Moparts
727 CO2 SHIFTER
Posted By: 440lebaron
727 CO2 SHIFTER - 02/09/15 10:35 PM
my turbo action cheetah shifter (co2)goes from 1st to 3rd every now and then, played with air pressure and no better. turbo action says that does happen, they recommend e-controller ($450) any other shifters any better??
gary
Posted By: Dartsport540
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 02/09/15 10:57 PM
My Hurst 1/4 stick with air operated shifting, would sometimes go from 1st right to 3rd. Took a while to find, but the blocker air solenoid was going bad. Replaced the blocker air solenoid, and mine worked good.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 02/09/15 11:53 PM
it think there is a different gate you can get that will stop that. maybe someone has a part number.
Posted By: J_BODY
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 02/10/15 01:54 PM
Not sure this will help.... but I'll throw it out there. I had a Griner t-brake valve body and Cheetah SCS shifter. Testing the Duster a couple weeks back I "thought" I was hitting 2nd at the hit.... when in actuality the shifter was making the shift by itself. The Cheetah SCS is a "gate shifter" that relies on the detents on the "rooster comb" of the valve body. A shifter like my old Hurst Pro Matic II or a nice PPP is a ratchet shifter and the detents will be on the shifter itself. Great design....as long as the shifter detents and the valve body detents line up (we had this issue once). What I did to attempt to alleviate this issue was to remove the valve body, removed the rooster comb and hit my first and second detents with a die grinder so the ball would fit deeper in the groove and shimmed the spring for the detent ball. I assembled it a couple of times and finally had it to where I could hardly shift it by hand on the bench. I put it in the car and hooked it up and now the shifter has much better "feel" and won't be shifting on it's own anymore. Might be worth a shot and doesn't cost anything but time
this was before I ground on the slots.... it doesn't take much.
....and this is the gate I have for the RMVB. I ordered a new gate for the clean N t=brake I have on the way.
Posted By: moparguy7074
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 02/10/15 03:07 PM
I've had my PPP shifter installed for two years w/CO2. It works great and so far I haven't had that problem.
I took out one of those Cheetah shifters to put in my PPP.
Posted By: gregsdart
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 02/10/15 03:21 PM
I use a CO2 system with a B&M ratchet shifter, NEVER had a miss or over shift. The shifter can't get to the next gear until pressure is released and the shifter can come back a bit to reset for the next gear. It has been fool proof for eighteen years.
Posted By: J_BODY
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 02/10/15 03:43 PM
Quote:
I've had my PPP shifter installed for two years w/CO2. It works great and so far I haven't had that problem.
I took out one of those Cheetah shifters to put in my PPP.
I called and talked to Paul at length about this shifter (SCS) and of course my "issue" was unheard of, but I know even my dad has gone 1-3 on this shifter manually as have a lot of others I've run into over the years with the SCS. Personally....If I was going air shift and was looking at the $450 "E controller" vs the $600 for the PPP.... I guess at that point I'd choke and go the PPP route..... or try modifying the rooster comb.... for free 
. I was on the phone ready to order a PPP, but the guy I was talking to about them about made my head explode, so I went back and figured I'd try and reinvent the wheel.
Posted By: markz528
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 02/10/15 04:21 PM
Quote:
my turbo action cheetah shifter (co2)goes from 1st to 3rd every now and then, played with air pressure and no better. turbo action says that does happen, they recommend e-controller ($450) any other shifters any better??
gary
I run the same set up since early 2000's. Never had that happen. Did have an issue when I installed the co2 unit, but they sent me a new part and it fixed it. At that time their customer service was very good and competent.
Precision performance is the best co2 shifter out there. If you need a quote on one of their shifters, pm me or email
mr2performance@sbcglobal.net Mike
Posted By: JD Dart
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 02/10/15 05:41 PM
You need to take out 1 of the springs that forces the handle over. The Dedenbear instruction made that very clear. If you bought a different C02 they probably didn't know. Same thing happen to a buddy of mine took it apart at the track removed the spring his has worked perfectly every time important on a 7.50 car.
Posted By: PLUM BAD
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 02/11/15 07:09 AM
I had the same problem several years ago. It would even do it test firing. You could hear the solenoid make a screech sound when it would fire. I took the air line off and added about 5 drops of air tool oil, and it solved the problem. So every now and then I add a few drops and haven't had a problem since.
