Doing a cam swap for a customer, Rockers dont oil now

Ok, Went from a comp cam hydrailic flat tappet to a Hughes engines Hydro Roller and he wanted a OE look so i swapped from the roller rockers to crane rockers to clear stock Valve Covers. Its a 440 source stroker, stealth headed engine. I Also had to change to a -.050 lock and space the springs to get to the correct spring rate per instructions. Also running Hughes bananna grooved shafts and the holes are down and pointing to the exhaust side. I think thats correct, but theres no instructions with the shafts. So Heres the problem,

I prelubed the engine and didnt see any signs of oil up top, nothing,

Im pretty frustrated so I just shut the lights off and went home. Tomorrow with a clear head im gonna pull the rocker bolts that feed the top end and roll it over to see if the oil flows out into the shafts.

Did I install the shafts wrong? Are the bolts blocking the oil to the shafts? I did have to shim the shafts up to get geometry corrected.

If theres something I missed Id appreciate any info...

Kinda makes me feel pretty dumb cause Ive done this same kind of swap dozzens of times.


Thanks

Kasey

you have to turn the motor over. Rotate the crank (ie: cam) and watch the oil fly. DAMHIK

Do the shims have a hole big enough to flow oil around the shaft bolt?
Also, realize that the shafts only get oil in two camshaft positions if the engine has stock oiling with no cam/bearing mods.

Ive been rolling the engine over and even fired it up for 3 second bursts and nothing, I know the cam has to rotate to feed oil.

Also The shims are Hughes aluminum shims that are ovaled at the hole so they are supposed to clear. I can see down the hole and see nothing looks to be in the way.

I dont know if theres any oiling mods, but I dont think so.

The oil only flows when the hole in the cam is lined up with the holes in the bearings. That is a fairly narrow window so it is easy to miss. Typically the passenger side oils when the engine is at TDC split overlap position but I suppose the cam mfg can drill the holes wherever they want. If you didn't double check the cam before it went in then you might have to just turn the engine over very slowly until you find the spot.

I know this, but thank you, I figured that if the engine was running even for a few seconds that id see some signs of oil... Tomorrow im gonna remove the bolts on those two locations, kill power and fuel and roll it over to see if theres oil headed up top.

I know you stated that this was just a cam change. do you know if the customer had any problems before this, that might have brought about this change. have you inspected the old parts for any problems, just saying. I've had customers not tell me the whole story, until I find evidence of something.

Oil flows at TDC #6 firing and #8 firing. Put the slit on zero on the tab (#6 firing) & preoil and back up the crank 3/4 or a turn (CCW) & preoil again. measure/cut a strip of paper 17.082" with your calipers and use it on the dampener as a ruler to go back 3/4 turn or drop the intergear/dist back in & go CCW till the rotor goes back 3/4 of a circle (or on #8 plug wire location) then preoil again. see if that works for you

THANKS ROBERT!!

Helpful info right there!!

The thing ran great prior 72sat, No issues at all cam looked great coming out, only reason for change was dialing the cam down and went from a 6 pac to a 4bbl to make the car more correct looking for car shows.

Have you started to back track yet... pull the
bolt that feed, next is the head gasket.. does
it have the hole in both.. then your down to the
cam bearings..... but first do you have a pressure
gauge in the oil port.. see if you have pressure
first... you know they arent oiling.. start back
trackin

A pre oiler is a must here IMO. Not only does that hole need to line up to oil but its got to fill the passage and the rocker shaft in that short amount of time before you see any coming out. Both the cams I have used recently are grooved for full time rocker oil.

Mike, I didnt change the cam bearings, the head gaskets, the only thing different is the cam, rocker shafts, rocker arms, and changed the spring locks to -.050 to gain rocker clearance.

Im gonna roll the engine over to #6 TDC and prelube to see if the oil gets up top.

Well, guys, I pulled the 2 bolts that go into the oil feed holes on the heads, rolled the engine over and I could see oil start to feed the shafts.

I decided to fire it up, ran it for a while and saw oil dribbling from the top holes on the crane ductile rockers. But is didnt see oil from the pushrod cup oiler holes. I might be gun shy here, I shut it down and pulled the rockers off the passenger side. No galling, no discoloring, and no issues but the cups worry me. YES i blew through the oil holes in the rockers they are a new set the customer had found.

Im gonna cut a set of valve cover tops off and run it at various RPM for a few minutes. Do big block mopars have lower top end oiling than a small block? I have more experience on the small blocks. Runs great, no top end noise, no other issues found so maybe im just being over cautious.

thanks

Can only speak to my motor, but I know when I primed it new without valve covers, it spewed oil all over the inner fenders in short order. It's got stealth heads and Pro-Comp Stainless bronze bushed rockers.

Did you by chance use studs to hold the shafts down and if so, are the studs almost as big as the holes in the shafts? Maybe that is where your close fit is, not allowing allot of oil past them. I have to agree that when I primed my motor, it sent plenty of oil out the rockers. I used the same shafts from Hughes along with his rockers, no issues at all.

Just in case this wasn't covered. Stock big block rocker shafts only have one hole per rocker, those holes have to be positioned down for proper oiling. I have seen this before , minimal oil to the rocker and a sure disaster coming.

As said I'd pull the dist/intergear & preoil it (CCW) with a 5/16" hex shaft and a reverseable drill. with the dampener in the right clocking and everything up top buttoned up You'll (easily) see how it is oiling. I dont see a major issue or one that cant be easily solved but this lets you evaluate WO the eng running. Holler with any news

You said you switched from flat tappet to roller, what lifters are you using? Are the lifter bores bushed? all the oil maybe blowing past the lifters. Try priming with the intake off, you will be able to see how much oil is getting past the lifters.

The shafts are down and pointed to the exhaust, they are crane rockers, and theres plenty of oil filling the shafts, I spoke with another engine builder on here and he recommended I massage the shafts to help the oil to the pushrod cup passage in the ductile iron rockers, He said he has had issues in the past with them not oiling worth a crap, so Im gonna do that and hope for the best. THe hydraulic rollers are drop in rollers, no special work needed to swap. I might make a feed hole with my die grinder on the bottom of the shafts where the oil is fed to the shafts by the heads to make sure my .060+ room I currently have is enough to do its job.

Thanks guys.

did you check the cam before you put it in to ensure it was drilled all the way through? seen a couple before where they werent. a little too late now maybe but a thought

Rapidrobert, Its oiling, its filling the shafts, I am currently modifying the rockers to aid in oiling. I spoke with another member on here who has dealt with oiling issues with crane rockers and Im going to make a channel to guide the oil to the feed holes in the rockers.

thank you for the heads up on the rocker/cup oiling as I need to check/address that myself on the circle track 360 & I mighta just assumed it was good (when there is adequate oil in the shafts) if you had not jogged my brain