It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available

I guess Mopar doesn't want us to race their stuff. They have left us with the choice of Indy (marginal) HP Performance (not sure what the story is there) or KB (put you money down and clinch the sphincter for 9 months to a year} for aluminum, and no steel Big Block cores except stock. Will weigh this heavily on the next build.

It's time to step up to Hemi power.
I'm working on getting a top Alcy motor and sticking a set of twins on it.
It will take a wile for me to finish but it will be worth it.

I'm looking at a set of Veney single plug and kb 526 with twins.

At least you big block guys have 3 making blocks. Nobody as far as I know are making a aftermarket block for a small block.

Don't forget the Koleno block. That was a pretty big blow to block market for us also.

I called my warehouse today about a Dart Big M block for customer build on big inch Chevy--they had two deck heights in 4 bore sizes with two main cap material choices IN stock Free delivery starting around $1600 and..USA made--My parts dealer drop shipped from one of their other warehouse direct to my customer for FREE
I have had lots of fun with Mopars and raced one for over 20 years but I am racing a Chevy now in my vintage front engine dragster--
Mopar was fun while it lasted

When i talked to mancini about the R block i was told mopar add who ever was casting the blocks to there BK so the block supplyer said no thanksto casting any more blocks why they wont sell the core boxes to someone like dart or world makes no sense im sure they would sell not everone wants a gen 3 motor

OK OK
IF KB has a 9 month waiting list with deposits he need to walk in the bank with those orders, Borrow enough money to buy more equipment and hire more people and fill those orders and make some money like a real business would. Since they have not I can only conclude that the REAL market for that product can be met with the system that is in place thus..the REAL demand for a quality Mopar block is not near what you may think
Right???????
And anyone that would buy an Indy POS and put up with that guy is just not smart IMO
\

I called Indy the other day and Russ Flagle got on the phone. Boy was that an eye opener.
I asked him about their Indy blocks and availability and options that they do for their customer. He asked me if Indy was going to do the build for me.
I said no, just want to buy the block and a few of their inhouse modifications and told Russ I will assemble it myself. He hung up on me.

Well.... a year ago I ran the part number for a Mega Block at work. Only good news there was that there was one at a dealer, but not for sale, and that the part number still showed 6 on back order. Try and order a R3 and it kicks it back NS1... no longer made. At least with the big block they're still teasing that it "might" be available.

It's sad for sure.

But guys will still continue to bandaid stock blocks along.


PATHETIC. Fiat sucks.

Talk to the engine builders...

Look at the Jeg's catalog...

Look at the Summit catalog...

Look at Mancini Racing(now stocking Ford, and GM pieces)...


Look at 'Mopar Performance'...


The ship has sailed...

I had thoughts of being able to do a Mopar Stock or Super Stock project before I assume room temperature. After 35 plus years, seems kind of silly to even consider that at this point. Even a decent Chrysler based bracket/super class deal seems like a big PIA anymore. Why beat your head against the wall or use patched up, hand me down parts?

Thanks for nothing, Tony.

I talked to those ass clowns years ago and wanted to reach through the phone and strangle em...........no class, rude as hell and think they`re the only gig in town......

Mopar sure knows how to step on their own testicles time after time after time..... It gets embarrassing from the performance end of things when they take FOREVER to put something nice out there and to keep a supply going and then they discontinue parts after a short run....

I see it all the time from the dealership, OEM parts perspective also and I HATE telling a customer that a part for their POPULAR made vehicle that is less than 10 years old has been discontinued.........

Someone of Facebook said they were making the Gen 2 Hemi blocks again. Anyone hear any rumors of them bringing them back? No telling how much they would be this time around if they did make more.

NO!!

I think World still has aluminum ones?!?

World lists them in aluminum. I have no idea on their availability.

Is the holdup at KB on the casting or the machining? S/F....Ken M

I'm glad, I insisted on 4.040, on my R1, 1994 59* block. Unless there is a catastrophic rotating failure,@62 years young, I think I can make it to retirement, before going +.030.

There's gotta be some one/company/entity keeping more Mopar aftermarket blocks from being produced. There's a demand for a product. Is it the lack of interest,cost of manufacturing, design limitations, what...?

No there isn't enough interest in this stuff. Fiat knows that and they are killing off 90% of the performance line.

Just go back and read the threads from this year alone....cross bolting noncrossbolt blocks, caps, girdles blah blah blah. Chrysler guys almost NEVER spend money on blocks. I can say why but I won't.

I've been on the aftermarket block deal for DECADES now. I usually don't say much about it anymore. I just gave up. Much like telling guys they SHOULD dyno their engines EVERY time. Always. Just so you know where you are at. Then I get called a crook and am told I just need to pay for my dyno.

I don't see any change in the future, unless it's for the worse.

I guess I should be happy I received my KB aluminum wedge block in July 2014.

I still watch the koleno block facebook page religiously. It's been almost a year since their last post but I still have a glimmer of hope they can get the operation going again.

Pretty sad.
I believe Fiat's goal is to push the Gen3 stuff & leave the rest in the scrap bin.

They aren't really supportin genIII either, no siamese bores, not even 6.1 blocks, no factory codeing being released for computers, no more drag pak intakes and when they did have em it was $1000 for a cast AL intake with no water passages to worry about I mean how simple of an intake can you make? then a computer and harness for retrofits from mopar is like $5000 or something stupid, eagle heads were about $200 each 4 short years ago now they are $1000+

On the surface you would think they want us to go gen III but the reality is they don't even care about that. Self driving cars will be all the rage in 10 years for "conveniance" then your car with a driver will be outlawed because they are "too dangerous" they will offer us another cash for clunkers for our 71 hemi cudas and that will be that. Of course then speed limits can go away as the computer can react better than us, driverless cars don't need a stop sighn as they can tell each other when they are around the corner and all the yuppies can yak on the phone, text and play with their tablet while they drive, of course then you don't need to even be in the car just send it to McDonalds and they can put the order in the drivers window and the car will bring it back to you.

I hear ya ... sell us what we "need",but not what we want.
Them: "trust us, we know what's best for the consumer"

Mopar gave this block away at Indy a few weeks ago.

The whole performance thing is basically going out
the window.. drag racing is old history.. sponsors
dont want to fund this stuff anymore... so why should
the auto companies...hot rod dave.. you give the industry
a bit more credit than they deserve.. most people like to
drive.. I worked on driverless cars 15 years ago and we ran
then on the test track for a couple of years but it flopped
out but we used in the concrete sensor wire.. now days its
all gps

Thought I seen that at the display on vendor row....what was the story on the give away?

Probably the last one in the warehouse and they said
get rid of it...either trash it or something.. I seen
so MUCH stuff get trashed when I was working at CTC
that people would FREAK out.. I know I did for a few
years.. I grabbed a bunch of the JUNK

I don't know much about it. I don't know if that was an old block that was squirreled away or what? I think there was some dinner or something at the Mopar tent and they gave it away. I wish I would have went to Indy this year.

LOL.....I was there but never took time to visit the display.....dangit!

The economy is going to boom in about a year.

In the Detroit area the economy is doing well..
house sale, home building, prices on homes are
going up... but dont expect that drag racing will
come back... its history... it will slowly go by
the way side... I wish it wouldnt but thats what
I see coming

I agree with a lot of the above. Maybe I'm out in left field but here goes... No one has mentioned this yet, but when Chrysler/Fiat publicly reminisces or refers to the past they never fail to mention the legacy and value associated with their classics. A lot of what we pay for parts value wise is affected by the investor market. Value and availability affect each other.
Many investors could give a rats butt about us or our sport, or that some of us would like a reasonably priced block to make more power with. Very few have probably driven north of 6k rpm in anything. But, taper down production of a few parts and add value to your investments...think about it. That's why the tooling isn't released so easily. They control the strings.
The other problem is that tracks have closed in a lot of places. A lot of my generation (even more in those younger than mine) has no attachment to or interest in hot rodding, wrenching or anything associated with power. They'd rather watch reality frighin TV. I just left drag week at the Grove and i left with even more respect for those guys and girls and our sport than I had before. They're doing stuff that very few have the nuts,knowledge,will, and luck to try much less excel at.
Unless more interest transfers to the folks 40 and younger ( my group) more tracks will close and event venues will dwindle. Sad but true.

MrP there was no facebook, tablets and cell phones 15 years ago now every one can't seem to drive without being glued to one, I think 3 out of 4 people would just as soon have a i-pad to look at instead of the road.

I know I'm a odd ball.. I do have a smart phone but I
dont use it on the road... it has voice mail so can
pick it up when I want... and thats not when driving..
people just need to learn to drive and leave the BS
along till you can pick it up... we by law here cant use
the phone/text while driving... but they do need to get
more strict on it.... there is nothing so important that
I have to answer right then...I might look to see if its
the wife with a 911.. but thats never happened
EDIT
I dont do facebook... people give out WAY TO MUCH info

Why would Fiat care about something they were never part of and in reality the money they would make would be very small. Im sure they wouldnt care if the mopar racers bout other brand cars and trucks...how much would they really give up.

I do think one day our cars will be looked at very differently then they are today. How long till ebay restricts feeding the old car market?

I meant Chrysler royalties. They still exist and transfer to Fiat. I agree that they have absolutely no cares in the world for us. If the original casting molds meant nothing to Fiat, though I would think that they'd jump at the chance to sell them. They know what they're worth as long as people are around that treasure the cars of that era.

Does anybody know how many blocks World produced and how long it took to sell them?

Tooling is tooling and you buy cast iron by the ton so I don't see the unit cost of a Mopar block being any more than any other readily available Brand X product that can be had all day long for half the price.

I think a lot has to do with these suppliers are more concerned with selling what they like instead of what people want. Go to Carlisle sometime and try to buy a part for a C-body from a vendor that advertises them for sale. A trailer full of all the other letters and half of it gets hauled back to the shop. Standard excuse? We never sell any of that stuff. I have suggested numerous times that you can't sell it if you don't bring it. They just look at you like you're nuts.

