Moparts - Monte Smith Official Power Adder Thread - 02/28/1606:47 PM
Ok fellas. Lets try this as one thread for the time being. Post all of your turbo,nitrous, super charger,octane booster(JK) questions and stuff here. Thanks!! Ted
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 02/29/1604:15 PM
Well then.My 1st question is,,,what is the max intake manifold air temp before no gain will be realized.So far I have seen 205* in the intake.This is a Roots set up,wonder if it's different for turbo.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 02/29/1604:43 PM
Im putting together a 470 low deck 4.375 bore with a set of TT ill be running E85 what are you guys running or your recommendations for piston rings? Compression ratio of 9.5 and boost levels between 10 and 15 psi.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 02/29/1604:52 PM
I'm getting ready to dyno tune my new 511" low deck this week or next. A few questions:
1) Should I use an inline nitrous filter?
2) Plug gap?
3) How do I purge the fuel solenoid? Through the engine with the bottle turned off?
4) At what RPM should I hit it on the dyno? 5k?
5) The designed max RPM on this combo is 7500. How high should we let it go with the nitrous? Don't worry about my stock block I had it blessed by a holy man.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 02/29/1605:53 PM
Originally Posted By Jeremiah
I'm getting ready to dyno tune my new 511" low deck this week or next. A few questions:
1) Should I use an inline nitrous filter?
2) Plug gap?
3) How do I purge the fuel solenoid? Through the engine with the bottle turned off?
4) At what RPM should I hit it on the dyno? 5k?
5) The designed max RPM on this combo is 7500. How high should we let it go with the nitrous? Don't worry about my stock block I had it blessed by a holy man.
You nitrous solenoids should have filters, if you bought a kit. Do you fill your own bottles, or have them filled. Most guys who fill use a filter in the fill line to avoid possible contamination in mother bottle. So if this is done no need for an in car filter......But, if won't hurt to run an inline filter.
Plug gap .020-.025
You shouldn't need to purge the fuel solenoid, but if you feel you need to, turn the pump on, crack the line and then retighten. Without engine running of course.
4500-5000 will be fine on activation rpm. If you plan to turn the motor to 7500, that's where you should go
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/01/1612:06 AM
Thank you for the info Monte. Should I run the engine on pump gas a nitrous fuel supply on c12 or both on c12? I have been dreaming up a slick partitioned fuel cell that would allow two fuel types.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/01/1603:20 PM
Jeremiah...what I've been doing w/ mine is running it on straight C12 when I spray it. I do trailer my car to the track, so I drain the pump 93 out and refill w/ C12 at home. My motor is around 11:1 and I'm spraying about 250 on it. I didn't want the hassle of 2 fuel systems...I did that several years ago w/ this car and it worked ok, I just wanted to keep it simple this time. One big pump and a bunch of regulators, lol.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/01/1605:42 PM
I've never sprayed on pump gas. Not worth the chance of hurting something to me. It is a pain in the rear to drain the tank and make the switch before going to the track every time, but it is what it is.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/01/1609:13 PM
Turbo Guys: Ever give any thought to an electric WG actuator?
I guess the way most handle it now are with compressed air and electronic boost controllers.
Many OEMs are going to electric actuators for WG control, as it allows more flexibility (i.e. opening WG at part throttle for increased fuel economy).
While we are not interested in fuel consumption, the flexibility this could offer might be interesting, during staging, etc. I can't help but look at the actuator on my desk and think about adapting it to an external WG.
I guess no sense in reinventing the wheel, but just thinking out loud...
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/02/1612:35 AM
Nitrous question.
My car runs 10.45 to 10.50 N/A. The BO time in the class I run is 10.10sec, so need to gain about a 1/2 second. It´s not allot, but its still about two car lengths at the finish line, so.. I don´t know if I´ll be able to gain the needed 1/2 second just with chassies tuning (Cal-Tracks, AFCO DA shocks front/rear) and going with a taller slick tire. I ran with a 29.3" diam. Hoosier QTP tire, going 30x9" Hoosier slicks this season. 60ft times kinda suck, got the 60ft down to 1.51sec, but haven´t been able to get the car off the line with out tire spin. I hope with real slicks and some chassies adjustments I´ll be able to get the 60ft times down around 1.45sec. (Hope it would run a 60ft under 1.45sec.)
I don´t think I´d need much nitrous assistance, something like 75hp shot should get me where I need to be?
..any ways, to my questions...
1. Do I need to run higher octane fuel if only adding some 75hp of nitrous? (The engine has 10.8:1 comp. I run on 98oct. pump fuel, don´t know what´s similar in the Usa.)
2. Should I run a separate fuel system or would I be able to run a 75 to 100hp shot with 98oct fuel, just by adding a second regulator for the nitrous fuel feed? (Run a Magnafuel 275 pump)
3. How critical is the carb tune before adding nitrous? Right now the carb (1050 cmf Dominator) runs on the fat side. At full throttle the A/F is around 10.4.
4. How much timing needs to be pulled if adding 75hp shot of nitrous?
5. Should I forget about the whole nitrous deal and just focus on getting the car off the line and get the carb tune better...
-Sorry if my quesions seem dumb, but Im new to nitrous so... I´ll probably have more questions later...
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/02/1601:02 AM
I am in the same boat as TomsCharger70. I run 6.20's in the 1/8 and I need to pick up around 2-3 tenths to run in my local 6.0 heads up class. I was thinking around trying the same amount of NOS as him. I am also on pump gas but 93 octane. I need the same info as him.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/02/1602:10 AM
Originally Posted By Gary Robbins
You guys spraying a pump gas engine do you ever spray with 93 pump gas or are you always changing out fuels for the track...Smallblock at 9.5 comp !!
Gary my sons magnum 360 (all stock except for camshaft and carb intake) runs fastest on plain pump 93. I proved it to him we swapped out 110 race gas and it picked up almost .2 in the quarter mile.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/02/1604:20 AM
I was spraying a 200 shot on a 408 small block magnum with 10.2:1 compression and 93 octane, drove it to the track running 5.80-5.90 all day and then drove it home.(1/8 mile times)
Got Eddie Miller building a 410" small block magnum with 11.5:1 compression and will also be spraying a 200 shot on 93 octane in the near future.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/02/1604:22 AM
Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
Originally Posted By Jeremiah
I'm getting ready to dyno tune my new 511" low deck this week or next. A few questions:
1) Should I use an inline nitrous filter?
2) Plug gap?
3) How do I purge the fuel solenoid? Through the engine with the bottle turned off?
4) At what RPM should I hit it on the dyno? 5k?
5) The designed max RPM on this combo is 7500. How high should we let it go with the nitrous? Don't worry about my stock block I had it blessed by a holy man.
You nitrous solenoids should have filters, if you bought a kit. Do you fill your own bottles, or have them filled. Most guys who fill use a filter in the fill line to avoid possible contamination in mother bottle. So if this is done no need for an in car filter......But, if won't hurt to run an inline filter.
Plug gap .020-.025
You shouldn't need to purge the fuel solenoid, but if you feel you need to, turn the pump on, crack the line and then retighten. Without engine running of course.
4500-5000 will be fine on activation rpm. If you plan to turn the motor to 7500, that's where you should go
I agree, but I'm running that Wilson pro flow bottle nut that is shaped like a cone and has the filter in side it. I also run my plug gap at .030" on a single 200 shot and 93 octane but I pull out about 9* of timing too.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/02/1602:31 PM
Originally Posted By OUTLAWD
Turbo Guys: Ever give any thought to an electric WG actuator?
I guess the way most handle it now are with compressed air and electronic boost controllers.
Many OEMs are going to electric actuators for WG control, as it allows more flexibility (i.e. opening WG at part throttle for increased fuel economy).
While we are not interested in fuel consumption, the flexibility this could offer might be interesting, during staging, etc. I can't help but look at the actuator on my desk and think about adapting it to an external WG.
I guess no sense in reinventing the wheel, but just thinking out loud...
I use the ams500 with CO2 it only has two stages one is for launch and the other is for normal abuse and kicks in when stage one is no longer in use (brake pedal,and toggle switch wired in series controlled for stage 1) stage 2 is controlled using carb hat boost ref) Once i get the new combo installed ill control stage one off the transbrake. Aaron
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/02/1606:50 PM
Originally Posted By TomsCharger70
Nitrous question.
My car runs 10.45 to 10.50 N/A. The BO time in the class I run is 10.10sec, so need to gain about a 1/2 second. It´s not allot, but its still about two car lengths at the finish line, so.. I don´t know if I´ll be able to gain the needed 1/2 second just with chassies tuning (Cal-Tracks, AFCO DA shocks front/rear) and going with a taller slick tire. I ran with a 29.3" diam. Hoosier QTP tire, going 30x9" Hoosier slicks this season. 60ft times kinda suck, got the 60ft down to 1.51sec, but haven´t been able to get the car off the line with out tire spin. I hope with real slicks and some chassies adjustments I´ll be able to get the 60ft times down around 1.45sec. (Hope it would run a 60ft under 1.45sec.)
I don´t think I´d need much nitrous assistance, something like 75hp shot should get me where I need to be?
..any ways, to my questions...
1. Do I need to run higher octane fuel if only adding some 75hp of nitrous? (The engine has 10.8:1 comp. I run on 98oct. pump fuel, don´t know what´s similar in the Usa.)
2. Should I run a separate fuel system or would I be able to run a 75 to 100hp shot with 98oct fuel, just by adding a second regulator for the nitrous fuel feed? (Run a Magnafuel 275 pump)
3. How critical is the carb tune before adding nitrous? Right now the carb (1050 cmf Dominator) runs on the fat side. At full throttle the A/F is around 10.4.
4. How much timing needs to be pulled if adding 75hp shot of nitrous?
5. Should I forget about the whole nitrous deal and just focus on getting the car off the line and get the carb tune better...
-Sorry if my quesions seem dumb, but Im new to nitrous so... I´ll probably have more questions later...
Thanks! /Tom
You need to forget about nitrous until you fix THIS
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/02/1606:55 PM
Nitrous doesn't care what octane rating the fuel is. At the Pump Gas Drags, we ran a 600" motor on two foggers on pump gas and went low 8s on a very light tune up. The TIMING is what matters. The lower the fuel octane, the lower the timing you run.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/02/1607:00 PM
Originally Posted By D-50
I am in the same boat as TomsCharger70. I run 6.20's in the 1/8 and I need to pick up around 2-3 tenths to run in my local 6.0 heads up class. I was thinking around trying the same amount of NOS as him. I am also on pump gas but 93 octane. I need the same info as him.
Don't worry about putting "just enough" nitrous on it to run the number. Put a 150 shot on it and then leave on it and shut it off.......or leave on motor and then turn spray on and run hard at the stripe.
Just as an example, a customer has a Nova with a mild smallblock in it. Runs 7.teens on motor. We turn a 150 hit on at 3 tenths out and it goes 5.70s. Turn it on at 4 tenths out, it goes 6.00s.
Have another customer who does the opposite. Guys catch him early.....THEN his nitrous comes on and they can't run him back down.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/02/1608:05 PM
Monte...are some combos just THAT much more nitrous friendly? I mean my car will go 6.teens on motor most of the time, but goes 5.70s w/ a 250 hit on at 3 tenths out. Yet your customers car goes from 7.teens to 5.70s on a 150 hit. I know I have a long way to go w/ my car, but seeing results like this make me wonder what I'm doing, lol. Or is this yet another result of running a nearly 2 ton car?
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/02/1610:46 PM
Thanks Monte!
In just a few well-chosen words you clarified at least 2 'Cause & Effect' elements (ignition lead/octane and Timing the duration of the hit for tuning vs trying to pinpoint the precise amount of the hit) of using spray that I didn't completely have my head around...that's awesome!
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/02/1611:20 PM
Here is another question about nitrous I have been thinking about. Might sound dumb, but I just can´t get myhead around on how it works..
So... When you add nitrous, you also have to lower the engines timing. Ok, so this is what Im having trouble understanding.
Lets say you take out 6 degrees of timing from a N/A engine, that would lower the engines horsepower by X amount. So lets say lowering the timing by 6 degres lowers the engines horsepower output by 100hp. So if you add 150hp of nitrous, wouldnt that just give you an added 50hp???
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/03/1601:16 AM
Originally Posted By TomsCharger70
Here is another question about nitrous I have been thinking about. Might sound dumb, but I just can´t get myhead around on how it works..
So... When you add nitrous, you also have to lower the engines timing. Ok, so this is what Im having trouble understanding.
Lets say you take out 6 degrees of timing from a N/A engine, that would lower the engines horsepower by X amount. So lets say lowering the timing by 6 degres lowers the engines horsepower output by 100hp. So if you add 150hp of nitrous, wouldnt that just give you an added 50hp???
How does this work?
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question.
/Tom
Nitrous speeds up the burn .. That simple. Some engines need more retard because of the quench, cam etc. retard slows the burn rate, im sure Monte will have a better explanation , more detailed
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/03/1603:20 AM
Nitrous drastically increases the efficiency of the motor, by creating a quicker and cleaner burn. The quicker and cleaner the burn, the less spark lead the motor needs. No different than a motor with poor heads needing 40* of timing to run hard and when you put a better head on it, then it only needs 32* to run hard. You have made the motor more efficient. Timing does NOT make power. Timing is only when you light the fire in the hole in an attempt to have a complete burn by about 15* ATDC. When you think about it, advanced timing is fighting what you are trying to do. The sooner you light it, the more the motor has to overcome in the increasing cylinder pressure of lighting the fire early. In a perfect world, the closer to TDC you could light the fire and burn it completely by 15 after, the more power you could make by freeing the motor up. Unfortunately engines are just not THAT efficient yet. I don't put timing in until it slows down and run the max I can. I pull timing OUT until it slows down. If it runs the same at 36* as it does at 40*, the latter is doing you no good and only increases your chances of pre-ignition.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/03/1603:32 AM
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Monte...are some combos just THAT much more nitrous friendly? I mean my car will go 6.teens on motor most of the time, but goes 5.70s w/ a 250 hit on at 3 tenths out. Yet your customers car goes from 7.teens to 5.70s on a 150 hit. I know I have a long way to go w/ my car, but seeing results like this make me wonder what I'm doing, lol. Or is this yet another result of running a nearly 2 ton car?
Could be several things. The smallblock is probably overcammed and has too much head to be an efficient N/A combo, for the given compression and other things. Converter is also probably a little tight. The small shot helps the efficiency of the motor and well as helps the converter on shift recovery.
In your case, I would think a 250 shot should pick you up more than 3 tenths. The converter may be a little loose. What does it fall back to on the shift on the motor and on the hose? If on the spray the drop really tightens, you probably need more stator. It could also be that the motor is fairly efficient as is and the nitrous is just not helping a lot because of cam, exhaust, whatever. HEMIs can be tough on spray. It could be that it just needs a lot more to really run....or the cam has too much overlap and is just putting the charge out the pipes. Hard to say. Look into converter question first.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/03/1603:56 AM
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Monte...are some combos just THAT much more nitrous friendly? I mean my car will go 6.teens on motor most of the time, but goes 5.70s w/ a 250 hit on at 3 tenths out. Yet your customers car goes from 7.teens to 5.70s on a 150 hit. I know I have a long way to go w/ my car, but seeing results like this make me wonder what I'm doing, lol. Or is this yet another result of running a nearly 2 ton car?
Get rid of the .3 delay. Hit it from the get go and I bet it's a lot quicker .
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/03/1601:46 PM
Originally Posted By n20mstr
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Monte...are some combos just THAT much more nitrous friendly? I mean my car will go 6.teens on motor most of the time, but goes 5.70s w/ a 250 hit on at 3 tenths out. Yet your customers car goes from 7.teens to 5.70s on a 150 hit. I know I have a long way to go w/ my car, but seeing results like this make me wonder what I'm doing, lol. Or is this yet another result of running a nearly 2 ton car?
Get rid of the .3 delay. Hit it from the get go and I bet it's a lot quicker .
agree my junk goes 1.34 60 ft on a 275 radial hitting it straight out of the hole on the bottle sb 408 ,you may need good shocks
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/03/1604:38 PM
Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Monte...are some combos just THAT much more nitrous friendly? I mean my car will go 6.teens on motor most of the time, but goes 5.70s w/ a 250 hit on at 3 tenths out. Yet your customers car goes from 7.teens to 5.70s on a 150 hit. I know I have a long way to go w/ my car, but seeing results like this make me wonder what I'm doing, lol. Or is this yet another result of running a nearly 2 ton car?
Could be several things. The smallblock is probably overcammed and has too much head to be an efficient N/A combo, for the given compression and other things. Converter is also probably a little tight. The small shot helps the efficiency of the motor and well as helps the converter on shift recovery.
