Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 01:51 AM

And MrP, if you think there is no way a set of belts can be trashed in two years, you would be dead wrong. I worked tech at a track for several years. I have looked at thousands of sets of belts. Just because YOU take pristine care of your equipment and your car sits inside all the time, doesn't mean everybody does the same. As a matter of fact, it is quite the opposite. I told several guys over the course of the years to not come back with those belts, I don't care if they ARE in date. Just like the header tethers. Just because you or anyone else here has never had a rusted ass collector fall off their car while making a pass, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Used to happen on a near weekly basis at the track I worked at and still does. It obviously happens with enough frequency to have a rule written........same with the belts.

The point here is........this is a SAFETY issue and as such, racers can "petition" til the cows come home. The NHRA is not going to "soften" a safety issue because guys are complaining about such a low dollar item.......not going to happen, so might as well find something else to complain about. Like somebody said above, if you are that adamant about it, you can always stay home.

Over the course of the years, I have strongly expressed several opinions to various organizations, about several things I thought were not needed or didn't make sense...........but none of that was ever because I thought they were trying to be TOO safe

Monte

We test belts all the time at work... set them in
high HV, in dirt, heat... they are way stronger than
you think.. and this was just 2" belts.. the human
body will crush before the belt let go

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 01:56 AM

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Good luck and all that, but in reality you have 3 choices. Put belts in every 2 years, run at outlaw tracks or stay home. It's their playground, their rules.

I'm not a big cheerleader for NHRA, but I've raced at tracks with zero tech and I've done tech at an NHRA track. Both experiences were often times very scary. With everything else that it takes to go racing, a lousy set of belts is way down the list of crap for me to lose sleep over. They're a consumable, like tires, gaskets, fuel, oil.

Without safety being a priority, there is no insurance. Without insurance, there is no racing. Why do you think your new street car has all the safety devices and designs built in? Lawyers and insurance companies.

This right here. This rule has been this way for years and is not going to be changed. Guys have class cars that cost up to 100k and complaining about a $150 set of belts every two years...........ok then. You want to start a petition, how about something that you MIGHT actually have a chance with.........like maybe lower entry fees for sportsman classes.

I have NEVER understood the uproar over this deal

Monte

Sometimes I think if you actually owned and RACED your own car you might think differently but then again maybe not. MOST of us are small-time racers on small time budgets. Have a nice day.

I find it humorous what guys THINK they KNOW. I have raced my whole life, just because I am currently not racing my own car, don't amount to SQUAT. I make plenty of runs over the course of a season, just not in MY car at this time. But when I was, you know what, I put belts in my car every two years, because it was the damn rules and never complained about it. I had my chassis certed when they said I needed to. When they said my Simpson helmet was no longer legal because it was out of date, but didn't have a scratch, I bought a new one. When they said I needed a -15 suit for a nitrous car, I bought one........So now I have a -15 suit, I have fire boots instead of my sneakers, I have a Hans device and -20 gloves......why, because it is the rules, plus I am pretty fond of keeping my extremities intact. I wear all that gear, regardless the ETs the car I am driving runs. And when it expires, I will get more.

If a $150 set of belts over the course of two years is a deal breaker......maybe you need a new hobby. That amounts to a few less trips through the drive thru or the beer store over a couple years.

Monte

And YET you say you can't afford to race your own car. Lets hear your story after you pay for gas money, entry fees, maintenance, and everything else required for supporting your car with your monies. Its more of a nuisance to me as I have 3 cars, two of which will hit the track this year. The part that bothers me the most is its a "money grab" and to keep the sponsors happy. I really feel for the guys that hit 1 or 2 Mopar races a year only to need belts again. My cars are teched by IHRA and NHRA officials and if while checking my belt certs needed replaced before the 5 year period I would have a new set in before next weeks race.

I never said I couldn't afford to race my car. What I DID say was that I couldn't afford to cough up about 40k at one time for the motor I want. I have a couple motors I could put in it just to "get to" the track, but that isn't what I want to do. So for now it sits until I gather the parts for it to be like I want it. I am a working guy, just like everyone else. Now, I could sell my truck and trailer and buy smaller and cheaper. I could sell my boat, my bike, my jeep, some guns and likely a bunch of other "toys" I have accumulated over the years. I could stop taking my girl out to eat as much, or buying her stuff...........lots of things I COULD do, but I choose not to at this point. I will have the parts, when I have them and won't sacrifice other things I WANT to do in the process.