I have no idea what it costs to produce a Mopar block but I was in an aluminum diecast foundry a few years ago that made V6 blocks for some of the major OEMs and I was told the unit cost was in the $250 range. Apples to pomegranates perhaps because of the different economy of scale but an outfit like World that is a big player in the performance aftermarket should be able to produce an iron Mopar block and sell it for a price that isn't double and then some of Brand X and still make money if the unit cost is similar and sell every one they make.

Just like they did the last time.

Kevin

I wouldn't be surprised if they wait until the demand gets even higher....and then sell them for an even higher price. You can't make thousands unless you make hundreds.

Like madscientist said though, for every one of us that would buy one, there are three guys that would buy a cherry 230 or 630 block for too much $ and stick 1200 bucks or more of machining, caps, etc into it instead of springing for a new block. Bottom line is, if the opportunity does come up, purchasing has to mirror verbal desires or it might be the last one period.

The answer to this question is VERY simple.........PROFIT MARGIN. Dart, World, Brodix and any other number of companies could EASILY tool up and make both big and small Mopar blocks. Problem is, they can't sell enough of them. You guys seem to think the demand is high and that's wrong. The demand is not high even on this little website, much less the hobby in general. IF there was money to be made.......SOMEBODY would be making it.
Like it or hate it, Mopar people are notoriously known for NOT supporting the aftermarket and the available parts show that.........Sure, there is a boat load of mildy warmed over factory style heads out there, but there ain't a nickels worth of difference in any of them. So why is THAT area so well supported and nothing else?.........because THAT is what the majority of Mopar people buy and do. Mildy warmed over stock type stuff. There hasn't been a serious effort Big block head is decades and won't be, because there is nobody to buy them

There has GOT to be more to this story. Russ is not the most personable guy out there, we all know that. But they have never treated me anything less than good and I have never had any more issues with an INDY block than any other brand of block. Plus they sell lots of blocks............so there is more to this story.

Many lament the lack of blocks and that's true for an iron block. But you can order an INDY alum block and have it in a few weeks. You don't want to deal with INDY, fine, buy it through a dealer instead, but don't say you can't get one, because you can. As far as work needed. I usually spend about the same prep time on an INDY as I have to on an aftermarket Donovan block, so I don't understand all the fuss myself. You want a PERFECT block, ready to drop parts in when you uncrate it.........sorry, I don't really know where you get those for ANY brand. I just spent about two days prepping a 12k billet block for a Chevy build. You would think at 12k, that block would be ready to throw parts in, but it's far from it........so not sure what guys expect from a 5k INDY block

I disagree with some of you to an extent...the demand is alot lower then if could be because of price period.
My 48* block cost 2400 and needed another 2000+ in machine work which I think kills the normal dudes desire.
If Dart can do for a mopar sb what they do for an iron eagle you could sell twice the amount which I beleive is a few hundred blocks a year.4800 or 2500 complete is a HUGE difference.

I agree with Monte on this one. We don't spend the money on the high dollar aftermarket parts.

Take a look at the Jeg's catalog from 10 years ago... and today.

What do you see:
purple shaft cams
super stock springs
electronic ignition kits
pinion snubbers

This must be what sells to Mopar enthusiasts.

It costs a LOT to tool up and make blocks. Chevy blocks are cheaper because they sell a gazillion of them. Aftermarket Mopar blocks will NEVER be as cheap as Chevy and Ford..........and if that is what the guys are waiting for, something CHEAP.........just build a Chevy and be done with it.

Guys EXPECT to pay more for HEMI parts. Now why is that? Cast iron is cast iron. A crank is a crank and a rod is a rod, yet HEMI parts cost more, we all know it and we accept it. WHY? because they are pretty scarce, that's why. In the performance world, especially aftermarket, Mopars are also pretty scarce, as compared to Chevy and Ford. Scarcity means EXPENSIVE and that will never change on hard to find parts. So if the main point of contention, or lack of buying is based on a Mopar block SHOULD cost the same as Chevy............well you can just forget that nonsense. NEVER gonna happen

Engineering, tooling, core boxes, foundry costs, machining, all costs the same, regardless of the brand. For all intents and purposes, all small blocks will cost the same to produce.......HOWEVER......one type you will sell 10,000 a year and the other a few hundred. strictly based on return for investment, the one you sell few of HAS to cost more. It's simple business. These companies sell parts to make money, not because we NEED them, or they feel sorry for a segment

You can type your fingers to the bone, talk until your tongue wears your teeth to nubs and the Chrysler guys will NEVER get that GM outsells the Chrysler 500:1 at a MINIMUM. I have a rule in engine building and that is any small block over 500 HP MUST have an aftermarket block and ANY 600 HP BB gets an aftermarket block. Try and sell that to a MoPar guy who thinks Trick Flow heads with stock intake and exhaust patterns and stock rockers is going to revolutionize his world, when for a few bucks more he could do a B1 and KILL the TF head. But no, they whine about really little money. I call that stepping over donuts to scoop up dog turds.

Nope, the backwards MoPar culture is it's own killer. It's a slow grisly death, but a death none the less.

If I was seriously racing again I'd do it with a "BBC", quotes used because GM never made a 5.0 bore spacing block, but they call it a chevy. Why would you waste your time with anything else?

Having searched for a tall deck R3 for serveral months, I almost gave up. Internet searching and countless phone calls netted me one, in fact 2 of them. Did I pay lots for them you bet. Is this going to slow progress on my new ride you bet. I paid up amd moved on.

We had nothing before and guess what we still raced. I am hopeful that eventually things will come full circle and we will see some new blocks in the near future.

I'll agree with Monte and others on the costs. If it costs one million dollars (just an example to make the math easy for me) to tool up a block casting, you have to amortize that cost over how many blocks you think you can sell. If the Chevy guys will buy 10,000 blocks, then that is $100 per block. If a Hemi/RB block sells only 1000 units, then that adds $1000 per block to the costs. If it takes ten years to sell the 1000 blocks, then they need to take that into account by figuring the present value of the sales, or keep raising the price of the block every year to compensate for the time value of money.

If I understand it right, Chrysler pulled the tooling out of World Products for the cast iron blocks. So, hopefully, that means the tooling still exists to be used and/or modified by another casting house. A small glimmer of hope anyway.

True.......BUT, that head came as a direct result of the DRCE program. So that's as much Chevy as anything...........well Oldsmobile really. They are called that, because WJ was sponsored by Olds during the development, so they were Olds heads. The big bore space was designed for IHRA Pro-Stock

Can always slap some Mopar stickers on the valve covers of the 5.0 motor and say they are "Eicke" heads...........who would know the difference.........LOL

Think I got the last 9.20 deck siamese R3 block from the Warren MI depot delivered to work for $2400..... by the time I got to the dance, the party was over. Sad to think that if I hurt the block, all the other associated parts on it are deemed useless.

Can't argue with Monte's & madscientist's assessment.
Pretty much boils down to there's not enough of us & at times we're our own worst enemy.
Kinda in the same boat the B.O.P. & AMC guys are in.

We had a guy on the Slant board call Edelbrock and tell the sales guy that if Edelbrock cast an aluminum head for a Slant they would sell "thousands" of them. I got my pee-pee slapped for calling him a fooking idiot.

Truth is, I have personally been involved in 3 attempts to get an alloy head done and we could never even get 10 people to commit to buying one so the project always died.

Kinda the same as what is happening with the big and small blocks, even when people are willing to build a good part, too few are willing to buy it.

The bright side is there will always be someone come along and call you a dream crusher when you point out the facts of why nobody wants to make Mopar parts.

Yeah, mopar blocks are hard to get. KB is still the best block, and they're still, despite all adversity trying to get it done. They, like many businesses that need foundries struggle because the military is keeping too many of them tied up making real money.

I've had 2 KB's ordered for a long while now. Sucks to wait, but at least they're not cramming junk in a box, and calling it a block.

Want more mopar parts? Crack open the wallet and start spending. The economy is rocking. Turn off the TV, and look around instead. EVERYONE I know in real business is overrun with no end in site.

Chevy is abundant for one reason only. People spent money for products offered. The old mopar saying, mostly old parts and rust is why stuff is limited.

Too bad since the fastest, and quickest drag cars on the planet are based on mopar tech. Notice there is no shortage of Brads, TFX, and the like? Money in parts out.

Chevrolet/GM have always had a larger share of the automobile market in the U.S. than Ford or Chrysler. Having the numbers of people willing to buy products is a plus, can't argue with the economics of it. The restoration market is the only place i see an abundance of parts for older Mopars.

Actually, when making billet blocks it doesn't cost hardly anymore to make any block. The problem is we don't have a leader. If we did he would be offering B/RB/Hemi billet blocks, really ready to assemble, to ship this afternoon (in one of the stocking configurations) for $5,995. I would love to do it. I have the money, the shop and the inclination, like one of my heros, Keith Black. The problem is I am too old, too busy and never learned CNC machining like I should have. If I had a set of prints and a knowledgeable man to train me you would have blocks.

And been flogging the 'competition' for 50+ years...

Imagine what would be if the 'R&D' was a level playing field...

If you find the drawings, I'd donate my time to model the block in CAD. Then after that, we just need someone willing to write the CNC programming for it.

So where is the Bill Mitchell Products aluminum block in all of this? World doesn't make cast iron blocks because Chrysler took back the casting stuff, but I understood that Bill Mitchell kept the aluminum engine tooling. It's on his website right now, Hemi or 440, stock bore or 4.49. $5500 list.

Last year I saw the aluminum blocks advertised by a speed shop in Aurora CO, on Craigslist. They didn't seem to have any problem getting them then.....Ray Barton has a BMP Hemi block on his site.

R.

Good luck in getting a mitchell/world block

I would have to find out what the aluminium would cost for a block, but I don't imagine it's cheap. I have thought about doing a billet block and heads for myself, with no blocks available, it may happen just yet. It's one of those things I tinker away with when I get the urge.

Who are producing Hemi Blocks? A friend is chasing a couple for engine jobs.

You can buy Pontiac Blocks. You tell me there is a bigger demand for a Pontiac aftermarket block than a Big Mopar?

http://butlerperformance.com/products/engines_assemblies/indian_blocks.html
Doug

Because MORE of the Poncho guys are willing to spend the money. Small market share or not, they SPEND money and don't complain their parts cost more. They just want them and are willing to pay

And whoever can make a billet block for 5K, sign me up. I will commit to 4 right now.

