440 stock stroke 10 second combos

I know this has been asked a lot of times in the past. I love looking at different engine/car combos. I'm putting together a very a mild combo. I would like some guesses on how much power/torque and what it should run. For motor it's going to be a .030 440 with the 3.75" forged crank. I have some small dome bme pistons. They weigh 721-722g with out pin. They're the 1.094" stock pin size. With pin they're 865g I have lite weight pins. I will have to check and see if I can come up with a cc or mock the block up and check and see what kind of cr I'll have. I'm thinking like 12:1. Haven't decided on connecting rods yet. I have ootb 440 source heads 80 cc closed chamber. I have steel retainers, 1107 spring's, stainless valves. 1.6 440 source rockers. I have a team G 4500 tall top with some plenum work done to it. I have a 9375 1050 Holley that might be converted to E85. Planning on like 1 7/8" primary tube headers with 3" collector. I was thinking 2" and 3.5" collector but that could be a bit much. Hopefully getting a comp cams 567/567 264/264 @ .050 106 lsa solid flat tappet cam. Plan on keeping oiling system pretty basic hopefully. Trans is a 727 and it will have a trans brake. Looking at 10" converter in the 3,000-4000 stall range. I'll probably be using a 4.56 gear. I'm expecting car to be around 2500-2600 lbs with driver. Thoughts, opinions, and sharing different combinations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks moparts. Maybe some of you will have fun with this.

I think you'll run 10s easily at that weight. I'd use a better intake and more stall.

My old 440+.030"=446" combo ran 10.40 at 129.1 mph at 3700 lbs.
Ross domes, 14:1 compression, Manley H beams, stock crank
Indy SR heads, out of the box other than being shaved down for compression
Weiand Team G manifold, 1050 dominator
Herbert solid roller 266°/278° at .050", .660"/.620" lift, 106 LSA
727, 9" 5k stall, 4.10 gear, 28x10.5 slick

I think you will be closer to 9's at that weight. I went 10.60's in my Duster at 3230# race weight with a .030 over 440 TRW slugs, stock crank and rods. OOTB Eddy RPM , MP .509 with a M1 and HS 1.5 rockers. 2" Hookers 4.56's and a Coan 5600 stall converter. All on pump gas.

I got the Weiand Team G off a friend for $75. It worked good for what it is on his combo. I'll be sticking with this intake for a while since I have it. The converter I can look to get a higher stall since that hasn't been purchased yet. Only looking to run in the 10s at the fastest. I want to avoid the 9s for now and all the rules until a later date. Thanks for the shares, and the feed back so far.

Mine:

1974 Dodge Dart 2dr 3300lbs at the line.

440 zero decked w/flat top pistons. Ported 915 heads flow 268/207 peak. 11.25:1 Compression

Mopar 590 Solid Cam

850 HP carb, M1 intake, McCandless/ ProParts Headers


727 trans w/ Dynamic 9.5 converter (hi gear flashes 5100) 4.30 gear, 30x9 slicks

Footbrake @ 1800rpm shift at 6200

Bests so far:

10.77 @ 122.8 mph 1/4

1.47 60 ft
6.80 @ 99.79 1/8th

440+.060",Eddy RPM heads w/ bowl cleaned, 590" MP cam, swap meet single plane, 850 Holley, Ross flat top 12-1, LY rods, 8" converter, 4.56,10.5x29.5 M/T, 68 GTX 3750. 10.85-10.95 122-123 depending on weather.
Doug

Our dragster weighs right at 1900lbs and goes goes 8.40's at elevation in Vegas, generally .3 slower than sea level FWIW. Stock block stock stroke Chinese rod ross piston 446 with a set of mildly ported -1 heads(too big really). It is actually the motor for my 68 D100. Pump gas, just under 11-1 compression very small roller. Should be plenty to propel a 2600lb car into the 9.30's at lea level.

Dads goes 11:30s and its a 10:1 440, CNC stealth heads, 600 lift, 260* @.050 with a victor intake and 850 Holley. In a 3500lb corone

For the guys running LY rods, or a cheap I beam/H beam rod. Was is your thoughts on those?. I found some I beam rods on ebay and the company claims they will handle 800 hp. Has ARP bolts. They weigh 800g, and they're $255. They're cheap H beam rods but most of them have the .990 pin.

