Cheap tig welders. Are they worth it?

I know that you get what you pay for. I am looking for home use, not production line. I am thinking through the idea of getting a tig welder for the garage. Yeah, Miller or Lincoln would be nice, but out of budget. I have read a lot of good reviews on the Hobart unit that is available through Northern Tools. From what I have read, it is USA made and affordable. A cheaper option would be the Eastwood Tig200 available through Eastwood or Jegs, made in China. Eastwood seems to have some issues on their reviews, but they might have fixed production problems recently, since most of the bad reviews are older. Obviously, this would be for rollcage fabrication. Also some sheet metal work in aluminum and steel, and even some header work.
While I'm on it, can I use the same shielding gas for chrome moly and mild steel?

All my welders are Lincoln but if I were to buy
new I would go with Miller.. myself I would buy
the brand names.. can you buy parts for the off
name products if needed... for the gas.. tig= 100%
argon.. mig= 75/25... for 99% of the use.. if you
get into some odd ball stuff then odd ball gas is
needed(only in some cases).. also you will find out
that the torch(the welding head) wont be what you
need for every use.. I have 3 torches for my TIG
and different sizes on the collars and tungsten..
I use a lot of 3/32 for the most of my work but I
have a whole different hose and torch for real lite
work that uses smaller everything
EDIT
Hobart is a decent lower line welder.. I wouldnt even
look at the China stuff... JMO

I have a Miller 180 Diversion, love it so far. Local dealer price was a little over $1800.00 for the unit. Bought a cart, bottle, some extras and an assortment of filler rod and tips and total out the door was about $2450.00.

I have a Everlast 200dx... I haven't had any issues with it. Use it for the same stuff you want yours for. I haven't used it on a aluminum head yet though. The accessories were lower line, torch and stuff, so I thought when they fail I'll upgrade, they haven't yet. Check out the reviews, that's what finally sold me on it.

I was looking at the Everlast also. I have a budget of around $1,000-$1,500 to spend on a welder. I would love to have a Miller or Lincoln, but it is out of the question. My only other choice would be to finish everything I can with my Mig and contract out any Tig work I need done. I'm not big with trusting other people to do work for me.

Yeah not sure about the Hobarts?? I would like to hear some reviews about them from people that have had them for years.. I use Millers at work and home and getting parts is never a problem. My tig at home is older then me,, its a Miller Gold star 330 and still welds like a champ. LOL

My next tig unit will have the cooling tank on
it... I had my brothers tig here when he was
building his new house and it had the cooling tank..
yeah its a big unit but it actually uses less power
to run than my unit and his is way more powerful..
I have been looking at rebuilt units(brand names) and
for what your willing to spend you would be right there
for a nicer unit than what your looking at

Hobart is owned by Miller. I have a Hobart generator /welder. It is the same welder as the Miller bobcat. Hobart is aimed more at farmers and individules as Miller is focused more on commercial. I love my new Hobart and it replaced a Miller I had owned for 20 years.

Get on Craigslist. Lot of people make the jump and later decide it's not for them. Lots of like new entry level equipment for sale.

I agree, Miller and Hobart are the same just different color and decals. I like Your comment as well. I see that Miller now has the Bernard Mig gun/cables line as well, anyone use the 'center fire' Bernard stuff versus standard Miller?

Biggest knock on the cheaper, low amperage welders is the duty cycle. I have an Eastwood 135 amp - 110v welder that I use the snot out of. Has the shield gas kit and infinate dials, not stepped ones. Pull the covers and you can't tell the difference from a Lincoln, and the Eastwood uses Tweeco consumables. Great for everything from sheet metal up to 3/16" mild steel, but I wouldn't want to do a whole cage with it, due to the 20% duty cycle. I have access to a Miler 200 for the finish cage welding. But the Eastwood is the best $300 I ever spent, other than bar tabs and hookers.

I found my Lincoln Tig in our free local sale ad hand-out but lots of good deals on Craigslist for seldom used welders. I took Night classes ( stick, mig, tig )at our local tech school and was lucky enough to train on the machine I ended up buying.

If your budget is $1500. then consider the Thermal Arc 186. This is quite likely made in China but Thermal Arc is a well known company who will stand behind the product and just about every welding supply carries the Thermal Arc line. Its not a "new" product - been out for a few years - so its proven itself. Accessories are readily available and reasonably priced. Now, the REALLY nice thing is that it has all the bells and whistles that the Miller 200DX has - for about half the money !!

