The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated!

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 03/08/15 12:21 AM

Well...More progress. The block is assembled with all the pistons, rods, rings, and the crank and cam. Getting ready to degree it in this week....

So the first question is, where do we install it? We are thinking putting it in just as the cam card states, but I want to hear some opinions. Also note, I am using Indy rockers and they have a higher ratio than OEM at 1.60 & 1.55 compared to 1.55 & 1.52 if I remember right...

Block progress was good until we got to the lifter bores last week. We had the crank in and one rod and piston when we found all the lifter bores undersized and especially tight at the bottom. Ron re-bored some and then re-honed all of them to size...Indy's catalogue says they are finish bored, but we found otherwise. Can't wait to pay that bill....

Also, I have decided to plumb an accumulator off the right front lower oil port just to the right of the timing cover. I will mount it to the engine plate and hopefully keep everything simple. I have fought oiling issues on my last two builds and do not want to take any chances with this one.

Heads are also assembled now, but the question remains, should we run this cam with springs that the heads came with which are #230 closed pressure when the cam only requires about #150 closed...I am thinking it might be worth switching...What say you guys?

Posted By: quickd100

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 03/08/15 02:53 AM

With a roller cam I'd err on the high side of spring pressure. Not enough and you accidently over rev it bad thing start to happen. I run 740# over the nose and never run the motor past 6300rpm. Dave

Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 03/08/15 02:59 AM

Quote:

Also, I have decided to plumb an accumulator off the right front lower oil port just to the right of the timing cover. I will mount it to the engine plate and hopefully keep everything simple. I have fought oiling issues on my last two builds and do not want to take any chances with this one.

any reason not to user 4 port oil filter base?

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 03/08/15 04:50 PM

Quote:

With a roller cam I'd err on the high side of spring pressure. Not enough and you accidently over rev it bad thing start to happen. I run 740# over the nose and never run the motor past 6300rpm. Dave

Its not a roller cam actually....Seen too many failures lately due to the lifters coming apart.

Quote:

Quote:

Also, I have decided to plumb an accumulator off the right front lower oil port just to the right of the timing cover. I will mount it to the engine plate and hopefully keep everything simple. I have fought oiling issues on my last two builds and do not want to take any chances with this one.

any reason not to user 4 port oil filter base?

Not sure anyone posted a picture of one, but I confirmed with BG the port just to the right of the timing cover will work. I would like to keep my spin on filter housing if I can. The port is very close to where I need to mount the accumulator, so I think that will work well.

Posted By: 572charger

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 03/29/15 12:07 PM

how is the build comming randy !!!any updates

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 03/29/15 01:44 PM

My engine builder is on vacation, but yes the build is almost complete. Cam is in, pistons are in, everything is degree'd in...New inner heads studs showed up along with Cometec gaskets. Three builds, three different length inner heads studs. And the lash caps showed up.

Lastly, the new carburetor showed up, and I picked up a used large plenum intake...We were deciding on an oil pan and I think I have that picked out, so the old one is for sale. And we did run into a small snag on the push rods.

We measured up for new push rods and I was going to order a set, the we noticed our checker is not fully seated in the lifters. The lifters I have require 5/16" tips, so I need to borrow a checker with a 5/16" tip to get the lengths. Friend of mine offered, I just need to go pick it up.

So I need push rods, an oil pan, accumulator, and a hood, and we should be off to a dyno...hopefully.

The carb I got I went with Holley due to my previous experiences with Pro Systems. Both my previous carbs from him were way out to lunch...Well, I got a Holley 1250 G3 and it was wet flowed, and I took it apart because none of the jetting was documented anywhere....

First thing I figure out, they switched the intermediate air bleeds with the idle air bleeds, and me never having a 3-circuit before, figured that out....Next, it has a power valve in the front, and I do not run those in any of my carbs...and what they have the intermediate circuit jetted is way off the range I was told to run, so I need to order some jets and bleeds. Luckily there a few people out there with this combo and I have a baseline to start with...I miss EFI!

Posted By: 572charger

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 03/30/15 11:56 AM

great !! keep us posted !!!!

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 03/30/15 12:39 PM

Quote:

Well...More progress. The block is assembled with all the pistons, rods, rings, and the crank and cam. Getting ready to degree it in this week....

So the first question is, where do we install it? We are thinking putting it in just as the cam card states, but I want to hear some opinions. Also note, I am using Indy rockers and they have a higher ratio than OEM at 1.60 & 1.55 compared to 1.55 & 1.52 if I remember right...

Block progress was good until we got to the lifter bores last week. We had the crank in and one rod and piston when we found all the lifter bores undersized and especially tight at the bottom. Ron re-bored some and then re-honed all of them to size...Indy's catalogue says they are finish bored, but we found otherwise. Can't wait to pay that bill....

Also, I have decided to plumb an accumulator off the right front lower oil port just to the right of the timing cover. I will mount it to the engine plate and hopefully keep everything simple. I have fought oiling issues on my last two builds and do not want to take any chances with this one.

Heads are also assembled now, but the question remains, should we run this cam with springs that the heads came with which are #230 closed pressure when the cam only requires about #150 closed...I am thinking it might be worth switching...What say you guys?

On where to put the cam, with a motor that big, I would think later is better than earlier, but only a dyno knows for sure!
On the valve springs, I would error on the strong side, unless I found an engine builder willing to offer his experience with your valvetrain and lobe design. It is a bummer to not know which way to go, but a bigger one to have hurt valve train parts due to weak springs for the app. How many miles do you expect to drive this per year? If it is very limited, it becomes a no brainer. I am assuming this is a roller cam?

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 03/30/15 12:51 PM

No actually its not a roller cam....as stated previously too many of my friends have had issues with the rollers lately and they have their engines wiped out. We went with a solid mechanical and tool steel lifters...Basically, we went with what Barton uses on 90% of these as far as cam and lifters.

And yes, we will leave the seat pressure the way it is on the valves for now. #230 closed instead of #160...

And as for getting this in the car, it seems I am nearly out of time as the season opens in three weeks and first points race is May 2nd, and we have so much to do yet. I was hoping to have this in the car, but hernia surgery and cost to build, just kinda beat me up this last bit of winter...

I will keep at it, as we do want to put this in the drag car, its just not going to make it in right away. I guess that's what you get when you start an engine build at the end of January.

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 03/30/15 02:03 PM

That sounds like a lot of spring for a flat tappet. Is the cam or lifters specially hardened? Not criticizing hear, just haven't heard of that much spring on flat tappets.

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 03/30/15 05:44 PM

had to believe Barton uses flat tappets on race builds. I personally would never use one

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 03/30/15 05:55 PM

Quote:

That sounds like a lot of spring for a flat tappet. Is the cam or lifters specially hardened? Not criticizing hear, just haven't heard of that much spring on flat tappets.

Yes they are hardened...I am told, they really don't need a break in , and I can go cam to cam with them....Apparently, they have logged many thousands of street and strip miles on these with very good results and little to no failure in a lot of big inch Hemis...Give him a call if you don't believe me. I have a friend that lost his 493 at the end of the season due to a roller lifter failure...I am not going there. My buddy is running it in his 572 hemi, so it can't be that bad.

New carb showed up....And I picked up the new intake...Its big!

Posted By: DusterDave

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 03/30/15 08:36 PM

Looks great, Randy! Best of luck with your new bullet!
FWIW, I ran the Comp Cams 829 roller lifters in my 528. Logged thousands of street miles with no issues. Cam lobe design has a lot to do with it.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 03/30/15 09:58 PM

Quote:

Looks great, Randy! Best of luck with your new bullet!
FWIW, I ran the Comp Cams 829 roller lifters in my 528. Logged thousands of street miles with no issues. Cam lobe design has a lot to do with it.

I have also run those with no issues, but one of my racing buddies sends his lifters back to Comp for rebuilding, and the last two seasons 3-4 come back brand new as not repairable. He said they used to all get rebuilt with no issues, but not the last couple of seasons...I know of others that had issues as well. I can always go roller with these heads later. I actually still have that crazy .750 lift efi cam I could always put in this thing...

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 03/30/15 11:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

That sounds like a lot of spring for a flat tappet. Is the cam or lifters specially hardened? Not criticizing hear, just haven't heard of that much spring on flat tappets.

Yes they are hardened...I am told, they really don't need a break in , and I can go cam to cam with them....Apparently, they have logged many thousands of street and strip miles on these with very good results and little to no failure in a lot of big inch Hemis...Give him a call if you don't believe me. I have a friend that lost his 493 at the end of the season due to a roller lifter failure...I am not going there. My buddy is running it in his 572 hemi, so it can't be that bad.

New carb showed up....And I picked up the new intake...Its big!

Good info.
Being able to run springs like that, rpms ought to be no problem, course, your gonna have enough torque to through the earth orbit off a bit

Posted By: sunroofgtx

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 03/31/15 10:27 PM

Randy, looking killer. Jealous for sure. What valve covers and distributor?

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 04/01/15 01:43 AM

Quote:

Randy, looking killer. Jealous for sure. What valve covers and distributor?

My Indy valve covers just cam back from polishing...They are snazzy again....

And I run your adjustable distributor...I like they fact I can dial in the initial and leave the advance where it is....

My $100 worth of jets showed up today...I have three divided containers full of air bleeds and jets now for holley type carbs...It always seems I never have the right ones...

I re-jetted the 1250 and its hopefully ready and close....

Only things left are the push rods, and maybe a new oil pan and an accumulator system. I am thinking more and more I am out of time and money to put this in the Duster....