Billet blocks for other brands are in the 10-12k range..........so how you going to make a Mopar for half that.

I've said for years, we Mopar guys are our own worst enemy! How many times have we seen "it doesn't look like a 906 or will my stock rocker arms work?

I don't give a flying rip! Make some parts that will make and take some HP and I'll buy them! The valves aren't in a straight line and my stock rocker set up won't work, so what. All things evolve except Mopar guys, we're stuck in the 70's.

If i can get a R3 block, 9.600" deck and 48* lifter bores for $2,500 I will buy it RIGHT NOW! As stated the old mopar thinking about "stock looking and stock valve train" has killed us. i will most likely be going to Gen III hemi for my next engine build. Also I'm still running a stock magnum block and pushing the 800hp-1000hp mark with it because good luck finding a R3 block out there....

I've been racing since 1978, and working as a parts counterman since the same year. IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE SAME WITH DIRECT CONNECTION/MOPAR PERFORMANCE. It's nothing new. Things they have listed, have ALWAYS been on backorder. When a customer has the urge to buy, and there isn't any inventory, they cease to create new demand. It's disposible income. Plus, what demographic, has other brand customers in another disposable income bracket? Tell you what, take Jegs part number 301-31161211, and add the additional $1,000.00 bs Mopar surcharge, and that Dart block will die on the inventory vine, from lack of sales.

Sad ................but true.

I am too old to fight it anymore --I have raced Mopars since I was a 16 year old and enjoyed it and all the friends I have made in the Mopar world but....I have been racing a small block Chevy for the last year in my nostalgia front engine dragster--It has been the best drag car I have ever had--building the engine I have now was Easy and Cheap and it runs Fantastic! I looked around my shop yesterday and I have three other SBC engines sitting on stands just waiting to be raced--they are built and sitting there because I can't go out of the house without tripping over good Chevy race parts dirt cheap--and new parts are same way--I am a happy man! And ,,if I want a new block one call and one day it is delivered to my shop for Free any deck, any bore, etc
No more "Mopar Tax" for me

It's because other than the 50's engines and the 301, all Pontiacs share the same block from a 326 to a 455.
With mopars you have two different big blocks that you would need to make, plus a small block.
There's just no profit in that.

Wonder how much Kent Ritter sunk into getting his small block made...... and most of us know how that ended up.

So what are you saying? The solution to no production of R3 blocks is to switch to a BLOWtie mill?

More like 12 months. I ordered a hemi block last Dec and haven't heard a peep. I'm not in a hurry but throwing $3500 out there and not hearing anything for 10 months is a little frustrating.

I'm in a quandary now with a MW Victor build. I had a block machined and aluminum caps installed and I stopped half way through because I doubt the block will survive. But there's no aftermarket cast iron blocks available to use. I've been waiting and hoping Koleno gets back running but will probably just order an Indy aluminum wedge block this fall (anyone one want to give me a quote?).

Was the $3500 the deposit on the block?

I was told the material alone is 4k.
5k you will be paying to make them

yes. to be honest I don't even remember what the exact price was.

Add me to those in a quandry. I hurt my engine last weekend. If my R3 block is hurt I'm pretty hosed. Can't find a replacement.

Seriously considering putting a Big Chevy in it.

Well, it's the new age, "let them eat cake" syndrome. If I would have known this is the way it was going to go, I would have gone the GM designed stuff a long time ago. Was looking at the Sunset Performance Engine site yesterday. Look at what they have. They are proven engines for 60% of what I have in Predator stuff. The SR20 598 stuff runs as hard as my Predator. Check out the link.
http://sunsetperformanceengines.com/

That SR20 is a nice head. One of our engineers built a 582 for his Drag Week car with those heads. Pretty mild cam and compression for the street duty........still made well over 900hp on the dyno at Holley

What the old saying ... "Speed costs money son, how fast do you want to go?"

My car will never be at the power level that some of you guys run, so i can get by on stock blocks ... 3 spares.
A this point if i was to jump in head first bttw, i would probably start new with a Winsor based Ford of some kind.

Yeah,
That 615 SR20 deal is a great price for that kind of power. Do you have any idea how close they (Sunset) comes to the power they advertize?

Yes, but then you would be driving a Chevy. Think about that.

Hard to believe there aren't any GOOD Chevy websites for some of you chevy racers. Just sayin???????????

Uh....yes I have considered that. As Mopar has dropped me in the mud along with many others, I can live with myself. Also, I prefer to call it a PBRM, Purpose Built Race Motor! If it hurts people's feelings to be asking questions on Moparts in the race and tech section, about I can ask on the Bullet. Then again, perhaps we should change the name of this forum to be "old antiquated Mopar race and tech section".

Schumacher should start making conversion mounts for Chevy engines into Mopars, seems to be a high demand for them here.

LOL No need, most of us are using motor plates in our racecars.

Mopar has driven people elsewhere.. for multiple
reasons... lack of parts and the price... now days
its just the total lack of parts... as others have
said.. if they break their R3 blocks they have a
pile of useless parts

Why is there always a ****ing contest even when comparing R&D and cost difference between brands?

The B/RB engine is a 57 year old design, what has the Chrysler Corporation or an aftermarket company done in R&D to improve it in the last 25-30 years compared to the other two brands?
At this point unless you want to spend $$$$$$$$$$ on a Hemi the BBC is the next option if you want to make lots of power ... I even talked to a retired Chrysler engineer that made that claim.

I have no intention in switching brands, but i have the understanding of being at a disadvantage when it comes to performance parts, especially factory engineered parts.

I'm looking out for the little guys, not you fancy motor plate people. With every stock block thread the amount of power they can hold drops 50 horsepower. Soon it will be under stock specs and all big block cars will require an LS swap!

.....and I was squirming watching that 9.0 deck R3 short block sell for $1200 last Saturday...... and that included the uber expensive head studs. Parts availability is the only reason I bought that other complete engine last year. Waste of money just sitting here..... but it's a risk to stay in the game.

Pretty sure the hard-core Mopar camp here is less than enthused by the cheap shots, and constant 'rah-rah'rah' by the brand X contingent in this, a 'Mopar Race&Engine Tech' thread...

. Yes it is a mopar website and I love nothing better than out running most of the brand X stuff with my budget outdated mopar junk. Woop te du his Chevy powered skateboard runs good. Just how good does that piece of junk run. Maybe he should start bragging it up on Super Chevy, the myth the ledgion.

Ya'll brought it up--you can't get blocks to make big power--You CAN"T You are not going to get any soon--SOOOOOOO we are just saying ....If you want to LOVE MOPAR more than go fast then get a few Mopar tats--Never look at anything other than Mopar etc etc BUT..if you want to keep racing and have options they are out there--Guess what? You can still keep your Mopars--Like I have--and my wifes Miata, and whatever else I see I like I will get --it don't have to be 100% Mopar for life at our shop --thats all I am saying.
And ...my skate board is built as a light weight race car--not a converted grocery getter--Cool concept--the burn out is so much fun you want to back up and do it again! Ya can't blow them off if you ain't got them!!!

I ordered my block and a short time later was asked for a deposit, 6 months later it was on my tailgate heading for home. You got to plan ahead in this game and form a direction. Now for guys that can't plan ahead, form a direction, or stay in contact with the person you ordered the parts from, STICK WITH CHEVY OR FORD.

So you bought a alum BB...I'll take 2 SB
ones.... if you have them
EDIT
I bought one of the last mega blocks for my B1m/c
project..but sold all of it when I couldnt get my
license anymore... I stayed with my SB stuff since

X2 what he said

There are good prices on r5 and p7 stuff. Lots of power potential, and plentiful parts. Just need to do a bit of homework.
Oh yeah... They are covered in mopar logos!

I was just looking on koffles place website and there getting ready to start taking orders for there KP block...
http://www.b1heads.com/index.html

So 3900 is the number for a good block. If it can be had reliably when needed and is a quality piece there is no need of bitchin anymore.

Personally, I think that's an old add. But I do agree, although expensive for a steel block, I agree it is worth the money. The last time I spoke with them, they wanted to build the engine, not just sell the block. I'm going to guess they are out by now.

I think your right, I remember that add back when the Koleno blocks were being made.

I am pretty sure the "k-p 440" are koleno blocks, note the bear paw marking. same as the blocks on here http://www.kolenoperformance.com/index.html. So sadly they aren't being produced anymore.

Yep,, and very strange that the web site is still up and running.. Just maybe there is hope on more of their blocks down the road??

On September 29th of last year they made a post on facebook saying they are trying to get back into production. They haven't updated since though.

We're all screwed fellas. Step up to old pro stuff or slow it down and save the blocks. I'm just happy to already have a couple of aftermarket blocks

How come DSR could not make a big block has any one contacted them to ask they build all there blocks in house

IMHO it depends on what kind of car you are running, I run a 64 Savoy in NSS, before moving east I ran the same car out west but was a points running bracket racer. Would I drop a GM engine in it, not a chance, just wouldn't be right. But if I was running a dragster, altered, or one of the super classes with a 74 Dart, it wouldn't bother be a bit to run a GM motor. it just makes financial sense if your a typical working man. Ten or fifteen years ago I wouldn't have said that. Just my humble opinion, Id look at it the same way if I had a street driver muscle car, Be it a Mopar, GM or Ford, Id keep the engine manufacturer the same as the car. Quick 16 dragster? Id be running what makes sense, dedicated race engine, manufactured by people who claim its a Chevy

If you put a 440 in a Mustang would it be a Motang?

Been thinking about putting a gen III hemi into a fox mustang with a turbo, almost bought a roller couple weeks ago but still got to finish my junk first.

I think if you really want mopar stuff you can get it. In the last few years I have come up with several motors with aftermarket RB blocks. I bet you could go on RJ and purchase 2 or 3 motors (hemi or RB) with aftermarket blocks. We all know some mopar guys beat to a different drummer and people don't want to deal with them. Sometime I understand Indys no customer service. I tried to order B1 TTI headers from them and they would not sell them to me. You don't want my money, no problem. No big deal I went straight to TTI. I did not even tell Russ I have 2 other Indy -1 motors. I don't even race seriously but a few times a year. I would think a hard core race guy would mingle with other mopar guys that would be getting rid of parts. Who know maybe I just that lucky and need to play the Lotto.