In your case, I would think a 250 shot should pick you up more than 3 tenths. The converter may be a little loose. What does it fall back to on the shift on the motor and on the hose? If on the spray the drop really tightens, you probably need more stator. It could also be that the motor is fairly efficient as is and the nitrous is just not helping a lot because of cam, exhaust, whatever. HEMIs can be tough on spray. It could be that it just needs a lot more to really run....or the cam has too much overlap and is just putting the charge out the pipes. Hard to say. Look into converter question first.
How much mph does it pick up on spray?
Not sure on the rpm drop at the shift...will find out next time out for sure. It gains about 9 mph in the 1/8 and about 10 mph in the 1/4 when compared to it's best ever N/A pass w/ the tighter converter. The "nitrous" converter only slowed the car down about a tenth in the 1/4.
Doesn't seem to run as hard up top as it should. Was running the little -4 feed line last year, put -6 on it last week...thinking maybe that was a restriction. Bottle is in the trunk, so there's 14 feet of feed line.
NOS doublecross plate jetted 65x2 N, 53x2 F, 6 psi fuel, 23° timing, C12 fuel. Have not even begun to tune it from this baseline.
Have not gotten more aggressive than a 3 tenth delay on the hit due to wheelstand issues. Last time out I got a better handle on the shocks and kept it on the ground. shift at 6800-6900, cross the stripe at 7400. 4.10 gear, 295-65 radial 1.31 sixty foot w/ back tires 3.692 330' 5.710 1/8 121.6 mph 8.955 1/4 149.7 mph
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/05/1612:12 AM
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Monte...are some combos just THAT much more nitrous friendly? I mean my car will go 6.teens on motor most of the time, but goes 5.70s w/ a 250 hit on at 3 tenths out. Yet your customers car goes from 7.teens to 5.70s on a 150 hit. I know I have a long way to go w/ my car, but seeing results like this make me wonder what I'm doing, lol. Or is this yet another result of running a nearly 2 ton car?
what is your engine combo and are you running the 1/8 mostly? maybe Monte can tell us a about the customers combo ? so we can compare the two
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/05/1601:48 AM
Originally Posted By n20mstr
NOS doublecross plate jetted 65x2 N, 53x2 F, 6 psi fuel, 23° timing, C12 fuel. Have not even begun to tune it from this baseline.
start leaning it out, drop the fuel psi and timing . then watch it pick up some mph
That's really a little shy of 250Hp and is probably a good bit on the rich side of a razor sharp tune. Has some left assuming converter is right.
If getting it on quicker forces the car to pick the front up, you actually need to get after it MUCH harder, as well as putting some weight on the nose
As far as comparing to car I referenced, there is no comparison. We have a very heavy big inch HEMI, against a 3000lb mediocre small block Nova.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/06/1607:25 AM
is there a way to split these up into separate groups. I love any and all power adders. but I'm not so smart. would love to keep each adder separate just to keep it a little simpler. there is definitely enough interest, can somebody help make this right????
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/07/1603:47 PM
Originally Posted By 72sat
is there a way to split these up into separate groups. I love any and all power adders. but I'm not so smart. would love to keep each adder separate just to keep it a little simpler. there is definitely enough interest, can somebody help make this right????
This website can't support 1 power adder sticky and will probably go away. Ted was nice enough to give it a try but with only 1600 hits so far it will probably go away. Hits mean traffic, traffic means advertising dollars to help support the site. I think some guys would be surprised to see the cost and time it takes to keep a site like this up and running. Thanks go out to Tom and all the Mods.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/07/1604:10 PM
Ian...my combo is a 572" pump gas hemi (800+ hp N/A), 727 trans (footbraking), 4.10 Dana w/ Cal-Tracs and drag radials. The car weighs about 3900 lbs. The car is set up to run the 1/4. Best N/A pass is 6.05 at 112.9 mph in the 1/8 and 9.54 at 140.4 mph in the 1/4. That was in good air. best on spray so far is the 8.95 at 149.7 and 5.71 at 121.6 in the 1/8. The air was not too great when I ran that night, but not sure it matters a whole lot when using nitrous.
The converter seems to be on the tight side. I had my converter guy build me one specifically for nitrous, 9" spragless. Seems to have around 6% slip up top. Surprisingly, the 4.10 gear seems to be OK through the 1/4 on the nitrous. Crosses the strip at about 7400. I'm hoping the switch from the -4 feed to the bigger -6 will help somewhat. Bottle's in the trunk so there's 14 feet of feed line. That much -4 line has to be restrictive?
I have not tried less than 3 tenths delay on the hit. I had it nearly go on the bumper the first night I ran it w/ the new D/A shocks. Got them to where the car is leaving good now w/ the 3 tenth delay. I just have a digiset, no progressive.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/07/1604:52 PM
Originally Posted By 72sat
is there a way to split these up into separate groups. I love any and all power adders. but I'm not so smart. would love to keep each adder separate just to keep it a little simpler. there is definitely enough interest, can somebody help make this right????
I agree, and I understand that "traffic" is the main goal seldom talked about goal here, but seems to me lumping all power adders together serves little purpose to the followers, like combining auto and manual transmissions in one thread. Its enough hassle IMO sorting thru the unrelated stuff that it actually reduces the highly sought after "traffic", and that leads to the widely predicted demise. Not separating is half hearted. I fully admit there may not be enough interest in the first place, but not done well, it just leads to failure.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/08/1604:29 AM
What size line is best for pressure measurements/gauges on both hot and cold side for a turbo? 1/8" Tubing? Does it matter or effect response time, if it can even be seen by eye?
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/08/1602:44 PM
for steady-state dyno work, we use 1/4" line.
For any high speed measurements we use direct mount transducers with cooled adapters that sample every 0.1-1 crank angle degrees. This is probably outside the requirements and budget, however.
Anyone using turbo speed sensors at the track? I doubt the sizing is that close to the limit of what most are doing, just be interesting to see...
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/08/1606:49 PM
I use 1/4 line as well with either a pushloc or compression fittings for easy removal. Reference points may very to some degree but off the top of my head Wastegate (below TB/CARB) Fuel pressure regulator (carb hat preferable toward the back of the hat where a clean sweep into the inlet of the carb/tb) Boost vacuum gauge (intake runner) Blow off valve (below the TB/CARB) MAP sensor for msd 6al (below the TB/CARB) Tigger sensor for my ams500 wastegate controller (carb hat) its on a pressure switch much like a hobbs switch
This was how my slant was setup and ill follow close to that same pattern on my twin setup. When i refer to below the carb/thorttle body im refering to the plenum inlet aera Hope this helps
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/08/1610:08 PM
looking for some jetting for a nos cheater plate,im currently running a .055n/.045f,, 5 psi flowing through flow tool,and 30*timing total. on pump gas in a 340 stroker 9.8 comp iron head street/strip motor. gap at what would be the next step up in jets for horsepower.current plugs are champion rc9yc.at .030 gap.msd 6al box with the dialback timing box hooked to it.i always db check it on balancer when using the dialback.thanks mike
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/09/1604:20 AM
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Ian...my combo is a 572" pump gas hemi (800+ hp N/A), 727 trans (footbraking), 4.10 Dana w/ Cal-Tracs and drag radials. The car weighs about 3900 lbs. The car is set up to run the 1/4. Best N/A pass is 6.05 at 112.9 mph in the 1/8 and 9.54 at 140.4 mph in the 1/4. That was in good air. best on spray so far is the 8.95 at 149.7 and 5.71 at 121.6 in the 1/8. The air was not too great when I ran that night, but not sure it matters a whole lot when using nitrous.
The converter seems to be on the tight side. I had my converter guy build me one specifically for nitrous, 9" spragless. Seems to have around 6% slip up top. Surprisingly, the 4.10 gear seems to be OK through the 1/4 on the nitrous. Crosses the strip at about 7400. I'm hoping the switch from the -4 feed to the bigger -6 will help somewhat. Bottle's in the trunk so there's 14 feet of feed line. That much -4 line has to be restrictive?
I have not tried less than 3 tenths delay on the hit. I had it nearly go on the bumper the first night I ran it w/ the new D/A shocks. Got them to where the car is leaving good now w/ the 3 tenth delay. I just have a digiset, no progressive. thanks that gives me a better understanding whats going on with your combo .the next thing i would look at is front end travel and stiffness and the rate of extension on the front ,i have changed mine to keep the front down on the hit and screw the hit earlier.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/09/1609:56 PM
Ian...my D/A shocks are a little shorter than my old shocks so I lost about an inch of travel. Between that and tightening up the extension I was able to get the car to leave VERY nicely last time out. Came up about a foot and carried it about 100 feet out.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/10/1612:55 AM
Originally Posted By jcc
What size line is best for pressure measurements/gauges on both hot and cold side for a turbo? 1/8" Tubing? Does it matter or effect response time, if it can even be seen by eye?
I use copper oil psi line and gauge to measure hot side back pressure. This was suggested to me by my 'build mentor' The gauge bounces a lot until you pour the coals to it but I got nice steady reading at the upper rpm range this way. I found out just how small my Ford SVO turbos were that way and moved up to some Precisions that have a much more friendly ~2:1 ratio (for my big heavy street car I'm fine with that in order to get the responsiveness I want)
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/10/1608:38 AM
A smaller feed line will always respond quicker BUT it can also have a lot of jump in the gauge if your using a gauge... a transducer is much better and faster if your using a data logger.. some of the stuff I was using had a rate of 800 reads per second and there is faster stuff now.. if you want to get rid of the jumping gauge you can put a small orifice in the gauge to smooth out the reading.. but it will slow it down
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/10/1609:01 AM
A 45* fitting will do wonders... but if you didnt use that throttle cable set up it would fit.. I use that same one EDIT My bowl entries are on the pass side of the carb.. you might want to swap the bowls end for end to get them on the pass side...... never mind... I see thats for a regulator or a solenoid
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/10/1602:02 PM
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Ian...my D/A shocks are a little shorter than my old shocks so I lost about an inch of travel. Between that and tightening up the extension I was able to get the car to leave VERY nicely last time out. Came up about a foot and carried it about 100 feet out.
very good mate that about my limit on hooking ,you are doing a great job cheers mate.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/10/1604:44 PM
Originally Posted By MR_P_BODY
A 45* fitting will do wonders... but if you didnt use that throttle cable set up it would fit.. I use that same one EDIT My bowl entries are on the pass side of the carb.. you might want to swap the bowls end for end to get them on the pass side...... never mind... I see thats for a regulator or a solenoid
A 45* will work, but if the designer took five minutes to test fit the bracket it could have been made to work with any fitting. Instead I have another $100 worth of junk on the shelf on my shop.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/10/1604:57 PM
Originally Posted By birdtracker
thanks for the advice. My motor is 14 1/2 already. Birdtracker
Nothing wrong w/ spraying a motor with that much compression, you just need to be conservative w/ timing. I've recently started spraying a 14.5:1 sb chevy. We'll see how it goes.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/11/1602:12 AM
Timing is everything. Cold air is better than warm air. Timing is everything. Don't use exhaust gaskets on turbo cars. Timing is everything. Small compressors cause higher back pressure than large ones. Timing is everything. Transmissions don't like turbos. Timing is everything. Use the strongest wrist pins you can get. Timing is everything. More head bolts are better than less head bolts. Timing is everything. It's better to spend big money on engine management for a junk engine, than it is to put junk controls on an expensive engine. Oh... and timing is real important too.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/11/1602:35 AM
Originally Posted By TRENDZ
Timing is everything. Cold air is better than warm air. Timing is everything. Don't use exhaust gaskets on turbo cars. Timing is everything. Small compressors cause higher back pressure than large ones. Timing is everything. Transmissions don't like turbos. Timing is everything. Use the strongest wrist pins you can get. Timing is everything. More head bolts are better than less head bolts. Timing is everything. It's better to spend big money on engine management for a junk engine, than it is to put junk controls on an expensive engine. Oh... and timing is real important too.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/11/1606:54 AM
I SAID I WAS'NT THE SMARTEST GUY,BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS. every time you post,whether it's a new post or a reply to an existing post. start the post off with the POWER ADDER IN CAPITAL LETTERS. TURBO,N2O,BLOWER, SUPERCHARGER, something that will alert everyone what this post topic is about. just trying to find a way to sort thru this faster.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/11/1608:18 PM
Originally Posted By Jeremiah
Originally Posted By MR_P_BODY
A 45* fitting will do wonders... but if you didnt use that throttle cable set up it would fit.. I use that same one EDIT My bowl entries are on the pass side of the carb.. you might want to swap the bowls end for end to get them on the pass side...... never mind... I see thats for a regulator or a solenoid
A 45* will work, but if the designer took five minutes to test fit the bracket it could have been made to work with any fitting. Instead I have another $100 worth of junk on the shelf on my shop.
It would be great if everything worked with every combination of parts you may want to use, but it doesn't always work like that. The bracket has extra clearance to also work with 50cc pumps. If the line fit, but it wouldn't clear the pump arm, guys wouldn't like that either........LOL!!
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/12/1610:08 PM
for whatever reason, against conventional wisdom, my usage of oem exhaust manifold gaskets with copper rtv works. Perhaps it's because I'm using an OEM cast manifold that doesn't move around like a fabbed one likely would. I only used goo in the joint from manifold to piping, but I think I used a steel shim gasket at the turbine. If I was running 20psi of boost and had my 2:1 backpressure maybe I'd be a lot more leaky than I am =)
I have -3 lines from my solenoids to the plate. Is it worth it to change the solenoid fittings to -4 and use the -4/-3 combo lines? The line itself looks to be the same size, so the only gain in flow looks to be from the larger -4 fittings on the solenoids. I know all the bigger kits use the -4/-3 lines. I started w/ a small kit and worked up to a big one. Just curious if it's worth the $140+ to change 2 fittings and 4 lines?
Care to critique my set up? 360 10.5:1 compression, eddy 63cc chamber heads, MP.557 solid cam. Holley 750 DP. Edelbrock nitrous kit with 100 shot jets. -8 feeding line with a holley blue pump feeding the engine, -6 and another holley blue pump feeding the nitrous (from the same fuel cell). Rings are gapped I believe .025 (speedpro recommended for nitrous). My plugs are NGK that are gapped at .040. I haven't run it yet so I figured I post my combo and let the pros tell me if I made any mistakes. I'm also using an MSD digital 6 with the nitrous retard removing 5 degrees of timing once the WOT switch is made.
Care to critique my set up? 360 10.5:1 compression, eddy 63cc chamber heads, MP.557 solid cam. Holley 750 DP. Edelbrock nitrous kit with 100 shot jets. -8 feeding line with a holley blue pump feeding the engine, -6 and another holley blue pump feeding the nitrous (from the same fuel cell). Rings are gapped I believe .025 (speedpro recommended for nitrous). My plugs are NGK that are gapped at .040. I haven't run it yet so I figured I post my combo and let the pros tell me if I made any mistakes. I'm also using an MSD digital 6 with the nitrous retard removing 5 degrees of timing once the WOT switch is made.
Hi, well I'm no pro at N20 and lots have changed since then re N20 but thats almost exactly how I ran my Cheater Kit 25years ago, except I ran my NGK's at a bit smaller gap than that with the MSD6A, both on my 340 at 250hp jets and the 440 at 175hp jets, could go as low as 4psi on the N20 fuel with a seperate blue pump.
ps. thought I was doing ok by getting 1.4sec gain on the 340 with 250hp (110/110 jets), apparently not?, I was only getting about 150hp actual fly hp gain according to the mph/weight.
ps. thought I was doing ok by getting 1.4sec gain on the 340 with 250hp (110/110 jets), apparently not?, I was only getting about 150hp actual fly hp gain according to the mph/weight.
I got 1.2 sec and 13 mph (on a 12 second car) on a 0.051 jet
Something may have been up...
Superchuck, in my limited experience, that sounds like a good start. WHat fuel jet and fuel pressure you plan on running?
ps. thought I was doing ok by getting 1.4sec gain on the 340 with 250hp (110/110 jets), apparently not?, I was only getting about 150hp actual fly hp gain according to the mph/weight.
I got 1.2 sec and 13 mph (on a 12 second car) on a 0.051 jet
Something may have been up...
No it ran real sweet, rather boring really, all I noticed was that it was all over a bit quicker than usual. I used to run around 12.4's@108 N/a on 98 octane at 36 deg total. I only came back 2 deg, hit it off the line as well and went 122.8, tbh 110/110 was extra safe on the petrol side on those kits as std. back then!.....the chassis was up to it on leafs. A .051 jet was only 125hp if I remember right on the cheater kit, thats half of what I ran, was yours a bone stock motor?