Posted By: 572charger

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 04/16/15 12:36 PM

any more updates ?? just orderd my hemi block from bob george !!!!!!

Posted By: rumblefish72

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 04/17/15 01:40 AM

Ok 572charger - you need to start a new build thread so we can see what's coming to the streets of Pittsburgh.

Posted By: 572charger

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 04/17/15 11:53 AM

i think randy is doing a great job on his build ! i would if i could figure out how to post pics on here!!!! LOL

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 04/17/15 12:53 PM

Originally Posted By 572charger

i think randy is doing a great job on his build ! i would if i could figure out how to post pics on here!!!! LOL

very simple now.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...tml#Post1799584

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 04/17/15 02:04 PM

Originally Posted By 572charger

any more updates ?? just orderd my hemi block from bob george !!!!!!

Engine builder was on vacation, and I had to wait till he got back to check for pushrod lengths....So those are now ordered as well as I think everything else I needed....Almost ready for the dyno.

Latest pic

Posted By: rowin4

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 04/17/15 06:57 PM

Originally Posted By HEMIFRED

[quote] Also, I have decided to plumb an accumulator off the right front lower oil port just to the right of the timing cover. I will mount it to the engine plate and hopefully keep everything simple. I have fought oiling issues on my last two builds and do not want to take any chances with this one.

I might be wrong but I though that oil port was a suction port for use if you used a external oil pick up from the pan. Might want to check on that.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 04/24/15 04:22 AM

Two more set backs this week.....My Milodon oil pan is back ordered, and I need to change valve springs.

I talked with Barton today about the cam break in with the tool steel lifters and the valve springs the heads came with and we have too much pressure at 230lbs closed. So it looks like I need to swap them out to a set of Comp springs to get to 150lbs or a little less.

The good news is the push rods showed up from BGR and they fit perfect and we checked piston clearances and everything else is a go!

Posted By: LAD 524

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 04/24/15 04:39 AM

Great stuff Drag - keep em coming

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 04/25/15 11:28 PM

Was lucky, we had a set of milder springs down at the shop....Right around 145lbs closed, and we pulled the big springs off and swapped the milder ones on....So now we should have everything matched up properly.

Heads and chambers and valves were all checked for clearances to the pistons, and we are a go for final assembly. Very happy we did that as a big thanks goes out to Ron yet again.

So we are getting close to getting it on the dyno now....First points race is next week, so we can't go that weekend, but soon hopefully.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 05/15/16 01:35 AM

*************************************************************
So 2016 is here**********************************************

Ok....So I built that motor last year, and I wiped out a cam lobe at the end of the season. It was a solid mechical cam from Bullet and RBRE Tool Steel lifters.....Lesson we learned, remove the inner springs when doing cam break in. Low oil pressure at an idle probably wasn't helping.

So this gave me the opportunity to work on it this winter. Some internal upgrades were a re-line honing the mains. We had low oil pressure at idle after it was warm, and we found some excessive clearances. We had the caps dusted, and set clearances at .002-.0025"....Now we got oil pressure!

Next was the cam, I priced a mild cam similar to what I had, but in a roller....It would have been another $450...So I had an old cam holding a door closed laying around we looked up the numbers on. After a lot of discussions and back and forth, I decided to put the old cam in. It was notorious for eating push rods, but it was free, and was in the performance range I wanted. So in it went.

Now it says .738 lift, but recalculate that for the Indy roller rockers, and we are at .752 lift!

Attached picture CamCard2.jpg

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 05/15/16 01:50 AM

From the cam delema, we went on with what to do about the block feeding high pressure oil to the accumulator. Needless to say we called a few folks, but were never able to make the accumulator work with the port we were using on the block. We gave up and blocked off the port, and I pulled the accumulator out of the car....Subtract another 20lbs.

Next up, was sealing every nook and cranny on the engine. Spent at least an hour with a tube of RTV making sure all the leak points were sealed.

Next, I am not sure I covered the oil pan delema. I had a Milidon on order, it never showed up. I ended up gutting my pan to clear the stroke. Scrapper and windage tray were cut out. I tweaked it some more this winter and added a scraper that we sandwiched in there instead of the welded one that was in there for a 4.15 stroke. We also found the swinging pickup sticking and fixed that as well.

Attached picture DSC00653_zps2vfynjcn.jpg

Attached picture DSC00653_zps2vfynjcn.jpg

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 05/15/16 02:00 AM

So we did get the motor all back in the car about two weeks ago, and the fuel system promptly ate both needle and seats in my 1250 carb after we had it running. Looks like some of the E10 guncked up the regulator and it really hit the carb with some fuel pressure. System had to be fully flushed out. Hopefully its all ok now.

Next delema was the new hood...I wanted a shaker for the last year or so back on the car, and finally pulled the trigger on one...Man my hinges are just all out of shape and just fought me tooth and nail. needless to say, its on the car now, and I like it. I had to remove about .375 off the intake to give me a little more clearance, but I got it all under there....Now off to paint.

Attached picture KIMG0095a.jpg

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 05/16/16 03:15 PM

Is the Shaker relatively "stock" height? How much room b/t the carb and the scoop? Looks REAL close!
Who made the hood for you?

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 05/16/16 11:44 PM

Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda

Is the Shaker relatively "stock" height? How much room b/t the carb and the scoop? Looks REAL close!
Who made the hood for you?

I wanted a taller than stock shaker, and they said this would be an inch taller, I do not have a stock one so I don't know if it is actually taller or not.

I will tell you, it was real close, and barely fit. I did not want to cut the intake down, but I wanted the hood on there more and it needed a little more clearance. Getting an air cleaner to fit looks to be a real problem.

I do want to seal it to the hood for racing eventually, not that I will need the extra hp due to lack of a full cage, but I can't help myself anymore. I don't fight the urge like I used to.

More pics soon I hope.

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 05/17/16 02:25 PM

It does look like it's gonna be a compromise w/ carb clearance, but yes...it looks good! I think you're gonna have to cut a lot of the manifold to fit an air cleaner.
Something like the pic below of Harry Schillings' cuda is what I had in mind. It's raised up around the scoop to give extra clearance. I'd love to know who made this hood for him.

Attached picture shaker.jpg

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 05/18/16 03:42 AM

Harry is a good friend of mine and we talked for about an hour on how he built his...I think the call to Canada cost me about $.4/min, so that was expensive. Maybe I will attempt one like his later. For now, this will work.

I took it on its maiden voyage to the local gas station....The cam seems mild in this motor which has really suprised me. Idles at 1000rpm and seems happy cruising along at 2800rpm....Stranded me at the gas station though....Looks like my nearly new Red top battery is toast. It would not re-start the car when I shut it off. I will take it in and have it tested tomorrow. Maybe switch to a Yellow top.

But the car drives nice and smooth and AFR was pretty good. Got to check timing again, do a valve lash hot and I need parts.

So on the list:

New battery
New rear tires
Paint hood
Adjustable tubular upper a-arms
Probably drivers 5 way belt

Posted By: rowin4

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 05/18/16 05:03 AM

Originally Posted By Dragula

I guess you found out you can't build pressure from a suction port. I would plumb in the accumulator off another port. Do you have a remote oil filter?

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 05/18/16 03:37 PM

Is that motor in the car on a motor plate ?

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 05/18/16 07:05 PM

Did Harry modify that hood himself? If not, do you know who made it for him?

Posted By: OUTLAWSSAA

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 05/19/16 02:01 AM

Harry has a body shop guy that is a friend of his,who built it for him. He originally had a Sox & Martin 6pk type scoop that they ran in the early beginnings of pro stock. The scoop is pretty slick. We both have pretty much the same motor, and he's always had 2mph over me,because his scoop cuts through the air and mine is parachute.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 05/19/16 03:04 AM

Originally Posted By rowin4

I guess you found out you can't build pressure from a suction port. I would plumb in the accumulator off another port. Do you have a remote oil filter?

Originally Posted By JohnRR

Is that motor in the car on a motor plate ?

Yes its a full plate.

Attached picture DSC02345_zpsuhpkpifs.jpg

Posted By: LAD 524

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 05/19/16 04:36 AM

Nice work Dragula....really interested to see how you go with the RB flat tappet.

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 05/19/16 02:18 PM

Originally Posted By OUTLAWSSAA

Thanks for the info! I'm surprised his is that much faster than yours. Both of you have nice and fast cars!

Posted By: OUTLAWSSAA

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 05/20/16 03:50 AM

We'll, you know how that goes. He built the motor and does the freshening up on it. But your never going to get 100% of those speed secrets. LOL

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 05/20/16 02:47 PM

Originally Posted By Dragula

[quote=rowin4]

I guess you found out you can't build pressure from a suction port. I would plumb in the accumulator off another port. Do you have a remote oil filter?

I was told, it was a pressure supply port, but we could not get pressure from it, so the assumption its a suction port could be inferred, I guess. I have no other current way to get an AN10 line to attach to the block right now, so the accumulator is on the shelf for now.

Does the Indy block have oil pressure ports on the rear like a stock block, that would be the place to plumb ... unless the ports are supplying oil to the heads ?

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 05/21/16 03:24 AM

Originally Posted By JohnRR

Originally Posted By Dragula

[quote=rowin4]

I guess you found out you can't build pressure from a suction port. I would plumb in the accumulator off another port. Do you have a remote oil filter?

Yes it does, but they are small....Nothing I would use for an AN10 line.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 06/27/16 04:59 AM

So just an update.......At the first track outing, the car did remarkably well. Went a best of 6.32 at 108mph and the only thing I worked on was the rear suspension.

