own... but for a regular
street car I want something that I can buy sheet metal for

Here's a $4000 mega block available in Pa.

http://www.racingjunk.com/Engines-Components/182787711/mopar-cast-iron-mega-block.html

Best Moparts Take Down EVER !!

Not really. I guess if you think that the US is around just to save Mr Pbodys job, then you could say that.


Or, if you think it's OK to piss away 20 plus years of research into something because Iaccoa had to have a government loan because no one with a brain the size of a pea would give him any, then yes, you'd be correct.

I lived through it. I watched as a once great company was dragged down by incompetence. It should have went broke.

But evidently, Mr Pbody and some other need THAT ONE JOB.

So you can kiss the ass of a flaming communist who said so many times publically that we weren't pay enough for gasoline, that the US had to cut pay and move to junk [censored] cars to compete etc. The mustang is an overrated pile of [censored], the Pinto speaks for itself, as does the Kcar.

Love the pinko all you want. If he couldn't raise the funds privately, the company should have folded.

You sure dont know crap about what happened then..
but what you read MUST have been true.. yes it got
a LOAN that we paid back early with interest.. if
he went bankrupt all union contracts would have been
thrown out 1000s of jobs would have been on the un-
employment line which the country couldnt handle..
so yeah... you think you know it all... BS.. but keep
thinking you do

Yep, I would have put you out of work.

Why didn't any private investors put up the money?

It's not the governments job to bail out [censored] businesses.

I know conceptually you have no idea what I'm talking about. Maybe you should read The Creature From Jekyll Island? Maybe that would help you get it. There are other resources but you could start there.

Never mind.. you would rather put a 100,000 people
out of work.. your not worth my time

WRONG. Don't be so myopic.

Maybe you should do a bit of research before popping off at the mouth, claiming I get my news from some unreliable source.

Do your own homework.

Like the rest of the country, you have a little pain now instead of fixing the issue at the time.

It doesn't even matter that the loans were paid back, with interest, ahead of schedule. Has zero to do with it.

Piss poor businesses SHOULD fail. By your reckoning, we should have bailed out Solendra with more money. I could name 20 other corporations or more who should be broke and gone, yet they are still on the tit again.

Did you forget 2008? Oh wait, you had YOUR money by then.

Nice twist to turn this on me when you don't like FACTS about your boy Lee Iacocca. And the [censored] deal the tax payers took to bail out a [censored] company.

The Tax Payers did not loan a penny.....the government just Guaranteed the loans....NOW, go back to your shinebox

Same [censored] dude. The money came came somewhere and it WASNT from investors.

It's easy to see why the country is so screwed up today. You're talking [censored] you don't even understand.

This thread is done....