At that weight...it takes very little to run 10s...

Ported 452s (flowed 262@.600), 10:1 comp, 440, M1, 950HP, 259/.550 Comp Solid, etc. ET/MPH in my sig at 3800 lbs....That combo would be knockn on 9s at your weight.

Rods are no place to pinch pennies. Long before I'd run a $255 I beam from an ebay vendor I'd run LY rods. Of course they CLAIM up to 800 hp. Sounds better than "Use at your own risk about 500 hp"...LOL.

Another PROVEN "budget" rod are the ones from 440source.

At that weight you should have no problems hitting 10's.
My Cuda at 3400 ran 10.82-10.90 w/.040 over 440, 6 pk rods, heavy trw domed pistons, 590 cam, weiand intake w/750 dp and 452 heads from McCandless. This was engine lasted from 1988-2002. Was very consistent.

Get the heads ported, a decent 5000 converter, 2" supersucker and you should be in the 9's
My old motor ran 10.1 at 3150.

Here's mine

'69 Cuda 3000lbs at the line,
1968 440SP block +.030", 10:1CR
Single external Oiling by Milodon
mildly ported 906's, 2.14/1.81
HS Roller Rockers
CC .650" 290@.050 solid flat tappet cam
Team G, 850DP, 2" f/wells
Race 727, 4500 verter
14x32's, 4.88 gears
Ladder Bars/coil overs
35sp Strange spool/shafts
stock fr suspension w/90/10's.
Went 10.7@125, 1.46 short time

I'd love to hear more about this combo. What gear and converter?

With my Demon the best I've had so far is in my SIG it weighs 2950 with me in it...

My Buddy duster with similar setup with trans brake went 10.05 back to back in good air both are stock stroke combos


I would suggest a better converter for your combo..... What car are you using this in

The only thing I'm going to add here is to leave the LY rods in the scrap box and buy a decent set of rods. Somewhere in my shop I still have the LY that is now a jigsaw puzzle that cost me an engine after it tossed at the 1000 ft mark one night.

Low 9.80's twenty plus years ago with a .030 over 440, stock rods (shot peened and new 3/8 bolts), TRW pistons, stock crank, roller cam, Weiand tunnel ram with two 750 holleys ( 76 jets Summer, 78 jets Fall), ported 906 heads. car weighed 2700 pounds, 727, J convertor, 14-31 slicks, and a 4.45 dana rear. Don't be afraid to go with at least a 4400 stall convertor at least. Same combo ran 10.0's with a single 1050 carb.


I will be a cake-walk with Stealth heads.

What car???

Is this going to be a race car ? I am just curious as with the 12.1 comp it dont sound like a pump gas combo so I am guessing its a race car only ? But yes at that weight it wont take alot of hp to run 10's. Good luck , Ron

I friend with the duster says his compression is 12.1 and he insist he doesn't need race gas.... Its his motor I don't argue about it.

1963 Plymouth Valiant. Race only.

440 trw domed pistons, six pack rods, 915 heads with big valves, tunnel ram with 2 660's. MP 590 cam 10.80's at 3200 pounds. You should go way faster.

I agree with using some good rods for sure. The lighter the better (BME?) Maybe a little work inside the runners on the Team-G, you could get away with 10* more duration and a bit more lift on the cam and a 5K vert. 2" header isn't out of the question either.

Don't know if you seen the thread Brad H started?
Fast 3.75"-stroke combo's?
My combo's on the 2nd page if your interested.

The team G has a bad rep, I dont have first hand experience but someone I know ran 10.97 in a 69 Road Runner with a stock stroke 440, TRW pop ups with 906s milled to a close chamber about 12:1, heads were ported, Team G with an annular 850 DP, 4 speed, 5.13s, 557 purpleshaft, all steel body stock interior stripped. I believe McCandless didnthat motor.

Not mine, but I was originally going to copy it...

Ported 452 heads, M1 single plane 4150 intake with 4500 adapter & 1050 dominator, LY rods, 12.5:1 Ross pistons, .650 McCandless solid cam... best I remember it was running 10.0's in a 3000 lb Duster.