So thru the mufflers, on DOT approved 31x15 Hoosier QTP's and mono leafs with Rancho rear shocks, it went 6.32 at 108....Had a bunch of 6.40's and the tuning on the rear shocks finally netted some improvements in the launch for a bunch of runs in the 6.3's with a best 60ft of 1.38....

Still had the cowl hood on it....Vid of 6.36 run against my buddy's race car...I won!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVTE82X6ZQ8

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 06/27/16 08:34 AM

Love the white headliner

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 06/30/16 03:16 AM

I like keeping this thread alive so all my 605 Hemi related stuff is in one spot....So here is the finished hood, and the new side window stickers the car proudly displays....The 1250 is coming around with some tinkering and is actually a very drivable car considering the cam and lift and that big 1250 Holley setup by Thumper Carbs...

I am still trying to dial in the hood alignment. Its not the best I can get it yet, but the fenders and such were not mounted at the same time as the new hood, they were aligned to the old hood....PITA...Not to mention I pulled the diaper off after its test outing, and I burnt right thru it on one side.

Attached picture KIMG0078_rsk.jpg

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 06/30/16 04:46 PM

Lookin good man and the scoop change will change the tune as you noticed but should come around........

Posted By: gsmopar

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 07/01/16 05:50 PM

Love it!!!

Posted By: W.I.N. Racing

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 07/02/16 04:31 AM

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 08/21/16 04:14 PM

Well....A little progress on the engine block this weekend. For those that don't know, I had a rod failure at the Nostalgia weekend here a couple weeks ago. It was not pretty, but it is what it is at this point. The diaper probably saved the car as almost nothing hit the track...

So I hired the best aluminum welder I know of, and we got started this weekend on it....

Posted By: unknown

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 08/21/16 04:50 PM

Looking good, much easier to fix then cast iron.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 08/21/16 05:07 PM

Originally Posted By Semi-Hemi

Looking good, much easier to fix then cast iron.

Agree'd, but not what I had in mind for my Hemi this year that is for sure.

Posted By: sgcuda

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 08/21/16 05:40 PM

It has to make you feel good that it is repairable. I'm guessing you'll forget all about it when you fire that puppy up again.

Posted By: SCATPACK 1

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 08/21/16 06:09 PM

Question?
Do you ned to put the main caps in and torque them down before you weld the block pieces back in so it limits the distortion from the welding?
Asking as I am looking at a used block that needs similar repairs.
Good luck with it.
Jerry

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 08/21/16 06:22 PM

Originally Posted By SCATPACK 1

No, but we will be checking for it when its done. We have to heat it to around 200* so we can weld it. We have an oven in the shop that we normally cook CI blocks in to get all the junk off of before shot blasting them. So we are going to put it on super low temp and bring it up to welding temperature......Should be done next weekend if all goes well.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 08/21/16 06:30 PM

Good to see you`ll be back in action again.............

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 08/21/16 06:40 PM

I'm so glad that your block ended up being repairable. That had to be a sick feeling in your gut.

Posted By: LAD 524

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 08/22/16 03:19 AM

Looking good Drag - shot us pics of the finished repair. Kudos for getting onto it so quickly !

Posted By: slantzilla

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 08/22/16 05:47 AM

Glad to see it going back together.

Posted By: Bill MeLater

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 08/23/16 09:57 PM

Was it a rod or bolt failure? What rods/bolts were you running?

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 08/24/16 03:23 AM

Originally Posted By slantzilla

Glad to see it going back together.

I agree, and good luck with the rebuild.

Mark

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun.......Parts Arrived! - 09/05/16 04:39 PM

Well....Here's the block repair...Went very well. Wish it would not have let go, as this may get expensive depending on how the crank goes...Have to send that one out before we know which route that is going to go. After we figure out what we are going to do with the crank, then we order the rest of the parts, and then think about the oil pan...

Welded inside and out...Hired the Right guy!

Posted By: scottb

Re: The Quest Has Begun.......Parts Arrived! - 09/05/16 05:13 PM

At least the block came out looking very nice usable for sure that saves a few bucks good luck with the rest of the parts needed

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun.......Parts Arrived! - 09/05/16 07:28 PM

Appreciate it...I am lucky, but still a little depressed about it. I have a mountain of parts sitting here in the garage that will eventually be put back together...

Posted By: rt66jim

Re: The Quest Has Begun.......Parts Arrived! - 09/05/16 11:06 PM

As stated by others glad you were able to repair it. And a very nice job on those repairs. Jim

Posted By: DusterDave

Re: The Quest Has Begun.......Parts Arrived! - 09/06/16 05:46 AM

Randy, kudos to the guy who did the block repairs. Look at it this way....those battle scars give the block some character!

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun.......Parts Arrived! - 09/07/16 12:41 AM

Originally Posted By DusterDave

Randy, kudos to the guy who did the block repairs. Look at it this way....those battle scars give the block some character!

Thanks former Hemi guy...It certainly gives me a story to tell....The block is actually stronger than it was, maybe not prettier. There is more in it for power. We were working our way into the tune up and I think we really had the carb good, and I know the car had a mid 6.20 somthing in it....6.311 was the best pass that day.

So its met my expectations as far as ET goes for a mild street car. I want to do Drag Week one of these years...Maybe not super fast for a 605, but it looks like the high gear in the trans was toast and answers why the MPH was down some...Guess we need to work on reliability.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 09/24/16 09:00 PM

Well, its been a little slow going, but the block as shown above is fixed and needs only some good clearance checking and cleaning and it should be ready to go, and this week, the crank came back all fixed....Thank goodness. That would have been expensive to replace.

So now if AJ Casini will just return my call, I can get an idea on the replacement parts I know I need.

And where do I get one of those oil filter plates that will sandwich in there and allow me to go to a accumulator?

Posted By: mopar_mark

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 09/25/16 10:09 PM

Nice to see your block repaired & your back on track to getting it re built.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/23/16 04:56 PM

Well things have been slow, but still made the last race of the season last week in my engine builders Hemi Barracuda running 10.20's at 132mph...Car is a handful and we never really hooked it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrm62S2Fmow

Meanwhile, we are building the trans...Got a pile of parts in from A&A and they are really nice looking. We figured we would build the trans first and then get into the engine re-build. Only hurt high gear, but we decided to go with everything A&A said we should have at this level as this trans had a few years on it.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/30/16 06:51 PM

Things are moving now.....Trans is all done.....And Ordering all the engine parts this week...Even though my job is toast soon.

Posted By: WO23Coronet

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/30/16 07:04 PM

Glad it's coming along, what's up with your job if you don't mind me asking?

Posted By: Clanton

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/30/16 07:33 PM

Originally Posted By Dragula

Things are moving now.....Trans is all done.....And Ordering all the engine parts this week...Even though my job is toast soon.

I used the short dipstick fitting in my trans[GM TH350]Looks like you did also.I hope your trans hold up,I had trouble burning clutches,bands.My trans is fresh now hoping for better results next yr.Good luck with the job!

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/30/16 08:30 PM

Originally Posted By WO23Coronet

Glad it's coming along, what's up with your job if you don't mind me asking?

Actually, I don't mind....I work for Greatbatch Medical doing swiss CNC machining. The comapny bought Lake Region Medical and assumed the name Integer....Well, they have decided they do not need the 400 different machined medical parts we provide, made here in NY anymore and are moving it all minus the people...I do not want to start a political debate, but you can basically guess where. They gave us 12 months give or take...

[/quote]
I used the short dipstick fitting in my trans[GM TH350]Looks like you did also.I hope your trans hold up,I had trouble burning clutches,bands.My trans is fresh now hoping for better results next yr.Good luck with the job! [/quote]

I only burnt the high gear clutches and there are some tricks we did to the trans to improve flow, holding power and pressure. One set of clutches are grooved, and the other set are not. I do not recall which set is or isn't...We also bought there billet drum and thinner clutches and it holds more of them. Lots of goodies in it. Should easily survive 1000hp at my weight.

For the dipstick, I do not really like these, but there seems to be limited choices.

Posted By: Clanton

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/30/16 11:01 PM

Can I ask what trans fluid you use?

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/30/16 11:48 PM

Originally Posted By Clanton

Can I ask what trans fluid you use?

Nothing fancy here, just Napa Type F...It was over a quart low due to a leak it had when high gear started slipping. Put about a dozen passes on it before it really slipped. Had a heck of a leak, which we have found and fixed...New pan adds another two quarts over the deep steel pan.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 11/20/16 08:32 PM

Originally Posted By Dragula

Originally Posted By Clanton

Can I ask what trans fluid you use?

Well I might have spoke too soon on that. I used to run ATF in all my race stuff. But according to A&A, I should be running ATF +4 for OD trans now that I am running their clutch pack....So we will be switching this year.

Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 11/20/16 11:22 PM

Been quite an adventure lad

Posted By: GY3

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 11/21/16 02:39 AM

Good to see it going back together! That car has always been one of my favorites on Moparts!

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 11/21/16 03:07 AM

Originally Posted By GY3

Good to see it going back together! That car has always been one of my favorites on Moparts!

Thanks....Won't be long now....Most of the parts are ordered.

Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 11/22/16 04:15 PM

What do you tip the scales at??

Posted By: Airwoofer

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Parts Arrived! - 11/22/16 04:34 PM

Originally Posted By Dragula

Originally Posted By JohnRR

Originally Posted By Dragula

[quote=rowin4]

I guess you found out you can't build pressure from a suction port. I would plumb in the accumulator off another port. Do you have a remote oil filter?

