Which manual trans to buy?

At this time my 69RR has a John Cope CRT-4(VMRVB).
Am very happy with it sofar.

For next winter I am planning on going manual trans.

Problem now is which do I buy.

Hemi has 750hp and about 600ft-lbs (pro-charger upgrade in future).

Really like to have an overdrive and good street use (downshift).
Also like to have Vertical gate shifter.

Called McLeod about their new trans but has 500 ft-lbs limit.

Called G-Force about their GF5R with Vgate shifter but no syncro in this box.
Also their Street 6-speed is a great trans but no Vgate shifter.
Liberty is also no street trans.

Any tips.

If production ever increased, I would use a Passon 5 speed Hemi box for your application. Your 600 ft-lbs engine torque is only relevant if you are putting all of it to the ground. If you are racing on slicks it might be more critical, but I am guessing that this is a street car since you want a syncro box. I'm still using the same hemi box in my 'Cuda since the mid 1980's and my car has run high 9's. The new motor will push it into the 8's and I'm planning on using the same trans, just different clutch setup.

From G-force website on face-tooth design:

Clutch assisted transmissions can be upshifted and downshifted quickly at ANY engine RPM! Part-throttle shifts can be accomplished without the use of the clutch simply by slightly letting off on the gas, ("blipping" the throttle), while moving the shift handle. Wide-open throttle shifting requires disengaging the clutch just long enough to release the load to engagement lugs. Once you've pulled the shift handle far enough to get out of gear, you don't need the clutch disengaged to engage the next gear. This is a significant improvement over the old Pro-Shifted design engagement. The transmission shifts very similar to a motorcycle in the way it operates inside.

Maybe you don't need syncro's. I have always wanted to try a GF5R in my car.

ST1200?

Thanks for the info RTSE4ME , but in same Gforce info they state :

Because of the unique engagement system of a clutchless G-Force, the transmission is not suitable for the street and will pop out of gear under deceleration. Since the clutchless G-Force is not a planetary transmission, it doesn't impose the same type of power losses.

The Viper based 6 speed would do it except no V gate. The Lenco would be fun. I'm pretty sure either of these would require fabbing a new T bar cross member.

Back when the Verti Gate shifters first came out I heard a lot of racers hating them, I tried driving a freinds car for him and I didn't like it either The Long shifters where much better according to the guys that had them Look around and see if you can locate one of them in decent shape that is based on you not driving a car with one of them in it If you have driven one and like them then go for it

Gforce dogring boxes do not kick gear out on decel. Although beeing non synchronized i think it would get boring kinda fast.
But if you could live with that i would say its perfectly street able.

Gforce info they state :

Because of the unique engagement system of a clutchless G-Force, the transmission is not suitable for the street and will pop out of gear under deceleration. Since the clutchless G-Force is not a planetary transmission, it doesn't impose the same type of power losses.

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They make GF5R in 2 version cluthless and clutch assisted. The clutch assisted version does not pop out of gear under deceleration and can be driven on the street. The difference betwwen the two are the sliders and face plates on 1st thru 4th gears.

I don't get how the McLeod can only hold 500 lbs TQ? An 833 hemi box will do way more than that.

Guess I need to see what they made.

My car is set up with a V-gate. I like V-gates over H pattern shifters. Besides being different, I have seen people (Not me!) pull wrong gears with an H pattern shifter. I have had people drive my car, and no one has ever missed a proper shift. Never had the opportunity to use a Long style.

Yup, I used a Vetrigate on the street all through the 1980's. There would be one in my DD if I wanted to cut the crap out of the floor.

I can't see a 45 year old production transmission holding as much power as a modern day box from McLeod.

Thanks RTSE . Did not know about the 2 differences GForce has with GF5R trans.
Will need to get back to GForce then.

Madscientist . Mailed with McLeod about trans as they state max 500 lbs and in MoparMoscleMagazine it's 600 and in their Hemicuda (art morrison framed 528 ProCharger) it's linked to 1000 lbs.
They say safe limit 500. They'r Cuda is not used with full power.