Having a seperate pump for N20 is the biggest important thing you can do, although for 100 shot its not necessary, but it IS when you step it up!!
rb446...you're right, a lot has changed w/ nitrous in the past 25 years. That 110/110 jetting was not extra safe, just extra rich. There's a reason the jet maps are so different now. And running a separate pump for the nitrous is not necessary. One good pump w/ a separate regulator for each stage is all you need.
Yeah thats what I meant, extra safe = extra rich. So todays equivalent NOS Cheater kit or 1 with the same size solenoids would be what in the hp ratings per jet sizes?...I see plates with dual cross bars and all sorts, will have to do some research, so whats the main reason jet maps are so different, retard boxes etc., progressive solenoids?
We don't go much on N20 over here any more cept for some of the Pro-Mod runners and a few Top Sportsman runners, its regarded as cheating by most of the doorslammer guys....I say do what you gotta to win if its allowed, which it is!......I guess there's nothing wrong in being a purist so to say, but.
A lot of guys here are buying big stroker motors at serious $$$$$!!, when they could put together a cheapo 468 chev (sorry), or a Mopar, stick a .600" lift cam and ally heads, x2 .090 thou solenoids and make 1100hp+!!, been done by many when Super Mod was running here, they outran all the big cube N/A boys
ps. thought I was doing ok by getting 1.4sec gain on the 340 with 250hp (110/110 jets), apparently not?, I was only getting about 150hp actual fly hp gain according to the mph/weight.
I got 1.2 sec and 13 mph (on a 12 second car) on a 0.051 jet
Something may have been up...
Superchuck, in my limited experience, that sounds like a good start. WHat fuel jet and fuel pressure you plan on running?
The carb is using 72/78 I can't remember the nitrous jet sizes, the kit came with 100/ 150/ 175/ 250 jets. I put in the smallest. Carb fuel pressure is 5 1/2 and I still have the set the pressure for the nitrous, I was thinking the same at 5 1/2. Maybe I should tighten up the spark plug gap?
My car is only used for sportman bracket racing, I'll only use the nitrous for test and tune for a few of those WOOHOOO passes. I already had the kit for something else.
The factory jetting recommendations are generally a bit rich. Looking a the Perf. RPM kit instructions on Summit, 100hp looks like 59N/59F. This will likely be rich.
The old powershot plates called for 47N/53F, I think I reversed them to 53N/47F and got close.
I was a overly conservative with mine and went a step colder plug as well pulling more timing.
They figured out that rich is not safe, so they leaned out the jetting. They went to square jetting and eventually to the nitrous jets being larger than the fuel jet. Everyone used to just flip flop the jetting, like OUTLAWD said, which made em run a lot better.
A Cheater system will supposedly flow 250 hp max. The orifice in a Cheater nitrous solenoid is only .093", so your 110 jet really did no more than a 93 jet would have. The solenoid was your restriction.
Hey guys, what spark plug do you recommend for my 340 with a 150-175 hit of spray? Im running a w-2 head with the old school trw domed pistons, which works out to be 12.3 to 1 comp. Ive got NGK GR4's right now.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/15/1611:32 PM
Nitrous question. Is it better to "under carb" a heavy dosing nitrous engine? Seems to me that you would get a higher oxygen content with smaller throttle plates. I saw a nitrous specific sheet metal intake with some very small throttle bodies way back when.... Was on a "somewhat" local engine builders car. Very competitive at the time. I wasn't supposed to see it. Always wondered about that.
I have -3 lines from my solenoids to the plate. Is it worth it to change the solenoid fittings to -4 and use the -4/-3 combo lines? The line itself looks to be the same size, so the only gain in flow looks to be from the larger -4 fittings on the solenoids. I know all the bigger kits use the -4/-3 lines. I started w/ a small kit and worked up to a big one. Just curious if it's worth the $140+ to change 2 fittings and 4 lines?
u
Might be minimal, I never tested back to back....but usually any thing you do to increase even the supply of nitrous to the jet helps. I changed from a .116 solenoid to a trash can and the car was totally different.
The old saying "rich is safe" is total bullcrap!! being extra rich can actually be worse than being extra lean. If you read todays jetting the pros prefer little on the lean side and pull more timing.
Hopefully Monte Smith will chime in and explain this better than I can. But I use to be one of those "fat is safe and more timing means more power" dummies also.
TIMING is what destroys nitrous motors NOT lean. With enough timing out, you can't get one lean enough to hurt it. It will just be down on power, like any other vehicle that is lean. No fuel, no power.
Too many are under the impression that timing MAKES power, it does not. Timing, or spark lead is just where you light the fire based on the efficiency of your engine to get a complete burn. The combination is what makes power, NOT how much timing you run in it.
The "old school" way rich tunes seemed to stand more timing, simply because you were not making near the power you thought you were, because it was dead rich. Way rich, with big loads of nitrous will beat ring lands off pistons faster than you can replace them
TIMING is what destroys nitrous motors NOT lean. With enough timing out, you can't get one lean enough to hurt it. It will just be down on power, like any other vehicle that is lean. No fuel, no power.
Too many are under the impression that timing MAKES power, it does not. Timing, or spark lead is just where you light the fire based on the efficiency of your engine to get a complete burn. The combination is what makes power, NOT how much timing you run in it.
The "old school" way rich tunes seemed to stand more timing, simply because you were not making near the power you thought you were, because it was dead rich. Way rich, with big loads of nitrous will beat ring lands off pistons faster than you can replace them
Thank you for explaining this, I'm going to inform some other dummies I know.
Don't be afraid to retard timing.....I ended up with 8* total....with a ten spread direct port , 4.5 psi flowing and a ten spread plate 5.0 psi flowing...both on at the same time. always retard before you advance .
I banged out rings, head gaskets and Pistons when trying the same tuneup with 12* timing. Just because I thought...how could it run with so little timing ? burn and Learn.....lol
TIMING is what destroys nitrous motors NOT lean. With enough timing out, you can't get one lean enough to hurt it. It will just be down on power, like any other vehicle that is lean. No fuel, no power.
Too many are under the impression that timing MAKES power, it does not. Timing, or spark lead is just where you light the fire based on the efficiency of your engine to get a complete burn. The combination is what makes power, NOT how much timing you run in it.
The "old school" way rich tunes seemed to stand more timing, simply because you were not making near the power you thought you were, because it was dead rich. Way rich, with big loads of nitrous will beat ring lands off pistons faster than you can replace them
Thank you for explaining this, I'm going to inform some other dummies I know.
You saw how I ran that Vette. 870" motor on 4 stages with a 13.0 target air fuel ratio. It WORKS
So in order to run the timing to make the power that you need, is the solution to run a chemical system like Snow to avoid that detonation? You dyno the motor to say 1000HP. With all things being constant in the dyno, you make your 1000HP with a specific timing. The real world of changes in air pressure, temp and humidity, you can maintain that timing and HP by using the chemical system to protect the motor from detonation?
Ran the car last night w/ the exact same setup as last time, except for the bigger -6 feed line from the bottle to the solenoid. The weather was worse last night, yet the car still ran 1 mph faster. ET was almost the same as before. Back in September in better air it ran 8.95 at 149.7 mph. Last night it went 8.96 at 150.6 mph. Much warmer and humid last night...not sure what the DA was. So maybe the bigger feed line leaned it out a little and gained me some MPH. It got quicker when I brought the nitrous in faster. For my last pass I took another degree of timing out and lowered the fuel pressure by about 1/4 lb., but the track went away.
TIMING is what destroys nitrous motors NOT lean. With enough timing out, you can't get one lean enough to hurt it. It will just be down on power, like any other vehicle that is lean. No fuel, no power.
Too many are under the impression that timing MAKES power, it does not. Timing, or spark lead is just where you light the fire based on the efficiency of your engine to get a complete burn. The combination is what makes power, NOT how much timing you run in it.
The "old school" way rich tunes seemed to stand more timing, simply because you were not making near the power you thought you were, because it was dead rich. Way rich, with big loads of nitrous will beat ring lands off pistons faster than you can replace them
Thank you for explaining this, I'm going to inform some other dummies I know.
You saw how I ran that Vette. 870" motor on 4 stages with a 13.0 target air fuel ratio. It WORKS
I did I was trying to learn all I could that day from you and Eddie LOL
Ran the car last night w/ the exact same setup as last time, except for the bigger -6 feed line from the bottle to the solenoid. The weather was worse last night, yet the car still ran 1 mph faster. ET was almost the same as before. Back in September in better air it ran 8.95 at 149.7 mph. Last night it went 8.96 at 150.6 mph. Much warmer and humid last night...not sure what the DA was. So maybe the bigger feed line leaned it out a little and gained me some MPH. It got quicker when I brought the nitrous in faster. For my last pass I took another degree of timing out and lowered the fuel pressure by about 1/4 lb., but the track went away.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/19/1603:36 PM
What are the factors involved when deciding intake inlet size from say intercooler to throttle body? In this case, /6, 300hp? EFI, turbo, 4spd, 2500lb, autox/road race track car. Seems like its a restriction vs throttle response consideration, or 2.5" vs 3" tubing.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/19/1606:09 PM
I personally would suggest to go with larger tubing. Larger tubing does take a bit longer to fill, but pre-boost throttle response actually gets better. A good example would be with the old Buick Grand Nationals. You could get a kit that had a larger tube that went from the intercooler to the throttle body, and an over sized weld on elbow for the turbo side of the intercooler. It made a great improvement in the pre-boost power. Any extra time it may have taken to fill the tubing/ intercooler was more than made up for in throttle response pre-boost.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/21/1607:30 PM
Monte...the more plenum volume the better w/ nitrous? Cast single 4500 manifold in question.
I experimented w/ an Indy 426-4 manifold in the past on my hemi. It's a good bit larger in both the plenum and runners than my Barton manifold. It hurt the lowend grunt significantly naturally aspirated, but I'm thinking it may be the way to go w/ nitrous?
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/22/1602:46 PM
I just got a set of -4/-3 lines and wow, they have a lot bigger ID than the straight -3 lines do! Surprised to see that as the only difference you can see on the outside is that the fitting on one end is the bigger -4 size.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/23/1612:22 AM
NOS Monte
Where is the perfect spot to install O2 bung in merge collector?
What is the best retard delay for annular fogger?
Same question for plate?
Back together with Charlie's chamber softening and valve job. Only took a couple cc's out of chamber. Nothing else. 48 cc P7. Large step header sound great. Hopefully really gonna free some power on top end.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/23/1607:34 PM
Originally Posted By TRENDZ
I personally would suggest to go with larger tubing. Larger tubing does take a bit longer to fill, but pre-boost throttle response actually gets better. A good example would be with the old Buick Grand Nationals. You could get a kit that had a larger tube that went from the intercooler to the throttle body, and an over sized weld on elbow for the turbo side of the intercooler. It made a great improvement in the pre-boost power. Any extra time it may have taken to fill the tubing/ intercooler was more than made up for in throttle response pre-boost.
What's the 'how' behind this, interested to know. Wasn't the conventional wisdom in Corky's book to use the smallest tubing that wouldn't result in Mach 1 speeds in the intake tract?
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/23/1607:47 PM
Originally Posted By furious70
Originally Posted By TRENDZ
I personally would suggest to go with larger tubing. Larger tubing does take a bit longer to fill, but pre-boost throttle response actually gets better. A good example would be with the old Buick Grand Nationals. You could get a kit that had a larger tube that went from the intercooler to the throttle body, and an over sized weld on elbow for the turbo side of the intercooler. It made a great improvement in the pre-boost power. Any extra time it may have taken to fill the tubing/ intercooler was more than made up for in throttle response pre-boost.
What's the 'how' behind this, interested to know. Wasn't the conventional wisdom in Corky's book to use the smallest tubing that wouldn't result in Mach 1 speeds in the intake tract?
Picture a part throttle condition, MAP is below baro, but between compressor and throttle is more or less close to baro, minus any inlet restriction dP. When you go to WOT, the larger volume will take longer to deplete before the pressure drops, whereas the smaller volume will deplete quickly. By the time this volume is depleted, the turbo should be spooled.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/23/1607:56 PM
N2O Question:
If I cannot get my new EFI setup to compensate for a dry shot, should I be able to use my existing fuel solenoid (E-brock RPM solenoid, unknown orifice) with 60psi fuel rail pressure from the EFI system?
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/23/1610:23 PM
Originally Posted By OUTLAWD
Originally Posted By furious70
Originally Posted By TRENDZ
I personally would suggest to go with larger tubing. Larger tubing does take a bit longer to fill, but pre-boost throttle response actually gets better. A good example would be with the old Buick Grand Nationals. You could get a kit that had a larger tube that went from the intercooler to the throttle body, and an over sized weld on elbow for the turbo side of the intercooler. It made a great improvement in the pre-boost power. Any extra time it may have taken to fill the tubing/ intercooler was more than made up for in throttle response pre-boost.
What's the 'how' behind this, interested to know. Wasn't the conventional wisdom in Corky's book to use the smallest tubing that wouldn't result in Mach 1 speeds in the intake tract?
Picture a part throttle condition, MAP is below baro, but between compressor and throttle is more or less close to baro, minus any inlet restriction dP. When you go to WOT, the larger volume will take longer to deplete before the pressure drops, whereas the smaller volume will deplete quickly. By the time this volume is depleted, the turbo should be spooled.
Of course with that logic, every car/motor combination would have its own "sweet Spot", based on many things, including driving style, track layout, ratios, etc, if I understand the principle proposed, which on face value, makes sense.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/24/1612:36 AM
Originally Posted By jcc
Originally Posted By OUTLAWD
Originally Posted By furious70
Originally Posted By TRENDZ
I personally would suggest to go with larger tubing. Larger tubing does take a bit longer to fill, but pre-boost throttle response actually gets better. A good example would be with the old Buick Grand Nationals. You could get a kit that had a larger tube that went from the intercooler to the throttle body, and an over sized weld on elbow for the turbo side of the intercooler. It made a great improvement in the pre-boost power. Any extra time it may have taken to fill the tubing/ intercooler was more than made up for in throttle response pre-boost.
What's the 'how' behind this, interested to know. Wasn't the conventional wisdom in Corky's book to use the smallest tubing that wouldn't result in Mach 1 speeds in the intake tract?
Picture a part throttle condition, MAP is below baro, but between compressor and throttle is more or less close to baro, minus any inlet restriction dP. When you go to WOT, the larger volume will take longer to deplete before the pressure drops, whereas the smaller volume will deplete quickly. By the time this volume is depleted, the turbo should be spooled.
Of course with that logic, every car/motor combination would have its own "sweet Spot", based on many things, including driving style, track layout, ratios, etc, if I understand the principle proposed, which on face value, makes sense.
Think of it in extremes. No turbo in this little experiment. Lets say you put a 6 inch square box on your engine before the throttle plates. It has a dime sized hole in it. Whack the throttle open. The engine consumes the air very quickly and is very down on power. Now, put a 6 foot square box on it. Same dime sized hole. The engine will make much more power, for a longer time, before the air is depleted. Like I said extreme, but it sort of illustrates the point.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/24/1603:27 AM
Your example is valid and I agree, but to fill the larger box at first or after once depleted, takes a longer time, the larger the box, hence my "sweet spot" comment, correct?
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/26/1606:11 PM
Compression ? Again. I'm building a 413ci smallblock with large port commando heads blown with a 6-71 and to be run on E85.. I'm sure I will not go over about 16lbs boost and probably not that much. I'm looking for compression ratio recommendations. I'm leaning toward 10.5 to 11. What are your thoughts???? Thanks, Max
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/29/1601:03 AM
Pretty boring on this post so I'll add some pictures for next years nitrous build. I bought these pistons last year off Jason Digby and needed a different rod length (7.150). He is making the switch over to a turbo build so I bought a low run set off of Jason. After the season if I don't find a chevy sized 4.500 stroke crank I will remove the one I'm using this year to have it cut down. By then my nitrous learning curve will have a little experience so I can let her eat. The rods showed up today.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/29/1601:58 AM
Originally Posted By D-50
Nice looking pistons and rods. About what will the compression be with those?
