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Bearings and fingerprints

Posted By: Moparnut426

Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 01:18 AM

So I have heard from many OLD SCHOOL guys including my dad who have told me that finger prints on bearings will cause pre mature failure.

Have any of you guys ever accually had this happen, or have seen it in person.

Kasey
Posted By: KatFysh

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 01:41 AM

I've heard the same. Isn't it something about the acid on your skin {like from sweating}that can eat into the bearing coating??
Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 01:50 AM

Thats what dad said, My acidy finger tips....
Posted By: dthemi

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 01:53 AM

With respect for your dad, and the old school guys who think that,,,come on, think about where that bearing is going, and what's going to happen to it immersed in oil and combustion by products at 200 degrees while simultaneously being hammered by combustion shocks thousands of times per minutes for years at a time.

Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 01:59 AM

I agree, I was just curious what you guys thought, I thought about the hammering, and the oils, and fuel, and heat also.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 02:03 AM

There are acids that build up in the oil... but I
always wiped my prints off of the bearing surface,
habit, but... I'm old
Posted By: quickd100

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 02:09 AM

I just wash them, oil'em and install them.(After checking clearances.)
About a thousand years ago when I was an Apprentice Millwright, our bearings and drives instructor, (he owned a bearing house and was as good a bearing man as I've ever met) told us a little story. It seems one of the bearing manufacturers of anti-friction ball bearings, (SKS, Bower, Timkin) once in a while would get a complaint about rusty fingerprints on their new unused bearings. Their engineers were pulling their hair out trying to figure out why it only happened sporaticly. Finally after a long exhaustive study they figured it out.
They hired women to wrap and package the bearings. Once a month as each women went into their menstrual cycle their sweat became more acidic which stained and etched the bearings. To solve the problem they begain requiring everyone on the packaging line to wear gloves. Dave
Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 02:46 AM

VERY interesting... Thats crazy, thanks for the info. Its amazing what a guy learns on moparts.
Posted By: KatFysh

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 03:07 AM

Had to go the monthly thing though huh?? Raff, yer not as old as the guys we're referring to..
Posted By: moparpollack

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 03:26 AM

I know in jet engines finger prints are a problem on the ball bearings. At over 10,000 rpms the prints contain salt and acids that caused galling and ruined the bearings and the race. There was a finger print remover that they used. So myth proven no BS.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 06:04 AM

I wipe all bearings inserts off with laquer thinner(front and back) and then use a drop of oil on the bearings, then I do use my ungloved finger tips to spread the oil onto the bearing suface and on the cranksaft bearing suface area before installing the rods and mains onto the crankshaft. You cannot be to careful when it comes to assembling a motor, it is like brain surgery, it is impossible keep it to clean
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 01:30 PM

We have brand new bearing that have been contaminated by fingerprints and have deterioated the bearing so baddly that they are unusable.We have them at the shop to show people,maybe Allen Ross(shop photo spy) will take some pictures and post.We have also seen new blocks that were cleaned and handled in the bores that had rusted the walls bad enough that honing would not clean them up. go figure.
Posted By: RonP

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 01:35 PM

I was always told the same thing and I made sure I didn't touch them with my bare hands after I cleaned them for assembly on my current Engine. I was at BG's place and saw that bearing the other day. You could see the print plain as day and the bearing had damage.
Posted By: RyanJ

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 01:58 PM

Any layered clevite style bearing taken out of package & left out in air without oil or something protective on it can deteriorate. I've had a bunch sit out just maybe for a few weeks out of package in summer when humidity is in the 50's or higher in the shop & bearings will be ruined. That's why I never take them out of protective wrapping until I'm ready to use them, & I have mock up bearings that I keep lubed that sit around exposed.

So it wou;d'nt surprise me if the acid from your prints if left on a bearing that did'nt go into a motor could do some damage over time especially in a humid environment, the acid can actually draw in moisture to the bearing & start it to rust etc. Same deal on my car right now it has been in bare steel for like 6+ months... it does not rust anywhere except if you put your hands on it somewhere & leave fingerprints or a palm print etc after a while they will start to show up..... so my car has little rusty fingerprints & palm prints on it in certain areas. Anywhere I never touched with bare hands since stripping it to steel, it is still as clean as day I stripped it..... humidity etc never affected it.