Monte

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 02:11 AM

Racing is as expensive as YOU choose to make it. Nobody is twisting your arm to build a car that requires lots of safety gear to be inspected, or fast enough to require a comp license to drive it, or have the cage certed. That is a choice YOU make. License, safety gear, all that stuff was in place BEFORE anybody elected to build the car they built. You knew it going in and NOW complain about it. You want to do it on the cheap? Build a slow beater that requires little to no safety gear, run it at any number of small outlaw tracks that check NOTHING and will even let you get by with shorts and a t-shirt.

Kinda like buying an exotic sports car and then complaining the insurance and fuel is too expensive.......didn't you know that going in?

Monte

Posted By: rickraw

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 02:55 AM

Not being a smart azz, do u change ur belts in ur daily driver every 2 years? Same deal as ur race car.

Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 03:06 AM

Some of this stuff is proactive. But most of the rules on these things that are being complained about, belts, helmets, suits, certs, shields, diapers, tethers, licenses, etc, etc, are the result of someone, maybe more than one someone, being killed or crippled by something stupid and/or unforeseen. There are accidents and then there's asking for it. I understand the organizations running the show have to protect the sport from the idiots who are asking for it, and they have to try to prevent hard learned lessons from being repeated. Everybody, from John Force to the kid in a Honda on a test and tune day, has to deal with it or not go down the track. Like it or not.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 03:14 AM

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Not being a smart azz, do u change ur belts in ur daily driver every 2 years? Same deal as ur race car.

Do you wear a helmet and fire suit in your daily driver? Same deal as your race car.....right?

Monte

Posted By: plycuda

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 03:48 AM

If all us poor people finds a new hobby there probably wouldn't be to many tracks left open for all the rich people

Posted By: dvw

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 04:03 AM

I have no problem with safety or buying safety equipment. That's why I have more than required. What I do have issue with as does everyone else is "planned obsolescence" Otherwise known as SFI recerts. When you cert your car they don't even look at cage welds, yet require my tig welded chrome moly cage to be rechecked for thickness every 3 years? How many "cold fusion" certed cages have you seen? What makes it worse is that once you've spent the money nobody checks anyway. Tech?, give them your tech card and roll into the staging lanes. Yet they worry about 2 year belts? Get real.
Doug

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 04:28 AM

Quote:

I have no problem with safety or buying safety equipment. That's why I have more than required. What I do have issue with as does everyone else is "planned obsolescence" Otherwise known as SFI recerts. When you cert your car they don't even look at cage welds, yet require my tig welded chrome moly cage to be rechecked for thickness every 3 years? How many "cold fusion" certed cages have you seen? What makes it worse is that once you've spent the money nobody checks anyway. Tech?, give them your tech card and roll into the staging lanes. Yet they worry about 2 year belts? Get real.
Doug

The fact that tech doesn't check stuff, is nobodys fault but that particular tech staff. Every police officer I see doesn't check my license and insurance card either, but that doesn't negate that fact that I am supposed to have it in case they do. Certain tracks are notoriously tough on tech at a weekly race, some aren't. But when we were running Super Stock and went to national events, there was NOTHING that didn't get checked. The Division 2 guy that does our cage certs, goes over every weld and every bar with a fine tooth comb. Do all of them......highly unlikely, but HE does. And the reason that your cage is certed every two years, is because guys are constantly working on cars and changing things, which may include welding on the chassis. Welding on a certed chassis, within the confines of the inspection portion of the structure, negates the current sticker and they KNOW most are not going to call up and say "hey, I welded on my car and I need to have it checked"......so as with most things, they make that call FOR you, by having scheduled cert expirations.

And as far as all these regulations, as already pointed out, but nobody seems to care, is that NHRA does NOT set the certs, SFI does and NHRA chooses to follow those guidelines. For some reason all the "conspiracy theory" guys, seem to think it is all some grand plan by the NHRA to milk you out of money, when it really doesn't have anything to do with them. This where the "kickbacks" and "under the table money" guys start telling us how it really works. Well ok, if that's what you think fine. But SFI is an independent organization that NHRA, NTPA(as well as most pulling orgs), most drag boat orgs, World of Outlaws and dozens of other racing organizations follow. If you have an issue with a time line........SFI is who you should complain to, not NHRA. Everybody brings up NASCAR...........well they DON'T use SFI, they set their own standards and have the money behind them to fund it and do their own testing. NHRA doesn't.

And if you want to know what orgs use SFI standards, go to the SFI site and look under "coalition members" and it tells you

Monte

Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 04:40 AM

Winter time on Moparts,,,,ahhhh,,,love it. I think I am starting to like the "new belts every 2 years" discussion more than "how to set my pinion angle".

