Lost 60 ft.............

I went from a old 950 untuned Holley to a ProSystems 1050 Dominator. Last month I ran a new best 6.21 @ 110.59 with a 1.39 60 ft. I picked up a tenth and 2 mph with the new carb. but my 60 ft. times are a lot slower ,with the old 950 they were 1.33-1.34 almost every pass. Did I slow down on my 60ft. because I went to the bigger carb. Also with the 950 my ET did not change much with the weather, Now it slows down a lot when the temperature goes up. I best at T&T the other night was only a 6.37 @ 108 with a 1.41 60ft.

At the power you are putting down( based on ET/ MPH) the Dominator is probably too big.
I ran his Dominator on a small block that ET'd a little better than you at 400 pounds more weight, and the Dominator didn't run any better than a 1025 race Demon( 4150 style)..... Unfortunately I sold the race Demon.... Should have kept it and sent the Dominator back.
You might be able to get it to work, I liked the 4150 manners better street driving it( which I occasionally did( W5 motor)

I just took a 950 off my little 318( car has yet to run like I think it will)... Trick little engine masters mill..... But I put a 750 on it night before last and went for a quick jaunt.... Let's just say I am eagerly looking forward to getting back to the track with it. Think that 950 was flat killing the little motor, we will soon see. Smaller is often better.

Try tuning the squirters to help the 60 fts. Dominators tend to come with dual 50 CC pumps and big squirters

My bet is that it is REALLY rich down low............most PS carbs seem to be. That makes it lazy early

Yep.
Did you put timing in it yet???? It needs 39* 40* on pump gas.
And no way is that 1050 to big Don that engine was built around that 1050.

Are you running a carb spacer? If not trying one may help.

I know this little 318 was run on the engine masters dyno with best results with a 950 on it.
I am pretty sure it is going to ET WAY better with a 750 on it. Will know soon. I will have tried both.
Isn't the OP's motor a dyno motor as well?

What shape are the tires in ?

Sounds like the new carb needs some tuning. What was the weather like when you ran 6.21? And the 6.37? Do you have an o2 meter on it? You said the best on TT night was 6.37, what was the worst? Spinning or not? How many TT hits did you make? Did it run better at the beginning or the end of the night? IMHO it sounds like your carb is rich.

When I was tuning my Dart in very good air it ran great as it heated up and we got more humidity (we get a ton) it would slow way down. As I leaned it down the et swing became less drastic. It also sounds like your unturned 950 was pretty close.

I think it is rich also. At full throttle is seems to run fine but it seems to run a little rough on the return road or when I am cruising along about 2500 rpm. Last year I sent the 1050 back to Pro Systems to rebuild it and I gave them all the info that they ask about motor. I have the sheet with all the specs on the Carb. It has #90 jets in it. I am not a carburetor guy, I have not changed anything on the carb since I got it back. I am sure it needs to be tuned.

Sounds like same carb I bought from Patrick( I used to work with him years ago before he opened his business)
Mine he called an 1100, not a 1050. He likes to put big squirters in his stuff, think mine came with 45's. Worked fine, no bog or hesitation. Mine would also load up at cruise rpm, never played with it other than jetting changes, as I know squat about carbs. This on a 13.3 compression 422 inch motor. Had to constantly put your foot in it to not foul plugs, but at WOT worked perfect....... But no faster and way worse manners than that 4150 style carb. It can probably be tuned with bleeds to run better at part throttle, but I bet it will never ET any better than what you had. Might indeed make a bit more horsepower on a dyno, but not on your time slip.

I'll call Tha carb guy and get him to tell you what it needs.

I guarantee in the RIGHT hands the dommy would be faster and every "custom" carb I`ve worked on so far had horrible idle/transition manners and my dommy is awesome on the street and track and even get decent mileage and that's w/91 pump gas......................

Don it's already faster 2MPH AND .1 tenth
The intake built around 1050 so when carb is right it will smoke the 950 but WTF do I know I just built the engine.

And AGAIN I ASK WHAT TIMING IS IN IT??

Have you replaced valves spring? When I fixed heads up said one more year on spring.

Was that 2 or 3 years ago?

when I went Dominator had to come way down on the squirters to get 60 foot back then gain a smidge 60 foot.

I have not changed springs and the timing is still 35*.
It was 3 yrs ago when you worked on heads. I have not made that many passes on the motor since you worked on the heads ,maybe 50 1/8 mile passes.I upped my shift point the other day just to see if it made any difference (from 6800 to 7200 rpm and it picked up). I figured if the springs were weak it would not have picked up when I raised the shift RPM.I know I need to up the timing. But I figured I need to find out why it lost 60ft. first. I may be wrong. I appreciate all the help. I tried to post the sheet from ProSystems but I could not.