If you do any research, about the only complaint you'll hear is that the fan is loud. I suppose if you're tig welding in library it will be an issue ... it doesn't bother me.

I also looked at the Everlast but the support and availability of accessories was a concern - particularly the foot pedal.

Lots of great info. Thanks guys. I had no idea about reconditioned units either. I might hold out for something like that. I have a local Airgas welding supply near me that supplies our torch equipment for the dealership. I might drive over there right after the holidays and see what they have to choose from. They show Miller MaxStar 150 from $1,200 and up. What would be the smallest recommended size for a cage?

Do you need AC (to weld aluminum)? If not, then you don't need these expensive welders you're considering. I have an Everlast 160sth that's my 'disposable' field welder and it has a 5 yr warranty, hf start and only cost 400 and change.

If you do need AC, and you don't want Chinese, then a good used Synchro or Lincoln is still within the budget. Also, Lincoln has introduced the POWER TIG 200, which is their new AC inverter that less than 1500. S/F....Ken M

I do weld alum using my Mig machine.. but I HAVE
to change the cable and the gun for the alum wire..
the steel cable liner is already dirty and it wont
do the alum .. you need a liner that you use JUST
FOR ALUM.. if you were to run the steel wire through
it you would have to buy a new liner(I just change the
whole thing being that its just easier).. takes a bit
to get use to but it does a nice job.. I usually lay
a piece of alum along side of the job I am working on..
get the start on the separate piece then run over to the
job.. that way the wire is up to temp.. and I do change
the bottle over to 100% argon

I would like AC capability for aluminum down the road. Airgas does list Miller and Hobart together. I would love a Miller or Lincoln within budget. I have a Snap-On Mighty Mig 140 that has Tig but I haven't been able to get it to work. Plus, when I change over cables and settings, then revert back, the wire feed calibration gets wacked. Snap-On knows about this, says to just reset the feeder potentiometer. Sounds easy enough, except that all of the covers have to come off in order to do that. Next time, I might just drill a hole in the right area to access the pot with a long screwdriver, and then get on the phone with tech support to see what is wrong with my setup. Can't seem to get an arc going no matter what power level. Mig side works super. Tig does not have foot pedal option or AC.

Years ago I did aluminum with a smaller Mig. Changed over to a nylon liner and Argon. Not pretty, but it did what I needed it to do. (Repairing gas pump nozzles in the gas stations). Airgas carries Thermal Arc also. Might be worth a visit to get some info.

I must be a sissy because I won't tig without a water cooled torch. I don't like municipal water for cooling (have had to use it) so my TIG has a built in cooler.

BTW, I paid $750.00 cash for mine used. You need to look at local welding and machine shops who may be upgrading.

I wouldn't buy a TIG I couldn't weld aluminium with.

http://www.amazon.com/AHP-AlphaTIG-200-Amp-Stick-Welder/dp/B00EL8UQH4

The ESAB Rebel is available for about $1300. Like others have said, look around on Craigslist,FleaBay and local machinery dealers for good used machines. There's still a lot of good old Millers,Lincolns,Air Products and Lindes out there. I have an old Air Products Vis-Arc, which is a rebranded Miller 330 A B/P. Its an industrial grade AC/DC with hi frequency start and welds great! They take up more room than a newer welder but I have only 500 bucks into mine.

Yeah, there are plenty of cheap off-brands. If I went that route, wanted to stay with at least a known good supplier, and some place to get consumables for them. Eastwood is available from Jegs or Eastwood under $700. Hobart is available from Northern Tool for around $1,200. Then you got stands, tanks, supplies.

All my welders are Millers, stick/Tig is a Syncrowave 250DX with a Miller torch cooler. My mig is a Millermatic 210 with a Miller spool gun, whichever gun I pick is hot and I keep argon and 75/25 hooked to it at all times.

I don't like multi purpose machines (mig/stick/tig) as they seem to do none of them well. Also would not have a tig welder without AC.

Check with Cyberweld they usually have great prices. When I bought my 210 they beat my local dealer by $800 to my door.

Rollcage fabrication? So these are welds your life could depend on?

I would not (never, nyet, nein) buy Chinese, and/or cheapo equipment. I've used the Miller Diversion. Runs OK. Maybe a little light for chassis work. The intended use needs to be considered. Sheet metal, .083, .134. 3/16 or 1/4 thick suspension brackets, rear axle housing work, etc. If you have to run the machine with it's tongue out, it's too small.