Posted By: rickstershemi

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 04:51 AM

You Won't Ever Hear The Owner of this Car complain about replacing the safety harness every two years.....his safety equipment saved his life after rolling my old 63 Vet at 170mph

It's been stripped of anything he could salvage to go into his new 68 Camaro Roadster.

Rickster

Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 04:52 AM

I bet the more rules SFI makes the more money they charge, or is it a non-profit org. Oh yea the manufacters pay them to spec there product, kinda fuzzy there, i got an itch, could you scratch it for me. It is a dangerous sport, if no thrill of getting hurt why do it? Just play your X-Box

Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 04:59 AM

[quote

It's been stripped of anything he could salvage to go into his new 68 Camaro Roadster.

Funny car cage keeps you in when the belts brake right? Opps no cage. Like a helmet will save your life when crashing a mortocycle at 100 mph

Rickster

Posted By: jcc

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 05:08 AM

I didn't realize this belt problem was so widespread, I'm surprised we don't soon see a 1 year replacement policy. I mean its all about safety about what might happen, especially by the dumbest of the sport.

"let them eat cake"

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 05:16 AM

And yet NHRA lets guys continue to lock up their brakes skidding thru the lights at every race. And don't get me started about racers smoking pot to calm their nerves on race day and seat belts that are sooooo lose they can turn the whole way around in the drivers seat.

Posted By: fullmetaljacket

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 05:42 AM

All saddled up and done here.

Posted By: chryco

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 05:45 AM

SIGNED !

Posted By: knyech1

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 05:46 AM

Quote:

I have no problem with safety or buying safety equipment. That's why I have more than required. What I do have issue with as does everyone else is "planned obsolescence" Otherwise known as SFI recerts. When you cert your car they don't even look at cage welds, yet require my tig welded chrome moly cage to be rechecked for thickness every 3 years? How many "cold fusion" certed cages have you seen? What makes it worse is that once you've spent the money nobody checks anyway. Tech?, give them your tech card and roll into the staging lanes. Yet they worry about 2 year belts? Get real.
Doug

I don't even know how they could tell if you TIG welded your moly cage or not. It's funny that it's a requirement. I have welded cages with a MIG, just made sure I used 100% Ar. No way you could tell, filler material was the same composition.

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And YET you say you can't afford to race your own car. Lets hear your story after you pay for gas money, entry fees, maintenance, and everything else required for supporting your car with your monies. Its more of a nuisance to me as I have 3 cars, two of which will hit the track this year. The part that bothers me the most is its a "money grab" and to keep the sponsors happy. I really feel for the guys that hit 1 or 2 Mopar races a year only to need belts again. My cars are teched by IHRA and NHRA officials and if while checking my belt certs needed replaced before the 5 year period I would have a new set in before next weeks race.

I am that guy. I make 1 race a year and 2 if I have the money (rare). I am just another guy, like the other 90% of the ppl out there that want to participate in blood pumping fun racing LEGALLY and the only way to do it is in a controlled environment, unless you want to get arrested. I don't go out to win, I go out for the fun and the camaraderie and to be part of the sport. My car is slow, not fast enough to require a 2 year belt rule, and on a single income family, yet have to pay for belts every 2 years. It sucks throwing away brand new belts, and not being able to put the money where it needs to be. I agree with Mr. P; 5 year old belts will still break the human body in two.

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 04:32 PM

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I have no problem with safety or buying safety equipment. That's why I have more than required. What I do have issue with as does everyone else is "planned obsolescence" Otherwise known as SFI recerts. When you cert your car they don't even look at cage welds, yet require my tig welded chrome moly cage to be rechecked for thickness every 3 years? How many "cold fusion" certed cages have you seen? What makes it worse is that once you've spent the money nobody checks anyway. Tech?, give them your tech card and roll into the staging lanes. Yet they worry about 2 year belts? Get real.
Doug

The fact that tech doesn't check stuff, is nobodys fault but that particular tech staff. Every police officer I see doesn't check my license and insurance card either, but that doesn't negate that fact that I am supposed to have it in case they do. Certain tracks are notoriously tough on tech at a weekly race, some aren't. But when we were running Super Stock and went to national events, there was NOTHING that didn't get checked. The Division 2 guy that does our cage certs, goes over every weld and every bar with a fine tooth comb. Do all of them......highly unlikely, but HE does. And the reason that your cage is certed every two years, is because guys are constantly working on cars and changing things, which may include welding on the chassis. Welding on a certed chassis, within the confines of the inspection portion of the structure, negates the current sticker and they KNOW most are not going to call up and say "hey, I welded on my car and I need to have it checked"......so as with most things, they make that call FOR you, by having scheduled cert expirations.