BTW- there 2 aftermarket Hemi blocks for sale right now on here under Hemi engines!

EXACTLY. There is stuff out there for sale but you have to be ready to buy. I picked up the small block earlier this year for 7500 dollars. That's a lot of money but when you get a machined R3 block, new pistons, rods, crank, (422 assembly) 360-1 heads, rockers, fab valve covers, and a few other things all new in boxes it adds up real quick. Unassembled just how I want it.

Here's another angle, friend has a Corvette 4.70 car, bought a 632 big chief dynoed 1400 hp for $9500. Had his pick of high hp top of the line power cheap. Now the Mopar guys beat the stuff into the ground, window the blocks and STILL want big money for this junk. Try to find any patched Hemi block or heads for under $2000, 50 year old parts. Big parts seller at Carlisle said he didn't bring any Hemi parts this year because they didn't sell well last year. I told him if he brought the prices down to earth he would sell all he had, just looked at me funny. Same mentality with these aftermarket blocks, won't buy because too high but want a fortune for there junk. Bow tie guys at least have good trickle down parts supply.

So it's not that the parts aren't available. It's Mopar guys don't want to spend the money. Like I said before some mopar guys beat to a different drummer. GM has been doing that same thing for a long time. You can buy a Chevy, GMC, Or Cadillac with a a similar model for different price. It's marketing! This is with the same manufacture. Compare watches by different manufactures like Timex, Fossil, Tag and Rolex and see what you get. You can get them with all the same features and reliability at a very different cost.

How can one say mopar guys are cheap? We have been paying double or more all my life. Where can you get a 600" 1400 hp mopar engine for double the $9500 big chief?

As for the hemi not getting real R&D in 40 years... we are just waiting for chevy to catch up, the biggest and baddest chevys are moving the valve closer and closer to a hemi arrangement, when they get there they will declare it the latest innovation and no better valve arrangement is possible and it was all their idea.

There was a time, not so long ago, when those four letters meant NOTHING...


I had a shot at a '68 Hemi 4-speed RR for $500.00 in '79...


This transition from scrap to gold is totally rooted in 'portfolio'...


And the WWW, along with'Barrett-Jackson', didn't help...

I didn't say they cheap. I said they don't want to spend the money. Where can I get a Rolex for the price of a Timex??? Some Timex perform better than the Rolex.

Why is it that all I here is Mopar guys are cheap? We pay more for our stuff than other makes. That's cheap? There's more Pontiac guys willing to spend Money? Really? Where did that statement come from? The price to make 100 specialty blocks is the same no matter whose name is cast into it. Limited run will be more costly. I don't know about anyone else but I don't see many 800-900hp Pontiac's when I go to the track. Yet you can buy an aftermarket Pontiac iron blocks for $3195 Butler, $3095 Tin Indian, Kaufman $2995 about the same money as a Mopar, except we have none available. Tell me guys, know anyone that runs a Pontiac at your local track? I see plenty of Indy BB Mopars at all the tracks I've run, Norwalk, Quaker City, Milan, Mid Michigan. Even at NMCA events I can't remember seeing more than 2-3 heads up Pontiacs. Don't get me wrong I know a few guys that have a fast aftermarket Pontiac stuff, And it's probably faster than most of the Mopar stuff. But I could count them on one hand. So like everyone else. I still wonder why there aren't any blocks? I believe part of the reason is that attempts at producing aftermarket Mopar stuff has been of questionable quality. I think this has made prospective buyers to have a wait and see attitude. Fortunately for me I have a solid Mega-Block.
Doug

No body is saying that mopar guys cheap. What I am saying is that there are used aftermarket blocks out there if you want to buy them. You can only buy really good heads BBM from Koffel or Indy and still buy blocks Indy and KB. What dictates competition and pricing is supply and demand. If you take the emotion out of it and you could cast blocks and heads what would be the best business decision on what brand the average business man would cast knowing that the casting process is the same? I think the pontiac block tooling is out there from when Pontiac heads where the way to go many years ago before they came out with all BBC aftermarket heads.

Blocks drive all other engine parts sales
No Blocks well then who needs the big heads, cranks etc

I wonder if anyone has tried to buy the core boxs from mopar now that they have no plans on making any more racers are still looking for them thats for sure

As in all of marketing, it’s a chain of events. The Mopar contingent simply doesn’t have the benefit of someone/company that has the fortitude to take the perceived gamble on ROI. It truly is a “build it and they will come” concept. There are so many good points above about the volume of vehicles that could use these parts if manufactured and marketed correctly (product support, quality and inventory and pricing).

I have read all of the conflicting views on what needs built and how it should be configured, the investor should simply keep focused on direct replacement dimensional designs with the blocks. If maximum effort builds are your intent then this thread is not the subject of that conversation, but if stock replacement to ~1500 hp is the objective, then this is the focus that needs elevated to someone with the resources to address that market.

The Mega block was difficult to find and purchase even back when they were being manufactured due to demand and the inability to manufacture them with the proper quality controls. I purchased two back in the day, one was a bad casting and the other I still use today. That type of fall out was not good product yield for Mopar and between the financial loss and reputation scaring, it seems like no one is willing to risk it again.

With todays manufacturing technology, the risk is even less than before and the market demand is even higher…..so why isn’t someone with already available resources looking at this????......cough…cough…..Dart, World? Anyone? Mopar needs to get someone on board to keep the legacy alive, forget the financial greed, “build it and they will come” philosophy is the long term payback that would make this investment profitable down the road as it will drive need for all of the other associated products.

Look at cylinder heads for example; who the heck cares about another bolt on oem cylinder head. The difference between whats currently available and what is being introduced into the market is absolutely nuts. Those chasing ET numbers are not even going to consider that head as an option and those on the street/strip scene wont “feel” enough power difference to justify the expense of switching from their already existing aftermarket street/strip heads. So that alone brings me back to the marketing subject…..WTH is going on out there?????

A decent block and some predator type cylinder heads of acceptable quality, fairly priced and with the necessary product support will rock the Mopar performance world – agree?

I guess I just need to win the Powerball and do this myself - lol

Whatever happened to this endeavor...Anybody else heard about/know about this company or even seen a block from them ??

http://www.hpperformancellc.com/

I hear what your saying but I believe the Mopar world would still be the underdog due to Bore spacing and valve train stabilization. I due believe a aftermarket block would satisfy most of the Mopar community. I'm just not sure about the return on the investment based on Start up cost, R&D and options that would need to be offered. I also don't know of anybody that would invest hundreds of K $$$ on manufacturing because it not enjoyable. I know people spend money on racing but they get enjoyment out of it.

Most of us don't want or need to set the world on fire but we do want to be competitive and have reliable parts. Me personally have been in this game for 40 years and hopefully have a few more good years left in me. After that hopefully I still have good enough health to hand over the driving duties and still attend the races.

It's like building a new house you want a good foundation to start with no sense in building a 700 plus hp motor on a block that could split apart at any time I'm not a BBM guy been looking for a good R block they are out there but you have to look hard and ask many people who might have one and Indy does have them for sale but when there gone that's it would have been nice if Ritters block would have worked out im sure he could sell them with no problem

Hate to say it but Chevy and Ford race blocks are being cast oversea maybe a mopar block is in the works just thinking

OK
Mayby a little sunshine is what you guys need. Mopar is going to have blocks soon. The hemis will be first, and the prototypes have been cast and machined. Gary Stanton (Mopars crate hemi program) and Ray Barton both got some of the first ones for testing and evaluation. They are being cast at a Foundry in Wisconsin and machined at Arrow racing. This info has come straight from the top of Mopar Performance and Ray himself. I do not know when that evaluation process will be complete but it is underway.
For those of us who have watched the block saga from the start, this is standard fare. As the corporate structure and personal change the programs change. Lawyers, accountants, bankers, and politicians are calling the shots. Projects of this size MUST make money, first and foremost. Resources and Talent must be expended carefully if one is to keep their job. Fiat takeover, Daimler, the govt, the bankruptcys have all conspired to keep the culture at mopar in constant chaos.
As someone who sells parts for and builds engines for all types of racing Mopar based engines, I hear all the time that mopars cannot compete. I have tried most of my adult life to disprove that statement. Sometimes when you have to bring a knife to a gunfight, you have to work hard and find things to help you out. So how fast is fast? With the exception of Pro mod and some of the real fast door cars, mopars work just fine. Above that it is all custom aftermarket anyway so who gives a rats patootie what name is on the valve cover.
Todd

This would be some GREAT news to the Mopar community.

And is there anything in line for the SB group

And you waited 130 posts to tell us this? Shame on you

Hey--he knows cheap entertainment when he sees it

You're right, when ever I'm down or feeling stupid I come on here, read a few questions and answers and I'm back in the groove.

EXACTLY! And..if you say Chevy a time or two it makes that happen much faster!

Thanks Todd for going to the top of the mountain and getting the real info for us
I will say it again--

BLOCKS drive all other engine parts sales--

Best Pro Mod combos are blown Hemi...I've heard of two Chevy powered set-ups talking changing combo to blown Hemi because they are tired of being on the wrong side of the bump. There are more Hemi's in Pro Mod than Chevys at least at the big races, not the local stuff. Looks like some more in the future.. Go to draglist.com Look at quickest pro mods of all time, #1-5 of the cars are all Hemi power even though they are Chevy/Ford bodied. Please tell me you guys haven't fallen for that one. Have we forgotten that the fastest Chevy, Ford or whatever...is Hemi powered....on a Mopar site to boot. And I'm not talking fuel cars.

And the fastest cars at drag week, cars faster than pro mods, all have Chevy based engines.

Ah yes.........there it is, the FINAL argument of the die hard Mopar fan. What about Top Fuel, what about funny car, what about this or that. NEWS FLASH, not every person out there wants to, nor can run a blown alky burning HEMI to try and compete with the other brands.