In this economy, there are lots of deals on used, good condition, quality, name brand equipment. Local auctions, Craigslist, local welding suppliers, word of mouth. Some of it is beat to death though. Just need to be careful. I would buy a nice used Lincoln or Miller before a new 2nd class machine all day long.

I lied, the new Lincoln AC TIG is Square Wave 200 and it's $1400. It's a simple machine, but superior to the Miller offering in the same range, their Diversion.

http://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.com/lincoln-square-wave-tig-200-welder-k5126-1

Another issue is how much power do you need and what electrical service do you have? My Syncro 250 is good for output (310amps) but eats electricity (105 amp 230v input at full bore) You won't need high output except for aluminum IME, but if you only have say 40 amp service, you need an inverter. And transformer machine are bloody huge and heavy, which is why I have the Everlast 160STH, that's something I can lug about, and it's dual voltage. And it's cheap, so when some moron at work falls on it or something stupid, they can buy me another and I don't have to find someplace to hide their body. S/F.....Ken M

Keep looking on e-bay, Craig's list. I bought a 1973 330 Miller gold star with cooling tank, cables, pedal, a ton of rods, and cart for $550. I drove 275 miles to pick it up. Weights over 1000 pounds and has all the bells and whistles. Miller man keeps wanting me to trade it in on a new syncrowave but I won't( he has a buyer). My first one was made up with a 250 amp ac-dc Miller and a add on Linde high frequency box, only down side was starting the arc and amp adjustment. Like I said look around and stay away from the new stuff, even though they're nice, but the older rigs will still get the job done. Don't just buy the welder, the little things will add up big time, find one with most or all of the goodies, cheaper in the long run.

Ordered the new Lincoln a while back. They are on back-order and lots of customers waiting for one. On paper that thing blows the Miller Diversion 180 away, so I can't wait to try it.

I did try the Miller 180 and really liked it but glad I saw the new SquareWave: if it lives up to it's specs all those off-shore brands and Miller are going to lose a pile of sales.

I hope to see it in the next couple of weeks.

I highly recommend Baker Gas, they are awesome to deal with. I ordered a new Miller 211 and Miller plasma cutter from them too.

As an experienced welder, I find the machine capabilities and prices a little too good to be true............hopefully I'm wrong.

Generally, if the machine is not sold as tig specific, it will have no "start" circuit. You have to scratch start the arc. One of my welders is one of the first inverter style power sources. 200 amps, never blows a breaker, it is setup as my wire welder now, but in the old days it was my scratch start tig machine. No a/c capabilities.

It might just be that I never used a Tig welder before. Might need to find someone local to give me some hands on. Still would like the capability of welding aluminum.

What kind of welding experience do you have?

Arc, Mig, gas. Pretty good at fitting tubing. My 'Cuda was my first build long ago. Have done plenty of roll bars, back halves, lots of fabrication work. No pro by any means, but I can get the job done, without people going "OMG! Who welded THAT???".

Well, if you got the hang of oxy/acetylene then you'll pick up TIG, no problem.

The one thing with alum.. you start heating it
then when you see it turn shiny its ready for
the bead.. the hardest part is jumping the gap
on the start of the bead.. once you do that then
the temp jumps across the area easy and the bead
will form easy... dab, dab, dab... and so on..
when you get near the end the temp will climb so
you start backing off the pedal... practice
EDIT
I also ball the electrode so the power will run
in circles to heat better(just on alum)

HTP and Esab have good units too. I picked up my Lincoln 225 through trading, I bought my Lincoln sp250 wire feed for 800, it is a full digital machine that is old but still runs good. I like the ability to do what I want with all of my welders. I started with a Hobart buzz box that has a tig torch and a Montgomery Wards High frequency box. 75% of the people who say they need liquid cooling really don't run enough amps to actually need it. I have a cooler that I have never even used yet. Get the best machine you can afford or wait until the right deal comes along. I waited 5 years for my tig. Tim

33? replies and this is the only with real world experience reply with a cheap tig?. I got a Miller Syncrowave 500, so no further comment.

I have a cheap chinese TIG WELDER. was a gift. It can also be a plasma cutter and stick welder.
It takes all of the standard consumables- which is nice. its a giant tech brand- they don;t have fantastic reviews but mine does everything i need it to. has a large dent in the top from an earthquake about 1 year ago- still works great.

I would hate to have spent the miller $$$$ to buy my own and use it for what I do. this is a perfect machine for a hobbyist.

