Any and All Ideas on removing engine block filler ?

I have come across a block that is filled to about two inches from the deck with block filler. It is an old fill so it is the concrete looking fill instead of the more modern epoxy.

The block is.....and this hurts...a 1966 426 Hemi. Otherwise it is in great shape. No damage, standard bore and was running when it was pulled out. Lived life as a drag car only.

So, Hammer drill and masonry bits, muriatic acid or ??? Any hints, tricks, or old timers solutions appreciated.

Most likely Embeco 885, and if it is, it is in there forever. They also use it for bedding very large machine tools.

BR, Mark

Been down this road, and hate to say it but lockjaw is probably right. Muratic acid will not affect it, hammer drill will damage bores before it does anything perceptible ....why do you want it out?

Some thoughts:
1. It's a '66 Hemi block and would look nice sitting in a street car, probably go nice too. I imagine that's why the question.
2. Before you do anything else, Magnaflux or dye penetrant check the block bottom end for cracks.
3. If you have 2" of space at the top it'll probably work on the street if you pay attention.

R.

This , add an oil cooler and you should be ok for the street as long as you aren't idling in a line waiting to get into someplace for an hour .

Question though apollo , have you checked the deck height ?? Many of those drag hemis had the decks cut ... to the tune of .100 or more.

Here is the Mid-Day Update and answers to some questions.

The reason for trying to extract it was correctly answered. The block looks to be in great shape. It has a standard bore and I can get into a Hemi for a really, really good price if I can make this happen. **note** the price of a MoPar/Cummings era reproduction bare block is around $4500. I would like to get as much out as possible and drive it with no restrictions. If this were a small block Chevrolet 350, I would have made an 8 hole flower pot for my mothers front yard already.

As far as the deck height, that is a question that I did not ask , but will. Very good info and thank you for that "question to ask" that I didn't know to ask. **note** the heads are Aluminum 1974 Mopar heads and in good shape. The engine was running when torn down. Anything other than the magnaflux and pressure check on the heads to ask?

On the topic of muriatic acid. I have seen a video were concrete was dropped into a container of the acid and began to dissolve. Why would this filler not react the same way? What are the properties that make this different? I have seen a bucket of filler and it appears to be just a finer powder than that of sakcrete and just add water.

Also, I have seen where people have used muriatic to clean parts, so would a concentrated amount damage the block? Is there a time limit on exposure, etc? Again, rookie questions, I have never done that.

Is there any masonry bits, or diamond tip bits that would cut into the filler without the effects of the more violent hammer drill action. I guess more of a boring action than chipping?

I want to say thank you in advance and that I am writing this with an inquisitive tone only. I am not challenging or questioning the integrity of anything written above, I am asking to clarify what has been written. I write this because the written word carries no inflection of voice and can be taken the wrong way. I try and ask as many questions from as many different angles as possible( Technical, Scientific, etc ) to get the best understanding of how to attack a problem.

The General board sometimes gets bent out of shape when you start asking questions about what they write.

If you have intentions of using this block for yourself for a street car i don't feel you would have any major problems doing so, that being said the only thing's that I would do would be add a good oil cooler (as mentioned before) and you may look into a reverse cooling system (indy makes a plate for that) that flow's the cooled water back thru the head's first and that to me would be where the greatest amount of heat will be is in the upper part of the block, if this block is as good of condition as you say I don't personally think I would risk the physical damage of trying to remove it, to me the worse thing would be the added weight on the front of the car.Just my opinion

I ran into this problem many,many years ago and ended up (after trying everything else) with high pressure water being the hot ticket. Still no fun...

Best reason for not using muriatic [actually hydrochloric] acid for the internal concrete removal is that this acid will also effectively "lighten" your cast iron block as well. Iron [& aluminum] dissolve very well in both dilute & concentrated acids and while you may loosen some of the concrete, it will be almost impossible to neutralize & remove the acid solution from the confines of the block. Then the acid keeps on going & will start perforating the thinner sections of the cast iron....

I know antifreeze dissolves Moroso block filler over a period of a few months if the engine is a regular driver. Down side is the water pump gets trashed n the rings don't seal too well after a few over temp sessions. Everything needs good cleaning after that, radiator, heater etc...

Thank You and keep it coming with opinions.

Dartman366...I will research the reverse cooling. That makes sense in changing the flow with the coolest part of the liquid coming into the heads....and also mentioned about a heavy duty oil cooler.

Indcontrols...what type of machine did you use for pressure. A regular deck pressure washer or something specialized, About how long of a process did it take you, Also , how much of the filler actually came out?

Zooom....Roger that on the Muri-Hydro acid. I will scratch that from the list.

Rebel....how long of a process to break that filler up if I just let it soak in a barrel of antifreeze? I didn't think that stuff was that caustic. Again, Just being curious.

I agree, run it, I run a half fill on the street at 12.5-1, good cooling system and as said an engine oil cooler. Maybe E85 fuel.

Option 2, Blower, injector hat and methanol

The only concern I would have is to make sure the block filler is below the cast in bosses for the head bold holes. I had to chip some out when I had a machinist fill a block and he forgot about the bosses. That's when I found out the filler was magnetic. I used a punch and hammer and it was a pain.