Most people who are touching bearings are going to be putting them in the engine within at least a few hours, & tehy're gonna be doused in some type of lube which will wash away the very minute acid from the skin....So I do not worry about touching the shell of the bearing when I'm handling them (not that you really need to be handling the shell itself, usually I'm touching the edges only when holding a bearing or installing) But I do believe as I said if you leave them sit out for long time after touching them they can get ruined without some type of lube on them.

I don't think this would much apply to a King or Federal bored aluminum bearing, just Clevite type layered bearings.
Posted By: CJK440

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 02:11 PM

Quote:

They hired women to wrap and package the bearings. Once a month as each women went into their menstrual cycle their sweat became more acidic which stained and etched the bearings.





Hmmm, oozing acid out of their skin once a month?? That sounds about right.....
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 02:13 PM

Quote:

Any layered clevite style bearing taken out of package & left out in air without oil or something protective on it can deteriorate. I've had a bunch sit out just maybe for a few weeks out of package in summer when humidity is in the 50's or higher in the shop & bearings will be ruined. That's why I never take them out of protective wrapping until I'm ready to use them, & I have mock up bearings that I keep lubed that sit around exposed.

So it wou;d'nt surprise me if the acid from your prints if left on a bearing that did'nt go into a motor could do some damage over time especially in a humid environment, the acid can actually draw in moisture to the bearing & start it to rust etc. Same deal on my car right now it has been in bare steel for like 6+ months... it does not rust anywhere except if you put your hands on it somewhere & leave fingerprints or a palm print etc after a while they will start to show up..... so my car has little rusty fingerprints & palm prints on it in certain areas. Anywhere I never touched with bare hands since stripping it to steel, it is still as clean as day I stripped it..... humidity etc never affected it.

Most people who are touching bearings are going to be putting them in the engine within at least a few hours, & tehy're gonna be doused in some type of lube which will wash away the very minute acid from the skin....So I do not worry about touching the shell of the bearing when I'm handling them (not that you really need to be handling the shell itself, usually I'm touching the edges only when holding a bearing or installing) But I do believe as I said if you leave them sit out for long time after touching them they can get ruined without some type of lube on them.

I don't think this would much apply to a King or Federal bored aluminum bearing, just Clevite type layered bearings.


But the ones we are talking about came out of the box brand new.And let me caution people that use lacquer thinner on layered bearing. The layers have their own lubercating qualities and pliability qualities,such as found in babbit,aluminum,brass and copper and other non ferris materials.The lacquer thinner penatrates and dries and can cause premature failures.
Posted By: 446acuda

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 04:01 PM

I did jet engine ball bearing inspection for Uncle Sam years ago and part of the process was dunking the bearing in "finger print remover" before packaging it up. There must be something to it. I don't remember what chemical the finger print remover actually was and didn't smell like any familiar chemical .
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 04:07 PM

Quote:

I did jet engine ball bearing inspection for Uncle Sam years ago and part of the process was dunking the bearing in "finger print remover" before packaging it up. There must be something to it. I don't remember what chemical the finger print remover actually was and didn't smell like any familiar chemical .


There is,I dunked my fingers a few time and used a sented hand cleaner to get that familar smell off them. That didn't come out the way I intended But it certainly saved my butt a few times
Posted By: RonP

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 04:23 PM

Bob, you are killing me

oh by the way empty your pm's so I can bug ya some more.
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 04:32 PM

Quote:

Bob, you are killing me

oh by the way empty your pm's so I can bug ya some more.


Can't never be too careful,I get the sniff test everytime I come home,by 3 dogs and the wife.Remind me to tell you about the dog humping my leg one night and after I changed cloths he got the jeans out of the hamper and proceeded to molest them infront of Debby,If looks could kill PMs empty,wondered why it was so quite.
Posted By: runya

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 06:14 PM

How about spraying them with WD40 or Liquid wrench (the blue can with teflon) to clean them?
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 06:18 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Bob, you are killing me

oh by the way empty your pm's so I can bug ya some more.