And as far as all these regulations, as already pointed out, but nobody seems to care, is that NHRA does NOT set the certs, SFI does and NHRA chooses to follow those guidelines. For some reason all the "conspiracy theory" guys, seem to think it is all some grand plan by the NHRA to milk you out of money, when it really doesn't have anything to do with them. This where the "kickbacks" and "under the table money" guys start telling us how it really works. Well ok, if that's what you think fine. But SFI is an independent organization that NHRA, NTPA(as well as most pulling orgs), most drag boat orgs, World of Outlaws and dozens of other racing organizations follow. If you have an issue with a time line........SFI is who you should complain to, not NHRA. Everybody brings up NASCAR...........well they DON'T use SFI, they set their own standards and have the money behind them to fund it and do their own testing. NHRA doesn't.

And if you want to know what orgs use SFI standards, go to the SFI site and look under "coalition members" and it tells you

Monte

Here you go again preaching to the ones of us who have a race car about spending the extra $$$ and your Daymn car is not even running!!!

There ain't no way in Hell I'm gonna take advice from anybody about my race car that does not even have a running/race ready race car!

It seems the people who do not have to buy the useless sh*t,because they do not have a car or their car is not fast enough are the ones who are always pushing and wanting all of the stoopid A$$ rules.

Ya'll say if you can afford to build a $80,000.00-$100,000.00 you can afford all these little piss A$$ $150.00-$250.00 parts that we don't need.I say after we have done spent $100,000 on our race car with all the latest greatest stuff,we need to keep our $$$ to race.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 04:44 PM

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The Division 2 guy that does our cage certs, goes over every weld and every bar with a fine tooth comb. Do all of them......highly unlikely, but HE does.

And what does this prove? Nothing unless he has x-ray vision.

A friend of mine welds professionally for a living and he has shown me examples of welding that looks great.. till you put the pipe in a vise and pull on it and it breaks.

I find someone "looking" at a weld of dubious value after his hands on demonstration.

Oh I'm against the 2 year rule as well. Belts that are brand spanking new in the box are junk due to a date but you can race with 40 or 50 year old factory belts. Madness.

Another reason I don't race as much as I use to and the rules being unevenly applied at certain tracks.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 06:02 PM

Quote:

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I have no problem with safety or buying safety equipment. That's why I have more than required. What I do have issue with as does everyone else is "planned obsolescence" Otherwise known as SFI recerts. When you cert your car they don't even look at cage welds, yet require my tig welded chrome moly cage to be rechecked for thickness every 3 years? How many "cold fusion" certed cages have you seen? What makes it worse is that once you've spent the money nobody checks anyway. Tech?, give them your tech card and roll into the staging lanes. Yet they worry about 2 year belts? Get real.
Doug

The fact that tech doesn't check stuff, is nobodys fault but that particular tech staff. Every police officer I see doesn't check my license and insurance card either, but that doesn't negate that fact that I am supposed to have it in case they do. Certain tracks are notoriously tough on tech at a weekly race, some aren't. But when we were running Super Stock and went to national events, there was NOTHING that didn't get checked. The Division 2 guy that does our cage certs, goes over every weld and every bar with a fine tooth comb. Do all of them......highly unlikely, but HE does. And the reason that your cage is certed every two years, is because guys are constantly working on cars and changing things, which may include welding on the chassis. Welding on a certed chassis, within the confines of the inspection portion of the structure, negates the current sticker and they KNOW most are not going to call up and say "hey, I welded on my car and I need to have it checked"......so as with most things, they make that call FOR you, by having scheduled cert expirations.

And as far as all these regulations, as already pointed out, but nobody seems to care, is that NHRA does NOT set the certs, SFI does and NHRA chooses to follow those guidelines. For some reason all the "conspiracy theory" guys, seem to think it is all some grand plan by the NHRA to milk you out of money, when it really doesn't have anything to do with them. This where the "kickbacks" and "under the table money" guys start telling us how it really works. Well ok, if that's what you think fine. But SFI is an independent organization that NHRA, NTPA(as well as most pulling orgs), most drag boat orgs, World of Outlaws and dozens of other racing organizations follow. If you have an issue with a time line........SFI is who you should complain to, not NHRA. Everybody brings up NASCAR...........well they DON'T use SFI, they set their own standards and have the money behind them to fund it and do their own testing. NHRA doesn't.

