anyone ever lighten lower control arms?

Wondering if it can be done safely? Please dont tell me to buy CAP lowers because they are heavier than stock

I'd leave 'em alone.
They need all the rigidity that they can receive.

Would be stella though if some one stamped them out of Titanium.

FMJ, what did you do to the strut rods?

I had aluminum ones made for my 65 Bel II. but like everything else for this car nothing is finished completely...
I'm sure FMJ has connections...

The 3-dimension construction is where the stiffness comes from. IMHO some of the connecting material can be drilled or cut away without serious loss of strength.
As the weight gets closer to the ball joint more of it is unsprung and more valuable to lighten.

When they make plates to stiffen them, it tells me they are good enough for production vehicles but not much more. Are you sure you want to go into uncharted territory and take a chance on winding up weaker than your needs?
It wouldn't be very budget friendly but here is another idea. My plan would be to make replacements out of Moly tube, and some moly plate for the shock mount and outer end. Then all that is needed is somebody that can figure out what will work for equal or greater strength.
If you are still going to run torsion bars, then you are still stuck with a lot of the weight on the inner end anyway, so it wouldn't be on my priority list unless I need to lower the front shock mount for a coilover conversion.

Aluminum struts with handmade aluminum cone washers and Titanium nuts. A little pricey on the titanium nuts, but safer than aluminum.
I have another idea that would only take about 1/2 pound off without compromising the strength, but have not done it yet because of time.
I'll explain it later. I have to run.

I made up some moly tube arms for a different application
and it worked UNTIL they were road racing and went off the
course... it folded up... I wouldnt lighten them being that
you use it on DW... you never know what the roads will be like
I would look elsewhere to drop some pounds

I have 73 spindles that look extremely heavy compared to brand x also

FMJ anyone make the aluminum strut rods any more?

I think I agree, but not sure what you are describing as " connecting material". I think you mean like a typical I beam connecting rod maybe or driveshaft, the material in the center does not add greatly to the strength in bending loads, and is the first place to start lightening with little downside. IMO, a stock LCA is very robust, and never by members here need the monkey see monkey do stiffening plates, and as OP is thinking, lightening is an option, for a non road race car.

For my old chassis I made up the lower arms and the
strut rods.. in both alum and moly.. the moly ended
up being lighter.. the alum rod was solid with it threaded
for heim joints.. the moly was tubing with weld in thread
adapters and heims.. they both worked fine but I ended up
using the moly rods... they were on there for a few years
until I built the new chassis.. that chassis was moly with
struts and a 4-link.... the old chassis was A-arm uppers
and standard style lower but home made and a ladder bar..
that whole front end was home made.. mini van alum hubs and
my own disc brake set up... it worked fine for the 135 mph I
was running at that time

Yes, I have the QA-1`s and not only are they lighter but heims make em transfer quicker which some cars like and some don`t but mine did............

Thumper, was looking at the qa1 rods but they claim a 6 lb weight reduction which has to be [censored] since my one strut rod only weighs slightly over 2 lbs. Then the $200 price tag is too much for me

I forgets the company, but I believe Mancini still carries them (Aluminum Struts)and also Just suspension or PST.
The stock struts alone weighed 6-1/4 pounds for the pair where as the aluminum struts weighed only 3 Lbs for the pair.

I've had a thought about lightening the lower control arms (but not by much at all) for a year or so now by making a new aluminum plate for the bottoming out rubber. This plate holds the bottoming out rubber snubber but also probably acts as a bridge brace for the top of the arm.
IIRC, the old plates spot welds could be drilled out and a new aluminum type installed with either strong rivets or better yet, small strong bolts and nuts and then reinstall the bottoming out rubber. Probably only would shave 1/4 pound between the both plates though.

Titanium torsion bar adjustment bolt and threaded bar? Probably not. Too much weight depends on those two pieces.

Wishful thinking? Titanium stamped lower arms. Yeah!

I also went with a titanium lower shock mount bolt and nut, but again, not much shaved unless you are looking at ounces like I am now.
There are some goodies coming down the belt soon.

So how many dollars per pound are you at now... TI parts
arent cheap

Lost count, though I do have most receipts and yes, titanium can be pricey.
If done in small increments like I do, it doesn't ruffle your wallet knowing that you're that much closer to a goal.
At most, aluminum fasteners have replaced non-crucial holdings. Titanium goes where the strength is needed and pure Factory stock steel stays where it's really crucial.
Sixpackgut, if you haven't already checked, there's an incredible amount of info on Thumperdart's "Real world weight loss program" thread further on this board.
I think that there are many more big and small places on other parts of the front end that can shed pounds more diligently and safely.

