LIFTER - OK to re-assemble, or should I replace?

I'm pulling my Holley Strip Dominator single plane intake off to replace with Perfomer RPM dual-plane (it had more bottom end grunt where I needed it).

Once I pulled the intake, upon closer inspection I noticed that 3 of the 16 lifters (SealedPower HT2011R) popped the retainer clip out.

So here is what my lifters look like:


And here is the clip that popped out:


Now, when originally installed I set these up with 0 (zero) pre-load, they are meant to do this. However the motor was a little noisy so I re-adjusted my rocker arms to give them a tad of pre-load (basically 1/2 turn from zero). Motor quieted down, all seemed good.

I suspect that the extra pre-load actually caused the retaining clips to pop-out...they have never done this before when I ran them with zero pre-load.

Is it acceptable for me to simply re-assemble the lifter with the clip? Or is this something that I should be worried about?

I took one of the lifters, disassembled it, all looked good, re-assembled and the clip slid right in. Looks like it should be good, but I do not want this failing once it's up and running.

Looking around I see that SealedPower seems to have moved to the hard snap-ring retainer...

OK, no one?

I like the solid-looking NEWer version of this lifter with it's snap-ring retainer. Does anyone know the diameter of the snap-ring I'd need to use?

I am thinking I might as well just replace all the metal retaining clips with the snap-ring...

I would have a issue with just throwing another clip
at it... it came apart once already..... JMO

Who knows. The lifters with the newer snap ring might be machined differently than what you have. Hyd lifters are cheap. Toss em and put in new ones.

If your lifter body ID has been machined for the Tru Arc clip like used in your bottom lifter picture, I'd replace all those thin retainers with the Tru Arc style. A Northern Tool by me stocks a good selection of the Tru Arc's.

Usually the clips or retaining rings pop out because you don't have the proper preload.With proper preload the plunger should never contact the retainer.If it plunger contacts the retainer it will pop it out.When setting preload on a hydrualic lifter turn the rocker adjuster to zero lash then 1/4 to 1/2 turn to set the plunger away from the retainer.Make sure the lifter is on the bottom of the cam lobe.Do not reuse the retainer.

Alright...thanks guys!

I'm leaning towards replacing the spring clips first. The problem as LSP pointed out is that I have no way of knowing if the newer style lifter is machined the same way as the older style.

A set of new HT2011R lifter is about $110, not a bad price given the headache of this stuff coming apart again. My only worry there is tossing NEW lifters on a used cam...the current ones are already mated up with the cam lobes...am I not potentially looking at screwing up my cam?

I've replaced a few cams in my past, but each one was always installed with a NEW set of lifters and I have never done this half-life replacement...so please educate me on the potential (or lack of) for wear problems and best re-start process. I'm guessing if I treat the new lifters/old cam as a NEW combo I would just go through my regular "new cam break-in" process...is that sufficient?

The HT2011R lfiters are specifically meant to be installed with zero lifter pre-load (this is as per their instructions). The thinking there is that by removing all the pre-load from the start the lifters never actually pump-up at the higher RPM. This is how I had originally set them up.

I see that CompCams now shows the following in their Adjustment Instructions for the ProMagnum lifters "...Through various testing we have discovered that the recommended lifter pre-load should be set between zero and 1/8 of a turn for optimal performance...", so with these lifter bodies they seem to be pursuing similar approach to the HT2011R lfiters.

I will tell you that my motor easily went to 6500 RPM with these lifters adjusted to zero pre-load and my HE3844AL cam. Once I introduced the slight amount of pre-load to quiet it down the RPM did drop and the motor would not pull as high anymore...so my crude "butt-meter" did validate the whole anti pump-up theory.

Your point about the plunger contacting the retainer is well taken though. Given that I actually pre-loaded these during my last adjustment I'm guessing that the lifters did pump-up and maybe I actually got into a bit of valve-float situation where the retainer no longer captured the plunger in the lifter body.

My question is: If you are going to set them at zero lash, thereby negating the self adjusting properties of a hydraulic lifter, why not just run a solid cam and lifters?

Well, I picked these lifters way back when (no joke, we're talking like around 2001-2002 when I was going through the engine block machining and final parts gathering) and mechanical cam was not part of the build at that time.

Having said that, the anti pump-up lifters do give you the flexibility of having the lifters still deliver some of that self-adjustement, but it is very minimized. The end result is you do not run any lash, and have no need to re-adjust your mechanical cam setup. Hyphothetically, the best of both worlds.