Seems the aftermarket must agree with you though. After all, Mopar guys have the HEMI...........they must not need anything else

How many people on this board seriously thinks that Promods/TF/TA runs blocks from mopar or even something that is even remotly usable for most racers on here?

How many decades has it been since an actual Chrysler Hemi block was used for TF & FC?

Oh no, not this argument again! Of course it has been awhile... gentlemen Come out fighting and may the best win!

News flash "Chevy and Ford race blocks are cast in the USA"!!!!!!

I have never understood why Indy has not made iron blocks they have the mold for the aluminum blocks.

The HEMI is the baddest b!tch on the planet.
Why not embrace it.

Was not talking about dart or world was talking the copy cat blocks

Not everyone wants a hemi or even a big block..at one
time a buddy had a alum LA 318 block that Chrysler had
built.. it was the ONLY one built...I tried to get him
to sell it to me... he wanted it.. and to this day I
dont think he has used it(that I know of) but I havent
seen him since I retired...it was a stock looking block..
I didnt ask how he got it or where it came from but I knew
Chrysler made it

Wow I come home from the race track actually racing my car and see all these new posts. The keyboards must really be smoking. Lol

Why is this solution never even mentioned in these block bashing threads?

http://www.jegs.com/i/Mopar+Performance/312/P5153378/10002/-1

Because I dont want a 9" deck...I had one of those in
the taller block but sold it years ago... if you dont
have the timing set up and the front cover you will putting
out big money...IF YOU CAN FIND ONE...and I have a set of w-9s
for one

Price is relative if nothing else exists, if I amreading this thread correctly, and Jeg's lists two other higher deck heights, all in stock, and there is the issue of requiring motor plate and dry sump. Still seems it it would at least be ,mentioned as a last resort, if say alum was crucial.

Easy to see the problem. ALL the parts needed are one off parts not on every ones shelf, reason the blocks are still available. Talk about something hard to sell even at $3100 with no R&D for the common man.

Yeah, you can get an A8 block in several deck hts. It's a lightweight block designed for sprint car racing. It is a real race block. Meaning, you need to use real race parts with it. Not something most guys are willing to do. Same with the R5. Great block, can buy one today, but you need to use real race parts on it.
Two examples of small blocks, cast with mopar logos (so important) available now.
Indy and KB make big blocks in both deck hts. Waiting has always been an issue with KB. I'm suprized someone hasn't ordered 50 of them with minimal finish machining and stocked them as "for sale now" at a mark up for those that cant wait. I know the kb stuff always has rave reviews. The Indy stuff is hard to figure out. They have the blocks but wont sell them? Can't you buy them from someone in their dealer network? Just seems very strange to me.

Monte, other than the N2O and NA people, which are competitive due to rules(rules lobbying is the only reason it's not all screws and turbos, let's be honest), people are fine running hemis. Heck, lots of bottom end stuff is hemi spec to use the well researched and available bearings. As you(and most other intelligent people) have said before, race stuff is race stuff, it's not GM/Ford/Mopar.



Probably just a few less than the last time anyone used a stock GM/Ford block for anything other than the tow rig

The nostalgia fuel guys have pretty much blown up all the old hemis and besides they have billet stuff now...for nostalgia.



Wait.....Whut? You talking about the "no prep" suicide show? S/F.....Ken M

The sad fact is that "mopar guys are cheap" is largely true. Which is fine, it's a free country, just don't expect anyone to try and run a business trying to sell to skin flint misers. Businesses, especially in times of hardship, target the rich, the people who have money. S/F.....Ken M

Wait.....Whut? You talking about the "no prep" suicide show? S/F.....Ken M [/quote]

Drag Week is with a prepped track

Gen III blocks is what needs to be embraced IMO. They can make way more power than even the Mopar/Arrow blocks can handle. I'd put one up against a W9 anyday, especially on pump gas and hydraulic lifters.

Uh oh, now you're picking a fight!
I agree the Gen III needs to be embraced, BUT a good aftermarket big block is a must as well. I've got a 440 in my '67 Coronet and it'll be there awhile, but if I ever get to spend serious money on a mill it will be a forced induction Gen III with a 518 trans

I think that new blocks are kinda like the Diesel Wrangler, looks neat but probably not going to find much factory support....Tim

Home early.

Mopar just isn't racing anything factory based other than the Viper. With them pulling the plug on basically everything else, unless you're a member of that club you're left out in the cold. KB is still making aluminum RB,B and Hemi blocks are they not? The BB guys are still klinging to the leftovers from the Wayne County days. A guy on another site was going for the gusto with a max effort Gen III Hemi in Pro Mod. Got to the 2000hp ish mark and the block cant take that, sleeves dropping among other things. So guess what he is switching to because he wants to RACE instead of waste money?
Yep, DART M block 632 BBC and nitrous. Sucks to be us...

Yes I was. New best (6.07) on the brakes and a decent light (.023) but I totally blew the big end. Good car, bad driving.

I am not even sure what you are trying to say here. Who is fine running HEMIs? And you said it yourself.......N/A you can't compete. Nitrous, you can't compete. About the only place you can be up front with real Mopar power is in a class where a boosted HEMI is allowed or the rules are severely restricted.

Oh and just for info........the fastest Pro-Mod cars on the planet are turbo cars with 481X power. Which is an Olds wedge head on a HEMI type bottom end

The 481X has always intrigued me, it's a Mopar/BBC mash up. If someone was smart they'd make some "Mopar" heads for it for a "Mopar" race engine

I'm saying true high end race stuff is race stuff. Aside from the fuel and alky classes, which are all boosted hemis, the hemi is right there with the 481x in promod and your outlaw radial classes, the 481x is kinda like a KB/Olds evolution, as I understand it.

For NA you have the P/S stuff, or W8 stuff if you wanna do Comp. Again, all it takes is cubic $ and none of this stuff is factory produced outta Detroit.

All a function of "rules" or else we'd be seeing big inch OHC stuff like the McGee, which got banned by the rules just as it was getting sorted out. With the increasing commonality of CNC production stuff, we may see big inch billet OHC again. The little phord mod motors make power, something with more cubic inches would probably solve a lot of the valve train issues plaguing most all the current stuff, well until they started rpm'ing like F1 motors. S/F.....Ken M

I ordered a Hemi block (P5007627) on Summit last month and they keep moving the delivery date back. That is an old Cummins block number, aka, Mega Block. I thought for sure it would get cancelled by now, but if they are making blocks again, maybe they are waiting to get one in?

I've ordered two other part numbers previously and they were cancelled within a month. Then they have removed the part number from their system.

Anyone have access to the Mopar parts line to check backorders on Hemi blocks?

Not in the 'rah-rah-rah' world...

Proline offers a Hemi now.
Check out there site.

Huh... it's been awhile since i've checked out their sight.
Price doesn't seem bad for that level of performance.

I know summit has no R3 blocks for sale talked to a sales person said he could get one so I had him ck came back 5 mins later said there were no blocks to be had I said thanks for cking

last I checked there was one 9.0 R3 in Warren MI, but it's been a few months. They were pretty sparse back in 12 when I bought my 9.20 deck... and the feeding frenzy hit when it was realized they went "NS1".... no longer in production.

Why not do an Indy aluminum block and have someone whos built alot of em like BEST machine it for ya ?
Btw what would it run for an Indy alum block and machining ? I was close to 5000 for my iron sb which weighs 25llbs more

Proline stuff is absolute art. If I were a big $$$ racer I'd do 481X, to me it has a ton of Mopar in it and looks more Dodge than anything (cross bolted mains, front mount distributor)

New 392 block will be available soon. Maybe they could do a 426?

http://www.enginelabs.com/news/theres-a-new-hemi-in-town-bear-block-motors-392-hemi-block/

The Profline stuff is made by Alan Johnson

It's good to see that there is something on the horizon for the Hemi/BB guys. With any luck the R3's will come back as well, along with a Gen III block as well. Time will tell.

I searched moparts, and looked through this thread, but did not see any reference to the block by Koffel's Place.

"We are happy to unveil the new K-P 440 Mopar block"

http://www.b1heads.com/index.html

their website shows cutaway pics, but not much else.

http://www.b1heads.com/engines/cutaway/page_01.htm

http://b1heads.com/pdf/Koffels_block.pdf

Note the press release date - 2007. It shows a block with "Koleno" cast into the side.

But the Koffels cutaway shows a different valley arrangement with no crossbars. The old Koleno picture below shows them.

Steve Koleno's last post on their Facebook page was nearly a year ago.

Unless somebody actually talks to Koffel, this is just more vaporware.

Of course, those Fiat Chrysler blocks are bound to show up any day.

In the meantime, someone has tooled up a Cleveland Ford block from the ground up, supposed to be produced by Tim Meyer. Neither the designer nor Tim are big business. Pontiac blocks are available, now a new 392 Hemi?

In reality, casting isn't as easy as it seems, and the number of foundries available to do the work is few. The ones that are working are really busy making parts for OEMs. I believe the HPP blocks were going to be cast by Buddy Bar Foundry, and they're swamped with work.

R.

thanks!! I wasn't able to enlarge that pic of the two blocks.
That is an 'old' ad...

well,here we go again.this is not new news.everybody knows the need is there,yet all the suppliers that can produce blocks cannot see their own D**k with their pants around their ankles.its nothing more than bullheaded stupidity.we tried a few email campaigns to raise awareness and show that a product is desperatlly needed and low and behold,the first response was,QUOTE,can you send me the names and links of these sites so we can do some market research and see what the true demand is?we are always here to help if the investment vs. demand formula works out.tooling is not cheap and we have to take that into consideration......exact words from the source.and what happened to the market research? obviously,they went to the nearest bus stop and asked the 3 elderly ladies waiting on the number 9 to downtown what they thought.i honestly believe that the only thing stopping them is the fact that they would expect a massive greedy profit and they are not prepared to have to explain that to the masses when they sell a race gm product for under 2 grand.in all reality,it is what it is so save your antique blocks and start hoarding cores if you want to continue to race a pentastar product.and play the powerball.good luck to all because they are not listening..........

It's NOT that these companies ignore the Mopar market......in fact it shows they know EXACTLY where the majority of the Mopar market lies. And that is warmed over factory style heads. THAT is what sells and all these companies KNOW that, or they would not be getting into that market.