They make GF5R in 2 version cluthless and clutch assisted. The clutch assisted version does not pop out of gear under deceleration and can be driven on the street. The difference betwwen the two are the sliders and face plates on 1st thru 4th gears. [/quote]

They make GF5R in 2 version cluthless and clutch assisted. The clutch assisted version does not pop out of gear under deceleration and can be driven on the street. The difference betwwen the two are the sliders and face plates on 1st thru 4th gears. [/quote]

Yes. No sence in running a clutchless on the street.
I run a gf4a in my racecar and i would say its street able.

V-gates are a PITA to downshift, ya sure wouldn't want to autocross with one !!! Just my 2 cents !!

Jericho offers a road race version that might work for you.

Joey

I have a Lenco ST1200 on order in a 5spd with a 3.10:1 first gear and 1:1 in 5th gear. I also ordered it with the heavy duty sprags.

I will try not to butcher up the tunnel too bad (I hope), but I have a feeling that it is going to take some major fitting behind a lakwood bell housing. Tim Hyatt is building the clutch/flywheel for me too.

Another thing I am going to do is also order the Passon 5spd, and my understanding it is 2 years out on order backlog...but I figure I will install that if the ST1200 is not street-able enough.

As soon as I start the install I will post pics of the progress. I have to wait until March to start the project because of recent spine/fusion surgery...I can't wait to get started!

Mark

I've been running a Richmond 5-speed with a Long V-gate for the last 8 years and I'm finally tired of pulling the trigger when downshifting when slow cruising. I had Liberty's face plate 1st through 4th and left 5th syncronized. I love to drag race this box but with a V-gate and face-plate it's a little tricky to hit the down shift just right when street driving.
I have recently installed a street HEMI box with a good old reliable Hurst Supershifter III for easier street driving.

If you can find a Richmond 5-speed with a Mopar input I would highly recommend that box.
Oh and be prepared to do some floor cutting and torsion bar crossmember mods to make it fit with a V-gate because they are big.

Gus

Check out the Liberty LSC5100.

http://www.libertysgears.com/LSC5000.htm

Check this LSC5100 out, it looks super beefy: 4 bearings on the mainshaft/input assembly, and 3 on the cluster shaft. Every gear (except 2nd on the cluster) is right next to a bearing. That adds a ton of rigidity to keep the shafts from flexing when the gears try to push away from each other under load. It is available faceplated with non-split sliders for street use.
I'm putting a T-56 Magnum behind the early Hemi in my hot rod, it is rated for 700 ft pounds. But next time I build a big inch Hemi, it will be backed by the LSC5100.

That's even more info.
Is the Liberty trans also with overdrive 5th gear?

On the G-force 5th gear locks the main shaft straight thru 1 : 1, the countershaft is just along for the ride so no OD possible. Not sure on the Liberty.

Neither the Gforce or Liberty 5 speed have overdrive. I am not aware of ANY 5 speed OVERDRIVE that can us a V-gate shifter.

What you can do with the Liberty or Gforce is order whatever gears you want. So pick a rear end ratio that gives you the highway cruise RPM that you want. Like a 3.00:1, or a 2.75:1. Then set up 1st through 4th gear to give you the overall launch ratio that you want in 1st, the trap RPM at the big end of the track in 4th, and the RPM drop at shifts that best suits your motor in 2nd and 3rd.
This is more efficient that gearing up the driveshaft speed with overdrive, and gearing it back down with the rear end gears anyway.
In my 67 Olds, I run 2.75 rear end gears, and a Doug Nash 5 speed, which has 1:1 5th and a 3.27 1st gear to get off the line. It really works great.

Hi Hemi_Joel.
Rear is StrangeS60 with 3.54.
It's a street car not a dragcar.

Think I have to go in the T56 Magnum wide ratio direction.
The V-Gate direction is too difficult.
Just too bad.

That's a perfect choice for a street car, if you can live without the Vgate shifter.

I have an aluminum face plated 18 spline a-833, a Lenco ST-1200, and a G-Force GF5R soon to be on the way.

I think the 18 spline is a ticking time bomb situation in a heavy car with a street friendly clutch and a stroked big block. Don't get me wrong I love my a-833's but have broken some stuff as you would expect. They are fairly light, relatively inexpensive and could not be easier to install being stock stuff.

I ordered a Lenco ST1200 last year around this time and am still waiting on the correct input shaft and an adapter that works with my Lakewood bellhousing. It's a cool transmission but a few factors have caused me to move on.

