Time to change some rotating parts

I have my old stock block I started with that needs parts for n/a,mild boost on the street so I got new stuff for the race block.I have been using wiseco so I will have them make a custom full dish set to replace the flat tops.I got Callies procomp rods and a new Eagle crank that will need another keyway and balanced once I get the pistons.

Sounds like a solid platform

No to the full dish, use a D-shaped dish or reverse dome so if you now or later use a head with a squish area it can work.

www.theoldone.com Somewhere in there he talks about using a supercharger on an 11.3:1 engine, something like that. If you have good combustion chamber dynamics, the engine's octane requirements go down.

R.

A full dish works great with my friends LS turbo,I have Edl victor heads now.

I also had good luck with my open chamber 95cc iron heads that to the piston was .200"

Not a lover of Eagle products but I wish you luck.

Is there a technical point to your opinion?

Eagle is one of two companies that I have had bad experiences with quality wise on engines (assemblies) that I have assembled for myself and Friends. As with all race products check to over carefully which includes testing the convertor hub in the back of the crank and taper.

Sounds like good info thanks.

The vert is very loose in the crank.I test fit the rods on the crank as a quick check and I will order pistons tomorrow.The engine shop will do final check,balance.I used some gear 140 oil on the rod check here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHHTBMBr58c

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If your starting from scratch and you can get the comp low enough where you want it, absolutely the reverse dome or the D dish.

Sure the full dish works, but the other has been proven to work so much better. Better more efficient combustion chamber, less chance of detonation, more HP etc. So why wouldn't you? Do it, IMO, it cant be that much more expensive.

I did not see that info about a boosted engine and what you say seems a bit exaggerated to me.Maybe in a n/a.

Don't take it personally I had good results with a big chamber.

Its definitely not going to hurt you. You may benefit the most from the more resistance to detonation. Boosted engines can use all the help they can in that department, as boost is already heating up the mixture to begin with increasing the earlier onset of detonation.

I wouldn't just flat rule out the reverse dome or D dish until you look into it a little more.


Also what kind of supercharger do you have. Some are a lot worse then others for producing heat. I think the Eaton type have been nicknamed by some Heaters, for the excess heat they produce.

The whipple superchargers have a design where the compressors blow straight down though into the intake vs The Eatons forcing the air out and around the the inside of the blowers body taking a longer sharper turning path of the charge creating more heat.

I have an A/W intercooler.

That's good about the cooler. Saw some of your prior posts.

1. Your flat tops did show some signs of detonation from the pics and in your own words. Good move on getting the new intercooler vs your other intercooler.

2. Saw you had a smoking deal on some Diamonds?? I guess your not going to use them, because your going to order Custom pistons tomorrow, stated in this post???.

If your getting a deal on some dish diamonds use them you will be fine, you can make power with boost with pistons .300 down the hole.

But if you really are going to pull the trigger tomorrow on some Custom pistons, Id go with the D,s with quench, hands down.

But, it will run too with a dish. But The benefits of Quench and a efficient combustion chamber doesn't care if the motor is Boosted or NA.

I hope you don't take this personal, either, I don't. I hope I didn't say to much.

The outer ring of the dish will be .075 from the head and the base of the dish .200 and I am getting my pistons from wiseco just 35 miles away.The piston will be the same from what I have just a dish will be the only change.Thank you for explaining your reasoning on quench.I will let you know how things workout.

another option is to angle cut the dish on 1/2 the dish like softening the chamber but on the piston.I read that a 7* works good.

If your ordering custom pistons I'd have them build the best thing they have. They should coat them on the top after they soften them..

So its a basically a D Dish with the flat quench part on a 7* down angle till it meets the full dish?? That sounds ok to me.

Wiseco can do amazing things with there piston design abilities.

From the pics on their website, they can machine any shape piston top you desire.

I had a sit down with Vic Ellinger and ended up with just a full dish 16.69cc dish for 9/1cr,This es very close to there shelf 15cc dish but sized for a 4.351 bore[cleaned cylinders]3wks for delivery.1k$+ with pins,locks.

The pins are S797 .225 or .250 thick.[I forget]

Can you share the Technical points of his/your decision from this sit down ?

The .060 gasket and .015 below deck took any quench piston off the table and most of the other talk was on fuel wash and piston expansion.

This topic may bring some insight.
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=636810

Here is my printed piston order form and it is far from what is linked in there site.

Hello There,

Mike and I had an enjoyable conversation about his car and his new build. I remember the car well over the years and it's neat to be able to help him on this new project.

The thing to keep in mind with this type of build is that you want soft, "dumbed down" chambers and pistons. Today's 18* BBC heads are available in NA and Nitrous versions because of what has been learned in the past 10 years at cylinder head companies. We have plenty of help with "swirl" with the blower on top of this type of engine. You don't want to have to "fight" nitrous or boost's extremely high cylinder pressures plus "quench" when it comes to this level of power. This car is also very heavy. You have to treat this like a tractor pull or top dragster type build. This will build heat in a hurry when the hammer is dropped.

Thick decks and skirts are key to keeping the ring grooves stable to allow the rings to do their job. If the part is flexing like a trampoline, then it doesn't matter if you have a set of $2800 P/S rings in the engine, it won't seal. Another key factor is pin strength, everyone likes to run their parts/components light, but if the pin flexes then that will cause the piston to flex as well. This leads to cracked pin bosses or decks, as well as pin galling.

The dish typically we like to start .250-.300 from the edge, this allows plenty of meat for the ring radial depths of the groove to have support. It also create stability in ring groove flatness and finish when they are cut. Tapered ring lands allow the piston to grow up top, as well as some tricks on camming and skirt profiles to prevent scuffing on the skirt.

Piston to wall clearance for forced induction can be as loose as .012, ring end gap as wide as .090-.100, and pin bore clearance set at .002-.0025", again you are compensating for the extremes when you are wide open. We go back and forth with guys wanting tighter piston to wall to prevent piston noise cold, yet want 2000hp to the flywheel. It's a trade off, just like the suspension for cruising vs. racing. Rarely is there a compromise.....

Wow Vic thanks for stopping in!I appreciate the info.

Any more questions?Not even a thank you for his info from you!

No problem Bud, glad we can help!

Yes thank you vic i cut and pasted this info in my nootpad for future reference. Also thanks Clanton for the yellowbullet link as that opened my eyes and im glad i havent bought headgaskets for my boosted build.

I got my pistons today so I can get things balanced,installed.

Sweet keep us posted...... I final got off my dead a@$ and started putting some work in the garage.

Um that is the same pic you posted 4 wks ago.;)

While I was waiting for pistons I got the trans refreshed.

I believe your mistaken the pic in my signature was just taking last friday
In the last month
1.got the turbos mounted and started to plump them in
2.got the powerglide installed
3.finished gasket matching my indy intake
4.motor plate brackets welded in
5.got the block to the machine shop for final hone

This is me getting off my dead a@$ all while sweating my balls off 60 hours week in a steel mill

We all have our own limitations so Great job.
Thanks Vic Ellinger and John Cope for getting things done for me!!

Love the sharp edges on the domes...

Nothing is sharp so IDK what you are looking at.

Here is my install tool that works awesome giving me the most room to push the piston in with the rings closed all the way.

I did have a problem getting the 1/4" keyway put in Victory engines cut the groove 1/2" under the timing gear and when I said I had some criticism about it he said he did not take this very well and that was that.

Here is the bob weights,He had to add 2 pieces of mallory to balance it.

Mike that transmission looks fugly good thing you are getting is done.

Gus

Ya I don't know how that happened but I am moving on plugging away at it.