Agreed, it was more like maybe 3-4 lbs. iirc but didn`t care cos the car is looser in the ft. and launches harder plus stock arms bind a lot being rigidly mounted instead of heims.

I am in the process of changing my KOS Demon over to tubular LCA so I can lose the torsion bars and have more header room. These are HDK parts and my car is one of the gunnie pigs on this new design. They are a lot lighter than stock and will fit the stock K frame, plus being real pieces of art and I think made of 4130 CM but not positive.

In my case I am effecting a repair to wallered out holes in the front of the K frame where the pivot pin goes through, by having Denny enlarge the front of the LCA pivot pins that they supply, so my K frame hole is tight again after I drill it out to 3/4". I will also probably weld a doubler there so it stays tight. That can be done with the k-frame in the car and the engine on it. The car already has tubular uppers. HDK has a upper shock mount that goes inside the stock shock tower. Hopefully my existing tubular UCAs will clear the shock coils with his shock geometry.

These pivot on urethane bushings. They could pivot on 1/2" OD, 3/4" ID sealed ball bearings without any trouble I think, but the noise/ride would be harsher. These can use the stock or aftermarket strut rods.

I need to get a camera so I can make a thread about this.

HDK lower control arm. Except where the shock attaches the geometry is the same as stock ( I stole these pics from HDK at FABO and just noticed the lower shock mount brackets are not on those yet):

"I think made of 4130 CM but not positive."

If found to be so, as a repeatedly stressed non redundant critical part, it really should also be post weld heat treated.

I can't see these things breaking either way. Biggest load is gonna be on the pivot pin IMO, in bending from the cantilevered LCA. Those pivots are made from some kind of special steel for the application, but I can't remember what he called it.

Edit: "stressless metal" for the pivot pins, whatever that is. And the tubes are 4130, not heat treated.

inconel?

Ray, if you plate the top and bottom of the arm, you can swiss cheese the center of it pretty good, as well as trim the flanges with no loss of strength. Done several sets. Weight loss is not great though..........BUT, ounces make pounds. As you know, the biggest loss off the front of a Mopar is losing the T-bars and factory steering. That crap is heavy

AkterKation Time?

I have a rack on my car. My k frame went from 36 to 19 lbs. Im about to replace lower control arm bushings and looking for ideas while front end is apart. My car weighed 3240 at drag week and that is just to heavy to compete with fox mustangs that are out spending by at least double

this may come across as a duma$z question, but on a fabbed arm or spindle, when the assembly has to come apart, what is the correct method to disassemble the taper[ie., ball joint or tie rod stud] from the mating taper hole ? the factory parts usually have a [what i call] "beating block" you smack with a BFH to "pop" the joint apart. with fabbeb parts, that would scar them up bad, plus, more than likely, egg shape the taper, making the part[s] [in my opinion] useless. what separator, using a threaded shaft, would get the job done ?




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I havent used that type arm before but I use
a pickle fork to separate the ball joints...
I leave the nut at the end of the thread on the
ball joint.. then tap the pickle fork in between
the joint and the arm(hit it in pretty tight) then
smack the end where the nut is... that way you dont
bang on the arm itself

These tools are invaluable:

http://www.americanmuscle.biz/AMERICAN_MUSCLE_23000_Pro_Tool_Kit_p/22000.htm

That set shows both BBJ and SBJ sockets. Good price if it has both.

What kind of car are we talking about?
Maybe we can all learn something new here.
Some of the time, Some cars are worthy of taking weight off else where I guess. I could be wrong.

67 barracuda

Notch or fast back?

What color?

Anyone make the pieces to mount a coilover shock in the stock location? Thinking maybe deleting the torsion bars

Can i drill and tap the back of LCA stud and bolt it together

That is what I am doing. My K frame has oil pan and locater mods so it stays, but the LCAs were stock for the KOS class back in the day. I am putting on coil-overs to lose the torsion bars, hopefully gaining header space for a RB/440-1.

It also takes a upper shock mount that uses a real bolt. HDK makes one and I am using it, but like the LCA I am changing it to fit my car and the existing setup I have. And I already told him it should have been heat treated 4130 and half the weight.

I converted a 65 Dart to coilovers using a U shaped piece of steel with a hole drilled in the center to bolt it to the upper shock mount. Then drill a hole through cross ways for the shock. Two problems come up with this though. Number one is there may not be enough strength in the upper shock mount area to support the weight and abuse it will take. The other is you are forced to run very short shocks which limited my total travel some.
To help with the strength issue I used a 5/8 bolt for the upper end of the shock. The bolt is very long so I could put some spacers on either side to get out to where I could make some weld on brackets to put that long bolt through, and weld to the frame rail. If you decide to try this make sure you know how much room you will have for those brackets. I put some seriously wide (8.5 x 18) front rims on and it cost me just a little turning radius with only flat plates (1/4 inch) welded to the chassis.

