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How much can you deck a 440

Posted By: BPBP440

How much can you deck a 440 - 04/12/15 10:11 PM

The late 70's RV block I am working with has a .106 deep chamfer at the top of the bore.

Three part question:
How much can you deck a 440 block?

How much before you need to cut the intake manifold?

How much before it negatively affects pushrod angle (street cruiser engine)?

Thanks!
Posted By: MoparBilly

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/12/15 10:37 PM

If it's a street cruiser, why worry about a chamfer at the top of the bore??
Posted By: BPBP440

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/12/15 10:47 PM

Perhaps. Still curious about the answers to the question for my own knowledge base, but some more background. Pretty much any flat top piston to bump me into the 9:1 area will have a top of piston above the bottom of the chamfer. Does anyone see this as an issue? Seems like a nice little pre-detonation "chamber". Thanks.
Posted By: Stanton

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/12/15 11:34 PM

Virtually every block has a chamfer, yours isn't the first and won't be the last. If you REALLY want to get rid of it, think "boring" not "decking" !!

How much can you deck ... until you hit water jackets !! Realistically, as little as you need to achieve a square deck and the deck height you want.

Just because you deck the block does not mean you have to cut the intake. You can run a thicker head gasket to make up for whatever you've cut off.

Decking has no affect on pushrod angle. The decks are always cut square to each other and 90* to the bore.
Posted By: Twostick

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/13/15 12:05 AM

IMHO as long as the top ring is below the chamfer, it's a non issue.

IIRC it took .007 to square and zero my 493.

Kevin
Posted By: quickd100

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/13/15 01:02 AM

I decked a 413 truck block .146 last fall.Dave
Posted By: BPBP440

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/13/15 01:36 AM

Originally Posted By Twostick
IMHO as long as the top ring is below the chamfer, it's a non issue.

IIRC it took .007 to square and zero my 493.

Kevin


Thanks
Posted By: BPBP440

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/13/15 01:38 AM

Originally Posted By quickd100
I decked a 413 truck block .146 last fall.Dave


Thanks for the data point. That is a fair bit.
Posted By: BPBP440

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/13/15 01:47 AM

Originally Posted By Stanton

Decking has no affect on pushrod angle. The decks are always cut square to each other and 90* to the bore.


Okay, good to know. I did not know if the push rod to rocker arm contact point was absolutely perpendicular to the lifter bore. In some engines they are not, due to optimal valve location/angle and resulting valve train geometries. Too much decking can compromise the geometry to an unacceptable point.
Posted By: BuckeyeBrawler

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/13/15 03:41 AM

I've taken .075 off of a 71 block with no issues.
Posted By: Stanton

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/13/15 04:13 AM

Quote:
Okay, good to know. I did not know if the push rod to rocker arm contact point was absolutely perpendicular to the lifter bore. In some engines they are not, due to optimal valve location/angle and resulting valve train geometries. Too much decking can compromise the geometry to an unacceptable point.


Well, its probably not perfectly perpendicular to the lifter bore in a big block but regardless, any amount of decking would not have any significant affect. You would have more of an impact by changing the rocker ratio !!
Posted By: Chris2581

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/14/15 01:42 AM

.006 to square up my 73 440 block
Posted By: Sport440

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/14/15 03:32 AM

Originally Posted By BPBP440
Perhaps. Still curious about the answers to the question for my own knowledge base, but some more background. Pretty much any flat top piston to bump me into the 9:1 area will have a top of piston above the bottom of the chamfer. Does anyone see this as an issue? Seems like a nice little pre-detonation "chamber". Thanks.




As far as how far you can go before you have to cut the intake or the intake side of the manifold, ive gone as far as .040. Even with that you might have to drill out your intake bolt holes a little, and do some port match up adjustments.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/14/15 04:46 AM

Originally Posted By BPBP440
The late 70's RV block I am working with has a .106 deep chamfer at the top of the bore.

Three part question:
How much can you deck a 440 block?

How much before you need to cut the intake manifold?

How much before it negatively affects pushrod angle (street cruiser engine)?