And if you want to know what orgs use SFI standards, go to the SFI site and look under "coalition members" and it tells you

Monte

Here you go again preaching to the ones of us who have a race car about spending the extra $$$ and your Daymn car is not even running!!! There ain't no way in Hell I'm gonna take advice from anybody about my race car that does not even have a running/race ready race car! It seems the people who do not have to buy the useless sh*t,because they do not have a car or their car is not fast enough are the ones who are always pushing and wanting all of the stoopid A$$ rules. Ya'll say if you can afford to build a $80,000.00-$100,000.00 you can afford all these little piss A$$ $150.00-$250.00 parts that we don't need.I say after we have done spent $100,000 on our race car with all the latest greatest stuff,we need to keep our $$$ to race.

I already said ALL my safety gear was current.............and you are not going to listen to me......fine, I could care less, do whatever you want. But YOU yourself admitted on this board, to driving your dragster, wearing only a T-shirt and sneakers, because it was too hot. So we already seem to understand your point of view on safety gear.......because yeah, you're right, if you are not even gonna wear a jacket, shoes and gloves, having to buy new belts sure don't make much sense. So I stand corrected......you're right.

Monte

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 06:31 PM

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Good luck and all that, but in reality you have 3 choices. Put belts in every 2 years, run at outlaw tracks or stay home. It's their playground, their rules.

I'm not a big cheerleader for NHRA, but I've raced at tracks with zero tech and I've done tech at an NHRA track. Both experiences were often times very scary. With everything else that it takes to go racing, a lousy set of belts is way down the list of crap for me to lose sleep over. They're a consumable, like tires, gaskets, fuel, oil.

Without safety being a priority, there is no insurance. Without insurance, there is no racing. Why do you think your new street car has all the safety devices and designs built in? Lawyers and insurance companies.

This right here. This rule has been this way for years and is not going to be changed. Guys have class cars that cost up to 100k and complaining about a $150 set of belts every two years...........ok then. You want to start a petition, how about something that you MIGHT actually have a chance with.........like maybe lower entry fees for sportsman classes.

I have NEVER understood the uproar over this deal

Monte

Sometimes I think if you actually owned and RACED your own car you might think differently but then again maybe not. MOST of us are small-time racers on small time budgets. Have a nice day.

I find it humorous what guys THINK they KNOW. I have raced my whole life, just because I am currently not racing my own car, don't amount to SQUAT. I make plenty of runs over the course of a season, just not in MY car at this time. But when I was, you know what, I put belts in my car every two years, because it was the damn rules and never complained about it. I had my chassis certed when they said I needed to. When they said my Simpson helmet was no longer legal because it was out of date, but didn't have a scratch, I bought a new one. When they said I needed a -15 suit for a nitrous car, I bought one........So now I have a -15 suit, I have fire boots instead of my sneakers, I have a Hans device and -20 gloves......why, because it is the rules, plus I am pretty fond of keeping my extremities intact. I wear all that gear, regardless the ETs the car I am driving runs. And when it expires, I will get more.

If a $150 set of belts over the course of two years is a deal breaker......maybe you need a new hobby. That amounts to a few less trips through the drive thru or the beer store over a couple years.

Monte

And YET you say you can't afford to race your own car. Lets hear your story after you pay for gas money, entry fees, maintenance, and everything else required for supporting your car with your monies. Its more of a nuisance to me as I have 3 cars, two of which will hit the track this year. The part that bothers me the most is its a "money grab" and to keep the sponsors happy. I really feel for the guys that hit 1 or 2 Mopar races a year only to need belts again. My cars are teched by IHRA and NHRA officials and if while checking my belt certs needed replaced before the 5 year period I would have a new set in before next weeks race.

I never said I couldn't afford to race my car. What I DID say was that I couldn't afford to cough up about 40k at one time for the motor I want. I have a couple motors I could put in it just to "get to" the track, but that isn't what I want to do. So for now it sits until I gather the parts for it to be like I want it. I am a working guy, just like everyone else. Now, I could sell my truck and trailer and buy smaller and cheaper. I could sell my boat, my bike, my jeep, some guns and likely a bunch of other "toys" I have accumulated over the years. I could stop taking my girl out to eat as much, or buying her stuff...........lots of things I COULD do, but I choose not to at this point. I will have the parts, when I have them and won't sacrifice other things I WANT to do in the process.