OK, reality is a bit different, a mechanical cam can be a lot more aggresive then a comparable hydraulic cam, or if of comparable dur @ 0.050 it will have better street manners then any hydraulic bumpstick.

Hey...you do, you learn...lol...right now I'm grumpy because my weekend intake swap plan turned into a week-long lifter replacement job...still need to find the source of the HT2011R lifters and get that shipped by next weekend....

as has been said, the clips of the lifters got out because you had lash at some point during engine operation, allowing the `cups` of the lifters to contact the retaining clips. i looked in the speed-pro catalog (sealed power), and for the anti pump-up lifters they advise setting lash at .002in. HOT. they also recommend that if the engine is noisy at this setting, that you should tighten the lash. after seeing what this approach did to your lifters, i would lash HOT for a 1/8 to a 1/4 turn preload. i would use NEW lifters, same brand ok. as for installment precautions, while the lifters are out of the engine, i would directly pour thick 20w50 oil on the cam lobes through the openings of the lifter valley and use assembly lube on the base of the lifters before installing them in their bores. for break-in, use the same procedures that would be needed with a new camshaft i.e. 20 minutes at 2000rpms, then change the oil. during break-in, notice if the engine is noisy (valvetrain), if so, tighten the lash a bit AFTER the break-in. this time, you should not have a problem with your lifters again.

- or you floated the valves and the pumped in to the retainers.

Alright you guys, I spent some time on the phone today trying to locate the new HT2011R lifters...no luck, Summit does not have them in-stock until Jun-1st. Even called FederalMogul (SpeedPro, SealedPower parent company), got a real friendly tech on the phone, described the situation to him but he didn't have any technical details (sizing, etc) on the lifter components. Not wanting to just sit there and wait I carried on...call me crazy, but here is what I've done:

1) I could not measure the ID of the lifter body machined grove (this is where the clip is retained within the lifter body), which meant I did not know the exact 'Grove Size Diameter'

2) I took a peek at my CompCams hydraulic roller lifters (retro-fit) and as it turned out they were using the snap-ring retainers, so off I went "sacrificing" one (well, I carefully removed the snap-ring)

3) I measured the dimensions of the ring, trial fitted into my HT2011R lifter body, it worked perfectly, once installed in the HT2011R lifter the snap-ring 'Gap Width' was exactly the same as when installed in the CompCams roller lifters, thus my conclusion that the "fit was right"

4) I hit on-line, maxing out the Google search engine (LOL, I'm an IS guy by profession) lights dimmed everywhere...eventually I came up with the RotorClip site (rotorclip.com) where a massive amounts of data is available for these snap-rings, and many other types

5) I measured all the lifter body, plunger, CompCams roller lifter snap-ring dimensions and easily, I mean I didn't even break sweat on their site (RotorClip), matched it up to the HO-68 snap-ring...I've attached the PDF drawing and their snap-ring catalog pages just for kicks...but it sure looks like this snap-ring is the right one.

Sooo...I'm hitting Fastenal tomorrow in hopes of being able to order a bunch of these. If I can, I will be able to re-use my lifters with the improved snap-ring retainer!!!

I can't see the pictures , flat tappet or roller ? Did the clip come completely out or only part way and the cup was cocked ?

I had a clip come part way out, cocked the cup and it stopped the lifter from rotating, ground the lobe off the cam.

So many manufactured parts are standardized. O-rings, Snap rings and clips, seals, rolling element bearings, and Woodruff keys are just a few of the things that are made in specific sizes.

The designer needs a certain part so he looks in the catalog and picks out the one that meets his needs.

The designer does not figure out what he needs, then get someone to build it. That would be stupid.

Good for you to figure that out!

R.

Awesome! You're good to go!

Flat tappet. No...luckily for me the plunger was not cocked as it came out easy once I pulled the lifters...I have 1 more lifter to check but the previous 2 there were no issues.

Nice work Diplomat360!

any confirmation this actually worked?
i had the same saturday night and missed out on a car show fundraiser sunday.

lucky no carnage aside from pride and some $$$

time for some new rockers and push rods
but id like to retain the lifters as they are new.
and it looks like just faulty retainer wire.
just would feel safer with the snap rings.

Sent you a PM...in the meantime I'm looking for some pics to post in this thread to better illustrate why I could not make the snap-ring in the old style lifter work...well, it was "iffy", so I took the safer way out since I had everything taken apart anyways and replacing the lifters was easy to do.

well here it is.