Thanks!
For every .010 you cut off the head surface you take
.0095 off the intake surface.. how well do your ports line up
now
wave
Posted By: Sport440

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/14/15 05:12 AM

Originally Posted By MR_P_BODY
Originally Posted By BPBP440
The late 70's RV block I am working with has a .106 deep chamfer at the top of the bore.

Three part question:
How much can you deck a 440 block?

How much before you need to cut the intake manifold?

How much before it negatively affects pushrod angle (street cruiser engine)?

Thanks!
For every .010 you cut off the head surface you take
.0095 off the intake surface.. how well do your ports line up
now



Mike for the BB, the correct known ratio is for every .010 you remove .0123 from the intakes surface, or the heads intake surface.

But, that doesn't have to be followed as gospel. As you continue to shave the head or the deck say .010, the intake/ports will keep scooting up in relationship to the heads. That can be a good thing, if you raise the port roof on your heads during porting.

A .040 deak/head shave is the max that ive gotten away with without having to touch the intake side.
wave
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/14/15 05:22 AM

Yeah. forgot... BB
wave
Posted By: quickd100

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/14/15 11:56 AM

The block I decked .146 was a 413 truck block that was bored to 4.25 and fitted with 11.5-1 max-wedge pistons. With a set of 516 heads on it the compression worked out to 8.44-1. To get to the blueprint spec of -.015 deck height I had to deck it .146, I also milled the intake .180. Final compression worked out to 11.88-1. The motor is all bolted up to the dyno but haven't had time to fire it up yet.Dave
Posted By: Dodgem

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/14/15 08:18 PM

A friend of mine went past .150 had to take a crap load off his intake. But B-body ran in 10's with stock 76 pistons.

I got .040 off block I'm running now.
Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/15/15 06:32 AM

Originally Posted By quickd100
The block I decked .146 was a 413 truck block that was bored to 4.25 and fitted with 11.5-1 max-wedge pistons. With a set of 516 heads on it the compression worked out to 8.44-1. To get to the blueprint spec of -.015 deck height I had to deck it .146, I also milled the intake .180. Final compression worked out to 11.88-1. The motor is all bolted up to the dyno but haven't had time to fire it up yet.Dave


Curious to see how that ends up sealing/working. How much did it all run (for the EXTRA machining, read: not the decking, but the extra 1/8" ov decking, extra milling etc.)? Enough to warrant not going with custom pistons (in someone else's case lets say).
Posted By: quickd100

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/15/15 11:33 AM

Cost me $150 to get it decked at a very good machine shop around here. I milled the intake manifold myself so that was just my time. The motor is a dyno mule. Dave
Posted By: cedarmachine

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/15/15 01:09 PM

Keep in mind that the OEM head gasket may have been .018” thick and your replacement may be .042". You have that difference to remove before you even have to think of the intake alignment.

I cut RB blocks to 10.680” pretty regularly with no problems. I do hit the China walls too though, so there isn't a funky step for the valley tray.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/15/15 06:37 PM

Originally Posted By cedarmachine


I do hit the China walls too though, so there isn't a funky step for the valley tray.


That is something most shops fail to do.

I have a 383 that is cut about .030 and the heads had about .050 off them, I had to take about .075 off the the china walls to get the valley pan to fit right .
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/15/15 06:59 PM

Back in the good old days we would cut .040-.045 off our 440 blocks with TRW pistons and stock rods and cranks. That with domed pistons, 750 roller cams, 906 heads, and tunnel rams would push us into the high 9's. Sure is a lot easier now.
Posted By: cedarmachine

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/15/15 07:07 PM

Originally Posted By JohnRR
Originally Posted By cedarmachine


I do hit the China walls too though, so there isn't a funky step for the valley tray.


That is something most shops fail to do.

I have a 383 that is cut about .030 and the heads had about .050 off them, I had to take about .075 off the the china walls to get the valley pan to fit right .


I index that surface with the BHj fixture as well. That way, if I'm installing a girdle, I can square the pan rails from the China wall as a reference to mount from. Some of those new cap/girdle kits require cutting the caps and the whole pan rail at once.
Posted By: Bill MeLater

Re: How much can you deck a 440 - 04/16/15 01:33 AM

It usually takes .030" just to get 'em square. Don't think there's enough material to lose the "champher" ?
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