bushing lifter bores on a sb

anyone ever bush the lifter bores on a small block? was there a performance increase. just curious if small blocks are in need of this procedure. don't know if its worth the money spent.

I've done it on most of my SB's... no you wont see any performance
gain but it might save your engine if a lifter flies out of a bore

I tube mine as its a lot CHEAPER.

I've done it both ways... if the bore angle is off the tube doesnt
do anything to correct that but the bushing job will... but it
does cost more

Unless the block is very important to you i.e. lots of machining already done, good expensive block or has some seriously loose lifter bores, I would just start with a different block. Bushing bores is a very expensive operation, and judging by your other thread, I think your oil pressure is more then enough as it is. If you really want to, you can tube the lifter gallery- much cheaper, but MUCH more time consuming...somewhat crude, and a [censored] to do, but it will increase your oil pressure.

To be honest, I have asked about oil pressure related stuff many times, and based on what you said yours runs at, I think your good...Im no expert, but thats my 2 cents

One other thing about tubing the block... that kit is discontinued
so you better know someone with the whole kit(its 2 kits) that will
loan it out.. I loaned my out a few years ago and it never came back

You can buy and modify what it takes to tube it. I've done several with good results .The last few I had a machine shop drill and ream the galley and I was able to do the rest. In my X block I tubed both sides as my indy heads used push rod oiling, I drilled a.100 in the lifter bores with the mopar lifter bore drilling tool. Unless your lifter bores are worn out the lifter bore broach sold by Hughes engines finishes them very well.

I have never worried about saving and engine after a lifter comes out--if you ask me it is a little too late for that kind of hope and...you block the oil to stop the 16 leaks around the lifters--OK spend $900 plus to do it or...just plug the one side with a 2 cent drive in plug on drivers side and leave the other side alone --now you have spent two cents to stop up 8 of the leaks for a little better oiling--the other $899.98 seems excessive to stop the other 8 I know you get corrected lifter bores etc but really?
The old drill and peen package from Mopar was a joke--You need a drill bit easy available from tool store $20 --that reamer ain't going in those crooked factory holes--then you need $6 worth of plumbing pipe--then you need to grind a round nose on an old lifter--then you have it for less than $30 The lifter galley holes are drilled half way from rear and half way in from front --they meet but if it was a highway tunnel job no cars could pass --it is awful so a drill bit not a reamer is in order--besides if you use the reamer the pipe will not fit in the hole--way too tight--IMO many a good block has been ruined while folks learn how to do that operation--drive in the plug on one side and race your rear end off--easy breezy. Got an R block--going to make giant HP--then by all means have bores bushed--stock block? I think it is bif=ggest waste I have ever seen--

I guess you havent tried to buy a R-block lately... good luck on it..
also the 2 tubes dont butt together.. both holes stop short of each
other in the middle so it doesnt matter if they line up... and I
have NEVER paid more than $500(just had it done) to have a block bushed

It straightens the lifter bores and gets them all pointing the same direction. Smallblocks get worn due to that ugly pushrod angle and they wear to an oval shape.

Wow! A lot of good info. That's for that. Crabman, where exactly does the plug go. Not familiar with the oiling arraignment on sm.

You tap the feed hole from the front main saddle to the driver side lifter galley. Usually 3/8x16 and put a set screw in with red loc-tite. Turns oil off to the driver side lifters. The tubes go in the passenger side lifter galley. A little effort will make the engine stand a lot of abuse and live. All the leaking oil past the lifters will now go to the main and rod bearings instead. You can get really crafty and dam the oil up in the valley and return upper end oil through the driver side lifter galley behind the timing chain gear.

Demon engine has all these mods. and 1890 passes and counting. Crank and pistons never out of block from new. 418 c.i. in demon. 587 production cyl heads. 9.68 at 136mph

443c.i. short block

Where is the feed hole located and does the pass side have to be tubed along with it or is there a feed on pass that can be plugged as well?

The #1 main saddle has three holes that intersect just under bearing. One to cam bearing, one to the passenger side galley and one the driver side galley. You tap and plug the hole to the driver side galley. If you plug the hole to the pass. side galley the #1 main, #1rod and #1 cam bearing will get no oil as well as the driver side lifters. The pass side galley is the supply oil for #1,#2, #3 and #4 mains and #1-#7 rods. The #5 main and #8 rod get oil from the end of hole coming from the oil filter. The tubes go in the pass. side galley which will let oil flow, but stop leakage past lifters. You can get the .029 wall 9/16" brass tube from K+S metals. The tubes are a bit of a PITA to install and the hole has to be reamed with a long 9/16" drill before attempting to install.