Posted By: 440lebaron
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 02/11/15 10:56 PM
thanks,
I will check out the detents when I drop the pan for filter change, dedenbear insrtuctins only mention adding more air pressure so it does not shift thru second
gary
Posted By: cl440
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 08/06/18 03:47 PM
You need to take out 1 of the springs that forces the handle over. The Dedenbear instruction made that very clear. If you bought a different C02 they probably didn't know. Same thing happen to a buddy of mine took it apart at the track removed the spring his has worked perfectly every time important on a 7.50 car.
I am having the same problem (shifting 1st to 3rd) with the Cheetah SCS shifter, CRT RMVB and C02 shifter in the Daytona. I just read and re-read the instructions from Dedenbear and Turbo Action and I see nothing about removing a spring?
Posted By: Dave Hall
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 08/06/18 09:22 PM
Make sure you guys are running a minimum of 110lbs. to the solenoid. Some delay boxes or timers allow for a long electric pulse. Use the short one. There is a bunch of stuff that goes wrong over time with the slamming of the piston into the block. I always hated that little radius taken out of the block right where the piston slaps it. Modifying the bracket will give the piston a better angle to hit the block. If you grab the shifter you will go from 1st to 3rd every time. You have to slap it when shifting manually.
Posted By: J_BODY
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 08/07/18 03:09 AM
I DITCHED THAT POS CHEETAH YEARS AGO!!! tried to make it work, but they belong in the purple shaft, SS leaf spring, pinion snubber crowd!! PPP is an awesome shifter!!!!
Posted By: Adobedude
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 08/07/18 04:52 AM
I had nothing but problems with my cheetah shifter, I'd pull from 1st to 3rd, yeah I know, my problem
So I bought a CO2 shifter and the plunger mushroomed over, do a search.
I pulled it all out and went to a pro ratchet
Problem solved.
Posted By: markz528
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 08/07/18 05:07 AM
Make sure you guys are running a minimum of 110lbs. to the solenoid.
I agree. Last time out I ran low on pressure (80 psi) and it shifted 1st to 3rd 2 runs in a row.
Posted By: cl440
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 08/07/18 01:38 PM
Has anyone tried pulling one of the torsion springs out of the shifter?
Posted By: 440lebaron
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 08/07/18 05:42 PM
WOW I posted this in 2015 sold car 2 years ago
Posted By: cl440
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 08/07/18 07:11 PM
WOW I posted this in 2015 sold car 2 years ago
Yeah. I did a Google search and found it. Thought it would be good to revive it and see if I could get help figuring it out.
Posted By: cl440
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 08/13/18 07:38 PM
Well it happened again Sunday. Everything was working good up until 3rd round of eliminations. Trans went from first to third again! HAd him covered by .040 at the start but couldn't catch him at the finish line! Car loses a tenth when I don't have second gear!
We have had the valve body out and checked the detent ball and spring. Everything looks good there. Installed a brand new shifter and cable, Air shifter plunger, striker block and dowel. We have tried air pressure from as low as 70PSI upto 140PSI and everywhere in between.
It's totally random when it does it. It may work 3 to 5 times in a row and then start acting up. Then it may start working again later in the day?
I am shutting off the air and going to finish the season shifting manually (I think I remember how)
I didn't read all the posts on this but many many years ago when I had a 727 three speed shifter I had to totally have my hand off the shifter and bang the shifter for each shift. If I had the slightest pressure on it the detent wouldn't work and it would go from 1st to 3rd resulting in a loss of .10
Posted By: Dave Hall
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 08/13/18 11:39 PM
Damn that sucks! I had some of the same problems and kept an eye on the shifter to make sure the routine was right. I actually had the thing whiff and not shift at all before. I was bagging a tenth instead of losing it and broke out. I highly recommend a Powerglide or a PPP shifter. Here is me eyeballing my shifter at Fallon in 2014. Bob Johnson photo.
Posted By: CMcAllister
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 08/14/18 05:08 AM
Years ago when I ran a 3 speed, ATI made a CO2 shifter kit with cylinder mount for reverse VB Hurst Quarter Sticks. Mounted on the side and bumped the shifter into second. Then we used a shift light for third, at least for awhile until they outlawed it. Then you just use the tach or your ears. We could run 2 different shift points or shift 1-2 on time. Dead reliable and worked great. I really liked it. Still have it. Won't get rid of it since they haven't made them in years. I've thought about reproducing the thing.