Monte

You need to stop spending so much on your girl and get a mopar motor in that GTX

Posted By: aspenrt360

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 06:31 PM

the nhra lost track of the little guy a long time ago which will lead to the death of the sport soon enough. one day someone will come along to fill he void they leave because there are a lot of folks that want to run. you see it all the time in the grass roots armdrop events that pop up at tracks that are starving for events. we have a track here that runs races that can't bring 20 cars to a test and tune the night before a race and less than 50 cars to the race. why it costs too much money! hell they would charge for the air you breath if they could. another event that we have locally is run at an airstrip with insurance and ambulance present there is tech as well. it costs 20 bucks to run what you drove up in and get as many runs in as you like. last event had at least 250 cars and a couple of thousand spectators. it has been building for a couple of years now. a lot of the cars are race cars that had stopped running due to costs now they are back and loving it again. it is heads up racing if you win great if not tough but everybody seems to be having a really good time!

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 07:00 PM

Quote:

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I have no problem with safety or buying safety equipment. That's why I have more than required. What I do have issue with as does everyone else is "planned obsolescence" Otherwise known as SFI recerts. When you cert your car they don't even look at cage welds, yet require my tig welded chrome moly cage to be rechecked for thickness every 3 years? How many "cold fusion" certed cages have you seen? What makes it worse is that once you've spent the money nobody checks anyway. Tech?, give them your tech card and roll into the staging lanes. Yet they worry about 2 year belts? Get real.
Doug

The fact that tech doesn't check stuff, is nobodys fault but that particular tech staff. Every police officer I see doesn't check my license and insurance card either, but that doesn't negate that fact that I am supposed to have it in case they do. Certain tracks are notoriously tough on tech at a weekly race, some aren't. But when we were running Super Stock and went to national events, there was NOTHING that didn't get checked. The Division 2 guy that does our cage certs, goes over every weld and every bar with a fine tooth comb. Do all of them......highly unlikely, but HE does. And the reason that your cage is certed every two years, is because guys are constantly working on cars and changing things, which may include welding on the chassis. Welding on a certed chassis, within the confines of the inspection portion of the structure, negates the current sticker and they KNOW most are not going to call up and say "hey, I welded on my car and I need to have it checked"......so as with most things, they make that call FOR you, by having scheduled cert expirations.

And as far as all these regulations, as already pointed out, but nobody seems to care, is that NHRA does NOT set the certs, SFI does and NHRA chooses to follow those guidelines. For some reason all the "conspiracy theory" guys, seem to think it is all some grand plan by the NHRA to milk you out of money, when it really doesn't have anything to do with them. This where the "kickbacks" and "under the table money" guys start telling us how it really works. Well ok, if that's what you think fine. But SFI is an independent organization that NHRA, NTPA(as well as most pulling orgs), most drag boat orgs, World of Outlaws and dozens of other racing organizations follow. If you have an issue with a time line........SFI is who you should complain to, not NHRA. Everybody brings up NASCAR...........well they DON'T use SFI, they set their own standards and have the money behind them to fund it and do their own testing. NHRA doesn't.

And if you want to know what orgs use SFI standards, go to the SFI site and look under "coalition members" and it tells you

Monte

Here you go again preaching to the ones of us who have a race car about spending the extra $$$ and your Daymn car is not even running!!! There ain't no way in Hell I'm gonna take advice from anybody about my race car that does not even have a running/race ready race car! It seems the people who do not have to buy the useless sh*t,because they do not have a car or their car is not fast enough are the ones who are always pushing and wanting all of the stoopid A$$ rules. Ya'll say if you can afford to build a $80,000.00-$100,000.00 you can afford all these little piss A$$ $150.00-$250.00 parts that we don't need.I say after we have done spent $100,000 on our race car with all the latest greatest stuff,we need to keep our $$$ to race.

I already said ALL my safety gear was current.............and you are not going to listen to me......fine, I could care less, do whatever you want. But YOU yourself admitted on this board, to driving your dragster, wearing only a T-shirt and sneakers, because it was too hot. So we already seem to understand your point of view on safety gear.......because yeah, you're right, if you are not even gonna wear a jacket, shoes and gloves, having to buy new belts sure don't make much sense. So I stand corrected......you're right.

Monte

Monte,would you like to see the picture again?

PS Monte,I just have to ask when you put on your all of your SFI NHRA mandated neck brace,helment,butt plug,fire suit,gloves and shoes and you are setting in the staging lanes with your new $250.00 belts snugged down good & tight and you have to fart...?

Attached picture 8402580-mmp05.jpg

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 07:46 PM

You seem to be awfully proud of the fact, that you basically do what YOU want WHEN you want and thumb your nose at the safety rules................Then you and others seem to wonder why there are so many seemingly meaningless and arbitrary rules. If people actually FOLLOWED the rules and used some common sense, there would probably be LESS rules..........some just can't see the forest for the trees............LOL!!!