Yes it does, but they are small....Nothing I would use for an AN10 line.

There are no ports on the pressure side of the pump that are AN-10, only aftermarket suction side lines are that size. With an Indy block you can run the internal pickup (3/8 or 1/2 " dia), or put on the blockoff plate and input with an external line to the port on front of the block that you tried to use, running an external line from the pan. Some guys use a plate between the pump and the block for the input like I have (Milodon 21001) on my 500, or a plate on the other side of the pump (Milodon 21205) to feed from that side. Or use both and feed the pump from both sides, but that can make the pump stack too big and it can interfere with the K frame.

You want the accumulator to be plumbed to the pressure side of the pump which can also be through one of the oil passages in the block. That line does not need to be AN-10. Heck, look at the threads that the oil filter screws onto - that is the pump outlet and it is smaller. I have always thought it would be good to have a normally closed solenoid valve at the accumulator that is powered by the ignition, so whenever the ign is on the accumulator is connected to the oil passages. When you go to fire up the motor the pressure in the accumulator is released and pre-oils the motor, and if you get starvation at the pickup the accumulator supplies pressure. When you shut down the motor the pressure gets trapped in the accumulator for next time.

One way to tap into the pressure side of the pump may be to go through the pump cover, or use a remote filter cover (Milodon 21225) and tee into the filter lines.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 11/22/16 08:37 PM

Originally Posted By Dragula

[quote=Dragula][quote=Clanton]

Well I might have spoke too soon on that. I used to run ATF in all my race stuff. But according to A&A, I should be running ATF +4 for OD trans now that I am running their clutch pack....So we will be switching this year.

That's odd, I wonder why they recommend that? ATF +4 has added friction modifiers that allow the lock up clutch to SLIP on application to combat lock up converter shudder ...

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 11/23/16 01:46 AM

Originally Posted By JohnRR

Originally Posted By Dragula

That's odd, I wonder why they recommend that? ATF +4 has added friction modifiers that allow the lock up clutch to SLIP on application to combat lock up converter shudder ...

One of the clutch packs they sent me has no grooves in the clutches, so I am not sure, but that's one thing I know was different on this build than past builds. We also squeezed more clutches in the pack with their setup...So maybe they need a thinner film...

Posted By: Airwoofer

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 11/23/16 04:55 PM

Are you running one or two pickups from the pan? I assume that your oil pump cover has a pickup. I ask because I went out to the shop and looked at the 540 and the 500 and how I have them plumbed. The 500 has a 2 piece Indy maxx pump cover that will allow 2 pickups, but I am only using one. The 540 is using the front entrance like the one you tried to hook the accumulator to. I was using a plate under the pump (have to use a longer driveshaft) but the stack interfered with the K frame with the motor plate I had. Both of these seem to be working OK so far.

When I was building that 540 (mega block) I obtained a used Milodon 21000 2 piece pump cover that has the AN-10 inlet thinking I would use the bottom plate and the cover to feed the pump from both sides if I had feed issues. Both of those pieces are on the shelf now. That pump cover is about 1" think and it could be drilled/tapped for a fitting on the outside that would tap into the outlet side of the pump. Maybe even an AN-10 if you placed it in the right place to clear the bolts. Smaller would fit even better.

Looking at the pics of that block you do not appear to have many other options if you want a AN-10 line to the accumulator. PM me if you are interested in either of these pieces, priced right. I also have the pickup. Looks like this one but the cover is hard anodized.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Milodon/697/21000/10002/-1

Under pump feed plate is shown in this pic:

https://www.carid.com/milodon/swivel-connect-mpn-21150.html

Posted By: rowin4

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 11/23/16 06:34 PM

I run the Milodon pump plate for a remote filter. I plumbed the outlet #8 line to the filter and put a tee in the return line at the pump to plumb in the accumulator. It works perfect. I have a electric solenoid in the accumulator lower end of the line , [ no waiting for oil ] at the inlet of the pump that turns on with the ignition switch to prelube the engine. Upon engine start the accumulator refills and maintains the same pressure as the engine oil gauge. As for 5/8" line, don't see it would do much more than the #8 [1/2"] , all the oil lines inside the block are pretty small and the accumulator is only 1/2" , any valving makes flow smaller yet.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 11/23/16 09:53 PM

I will using one of these adapters this year. And my AN10 should all work where I mounted everything.

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/se...hItemId=1270978

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 11/23/16 10:21 PM

Originally Posted By JohnRR

Originally Posted By Dragula

That's odd, I wonder why they recommend that? ATF +4 has added friction modifiers that allow the lock up clutch to SLIP on application to combat lock up converter shudder ...

In spite of the friction modifiers, many trans guys claim Mopar ATF+4 is the best fluid made

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 01/07/17 03:52 AM

Well the short block is going together nicely this year....I have a billet rail oil pan in the works as well, and need just a few more parts yet. And, I landed a new job!

Attached picture KIMG3028.jpg

Posted By: slantzilla

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 01/07/17 05:13 AM

Congratulations on the new job!

Posted By: gsmopar

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 01/07/17 04:26 PM

Congrats on the job! Keep the build thread going please!!!

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 01/07/17 06:44 PM

Originally Posted By Dragula

Well the short block is going together nicely this year....I have a billet rail oil pan in the works as well, and need just a few more parts yet. And, I landed a new job!

Right on man on both counts, new income and outcome at the same time..........

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 01/07/17 07:44 PM

Whats up with that oil filter???

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 01/07/17 08:01 PM

It's a cooler mug Al..............lol

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 01/07/17 09:30 PM

Originally Posted By Al_Alguire

Whats up with that oil filter???

Its a K&P Engineering re-usable filter. I have a couple of them I bought from Ray Bartons shop. I like these a lot better than others I have used.

And sanwhiched between the Milidon pump & cover and the oil filter is an adapter to go to my Accumulator

One of the things we have learned about Hemi engines with aluminum blocks is oil control, or lack there of gets you in trouble quick.

What you can't see this year is we modified the block ports that feed the heads and put restrictors in those. We had much debate about the size to use and settled on .070" holes in them.

Also the Ohio Crank boys did an awesome job on the re-work of the 4.75 crank. bearing clearances are set at .0015-.0025...Bigger and you will have less oil pressure than optimal at idle. We had to re-hone the crank bore in the block because one journal was bigger and then tell the guys at Ohio Crank what our sizes were. Its spins like glass on wet ice in there....

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 01/09/17 04:12 PM

Looks nice, but that sounds awful tight on the bearing clearance.

Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 01/09/17 05:51 PM

Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda

Looks nice, but that sounds awful tight on the bearing clearance.

THIS!!!!

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 01/09/17 05:58 PM

I have .0024" on the rods w/ coated Clevite bearings and .0035" on the mains w/ regular Speed Pro 119M bearings. No problems w/ idle oil pressure. Only reason the rods are as tight as they are is due to the coating.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 01/09/17 08:06 PM

Originally Posted By Dragula

Also the Ohio Crank boys did an awesome job on the re-work of the 4.75 crank. bearing clearances are set at .0015-.0025...Bigger and you will have less oil pressure than optimal at idle. We had to re-hone the crank bore in the block because one journal was bigger and then tell the guys at Ohio Crank what our sizes were. Its spins like glass on wet ice in there....

I think those rod bearing clearances on aluminum rods might be okay, definitely to tight for me for steel rods with either stock Mopar or BB Chevy rod journal sizes, maybe okay for Honda 1.88 rod size

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 02/12/17 04:57 AM

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 05/07/17 08:06 PM

Well, I got it all in the car yesterday and running. Its all home now and sounds mean....Got it all put in and running in about 5 hours with a little help.

The new trans is working nice too...We went the next step with a lot of really good parts from A&A because the day the rod let go, the trans had 3rd gear end up in the pan and was on the verge of not moving at all. We now have one of their billet drums with a ton of clutches in it and a few other goodies. I was impressed by how smooth it is.

I also ended up using the Milodon steel pan because another manufacturer cannot read the dimensions on a cad print for a pan....So needless to say, I have a very expensive spare pan if anyone is interested......With the restrictors in the block, the oil pressure is super steady at 82psi cold...Can't wait to try a test drive. Hopefully we do not burn any push rods restricting the upper end. That was an issue previously with this cam.

The Thumper carb just fires right up too...

All told, I killed two rods, two pistons, two valve guides and associated valves, one oil pump, one oil pan, had to repair the block & crank....Oh and high gear in the trans....covered the headers in 20-50 and dinged one with the rod cap. Plus all the associated gaskets.....Not sure the total, but it wasn't cheap. We found some issues with the heads we addressed this time as well.

Based on the hassle I had in tech last week with my other car, and this car not having a full cage, I may not get a chance to race it this year. My other car is fully certed, and tech was really being a PITA, so who knows. I might sell this engine to build a G3 Hemi and keep this car in the 10's...

[img:left]

[/img]

Posted By: gsmopar

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 05/08/17 09:47 PM

Quote:

All told, I killed two rods, two pistons, two valve guides and associated valves, one oil pump, one oil pan, had to repair the block & crank....Oh and high gear in the trans....covered the headers in 20-50 and dinged one with the rod cap. Plus all the associated gaskets.....Not sure the total, but it wasn't cheap. We found some issues with the heads we addressed this time as well.

What was the root cause of the failure? I'll be firing up my Hemi soon (with a lot of the same parts). Just hoping to learn from your experience. Thanks!

