Bushing lifter bores on a big block.

I had this operation done on my small block to correct any mis-alignment but most importantly save the motor (oil pressure) in the event of a valve train failure, I ran a solid roller in the SB and plan on running one in the 512 and am curious if this operation is a worth while investment on a bracket motor for saftey and oil controll along with correcting and alignment issues if any, lets hear it.

If you were going to pushrod oiling it is the only way.
The alignment on most production blocks is off a little so it will correct the alignment.
Keeping oil pressure in case of a valve train failure, it would do the same as the small block.
Cost vs effect in my opinion is worth it.

I had one 440 block bushed years ago, my new Koleno block is bushed. I've built and raced lot of different Mopar V8 motors over the last 40 yrs and I had several loose oil pressure due to valve train failures, some of them needed several rod bearings replaced and some didn't after inspecting them . If it wasn't so darn expensive to have them machined and bushed I would do all my motors that where going to be raced I do try to measure how much clearance from the lifter bores to the lifters it has, if it exceeds .0025 I don't use that block for a race motor Mopar use to sell oversize (both hydraulic and solid) lifters but not anymore that I'm aware of
What time and price are your local machine shops quoting you? I'm almost positive I paid a little over $900.00 total for that 440 block back in the early 2000s to be done. Your choice

Cab, not sure what he would charge to do it,this is one of the items I want to discuss with him when we sit down and make out a work order to get things rolling, I know the machinist who did my small block charged $600.00 for that operation.

Another option.

http://wydendorfmachine.com/reamerkits.html

What is the life span of the bushings?

I don't think that would fix the reason you bush the bores. Angle and location. IMO. Hughes has a Tech write up on bushing the bores and what it dose. I'm doing a 512 low deck and will be having the lifter bores bushed. I'm gathering parts now. I have 2 230 blocks I will be sending out soon to be checked. I hope they both are good usable blocks.

I agree it won't fix any geometry issues and it's not advertised to, but if you have worn lifter bores this could be a fix.

When I worked at Huntsville Engine, one of the things I did was install lifter bushings. We used the BHJ fixtures. Never.........repeat NEVER saw a factory block that had the bores in the right spot, both angle and position. Might not be much, but they were ALWAYS off, regardless of brand.........Doing things RIGHT the first time is always a good investment in my book

Did the BHJ fixture duplicate the Mopar engineering specs. or did BHJ make some corrections on thier tooling to fix the errors they thought Mopar made originally?

Totally agree Monte. I have the 2 blocks I will be getting checked out to be good. If they sonic and mag with no leaks. They both will get bushed lifter bores. My stuff don't have to be perfect. It just has to be right.

I don't even understand what kind of question you are trying to ask, or what you are confused about. Every block has a print of where things are supposed to be. You build tooling to put those holes where they are supposed to be. Are you trying to imply that every block that comes out of a worn out core box at the factory, has things where they are supposed to be? Or that the factory tooling on mass produced engines was perfect............exactly what are you trying to ask.

I stated I NEVER saw a factory block of ANY make, have all the lifter bores where they were supposed to be...........you can take that any way you want, but it seems pretty clear cut. Same as you rarely ever see a factory block that is the design print deck height, nor ever see one that the decks are parallel and square to crank centerline. Factory machining, is simply factory machining. Why you think some factory motors CAME with a bigger lifter here and there. It's not because they made an oops and reamed it too big. Its because it was not where it was supposed to be and then to get it round, they had to make it bigger

Depending on the power level you are building for is the best criteria for bushing lifter bores.For street and strip the cost could be well spent elseware.on mild builds it should be done only if correction is necessary ie:loose bores,location and misalignment to the deck and heads.On all out race engines it is done for the same reasons and for custom lifter location to better the pushrod and rocker alignment.
If you choose to go this route be sure your machinist has the correct fixture or program for your block and application.Be prepared to pay $400 to $600 plus the cost of bushings.Also make sure that the block has all been corrected(squared and etc).The lifter bushing should be the last machine work.Ask first if your shop has the means,equipment and ability to do this process,we have seen bushed blocks that are totally screwed up because a shop had just bored and installed bushing.We agree that factory machine work is suspect at best,and should be checked and corrected if necessary.

Bill I really don't want to tell you what to do but PLEASE be careful how much money you spend on a stock block. If and when you decide to really lean on a stock block it will break. Money spent bushing a stock block, concrete, girdles, and new main caps and the associated machine work go along ways toward buying a GOOD block. Not sure how fast you are planning on going but stay away from all the voodoo tricks. Rant off.