As for my own personal cares........if you feel you want to race in shorts and flip flops, makes no damn difference to me. It's your azz..............BUT, when and if you do have an accident and it is found you were not wearing your safety gear, what do you think they will do........mandate LESS because you didn't think it was required...............alrighty then.........carry on and don't get too hot now. Would hate to see that happen

Monte

Posted By: BuckeyeBrawler

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 07:58 PM

Quote:

I have no problem with safety or buying safety equipment. That's why I have more than required. What I do have issue with as does everyone else is "planned obsolescence" Otherwise known as SFI recerts. When you cert your car they don't even look at cage welds, yet require my tig welded chrome moly cage to be rechecked for thickness every 3 years? How many "cold fusion" certed cages have you seen? What makes it worse is that once you've spent the money nobody checks anyway. Tech?, give them your tech card and roll into the staging lanes. Yet they worry about 2 year belts? Get real.
Doug

That is the worst of it, when you spend hard earned dollars on the required equipment and then it's not even checked. Really ! Here's your tech card a great tech inspection.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 08:31 PM

Looks like about 4077 people that go on different websites aren't happy with this STUPID rule. Just think if everyone that disagrees with it would sign up.

Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 08:46 PM

http://sfifoundation.com/article-2/

Given the data or findings here I dont think any amount of people signing it is going to have an impact. In the end increasing the length of time belts can be used is an insurance risk for the SFI foundation.

It sucks for people who only make a dozen passes a year, but the other side of the coin says there are guys making 300+ laps a year in their dragsters where the belts are exposed to the elements much more. In that case, replacing them more often might make sense, instead they've chosen to say if you want to play in our sand box, 2 years is all you get.

For what it's worth I signed it, but I'm not holding my breath.

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 09:21 PM

Funny thing about this whole argument to me is how a salvage yard I used to deal with in tennessee would pull a 40 year old lap belt out of a car, tie the free end to a tine on the scoop of a backhoe and pick up the entire car by that strap with one anchor bolt holding it

they said they done it that way for years and never saw one break. I saw them one time pull a cummins out of an old dodge tranny and all with a seat belt from a 30 year old honda accord.

If the belts they are certifying are losing 1/2 there strength in one year they need to up the standards of the belts not make you replace them every two year.

Sure they should inspect them for fraying but if a belt won't last 2 years it is a piece of garbage to begin with and should never receive a certification from SFI

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 10:02 PM

Quote:

If the belts they are certifying are losing 1/2 there strength in one year they need to up the standards of the belts not make you replace them every two year.

Nothing but a money grab pure and simple.

Like I said- A joke that 40 year old belts that have sat out in the sun for decades are ok to make a pass with but 3 year old 3" race belts are treated as junk.

Posted By: camastomcat

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 10:55 PM

I wondered if this post would turn into this. I am sceptical about a re-cert every 2 years, but with everything I spend on my equipment, another $65 to have my belts done, is nothing. It's 4 gallons of race gas. I also had a problem initially with re-certing the car every 2 years. Then on a re-cert a few years ago, they found a break in the chassis I didn't see. I'm on board with these rules. If some dufas wants to race a 6.90 car without the gear on, have at it. To me, I feel safe with it all on and current. BTW, the bi-annual renewal is how I found out I had Diabetes 15 years ago. It looks like the street race guys only wear -1 suits. Maybe that would be a good place to race with no rules. I like the show.....just sayin. JMO

Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 11:00 PM

All the regulation and rules are set by the insurance companys, they want no possible chance of paying for any personal injury, hence the over kill on requirments. Just pay the premium. They spread the fear of imposing danger so its the right thing to do with every body jumping on the band wagon, if you question them on being to much, oh you the bad guy. So much safty crap in every industry in the last tweenty years its over-whelming. Before long we will need lawsuit insurance. Sadly its here to stay they own the house.

Posted By: rickraw

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/20/15 11:35 PM

Hot rod Dave is the winner. He summed it all up in 1 post.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/21/15 12:09 AM

YEP, and they say we need new belts every 2 years. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYQx5pDRHp8

Who was the "big name" racer that wrecked locking up their brakes last year and nothing was done about it.

Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/21/15 01:05 AM

Let's say the NHRA acquiesced to your demands and lengthened the replacement period to 5 years and then a horrific accident happened and a 4-year-old belt failed killing the driver. The lawyers would be all over it.

Whenever the word "safety" is involved, any backward change to existing rules invites litigation when the SHTF.

Posted By: W.I.N. Racing

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/21/15 01:56 AM

That is the worst of it, when you spend hard earned dollars on the required equipment and then it's not even checked. Really ! Here's your tech card a great tech inspection.