Posted By: Sammy

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 05/08/17 10:55 PM

Picture of the messed up pan from Charlies. Like to see if my friend can use it for his new build.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 05/09/17 04:09 AM

Originally Posted By gsmopar

Quote:

What was the root cause of the failure? I'll be firing up my Hemi soon (with a lot of the same parts). Just hoping to learn from your experience. Thanks!

Well, two things, you can NEVER have a big enough oil pan with a Hemi, and we did not restrict the flow of oil to the heads. I now have restrictors in the block. Hopefully, we do not limit it too much and burn up push rods.

Burned #7 rod bearing on a pass and it all let go....

Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 05/09/17 04:18 AM

Can you show the inside of your oil pan,I'm looking at oil control in a deeper sump pan,just curious what the Milodon looks like

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 05/10/17 12:25 AM

Originally Posted By hemi-itis

Can you show the inside of your oil pan,I'm looking at oil control in a deeper sump pan,just curious what the Milodon looks like

A week earlier, I could have taken a picture of the inside of that Milodon pan....I run the same pan on my wedge in the Duster and it has been great. If I remember right, its got a scraper on one edge and a tray built in with a couple spots for oil to drain back. I do not recall if it has a trap door in it.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 06/05/17 12:23 AM

The good news is, I can take a picture of the inside of the oil pan now for you. The bad news is, the rebuild didn't make it 10 miles down the road before major issues occurred.

So I got the engine running a few weeks ago, and it was in the car about a week. Went to take its maiden voyage down to the corner gas station and back, just to feel it out and put a few miles on it, and half way there, oil pressure started dropping.

I just happened to look across at the gauges and finally saw full engine temp and then looked over at the oil pressure, and it was already down to 45psi from 82psi....WTH!

Pull over and call a friend for a tow, no one answers...Fire it up and drive home, and it was down to 10psi if I am lucky by the time I pulled it back in.

So to make a long story short, I pull the engine a few days later and get it down to the shop. Pulled it apart, and struggled to find anything wrong.

Seems the crank we just had repaired, went and sprung once it reached full temp. That's the best explanation we can find. It was out .003" and I know it was straight when we put it in. Called Ohio crank about it, and they said that can happen on repairs like that.

So now, I am out my summer car, as I do not yet have a spare engine built. And I am wondering what my next move is....

Called Bryant for a crank, and its 14 weeks to get one...Still waiting to hear back about a Callie's for lead time. Might just sell it and build another 400/512 or a G3...Pretty depressed about it. Two summers in a row and Mopar day is this Saturday...no cruise nights or car shows this year either...

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 06/05/17 12:52 AM

Sorry to hear that man and can't you street the Duster..........

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 06/05/17 04:19 AM

Originally Posted By Thumperdart

Sorry to hear that man and can't you street the Duster..........

I have thought about that....But got this nice looking Cuda sitting here with insurance and a fresh trans all ready to go, minus an engine...

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 06/05/17 04:31 AM

I know you must really love your engine builder but don't you honestly think it's time for a divorce. Man I would love to have the money you spent on builds over the last five years. I wish you nothing but success on your next project

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 06/05/17 04:42 AM

I honestly don't think its his fault. It kicked a rod last year, and I sent it out to repair instead of replacing it. Finding all this out is like one of those doctors commercials, in the fine print, a repaired crank can retain a lot of stress in it after the repair.

At this point, I have an entire engine minus a crank....or at least a straight crank. And getting a new 4.75 crank is a lot tougher than I thought. Seems the standard is a 4.5...So maybe change crank and pistons and go 572, dunno....I am depressed.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 06/05/17 05:16 AM

The stock forged 413 crank in my Dart was bent like .002-.003 and we rotated around 180 degrees, and Jason Pettis smacked it a few times w/a big ass chisel and hammer and all good 14+ years later...........Hard to point fingers without all of the details or whatever but I hope this stuffs behind you guys............

Posted By: sc4400

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 06/05/17 05:30 AM

I just got a 4.75 crank from Ohio 2 weeks ago. Are they out of stock?

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 06/05/17 05:31 AM

How about seeing about straightening it and heating it up to 250 to 300 F several times afterwards to see if it has taken a permanent set or not

All things steel are fixable with enough effort

Powder coating company heat their stuff up in large ovens to around those temperatures

Maybe have it heated up several times first and then straighten it

Posted By: RUNCHARGER

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 06/05/17 06:02 AM

Man, Hot Rods can be not worth it some days. Hope you can find a new crank for it. There has to be one somewhere.

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 06/05/17 06:44 AM

Call Crower on the crank...

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 06/05/17 11:41 AM

Originally Posted By sc4400

I just got a 4.75 crank from Ohio 2 weeks ago. Are they out of stock?

Yes they are out...And those are on the cheapish side. Not sure if I wanted to go that route.

Whatever the material Bryant uses is twice as strong as the 4340 cranks. I think he said 43M300...not sure, but 14 week lead time.

Originally Posted By Cab_Burge

How about seeing about straightening it and heating it up to 250 to 300 F several times afterwards to see if it has taken a permanent set or not

All things steel are fixable with enough effort

Powder coating company heat their stuff up in large ovens to around those temperatures

Maybe have it heated up several times first and then straighten it

This is what we might be up to.....It was a good crank, and its still is, but it has .003 in it now....

Originally Posted By Al_Alguire

Call Crower on the crank...

Had not thought about them. Looked up Weinberg last night, and 4.5" was it...

Posted By: DoubleD

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 06/05/17 04:11 PM

How did the bearing look ? - if none of the main bearings were showing wear - I would suspect it is something else causing the dramatic pressure drop.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 06/05/17 04:19 PM

Make a few calls to possibly Indy, Best Machine, Bob George Racing, and any other shops you can think of. Who knows what they have on stock and willing to part with

Posted By: 23T Hemmee

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 06/05/17 06:09 PM

Just in case you might be interested.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2316586.html#Post2316586

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 06/05/17 06:31 PM

Originally Posted By pittsburghracer

Make a few calls to possibly Indy, Best Machine, Bob George Racing, and any other shops you can think of. Who knows what they have on stock and willing to part with

I have been in touch with AJ at BGR...He got me the one quote for a Callie's...Just didn't let me know lead time.

Originally Posted By 23T Hemmee

Just in case you might be interested.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2316586.html#Post2316586

I will keep that one in mind.

Got a call, it was straightened again and all polished up. Not sure if the guy was happy about doing it or not....We will probably heat cycle it in the oven at the shop and make a judgement call on it.

We also have a run in stand we can fire it up on and just see what happens before it goes in the car this time.

Posted By: sgcuda

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 06/05/17 06:37 PM

I don't understand how the crank can be causing the pressure loss after being machined. When you say it's out .003", are you talking clearance or out of square? Can it not be ground .010" undersize on a straight cut?

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 06/05/17 06:45 PM

Originally Posted By Dragula

[quote=pittsburghracer]Make a few calls to possibly Indy, Best Machine, Bob George Racing, and any other shops you can think of. Who knows what they have on stock and willing to part with

I have been in touch with AJ at BGR...He got me the one quote for a Callie's...Just didn't let me know lead time.

Originally Posted By 23T Hemmee

Just in case you might be interested.

http://bo

I will keep that one in mind.

Got a call, it was straightened again and all polished up. Not sure if the guy was happy about doing it or not....We will probably heat cycle it in the oven at the shop and make a judgement call on it.

We also have a run in stand we can fire it up on and just see what happens before it goes in the car this time.

Might be something to think about.

Lets try this again.

https://www.thebalance.com/cryogenic-hardening-2340006

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 06/05/17 06:46 PM

Certainly was a lot of metal in the pan. I do not know how exactly they measured it. I am assuming TIR was out near the repaired journal.

Really wasn't a lot wrong with it. Hell for all I know, I could have a stuck pressure relief spring and haven't found it yet. Bearings were showing issues.

Posted By: rowin4

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 06/06/17 12:02 AM

The .003 out made me think that the crank was warped. I don't know how just engine heat , even 200 degrees would warp a crank. I can see how welding could . Was the crank checked for straightness after the journal was welded up ? if not is the journal now out of whack to the rest of the crank ?

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 06/06/17 12:06 AM

Winberg will make whatever you want. Toured their facility past year. Not sure on lead time.

FWIW I currently have a Crower, Moldex and Bryant in my junk.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 07/02/17 11:31 PM

Well, we straightened the crank again, and it now has only .0001" runout....new bearings are here, so we sent it all out for line hone, again...

Then, its ready for assembly....again.

And I see the photobucket again is doing somthing to my posted pictures..

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 07/03/17 07:02 AM

They want money from you, especially since they see you spending all that money on the hemi, LOL.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 07/03/17 04:53 PM

Originally Posted By Superfreak

They want money from you, especially since they see you spending all that money on the hemi, LOL.

Us Hemi guys have no money.....need a new photo hosting sight anyways. They sucked.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 07/07/17 08:46 PM

So they were checking it over for line hone, and we have one cap that is a little loose, and that is a little tight...This is the first we have checked that after welding it up...So they are line boring it as we speak and then we may check the balance on all the components just to make sure.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/15/17 07:21 PM

Talk about a thread ruined by photo bucket wanting a ton of money every year to host my pictures....I will never pay for someone to let me host my own pictures...Good luck.

So a little update:

We have the engine all back together. Its been back together for a while now. But on the bench, we are unable to get more than 4lbs of oil pressure.

AJ, I will bringing it to you in the next week or so. Hopefully its just a small galley plug we left out and can't find or somthing stupid.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/16/17 01:37 AM

keep us posted on the outcome please.

Thanks.