Bill Miller Engineering (BME). I have a old set of their custom pistons. There is really nothing done to the runners. The roof into the runner is smooth but nothing done down into the runners or to the port. My buddy had a set of B1 BS heads this intake was on running in the 9.80s. Before the B1 heads he was using some ported 906 and going low 10s in good air. He switched to a super victor intake and I don't think it made that much of a difference. He switched some other things too so not a real fair comparison, but still he ended up with more compression, more cubes, cam specs were changed and maybe not for the good. Car did pick up 2 1/2 tenths.

If anyone has a new set of connecting rods for the 1.094 pin 6.76" for 3.75" 440 they want to sell please let me know. That or maybe a good used set. I've seen some offers on 6 pack rods, LY rods but not sure about them. I hear good and bad things about them. This is a cheap budget build though, but I still don't want anything going boom right away. Any of the used parts I do own are in good useable condition.

My '72 Cuda went consistent 10.80's in the mid '90s weighing at 3300#

Nothing more than a 30 over 440 with ported 906's, M1 intake, Nueten 950 holley, Comp 305/620 solid cam. Car had SS leafs, 29x11 Goodyears and 4.30 gear. Basic Mopar street car with a cage.

Your setup should be a 10.0 car all day. Definitely a 9" converter! Stick with the 1-7/8 headers too.

My old combo circa 1995;
448, trw flat tops(actually sealed power) down the hole .055(9.7cr), ported big valve 906's(flowed mid-260's), UD roller 259/264-108 in at 106, torker II, reworked annular 850, hooker 2" headers.
68 satellite, 3670lbs race ready, flat hood, mechanical fuel pump, 5/16 factory fuel line, crank driven W/P and alternator, battery up front. 727 w/9" dymanic(5300 stall), 4.56's, 29.5 x 10.5 slicks, old SS springs.
10.80's-90's in typical summer weather. 70's in spring and fall, went 60's on one day.
Speed in the 125 range, 60' usually around 1.51-1.54, best ever 1.46.
Shift at 63-6400, out the back around 66-6700.

Lucky I never had one of those ly rods give up on me......I wouldn't build it like that again, but that short block was originally done in 1981.
After seeing how much my 383 picked up by upgrading the fuel system and adding some fresh air, I really wished I had done it with the 448.(of course, that probably would have gone faster enough to blow it up!!)

Supposedly the team G 4500 tall top is better then the 4150 version. The 4150 version has the dents in the runners and they need a lot of work, and even the 4500 version needs some work in the runners, but I believe the 4500 is better all around in the plenum, and runners.

Its all about the cam... if the piston is way up
the bore before the valve closes it'll run on junk
fuel

If it's "right", you're going to have a hard time keeping IN the 10's. At that weight, I see 9.80's easy.

Several moons ago, I went high 10.30's @ 128-129 @ 3200# with...

TRW flat tops
LY rods
R280 roller
906 heads
4150 base M1 w/Dominator adaptor
BOX STOCK 1050

Mike his cam is in the 270's range its a split lift. As for piston they're domes that have been fly cut some

Dammmm 9.80's with ootb Source heads and you have gone 10.30's @ 129 with 906's !!! Im shocked

All I will add is don't cheap out on the converter if you are going to use a brake, or, keep the launch rpm way down so you don't kill it. A cheap converter not built for trans brake use may not last a weekend at full load. I had that happen to me a long time ago, the insides look like someone beat up all the fins with a big hammer!

You guys would shake your heads at what we had to do to run fast years ago. Heck I flycut pistons on an assembled engine to get valve to piston clearance when I switched to a mushroom tappet cam and needed more clearance. I burnt a head gasket and the car slowed .10 every round one Sunday and took 2nd place changing the dial every round. Tore the heads off Sunday night and had the block welded in the car with nichle stick Rod, Welded the head, filed it down with a hand file within .002-.003 and went racing the very next Friday. Man I love racing

They flowed right at 260 @ 28" on Holtons bench, which isn't that far from the Stealth heads from what I'm told. I can only wish I had the choices of heads we have today!

They flowed right at 260 @ 28" on Holtons bench, which isn't that far from the Stealth heads from what I'm told. I can only wish I had the choices of heads we have today! [/quote


You and I both. I never owned a set of aluminum heads till I both a set while I was going through my divorce in 1999. I couldn't afford to use them but I sure as heck bought them. Lol

With a 440 cast crank Ive managed 11.0's with maxed out 915's, 10.80's with indy SR's and ad some gas 9.69 @ 135 before going to a stroker.