Mopar guys are quick to think it is some sort of conspiracy or something. Simple fact, if there was decent money to be made, somebody would be making it and they aren't

Well guys if i win the powerball i promise to force the issue and make a block reality. So not all hope is lost.

Im assuming the AJE blocks like the 481x dont have cooling passages?

I believe if they made a block, at the same price as a Chevy, they would sell every one they make. They don't sell those blocks for less than manufacturing cost, they just don't make much profit on each hoping to sell a lot of blocks. Mopar blocks should cost the same to cast and machine,give or take a little, sell these the same way. Most of us can cough up $2000 easier the $5000 for one, Hec we buy $2000 "heads" and other cheapy things,

I'm gonna say they are billet, so no.

Plane & simple economics.
Monte, what would you figure/guess the R&D plus setup would be just to start making an improved B/RB block.

Chevy parts probably out sell Mopar parts at least 10 to 1. How long would it take a manufacturer to recoup for the cost of the R&D, setup & manufacturing of new B/RB blocks? If they see little to no return on a product they're not going to make it, this is true with any product.

Some of you are correct. It takes EXACTLY the same amount of money to engineer and produce a Chevy and a Mopar block. That is NOT the problem. The issue is end sales volumes. Chevy blocks will outsell Mopar blocks 100-1. To think they should cost the consumer the same is crazy. Its called return on investment.

bubby, I have no idea on cost to get a block from the ground to production. Probably SEVERAL hundred thousand.......maybe a million in todays money.

Most places have ROI of 3 years,like my employer has.
If they are not sure they can accomplish that, they simply don't make that product line. I don't see the performance automotive industry being any different.

Someone needs to buy Keith Black, or Indy. It would be cheeper.

I thought I read on the Bullet that there is also a cast 481X?

Not sure why everyone keeps bring up the 481X deal. That is NOT a block that takes a Mopar head. It takes a 481X head, which is an Oldsmobile wedge head. Also the block is a 4.840 bore space and takes a Chevy crank. Basically a Chevy block, with skirted sides and provisions for a front drive dist. It LOOKS nothing like a Mopar block.

A TFX block is a HEMI block. A TFX or 481X block can be forged or billet

There is nothing wrong with INDY. They make a good block and they are not hard to get. Some people don't like Russ, rumors get started and the haters pile on. Likely 75% of the people who proclaim "INDY sucks" have probably never even dealt with them. They just read it on the internet so it MUST be true.

I personally have NEVER had a problem with INDY, their parts, nor Russ.......so whats that mean? Not a damn thing, about the same value as what all the haters say. Pretty simple, guys want an alum Mopar block, there is one you can get quick and another takes a year. Guys don't like either of those options, they can do without.

LOL. Every time I think about letting my R1 based shortblock go I run into one of these threads. I then realize I'd never get another one. Glad I bought it when I did; least 4 yrs ago. 48* W-2 heads aren't growing on trees either. Just need the cash to get it all up to Dwayne to get heads ported and run it all.

Chevy sells 10-100 to 1, what if they where the same cost, think that number would get closer? Then the buyer has a choice, and don't think Chevy guys aren't cheap either, they bought Chevy stuff didn't they. It's all marketing anyway, they only want to stock one brand not three, too much money tied up in inventory. You want to pay twice for something they'll order it then gladly sell it to you.

But there are 100 chevy blocks already there to compete with so it is mind blowing really that they keep coming out with more competetion.

Monte : Does Allan Johnson make a block that has coolant passages?

Or Ken needs to get better with deliveries. Other than that what is wrong with a KB block? Speculation, but when I hear about missed schedules that keep slipping I think of a company with inadequate cash flow and pissed off vendors. Aren't the sleeves supposed to be a tight item?

Then I HAVE to ask you, did you ever buy anything from Russ at Indy? Cause if you did, then you would know what everyone says is TRUE!

And I do use their products, usually good parts, but I will no longer buy direct.

Maybe Russ treats people with *ahem* clout or associations with companies *ahem* a little better than the common man.

I know any face to face dealings I have had made me feel like I was completely wasting his time because I couldn't and wouldn't spend $ 30,000.

I asked a well known vendor here if he was treated any different by Indy than us little guys. He chuckled and said simply "Nope!"

Well, I suppose he is at least consistent!

I have done lots of business with INDY and WELL before I worked for Holley. My first dealings was sending in a set of iron heads to be ported by Lazzeri. This was back in the early 90s, maybe late 80s and they were nothing but nice. Bought my first set of 440-1s in probably the early 90s as well. Again, no problems. Matter of fact have NEVER had a problem with Russ or INDY. Bought heads, blocks, they have repaired stuff for me, both blocks and heads, with not a single bad experience. The only BAD thing I could say was they promised to make me a custom block for my TS heads that never got done, but he called and told me they just couldn't do it, like I wanted it, but again was very nice about it........So to all I read being TRUE, I have to say, not in MY experiences with them.

Russ has taken me to eat, been to his house, showed me all his cars, showed me the whole operation and has generally just always been nice to me and again, all before I worked with Holley. We get along fine and always have. He was always at the track when Duke was racing the Dart. Guess we just hit it off or something.

Now, you call him with an attitude, I guarantee you WILL get one back.

O

Why not bring it up? There are no current "Mopar" blocks to use and us Mopar guys get poo pooed pretty hard for being hung up on stock looking heads and purple cams. I brought up the 481X because it's a cool engine, and to me, I see a lot of Mopar in it and was just trying to expand the conversation. If someone made a "Mopar" head for it you might see some hardcore Mopar guys using it. Again I understand it's pretty much a purpose built engine that's a mash up of Chevy and Hemi BUT something like that might be enough to get the Mopar racers going, maybe not, was just a neat package that I've always been intrigued by.
BTW apparently they used to make a cast block, which I'm guessing had water jackets?

I built an Alum Indy motor this year. I went through a dealer and had no issues. I would have bought a KB but I don't like to wait. My next build will be a Hemi.

I find it interesting reading these threads, I always find it quite amusing the arguements stating that if Mopar blocks were priced the same as chevy blocks they'd sell more.
A Dart BBC block sells for around $2387-$3483 depending on what options it has. A World block sells at around $2296-$3092

Of that retail price, how much do you think the manufacturer see? How much profit is made from each block?
From concept to your first finished block, if you haven't dropped at least $250K into your project, I'd be very surprised.
Then you've got to cough up and do your first run of castings (20-50) and machine these, package and distribute. If it's not done in house, these vendors are going to want to be paid. So you're out of pocket another $15-40K before you've even sold your first block. If you're cashed up like Ken Black, this isn't a real issue. If you've taken out a mortgage on your house to pay for this, you're paying interest.

How many BBC blocks would be sold per year?

When World was making the Mopar BB & Hemi Blocks, how many were sold per year?

Lets say 250 Mopar blocks are sold in a year, with a net profit of $500 per block. So $125K per year of return.
A BBC block sells around 12500 units per year, netting a return of $6250000 per year. Now as a business, which are you going to be making and selling?

Granted these figures are arbitrary, but I think it needed to be spelled out, because some people just don't get it.

For the record, I could design an engine block, with some assistance from the foundry design and produce the core boxes. Machine the castings, make the design adjustments etc. Borrow a bunch of money to pay for a run of castings, machine them, store them and attempt to distribute them. I'd be out of pocket for the cost of the castings, the tooling and consumables, fixture materials and probably thousands of hours of my own time.

But how many would I really sell? How many times would I hear "If they were $2K you'd sell a bunch of them" or "Why aren't they available with this?" and so on and so on. It really just wouldn't be worth the aggravation. I'd get more satisfaction doing one or two billet blocks and using them as coffee tables!

To those people who argue about why the Mopar blocks are more expensive? Mortgage your house and go and bank roll it yourself. You'll find out really quickly!

Rant Over! Haha

LOL........yep, always the same old argument. A BBM mopar block SHOULD cost the same as a BBC and if it did they would sell a boatload........uh huh. Guess that is why everyone who has ever made a cast iron BBM block has stopped. Because they sold a boatload and made all the money they needed........LOL!!!

Some don't seem to understand supply and demand. Chevy people out number Mopar guys, probably 1000-1. Aftermarket block sales would be even more lopsided than that. And since business is based on ROI numbers, you have to be delusional to think both products should cost the end user the same amount

We better start buying from, rather than complaining about the people already making our stuff, Indy, kb, etc. Or we'll loose those options also. I have no complaints about my Indy block...Got it from a local dealer and was no problem.

im going to go way out on a limb here and just say there is no reason in the world a decent hp block cannot be made and sold at a comparable price to the bowtie girls.no "conspiracys" no "haters",no line of crap deep enough to choke an nba player.at that level they would sell,period.its really comparable to the price guys spend on a decent set of heads with valvetrain.it all boils down to the fact that nobody is willing to try.if you look at the obsolete block replacements that are out there,donovan,pontiac,348 chevy, etc, and so on,it appears not to make any sense whatsoever to the average racer.people are clamoring for blocks,lots of people.maybe if we all give up and say the hell with it, somebody will then jump in and see no demand and build them.next week the new trick,siamese bore,double crossbolted,alloy stanley steamer block will be in full production and on the market for 1800 dollars delivered.....

Well, he usually hangs up on me before I get to ask him out to dinner, so you must rate pretty well.....And I have never given him attitude, its usually just stunned silence on my end of the phone followed by click.

And I did build an all alum Hemi this year with all their parts. But being hung up on when all you want are parts and not have them build the engine is pretty lame...

Russ and I had pizza and a few beers last week. He even bought a round for the house. Whoops wrong Russ.

I probably have over 50k invested in my Predator parts. Russ wasn't willing to even help with the type of head gaskets I needed and I asked an Indy dealer call his sorry a$$. So not sure why you rate the way you do Monte and I have no problem that you do. But don't get me started on what a stand up guy he is, he cost me thousands being a Richard on my Hemi predator deal. I don't trust him or his products at this point. I haven't bought as many parts as you have I'm sure, but everything I remember buying needed to be fixed after the sale, and they have never been any help. The dealers, that's another story. Too bad he has several of them mad too. If I thought they would stand behind their stuff, I would have already bought a block from them, but they have given me no reason to think so. And I have no problem with someone making a buck even if it costs a bit more, but it needs to be worth it.