Posted By: DoubleD

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/16/17 05:29 PM

You definitely are not having any luck with that pachyderm! hopefully it is just a plug - definitely not the result you want when priming !

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/16/17 05:47 PM

I'm so glad you are finally getting a fresh set of eyes on your engine. I know he's your friend but man you have had some issues for the ET's you are going. Good luck and I too hope it's a simple issue

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/17/17 01:46 AM

Over the years, I have not had a lot of luck with aftermarket blocks it seems.

So even if I get it right, unless I fully cage the car, its more than I need. But it would be nice to have it running again.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 12/22/17 02:52 AM

So....Its back!!!

Attached picture KIMG0462[1].JPG

Posted By: DusterDave

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 12/22/17 03:27 AM

Looks good, Randy. What was the cause of the low oil pressure? Are you waiting until next spring to fire it up?

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 12/22/17 03:35 AM

A couple of badly used fittings, a leaky suction hose, and, for some reason, the brand new oil pump.

Going to try and put it in the car this weekend. Start it up when we get a real nice warm day...

Posted By: SCATPACK 1

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 12/22/17 05:06 AM

Originally Posted By Dragula

Originally Posted By Al_Alguire

Whats up with that oil filter???

Its a K&P Engineering re-usable filter. I have a couple of them I bought from Ray Bartons shop. I like these a lot better than others I have used.

And sanwhiched between the Milidon pump & cover and the oil filter is an adapter to go to my Accumulator

Just curious, was this filter on the engine when you had problems each time?
Or is it a new addition since the rebuild?
I have always been a believer in the more gimmicks, the more things can go wrong. Less is better for me.
Good luck and I can't wait for you to get it going again. I really enjoyed the U tube races you posted.

Posted By: gsmopar

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 12/22/17 05:42 AM

What an adventure! I hope it's right this time!!!

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 12/22/17 06:00 AM

Throw some salt over your right shoulder and find a few four leaf clovers. Did you use the same engine builder

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 12/22/17 12:42 PM

No...different engine builder. He says I post to much on the interweb, so I have to keep it short.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 12/22/17 12:46 PM

Originally Posted By SCATPACK 1

Originally Posted By Dragula

Originally Posted By Al_Alguire

Whats up with that oil filter???

Its a K&P Engineering re-usable filter. I have a couple of them I bought from Ray Bartons shop. I like these a lot better than others I have used.

And sanwhiched between the Milidon pump & cover and the oil filter is an adapter to go to my Accumulator

We like these, they catch any and all the debris....Its why the crank is still usable after the last go around, everything was in the filter. And we have gone back and forth, and I really like these. Otherwise I would have used half a dozen filters on this engine this year...

I run the same one on my race car for years now. If you have to pull it to inspect somthing, clean it and put it back on.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 12/22/17 06:17 PM

Glad you got that puppy back and hope your problems are behind you Randy...........

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 12/24/17 07:54 PM

I am optimistic, but just in case, I have a set of the new G3 Eddy heads ported by Ray, and currently at Titek for seats, valves, springs, and any finishing required...

As much as I really love our latest low deck wedge engine combo and scored another 400 block, this car requires a Hemi in it....

Attached picture KIMG0495.JPG

Posted By: A727Tflite

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 12/24/17 08:15 PM

Does the filter have a magnet inside too ?

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 12/24/17 08:52 PM

Yes..

Posted By: FastmOp

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 12/24/17 09:45 PM

Good luck Randy
Hope it runs a long time for you

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 12/27/17 04:15 PM

Originally Posted By FastmOp

Good luck Randy
Hope it runs a long time for you

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 12/27/17 05:15 PM

Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda

Originally Posted By FastmOp

Good luck Randy
Hope it runs a long time for you

X 3

Posted By: Hemi_Joel

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 12/27/17 06:44 PM

Good luck, Dragula. I hope all your Hemi troubles are behind you. It certainly has been a struggle, but you have hung in there. You deserve success now!

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 01/26/18 02:15 AM

Originally Posted By Hemi_Joel

Good luck, Dragula. I hope all your Hemi troubles are behind you. It certainly has been a struggle, but you have hung in there. You deserve success now!

I am excited....Its all in and ready to fire, just not warm enough...Supposed to warm up tomorrow and Saturday. So will will light the candles once again.

Posted By: 6PKRTSE

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 01/26/18 04:22 PM

Good luck. MY next build will be an upgrade from my 528" Hemi to a 605" also.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 01/27/18 03:59 AM

Originally Posted By 6PKRTSE

Good luck. MY next build will be an upgrade from my 528" Hemi to a 605" also.

The 4.75 crank is a lot tougher to get than the 4.5 cranks.....Next redo will be a 572+.030 if I ever have to rebuild again.

Also, the clearancing for the stroke seemed too much because I don't run aluminum rods...So if I had it to do over, I would rather do the stroke clearancing myself. I don't think the notches in the bottom of the cylinders needed nearly that much....

Posted By: rowin4

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 01/27/18 05:37 AM

When I bought my 572 rotating assembly there was the 605 listed, the 572 seemed more of a popular choice at that time. 33 more cubes should have been a no brainer. What the he11 was I thinking?

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/20/18 10:26 PM

Well, after a long delay, many discussions, lots of disappointments, I have found some hope in plan C.....

I am going to pick up a brand new block hopefully this Saturday.....Got the cash in hand, and the guy still has it. So a road trip it is.

So with that said, I pulled the running engine out this weekend to start the tear down and see what we can learn from it. Probably not much unless we go all out to pressure test every passage.

I went thru many different ideas and options this year in looking at my problem, and realized that the lack of parts for the old G2's is really not fun anymore unless its a show poodle.

I was willing to spend some money to end this issue once and for all. But in my searching, I realized it might be time to switch to somthing else. The lack of blocks and standardizing is killing the after market right now. At least in my eyes.

For those that didn't notice my add in the race section, I fired up the fresh 605 just after the new year, and again, oil pressure was an issue. After about 20min of idling, it was down to 10lbs...Same issue as before. I was really looking forward to enjoying this car a little this year, and time after time, its just a money pit...But I see some hope in the near future...

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/20/18 10:38 PM

What kind of block are you going to get? Hope you get it fixed soon, you've sure had it rough w/ this one.
A good block is really the only hard part to get right now...hopefully you'll get a good one then you can enjoy the dern thing.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/20/18 10:46 PM

Well, first I was willing to buy a complete running engine, and KB and Indy stuff does not interchange well if not at all. In fact, even some of the KB stuff doesn't interchange with KB stuff depending...This makes things very difficult for people like me...

Then I looked at maybe a billet water block...Same issue, long lead, custom built to order....Still looking at G3 options. I really like the Hellcat crate. And that is kinda my plan at the end of this season is to buy one of those if I can swing it after this mess...

Here is current plan C...

Attached picture 53135852-546-Hemi-Block-45-boreNEW.jpg

Attached picture 53135852-546-Hemi-Block-45-boreNEW.jpg

Posted By: blowndart

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/21/18 02:45 AM

What are you going to do with the Indy block? Sell it?

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/21/18 03:07 AM

Originally Posted By blowndart

What are you going to do with the Indy block? Sell it?

No idea yet....but probably. The rebuild will probably be for sale too....I think its time for me to move on after this....Unless for some reason I have way too much fun with it this year.

Been wanting a Hellcat crate and see how fast it can go in a 3200lb pro-street car....

Posted By: MattW

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/21/18 03:27 AM

Proper set up with Headers and tune I would say low 9's

Posted By: moparmitch

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/21/18 03:42 AM

I hope you figure things out with the hemi, but the Hellcrate motor is awesome too...

I just bought a low mile 6.1 motor for my 2800lb Duster and I can't wait to get it working. I'm thinking of using the Holley Dominator EFI system too...

A Hellcrate motor on E85 and decent boost would be awesome!

Anyway, just curious, I'm sure you looked at everything with the big hemi, but...

Does the Indy block have bushed lifter bores? Maybe leaking around the lifters?

Have you spun the oil pump with 1/2 inch drill or similar, with the intake off and peaked at the lifters from the top and bottom to look for massive oil escaping?

The same for each of the cam journals/bearings?

Somehow figure out how to get oil to the pump without the oil pan being on the motor and observe things from the bottom of the block while pressurizing the oil system.

I can't afford a real hemi, but admire and appreciate those who run them. I really hope you get it figured out and keep that motor in the car for years to come.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/21/18 12:02 PM

We did everything we could on my end to find the issue before putting it back in the car...Yet the issue persists.

As far as parts go, I am so tired of waiting +3-4 months on stuff, I think this lack of parts is pretty much tanking the hobby.

I look at the lack of younger racers, and wonder what the future holds. I see tracks all around folding up...And damit, I am the only idiot at my track still beating a Hemi....The writing has been on the wall for a while now. No blocks = no hobby....Hell, just try and order a G3 block...It won't be long, and we all be running LS based engines just to race...Sucks but that what it seems like.

How can I race in a Nostalgia class when I can't get valve guides, a block, other standard parts? As racers, many of us can't spend years collecting parts, we need them when we need them.

I have been debating calling it quits this year and just enjoy four wheeling. Just tired of it...

Posted By: blowndart

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/21/18 12:47 PM

Originally Posted By Dragula

We did everything we could on my end to find the issue before putting it back in the car...Yet the issue persists.

As far as parts go, I am so tired of waiting +3-4 months on stuff, I think this lack of parts is pretty much tanking the hobby.

How can I race in a Nostalgia class when I can't get valve guides, a block, other standard parts? As racers, many of us can't spend years collecting parts, we need them when we need them.

