This should get interesting. Factory super cars.

Mopar, Ford, and Chevy going at it.



http://www.nmcadigital.com/2016/01/06/nmca-announces-new-factory-super-cars-class/

Yes. This should be real fun.

This hit me as what pro stock ought to be!

Looking forward to it. Looks as though the Ford guys are taking it on the chin with the weight breaks. The 2.9 whipple weighs 3575 in the Chevy, Ford and Mopar camps. Chevy and Mopar are at 5.7 displacement and the ford is at 5.0. I'm thinking 4 valves will have a hard time catching 50 cubic inches.

Index (not even sure if that's the right term) racing has always confused me. How does the current set up work where these cars race? They've never raced each other in a heads up manner before?

Extremely happy about the new class as well! Should've been done a long time ago

What a great class..... wish they were running it out west as well... well maybe in the future. I would say it's going to be a difficult class to keep honest ....very difficult to police.... but I believe this is what people want to see two thumbs up for an nmca

looking forward to checking it out at Indy this year.

Looks like a 425lb weight break for the N/A V-10 drag pak cars. not sure if that will be enough.
When did we get a 7.0 Hemi? (Gen3, presumably) They have one listed.

I believe Barton runs one of the third gens. Runs in the 8's I believe but I don't know at what weight.

Look for some "revisions" in the rules when they discover how weak the modular engine is...

I see the Drag Packs putting such a whoopin' on the others that they will get 'factored' to death AGAIN. Barton has dyno videos of the COPO Whipple engine making 1000+hp and the 354 Whipple engine making 1136hp. Al Carps car already owns the record for the 7.0L N/A at 8.5***ET. The Gen III Hemi's are BAD little doods. Wish "Mopar" would get some blocks into the aftermarket like NOW....

This will be fun to watch!

Those extra two valves are gold. I am betting the ferds will be VERY competitive. Don't forget that there are double overhead cams on the four valve motor. That equals faster valve action, more rpm than a pushrod motor. The GT350 motor puts out 101 hp per liter, on pump gas, in street trim. That says to me there is a lot more there in race trim, then when you put the boost to it,,,,,

The Fords are bad with a blower, and no pushrods helps. I wonder if the ".675 max lift at the valve" rule is for the blower cars as well?

I am pretty sure that is the cam lift on the blown Drag Pak cars.

That must be for all of them across the board, Barton mentioned on FB that his N/A engines had that rule too.

That might have been the case instead of the blown cars.

Looks like Barton's fs/b track pak car ran 8.50's at mid 150's mph back in October. I don't know what it weighed when it made that run. The weight limit is now 3350.

I am also hearing rumors of some pretty heavy hitters down Carolina way that are very interested in fielding some cars. All unconfirmed as of yet but still there. NHRA should be paying attention but they won't. The average fan cannot tell a pro stock from a pro mod. They can FOR SURE see the difference hear. Hey my wifes car looks like that. Hey my neighbor has one of those. They look like cars that drive up and down the road. Might have to expand our horizons.
Todd

What heads do the drag pak run? The coyote head will not keep up with any new hemi head except the early 5.7, that is going to be the difference. Chevy does have heads that can get closer to the apatch/hellcat/eagle/6.1 heads. Without a weight break the coyote will be at the back of the pack, the 4 valves DOHC is nice but you can only turn the RPM so far with limited head flow.

The coyote is a nice package and with a supercharger intake head flow becomes less important for all of them. Possibly the coyote can rpm it's way past a 50 cubic inch handicap.

I don't think RPM will be a problem for the drag pack guys to keep up with, look what Barton has done with the genII Hemis they will make it happen if they need more.

I saw an in car of Barton running a Gen III out the back door @ 8900rpm.

HP is much more closely related to CFM than it is RPM, if you don't have any air flowing in you can't burn fuel no matter the RPM. Air flow IS going to be critical as they all have to run the same blower it seems. We have a bigger engine and bigger air flow RPM will not overcome that and like has already been mentioned the gen III is no slouch in RPM anyhow. At the same weight 50 CFM and 50 CID will spank the other guys real hard. If it was same displacment to weight it may well be another story.

I believe the Mopar N/A combo is the best of the bunch. That being said the NMCA weight is 200 lbs less than NHRA. I doubt if a legal NHRA cars carry 200 lbs of ballast. I would bet most cars in this class will be dual purpose NHRA/NMCA. The other issue is boost vs N/A. I think the N/A cars will be at a disadvantage. It'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out.
Doug

If you're spinning the blower faster you're moving more air no?

Not nessacarily, a SC gets to a point where it just don't really move much more air, not to mention a greater restriction means more PSI and that menas more heat and less mass flow...

Iooked it up and the top 5 liter coyote fs/xx has run a 8.50 at 161.88 mph. That is at the class legal 3575 lbs on a 9" tire. I'm antious to see what the supercharged 354 challenger drag pak will run.

David will be racing Gary Wolkwitz's blown Copo this year pretty much due to Ma Mopar not working with the Bartons at all. Mopar did show up in the winner circle after the fact to help celebrate all of David and Rays hard work.....

David has the copo just north of 1100 hp with some small tuning changes and right now the motor is apart and will receive the "Barton rebuild"! This car will be a player wherever David chooses to race it this year...