I really don't know yet. I have a new set of B1 heads that I started porting but haven't finished yet with really small chambers. I will have those finished hopefully to go on this build next year. The set going on this years engine stall around 420cfm and will go higher with some more time but I want to get this engine together. Like I said earlier the pistons I have for this year will only take a recommended 250 hit MAX. Time to get my feet wet.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/29/1602:04 AM
You need to look at the pictures of Wade's heads that Charlie Buck did. You don't soften up those B-1 chambers it will be VERY timing sensitive. Also the right camshaft is a MUST. Nearly impossible to get the numbers you NEED on a standard BBM core. Needs to be 55mm
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/29/1602:26 AM
Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
You need to look at the pictures of Wade's heads that Charlie Buck did. You don't soften up those B-1 chambers it will be VERY timing sensitive. Also the right camshaft is a MUST. Nearly impossible to get the numbers you NEED on a standard BBM core. Needs to be 55mm
I'll have to try to find that post Monte but being retired on a limited budget and now 60 years old its go time. A good Friend Tom Hemphile speced a cam for me for this year so like I said I will get my feet wet. We have a small heads-up series at Quaker City called Dads Outlaw Street that my car will fit in and its mostly local low-dollar guys out for fun. Looking forward to a new challenge but my bracket car comes first. I love to race 1-2 times a week.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/29/1605:23 PM
Originally Posted By FastmOp
I'm starting a twin turbo hemi build. Still need the turbos and many other parts but it's a start.
that's a stock 440 gasket for comparison
Wow monster difference in intake port size, FastmOp keep us update to date on the progress of the twin turbo hemi build.
I just received my pistons yesterday so its time to get the block in for final hone. Im still a couple months out but on track for june,july of this year. I still got a ton of work to do but only time will tell.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/30/1603:08 PM
Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
You need to look at the pictures of Wade's heads that Charlie Buck did. You don't soften up those B-1 chambers it will be VERY timing sensitive. Also the right camshaft is a MUST. Nearly impossible to get the numbers you NEED on a standard BBM core. Needs to be 55mm
My B1 Original Heads were done by MCH, and were opened up to 76cc chambers and the quench pad was also angle cut for nitrous. With 13.5:1 compression and a 93 jet (250 HP) in an IS plate, that motor only liked 18 degrees of timing when going down the track.
Granted, a different cam could have changed that a bit. It was a nitrous cam, and worked well.
Also, that was at Bandimere where the air is thin. So, at sea level would have wanted even less timing.
I agree with Monte that if you don't soften the chambers it will be very timing sensitive. Well worth the money in my opinion.
Mine made 650 to the wheels on motor, and 905 on the 93 jet.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 04/03/1608:19 PM
Originally Posted By Leon441
NOS Monte
Where is the perfect spot to install O2 bung in merge collector?
What is the best retard delay for annular fogger?
Same question for plate?
Back together with Charlie's chamber softening and valve job. Only took a couple cc's out of chamber. Nothing else. 48 cc P7. Large step header sound great. Hopefully really gonna free some power on top end.
Went testing. A 36 pill in a double cross on a dirt rd. of a track went 5.42. 13.5 a/f very light fuel ring on plug. Saturday starting line was sticky. 32/24 in a wacked off make shift annular nozzle hit like a brick. Having to relearn wheelie bar steering on the big tire. Huge difference from the old 4 jet spreads of back in the day. 12.6/ a/f on fogger. Probably go up .002 on the nos side to clean up. Big thanks on the suggestions from Monte over tge last year or so. The plugs look great so far as timing. This 32 pill with a clean tune feels better than the 40 pills back in the day.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 04/04/1603:59 AM
Kid installed wheeli bars while I was building exhaust. He asked about a heim screwed out and I thought he was overthinking. Turns out I had a brain fart and the sticks were driving the car hard left. We never made it to the 60 under power. It leaves stupid hard on prepped track. Hopefully make more hits Friday.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 04/06/1609:07 PM
Good thread! Never thought I would be interested in Nitrous but after seeing it being used a bit for strategy or "catch-up" in our local Super Pro bracket program I started giving it some thought. Recently picked up a "new" never installed Zex system with two bottles, it is for a dominator carb and tunable between 125 - 450 hp and also came with a new purge and bottle blow off kit, will be getting a bottle warmer kit to keep it at optimal pressure soon then put it all in. Best part is it all together was well under $500.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 04/13/1610:11 PM
This is my 1st time dealing with a pro mag. If I remember right you run big stuff 3. Do you run it from the standard location or is it cam driven . What box do you use with it? What do you do to pull timing with the pro mag? Is it easily programmable.
I will be ordering parts later this summer and hope to have the hemi running next summer. Depends how this season goes with the wedge.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 04/24/1605:01 PM
I would look at putting coil on plug instead of the mag , it is simpler and less potential to go wrong . With the BS3 you would get traction control and a starting line retard built right in when you switch to the LS1 coil on plug system . It has a 24 tooth pick up wheel on the crank so timing is extremely accurate . My car sounds better better with the Coil on plug spark system than when it had a MSD 10 , not sure why but it does ? It end up being cheaper and has more options than the mag . Just something to think about .
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 04/24/1607:03 PM
I have the FAST black box with traction control now. I can add CoP but figured the Pro Mag would be better for lighting methanol.
Did you ever run a pro mag before the CoP?
I really don't want a pro mag sticking through the hood. I been looking at cam driven mags but would really like to put the fuel pump there. The CoP would go a long way to doing what I need but I worry about lighting 50+ PSI of boost.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 04/26/1610:25 AM
I hear everyday that COP is fine for nitrous cars, but doesn't work on turbos with methanol.......rubbish. They work just fine. In addition to car Go Green mentioned, there is also Tom Bailey who runs COP with a Holley box on his twin turbo methanol car and countless others. While SOME ECUs don't work well with COP, it's NOT the fault of the coils, they are plenty hot. There are also some screw blown EFI cars with COP
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 04/26/1604:57 PM
Well I picked this up not sure what I'll do with it. I posted in General but figure this is a better spot. Thinking of using a 70-78 short bed 2wd pickup. Of course I'll have to upgrade the turbo..it was suggest I run it on propane and honestly the "mixer" set up isn't much more than a good carb. This will just be a street beater and see a drag race every so often. Looking at making a streetable 600hp. Anyway flame away.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 05/01/1601:47 AM
Thought i share a pic I was final able to get the turbos semi mocked up in the Ttoad its been along time coming. Things are progressing along and work looks like its slowing down so lets hope i can continue to make some progress and have my junk ready for this summer.
I am exploring my cam sync options on turbo /6. Since it will be a coil per plug set-up, I can ditch the distributor and would like to clean up that area anyway. Can I simply install/mount a magnet to the front cam sprocket and mount an adjustable pickup thru the sheet metal timing chain cover? My 60-2 reluctor solution is already figured out. If so, do I want the magnet closer or farther from the rotating center of the cam? Do I have to be concerned if drilling with any loss of strength, or balance, since motor will never be over 5k and cam speed is half that?
Re: More efi then adder question - 05/07/1608:11 PM
Mounting a cam sync off the timing cover is a great way to go. I have done this many times. The process is buying a cam sync sensor like the MSD 2346 and installing the magnet in the cam gear (drill and epoxy in the magnet). There are some considerations: 1) If the cam gear is ferrous you must isolate the magnet with the aluminum collar that comes with it. 2) The magnet has a N and S end. You must mount it with the N side out. If at all possible you should check the signal from the sensor before committing. I have had several 2346s when the N/S wasn't marked at all. It must be positive going first. I check my magnets on the bench, with a wood wheel mounted to a drill, and an oscilloscope first.
3) Sheet metal timing covers are flimsy and pretty thin. The sensor screws in, so if a cast cover is not available add a stiffener on the outside to give you some thread thickness. 4) Decide on the EFI system first so you will know what the cam signal timing must be.
Re: More efi then adder question - 05/07/1608:16 PM
If you really want to go COP, then I would strongly suggest the Holley-EFI HP or Dominator rather than FAST. Much easier to set up, smaller, coil drivers inside one box, etc ...
I forgot to answer your other question. You want as much velocity past the sensor so mount the magnet near the outer edge of the cam gear. The signal is RPM dependent, so this affects only starting, but it IS a consideration.
Re: More efi then adder question - 05/07/1608:21 PM
Worst case you can always just cut the rotor off a dizzy, grind off reluctor teeth leaving one for the cam signal, then make a dust cap. That works fine too. Now you have an engine position sensor that can be adjusted on the fly.
Re: More efi then adder question - 05/07/1610:46 PM
Thanks, that all helps a lot. I was thinking of building up a reinforced indexable pickup on the timing chain cover, for the two reasons you mentioned, adjustability, and stiffness. That was related to my question on mounting distance to center of the cam, smaller radius is easier, but I will take you suggestion. Did you mention magnet off balance created issues/concerns? Maybe we /6 could get Andy to do a run of billet 225 covers while he is hot to make alum chips.
Re: More efi then adder question - 05/07/1611:45 PM
Balance? Not an issue. The magnet weight is a very close match to the metal drilled out. And remember the cam is at half crank RPM.
BTW: Regardless of the ECU you have a fairly wide window for the signal to occur (+/- 30 degrees). It's only telling the ECU when to start the sequence. It has no effect on ignition timing. So the cam sensor does not have to be adjustable. Just take the time to position the sensor in the middle of the acceptable range and bolt it in. A little off either way will not matter.
As to Andy... The /6 market is pretty small. When I wrote that "Leaning Overkill" EFI article there was a lot of curiosity but not that much business. This is yours truly checking injector sequencing on that motor.
Re: More efi then adder question - 05/10/1605:01 AM
There was a guy using a Jeep cam position sensor with a machined collar that just dropped in place of the distributor . Did Andy F ever make any of these ? I switched to a RCD gear drive and need a cam sensor setup . Fuel pump is mounted directly to the front cover so the snout sensor for the RCD will not work .
Re: More efi then adder question - 05/11/1602:55 AM
I'm in the process of installing an alum bung in a /6 Clifford intake turbo set-up for an IAT. Since turbo heat and the fact the intake and exhaust effectively share the same space, and its an efi dry manifold, how much concern do I need to have with heat soak with the IAT? I am epoxing the injector bungs in to provide a little help with thermally isolating them, maybe I should epoxy the IAT bung also? Does it need a mounting ground/shield? The epoxy I have chosen is high temp (600F) kinda pricey industrial stuff.
Re: More efi then adder question - 05/14/1605:06 PM
A dish 3.750 wide and .120 deep would give me 20cc+/- with a .300 to the side of the piston and give me 9.2cr from my 10.25cr now.[78cc chamber,.060 gasket.]
This is an older Compucar bottle, bought in 2004 I think. Can anyone tell me how much nitrous you can spray w/ this valve before it becomes a restriction?
edit...OK, so right after I posted this, I called Compucar to see what they say. Should have just called them first, but oh well. Ernie says this thing will flow 1,000 hp if I needed it to. Says they use a 5/8" siphon tube compared to a 3/8" tube used in the NOS brand bottles. Pretty sure he said 5/8".
You hear a lot of things from people about some valves not flowing as much as hi-flow valves and whatnot. My other bottles are NOS bottles w/ the 45° handle and hi-flow valves.
Bottles are all about the orifice and the dip tube. You can take the handwheel off, then loosen and remove packing nut and SEE how big orifice is. Also watch from opening and see how high it lifts. If it's not far enough, you can usually make some simple mods to help it.
But for YOUR application Chip and how much you spray.......anything that is NOT a medical grade valve will flow just fine
Moparts official power adder thread - 05/28/1609:18 PM
6-71 Supercharger/harmonic dampener question
Hey guys, seeing we don't have the "Forced Induction" page here anymore, I hope those running 6/8-71 blowers can help guide me in the right direction?
1969 440/RB 6-71, I'm running a narrow 2 groove accessory crank blower aluminum spacer pulley to have PS/water pump and alt, along with the 3" belt drive, drive ratio is 1 to 1 (34 tooth approx 6" dia. IIRC)question is the balancer, run a new stock internal/neutral unit or a fluid unit?, if so, what brand/style?...cost is no issue, just quality/correct application is.
I feel the added weight along with the increase in tension and leverage on the crank snout may not be ideal for a factory style dampener?, or am I over thinking this?
I would like the dampener thickness to be in relation to the factory thickness due to space/alignment issues
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 05/29/1603:22 AM
Never run a factory dampener with a blower. They come apart with the rapid accel and load put to them with a big roots. The debate has gone on and on about blower engines using only a hub vs running a proper dampener. I would personally run a dampener on any engine I would build for myself. Many engine guys smarter than I will tell you a hub will do all you need as long as the blower belt stays on.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 06/03/1612:24 AM
I keep hearing EFI is the way to go on a Procharger build. What direct port systems would you recommend for a blow through BB Mopar setup? Is Fast the only game in town? THANKS
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 06/03/1601:36 AM
Originally Posted By DAYCLONA
6-71 Supercharger/harmonic dampener question
Hey guys, seeing we don't have the "Forced Induction" page here anymore, I hope those running 6/8-71 blowers can help guide me in the right direction?
1969 440/RB 6-71, I'm running a narrow 2 groove accessory crank blower aluminum spacer pulley to have PS/water pump and alt, along with the 3" belt drive, drive ratio is 1 to 1 (34 tooth approx 6" dia. IIRC)question is the balancer, run a new stock internal/neutral unit or a fluid unit?, if so, what brand/style?...cost is no issue, just quality/correct application is.
I feel the added weight along with the increase in tension and leverage on the crank snout may not be ideal for a factory style dampener?, or am I over thinking this?
I would like the dampener thickness to be in relation to the factory thickness due to space/alignment issues
Thanks Mike
You didn't mention it, but are you upgrading the snout keyway? And I thought a 3" cog style belt didn't need a lot of tension in a mid power application, therefore not over stressing/loading the snout with leverage, correct, anybody? I'm leaning towards a procharger solution, but they suggest I use a big serpentine, since my application will see some road race, and with the constant quick up and down, they think the serp will be more forgiving.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 06/04/1604:05 PM
Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
Bottles are all about the orifice and the dip tube. You can take the handwheel off, then loosen and remove packing nut and SEE how big orifice is. Also watch from opening and see how high it lifts. If it's not far enough, you can usually make some simple mods to help it.
But for YOUR application Chip and how much you spray.......anything that is NOT a medical grade valve will flow just fine
What good is a 1/2" dip tube if the orifice is only .312"?
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 06/06/1601:17 PM
Originally Posted By 4406forPOWER
I keep hearing EFI is the way to go on a Procharger build. What direct port systems would you recommend for a blow through BB Mopar setup? Is Fast the only game in town? THANKS
I would look at Holley dominator and Fuel tech. those seem to be what evryone is using these days.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 06/16/1604:45 PM
In reply to the balancer, ATI makes the best 1 in my opinion, I run a hub, but plan on a ATI Damper setup. I haven't had any issues yet + add extra keyway as mentioned earlier
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 06/16/1605:27 PM
Anyone know much about mechanical fuel injection tuning? Had dual 1150 HP dominators on it, then converted to E85,& now mechanical injection E85, got base tune seems rich , blubbers then go's like hell, probably need to adjust spool in b.v. again & count amount of turns again.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 06/18/1605:36 PM
1st attempt at making a pass, 1 of my Holley black pumps locked up during burnout, still had 5.5 psi. of f.p. so I went for it, blew the tires off, 1st - 2nd - 3rd, so fast I was barely able to shift before it hit the limiter, good lord, changed gear since then, had 4.88 on a spool W/33x16.5 M/T drag slicks @8 psi in them,...now have 4.10's W/ trak pak- (35 spline upgrade ect, Dana 60) now I'm worried about; I used a pro gear (guess its softer material for drag slick hard hitting shock ect) & I installed Richmond factory 4.10 ring & pinion,... Other pic is "bug" catcher vs. "bird" - I wish I'd have kept the bug hat, I hooked a friend up with it, would've been nice to see performance difference between the 2 on my application. & yes guys I agree, the tech info & peeps with knowledge has dropped off significantly, & it saddens me, built my car thru these MoPar forums.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 06/20/1607:54 PM
Wow,i can't believe fye- no comment, no help with my car/entity combo, gearing, also have traction issues with axle wind-up ect.. need help & this is the most dead I've seen this site, very unfortunate,so much "really good technical info" here too...
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 06/20/1611:50 PM
It's summer time, traffic slows way down. Sounds like you have a handle on what your doing. I'm an EFI guy, mechanical is not something I'm good at. Sounds like you need to lean it out a pill
Re: Moparts official power adder and EFI thread - 06/23/1602:56 AM
For a custom home made EFI injector rail, which would be a better treatment, hard clear anodize for future possible E-85 use, or a ceramic silver chrome header coat to reflect heat? Not sure if ceramic covers much of the inside for any e85 resistance, if it even has any, in the first place. This a slant six turbo application, rail is mere inches away from and above the exhaust manifold.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 06/23/1603:58 AM
Originally Posted By moparbob498
Anyone know much about mechanical fuel injection tuning? Had dual 1150 HP dominators on it, then converted to E85,& now mechanical injection E85, got base tune seems rich , blubbers then go's like hell, probably need to adjust spool in b.v. again & count amount of turns again.