If you turn oil off to driver side lifters and open up the holes from #2, #3, and #4 main saddle to pass. side galley to 9/32" it will be helpful. 340 blocks have 9/32" hole already.

OK thanks. I thought Crabman said tubing was a joke and just plugged the drivers side. What would that be doing with a plug to Dr side and no tube on pass?

If you want to see it and read about the tubing its in the MP SB
book

bushing lifter bores on any serious motor is a no brainer imo. correcting the angle is a bonus. non R blocks are mighty thin though.

I've never broke a lifter bore.. bushed or not.. have you Tony

Original "R" block

After repair

ok, i'll check that out. thanks Mike.

have you ever had the angle CNC corrected?

Yes... the block I'm running now... I was told that one bank was
about 1.25* off.. and they corrected that.. I have checked others
and came up with some less than 1* but let it fly

Not to detract from topic but what is recommended for clearance on new bushing and lifter ..in my case using solid roller ??

I like .001

oh not more clearance .. is there any need to drill a small in side bushing to line up with the oil band of lifter on base circle if Not going with push rod oiling ?

You dont need to add the hole if your not using hyd or PR oiling..
the lifters get plenty of oil from the drain back from the top end

All I will add to this is you better read up and understand how the oiling system works BEFORE attempting this. Joe Blow said this and Jimmy Tightwad said this doesn't help after you forget to drill a hole here or there. Lots of GOOD articles with step by step instructions and its a very easy process. You have two or three different processes going on in this thread.

I had a hole put in mine so I could either do push rod oiling or through the head.

Thats why I suggested reading the MP SB book on it.. it gives you
the oil flow path and goes into how to do it... yes if you do it
wrong or forget to drill a hole, you end up with a spun bearing

Not sure who is charging 900.00 but most I have ever paid is 600.00. Control the oil going to the cam bearings also drilled .030 plugs work for me keeps oil on the mains and rods and not on the cam bearings.

yes and I appreciate all the info here. rereading crabmans post I think I fully understand he's saying to just plug the drivers side with a plug at the #1 or front main journal and don't bother with tubing the pass. side. I like the idea. will any bearings be starved for oil with this simple procedure?
cam journals are grooved for full time oiling and I oil thru the head(restricted) and well as spray bars in the valve covers.

I used that reaming tool from MP. It can be difficult to use. It needs low speed and a good amount of pressure and lube. I used a hand drill and basically had to stand on it to get it to work. The front of the reamer does not cut, it only cuts on the sides. What I did was get the front grooves of the reamer and ground them on an angle to act as a cutter, similar to a drill bit. They are normally flat at the front and don't cut. After grinding an angle on all the front edges, the process was much much easier. It cut the lifter gallery bigger as well as reaming the gallery to the 5/8" so that the 1/2" copper pipe could go in. As stated above half the pipe goes in from the front and half goes in from the rear. Also tap the front gallery for a pipe plug with loc-tite instead of using the cup style core plug. Then you need to peen the copper pipe with an old lifter that is ground down some to make it go in. After the lifter can go in, a little flap wheel to polish the tube so the lifter can freely slide up and down.
This procedure is basically free if you can borrow the reamer tool, but time consuming.
Edit The block needs to be fully cleaned after this process. But we all know that.

best machine quoted me a price for lifter bushing a few years back and I think it was about $650-$700 back then. my machinist does it for $450. best also said it could be worth up to 30hp.
I like the plug the drivers side and let it eat gig.

Regardless of how you do it, I thought this might be handy.

Yes. Thank you. I looked in all of my books and could not find a diagram as good as this one. Looks like all the bearings are feed from the pass side, so no worries starving bearings but just plugging at front #1 main.

That diagram shows the number 1 main getting oil from the drivers side

Yeah, I wouldn't do it that way myself.

yeah, now I know what the cross over tube is for. to get more oil to the front main, but if you did not have the crossover tube and plugged that orifice at the the front main as crabman explained, wouldn't that produce more pressure at that front main. I don't believe I have a problem getting oil to that front main as of now.