You will for sure need to heavily modify the tunnel and torsion bar crossmember to fit the Lenco in a stock floor car. IIRC it is about 8.25" in diameter and 28.5" OAL on my 4-speed. I am also concerned about cooling the Lenco on the street. Not much data on these for the street, especially on the internet. Who knows, maybe it will still get used in something, some day.

My reasoning for replacing the Lenco ST1200 with a G Force GF5R was simply (marginally) driveabiliy. Having the ability to downshift in this part of the country is nice for starters. Also, as Joel said, the ability to choose numerically big gears for 1st-4th gear to compensate for highway friendly gears that allow 5th gear to be tolerable at 70mph. Add in the H pattern shifter and it doesn't seem too far fetched for a street-strip car.

I'm not 100% sure what it's going to take to put the GF5R in my Charger but we can assume that the tunnel will need a few incisions and welding will be required. Hopefully cutting the torsion bar crossmember will be avoidable. To simplify things a stock configuration Lakewood bellhousing will be used so that takes care of the clutch linkage. I'm still not 100% on what to do for a speedometer.

I'll be interested to see what you guys are doing with these aftermarket transmission installations.

If the clutch is right it won't break the 833.

Can't wait to see how the G Force box works out.

Before I ordered my Lenco ST1200 5spd, I called Liberty, Gforce, and Jerrico, and they all told me that their transmissions are race only, and not street-able...I called Tim Hyatt, and he confirmed what I was told. The face plated TKO's are not good for much over 6,000 rpm's, and are difficult to shift under a lot of power. That was what I was told.

Lenco tells me that the ST1200 is very street-able, and since I have a heavy car (GTX) 3750 lbs with driver, the Lenco is my best option. Tim Hyatt is building me a street/strip long style clutch to handle the power I will be adding to the car at a later date.

Right now I have an engine that is in the 680hp range, and when my other engine is finished, it will be in the 800 hp range.

If anyone has any pics of their Torsion bar mount mods, I would be interested in seeing them.

Jeremiah, Lenco also told me that the ST1200 can be downshifted very easily, and that what I was looking for too. I think you could adapt an electric pump, hoses, and a transmission cooler to the lenco, since the fluid flows through all of the segments. what do you think?

Mark

I have some pieces that I cut to modify the torsion bar mount. Come to think of it I have a picture here somewhere. Stay tuned for that.

Yes the Lenco will downshift, however it will freewheel on the sprag until it makes ratio. When it makes ratio it locks up the sprag. I have no first hand experience but I'm interested in the reality of this scenario.

I think you are on to something with the electric pump and hoses. This would be a modification that would be wise to engineer when you put the trans in the car. What started my thinking about heat, etc. is the lack of vent on the Lenco.

All of that said I think it will be very streetable. I should have been more careful when I mentioned downshifting though. My interest in downshifting, out here in the roller coaster West Coast, is engine braking. There are lots of 6% grades and I like to drive my beaters around a bit when they are actually running.

I agree with you on the clutch. For street/strip duty an adjustable pressure plate is a PITA. I'm interested to see how much butchery it will take to get the GF5R to fit. The next hurdle will be how to handle the application of nitrous vs. clutch use. Hopefully 2016 will be my year for car fun.

Jeremiah, Lenco is building mine with the A833 faceplate and input shaft, and Tim Hyatt is building me an 11" clutch, 143 tooth flywheel, and long style pressure plate with counter weights. he is also installing an inspection cover as well. I have the Steel lakewood BELL, and the Robbmc starter

As soon as I get it back, I will post pictures. of my clutch setup.

Yes, Hyatt is building the Pressure Plate for me.

I'd like to see the pics.

Is Hyatt building an adjustable PP?

Let me know how that works out on your input shaft. Are you using a stock 7.5" depth bell?

I have been waiting on my 18 spline input shaft and correct adapter since mid summer. I'm more that ready to get my parts. To be honest I have not had the best luck dealing with Lenco. Nice guys, but slow turn around and empty promises thus far. Did you happen to order the upgraded aerospace bearings?

No, I just ordered the heavy duty sprags, and yes my Lakewood Bell is 7.5" in depth, and 4.805 register hole.

Thank you for the picture!