Did you have your system flowed? I switched from dominators to mechanical and my throttle response went from lame to insane
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 06/23/1604:14 AM
Originally Posted By moparbob498
Wow,i can't believe fye- no comment, no help with my car/entity combo, gearing, also have traction issues with axle wind-up ect.. need help & this is the most dead I've seen this site, very unfortunate,so much "really good technical info" here too...
What are you using for axle wind up now? I run caltracs, it seems to handle it. I switched to glide with a with a 1.69 gear and leave the line with 0 degrees of timing bring power in over 3 seconds
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 06/25/1606:59 PM
Addition of another crank key. Adding blower to my small block setup and plan on adding another crank key. What size should I plan on? Another stock key or something bigger? If bigger what size?? Thanks, Max
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 06/27/1601:59 AM
Twin turbo sizing for a 400 stroker? not sure on the route of 451, 471 or a 499. Left the diesel truck world and going back to gas. 1100+hp is the goal on pump gas/ e85 mix.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 06/27/1604:52 AM
My 470 worked real well in that hp range with a pair of old precision 72mm compressor wheels and GTQ turbine wheels. Those turbos cost about $700 each.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 06/27/1609:33 AM
Just a quick question, To mount a NOS bottle inside the drivers compartment is there anything special needed to have it inside ??? I mean like a blow off valve, down tube thru the floor etc. A friend wants to install it but he has no room in the trunk or anywhere beside the passenger side floor board. Thanks, David
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 06/27/1602:29 PM
Originally Posted By His and Her 69's
Just a quick question, To mount a NOS bottle inside the drivers compartment is there anything special needed to have it inside ??? I mean like a blow off valve, down tube thru the floor etc. A friend wants to install it but he has no room in the trunk or anywhere beside the passenger side floor board. Thanks, David
I believe you just have to have the blow down tube run down through the floor.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 06/27/1603:56 PM
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Originally Posted By His and Her 69's
Just a quick question, To mount a NOS bottle inside the drivers compartment is there anything special needed to have it inside ??? I mean like a blow off valve, down tube thru the floor etc. A friend wants to install it but he has no room in the trunk or anywhere beside the passenger side floor board. Thanks, David
I believe you just have to have the blow down tube run down through the floor.
Correct, solid mount and blow down tube installed.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 07/04/1601:20 AM
Originally Posted By TRENDZ
My 470 worked real well in that hp range with a pair of old precision 72mm compressor wheels and GTQ turbine wheels. Those turbos cost about $700 each.
what size headers did you end up using? Send me a message if youd like.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 07/04/1604:29 PM
Originally Posted By Scat
Twin turbo sizing for a 400 stroker? not sure on the route of 451, 471 or a 499. Left the diesel truck world and going back to gas. 1100+hp is the goal on pump gas/ e85 mix.
A pair of Borg Warner S366's would work great on that engine and would easily meet your HP goals with room to grow if you keep it 400CI.
If you go the 499CI route, I would look for a pair of 76mm turbos.
Assuming this is more of a stock block, lower budget setup?
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 07/04/1605:24 PM
Billet main caps, girdle, rods, half filled and so on.. Just plan on for heads finding a set of used ported something aluminum. Going with a blow thru carb for now but will be intercooled. Already have a full billet trans with a manual valve body and lock up. Cutting the cummins bellhousing off for a big block ultra bell. I had a 900hp cummins in my chassis but was way to dirty for the street. With the cummins in the 4wd chassis it was 4770lbs without driver...
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/01/1610:47 PM
Single bar plate ???
Monte, tested twice now and the results ? Single bar plate won't pick up above a .116 jet. I'm using a trash can, -6 feed line. Is the bottle valve the restriction ? I'm using OLD nos 10 lb bottles with the "straight" hi flow valves, not the angled ones. Car went 5.30 but won't go more than 132.88. So far best 60 is only 1.28 creeping up on the progressive and almost no launch curve with the "new" MT 275 , not the pro
Tuneup is .082 fuel, .116 nitrous(tried .126 no better, lowered fuel psi same A/F ) Timing going down the track 22, b1 mc with softened chambers. A/F is usually 12.8 to 13.2 Straps are showing no heat, but adding .5 of timing showed no gain in mph so I took it back out.
I know you will have more questions, but this is all I can think of. I'm running ultra street so I Ned to go at least 140 to 145 to be competitive.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/03/1603:28 AM
The plate is likely maxxed out. Even with a trashcan, a single bar plate will only pass about 1500 lb/hr tops. Now guys can claim whatever for HP, but stuff flows what it flows. Is your trashcan a .156 or .170
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/03/1604:10 AM
The trash can is a .175
I'm still using standard -6 braided line, not the "large" ID line. I was going to switch to .500 orifice bottle valves and as short of a large ID -6 line as possible.
Like I said, the ultra cars at Cecil are almost all going 137 - 145 so I've some mph to find. Still have 4.10 in the rear and leaving in second (1.48) I was considering 4.29 but I want to max out the plate first
I can run a double cross with a -4 line, is that a better set up?
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/03/1604:20 AM
A single bar plate is a single bar plate and they just flow what they flow. Nobody makes a "magic" plate. The obvious answer is a larger bar with more and bigger holes......BUT it doesn't work that way. Companies make plates with 1/4" bars but they flow no more. Has to do with back pressure on the bar. More engineering in a plate than people think.
What I usually do for that class is use a max ported Trashcan with no jet. Take the jet holder fitting out and just run a straight number 4 line from solenoid to plate. This lets if flow all it will flow with no restriction.
Larger line and bottle valve won't hurt, but it likely won't help either. A .250 orifice solenoid also gets you a bit more flow, but you can't progress it.
And YES, a Crossbar with a number 4 line will pass more.
Don't know anything much about your motor, but I would bet the cam is holding you back some as well depending on who ground it for you. 132 is definitely light on MPH. I have 18* smallblocks that run that mph on a single bar plate, so something is off somewhere. If you still had the -1s..........well that's about the same head as a good 18* small block, but those MCs done right should move a lot of air
There is not 10 mph in your tune up.........I guarantee you that and you know your 60ft is way soft
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/18/1605:11 PM
When building a nitrous motor, is it better to use a bigger intake (extra plenum & runner volume)? Meaning an intake manifold that's too big for the motor in N/A form. Seems like I've always heard the more plenum volume the better w/ nitrous.
I'm using a plate system, but it doesn't seem like this would matter as much w/ a fogger?
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/22/1605:02 AM
i am thinking of running a 2 plate stacked 2 stage system. the 2nd plate would be a completely seperate system except for the fuel. i use a dedicated fuel supply mounted underhood with a holley blue pump. i would run the fuel for the 2nd kit off the other side of the regulator. am i asking for trouble?
the first hit would be a 150 hp hit off the line with a 250 hp hit in 2nd gear.
motor is built for nitrous with forged pistons and proper ring gap.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/22/1604:40 PM
Question on spraying a small shot with a "loose" NA converter.
493" street engine running a 727 and a 9.5" Dynamic converter. Converter flashes to ~4500. I am looking to hit it with a small shot, 100-150 HP. Am I going to blow right through the converter?
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/22/1604:46 PM
Originally Posted By fasteddie
i am thinking of running a 2 plate stacked 2 stage system. the 2nd plate would be a completely seperate system except for the fuel. i use a dedicated fuel supply mounted underhood with a holley blue pump. i would run the fuel for the 2nd kit off the other side of the regulator. am i asking for trouble?
the first hit would be a 150 hp hit off the line with a 250 hp hit in 2nd gear.
motor is built for nitrous with forged pistons and proper ring gap.
I was told not to do that by guys that know a lot more about nitrous than me. You need a separate regulator for the 2nd kit. Not only to set the pressure for just the 2nd kit, but b/c of a supply issue at the regulator.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/22/1604:47 PM
Originally Posted By OUTLAWD
Question on spraying a small shot with a "loose" NA converter.
493" street engine running a 727 and a 9.5" Dynamic converter. Converter flashes to ~4500. I am looking to hit it with a small shot, 100-150 HP. Am I going to blow right through the converter?
From my experience, not really. It will raise your stall, but I'd run it.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/22/1605:14 PM
Thanks Chip, When I sprayed my smallblock I had a tighter converter and it increased the stall quite a bit. I will give it a shot. I don't think it'll hurt anything, it just might not be optimal.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/23/1604:08 AM
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Originally Posted By fasteddie
i am thinking of running a 2 plate stacked 2 stage system. the 2nd plate would be a completely seperate system except for the fuel. i use a dedicated fuel supply mounted underhood with a holley blue pump. i would run the fuel for the 2nd kit off the other side of the regulator. am i asking for trouble?
the first hit would be a 150 hp hit off the line with a 250 hp hit in 2nd gear.
motor is built for nitrous with forged pistons and proper ring gap.
I was told not to do that by guys that know a lot more about nitrous than me. You need a separate regulator for the 2nd kit. Not only to set the pressure for just the 2nd kit, but b/c of a supply issue at the regulator.
ok, thanks. Thats the kind of info I was looking for. Should I put in a "Y" after the blue pump to another regulator, or a "Y" off the tank and run a separate pump and regulator
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/23/1602:37 PM
fasteddie...I'd put a Y after the pump and use another regulator. One blue pump should be able to feed both systems easily.
The only issue I've heard of using a small pump like a Holley Blue deadheaded for the nitrous side is that when the solenoids open, the pump can't recover from the pressure drop as quickly as a big pump can and you can have a lean condition at the hit. Now, having said that, I know a lot of folks who have run setups like yours for years and never had an issue. I ran one too for a while, one dedicated holley blue to feed just a 150 shot, and never had any trouble w/ it. It'd be ideal to have a return system so the fuel isn't sitting there banging against the solenoid until it opens.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/28/1603:42 AM
I wanted to thank everyone for the help i get on a regular basis from this site Ive always got solid info and a bunch of different opinions. Im making good progress on my build and now that the suspension is done and my placement of the turbos will work ive moved back into the engine bay to work on plumbing the turbos in. I decided to change how I initially had the hot side run to free up some space and I think its alot cleaner now. So I just wanted to share a pic
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/28/1604:49 AM
No intercooler Im running e85 i do have a meth injection setup wired up in the car but I never used it with the turbo slant, but it will get plumbed in just in case. Im going to get the wastegates mocked up later this week I had to order a couple SS transition to mount them. The downpipes are going to be tricky but I think ill beable to run it how I planned and if all else fails I'll stub them up thru the tops of the fenders like Trendz suggested.
Save your money and your plugs. Just buy an "ottoscope" read the plugs and use them again. I use this one...http://www.medsupplier.com/adc-diagnostix-5211V-standard-veterinary-otoscope.aspx
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/29/1611:22 PM
are these plugs a good plug to run on a cheater plate with a .055n/.045f at 5psi,timing 30 total .ngk r5671a-7 or r5671a-8.motor is a dodge 340,9.8 compression iron head.currently running champion rc9yc at .025 gap.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/30/1603:54 AM
Originally Posted By hp340nos
are these plugs a good plug to run on a cheater plate with a .055n/.045f at 5psi,timing 30 total .ngk r5671a-7 or r5671a-8.motor is a dodge 340,9.8 compression iron head.currently running champion rc9yc at .025 gap.
We us the Ngk in my sons magnum 360 but we use -9 , watch the heat on the straps. Better to use a colder plug if possible
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/31/1604:14 PM
Maybe my question from earlier got overlooked?
When building a nitrous motor, is it better to use a bigger intake (extra plenum & runner volume)? Meaning an intake manifold that's too big for the motor in N/A form. Seems like I've always heard the more plenum volume the better w/ nitrous.
I'm using a plate system, but it doesn't seem like this would matter as much w/ a fogger?
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/31/1606:57 PM
Originally Posted By n20mstr
Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
You can't progress that solenoid
OK SO WHATS THE BEST OPTION?
.375 SOL WITH 10-15 DEGREE LAUNCH RETARD FOR ?? 1.5 OR 2 SEC THIS SOLENOID PROGRESSES BUT FROM 50% ON , I KNOW NOT A LOT OF CONTROL OF IT
.175 TRASH CAN AND PROGRESS IT FROM 20 30% ?
A solenoid with a pressure balanced plunger, which those .375s are.......will never consistently pulse at any percentage. Don't care what NX tells you.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/31/1606:58 PM
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Maybe my question from earlier got overlooked?
When building a nitrous motor, is it better to use a bigger intake (extra plenum & runner volume)? Meaning an intake manifold that's too big for the motor in N/A form. Seems like I've always heard the more plenum volume the better w/ nitrous.
I'm using a plate system, but it doesn't seem like this would matter as much w/ a fogger?
A nitrous motor of any kind always responds to plenum volume
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/01/1602:22 AM
Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
Originally Posted By n20mstr
Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
You can't progress that solenoid
OK SO WHATS THE BEST OPTION?
.375 SOL WITH 10-15 DEGREE LAUNCH RETARD FOR ?? 1.5 OR 2 SEC THIS SOLENOID PROGRESSES BUT FROM 50% ON , I KNOW NOT A LOT OF CONTROL OF IT
.175 TRASH CAN AND PROGRESS IT FROM 20 30% ?
A solenoid with a pressure balanced plunger, which those .375s are.......will never consistently pulse at any percentage. Don't care what NX tells you.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/06/1607:49 AM
Originally Posted By turbo toad
Im putting together a 470 low deck 4.375 bore with a set of TT ill be running E85 what are you guys running or your recommendations for piston rings? Compression ratio of 9.5 and boost levels between 10 and 15 psi.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/06/1607:59 AM
Originally Posted By TRENDZ
Timing is everything. Cold air is better than warm air. Timing is everything. Don't use exhaust gaskets on turbo cars. Timing is everything. Small compressors cause higher back pressure than large ones. Timing is everything. Transmissions don't like turbos. Timing is everything. Use the strongest wrist pins you can get. Timing is everything. More head bolts are better than less head bolts. Timing is everything. It's better to spend big money on engine management for a junk engine, than it is to put junk controls on an expensive engine. Oh... and timing is real important too.
Lot of truth here.. except I run copper gaskets.. lol
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/06/1601:15 PM
Originally Posted By HOTMOPR
Originally Posted By turbo toad
Im putting together a 470 low deck 4.375 bore with a set of TT ill be running E85 what are you guys running or your recommendations for piston rings? Compression ratio of 9.5 and boost levels between 10 and 15 psi.
hellfire
Hotmopr ive heard hellfire rings are hard on a stock blocks cyclinder walls?
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/06/1603:53 PM
I 2nd the hellfire rings. I had no issues with bore wear from them. I'm sure you lose a bit of power over a low tension ring set, but the high tension follows the bore taper better after a few years Seriously though, I wouldn't put one of these together without these rings.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/07/1604:50 PM
Originally Posted By turbo toad
Originally Posted By HOTMOPR
Originally Posted By turbo toad
Im putting together a 470 low deck 4.375 bore with a set of TT ill be running E85 what are you guys running or your recommendations for piston rings? Compression ratio of 9.5 and boost levels between 10 and 15 psi.
hellfire
Hotmopr ive heard hellfire rings are hard on a stock blocks cyclinder walls?
Hard as compared to what? Ductile iron factory rings? Sure, probably, but this is now a performance motor and you have to seal it up. You put the ring in it you NEED to do the job. Plus they are not harder on stock block bores than they would be any other cast block
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/10/1603:49 PM
Originally Posted By moparborn
So if you don't mind what are the newest, latest, best mods for a turbo carb. What has work best for you and what has not.
In my opinion its diffently the power valve tech,it's what makes a good blow thru carb work properly. Especially once you start making over 12psi of boost, if you can control when the power valve opens thats most of the battle in tuning a blow thru carb. Ive modified standard power valves that are adjustable that open under boost and also used what blow thru guys call a crutch setup which introduces regulated air pressure from a air pump ,activated off a hobbs pressure switch into the PV cavity to force the power valve open with good results. And ive also used something similar to what CSU uses which uses boost pressure in the float bowls and spring tension to control when that power valve opens up fully, that boost pressure is introduced via the vent tubes. The carb I just built for my new setup has one similar to what CSU uses but was designed by SCS PERFORMANCE and can be adjusted to open from 2psi to 10psi there my carb part dealer and great to work with. Theres more to it then just that but if you can get over that hurdle any other changes are no different then tuning a standard carb. Just my 2 cents.......