Back in the day when Herb and the guys were using a W2 head, 4 speed and leaving off the mat--umm yea they were looking for any advantage in oiling--My points were this: That "kit" Mopar sold was crap--it was expensive --could be sourced local for tons less and just did not work well at all--you wound up tossing the reamer, getting a drill bit and the issues just kept on adding up --and for what? Beceause it was in the Mopar book folks thought they had to do it. Many a good block has been ruined while folks learned how to really do it--You guys are bracket racing--turn it 6500 and shift--WTH!! Goofing around with a $50 stock block--spend big $$$$ to correct the lifters --Duh??? I know that corrected lifter geometry helps some--in a bracket engine who cares??? The slant six car that runs 16 seconds will whip your behind with a baby seat in the back and the same oil that was in there when he bought the car if he can DRIVE--Bracket racers all tend to want to go faster never thinking about winning--that has always floored me! My point was that for the price of a 2 cent drive in plug you could get half the benefit and plug 8 of the 16 leaks. I had 3 race cars with small blocks and made hundreds of rounds with them over 15 years--I never saw any advantage to spending the $$$ so that if an engine was already flying apart that I could keep oil pressure???? That is just silly! If I had an aftermarket block and was doing a max effort small block sure--it is well worth doing but I was able to take a $30 cast 360 crank--turn it up to 7200 for years with zero issues--never even spun a rod bearing--Never hurt an engine ever in all my years of racing--never once!! Blew some Torqueflites to smithereens--Now THAT is where to spend some $$$$!!
To perpetuate the Myth that new guys here NEED to tube a $50 bracket race block is a dis-service and that was my gripe--

The main point is this--do all the magic oil stuff you want and an old dude that lives in the trailer park ( no offense) and works at the mill and has zero $$ to toss around--will take the slant 6 car he drives to work everyday and win many of the bracket races he enters because he is paying attention to what matters and can drive--Oil Magic guys are just third round Ducks for him

I agree, and it's kinda hard to wipe the smile off your face when that happens. The OP in his other thread states he's planning on 7500. I would think the crossover is all he would need with the 1 main to dr galley plug.

What head I ask is going to do him any good at 7500 in a bracket engine? Why plan an RPM level--see what cam will make the car 60 ft hard and be right for car weight and the compression ratio--oopos! Too much compression is a bummer in a small block with 10 head bolts better plan on head gasket replacement often--now THAT is a weak spot on a small block not the darn oiling! Then with 7500 you need really lite valves--titanium retainers, PAC springs and very light strong rods and pistons--and Real expensive rockers-- all very expensive stuff OR--you can just hang a set of lite pistons on stock rods on stock crank and turn it 6500 range and have a CHEAP FAST reliable engine
that will make hundreds of laps over years with zero issues
OK 7500 RPM--a head that can make use of that on a small block is not cheap --and when you dyno them 6500 vs. 7500 is the extra cost WORTH the extra HP vs. the lost reliability?????
It is fun to twist the guts out of an engine--I always thought JR Johnson was an Azz but he said one thing I loved--He said--Give me an engine that will never quit going upstairs and I will whip anybody--He had a need for that--average bracket racer does not
That baby seat in the back of the slant 6 car is what hurts the most at the turn off road

You make some statements I sure dont agree with... a bracket racer
just trying to go faster wont win..they dont care about winning..
wrong... and being that you only want to turn 6200.. well thats you..
you can build a VERY dependable engine that turns higher.. I have
a 395ci that turns 8200 every pass.. and its been doing it for years
and still is... SB like the rpm to make the torque... but as usual
you have to build them for rpm... by the way.. my car is dead on
and does it all day long

just want to clear something up. i'm not a bracket racer. ET chaser at best. last pump gas combo(408) went 10.35@130 in a 3300# car. just freshening the engine with some improvements. the heads are indy 360-1 that flowed 325@.700 and should improve once I get them back from Dwayne Welder. I use cometic gaskets and this build is getting ARP head studs. pac springs will be in use, but i'm told 7500 is limit on steel retainers.

408DUST turns his 10K plus

Titanium retainers will amaze you--they make springs last and give you extra RPM free --with the bonus of protection from float etc That combo is a candidate for first class build no doubt--sounds awesome! Good Luck!
Indy bought out the old Batton w2 aluminum core boxes etc and made changes to come up with the Indy SB heads way back years ago If you ever see the Battons for sale PASS they are sponges and will not hold water. Any that will are on engines--ones in the flea market won't

[quote=Quicktree]408DUST turns his 10K plus [/quote

Not that high but I do whip it a little lol and with a thermoquad ]with cast iron heads...

What kind of RPM are you turning