I guess I misunderstood what he meant by cheap...I thought my Diversion 180 was on the low end.

There isnt a reason he has to buy cheap.. as I said
in one post.. get a quality rebuilt for the price
he is willing to spend

Another vote for Miller Diversion line. Great product at a decent price

I have fairly extensive experience with an Everlast 160STH, which is DC, HF start. He said he wanted an AC/DC unit. I own a Syncro 250 at one job, and use an Everlast 325 EXT at another, where we weld heads, blocks and other things that racers blow up. It's a nice machine, but outside the OP's budget, as are the HTP machines(awesome welder) as well as the higher end Miller/Lincoln units. The smaller Everlast machines seem OK, based on what I've seen, their customer support is generally replace the unit, which is a problem for guy's using a welder for income. That's what you're paying for with Miller/Lincoln, a dealer support network where you can get a loaner while your junk is being fixed.

The other thing that the OP needs to address is what I brought up earlier; if you want to weld aluminum and you're looking at used transformer stuff, you better have at least a 60 amp circuit to use, with more being better. 60 amps/230v will get you to about 180-200 amp output on a transformer TIG machine, which is baseline minimum (IMO) to do decent aluminum work on anything other than sheet metal. Unless you want to buy some helium mix, but now we're getting into semi-exotic territory. S/F.....Ken M

I have someone I trust giving me prices for electric upgrades in my garage from 110 to 220. He explained to me that the advantage of using 220 is that there will be less current draw (less electrical cost) than with 110. I had no idea about the required increase in service capacity. I will have to talk to him about that since I was only thinking about 30 amp service.

220 will provide double the power at the same amperage. Welders are high draw, so you need all you can get. A 110v 30 amp circuit is about as heavy as you can get, with 20 amp being much more common. This limits you to a real world 90-100 amps output with a good inverter welder. A 200 amp inverter TIG machine will pull 30-35 amps at full bore 230v, so you may be OK with a 30 amp circuit depending on what you get and what you need. That Lincoln Square Wave 200 will run very well on a 30 amp 230v circuit. So will the Miller Diversion 180, but it more money, and it's big problem IMO, is that it uses a proprietary foot pedal and torch that are unlike any of their other welders, which is bunk. Most serious welders have a box full of parts, torches and such so they can keep working when stuff breaks, like when Cletus the slack jawed yokel backs his F350 over your foot pedal. S/F....Ken M

Your cost for the electricity will remain the same, since normally you pay for the amount of energy you consume, and that is voltage multiplied with current multiplied with time. Double the voltage with half the current...

The Everlast 200dx has 60% duty cycle at full output (200a).
That's one of the reasons I bought it.

Compare it to the miller 200dx.

Originally Posted By jcc

33? replies and this is the only with real world experience reply with a cheap tig?. I got a Miller Syncrowave 500, so no further comment.

I have dealt with cheap junk all my life because I couldn't afford( for lack of a better excuse)the better equipment, but after fixing it a couple times and putting up with the poor quality work it produces, well, that's the reason I suggested buy a good used unit and stay away from those products. You're better off in the long run.

The Everlasts are a reasonably mature product at this point, they do not have the business infrastructure of Lincoln/Miller or ESAB. Notice as they achieve market penetration, their prices go up. I think they could aspire to be like HTP some day, perhaps soon. For those who do not know, HTP imports excellent welders(from Italy IIRC) but they do not have a dealer network, they're in Elk Grove IL or close to it. They do have absolutely excellent customer service and the gear is good enough so that you seldom need it. Their 221 unit is markedly superior to the Miller Dynasty 200, with most of the features of the Dynasty 350 but not the output. But most people don't need much more than 220 amps.

The shop next to my part time gig imports and services a 200 amp AC/DC welder that gets rebadged under various tool lines. We used one of their 200 amp welders when our Everlast cooked a board (it still worked, just not 'right' and it was replaced fairly quickly) and 200 amps was inadequate for block and head repair. Would have been OK with 75% helium, but that's money. Honestly, that doesn't apply to most people. S/F....Ken M

I bought my Syncrowave 250DX at the chemical plant I was working at when it closed. I was the only person that had ever used it, probably only ran three pounds of 7018s with it. Luckily my $1003 bid was enough to buy it, the receipt on it was $3450. I'd rather save my money and pay $2000 for a Miller, Lincoln or Esab than pay $1000 for something that may not be well supported. Pay once, cry once.

A ton of good welding info here.

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/