LMAO...


Makes you wonder why one GM 'yay' is pertinent regarding countless Mopar 'nays'...

Sounds like the same seemingly annoyed and arrogant chap i dealt with when i bought a complete set of T&D rockers for the 440-1's at the Indy trade show. He acted as though he didn't want to be bothered by some simpleton who spent a measly $1100. Didn't even say thanks.
Next time i need any Indy related stuff i'll order online from a dealer and gladly pay the shipping and any taxes that may apply. That may never happen...i'm considering going to B-1's

Low volume blocks cost more and that's just the way it is and always will be. Dart Big M, iron BBC blocks cost $2200......The All Pontiac iron block is a $1000 more than the Dart.......why would you think that is?

Sounds like Russ developed an attitude after a certain level of success was attained. That shouldn't surprise anybody in the least. He wouldnt be alone at all in that regard.

Also sounds like if you were an acquaintance before then, he still treats you the same. That part is a little surprising in itself so there must be something decent about him.

Guys expecting $2200 blocks is not realistic, not from a company wanting (needing) to make money. A $1000 ish premium is realistic. A $2200 block from a Mopar philanthropist (me if I won a massive lottery) is realistic but not probable

One of the biggest PR problems Indy has was Josh King, who I hear is gone now. The guy would charge you for work they were supposed to do and the parts would show up without the work being done. No doubt he had to keep his boss happy, and screw the customer. I haven't had any dealings with the since and really couldn't give two Fs about them,

Don't like Indy? There are plenty of dealers/vendors here on this board who can get you Indy stuff and be great to deal with.

I have a KB block and love it. VERY nice piece and was worth the money and the wait if you ask me. The wait sucks, but it is what it is. At least you get a real nice block out of it.

I look at it this way. If I wanted a Keith Black engine for next year my order would be in for one right now. You then will get a call from Ken or an employee to go over your build. At that time you send in a partial payment. While waiting you save up the rest of the money to pay it off. Come Spring you receive a FINISHED block and not one needing to go to a machine shop to have finished. Just my thoughts and it worked for me when I stepped up to the best big block Mopar engine block produced.

JUST an FYI, I ordered a hemi block on last november 10th. At this time KB still does not have my casting. I knew going it was going to be a wait and I'm so behind on everything else it's not a big deal for me to wait longer but if you're wanting to order one you better be planning on longer than the 12 months everyone talks about.

That being said I'm going to be forced to order an Indy block from someone in the next couple weeks. I've been starting and stopping on a stroker wedge and just don't have a lot of confidence in the block I'm using and I can't wait 14 months for that block.

All I can say is have you stayed in contact with Ken? I myself am a person that keeps in personal contact with someone I'm dealing with. Phone contact only or if possible face to face. I didn't pester the guy but he's a very reachable guy to talk to

I'm surprised this thread started up again. There is no reason anyone should have to front these people money to build a block someone has to wait 16 weeks for, much less over a year. That it's worth the wait mentality is not mine. That's why I haven't ordered a block from them. I'm not going to take a chance with Indy either, and I have friends that had good luck with them, and those that didn't. The next time I need a block, if nothing else is available, it's on the the competitor where I can get one shipped tomorrow.

Yes I've contacted him. Nice guy no doubt. I'm not complaining either. It is what it is and fortunately I'm not in hurry. I'm just letting people know. I've seen 6-12 months tossed around here a lot and in my case it's over 12 months and I don't have a casting. Maybe others are getting pushed in front of me.

I don't think others are getting pushed in front of you. I've been waiting since july. I made my second payment in March.
And i am complaining. a guy shouldn't have to front someone 6 grand in hopes of someday getting a block.

It is just a matter of where you fell in line. Waiting for over a year you were likely one of the first on the list. A guy jumping in now may only wait a few months now.

that doens'nt explain why takes 8 ++?? months to do the machining work? He's had my casting since march.

Well MAYBE that's not 100% fact. Have been going through this drama for a few years. You will hear stories of guys waiting over a year and some only a few months. Any other rational explanation why ????

Perhaps it takes so long because he is the only game in town? A whole lot of demand and one place doing it correctly. You can't just go out and go from doing one block a day to 1000 and he may not want the headache of stepping up production. Not like hard working, knowledgeable, trustworthy, available guys are knocking at the door looking for jobs and trying to make do with the bad ones will cost you more than you make off them commonly as well as mess up your reputation.

Yep. You can double the size of your company and cut the profits in half. All while creating four times the work for you yourself.

Or maybe, just perhaps, he is just a sh!tty business man.

Been to a great/expensive restaurant, and see a line of customers?

The line can be fine being quality product and fast service, and BTW read my signature.

The problem is that KB can get away with it. That's why it happens. Ken isn't going to use HIS money to front blocks that may or may not sell in a timely fashion, so he is going to WAIT until he has the customers $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. And the customer is losing $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ because he no longer has the USE of HIS money because some other piss poor business man is holding it.

Why Chrysler guys put up with this is beyond my ability to understand. nI can tell you, with out doubt, if I was going racing again, it would be with a 5.0 bore spacing (maybe bigger) aftermarket BB engine (it's not really a chevy). I would never again be bothered by the crap dealings I have personally had with chrysler. Let alone they way chrysler has treated Roy and Allen Johnson, for decades. Why the Johunsons take it I'll never know.

It's just stupid really.

You guys do know that Ken does not cast these blocks don't you? Maybe just maybe his hands are tied too. Not a lot of foundries around these day. I do not and never have owned an Indy block but I am thankful that they are produced. Fact is Ken's quality control has stricter guidelines than Indy does.

What difference does any of this make?

Do you think a chevy guy (or worse yet a ford guy) would pay all that money up front and WAIT?? I don't know Ken Blck. Don't want to or need to. But the issue still is: 1. Availability of aftermarket blocks. 2. Cost of said blocks. 3. Rediculous lead time of same blocks.


I don't know a chevy or ford guy who would put up with what the chrysler guys do. If you are doing anything other than screwing around, I don't know why you would do it with a chrysler. It's sad, but chrysler corporate has [censored] all over the racers for decades. I knew when I wore out my W-% stuff I was done with anything chrysler. Rather than putting a chevy into a car I loved, I sold it, and let the new guy put a chevy in it (which is the fate I saved it from when I bought the care in 1985). Were I to start racing again, it would be with a GM based something. The bodies are so ugly I'd probably have to put it in a ford, but the power would be some GM based platform.

I really could care less what you think about Mopars. Or what you drive or maybe even race. This is a Mopar website and I'm proud to say will always race Mopars. But that's just me.

There was a time when Mopar was the fastest most reliable race engine you could buy. That was a long time ago and they failed to keep up. In the last 20 years their contribution to the competitive race community has been abysmal. Yes they had aftermarket blocks for wedge and Hemi stuff for a while, but it is still based on the 4.800 BS. The real race people started looking at eventually producing heads and blocks for 5" and bigger BS. Those are readily available these days. How do I know that? I typically qualify bottom half, and they qualify top half in T/D. I ask how they are able to do it N/A, and they tell me. I can order a 4.75X4.75 tomorrow from Schmidt or Sunset, and have it for next weekend for 10K less than what I have into the 604 Predator on my engine stand. That is fact. So don't ask me what KB's hardships are, I really don't give a rats a$$. Don't even bring up the Pro Stock stuff, it doesn't really apply to that majority of us.

I think the Arrow is begging for a small block bowtie...lol

Evidently, you are opposed to facts? I gave you FACTS. camastomcat gave you FACTS. I can tell you, for a FACT, that chrysler screw Roy Johnson to the wall. More than once. What I can't tell you is how I know that FACT and why he doesn't tell chrysler to jam it sideways in their craw.

You can do what you want. If I ever decide to rece seriously again (which will likely never happen as I like going to the track about as much as I like a root canal) I'm not going to waste my money/effort/time/abilities trying to make some antiquated junk go fast. If this is insulting, or hurts your feelings I can't help you.


For the record (because evidently, on this site, pittsburgracer vets all of us to see if we are MoPar enough) I have been a chrylser guy since 1979, when I bought my first car. I didn't by one because my dad was doing it, I did my own research and bought what I thought was best. I have never owned a race car that wasn't a MoPar. I don't own anything now that is not a MoPar.


Hope that clears everything up, and proves my bona fides.

Like I said I could care less what you do. My Dad never raced but I've loved the sport for 40 plus years with all my race cars being Mopars. That's kinda why I hang out on a Mopar website. Have fun sitting on the side line bad mouthing mopars

Only on a mopar site can we be called "too cheap" and "wastefull" of our money. Guys call us cheap for whining about $5000 for a useable block and at the same time people are shocked we buy them for that much.

BTW the advantage of the bigger BS block is you can run a bigger valve with more room from the bore, a hemi solves this problem.

Seems someone would come up with a race style Hemi head, ditch the "real hemi" chamber for a shallower one like the genIII with a couple quench pads so you don't need 500 pound pistons to get compression. Then you can beat em with a 4.8 BS while they are all trying to run a "wedge" that ain't a real wedge either. Look at the apache head, giant valve with big flow that still fits on a 3.91 bore for inspiration, no massive dome required. Scale it up and make it fit the 605" and let it eat. Too many mopar guys in the top classes trying to prove they can do it with a wedge. Does any one realize there would be NO comparisons of the Hemi and wedge if the hemi had 440" under it from the factory? That is the only real reason there was ever a comparison, the extra cubes are what gave it more TQ not the stupid wedge heads or magic 6 pack.

I always do.

The problem is you are hypersensitive. You must be allergic to FACTS.

camastomcat has been fairly forthcoming on his predator builds. He has given actual FACTS and approximate costs. Clearly, CTC would have been time/money/frustration ahead if he would have used a 5.0 BS based engine to start with. CTC is RACING in an enviroment where he has to QUALIFY. I think he would admit (and I think he has done so here on moparts) he would have been better off doing something other than a chrysler based engine. Again, FACT. The FACT that this thread even exists is PROOF of the FACT that it is almost impossible to compete at any top level in drag racing using a chrysler based engine. FACT. Guess I should have included the NA part because some slug will come along and point out the hair dryers and blower guys compete. I'm talking NA here.