Here's what I did to mine.

STEFF did you weigh before and after?

mr. p body, i'm not a big fan of pickle forks, although i have used them before. it seems every time i've used them, the boot got tore up no matter how careful i was using it. any other suggestions ?

Oh well.... when I was working on the pre proto F-body
front suspension I had to pull about 12 ball joints a
day so I could set up for another front end(this was the
transverse bars).. yeah once in a while I would tear a
boot.. but not often... I HAD to make sure the fork was
under the boot.. on both sides of it.. I actually cut the
angle down on my pickle fork so it went in on a easier angle
EDIT
plus I always put grease on the fork so it slides on the boot

Nice Steff. That is what I have been thinking also

My comment on your lightening, IMO there is one glaring point where a failure might occur, (EVERY item has a failure point) its on the second LCA pictured, on the top of the LCA (which in use is the bottom), approx 2"? to the left of the pivot point, right above where the adjuster loads against the arm. That area is in tension under load, with the removed flanges in this area. I think this one area is overlightened relative to the rest of the arm, and simply adding back minimum flanges on both sides, or boxing the two sides together would reduce the stress concentration. Is it a big deal, not likely. This mod maybe already in the cards as I have no idea if this a progress pic or completion.

And weights before and after would make for good discussion.

I don't remember the before & after weights. A couple pounds maybe? I've been running these things for quite awhile with plenty of street miles and many "wheels up" launches at the track. They are plenty strong enough. No worries what so ever. I didn't plate the area where the T-Bar adjuster was due to not knowing at the time how much room I needed for the adjuster, and once I got them on the car I was going to measure and then take them back off and add a plate to box them. Never did though and again, not sure it needs to be, based on the abuse they've already taken.

That's good, but it would be the area I looked at first when doing regular check overs.

here is a pic of my stock shock towers. Do you guys that have done a front coil think they will be strong enough for coilovers?

also thinking about hole sawing my frame connectors. I have a 12 point cage in the car anyway and was thinking the heavy 2x2 square tubing is just adding weight

You're probably better off buying chrome-moly square tubing and welding those in.
I have though of this for a minute now being that I also did as you did, used heavy square steel tubing for frame connectors.

I would suggest you not revisit the Swiss Cheese debacle of 63'from yours truly: Pontiac related.

One area of the LCA's that I gave some serious thought to was the Torsion bar adjusting bolt and threaded sleeve to both be made out of Titanium. Though this may sound contradicting along other parts I have made/purchased in lightweight alloys, something about that load area makes me a deer in the lights. I only wish they could be stamped out of the elusive alloy and then I could sleep in bed, not at the tree. LOL.

I would add a few gussets in the right places and maybe a Chrome-moly bar or two triangular to that set up for strength, especially after a wheels up launch.

Contrary to the front end, I just received my new Launcher springs today from Tri-city and they weigh 90 Lbs for the pair.
I'll see what my El-cheapo RJS made in Mehico SS springs weigh compared to these new brutes.

Here is what Im thinking. If I go coil over, i can hack my lower control arms like Steff did. Maybe even more. I lose the weight of the t bars, the adjuster bolt and tab thing, cut out the lever. Maybe take a good look at the spindles for weight reduction.

Magnumforce sells coilover kits for to much money to use in the stock shock mount.

I would have to say that the Spindles are probably no-mans land as far as weight reduction. I think there are some 72'-73' Spindles that have less mass in their casting and thus far lighter by a pound or less. I haven't found them to compare against mine though.
About the only thing that can possible be done there are the two massive spindle mounting bolts and nuts in Titanium, along with about 16 castle nuts in titanium. EX$penSive indeed it would be.
I'm saving my wooden nickels.

1Lb 11oz so far and more to come when i cut that huge lump of steel the torsion bar goes into

Ray you could delete all your front end pinch welds on the frame.
Time consuming, but I'll bet there's some weight to be lost.

Matt

Would cost more.......but the LIGHT way to fix this is go to a Pinto style spindle and the coilovers. You would have to fab or buy lower control arms and Pinto spindle brakes. But then you lose the torsion bars, gain coilovers, a better lower control arm and better overall suspension. You could even lose the K-member and just put in a rack crossmember

Thanks Monte but I have no money or I should say no money Im willing to spend on the car. I think another crash is in our immediate future. Anyway...

FMJ, how much do those ti bolts cost? Cuz I just lost almost a lb on one spindle

Oh and i am ditching the torsion bars

I got a quote a while back for $25.00 per bolt. That is of course, titanium units, not Aluminum. But it only shaves about a 1/4 Lb.per spindle since Titanium is only about a 1/4 lighter than steel. Only good if you're chasing ounces.