Strictly over timed. The amount of nitrous didn't break the motor, it was the tune. Too much power for the parts would have shattered a piston or booted a rod out. A piston with the top half burned is strictly too much timing
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/10/1609:17 PM
Do you think the failure to regap the rings played into this too Monte with the 2 stage 300 hp hit? I would think with it being a used engine that itself would open the ring gaps some
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/11/1602:38 AM
Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
Do you think the failure to regap the rings played into this too Monte with the 2 stage 300 hp hit? I would think with it being a used engine that itself would open the ring gaps some
Not likely. The motor made 500 hp on the hose. Would you think a 500hp N/A motor needed way more gap than a 300hp motor?.......NO. They just strictly missed the timing and it was on cylinder 2. Number 2 is ALWAYS the first problem child to raise it's hand on most motors. He never really explained how they were coming up with their timing numbers, but if he was trying to apply some "formula" per HP, that simply doesn't work.
On a side note, I found some of David's comments on nitrous and tuning familiar. We have had several conversations over the years about nitrous and tuning. Sounded like he was reading from my cliff notes..........LOL!!!
Chad at Bangshift did a somewhat similar test a few years ago with a stock bottom end motor, but it was a 350. His test was jetting. He utilized the SAME nitrous jet for all pulls. But on the fuel side, went from "old" NOS chart jet, to square, to what we suggest now and finally to one of my "race" tunes. I coached him on timing for each change and there was a 150hp swing from first to last pull, with SAME nitrous jet. That motor made a good bit over 600hp and didn't kill any pistons or push a head gasket out. Chad finally quit as he didn't really want to break it and thought the power level was too close to breaking the crank or a rod.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/11/1603:11 AM
Thanks for the info. I was hoping to make my first hits with nitrous this year but ended up in the hospital July 23rd and still not over it. According to my piston manufacture I was going to be limited to around a 250 MAX hit on my old NA pistons. That would have allowed me to get my feet wet some but now i'm just aiming for next year. I have the rods and pistons and will be sending my Calias crank out to have it resized to chevy sizes.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/14/1603:30 AM
Okay question. In a total junk track situation on small tires I use the progressive to leave. Where do you start? What's more effective, starting percentage or ramp time? I have been fighting it a little bit. I have a Leash controller
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/15/1610:02 PM
Originally Posted By SpareParts
Okay question. In a total junk track situation on small tires I use the progressive to leave. Where do you start? What's more effective, starting percentage or ramp time? I have been fighting it a little bit. I have a Leash controller
We delay the hit from .3 to .5 and turn on at 20% with around a 1.8 ramp which typically gets us down about any track...60' will go from a low teen to mid 20's !!
To short of ramp time will blow the tires off as the ramp gets to steep !!
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/16/1603:14 PM
Thanks Gary, I was thinking about a delay but am scared it could cough. I currently have a dual ramp in it holding 20% for .75 then ramped to 100 in 1.2 I think it was. I may try a delay tomorrow for the first round of KOTS
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/16/1606:26 PM
Originally Posted By SpareParts
Thanks Gary, I was thinking about a delay but am scared it could cough. I currently have a dual ramp in it holding 20% for .75 then ramped to 100 in 1.2 I think it was. I may try a delay tomorrow for the first round of KOTS
Yep we flat line it at first but not really sure for how long as my son is the tuner and I'm quite sure he tries stuff I;m not aware of,Lol.
We always leave on full timing then pull as necessary !!
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/22/1604:10 PM
Had a chemically enhanced best last night. Only spraying a 052 jet through a plate, so child's play compared to what most of you guys are playing with. My first time out with the bottle on this car, and I had a few questions regarding nitrous...
Does DA influence nitrous performance similarly to how it does an NA application. DA was ~2500 last night, and NA performance was off 0.1-0.15 compared to "normal" ~1500ft air, so should a I expect the same shift in better air on the bottle?
Ran a 11.80 @ 112.4 NA, Wallace estimates 410 rwhp at 3800#
Setup is a Performer RPM plate/noids, Bottle behind drivers seat, -6 line to noid. Short braided lines from noids to plate.
I filled up with 100 unleaded (no lead to to EFI/O2 sensors), and pulled 8 deg with a NGK 7 plug. I know, super conservative. 950psi in the bottle. Picked up 0.55 and 7.5 MPH. Plug indicated more timing was needed, added 2 degrees. Picked up another 0.16 and 1 mph, ~515rwhp. 11.08 @ 120.7...so close to 10's, haha
The jetting charts that show a 52 jet being ~100hp seem correct. Plug indicated it could almost use more timing still, fuel looked good, ~12.5 AFR. The lanes were moving real slow at that point, so I packed up and went home.
I am tee-ing off the EFI line for the fuel solenoid, 58 psi pressure, with a 28 jet. It might be a little fat at the hit, but I have a separate AFR target set in the EFI software, so it can make some corrections.
The converter is a fairly loose 9.5", ~4500 flash. The fallback seemed ~250 rpm higher than NA, which seems reasonable.
I know a dedicated low pressure fuel system for the N2O would be preferred, and add another degree of tuning with fuel pressure. I see a lot of street guys running pump gas in the main tank and race gas in the dedicated cell, and I suppose if you tune based on that and keep it consistent, then it would be OK, but I would think having all the fuel the same would be preferred. Any thoughts on mixing fuels?
Datalog attached of N2O run and NA compared to N2O run
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/22/1608:02 PM
Good question Monte. I have plenty of injector and fuel pump, and I have calibration input for adding/removing fuel when N2O is activated, however, the input is a % shift, not a fixed flow, so I was struggling with how to figure out the best way to equate flow to a %, but I think I have it figured out now.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/22/1608:37 PM
Should be easy, even if you don't have direct power adder tables.......Lets use some random numbers. Let say your total fuel flow is 400lb/hr and you need an extra 100lb/hr for the nitrous. That's a 25% increase in total fuel flow. Now of course you will likely need to ramp that in based on time, rpm, something........or have a separate fuel table with 25% added starting at any rpm above where nitrous comes on
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/26/1606:23 AM
To recap, what AFR am I looking for on nitrous? My notes say 12.8-13.0 should be really close. I'm questioning this after one of the been there done that types told be target should be high 11's, low 12's and quoted a HotRod magazine article.
Anyone?
I do understand that the engine should run it's best number with the safe AFR with or without the nitrous.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/26/1604:31 PM
To my fellow mopar forced induction enthusiasts....
As I near completion of my procharged small block build, I am having some conflicting thoughts on how to go about getting her ready for tuning. On a brand new build do you guys generally ease into the boost by tuning for lower boost levels first and then moving up to higher, or do you normally just throw all the boost you plan to run at the motor, tune it once and be done with it?
I was thinking of ordering a pulley that will put me somewhere around 7-8psi at first to be a little more on the safe side with the new setup and then swapping to a 15 or so psi pulley once I know that is all working well. I don't know if it's really worth it though, or if I should just save money and time by going straight to the 15psi pulley.
Here is what I'm building up: 69 340 block bored .030 over. Speed Pro pistons (machinist is cutting a small dish into them, he insists there will be more than enough meat to keep it safe from detonation), factory forged crank, main studs, hughes girdle, Eagle H beams, ported w2 econo flowing around 300cfm, head studs and cometic gaskets ported indy 360 intake, solid roller (somewhere in the 250 intake duration range) front mount intercooler, D1SC procharger. Car will run E85 through Fitech 8 fuel injection. A1000 fuel system. I'll be controlling timing through the FItech system using a locked out MSD Billet distributor. FItech has built in wideband for tuning. Hoping we can get the C/R down to 9.5 tops, hopefully a little less. My goal is to be able to touch 9's in my full interior E body with 4:10 rear once I get the tuning/chassis all worked out. I just don't want to blow it up trying and I know I'll be close.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 01/08/1712:50 AM
The Hellcat supercharger uses a electric throttle body as a bypass when not building boost. A regular supercharger uses a vacuum bypass I believe. I am looking for ideas on what would be needed to either run the electric bypass or retrofit a vacuum unit.
The pic is showing the bypass itself for reference.
Thanks for any help as this is the last hurdle to make our swap work.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 02/09/1704:28 AM
Anybody running a 118 turbo? I just picked one up for my 582 hemi. I know it's not the ideal combo but I want to try it. Any feedback would be much appreciated.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 02/09/1706:46 AM
Originally Posted By 65 Hemi
Anybody running a 118 turbo? I just picked one up for my 582 hemi. I know it's not the ideal combo but I want to try it. Any feedback would be much appreciated.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 02/09/1703:43 PM
Originally Posted By 65 Hemi
Anybody running a 118 turbo? I just picked one up for my 582 hemi. I know it's not the ideal combo but I want to try it. Any feedback would be much appreciated.
Pretty sure Jason Digby runs a 118 mm turbo on his Predator motor...the black dart that reset the leaf spring world record a few weeks ago in the 4.20s 1/8 mile.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 04/21/1709:48 PM
If anyone wants to share some Monte nitrous tunes, post em up. Like jet sizes and such. I never messed with it much but now wish I had one of his setups for my Valiant.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 04/21/1710:06 PM
Originally Posted By FastmOp
If anyone wants to share some Monte nitrous tunes, post em up. Like jet sizes and such. I never messed with it much but now wish I had one of his setups for my Valiant.
The purpose of Monte or any of the nitrous companies was/is their knowledge of cylinder heads, compression ratio, camshaft profiles, etc. which dictate jet mapping, fuel pressure and timing. There is no one size fits all.
Monte had done my work for many years and I will miss him!!!
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 04/24/1703:19 PM
When wiring a progressive, which wires are the main ones to be concerned w/ as far as interference?...the grounds to the solenoids? The 12v activation?
I've always heard the Edelbrock controllers are REALLY sensitive to interference, but work great. I'm just using an older 2 dial controller for now, but really like the Leash products I've used in the past (on other people's cars) and will most likely end up getting one of their controllers when funds allow.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 04/25/1701:26 AM
Originally Posted By FastmOp
If anyone wants to share some Monte nitrous tunes, post em up. Like jet sizes and such. I never messed with it much but now wish I had one of his setups for my Valiant.
Induction Solutions has recommended jetting. It's a start. Much better than the old nos jetting. I end up taking fuel jet out from there.
I can't preach take plenty of timing out to be safe enough. If you are not detonating its harder to hurt it. Rich tunes are not safer tunes. It's nearly impossible to hurt something running too lean. Ever blow your racing dirt bike up running out of gas? Didn't think so. Now if you are detonating like crazy and stuff is about to melt, well you might hurt it. But, lack of fuel didn't do this. Detonation got it.
On new stuff start with a really lean hit. Run engine timing as low as possible and with a nice lean tune in carb. Pull plenty of timing. 2 per 50hp and some extra. Another 4 if you have a small quench.
To tune from here. Trim fuel pressure to see if you pick up mph. If not put it back. Take another degree of timing out. If it don't pick up put it back. Add a degree of timing, try again. Key thing if the mph quits picking up put it back. New plugs pushed in the lanes and cut off at end of pass will give you the best reading. Plenty of this info on Induction solutions website. I run a little leaner than they recommend but great place to start.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 04/25/1706:41 PM
Originally Posted By jyrki
What would be a good starting point jetting for a fogger with E85? Looking for 28 jets for the nitrous, but what size fuel?
With Induction Solutions help, I ended up at 0.030n and 0.028f jet on E85, 925psi Nitrous pressure. Fuel is usually around 5.75-6.25psi flowing depending on the air. We get some big weather changes here in update NY between daytime in July the cold November nights. I agree with Leon, start conservative with timing and fuel, tow up and back to get a good plug reading. My hoagie seems to like around 20deg in a 12:1 528ci, flat tops with Indy SR heads for reference.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 05/04/1705:03 AM
Best tuneup that worked for me...
Plate 70n 60f 5.0 fuel flowing Direct port .036n .026f 4.5 flowing Timing with it all on.... 8*
Reason for the low timing was the cam was not that nitrous friendly.
The real tuneup is give the motor what it wants, the right amount of fuel and timing. You need to be able to tell what it wants. Too much timing always hurts parts. So always retard it first, if adding timing doesn't pick up mph....you went the wrong way ! Baby steps
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 05/04/1705:04 AM
Originally Posted By challenger451ci
Originally Posted By jyrki
What would be a good starting point jetting for a fogger with E85? Looking for 28 jets for the nitrous, but what size fuel?
With Induction Solutions help, I ended up at 0.030n and 0.028f jet on E85, 925psi Nitrous pressure. Fuel is usually around 5.75-6.25psi flowing depending on the air. We get some big weather changes here in update NY between daytime in July the cold November nights. I agree with Leon, start conservative with timing and fuel, tow up and back to get a good plug reading. My hoagie seems to like around 20deg in a 12:1 528ci, flat tops with Indy SR heads for reference.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 05/05/1705:32 AM
Originally Posted By n20mstr
Originally Posted By challenger451ci
Originally Posted By jyrki
What would be a good starting point jetting for a fogger with E85? Looking for 28 jets for the nitrous, but what size fuel?
With Induction Solutions help, I ended up at 0.030n and 0.028f jet on E85, 925psi Nitrous pressure. Fuel is usually around 5.75-6.25psi flowing depending on the air. We get some big weather changes here in update NY between daytime in July the cold November nights. I agree with Leon, start conservative with timing and fuel, tow up and back to get a good plug reading. My hoagie seems to like around 20deg in a 12:1 528ci, flat tops with Indy SR heads for reference.
How fast has it gone ?
Lol
Not even remotely fast in your world! 3500lb streeter that sees mostly "highway" time. Was that 0.036 tune you mentioned above on E85 or gas? That sounds CLEAN for the corn!
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 05/06/1707:26 PM
If this thread was given it's own forum traffic would most likely pick up. Not being able to post "new" topics to search by is a little gitchy. Replying in one loooong thread there is no way to tell what topics are covered without reading the whole thing.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 05/08/1703:42 AM
Originally Posted By challenger451ci
That's makin time! I'm hoping for .50's this year with my barge. I think it's gonna need a little more jet depending how early I can get it all in.
Here is a Monte trick, hit it as hard as you can for the first two tenths, then pull your launch timing out. Monte said, everything dead hooks for two tenths...
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 05/11/1703:27 PM
Question about progressive controllers...
I realize that I should probably pull timing out to manage traction after the hit, but this is just a simple street car with a small plate kit. I am running radials, and track prep is not the greatest, when I have it come on right away, it would spin for 30 ft or so. I have a NOS mini progressive on the car, would it be worth it to try to delay, or progress the hit? The track is normally packed, I'm lucky to get 2-3 passes in, so I'd like to get an idea of where I should start, then I can dial it in from there.
I should probably upgrade the rancho shocks on the back, but I'd like to work with what I have for now. I think I might also go back to slicks just because of the quality of track prep here...
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 05/11/1707:16 PM
I had a friend that was running deep 9s in the 80s that would tune his hit with different length hoses between the plate and solenoids. Looked kinda goofy with a coiled up hose, but he would always get that car down the track. He had several hose sets that were staggered to sharpen, or soften the hit.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 05/11/1709:18 PM
hmm, can't get much simpler than that...
I did do that on another car actually, part by design, part by accident. The N2O noid was under the dash, then I had a ~2' line running through the firewall, same pill in that car hit much softer.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 05/11/1709:38 PM
Originally Posted By OUTLAWD
Question about progressive controllers...
I realize that I should probably pull timing out to manage traction after the hit, but this is just a simple street car with a small plate kit. I am running radials, and track prep is not the greatest, when I have it come on right away, it would spin for 30 ft or so. I have a NOS mini progressive on the car, would it be worth it to try to delay, or progress the hit? The track is normally packed, I'm lucky to get 2-3 passes in, so I'd like to get an idea of where I should start, then I can dial it in from there.
I should probably upgrade the rancho shocks on the back, but I'd like to work with what I have for now. I think I might also go back to slicks just because of the quality of track prep here...
What type ignition box do you have? If MSD programmable use launch retard or gear retard. If you decide to use a progressive I suggest the Leash progressive, simple to wire and use.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 05/14/1707:00 PM
Originally Posted By n20mstr
Originally Posted By challenger451ci
That's makin time! I'm hoping for .50's this year with my barge. I think it's gonna need a little more jet depending how early I can get it all in.
Here is a Monte trick, hit it as hard as you can for the first two tenths, then pull your launch timing out. Monte said, everything dead hooks for two tenths...