I have been debating calling it quits this year and just enjoy four wheeling. Just tired of it...

I know what you mean. I had to wait 10 months for my Hemi heads from Edelbrock and 6 months for an oil dipstick from Moroso. It's getting beyond ridiculous.

Posted By: Chuck@Best_Machine

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/21/18 03:10 PM

What size oil restrictor to you have for the rockers ? What dose it do when you prime it on the stand ? Does it have oil to the lifters and if so are they bushed ?

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/22/18 02:03 AM

Originally Posted By Chuck@Best_Machine

What size oil restrictor to you have for the rockers ? What dose it do when you prime it on the stand ? Does it have oil to the lifters and if so are they bushed ?

This restrictor thing we have been back and forth on....Told we need to run them, told we don't, had them in and out....We are not running them at the this time.

Prime it, gets 80psi on the stand...Lifters are just getting splash. No direct oil feed.....I think. Not bushed.

Posted By: Chuck@Best_Machine

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/22/18 03:03 AM

What Heads and rockers are you running?

Posted By: 6PKRTSE

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/22/18 07:26 PM

Man, if I didn't just finish my 528" Hemi. I would be interested in this engine & trying to figure out the oiling issue.

Attached picture rsz_20160507_120139.jpg

Attached picture rsz_20160507_120139.jpg

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/22/18 11:28 PM

Originally Posted By Chuck@Best_Machine

What Heads and rockers are you running?

Its all Indy...

Got it all stripped down...Ready to start looking fro the issue again.

Attached picture 0321181311.jpg

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/23/18 12:30 AM

I primed my 572 C.I. iron Hemi World block yesterday for the first time, it has 75+ lbs. on my old 1/2 Craftsman drill motor using Valvoline VR1 10x30 wt. oil

This block(World cast grey iron with the 4.490 rough bore size has the stock .039 restrictors in it to the Stage V non roller rocker arms to oil them full time and they are oiling okay also

Crane solid full body tall solid roller lifters on one of Tim Banning FHO custom ground Comp Cams solid roller lifter camshafts for EFI, I'm hoping for 800+ HP on this motor with dual 1150 CFM throttle bodies on Oregon 92 octane non ethanol pump swill

How hot was the oil and what RPM did you have 10 lbs. pressure at ?
My old 518 C.I. pump gas wedge motor would have under 20 lbs. at 170 F idling at 850 RPM

That was with 5W20WT oil, never had any oiling issues racing that motor shifting at 7000 + RPM

My oil temps. in the summer would get up to 200 F with coolant temps of 220 F

My message is if you have 10 lbs. pressure for each 1000 RPM your good, IE 10 Lbs. at 1000 RPM idling with hot oil and 20 Lbs. at 2000 RPM and so on

I cut the bypass spring on my oil pump to lower the pressure and ended up having only 65 Lbs. at or above 4500 RPM with 150 +F oil temps. I could have shim the bypass spring or replaced it with one a half a coil longer but I didn't really see the need for it

Posted By: mickm

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/23/18 03:15 AM

Originally Posted By Cab_Burge

I primed my 572 C.I. iron Hemi World block yesterday for the first time, it has 75+ lbs. on my old 1/2 Craftsman drill motor using Valvoline VR1 10x30 wt. oil

This block has the stock .039 restrictors in it to the Stage V non roller rocker arms to oil them full time and they are oiling okay also

How hot was the oil and what RPM did you have 10 lbs. pressure at ?
My old 518 C.I. pump gas wedge motor would have under 20 lbs. at 170 F idling at 850 RPM

That was with 5W20WT oil, never had any oiling issues racing that motor shifting at 7000 + RPM

My oil temps. in the summer would get up to 200 F with coolant temps of 220 F

My message is if you have 10 lbs. pressure for each 1000 RPM your good, IE 10 Lbs. at 1000 RPM idling with hot oil and 20 Lbs. at 2000 RPM and so on

Cab, what are the specs on that cam? Wondering if it is the same as mine...

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/23/18 07:54 PM

It has 254@.050 degrees on the intake with .380 lobe lift and 262@ .050 on the exhaust lobes with .383 lobe lift ground on 112 LSA installed at 110, lots of piston to valve clearances.
I bought the cam and kit as well as the Stage V heads, rocker arms and EFI intake from Tim

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/23/18 08:54 PM

Originally Posted By Cab_Burge

Baby cam..............

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/24/18 03:44 AM

Originally Posted By Thumperdart

Originally Posted By Cab_Burge

Baby cam..............

I agree

I'm building this motor for a local customer who wants a Hemi Challenger with power brakes and 4 link suspension, low riding and comfortable, air condition, power steering and so on for driving to the local car shows for him and his wife, he doesn't want a hoop of power

800+HP and more torque than HP will make me happy on the dyno

You know the drill Dom, keep them happy and make sure they get what you can deliver reliably

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/24/18 06:09 PM

Originally Posted By Cab_Burge

Originally Posted By Thumperdart

Originally Posted By Cab_Burge

Baby cam..............

I agree

800+HP and more torque than HP will make me happy on the dyno

You know the drill Dom, keep them happy and make sure they get what you can deliver reliably

Ya, I'm the "more cam, carb, compression and gear" guy.............lol

Posted By: Mopar_Rich

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/24/18 08:06 PM

CAB,
Is this the motor I'm tuning in April??
Rich
efiexpert.com

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/24/18 11:10 PM

Yes Sir

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 03/31/18 08:48 PM

Plan C.....Already coming around...Put a fresh hone on it, and it looks good. Going back to our Milodon pump, and currently browsing for a custom pan to give us some measure of safety.

Also, who had billet water blocks? I still did not find anyone who had one.

Attached picture KIMG0610.JPG

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 04/01/18 06:42 AM

Steve Morris makes one, Nelson racing also made one, and I think the other company was FXR or something like that.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 04/06/18 02:32 AM

Well, its done, and its going back in...

Attached picture KIMG0622.JPG

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 04/06/18 02:45 AM

Originally Posted By Superfreak

Steve Morris makes one, Nelson racing also made one, and I think the other company was FXR or something like that.

And yes, they made one...They were experiments, they do not sell them. I have called around, most places tell me to run a Chevy Hemi...And actually the Sonny's stuff is really awesome and expensive. The Goodwin is really awesome as well, and even more $$$. Who knows what the future holds, but its probably 6.1 based. I know this is probably my last G2...

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 04/06/18 05:20 AM

Good luck with it and hoping for the best. Let us know how it goes.

Posted By: sgcuda

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 04/06/18 12:56 PM

Looks good. Good luck!

Posted By: MattW

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 04/06/18 08:28 PM

Originally Posted By Dragula

Originally Posted By Superfreak

Steve Morris makes one, Nelson racing also made one, and I think the other company was FXR or something like that.

If your going to G3 stay away from the 6.1 blocks.
IMO there are better alternatives.
Good luck with this one I hope it works out for you.
Matt

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 04/06/18 10:52 PM

Originally Posted By Dragula

Well, its done, and its going back in...

I hope your bad luck and issues are behind you guys now so you can finally enjoy that beast..........

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 08/21/18 02:25 AM

Well, I have not updated this thread in a very long while, but we did fix the issue....It was not easy or fun, and we didn't want to believe it.

So this winter after many trials and tribulations and head scratching, we solved it like men....We gave up and bought a new block and swapped out the Indy block.

We had done everything else. There was nothing left to try, and we could not locate any issues in the block.

But with a new block under us, and I now have probably 300 street miles on it, and no issues at all, except extreme tire wear.

When we got the new block in the car, mind you, this was after we had the other one in and out more times than I can count, then we had another freaky issue that took me a while to find.

The car would run great for 10 min and then start dropping plugs till they all quit....Long story short, the newish coil died. I couldn't believe it. And it would always fire up and run for a bit and then get worse till it quit. The darnedest thing I ever saw.

Since then, we have been just driving the car to run some fuel threw it, and log some time on the carb....And man, I got to give Thumper a shout out, I think we got this thing dialing in now...We have been back and forth probably 1/wk all summer as I try different things, and went to cruise night tonight with all the latest changes, and man, its track ready and pretty close now. I am fussy, and when I am happy with a carb, its pretty damn good...AFR is reading awesome at almost all positions now.

So I am not racing it this year. I would cry if it let go again...maybe next year as my Duster is also running really well too. We already know the car has run 9.90 in street trim, so I will just make a few cruise nights and call it a season in a few weeks.

Attached picture DSC05296.JPG

Posted By: DUSTER_340

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 08/21/18 03:35 AM

Congrats, glad to hear some good is coming your way!

Posted By: gsmopar

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 08/21/18 04:19 AM

Is the new block Indy? Are you going to send the old block back to them?

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 08/21/18 11:48 AM

New block is not an Indy...And no, we are not sending it back.

I can tell you, the cylinder bores are a lot rounder on this block, and oil pressure is dead repeatable. I will not be buying another one of their blocks.

Posted By: sgcuda

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 08/21/18 01:01 PM

Too bad you never found the problem with the old block, but glad the new one is working for you.

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 08/21/18 02:36 PM

Glad it's finally running good for you! You sure have had one hell of a time w/ that engine. I sure would like to know what the deal was w/ that Indy block...no plans to check it out any further?

Posted By: 67mprfan

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 08/21/18 03:45 PM

Good luck with this build I was thinking about a Indy block but after reading this I'll pass

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 08/21/18 05:24 PM

Originally Posted By Dragula

Glad you guys finally get to enjoy your bad ass ride to it's fullest potential and glad the carbs giving you EFI accuracy with endless tuning capabilities............Now give em hell.........