Reverse cooling and an oil cooler should make your car fine if the fill is not to hi.

As already covered........if the block is that nice, use it and don't worry about the filler. Try and get it out and you will wreck the block

I bid on a filled 66 block at an auction, and dropped out against the other bidder who later told me he was going to send it to a shop in Florida that could 'sonic' clean out the filler. Never heard of that before.

Just a note on the muriatic acid. As it might eat away the hard block slowly it will also eat away at the block material at a faster rate. Also if anyone is thinking of using muriatic acid for rust removal , don't do it in your garage, the fumes will kill you before you can get out, also the fumes will rust every piece of bare metal in the garage. Do it out side with a good breeze blowing away from anything that you might like to keep, also wear rubber gloves and eye protection . I other words, muriatic acid is some bad $hit.

I think this would be the only option I would consider if I was set on removing it. I would think there should be a frequency that would deteriorate the filler without damaging cast iron.

But with that said, I probably agree with the "install GOOD oil cooler and run it" option, using a good synthetic oil for it's higher temp tolerance.

The Moroso was about 4 months old by the time the engine was assembled & running. Antifreeze was added due to the alloy heads & the chorinated tap water was harsh on everything alloy. It was noted that there was a soup in the radiator a few weeks after the run in period, so everything got flushed. Since there wasn't a cooling problem after, it never got looked at again & the engine got used. Because it had an overflow bottle & a suck back radiator cap the overflow bottle was the reference & it never looked bad. The fresh soup had jammed the rad cap up so the flow was blocked both directions. Months pass & there's the odd high temp noted on the guage but it cooled down. Eventually it turned to a horror story, the engine running like a steam train, the engine got pulled. this mud like soup was everywhere. after the big strip & clean we found the Block fill was all gone????? this was the soup & the cooling system was only filled with water & antifreeze. I think the electrolosis of the antifreeze reacted with the block fill & just ate at it till it was all gone. i dont know if soaking it would do it. i think it would need circulation.

If the filler is magnetic, then it is embeco 883 aggregate, and it will never come out...it can be drilled, but you will cause more problems.

I have run filled blocks on the street with aluminum heads, and never had problems with heat. but I never drove hundreds of miles at any one time, just blasted around town.

Mark

Thank you for the replies!!

Evil Spirit..That was very interesting so I checked into the sonic cleaning. I haven't as of yet found anyone who has a tank large enough for a engine block. Although it looks great for cleaning small parts every nook and cranny from grease , rust etc..

Rebel....Thank you for the update on the antifreeze information. I am going to try it and see. It may take the combination of antifreeze, heat and circulation. I have a few ideas.

Lock jaw...I am not 100% sure on the magnetic question. I was able to scrape some of the filler off and it didn't seem to have a magnetic quality. But, it was a small amount and I really wasn't looking that specifically. I will re-examine that soon. I can say that this was done many years ago. Late 80's possibly.

Again, Thank you for these excellent ideas and information. This is why I keep coming back to MoParts.

Bumping this back up.....

Indcontrols....What type of device for water pressure. Like a deck pressure washer or ? And how long was this process.

Rebel....How long was it before you saw any results. I have a place that can hot tank it. Do you think that would do it over the course of a few weeks...or ?

Thanks in advance for all the help.

5-6 months. if its going to work you should see something in the water in a few weeks

That's new to me, I have used MA for years on all types of steel-cast iron, never saw any metal removed, what looked like metal removed was what the rust had allready eaten. Always use outside keep in closed container.
For the OP, put a few drops in there and see what happens, never know unless tried.

I wonder if soaking in vinegar would break it down?

Well, if not at least it will be pickled.

Muriatic acid is also known as hydrochloric acid, it's what helps digest your food in your stomach.

Scare stories aside, it can be rinsed out of a block and it is used to clean scale out of a block, this is quite common. Of course if the block in question has a rusty pinhole, the acid will find it.

It is used to etch concrete. It reacts with the alkaline based cement. Will it work on block filler is a good question and depends on what the block filler is primarily made of.

The factors for metal removal are concentration, time and temperature. Increase any of them and metal removal increases.

R.

If the acid didn't at least eat away enough filler in a certain time frame (before the block started to significantly suffer), it might be hard to rinse and neutralize acid that found its way into deeper voids between the filler and block.

If I had the block and seriously wanted to find out I would try to remove a sample piece of the filler and do some testing outside the block.

So, what is the end of the story? Did you get the filler out or buy the block or just build the engine?????

I have a buddy that has a 455 Pontiac block 3/4 filled and drives it on the street all of the time. It runs cooler than any of my Mopars every have.

Water temp will be cooler...common for a filled block. But I bet the oil temp is up there.

. [/quote]
Water temp will be cooler...common for a filled block. But I bet the oil temp is up there. [/quote]


Exactly, my Hemi is filled and it runs cool but after driving around and sitting in any traffic, the thing is just huffing oil out of the valve cover breathers.

My half fill 528 will sit in traffic all day in summer but gets up a bit on the highway

a vibratory table is the only way I have seen it done successfully