Posted By: J_BODY
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 08/14/18 06:58 AM
Luckily for you there still seems to be a following for these shifters.... sell it and move on.
I really really really like my PPP....
Posted By: Gabby63
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 08/14/18 07:27 AM
I have fought the same issue for many years , did not want to give up on the shifter . In my case it was shift cable adjustment . When ever I would change tranmissions to my back up trans it would go right to 3rd , difference in trans . I would remember to re-adjust the cable & all was good . I also never have under 120 psi on CO2 either . Hang in there , you will get it eventually . Gary
Posted By: slantzilla
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 08/14/18 07:40 AM
My Valiant has an SCS and air shifter in it. I've already taken out the air shift part, the rest will be replaced this winter.
Posted By: cl440
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 08/14/18 01:49 PM
Damn thing is this. When we started the season this is the exact same setup we had in the Duster at the beginning of 2017 (Before I wrecked it) The new car has the same engine and trans and all shifting components transplanted from the Duster. It started giving us trouble from the first pass of 2018. We started adjusting and replacing components thinking that "This has got to fix it"! Every weekend it does it again! Frustrating to say the least.
Like I said manual shifting for the rest of the season and make some tough decisions over the winter. Possibly a 2 speed powerglide will be installed over the off season.
Sad thing is I have the best of the best parts in this 727 and more of those same parts in the back up trans. Straight cut gears, Billet drums, Spragless converters, Roller rear support, Billet servos and accumulators etc..... Literally thousands of dollars in top quality 727 parts!
Posted By: cl440
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 08/14/18 01:52 PM
Damn that sucks! I had some of the same problems and kept an eye on the shifter to make sure the routine was right. I actually had the thing whiff and not shift at all before. I was bagging a tenth instead of losing it and broke out. I highly recommend a Powerglide or a PPP shifter. Here is me eyeballing my shifter at Fallon in 2014. Bob Johnson photo.
Yep! That is me every round! Just waiting (Because I know its coming) for it to mess up! So frustrating when you know your good enough to go rounds but you cant trust the car!
Posted By: Dart451
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 08/14/18 03:07 PM
Have electric shiftnoid in car and it works great
http://www.shifnoid.com/products.html#electric_shiftersControlled by
https://www.racedigitaldelay.com/rpm-1067-rpm.phpThey had great service when I had a small problem
Posted By: Dave Hall
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 08/14/18 10:44 PM
I never knew consistency until I went to a Powerglide. The car is a tenth quicker with it as well! I have the same 727 with K's in great parts and it now resides in my street car. Super reliable but the thing would zerox 60' times then out of left field it would throw a 2-5 hundredths curve ball. The 3 spd. was inconsistent for Super Street as well and I was basically bagging a tenth and wheel racing for some wins. I never even calculated a throttle stop ratio until I changed to the Glide. So frustrating! Ironically I still use the SCS shifter for the glide. I had to replace the gate, drill and tap for a slap block and flip the solenoid bracket so that it bangs forward. ONCE! It works great. All C02 shifters require inspection and lubrication. It's just the nature of the beast when you are banging things with 120psi. If you are going to shift the SCS manually for the rest of the season don't GRAB the shifter when selecting 2nd. Slap it! Good luck with it!
Posted By: cl440
Re: 727 CO2 SHIFTER - 08/15/18 02:00 PM
I never knew consistency until I went to a Powerglide. The car is a tenth quicker with it as well! I have the same 727 with K's in great parts and it now resides in my street car. Super reliable but the thing would zerox 60' times then out of left field it would throw a 2-5 hundredths curve ball. The 3 spd. was inconsistent for Super Street as well and I was basically bagging a tenth and wheel racing for some wins. I never even calculated a throttle stop ratio until I changed to the Glide. So frustrating! Ironically I still use the SCS shifter for the glide. I had to replace the gate, drill and tap for a slap block and flip the solenoid bracket so that it bangs forward. ONCE! It works great. All C02 shifters require inspection and lubrication. It's just the nature of the beast when you are banging things with 120psi. If you are going to shift the SCS manually for the rest of the season don't GRAB the shifter when selecting 2nd. Slap it! Good luck with it!
Good read. Thanks for taking the time. A PG may be what we do but it wont be until the winter when we have time to make the switch. Installing the shift light tonight after work. I will be slapping gears for the remainder of the season! Thanks