I had a stock sroke 440 in the mid 80's [not many good bits available then] anyway six pak replacement pistons [seriously heavy] prepped stock rods ported 906's with 2.14-1.81 valves street dominator manifold, 2" headers. Had it in an Australian Charger around 3250lb. 10.8 / 123 mph

I am thinking maybe trying a freak show converter, and having them decide the stall I need. Does anyone think a 4500 1050 is too big? The carburetor calculator says I need around a 950.

That's what I'm using now.the calculator showed me needing a 1000 cfm Carb the second choice was a 1050

has any one have results with a 446-452ci with INDY 440-1s or B1 heads

im putting together a 446ci B1 combo

This was a build for a buddys 1968 Satelite

.055 over 1966 440 block
NOS cast crank--3.75 stroke--internal balance--no Mallory metal
Eagle 6.76 rods for .990 pins
JE Flat top piston--.025 in the hole--CR 10.5 to 1--Runs on 93 oct pump gas
Racer Brown Solid lifter flat tappet cam--STX-21--272*/272*-.560"/.560"
Edelbrock Performer RPM heads with a decent port job and a Red CC inner spring added--shaved .040
Victor Intake w 1000CFM Carb Shop Carb-4150
Hooker competition headers--1 7/8" primary tubes
Dynamic 9 1/2" TQ Converter
Dana 60 W/Spool and 4.10 Gear set
3600# SS Springs w/ no snubber or anything else
29x 10.5" MT stiff side wall slicks
drivers seat--heater delete full C/M cage-- aprox 3500# w driver

10.29 at 129.xx MPH--1.39 60ft

My Car
89 Chrysler LeBaron
383 block w modified production 440 steel crank--3.900 stroke 449c.i.
11 to 1 CR--Zero Decked flat tops
ported 915 heads
Victor 383 intake
Racer Brown solid flat tappet cam. .560/.560--272*/272*
727 trans w/8" Dynamic converter
9" rear w 4.10 gear set
15x33 tires
2500# w driver
9.02 at 149 mph--1.21 60ft

Jeez... those are some bigazz heads for a 446! Planning on shifting around 8K?

Brad I believe the shift point on the 446 b1 l have was 7800. It pushed 3800 lbs of car 138 mph. The piston speed would be less than a 4.5 stroker turning 6800.

When I first bought my 70 Challenger (back half, ladder bar, lots of fiberglass, 2950lbs with driver) it had a 440 with ported big valve 906s, a .650 lift solid roller, and a team G 4150 with an 850. Glide with 4.56's. It would run 10.90s in good weather, but would creep up to 11.0s in the summer. Since I was racing 10.90 Super Street, I really needed more. I bolted on an ootb M-1, and picked up fifteen hundredths, then the next pass showed two tenths! I never went back to confirm, since I had plenty of runs on the team G. Sold it at a swap meet, and never looked back.




These combinations are very sensitive to getting the camshaft duration, gear, and converter matched up. My brother built a 440 with ootb Indy-1s, 13.2:1, short duration roller (260-269@ .050, .657 lift.), 6100 stall 8 inch JW, glide, 4.56 gear, 15X33 tire, in a 2750lb Barracuda and it went 9.30-143.

I had a 446" in my '65 Belvedere. It weighed 3450 on the starting line. Combo was:

440-1 heads milled to 54cc
Indy single plane 4150+2" 4500 adapter
old Holley 9375 1050
BME rods
stock crank
13.5:1
Comp Cam RX316 R8
ATI 4500 converter in a 727
Milodon single line system

1.4 60ft, 9.90s
--put a 1000cfm downleg 4150 on it with a 3" element air cleaner and still ran low to mid 10s leaving the line on the footbrake around 3k

care to share more info on this combo

compression
cam
stock or ported heads
conveter
gears
weigth

Ari440 the converter was 5600 or so 8" gear was 4.56 or 488 the heads are ported nicely. It is a nicely built old school engine. It has a girdle that resembles the girdles they used on the old 392 fueler engines a fabricated rev kit, rocker stans are milled off and it has blocks and shims so perfect geometry can be attained. Compression I'm going to say is 13+ to 1.It has healthy domes and small combustion chambers. I have no idea on the camshaft. I traded for the engine so I don't know all the particulars. Sorry