I've been thinking about this a bit...He was talking about timing that you'd pull in addition to what you pull for the nitrous(step retard), right? The car does fall on it's face if the initial progressive is set too low on the off chance I'm trying to get it down bare asphalt. Probably because I'm pulling all the timing at the hit, then ramping any launch retard back in over time. It's a balance between hitting the tires hard enough and keeping it planted, especially on an untreated surface.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 05/15/1712:01 AM
A tire needs to be hit and held there to work, especially a radial or a slick on a marginal surface. Hit it hard and hold the tire down with the shock. So....hit it hard but what works well is to hit if for a tenth or two, then pull your launch retard and ramp it in. This helps hit the tire, keeping it there is the job of your shock. To go "fast" you need a good double adj shock. Tight compression keeps the tire planted. What also helps a lot is keeping the front suspension off the limiter. That's either a lot of travel or a tight shock ext setting or a combination of both.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 05/15/1702:43 AM
Good info! Thanks for the help! I finally broke down and bought a set of Viking DA's all around. Can't wait to get them on the car and start playing around. I really only got one hit on the new motor last year so this is going to be a learning curve for me.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 07/21/1703:54 AM
Originally Posted By SpareParts
Originally Posted By n20mstr
Ran a 5.40 @ 138.96 on 4 cyl
I'm getting good at cyl head R&I
How did you go about this discovery? That's still fast as hell
Ok, just one nipped piston, and some other issues. Changed the carb and it's real fat. Wire for my rpm switch for electric shifter fell out of the msd tach conn/output, banged the limiter. Got all the parts and ready to start reassembling tomorrow . Hope to make a decent showing at monster Mopar next week.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 07/24/1705:38 AM
Good luck Tony!!
MSD Grid question! After my big wheelstand I turned the car off. I go to fire it up after new pan and stuff and I have no spark. Any idea?? This was running, it never died
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/15/1706:46 AM
Turbo guys- w2 exhaust ports, what can I use for headers? Guessing flipped magnum manifolds as a cheap option won't work and I really don't want to cut up my tti's
Officially need to move away from nitrous...it ranges from 10-16$ per pound here, just not a realistic power adder anymore, even though it's my favourite one.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/15/1704:37 PM
I've seen $6 to $8 a pound here, when you can find it. The supply is getting better, but not where it was. My supplier is only giving mother bottles to their big dealers...since I only get one at a time for my own use, I won't be able to get one until the supply gets closer to normal again.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 08/26/1701:59 PM
Yea its outta hand here...Nitrous is by far my favourite power adder, but now that full time adulting has become my life I cant justify spending almost $400 every time I need to fill up my 3 10lb bottles. Would rather put that money towards more permanent power that I only have to pay for once!
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/01/1704:28 PM
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
mshred...holy crap! If nitrous cost me that much, I'd be changing too!!! Wouldn't take long to pay for itself.
Yea man, it's brutal...makes the thought of staying nitrous pretty hard to follow through with.
I'm toying with different avenues for next year...motor is coming out whether I refresh it and keep it or change directions. Now just have to make up my mind about what I want and works for me, meaning what can I ACTUALLY afford lol
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/27/1704:02 AM
They use large amounts of nitrous for MRI machines. They add sulfur to the gas so that people won't inhale it. Not sure what it would do to high compression WOT pass.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/27/1704:15 AM
"Here is a Monte trick, hit it as hard as you can for the first two tenths, then pull your launch timing out. Monte said, everything dead hooks for two tenths... [/quote]
Wellllllllllllll Not everything. Think Brad and I may have a little more tuning to go
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 10/28/1707:22 PM
Fought an issue most of the summer with the car just not pulling over 7000 rpm. Still ran in the 4's five weekends in a row. I started trying new stuff and broke my streak but did tie the old best then ran a new best. All my friends were telling me it's breaking up at 300 foot. But I just was not looking in the right spot. I found it last night. I know it's fixd now 😎
My season is winding down with just a few weeks left and bad weather today.😕 I know it's going to fly now . I just need some good conditions.
I ran my car against the Memphis Street Outlaws a few weeks back. Hope it makes it on the new show. I am not a street racer but got asked to go so I went. JJ daBoss was top notch, it was for the filming of the 8th episode of his new show. I ran his wife in his Ziptie Nova.
I been running a lot, I have some more vids but with photobucket not working I'll just post some vids to youtube. Watch them if you want.
Re: Moparts - Monte Smith Official Power Adder Thread - 10/28/1710:28 PM
I ran my car against the Memphis Street Outlaws a few weeks back. Hope it makes it on the new show. I am not a street racer but got asked to go so I went. JJ daBoss was top notch, it was for the filming of the 8th episode of his new show. I ran his wife in his Ziptie Nova.
any video of the run against the Ziptie Nova? Cool videos
Re: Moparts - Monte Smith Official Power Adder Thread - 10/28/1711:56 PM
We were not allowed to vid runs. They had it covered from a few angles. She won chase is a race. I had two mics on me and several cameras on the car. She crashed against me.
Was a great experience. Once in a lifetime kind of thing.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 01/13/1805:20 PM
Morning - just two quick questions on a twin plate system
I have two compucar 100 hp fixed plates atop my tunnel rammed 383 (Took years to find a match for the first one I bought )
My questions for those running two plates:
First - How many solenoids are you running ? Two fuel and two nitrous ? One of each per plate ? Or have you plumbed one fuel and one solenoid to power both plates ?
Second - since I have two fixed 100hp plates - I'm going to assume I am not adding 200 hp to the engine. Maybe I am wrong.
I'm aware these fixed plates aren't the greatest and I could get a lot more out of an adjustable set. I plan to upgrade with the next engine
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 01/16/1807:13 AM
my 2c...
I would call Compucar.
Otherwise it will be tuned by fuel pressure so if it was me I'd put both plates on one solenoid for each side (n20/fuel) of the system and start at 5.0psi and do a short test hit. Due to the lack of jets you can't really change the nitrous to fuel ratio much other than by adjusting the pressure. Once you get a handle on that you can start bumping the timing back in. I'd be running some 110 or C12 and start around 22* total advance.
As far as the "HP" rating of the kit, it's hard to say. Either way you are adding x amount of fuel/nitrous x 2 so yes it is additive in a linear fashion. A true "200hp" nitrous shot will definitely get your attention. Don't be surprised if ends up making more like 250-300 hp if your combo like nitrous.
For the solenoids I'd uses whatever they offer for the NOS Big Shot or Race Fogger. Definitely go with -6 lines for future expansion.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 01/24/1803:06 AM
I'm new to the blower world and in the final stretch of getting mine ready to run. I will be asking some questions here to try to prepare myself for the launch. Blower is 6-71 on a smallblock.
The first question has to do with the idler pulley. Most pictures I see of setups has the idler pulley running on the teeth side of the blower belt. Is this necessary? It would appear to do just as good a job running on the smooth side of the belt. In fact I need mine to run there to obtain needed clearance. Is there any problem with this configuration?
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 01/25/1807:29 PM
Boost Gauge hookup? What size line is adequate to hook up a boost gauge. I have some braided brake lines which would look good but the hole in the fittings is tiny. Would they be OK for a boost gauge connection?? Thanks, Max
Never mind I noticed that the input to the gauge was extremely small so anything should work Max
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 01/29/1802:06 PM
Originally Posted By Jeremiah
my 2c...
I would call Compucar.
Otherwise it will be tuned by fuel pressure so if it was me I'd put both plates on one solenoid for each side (n20/fuel) of the system and start at 5.0psi and do a short test hit. Due to the lack of jets you can't really change the nitrous to fuel ratio much other than by adjusting the pressure. Once you get a handle on that you can start bumping the timing back in. I'd be running some 110 or C12 and start around 22* total advance.
As far as the "HP" rating of the kit, it's hard to say. Either way you are adding x amount of fuel/nitrous x 2 so yes it is additive in a linear fashion. A true "200hp" nitrous shot will definitely get your attention. Don't be surprised if ends up making more like 250-300 hp if your combo like nitrous.
For the solenoids I'd uses whatever they offer for the NOS Big Shot or Race Fogger. Definitely go with -6 lines for future expansion.
I did call compu Car. They weren’t very helpful considering it’s an “obsolete” system I get it- a tunable plate would be preferred....
I think i get what what you’re saying -the plate is fixed- give them the biggest flow at the solenoids you can (such as the big shot)
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 01/31/1807:19 AM
Originally Posted By NTOLERANCE
Originally Posted By Jeremiah
my 2c...
I would call Compucar.
Otherwise it will be tuned by fuel pressure so if it was me I'd put both plates on one solenoid for each side (n20/fuel) of the system and start at 5.0psi and do a short test hit. Due to the lack of jets you can't really change the nitrous to fuel ratio much other than by adjusting the pressure. Once you get a handle on that you can start bumping the timing back in. I'd be running some 110 or C12 and start around 22* total advance.
As far as the "HP" rating of the kit, it's hard to say. Either way you are adding x amount of fuel/nitrous x 2 so yes it is additive in a linear fashion. A true "200hp" nitrous shot will definitely get your attention. Don't be surprised if ends up making more like 250-300 hp if your combo like nitrous.
For the solenoids I'd uses whatever they offer for the NOS Big Shot or Race Fogger. Definitely go with -6 lines for future expansion.
I did call compu Car. They weren’t very helpful considering it’s an “obsolete” system I get it- a tunable plate would be preferred....
I think i get what what you’re saying -the plate is fixed- give them the biggest flow at the solenoids you can (such as the big shot)
I'm thinking you can tune with fuel pressure, timing and plug heat range just fine if you are way conservative with timing epsecially. If you hear the engine breaking up get out of it immediately something is not happy. Definitely run it on a minimum of 110 race gas.
On the solenoids the good thing about the NOS stuff is you can always use them with e 100-300hp plate later on.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 02/01/1806:24 PM
Thanks FastmOp, I'm going to be close in some areas but I think I can make the 1/2". Would you happen to know the answer to the idler pulley question above? Thanks, Max
Re: Moparts - Monte Smith Official Power Adder Thread - 06/13/1806:21 PM
Ok, I'll start by saying I have a 588ci Indy Maxx motor as it sits now it's approximately 1100hp on alcohol and all motor. I've absolutely decided to go with a wet nitrous oxide system. My thinking is to spray with C12. My question is in leading up to this decision their was and has been a debate as to what should be used to spray the nitrous with gas or alcohol? What thoughts do you all have on this subject? Thanks in advance. John T.
Re: Moparts - Monte Smith Official Power Adder Thread - 08/18/1804:18 AM
EDIT...
Very interesting and great info.
"Here is a Monte trick, hit it as hard as you can for the first two tenths, then pull your launch timing out. Monte said, everything dead hooks for two tenths..."
Re: Moparts - Monte Smith Official Power Adder Thread - 10/03/1806:46 PM
who do I go to, too get a manifold with fuel rails and bosses installed in the manifold ? and are fuel rails adjustable to where the injectors are located ? trying to take my B engine FI and really don't want to go with a carb look a like induction due to my turbo aspirations. need help starting this adventure.
Re: Moparts - Monte Smith Official Power Adder Thread - 10/18/1804:00 PM
I want to put Nitrous on my stock bottom end 318.Of course there are those who say that they will help me pick up my pistons afterward.Please offer some wisdom from those of you that have done it.I am bracket racing and waht to run 13.50.My set up is 318 with j heads with 188 valves.Performer intake and 600 edddy carb.I run 15.60 in the 1/4 mile.Car is a 1972 plymouth duster.Trans is 727.Rear end is 8 and 3/4 with 3.55 sure grip.I will use a 125 power shot system.
Re: Moparts - Monte Smith Official Power Adder Thread - 10/18/1805:56 PM
Originally Posted By Crabra
I want to put Nitrous on my stock bottom end 318.Of course there are those who say that they will help me pick up my pistons afterward.Please offer some wisdom from those of you that have done it.I am bracket racing and waht to run 13.50.My set up is 318 with j heads with 188 valves.Performer intake and 600 edddy carb.I run 15.60 in the 1/4 mile.Car is a 1972 plymouth duster.Trans is 727.Rear end is 8 and 3/4 with 3.55 sure grip.I will use a 125 power shot system.
I'd opt for an adjustable kit, the jetting spread on a lot of kits, especially older ones, are just plain wrong. My car was always consistent on a small shot, but you have to keep tabs on a lot more variables, so I'd look into a pressure controlled bottle heater, and have the kit come on with a WOT and window switch to be able to dial it in consistently.
Price on N2O is still up a little by me, that would just mean for a pricey day at the track, especially if you are going rounds
Re: Moparts - Monte Smith Official Power Adder Thread - 10/18/1809:02 PM
Originally Posted By Crabra
I want to put Nitrous on my stock bottom end 318.Of course there are those who say that they will help me pick up my pistons afterward.Please offer some wisdom from those of you that have done it.I am bracket racing and waht to run 13.50.My set up is 318 with j heads with 188 valves.Performer intake and 600 edddy carb.I run 15.60 in the 1/4 mile.Car is a 1972 plymouth duster.Trans is 727.Rear end is 8 and 3/4 with 3.55 sure grip.I will use a 125 power shot system.
if using a power shot (non adj plate) the best thing will be to use a regulator on the fuel side. Start at 5.0 flowing fuel psi, then take 6* timing out of it. The best way to tune it is read the plugs and watch the mph on the time slip. Reduce fuel .5lb at a time, or add .5* timing. Never at the same time, always do these steps independent of each other. If you don't see the mph improve, go back. Follow these safe tuning steps , you should be able to put literally hundreds of nitrous passes on that 318 as long as its got a sound ring seal (not an oil burner) youll be fine. My son had a stock junkyard magnum in his car and he prob put hundreds of nitrous passes on it. He would double enter classes and put 20 or more passes on it in one weekend. Good luck and be safe !
Re: Moparts - Monte Smith Official Power Adder Thread - 03/06/1905:27 PM
Originally Posted by FastmOp
It's been two years today since Monte has passed.
We all miss your intelligent and thought out help Monte. Hope you have the GTX in the sky flying
HOW TRUE....TIME FLIES. I still sometimes think about asking him stuff, but then realize he is gone. Im sure a lot of people would not be at the level they are at without his "no nonsense" straight shooter advice. Like it or not he was usually correct. Race in peace my friend.
Re: Moparts - Monte Smith Official Power Adder Thread - 04/20/1904:59 AM
Question what are you guys running for intake elbows and throttle bodied on a single 4500 intake with turbo or Procharger? Hoping to build around 2000hp with a Gen 2 Hemi
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 05/28/1903:57 AM
Originally Posted by Blucuda413
I'm new to the blower world and in the final stretch of getting mine ready to run. I will be asking some questions here to try to prepare myself for the launch. Blower is 6-71 on a smallblock.
The first question has to do with the idler pulley. Most pictures I see of setups has the idler pulley running on the teeth side of the blower belt. Is this necessary? It would appear to do just as good a job running on the smooth side of the belt. In fact I need mine to run there to obtain needed clearance. Is there any problem with this configuration?
Thanks, Max
Does not matter which side,they say to use the smooth side for more wrap around the top pulley. I would like to converse with someone running a blown hemi on gasoline.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 07/20/1902:37 PM
I want to buy a pair of dominator plates,the middle size would be perfect as I only need a 50 to 100 shot. Are there any plates to stay away from?? Using N2O for intercooling........
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 04/18/2008:45 PM
My data logger is showing me IAT's of 165* or more where my power just goes flat. I want to intercool with nitrous and a plate will not work because the throttle blade hits the crossbar at 1/3 to open.I want to install a pair of fogger nozzles in the 1 inch spacer plates. Has anyone used juice to intercool??
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 04/28/2003:00 AM
FWIW we installed the extended fogger nozzle in the carb adapter than bolts to the blower housing spraying wight into the rotors. After I get my plumbers licence I will practice social distancing with a few test hits on the empty practice no prep road. Nozzles can flow up to 175HP each,I wll put 50/60 HP under each carb. Hope we are out and about by Carlisle in JULY
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 02/10/2106:03 PM
Anyone adding a power adder over the winter or turning there [censored] up ?
I found about 10mph in the 1/8 last year so I'll be changing my car setup trying to take advantage . Hope to leave under more power and let it eat out the top end.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 02/10/2106:08 PM
Originally Posted by FastmOp
Anyone adding a power adder over the winter or turning there [censored] up ?
I found about 10mph in the 1/8 last year so I'll be changing my car setup trying to take advantage . Hope to leave under more power and let it eat out the top end.
Not necessarily turning it up, but mine is definitely making more power since Induction Solutions "fixed" a problem w/ my old system. Had a bad leaking spray bar that was really screwing up the distribution. I've now been quicker and faster w/ the same amount of nitrous I used before, more delay, more ramp time, and a lot less timing. Now it's time to keep the front down and get after it!
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 02/10/2109:11 PM
Originally Posted by FastmOp
Anyone adding a power adder over the winter or turning there [censored] up ?
I found about 10mph in the 1/8 last year so I'll be changing my car setup trying to take advantage . Hope to leave under more power and let it eat out the top end.