Posted By: blowndart

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 08/21/18 06:16 PM

Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda

Glad it's finally running good for you! You sure have had one hell of a time w/ that engine. I sure would like to know what the deal was w/ that Indy block...no plans to check it out any further?

He sold the block to someone else.

Posted By: Craig J

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/13/18 03:13 PM

Any updates from the OP?

My block from Jegs is supposed to ship in a few weeks and I really want to hear some good feedback on the final engine. Reading this thread has me a bit concerned about my grand hemi plans....

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/13/18 03:48 PM

Its running great. With the help from Thumper on carb tuning the 1250, its really been great here at the end of summer. Went to a number of cruise nights and a big car show.

It was all loaded in the trailer to race at the Empire Frigid Nationals last week, and the weather really set in. So it does not look like I will get any passes on it this year. I did put about 600-700 miles on it though at the end of summer.

Only issues I have is the carb is very close to the scoop, and I can't fit an air cleaner or phenolic spacer, and on hot days, I do not like where the temp gauge climbs to. I called Meizeire and they said its time to move up to the 55gph pump. My cooling system is pretty decent, and it seems the cast iron block traps a lot more heat than my aluminum one did...My timing at idle and such is 22*, and 33-34 total and engine temp became an issue on 90* days with 4.10 gears going down the road.

I did get a bigger oil pan from Billet fabrication this year and replaced the 9 quart Milodon pan with a 12 quart Billet Fab pan. And I fixed a vibration I have had in the car since last year. Runs really nice down the road now....Scary fast!

Attached picture DSC05294-1.jpg

Posted By: fast68plymouth

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/13/18 03:56 PM

What iron block did you end up with?

Which K frame are you using that clears that pan?

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/13/18 04:06 PM

Its a World Iron block, found one brand new in the box over x-mass last winter. And the k-frame is a Magnum Force, you just need a notch in the front of the oil pan to clear it. Milidon makes a pan that clears it, and I have 2 of those, but I wanted more oil, so I went this route....the huge headers just go on and come super easy...

Attached picture DSC05315-1.jpg

Posted By: Craig J

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/13/18 04:29 PM

Roller cam?

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/13/18 04:41 PM

Yes...Here are the specs if you can read them...Just remember, I run Indy rockers, and the ratios are a tad higher...

Attached picture CamCard2_zpsscatqw0u.jpg

Attached picture CamCard2_zpsscatqw0u.jpg

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/13/18 07:07 PM

Originally Posted By Dragula

Its running great. With the help from Thumper on carb tuning the 1250, its really been great here at the end of summer. Went to a number of cruise nights and a big car show.

Runs really nice down the road now....Scary fast!

Don't we love scary fast

AKA, be safe

Posted By: quickd100

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/13/18 07:16 PM

What are the specs on the headers?

Posted By: jkgtx

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/14/18 02:41 PM

well interesting post as i was the one to purchase this repaired block not knowing it had a hot oil pressure problem,but all is good as it was used and what i was looking for,so after reading i went out and spent some time on the block,,plugged all mains oil passages ,blocked off head feeds,capped off all external places put in a used cam and pressure tested system,as dragula told me has good cam bearings well little soap and water shows i have a problem with rear cam bearing ,removed rear plug and put cam in back side has double the clearance as front bearing, is this the possible issue i would hope as i will rebearing cam and put together a 572 this winter after doing for checking into the block. i hope all works out and am happy to have a long awaited hemi block

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/14/18 03:02 PM

Goodluck with that block as there have been plenty of posts on that one about lots of issues. Someone was missing something

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/14/18 04:07 PM

Originally Posted By jkgtx

The cam bearing is interesting...

I had a number of shops look at it, and none of them found any issues with the block itself, but they did find issues with our oiling system. We suspected this is why we lost a rod in the first place and repaired said oiling issues. But, time and time again, it was checked and nothing in the block was found, yet we still lost pressure only when hot. After months of getting no where, I finally decided to go and just buy another block and see....We put all the same parts in that block, including our oiling system, and no issues other than my carb went a lot leaner with this one.

It sounds like you found more than we did. I paid a lot of money to different shops to look at it. Not to mention my time putting it in and taking it out of the car probably 10 times. I really wanted to believe we had a bad oiling system or somthing not related to the block, but if you found somthing, that's a good thing...We never found it.

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/14/18 04:21 PM

Glad Drag gets to enjoy the car finally, great news!

In various projects over the years I have found internal oil passage leak issues before by pressure testing the system without cam or crank getting in the way/messing up line of sight. Have to think outside the box a little to plug the main and cam oil holes without the main components installed, but it can be very helpful to not have those parts in the way. Just throwing the idea out there in case something along those lines is suspected.

If it is something that will only open up when hot, detective work will for sure be much more difficult. Hope someone can figure it out.

Posted By: sgcuda

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/14/18 04:51 PM

Originally Posted By jkgtx

I have seen production blocks have weird oiling problems with worn out cam bearings. Jeep 4.0 inline 6 cylinder engines are notorious for loosing oil pressure due to cam bearing wear. You might be on to something.

Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/14/18 04:52 PM

Like button

Posted By: jkgtx

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 10/14/18 05:17 PM

Randy i don't know when the cam bearings were replaced,as they don't look appearance wise to be bad but for sure the rear is excessive for clearance will check each one before i remove to see how they are,i will keep things posted if i find anymore

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 05/14/19 02:51 AM

Originally Posted by jkgtx

Bearings were in the block when I got it. Hopefully you got it.

As for an update, I haven't done a lot since last year, but it will get some track time this year. Spent the summer tuning the carb, and its a lot closer, but its still not EFI. When I get back to work, I am considering going to a 4500 Sniper for better cold starts and control..I also need to get an intake that gets me enough room to run an air cleaner. So I have the tallest Indy intake they make, but I will switching later this year because I can't fit my air cleaner, so I am open to suggestions. I would like to loose as little horsepower as possible. I have looked at the Eddy dual 4150 intake and the lower Indy 4500 as well as the Indy Arlene intake I am open to some feedback on who has tested what.

Either way I figured i would show off the recently painted valve covers. Super tired of the polished valve covers, so I painted them...

Attached picture DSC05681.JPG

Posted By: stickman60

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 05/14/19 08:46 AM

Those valve covers look awesome.

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 05/14/19 12:27 PM

I like the painted covers better...looks nice!

How much room do you need for an air cleaner? FWIW, I can't fit an air cleaner on mine now either w/ the Indy 426-4 manifold and a 5" cowl.
The Indy 426-3 will hurt power substantially.
The Barton is your next best single 4500, but it may not give you enough clearance. It's roughly 11/16" shorter when measured sitting flat on a table.
Barton is 7 and 9/16" tall, Indy 426-4 is 8.25". The Barton manifold is 10 lbs. heavier too.

If you decide to go w/ two carbs, I'd use the Stage V manifold.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 05/14/19 05:32 PM

I need 2" to 2.5" probably....Or a better fiberglass guy who can make this work as is....

Posted By: RustyM

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 05/14/19 07:54 PM

beautiful!

Where did you get the thermostat cover and and ridged radiator "hose"?

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 05/16/19 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by RustyM

beautiful!

Where did you get the thermostat cover and and ridged radiator "hose"?

Ok, so the thermostat housing is from Meziere....The chrome tubing, I have to confess, is from the local hardware store....Its a 20" undersink J-bend in 1.5".....lol.

I like it for two reasons. It flows good and looks good, but also dissipates heat pretty well....

Posted By: RustyM

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 05/17/19 08:40 PM

thank you as i'm having radiator plumbing issues with top hose on big block duster and- i just don't want ugly.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 05/17/19 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by RustyM

thank you as i'm having radiator plumbing issues with top hose on big block duster and- i just don't want ugly.

I can’t believe that guys will spend 1000’s or dollars on some items but still run 50 years old flex line technology for radiator lines. Step up to the 21 century and change over to AN lines and Fittings. Come on in, the waters great.

Posted By: moparx

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 05/18/19 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Dragula

Originally Posted by RustyM

beautiful!

Where did you get the thermostat cover and and ridged radiator "hose"?

would a black painted piece of tubing dissipate heat as well [or close to] as the chrome piece ? i'm not a "shiny" guy.

pittsburgh, an fittings are good, but see above.

Posted By: RustyM

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 05/19/19 09:37 PM

1'm having the dickens making the an fittings work for me due to traveling a short distance with two turns.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 05/21/19 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by RustyM

1'm having the dickens making the an fittings work for me due to traveling a short distance with two turns.

Yeah, you have to have some length between fittings......

Just had it out for a cruise today, and she is running really good. I made a couple minor carb changes, and it seemed to like it. Still a tad lean at cruise, but not bad....we will see when the hotter weather gets here.

Attached picture KIMG1172[1].JPG

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 05/21/19 04:55 PM

What AFR is a "tad lean"?
I like at or above 14.8 AFR at light part throttle cruise in high gear below 2200 RPM on 91 octane pump swill

Posted By: Dragula

Re: The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated! - 05/21/19 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Cab_Burge

What AFR is a "tad lean"?
I like at or above 14.8 AFR at light part throttle cruise in high gear below 2200 RPM on 91 octane pump swill

Right around 14.5-14.8.....somtimes it will go to 15.0 which I really don't like. Doesn't seem to bother it, but I do not want to burn anything up. Most of the time she is closer to 14.0....This is why I like efi...Set the AFR and forget about it...

The Quest Has Begun......605 Hemi Build, Updated!