Like I said, I will never understand the Johnson family loyalty to the chrysler brand. I know in 1999 he couldn't give me a reason for it, after several hard ball screwings by Ma MoPAr. Maybe today, he feels differently. If I get the chance to talk to him again (since I don't go to the races much anymore I won't see him at the track) maybe I'll ask him.

So, I don't have any loyalty to the current MoPar regime. Never really cared for the Iacocca days either. And the fatherland owners didn't impress me either. Oh, that Walter P. was still around! But I wax nostalgic. We must move ahead.

We will still be waiting on outdated blocks, with a puny supply, at an outrageous cost. You can ask Yogi Berra for an anecdote that applies here.

Have fun at the races.

And don't take yourself so seriously. No one else does.

Well I didn't bring this thread back up to create a pissing match or to complain. Just to let people know what the current wait time is. For me it's no big deal. I moved last year and knew I'd be down for two years because of it so I started ordering parts so I was ready to go when the time came. I've been a Mopar guy forever and I've never built a hemi so my reward to myself for all the work involved in moving my family to a better place was a Hemi waiting for me at the end.

Mopars are interesting right now. On one hand it's a heck of a lot easier and cheaper to make power right now than it was 20 years ago. I'm talking about 9-10 second cars. I put a set of performers on a worn out 440 short block with a mechanical cam and went 10's first time out. No more screwing with crack prone 906's. On the other hand to go really fast Mopar has been left behind.

For me it's harder to keep racing all mopar because the bodies have gotten so expensive. Everyone want a small fortune for a pile of rust Dart or Coronet. It's forced me to use a Buick body with a Mopar engine because I can buy a 68-72 Skylark/GS for 1/4 of the cost of a Mopar body and all the suspension parts are day away at Summit since it's the same chassis as a Chevelle.

Shouldn't be a pissing match. But FACTS are FACTS. And your FACTS are you are running a Chrysler in a Buick? Dayum dude, the Buick purist will burn you at the stake for that. But your body problem isn't much different from the block/hard parts issue. Except they will never fully reproduce complete cars like I like again.

FWIW I did a 383 (chevy) for a guy with a Dart. I begged him not to put 383 ANYWHERE on the car. I also told him it was probably not the best idea to go to a MoPar only drag race. He thought I was nuts.
After a couple of nights at the track, he took the "383" off the side and scoop of the car. He nearly had fist fights with the Vhrysler guys becuase they wanted to see a 383 Chrysler in there.

I don't think he ever went to a MoPar drags with it. The infantile MoPar fanboys pretty much broke him of that.

It's sad really.

Eric, really it's called Race and Engine tech section. I know it's a Mopar site, but we are talking racing here, and no race blocks. I see the parallel. Remember, we are all Mopar people if we're talking show cars, street/strip cars, etc. But we are talking about Race Cars and the lack of Race Blocks.

OOps sorry Eric, This wasn't directed at you but Pittsburg racer, none of it is meant as disrespectful. Just pointing out the obvious.

Now you did it. LOL. If and only if and it will NEVER happen because I don't like them BUT if I had a dragster it would positively have a big block chevy in it.

Same reason i'm selling my mega block 572.. To do the fast stuff i just need more and it's just not readily available in the mopar line.

I understand, they're not for everybody. Really, the only reason I put a Mopar it to begin with was because I had one and Mad Scientist and our friend Wayne Harry talked me into it. They also did most of the work. I'm not sure I ca afford to go back to a door car.

Just picked up another block tonight so I didn't have to go with a patched up stock block on my 512 indy headed build

B

I've asked this a couple of times and gotten no real response (GenIII style chamber in a Gen II). Pistons would be a non issue, plenty of flat tops in Mopar BB sizes.

Just to give a fact....my buddy paid upfront and waited 1.5 years for his aluminum 10.7 deck Chevy block....
It's not just KB or because its a MOPAR. The problem is once you order something like that you'll want this option and that option and you'll be waiting too. Not to many blocks in stock with all the right stuff your looking for so you go on the waiting list.

Because of all that, I'm done building Mopars. I picked up the phone, and bought a brand new all aluminum Chevy smallblock for 6 grand for my '57 Chevy project. Received it 4 days later. Peace, out!

Just to give a fact....my buddy paid upfront and waited 1.5 years for his aluminum 10.7 deck Chevy block....
It's not just KB or because its a MOPAR. The problem is once you order something like that you'll want this option and that option and you'll be waiting too. Not to many blocks in stock with all the right stuff your looking for so you go on the waiting list.


Uh just curious, 1. If it's just a standard 10.720 deck hieght RB, with a raised cam option or not, it's nothing special. Push rod oiling, nothing special, clearance for long stroke, nothing special. It shouldn't take over 3 months to complete especially if they are asking you for 1/2 or all of the money. People who have ordered them here, know. People who have tried to order them, know. People who are waiting right now, know. Anyone ordering a GM style block like this, know.

nice grab!. What brand block is it?? And the specs??

. .030 over mega block advertised on moparts by one of our members. He also sold a 4.500 World block and is awaiting payment. I sat on the Fence for awhile and started figuring out what I would have in doing a stock block strong enough to run low 9's or high 8's and desided to go this route. My 572 keith Black is going in my small tire heads up car and the 512 is going in this car I traded for my Daytona to another moparts member

I was going to buy the world block but waited too long. Now I'm just plain depressed. Good buy on the mega. Not sure what I'm gonna do after the broken crank disaster I have. Hate to build another stock block.

I saw on here the other day where it looks like Roseville mopar has some hemi blocks again if that's what your looking at.
Here is the thread: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...tml#Post1937444
Matt

Not looking for a hemi but thanks Matt. This is a good thread but what it's made me realize is at this point if you want to build a big block over 800hp your in trouble. That's where I am now. Unless you want / can go to aluminum ($$$).

We have bought a lot of Indy blocks and have no problems using them for our engine builds. We check the line hone, deck, bore, hone, lifter bush just like any block and have only returned two that were replaced with no problem in 10 years. There are no perfect blocks and ready to assemble out of the box that we have ever seen. They are not marginal as stated by camastomcat in our opinion and we have made good power with them. If you really want to build a engine there is no reason not to use one. The weight of the iron block makes it not worth using in a fast drag car (Top Sportsman, Top Dragster ) We also have seen the older mega blocks fail in short time with good power and have never had a cylinder split in a Indy Block.

add in external oil pump, .904 keyed lifters, 60mm raised cam water block and so on,and they don't have any castings in that configuration. You have to wait on a casting date, they all take long is my only point. Add to that their professional customers. Timing could be everything. Again my only point is I have seen long lead times with brand x stuff too.

Pete,
I know you guys hand select Indy blocks to your spec's because that's what you told me. And then you make your own mods that feel necessary, and sell them ready to go. If I were going to order an Indy block, I would do just that, order one from you guys. However, I know of 2 of them, I know that's not a lot, but 2 of them that had a crack in the oil galley into the water jacket. Is that something you check for to?

That's an easy check, I did mine with scrap aluminum, Schrader valve, and air pressure guage. Did waist a new felpro head gaskit doing it but it's easy to check.

Agree, a scaled up genIII hemi style head for BB would be amazing.




Actually the "stupid wedge heads" had something to do with the comparison, at least in stock bodied muscle cars on the street (which is the only place this comparison existed - racers knew better).

The smaller port volumes of wedge heads made much better low speed torque, which allowed the mild cammed 440's to better cope with the heavy weight/low stall speed/street gear ratios that most muscle cars had. 14 cubic inches certainly helped, but that alone wasn't what made the two competitive.

It was the fact that the stock street hemi was mismatched and out of its element in mild low speed street driving, and the 440 wedge was nearly perfect for it.

We ordered the Indy blocks with the options we want and finish machine them the way we want is what I tell people. I have never seen one with a internal leak, but anything is possible with a casting. I am pretty sure Indy pressure tests there blocks. I have never needed to do that so far.

[quote=PETE@BESTMACHINE]We have bought a lot of Indy blocks and have no problems using them for our engine builds. We check the line hone, deck, bore, hone, lifter bush just like any block and have only returned two that were replaced with no problem in 10 years. There are no perfect blocks and ready to assemble out of the box that we have ever seen. They are not marginal as stated by camastomcat in our opinion and we have made good power with them. If you really want to build a engine there is no reason not to use one. The weight of the iron block makes it not worth using in a fast drag car (Top Sportsman, Top Dragster ) We also have seen the older mega blocks fail in short time with good power and have never had a cylinder split in a Indy Block. [/quote
Pete, what are your thoughts of power output on a good sonic-ed Mega-block vs an Indy at 4.500" bore. A few people have swapped out their Iron block an haven't gone any quicker despite the weight savings? I'd love to lose the weight.
Doug

pete - can you ballpark an "average" price to correct any machining issues and get a iron indy block ready to assemble ?

I am trying to decide between Indy and a MP Block.

I want a pic of that car lined up next to my Demon and launching. Very nice trade IMO.

Doug, I do not think you are going to loose any power with the Indy block over a old mega block. We had a chance to do that when a mega block split a cylinder on the dyno. We replaced the block with a Indy one and used our custom ring pack and it made a little more power. That was the only change and we had just gone though it and sonic tested it also.

SSAAHemiFan, You have a Indy iron block? Best to call the shop and go over that, 248-987-6038. Thanks

Have some good news, the Iron Mopar Wedge blocks will be available real soon, they have machined some and are really trying to make sure they are the best that has ever been offered by Mopar. The shop that is machining them is real close to us and two guys from there came over to check some concerns we had about a new Hemi block we have from them. They invited us to come over and check out there shop, very nice people. The lead machinist was one of them and was very cool, talked about the ProStock blocks and he was checking out mine also.

Pete,that's great news keep us posted on the release date.

I noticed in another thread that the G2 hemi blocks are already available with a P#.

Is there any new info on the wedges? Any info about P#'s to watch out for? Options? Etc...

Any new news on the MP blocks availability?

Part numbers?