Ari440 the converter was 5600 or so 8" gear was 4.56 or 488 the heads are ported nicely. It is a nicely built old school engine. It has a girdle that resembles the girdles they used on the old 392 fueler engines a fabricated rev kit, rocker stans are milled off and it has blocks and shims so perfect geometry can be attained. Compression I'm going to say is 13+ to 1.It has healthy domes and small combustion chambers. I have no idea on the camshaft. I traded for the engine so I don't know all the particulars. Sorry

current combo is a std stoke .030 440
BG 995 cfm King demon RS on an M1
11.5 to 1
ex rebel Engle solid cam and lifters
sidewinder heads with a gasket match and not much else
Harland sharps
glide with a 4k converter
4.56 gears
four link in a duster
best so far with the footbrake
1.46 60ft
6.6 1/8th @ 99mph
8.9 1000ft @ 124mph
10.91 1/4 @118mph
fuel pump proved to be too small and couldn't keep up.

Be very careful or you are going to see liquid aluminum running out of the headers. Didn't you feel it laying over

yes, the pump has now been upgraded to a magnafuel 300 so just waiting for our Queensland weather to cool off some and head back to the track

Hi Project, Could you tell me what fuel system you had( pump, lines and all ) when it dropped 6mph it the top half ?

it had whats called an Aeroflow black 140 equivalent to a holley black. all -8 lines from cell to carb. I knew it wasn't going to cut it but up until then it had been running quicker and quicker, guess I found its limit.

Could anyone tell me their thoughts on a 850 cfm with a 4150 to 4500 tapered adapter on my combo? Also has anyone ever heard the deck of a 440 block varying all over the place from side to side, and front to back even? I also am wondering if anyone got their block angled deck to where it's making the heads face up more so, maybe better line of sight to the port for better flow?

It is not uncommon at all to have the stock 440 decks cut on a taper on both sides I've seen .008 on one side taper and .004 on the other side the opposite way Same thing on the rod lengths and crankshaft strokes
There was a Pro bracket 2 racer at LACR years ago with a 440 1967,68 or 1969 Baracuda coupe that insisted his car ran the best with a Dominator flang intake with the 2 inch tapered 4150 to 4500 adpater with a Holley 850 DP compared to a Holley 1050 Dominator carb. on the same intake without the adapter
As far as tapering the heads, block or intakes to help straighten out the airflows, that is a old SB Chevy SS trick used on the stock iron heads a long time ago, I wouldn't waste my time on a BB Mopar V8 that won't be shifted above 7500 RPM Buy better heads to fix that

Thats interesting as I run the Holley black pump with 3/8 fuel line and use an 850 DP. it has run 10.70's at almost 125. It also ran the same 10.70's at almost 125 with just the Holley red pump before I switched to the black pup. Ron

It is but that 140 is rated unregulated so I found out. more like 100 at 7 psi. I also had it plumbed to a deadhead so.... it could have been ok with a return.

also what fuel filter are you using can regulate the fuel pump too

I've had nothing but bad experience with the Team G, the old Mopar M1 was worth 80 hp over the team G......I've still got the team G after 25 years because I cant sell it with a clear conscious, it's that bad. Get a deferant intake.

73 Dart Sport, 440, stoke stroke,.030 speed pro flat top,lay rods,mopar.557,Indy Srs, team g, 750 alcohol carb,4800 Lupo,Dana 4.56,31x10.5w. 6.60s @ 103 in 1/8. 10:50s running out of motor. Switched from Indy 440-3 to team g . No et change.

Am I missing something here?

Dan is well known for doing more with less. He is a firm believer in Racer Brown cams. His own cars run extremely well for what they are too.

We have a .030 440 with cast crank,LY rods, 7 TRW pistons, 1 Manley piston that I shaped myself with a grinder, SR heads. Has been 9.64 @ 135 on the bottle and 15 years on it's now in my sons Aussie A body Valiant street car and runs 11.1 121 naturally aspirated, cheap thrills.

WOW, ALMOST A 3 YEAR Still some really good info, thanks

I saw the post from the Lebaron too. Its a little too light for me to relate to, but if that B body was .5 second and 5 mph slower I would still think it ran pretty well for what it is. That's almost 130 MPH for a stock stroke 440, with standard port heads, that is pretty darn impressive.

Dan, who did the head work?