Sorry Brett, poster didn't mention the intake was designed to work best with a dominator.
The modified intake I bought from you years ago definately DIDNT work better with a dominator than a 4150 carb, I did lots of testing to prove it, and on a motor that makes more power than the OP.... So they don't always ET better.
Edit..... I think a 4500 built manifold has advantages, no doubt.

Here is some of the specs on carb.
Primary lean-rich Secondary lean-rich
Main jet 90 87-94 MJ 90 87-94
Hi air 36 40-30 hi air 36 40-30
Int Air 76 80-55 int air 76 80-55
Int Fuel 40 int fuel 40
Idle air 52 70-40 idle air 52 70-40
Idle feed 35 idle feed 35
PV feed 86 Pv feed X
PV PL PV PL

It has 40/40 squirters

I wrote these in columns I do not know why it put it all together.

Most any Dominator from certain builders, that is specified for a "small block" is going to be WAY rich down low. Why is that you ask.....small motors, big carbs, equal low air speed down low. So to be sure it comes on the brake clean, they tend to put WAY too much fuel in it down low. Does it HAVE to be this way? No, of course not, just needs to be properly tuned. The motor in question obviously needed the Dominator, as with even a poor tune it picked up MPH.......that's power. Now if it slowed in 60ft, that is reflected in the ET, which may not be better, but power is power and more of it will make the ET quicker with a proper tune.

Haven't heard many if any say I'm gonna put a 4150 on to go faster then a 4500.
My 440" made 40hp from proper timing...I saw it with every degree added.

And I didn't say that either. I said on some motors they might not pick up swapping out a 4150. On a heavier car without a lot of motor, 4150 might well ET better.My old 422 W5 motor being an example. That said I took off a 1025 race a Demon rs, and I didn't lose by the swap, just didn't gain anything. Depends on the intake as well, a dominator flanged intake has definate advantages. My 422 intake I used an adapter, probably part of the equation no doubt. The 1025 wasnight and day better on the street. I was an idiot getting rid of it to gain nothing and suffer in drive ability.
Patrick at pro systems is a friend of mine. He loaned me a 750 4150 carb, and a 1000 cfm 4150 carb. Tried both those, the 1100 dominator and the 1025 race demon. The 750 only ran about 13 hundreds worse than the Dom and race demon.
Bigger isn't always better. My little 318 was dyno'ed at engine masters with a 950 on it. It I am sure made the most power with it. I put a 750 on it the other night, and the car seemed noticeably quicker pretty much right out of the box.Have yet to verify the results at the track, but will soon

Here is pic of intake and adapter that Brett done on my motor.

i will try the carb spec sheet again.

That's a wacky tune up in my humble opinion.................What`s the emulsion set up?

Same exact carb I had. It's an 1100, not a 1050. Only difference is squirters sizes that I can see.

Thumper do you see anything that would cause me to loose 60ft? Or anybody else got any ideas.

1 tenth and 2 mile an hour WOW.this thread should be Pro System kicks butt. that's very impressive.I'd say try the timing thing.and talk to your converter people it might need to be loosened up a few. Rpm can help air speed down low dominators don't like slow Air speed.but like what was mentioned more timing would be my first test

I`d size down the squirters for starters and mess w/float level and emulsion sizing and maybe a t-slot jet and as others mentioned timing stall etc.

No 4500 experience, but I'd get timing squared away first.

Distributor locked out or have advance curve? Initial timing will have a large impact on idle characteristics, signal strength, etc. Need that set up before you mess with the carb or you will just end up chasing your tail.

Rich at the hit and rich at part throttle can be tuned with squirters, idle feed restriction and transfer slot, as Thump stated.

Would love to see your spec sheet posted up. I bet it is VERY similar to ALOT of others he does, regardless of the combo it was built for. Seen it many times before.

When I bought my Dommy it had 28 squirters thinking they were too small went 42 before I tried it picked up 1 tenth and 2 mph. but 60 was slower. next week after a couple tt's changed back to the 28 sqirters it came with and 60 foot cam back so was now .2 and 2 mph faster.
Guess guy who owned it before me had it right.

Put the timing in the motor, I went from 9.70s to 9.50s with 4° of timing. It will help 60 ft too.

Thanks, that sounds what I need to try. It has #40 squirters in it now.

Also I forgot to say that I FOOT BRAKE. I do not have a trans brake.

Why is it so hard to just add timing... I would start
at 2* per jump

The 1100 of Patrick's I had came armed with 45 squirters. Either off the foot or the brake the car 60 footed the same number( and if the car is sorted out that should be the case with most such bracket cars)
Don't think I ever tried smaller squirters, the 45's were just as crisp as could be. I have no idea why he uses such big squirters after getting all the combo information and then building a custom carb to suit that combo..... But they seem to be the norm.

I have the timing set exactly where it was when I had the 950 on it when I was having 1.33-1.34 60ft. times. I did not know that you had to change the timing when you changed the carb. I was just wondering why I lost 60ft. with the bigger carb. That was the only change. I lost at least 6 hundreds in the 60 ft. But I am here to learn something..

