Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! PICS added

Posted By: aarcuda

Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! PICS added - 02/02/09 03:33 PM

So my car was kind of clackity. been that way for a few months. maybe even since the last time i adjusted the valves back in august or so. who knows. its was a while ago. I just remember always wondering about the clack. especially on the 100 mile drive to the track last summer and in the fall.

So yesterday i go and check the lash. (this is on my 416 sb btw). it has the stock TA rockers that were rebuilt and bushed by RAS and the heavy duty banana groove shafts from RAS

ALL of the intakes on the passenger side are at about .040 (between .038 and .042). the exhausts were all good at about .020-.023. the intakes on the drivers side were good excpt for 1 which was also out iirc (my numbers are back at the shop)

I was supposed to have adjusted the intakes to .018.

Sooooo, Did I just screw up and have the feeler gauge doubled up (a .018 and a /019 stuck together)?

Are my adjusters loosening? the number of threads showing on the TOP of the rockers (above the adjusters lock nut) were about 3 threads (I have pics I can post tonight) whereas the numbers of threads shown on the tops of the rockers that were close to right (around .020) were none on the exhaust and about 1 on the intakes). the lock nuts were all tight.

or is my cam dying?

Im thinking I just screwed up and just adjusted them wrong. I remember it was about 100 degrees out the day I adjusted them and I was sticky and sweaty and irritated because of the heat.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! - 02/02/09 03:40 PM

No real way of telling at this time, unless you
feel like pulling the intake. Adjust them again and
watch them for a bit and see if they loosen up,
hopefully you just messed up last time.
Also if you feel like it you could cut open the oil
filter for a look see

Posted By: aarcuda

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! - 02/02/09 03:47 PM

well i admit I got paranoid several months ago and yanks every lifter thru the head and inspected them and they were looking fine. no concaved bottoms. typical rub marks and swirlies (although not all of them had the swirlies on them.

I guess i could pull the rocker gear and yank those intake lifters again... why not. Ive got some time

Posted By: Twostick

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! - 02/02/09 04:29 PM

If the jam nuts were still tight, chances are you just messed up on the adjustment.

Kevin

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! - 02/02/09 05:34 PM

Quote:

If the jam nuts were still tight, chances are you just messed up on the adjustment.

Kevin

The other, easy way to see if the cam is dying is to cut the oil filter open and inspect every pleat. Usually when the cam is dying it is one or two lobes and as they get worn off they get louder and metal gets toss up into the valve cover area of the heads where you can see it or at least pick it up with a small pocket magnet

The other thing is where your adjusting the lash in relation to the bottom of the cam, small blocks with tight LSA are more sensitive to lash adjustment procedures than motors with wide LSA

Let us know what you find out

Posted By: dvw

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! - 02/02/09 05:53 PM

No way it wore the intake cam lobes only,and exactly .038"-.042". My bet is that during lash the intake lobes were not positioned at the base circle of the cam when lashed.
Doug

Posted By: aarcuda

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! - 02/02/09 06:24 PM

Quote:

No way it wore the intake cam lobes only,and exactly .038"-.042". My bet is that during lash the intake lobes were not positioned at the base circle of the cam when lashed.
Doug

entirely possible. My lsa is 108 and i adjust them by popping the starter to intake closing- adjust exhaust. exhaust opneing- adjust intake. so im never on exact same place. Maybe I need to do the rotate 90 method..... It just such a pita with the 1/2" drive socket and ratchet down there and doing it from the top.

how do you all turn your motors over? from the top or the bottom? (I guess most of you all dont have a big honkin clutch fan in the way like I do)

Posted By: 69charger440_6pa

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! - 02/02/09 09:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

No way it wore the intake cam lobes only,and exactly .038"-.042". My bet is that during lash the intake lobes were not positioned at the base circle of the cam when lashed.
Doug

entirely possible. My lsa is 198 and i adjust them by popping the starter to intake closing- adjust exhaust. exhaust opneing- adjust intake. so im never on exact same place. Maybe I need to do the rotate 90 method..... It just such a pita with the 1/2" drive socket and ratchet down there and doing it from the top.

how do you all turn your motors over? from the top or the bottom? (I guess most of you all dont have a big honkin clutch fan in the way like I do)

well if that is the way you adjusted it it is very possible you were not on the bottom of the lobe. Do the 90* method. I usually turn the motor over from the bottom because for me it is easier. See what works for you.