Rhodes Mopar RL2018 vs my lifters with the suggested snap ring from @Diplomat360




i think it should be ok a million times better then the clip.
and every lifter i see for the 440, their snap ring looks exactly the same.

i am still working on getting a package of crower's snap rings to see if they fit.

three more weeks for the new rockers and push-rods.
wish me luck ill try to update my results.

I had a set of Crower hyd rollers with the same retainers as those. They wouldn't stay in the lifter, I found 2 or three that had come out. The problem with them was that the grove that they were in wasn't square, but just a round grove. I threw them out and got something better.

Sorry, I have not been able to find any of my old photos and the lifters I did actually re-built (the older style original ones) are somewhere in my Mopar parts room, which is an un-excusable mess.

OK, the photo you posted does look exactly like what my install ended up being. Makese sense, I think we both used the same parts. Given that the internal plunger was only barely retained with the ring eye-lets I just didn't have the guts to run 'em like that. So I went ahead and ordered a new set of lifters which no longer have that same design.

I agree, I think even with these rings they provide a much harder plunger stop...but I would be worried about the lifter pumping up and if the groves in lifter are not perfectly square it would take very little to possibly pop that ring out completely.

I put the flat side up and radius side down so it fits nicer in the groove. Either way. I'm now scared of the wire retainer costing me another set of custom magnum pushrods since they take 3 weeks to get in.

Since they look like all the other snap ring hydraulic lifters. I'll take the chance. Its still far superior then the wire retainers.

I will update with results. If these fail then I ll be forced to get diff lifters and or go mechanical with adjustable rockers.

I used a set of the same lifters from Comp in my recent 340 stroker build, three or four of the retainers had come out or where coming out after less than three minute run time
I blame that on trying to use 3/8 pushrods with Edlebrock heads and Harland sharp rockers, maybe that is not so

well i hope not i just bought a set of magnum 3/8 9.300 push rods.
however the ends are still 5/16ths

@Cab_Burge did you mean the Rhodes Mopar RL2018 or SealedPower HT2011R?

i know 440s and most of the mopars dont like high oil pressure when using hydrualic lifters.

i have mine locked at 60psi. no higher no lower unless theres a failure of course.

The Seal Power type looking lifters from Comp Cams
I would never use a Rhoads type lifter in any of my or customers motors

comp cams Hi-Tech™ 882-16 Hydraulic Lifters: AMC V8; Chrysler V8


Sealed Power Hi-Rev Hydraulic Lifters HT-2011R


i think im going to proceed and replace them all with the snap ring.

I would never use a Rhoads type lifter in any of my or customers motors tsk twocents


Can you articulate as to why?

so far seems to work fine.

sadly though cant high rpm test.
possibly spun a bearing on the same cylinder the rod went on.

shes out for the season. time for a high volume pump and bearings.
hopefully crank/rods ok. will know once pan is off.

FYI the magnum pushrods are sexy as all hell

Holy smokes...that just seems crazy...the Comp Cams lifters (judging by the photo you posted) end up looking precisely like the fixed old-style SealedPower lifters...so maybe that little interference between the snap-ring and the inner plunger is actually sufficient enough???

Either way, sorry to hear you ran into another problem having overcome this one.

I don't like using parts that patch up a problem that can be fixed properly with the correct part selection
That and there history of making noise and less power at idle

i dont think the tappet is the cause of the pump-up failure.
its the actual piston/plunger. the outer piece.

i still havent opened the pan yet. this month has been too stressful.
i dont want to be haunted just yet. will keep you guys up to date.

did a couple pulls the snap rings seem to be doing their job.
will put a few miles on them and see

Ok so for my hyd lifters (not sure what brand) I need the HO-68 snap rings?

Yeah they work.
Just a tip though put the curve side up.
Flat side towards the tappet.

I did a few 6k pulls through all gears no issue so far.
Will open rockers in a few weeks when I park her for season.
Plates registration ends Oct.

thank you. I emailed em for a quote/shipped. I would think you would want the flat side up to be more secure against the cup/snap ring flying upward but I will go with your recommendation.

the cutout inside the lifer is round. having it rounded side up fits more snug.
if you do it the other way there is a gap



stupid hot outside, did a few HARD pulls to 6k
still together.

Noted (& wrote down). thank you!