Can't never be too careful,I get the sniff test everytime I come home,by 3 dogs and the wife.Remind me to tell you about the dog humping my leg one night and after I changed cloths he got the jeans out of the hamper and proceeded to molest them infront of Debby,If looks could kill PMs empty,wondered why it was so quite.


Me thanks you and Fred are related Way to deep into other non normal sexual related activitys
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 06:25 PM

WD-40 attracts(gathers) moisture and water bubbles will form on the bearings and also acts as a penetrate as does liquid wrench and others.I would suggest a teflon coating spray or dry spray.Many lubercants allow bacterial growth over long periods of time.As RyanJ stated never unpackage them till your ready to use them.Short term exposure is fine as long as they are in a temperture controlled enviroment.
Posted By: runya

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 06:31 PM

Sounds good ...thanks.
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/21/09 06:38 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Bob, you are killing me

oh by the way empty your pm's so I can bug ya some more.


Can't never be too careful,I get the sniff test everytime I come home,by 3 dogs and the wife.Remind me to tell you about the dog humping my leg one night and after I changed cloths he got the jeans out of the hamper and proceeded to molest them infront of Debby,If looks could kill PMs empty,wondered why it was so quite.


Me thanks you and Fred are related Way to deep into other non normal sexual related activitys


Cab,It's the "normal sex" that gets me in trouble,the "non normal" she don't care about or wont belive
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/22/09 03:32 AM

some time ago i sent out 3 sets of coated bearings -1/+1 and std size to a customer. he figured out which ones he needed and sent the others back. not thinking much about it at the time i put them on the shelf and there they sat for a couple of months. little did i think to look at them and make sure they were clean and not abused.
fast forward to an occasion where i needed a -1 set of bearings. the fingerprints destroyed not only the Calico coating, but the lead/indium layer just crumbled apart too.
they weren't even good enough for mock up bearings and went in the trash pronto. bearings could sit in oil forever, but fingerprints left on them will take their toll for sure.
Posted By: dthemi

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/22/09 04:01 AM

Well,, I/we/they Engine systems touch every bearing that goes in every motor ever done and will continue to do so. I've found things wrong with bearings by feeling them that being "sterile" with them I'd have never found. Agreed you can't put something on a bearing and sit in a window sill to bake. Finger oil, lemon drops, alligator tears, chewing tobacco spit, BBQ sauce and so on. But outside of gold and titanium that goes for all metal. I think the spirit of the question was whether bearings should be handled or not during assembly and the answer is, yes you should. Hole in the sheet treatment of an engine isn't healthy.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/22/09 04:10 AM

i'm not totally sure of what the intent of the original post was. i just wanted to share my experience.
as far as touching bearings goes, i touch every one of them i install in an engine as i put assembly lube on them. that's not quite the same as leaving fingerprints on them though, especially if it's for an undetermined amount of time.
Posted By: dthemi

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/22/09 04:24 AM

I bet you've found flaws with your fingers, your eyes couldn't find too. I really think the old fingers, and nails are some of the best diagnostic tools we have. Since we're not making medicine and we don't use optical comparators and microscopes to look at everything, the fingers are great! I still after checking a hone finish with a profilometer drag my nails over it, and I'm as accurate as the meter
Posted By: SealockRacing

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/22/09 05:29 AM

havent built a big block, or a small block, but 2 strokes, i was a pro at it.

did a little research from the old man and pretty much figured it out myself, if i locked one up and there was nothing visible in the cylinder, i could feel the problem, and know it was no good. you get the point.

i think this stuff is in my genes

John
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Bearings and fingerprints - 01/22/09 01:17 PM

No one's intent was to say bearings can't be handled during assembly.We hand massage every bearing we install,clean and file any burrs and etc.We make sure the final assembly be with clean hands and parts.We see results of a lot of contamination on engines that are torn down for rebuild and repair that could have be avoided if clean ,careful and common sence were used in final assembly.We recently had a guy bring in an engine that he sprayed the inside of the block with Rustoleoum paint including the cam bearing.His fix is to use lacquer thinner and scotch brite pads to clean all his bearings encluding mains and rods also.
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