I dont know didilly but if the guy that built the
engine says jump the timing up... thats what I do

Pull timing! Less power more hook....? Idk anymore

I thought it would be better to figure out the carb problem before I started changing the timing. I guess I will try more timing next time to the track.

And you are right........If you lost 60ft, with the same timing you had before, the carb is NOT right. Yes timing may help it, but it would have likely helped before as well. Bigger carb, slower 60ft, equals that it is TOO RICH down low. Fix that, 60ft will come back

Monte

From some of the reply's that I got on this problem, It seems I need to try smaller squirters to see if it will help get my lost 60 ft. back. I was told yesterday that it looked like it puffed some black smoke when I left the starting line.
The 1050 has #40 in it now. I have 2 #31's and 2 #35's I can try. I will have to buy some more to try.

50cc pumps?

Yes.... The #35's that I have are in the 950 Holley I was running. I assume the squirters will work in either carb.

That carb comes with 50cc accelerator pumps
The squirters were 40's as delivered. You can certainly try smaller ones, like your 31's and 35's

There is a lot more to it being rich down low, than just squirter size. You are going to have to change some brass somewhere most likely. You are not a carb tuner.........OK, but the guy you paid your good money to is supposed to be. Call him and ask him what to do if you are not sure.

Summit sells an "accelerator pump tune up kit"...Its a little pricey but it sure is nice to have the kit when trying to get a crisp tune. All different sizes of squirters...accelerator pump cams and different gaskets and screws. At 134.95 its a bit of a hit but I like having it around...
http://www.summitracing.com/search/department/air-fuel-delivery/section/carburetors-accessories/part-type/carburetor-accelerator-pump-tuning-kits?N=4294951509%2B4294949628%2B4294847485

You have( in my opinion) a big carb on your motor, and it's an 1100 not a 1050, it says so right on your spec sheet.
With too big of carbs, from what I read, the problem generally isn't rich, it's lean. This because the motor doesn't have the airspeed to pull in fuel.
A bandaid is having big squirters. In your case even bigger squirters might help your 60 foot more than getting rid of those 40's and putting in smaller ones. So it's unlikely it's rich down low, it's likely lean.
Anyhow, just read a big carb article by two gurus, that mentioned the above stuff, so thought I would post it here.
Think they were Rick Baker and Zach Hobbs of Quickfuel and Proform.

The squirters main purpose is to cover the momentary lean spot from the butterflies being opened so you need just enuff to do that any more is a waste and black smoke as others told you. I told you if you sent me a pic of the blocks we could figure something out but as Monte said, maybe your carb skills are shy a bit and that`s cool cos we`re willin to help you out as many have helped us out over the years. Here`s the deal in a nutshell............EVERY single carb from them him who ever is pig rich down low so they`re safe for most cars or that`s the bs being slung around and tell that to your plugs and oil which suffer along w/the ring seal etc. I`m tired and hope you get it figured out but if you send it back AGAIN I`d bet it`ll be the same or close in tune so PLEEZZEE prove me(us)wrong and good luck either way.

If the carb was built for THIS motor, he knows its a smallblock and the low air speed should be taken into account. I am also basing my assumption of rich, from my experience with these carbs, from this source, on a small block.......Plus the OP has already said it puffs smoke at the hit. He hasn't said how it idles, or how many turns the idle screws have to be out, or blades cracked to make it idle. But again, based on experience, I am betting its got a LOT of fuel in it down low. Plus if it is lean, they usually stumble......rich just makes it lazy

OP indeed said it was " lazy" down low. 60 is off from his previous 4150 carb.
I too know Patrick, from way back before his carb days. I bought the exact same carb off him for my small block.only difference I saw( based of the spec sheet OP posted up thread) was mine had 45 squirters, this one has 40's.
Mine 60 footed good, worked good, but fouled plugs on anything other than very short street jaunts. In short worked fine. But that carb was on more motor than this one being discussed. I just didnthave the knowledge to tune it for cruise.
I don't know, just seems more one size fits all than it probably should be for a custom piece. Could big squirters cover up lean at the hit?... I don't know, just trying to lesrn

Have yet to see a PS carb that was NOT pig fat down low period...Also amazed how many carbs out of that place seem to be exactly the same regardless of combo it is going in.

It's not just PS. I had Quick Fuel put together a 750 for my 340 and it was pig rich down low. I know of a few more QF carbs that were the same way.

It`s the carb industry these dayz to make em safe so rich is easier for the AVERAGE guy/gal to mess with cos they`ll idle easier cold and run ok but as many of us have seen, it leaves a bit to be desired.

When I say the same I mean the same set up, as in bleeds, jets, emulsions etc. Not just its characteristics.

I sent ProSystems a message on their tech forum last night and explained what was happening. I got a reply today telling me to lower the main jets 2 steps at a time until I pick up mph. He said if it is rich down low it probably is rich all the way down the track.