As for the blown dragpack- it did make north of 1100hp on the dyno also, but the factory contracted an Indiana Builder to build them for the factory and lets just say theres some illegal parts for stock eliminator inside after the Bartons pulled it apart. Right now the blown dragpak is waiting on chrysler to figure out this mess and ship the legal parts. If you wonder why David is racing a Copo this year then ask yourself why Chrysler wouldn't have even given the Bartons, who had the fastest Challenger by far, a chance to bid on the build of either N/A or Blown Dragpak Hemis..... Very sad day for the mopar contingent

There are many variables. Sometimes when your blower limited a smaller cubic inch is superior as the boost will be higher with the smaller engine. The other thing is exhaust flow becomes very important on the boosted engine. I don't know which heads are superior in exhaust flow. Then the cars are racing on a small tire so the long flat torque curve the 4valve will produce may be an asset. Time will tell but after checking the performance of the cars running out there now I think the racing will be fast and fairly close. The ringer may be the supercharged challenger.

That REALLY bums me out. They really must have their heads where the sun dont shine, first they take a dump on Penske, then the Trans Am teams, then the Tudor Viper guys and the latest is AJ. All after OVER achieving with their brand, I dont get it. Its like if you win championships with a Dodge you get the ax, makes perfect sense to an FCA moron I guess.....

[quote=72Swinger]If you're spinning the blower faster you're moving more air no? [/quote

Yes

This type of exposure makes much more sense than prostock to me. The cars look like what are driving around on the street with engines that you can get in a production car. Who would not want their Brand at the top of the heap. It's crazy.

Its corporate talking heads making decisions based on budget instead of loyalty or integrity. I hope David KILLS the 354's with his COPO, if they are that stupid, they have it coming....

How does the head flow compare between the 3? Is the COPO using an LS3 head? Gen III a 6.2 head? Is porting allowed?

If it was budget, there would've been specs for a few to quote the build. This appears to be politics..... Obama style!

I don't know what Mopar based their decision on, but I can tell you if they wanted to win, they would've at least heard what the fastest guy out their with their product had to say....

For the record, the blown dragpak was a little over 1000hp before David started tuning

Was the 426 n/a motor dead legal? Or did it have "special" parts? Is it possible that the Indiana builder has supercharged ecperience? Just wondering.

Doug

Thinking I read somewhere it was BES (Bischoff) which is the builder of Rob Goss's engine and the fastest gen3 period !!

No knock on Barton but it would be silly to think he's the only one who can tune or make gen3's run !!!

I was just reading the rules and they stated that the automatic transmission must be the same make as the car. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the early V-10 drag pack cars have a glide in them

Gus

[quote=fourgearsavoy]I was just reading the rules and they stated that the automatic transmission must be the same make as the car. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the early V-10 drag pack cars have a glide in them

Gus [/quote
I believe you can run a glide or a Proflite in all 3 makes.
Doug

BES obviously didn't read the NHRA Stock eliminator rule book before building these blown drapak bullets.... Simply stated that the Barton/Carp Challenger was the fastest NHRA Mopar in the Factory shootout series up to this point - that is a FACT! (check the record book)

I can tell you if Ray and David built those- they would be FAST and they would be LEGAL! All I stated was mopar never even gave the Bartons a chance to build or bid on either of the dragpak engine builds. The dragpak is specifically built for NHRA Stock and Factory shootout racing. So why not work with the fastest guy thats already proven he's a step above the rest?

Hopefully BES will campaign or tune a Dragpak Challenger in the Factory Shootout series this year and get Mopar in the winners circle. David will tune their team blown dragpak which will be competitive and fast, but his heart is with a bowtie this year thanks to that same "red headed stepchild treatment" from Mopar.. GM was more than happy to roll out the red carpet for him!

x2. The Fords have more weight on their combos because they were the only game in town for several years and everybody knows how to get them sufficiently under the index.

The Glide was part of the V-10 package as was the 9". Unless things have changed it was only legal in V-10 cars.

Both the N/A and Supercharged cars have 3 speeds as well as Strange 40 spline 9" assemblies. I don't know if you could stick a 2 speed in them, but it's not an option for this year.

BES obviously didn't read the NHRA Stock eliminator rule book before building these blown drapak bullets.... Simply stated that the Barton/Carp Challenger was the fastest NHRA Mopar in the Factory shootout series up to this point - that is a FACT! (check the record book)

I can tell you if Ray and David built those- they would be FAST and they would be LEGAL! All I stated was mopar never even gave the Bartons a chance to build or bid on either of the dragpak engine builds. The dragpak is specifically built for NHRA Stock and Factory shootout racing. So why not work with the fastest guy thats already proven he's a step above the rest?

Hopefully BES will campaign or tune a Dragpak Challenger in the Factory Shootout series this year and get Mopar in the winners circle. David will tune their team blown dragpak which will be competitive and fast, but his heart is with a bowtie this year thanks to that same "red headed stepchild treatment" from Mopar.. GM was more than happy to roll out the red carpet for him!


Dang who peed in your cheerios as I wasn't trying to start a argument..Only stating who I thought was building them and there's lot's of other builders & tuners fully capable of competing....BTW,I don't know or use either !!

It will never be the same like the Dick Landy and Ronnie Sox days