My intent is not to find maximum HP but for longevity,that being said my goal is to run high nines without stressing the engine to the limit like I have to do now and to do it with reasonable consistancy, after all consistancy is what win's races, I think with solid machine work and a selection of the correct parts I can achieve that goal,,I also realize that a stock block has it limitations and that some items are concidered band-aid's, but I don't plan on twisting the nut's off of it to get where I want to be,,John, it's guy's like you, Monte,Andy,Cab and the rest of the guy's that have been there, that I listen to and respect, right now I am trying to go to my machinist loaded with info so I can make an informed decision on which way I spend my money.

While true, that's no reason not to do it RIGHT. If you opt for the stock block, you could apply that logic to basically anything.........No need to square deck it, because it's only a stock block and will break anyway. No need to check line hone and no need to do any number of operations, so to me that's not a valid argument.

With a stock block, yep you know the risks and that's YOUR choice, but I still believe that it needs to be done RIGHT. No voodoo involved just proper machining practices

www.b3racingengines.com makes a product to help correct geometry issues with ones valvetrain. Im planning on having a set made for my junk when the time comes to assemble my block.
Good luck

My pump gas Duster weighed 3450 lbs with me in it, it ran a best of 9.993 at 134.7 MPH through the full exhaust system with the air cleaner on running 91 octane non ethanol Oregon pump swill It had 10.78 to 1 compression, Mopar brand ductile iron main caps with ARP main studs, CAT 6.800 long H beam steel rods, Ross 22 CC dished pistons (452 grams without pins, oil or rings ) at zero deck. 4.300 stroke Chineze steel crank Four Ductile iron sleeves in the block, decked, balanced and all the other normal machine work, no lifter bushings. Non CNC ported SR heads with M.W. ports and a Indy 400-3 intake and Holley 9395 non HP 1050 CFM Dominator, Comp Cams custom solid roller cam 260 @ .050 with .420 lobe lift on the intake and 266 @ .050 with .409 lobe lift on the exhaust. Harland Sharp 1.6 rockers. Pro Trans RMVB 727 with a Mopar 2.77 low gear set, T/A 9 inch SS/AH race converter, Dana 60 with 4.10, ladder bars with double adjustable Strange 16 inch extended coil overs, M/T 325x60x15 ET Street radials on ten inch wide rims. It liked to be shifted at or above 7000 RPM with all three sets of heads, intakes and carbs and the different compression ratio I got lucky on this combination, no magic and a lot of trying different parts to get there My message is if I can do it and make it live so can you IHTH

Rocker arm geometry and whether the lifter bores are placed correctly in the block are entirely different matters and really not even related.

Rocker arm geometry is how the rocker pad relates to the valve tip. Lifter bores are relative to pushrod angles and cam timing. If the lifter is in the wrong place or on the wrong angle, the cam timing is off, as the lifter is not on the lobe where it is supposed to be, at a given time

Now in the grand scheme of things, does it really matter that the cam timing may be slightly off? Maybe, maybe not. But that discussion can also be the same as does it really matter, if the deck height and angle is a little off here and there? Maybe, maybe not. Boils down to this. You can do it all right, or you can do it all just ok. How much you want to spend and what are your expectations.

Cab mentioned what a combo above ran. Ok, may it have run even better with more meticulous machine work......maybe, maybe not...........but guys who run Stock, get phenomenal results with what many consider inferior parts......WHY?.....meticulous machine work and attention to detail

I am not even remotely entering the "is it WORTH it" debate, because worth is a relative thing to different people. I am only debating the fact that some seem to think it doesn't matter. Because it DOES matter, if you want it to be as good as it can be

Though I agree with John(pittsburghracer),Monte also has a point.If your running a class car(dog chasing it tail)thing and want to extract every but of power than all those costly things need to be considered.But most adverage street,strip and budget bracket cars need to consider the best bang for the buck.Take for example a competative class car may have more in their engine top half as most competative bracket cars have in their entire drive train.
We see some home or small shop bracket engines run competatively for many seasons and then we see engines built at some of the top shops never get out of the burnout box.Many can overcome a loss of a low buck engine and recover but to loose a high doller race engine can be a major setback to most.Either way a loss is a loss and it's only as serious as to what your budget can afford and one can mentally handle.Good advice is to build within you means and ability.
To add some metalluragical theory based on studys by a professor at Univ.of Pittsburgh and others, hardened steel against a porius metal such as cast iron and cast aluminium,(both soft)has a better wear characteristics than hard against hard.Bronze is both hard and dense especially when other metals are added like tin.Put this question to block manufactures as to why lifter bores and other wear areas are not bushed from the factory.Before some one jumps up and down about rod wrist pin bushing being bronze or bronze lined it is mainly to eliminate friction and eliminate a hard surface against a hard surface.Before rod bushing the harden pin was a press fit at the rod and rotated in the piston bores.