I jetted up to the 250 shot from 200 at the last day of the season and ran a 10.01. A tick faster than the previous best of 10.33. This was with 55 lbs. in the trunk that I'm not sure we even needed so very happy with that on just the second pass with that jetting. Probably going to kill about 100 lbs. or so to get us solidly into the 9's.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 02/16/2104:14 PM
What rpm window switch is everyone using for their nitrous systems? I've been running w/o one, but thinking I should put one in. The little MSD 8956 only handles 1.5 amps...nowhere near what the solenoids pull. I have a Leash progressive which uses the (-) negative side for activation, if it matters.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 02/16/2105:10 PM
Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
What rpm window switch is everyone using for their nitrous systems? I've been running w/o one, but thinking I should put one in. The little MSD 8956 only handles 1.5 amps...nowhere near what the solenoids pull. I have a Leash progressive which uses the (-) negative side for activation, if it matters.
Yes make sure you have some window switch, nitrous on a limiter is not good as exhaust ports are usually too thin to handle combustion ( i found this out the hard way a few times) and you will crack exhaust ports and they start leaking water..... Any way, just use the MSD rpm switch to trigger a relay that supplys your activation power thats all. Use the MSD rpm switch for the ground side of the relay
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/02/2104:52 PM
Thinking about this summer and some of the heads up races I will be attending. Things are getting tougher every year with the turbo guy's showing up. Used to do really well but now am first or second round fodder! Got to thinking if my stuff is still up to snuff after 10 years. Went from a cheater kit to the Big shot upgrade(Big shot plate and super pro shot solenoid).. I notice that they still sell this upgrade but wondering if there is something better other than going to a fogger system. Maybe a newer better plate or solenoids. What got me wondering is that my tune up for 350 hp does not seem to go any faster than the 300 hp one(see attached tune up sheet). Is the Big shot plate up to the job?? This is the same even after a solenoid rebuild and cleaning plate and nozzles and hoses. System is controlled by rpm /timer off transbrake.
I am happy with the performance of the 300 shot but need to go bigger. Hoping not to have to go to 2 kits. 572 motor b body. mid 9's on motor mid to high 8's on 300 shot. Thanks Mike
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/02/2108:39 PM
Originally Posted by 70satelliteguy
Thinking about this summer and some of the heads up races I will be attending. Things are getting tougher every year with the turbo guy's showing up. Used to do really well but now am first or second round fodder! Got to thinking if my stuff is still up to snuff after 10 years. Went from a cheater kit to the Big shot upgrade(Big shot plate and super pro shot solenoid).. I notice that they still sell this upgrade but wondering if there is something better other than going to a fogger system. Maybe a newer better plate or solenoids. What got me wondering is that my tune up for 350 hp does not seem to go any faster than the 300 hp one(see attached tune up sheet). Is the Big shot plate up to the job?? This is the same even after a solenoid rebuild and cleaning plate and nozzles and hoses. System is controlled by rpm /timer off transbrake.
I am happy with the performance of the 300 shot but need to go bigger. Hoping not to have to go to 2 kits. 572 motor b body. mid 9's on motor mid to high 8's on 300 shot. Thanks Mike
The best thing I can tell you is to send it off to Induction Solutions (regardless of brand you have) and they will flow it and make sure it is functioning correctly.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/24/2105:31 PM
Originally Posted by 70satelliteguy
Thinking about this summer and some of the heads up races I will be attending. Things are getting tougher every year with the turbo guy's showing up. Used to do really well but now am first or second round fodder! Got to thinking if my stuff is still up to snuff after 10 years. Went from a cheater kit to the Big shot upgrade(Big shot plate and super pro shot solenoid).. I notice that they still sell this upgrade but wondering if there is something better other than going to a fogger system. Maybe a newer better plate or solenoids. What got me wondering is that my tune up for 350 hp does not seem to go any faster than the 300 hp one(see attached tune up sheet). Is the Big shot plate up to the job?? This is the same even after a solenoid rebuild and cleaning plate and nozzles and hoses. System is controlled by rpm /timer off transbrake.
I am happy with the performance of the 300 shot but need to go bigger. Hoping not to have to go to 2 kits. 572 motor b body. mid 9's on motor mid to high 8's on 300 shot. Thanks Mike
probably the best plates to use will be and not in any particular order.... NX billet cross single entry Induction Solutions Holey Moley Nitrous outlet Stinger series
All of those plates are billet and do not use the old style brass tubes. The weakness in the older plates is the epoxy may come loose or the bars may not be clocked 100% in the proper position. All of those plates can go from 200 to 600+ HP so most likely the last plate you may ever need. Different solenoids will different HP/PPH levels Looking at your tune up sheet....IF you have a .116 orifice nitrous solenoid, yea its not picking up anymore over that .110 jet. You could look into a trashcan solenoid .178 orifice, but most likely you should step up to a better plate also.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/25/2101:01 PM
Bought the Induction solutions Billet Saturday night special plate kit to replace my old Big shot kit. Has not arrived yet. Not sure if the plate is the Holey moley or not? Supposed to have tune up flowed with plate . Thanks n20mstr for the reply. Mike
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 06/12/2102:42 PM
Originally Posted by 70satelliteguy
Bought the Induction solutions Billet Saturday night special plate kit to replace my old Big shot kit. Has not arrived yet. Not sure if the plate is the Holey moley or not? Supposed to have tune up flowed with plate . Thanks n20mstr for the reply. Mike
Its been a while. How has the new plate worked out for you ??
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 07/11/2105:02 AM
Random question for you guys. I have a mild 440 in my '68 Fury with ported 906's, 0.590 cam, flat top pistons and a TM7 intake with a 4 hole 1" spacer and an 850 DP on it.
I'm looking to spray it to get it into the mid 11's. I eventually want to fuel inject it and use a plate kit as a dry nitrous shot only and let something like a Holley Sniper control the additional fuel. I understand a ~150-200 shot should be safe on the motor as long as I use window switches and a WOT switch to keep it from activating when I don't want it to. I also understand I'll have to pull ~10 degrees of timing to keep it from detonating.
My question is what plate/kit would everyone recommend for this if I'm starting from nothing, for use with a carb for now, and then if I convert to EFI, can the wet kit be run as a dry kit only with no fuel through the fuel spray bar as long as the FI system is supplying the additional fuel?
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 07/20/2104:40 PM
Originally Posted by Blusmbl
Random question for you guys. I have a mild 440 in my '68 Fury with ported 906's, 0.590 cam, flat top pistons and a TM7 intake with a 4 hole 1" spacer and an 850 DP on it.
I'm looking to spray it to get it into the mid 11's. I eventually want to fuel inject it and use a plate kit as a dry nitrous shot only and let something like a Holley Sniper control the additional fuel. I understand a ~150-200 shot should be safe on the motor as long as I use window switches and a WOT switch to keep it from activating when I don't want it to. I also understand I'll have to pull ~10 degrees of timing to keep it from detonating.
My question is what plate/kit would everyone recommend for this if I'm starting from nothing, for use with a carb for now, and then if I convert to EFI, can the wet kit be run as a dry kit only with no fuel through the fuel spray bar as long as the FI system is supplying the additional fuel?
Thanks!
Cant beat Induction Solutions. The plates the sell now are billet, so no more delicate brass spray bars. Sat night special might be good for you. THey are a little pricey, BUT they are flowed when you get them and they offer some great tech support. I would call them. Honestly unless your car is super heavy or has the wrong converter in it, i would say your going to be in the 10's with nitrous. Have you ran it at all now on motor? and what converter is in it?
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 07/20/2104:42 PM
Originally Posted by Blusmbl
Random question for you guys. I have a mild 440 in my '68 Fury with ported 906's, 0.590 cam, flat top pistons and a TM7 intake with a 4 hole 1" spacer and an 850 DP on it.
I'm looking to spray it to get it into the mid 11's. I eventually want to fuel inject it and use a plate kit as a dry nitrous shot only and let something like a Holley Sniper control the additional fuel. I understand a ~150-200 shot should be safe on the motor as long as I use window switches and a WOT switch to keep it from activating when I don't want it to. I also understand I'll have to pull ~10 degrees of timing to keep it from detonating.
My question is what plate/kit would everyone recommend for this if I'm starting from nothing, for use with a carb for now, and then if I convert to EFI, can the wet kit be run as a dry kit only with no fuel through the fuel spray bar as long as the FI system is supplying the additional fuel?
Thanks!
Yes you can use a "wet" plate as a "dry" plate, just cap off the fuel side....OR add another nitrous solenoid and now you can use it as a two stage dry plate , or feed both sides (two jets) with one large nitrous solenoid and a good nitrous controlller . Plenty of options
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 07/21/2103:34 PM
Originally Posted by n20mstr
Cant beat Induction Solutions. The plates the sell now are billet, so no more delicate brass spray bars. Sat night special might be good for you. THey are a little pricey, BUT they are flowed when you get them and they offer some great tech support. I would call them. Honestly unless your car is super heavy or has the wrong converter in it, i would say your going to be in the 10's with nitrous. Have you ran it at all now on motor? and what converter is in it?
Thanks Tony! It's run 12.70's for the previous owner but I haven't personally had it at the track yet and don't know if there was much left in it. Taking it to Roadkill nights for the street race next month and if it is ok after that will probably run it at the track in September on motor only to make sure the tune is clean before doing anything else with it. It's got 4.30 gears and I believe a 9.5" ultimate converter that flashes to ~4500. It's a super heavy car tho, 4200# without a driver. I'm a little worried since it's so heavy it's going to blow through the converter on the spray, but I guess there is only one way to find out.
Sounds like Induction Solutions is the way to go, especially with Monte gone. Good to know that a wet kit could be turned into a dual stage dry kit if needed too!
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 07/21/2104:00 PM
Originally Posted by Blusmbl
Originally Posted by n20mstr
Cant beat Induction Solutions. The plates the sell now are billet, so no more delicate brass spray bars. Sat night special might be good for you. THey are a little pricey, BUT they are flowed when you get them and they offer some great tech support. I would call them. Honestly unless your car is super heavy or has the wrong converter in it, i would say your going to be in the 10's with nitrous. Have you ran it at all now on motor? and what converter is in it?
Thanks Tony! It's run 12.70's for the previous owner but I haven't personally had it at the track yet and don't know if there was much left in it. Taking it to Roadkill nights for the street race next month and if it is ok after that will probably run it at the track in September on motor only to make sure the tune is clean before doing anything else with it. It's got 4.30 gears and I believe a 9.5" ultimate converter that flashes to ~4500. It's a super heavy car tho, 4200# without a driver. I'm a little worried since it's so heavy it's going to blow through the converter on the spray, but I guess there is only one way to find out.
Sounds like Induction Solutions is the way to go, especially with Monte gone. Good to know that a wet kit could be turned into a dual stage dry kit if needed too!
Sounds good. The best thing you can do, call Induction solutions, Get some type of playback tach OR gopro/phone to record the tach. That tach playback you can get with Montgomery at Ultimate to really dial in the converter. Good luck!
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 07/21/2109:26 PM
Originally Posted by n20mstr
Sounds good. The best thing you can do, call Induction solutions, Get some type of playback tach OR gopro/phone to record the tach. That tach playback you can get with Montgomery at Ultimate to really dial in the converter. Good luck!
I'll definitely give Steve a call, thank you. Will definitely plan on some type of method to record the tach too, at least before it gets fuel injected. Appreciate it!
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 10/16/2102:35 AM
Roots blower delema.....
So every time I call someone for advice on which roots blower for a 528 Hemi, the recommendations get more expensive and bigger. So like most on here, I do not have an unlimited budget. In fact, I am not even sure its adequate, but that just part of the game I guess.
So I figured a 528 Hemi to keep it as small as possible with a 4.5 bore block. Was thinking of doing an 8-71, maybe a 10-71 and twin throttle body sniper.....
Well that escalated to a full blown Holley Dominator system and two sets of injectors with a bird catcher...Not cheap...But one of the things I want to do is a 5 gallon front mounted tank on E85 and rear fuel cell on 93 and switch pulleys for race or street.
And the other thing is the recommended blower keeps getting bigger....The guy at Alky Digger recommended a 14-71...I was like wow! No way that will clear the cowl and the windshield..
If I had the budget I wanted, I would put a Whipple 8.3L on it, but those are $9100 just for the squirrel box.
So what does Moparts crowd recommend for a street/ strip blower? Cause if this keeps up, I might just do NA for now with 9:1 compression and the blower cam in it.
This is a picture of the previous owners 472 Hemi with a 6-71 on it.....Note how tight to the windshield it is. I am going to move the engine forward some before I am done.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 11/07/2106:41 AM
How much power do you want to make on pump fuel? How much mechanical compression ratio does the motor have? how about intercooling it for more boost to make more power when speeding the blower up?
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 11/10/2105:50 PM
Originally Posted by FastmOp
Whats the intention of the build. Why street? You already have a street car. You should try going fast, it's fun
9.48 isn't fast? My Duster has gone that quick on a mild pass in the 1/4 at 140mph, and 6.002 at 115.4mph in the 1/8th....
Looks like my build answers were just made for me this week. Been waiting on payment for my car, before purchasing a new block and such, and they raised the price $1k to almost $6k for an iron block...I have decided to go 400 stroker with an 8-71 MFI on methanol for now....and try not to blow it up. We will see how far we can push it. I can build the entire short block for less than the price of a Hemi block and we know how to make them live at 800hp, so we will see. I am going to gather up all my parts and take them down to the shop.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 11/10/2106:58 PM
If I was you I would use a good 10:71 blower instead of the smaller 8:71 so you can spin it (the10:71) slower to make the same amount of boost with the smaller blower at the same engine RPM which will lower the intake air temps allowing more compressed air volume into the motor, more air, more power
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 11/11/2105:11 PM
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
If I was you I would use a good 10:71 blower instead of the smaller 8:71 so you can spin it (the10:71) slower to make the same amount of boost with the smaller blower at the same engine RPM which will lower the intake air temps allowing more compressed air volume into the motor, more air, more power
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 11/16/2105:08 PM
Originally Posted by Dragula
Originally Posted by FastmOp
Whats the intention of the build. Why street? You already have a street car. You should try going fast, it's fun
9.48 isn't fast? My Duster has gone that quick on a mild pass in the 1/4 at 140mph, and 6.002 at 115.4mph in the 1/8th....
Looks like my build answers were just made for me this week. Been waiting on payment for my car, before purchasing a new block and such, and they raised the price $1k to almost $6k for an iron block...I have decided to go 400 stroker with an 8-71 MFI on methanol for now....and try not to blow it up. We will see how far we can push it. I can build the entire short block for less than the price of a Hemi block and we know how to make them live at 800hp, so we will see. I am going to gather up all my parts and take them down to the shop.
Not really in this day and age. A blower car running 5.90 ain't that impressive anymore.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 11/17/2103:38 AM
Originally Posted by FastmOp
[quote=Dragula][quote=
Not really in this day and age. A blower car running 5.90 ain't that impressive anymore.
My 2850 lb. with me in it E85 single four barrel N/A S/P car runs 8.86s in the 1/4 mile at 150.+ MPH I'm sure there is a little more left in it as I have not tried to max tune it yet
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 03/02/2208:30 PM
Originally Posted by Gtxxjon
HNY to all on power adders.
That was gonna be the name of my new Mopar. Plymouth Adder but not as catchy as Dodge Viper lol.
So after reading some of this thread the 528 hemi blower motor build looks doubtful now?
So how’s about a twin turbo then...
I also have the low comp 9 to 1 4.500 bore pistons.
Is twin turbo pipe work a ‘bridge too far’?
Best wishes from Limey John
No, actually, its still in play....I bought a 4.5" bore Hemi block, and the car is out of the chassis shop, but racing season is coming, and I am shifting my attention back to my Duster. I have a 512/400 going together for that car, and then I will get back to this one. But a 528-540 Hemi with a roots blower is the plan...
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/18/2204:04 PM
Random nitrous question- on plate kits, is there any benefit to changing the line length from the N20 solenoid to the plate? I stole GY3's idea and mounted my solenoids at the back of the motor so they're less conspicuous, but with the spray bars on the front and rear of the plate it means the line lengths are different. The fuel side has a short run, it's only about 5" of hard line from the solenoid to the plate, but the nitrous side goes under the intake, it's a 15" long braided line.
I also have a window switch calibrated in the progressive, minimum rpm was 3500. I am thinking of bumping that down to 3000. Would there be any ET benefit of switching the plate orientation so the nitrous side is the short run, and 5" instead of 15"?
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/19/2212:39 PM
Shorter line on the nitrous side will make it "hit" harder. Before progressives, some people used to tune w/ different length lines to adjust the launch somewhat. Never done it myself, but heard about it. Since you have a progressive, I don't think you'd see much by changing it.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread - 09/19/2203:44 PM
Thanks- I'm guessing it isn't worth much either, but figured I'd ask. At the track I didn't have any ramp in the progressive, but I did use it for Roadkill Nights, although this year the surface was so good I probably didn't need it there either!