Posted By: RonP

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! - 02/02/09 09:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

No way it wore the intake cam lobes only,and exactly .038"-.042". My bet is that during lash the intake lobes were not positioned at the base circle of the cam when lashed.
Doug

entirely possible. My lsa is 198 and i adjust them by popping the starter to intake closing- adjust exhaust. exhaust opneing- adjust intake. so im never on exact same place. Maybe I need to do the rotate 90 method..... It just such a pita with the 1/2" drive socket and ratchet down there and doing it from the top.

how do you all turn your motors over? from the top or the bottom? (I guess most of you all dont have a big honkin clutch fan in the way like I do)

well if that is the way you adjusted it it is very possible you were not on the bottom of the lobe. Do the 90* method. I usually turn the motor over from the bottom because for me it is easier. See what works for you.

I could be wrong and I probably am, but isn't the 90Degree method the least accurate when it comes to these performance cams. I know on my last couple using the 90degree was way off. The last two cam profiles I had I was adjusting the intake when the exhaust just opened and I adjust the exhaust when the intake goes fully open and just starts to close.

Posted By: dvw

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! - 02/02/09 09:26 PM

I bump the starter at the relay. My race cars are wired in with a button. Wire between the large stud of the relay and the terminal at the yellow wire at the relay. This way the engine won't crank unless its in park or nuetral. Start at #1 in the firing order. Set the intake just as the exhaust opens. Set the exhaust when the intake is just closed. some cams will like the exhaust set slightly sooner such as 3/4 of the way closed. It depends on the ramps. try it both ways to see if there is a change. After a few trys of "bumping the button you will get the feel for it. If you miss just crank it back around.
Doug

Posted By: aarcuda

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! - 02/03/09 01:11 AM

check out the difference in the amount of screw thread showing between an intake and exhaust...

Attached picture 4995921-SDC10276.JPG

Posted By: Hyper Henry

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! - 02/03/09 01:32 AM

This may seem dumb but pull some of the adjusing screws out of the rockers and check the balls and see if they are all the same. Thought I had a cam going last summer and started to tear in down at the track and happned to notice the balls on the ends of the adjusting screws were wearing real bad on some of them.

I was running Cranes at the time and happened to have some spares with me so I was back up and running for last time trial

Derrick

Posted By: 69charger440_6pa

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! - 02/03/09 01:52 AM

Looking at the pic it is possible that you doubled up the feeler gauge like you suggested. I would set the lash again and go from there

Posted By: dartman366

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! - 02/03/09 02:06 AM

What Hyper Henry said is quite possible cause it happened to me once with a set of Harlan Sharp's that had a set of adjuster's that were heat treated wrong, and the balls on the adjuster's looked like footballs, couldent figure why I kept loosing adjustment.

Posted By: aarcuda

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! - 02/03/09 02:22 AM

Quote:

This may seem dumb but pull some of the adjusing screws out of the rockers and check the balls and see if they are all the same. Thought I had a cam going last summer and started to tear in down at the track and happned to notice the balls on the ends of the adjusting screws were wearing real bad on some of them. I was running Cranes at the time and happened to have some spares with me so I was back up and running for last time trial

Derrick

I will check them for sure.

I recall RAS telling me they replaced some of my adjusters when they rebuilt them. not saying these are the replaced ones or the originals but heck, anything is better than a flat cam. even a doubled feeler cluster muck

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! - 02/03/09 02:32 PM

Quote:

check out the difference in the amount of screw thread showing between an intake and exhaust...

steve , when checking screw length difference the important thread count is the screw threads showing on the PUSHROD side , you want no more than 3 on the bottom side .

Posted By: aarcuda

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! - 02/03/09 03:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

check out the difference in the amount of screw thread showing between an intake and exhaust...

steve , when checking screw length difference the important thread count is the screw threads showing on the PUSHROD side , you want no more than 3 on the bottom side .

ya I know that and Im good on that. I put the picture up to show how i may have screwed up the adjustment of those intakes. They have more thread showing than the exhausts by a few threads- ie, they are looser

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Rockers were loose. uh oh or DOH! - 02/03/09 03:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

check out the difference in the amount of screw thread showing between an intake and exhaust...

steve , when checking screw length difference the important thread count is the screw threads showing on the PUSHROD side , you want no more than 3 on the bottom side .

ya I know that and Im good on that. I put the picture up to show how i may have screwed up the adjustment of those intakes. They have more thread showing than the exhausts by a few threads- ie, they are looser

I believe you just messed up when adjusting the lash,
like you show the intakes are showing more threads ON TOP....
re-set the lash and have fun beating on it