Really that's the worst of it??? I would be more concerned about others not being checked for their mechanical safety requirements. My stuff is up to spec and I don't require a pat on the head telling me what a good boy I am.
Those that don't wear the proper safety gear, well your just playing with fire and for the most part I don't care, but your indiscretion will effect others in the event of a mishap.
BTW...Monte, Darwin and I got your back on this one

Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/21/15 02:03 AM

Quote:

YEP, and they say we need new belts every 2 years. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYQx5pDRHp8

Who was the "big name" racer that wrecked locking up their brakes last year and nothing was done about it.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/21/15 02:29 AM

Not sure what exactly the video of that IDIOT in a 9 sec street car is supposed to prove regarding this thread...........but ok

Monte

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/21/15 02:32 AM

After every race I pull the body panels off both my dragster and wash and clean and check everything on the dragster,and do as much possible on our door cars I make sure everything is right week-week.And don't need no daymn inspector or any one else to find any thing on my cars and they won't because I check them myself.Now for the ones of you who are to lazy or lack the knowledge to check your own cars that needs other people to check their cars to find flaws,they need to either hire them somebody to do it for them on a race-race bases or quit racing,because you are the ones that's endangering the rest of us racers thinking just because they buy all the NHRA mandated parts there is no need to check anything else!

Posted By: fullmetaljacket

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/21/15 03:05 AM

Hey guys, get your forged authentic looking date patches here for your sound and safe belts. Cash and carry only. LOL.

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/21/15 03:05 AM

Quote:

Who was the "big name" racer that wrecked locking up their brakes last year and nothing was done about it.

I believe he would be referring to Thomas Fletcher(Dan Fletchers son). And there was a warning given, which is standard procedure and up to the discretion of the officials at the race.

Posted By: RMCHRGR

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/21/15 05:01 AM

I didn't sign the petition. Frankly, there are too many spelling and grammatical errors in the statement to take it seriously.

Through my limited experience, it's pretty clear to me that you need money to be in this sport and probably a lot of it to be successful. Nobody bats an eye when you buy a new go-fast trinket. So in the grand scheme of things, factoring in what amounts to a small percentage of your overall racing budget on safety requirements seems like a reasonable tradeoff.

Posted By: rickstershemi

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/21/15 05:35 AM

Quote:

[quote

It's been stripped of anything he could salvage to go into his new 68 Camaro Roadster.

Funny car cage keeps you in when the belts brake right? Opps no cage. Like a helmet will save your life when crashing a mortocycle at 100 mph

Rickster

They had to cut the cage off to get Tom out (he's a huge guy) his belts kept him from being tossed around inside the cage.

Rickster

Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/21/15 05:41 AM

I don't get it. I'm not interested in ending up in a wheelchair blowing spit bubbles or 6 feet under, because a part failed or a mistake was made that caused a mishap. I want to take advantage of every opportunity that modern technology, science, research, and hard lessons can provide to prevent that from happening. If you want to race in a T-shirt and flip flops, if the factory belts in your car are good enough, if all these rules are BS and a money grab, why not opt out and just go street race?

The first person who says "It's dangerous" is gonna look pretty silly.

Posted By: BuckeyeBrawler

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/21/15 05:43 AM

That was the point that I was trying to make! I've seen more than one car sitting in the staging lanes with bald azz front runners on it! WTH it's got new belts in it! Well you know what it might be in the other lane racing me. In the back of your mind you have to wonder what else on that thing ain't right! And to Monte if you did something wrong that police officer you mentioned already knew who the car was registered to, before you got pulled over! bottom line I'll spend the money to play in their sand box, just my opinion the 2 yr. thing is a bit of overkill. Brawler

Posted By: evenflow

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/21/15 06:19 PM

A $150 set of belts over 2 years works out to a cost of about $1.56 a week. if you want to bet life or limb that you are smarter than the sfi foundation for a $1.56 a week go ahead. Not me!!It's their game if i have to buy belts every year i would.

Posted By: Jeepmon

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/21/15 06:23 PM

Quote:

I am sceptical about a re-cert every 2 years, but with everything I spend on my equipment, another $65 to have my belts done, is nothing.

For me.. and in my opinion, its not the amount of money I have to spend every two years.. its hassle to order, install, forget, having tech fail you because you forgot.. rip them out, order again.. wait for shipping.. re-install and then worrying about having to rinse and repeat next time..

I would be happy to pay $200-$300-$400 for a 5-year re-cert, just to avoid having to go thru this..

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/21/15 06:34 PM

Quote:

A $150 set of belts over 2 years works out to a cost of about $1.56 a week.

I look at it different- Due to work I get to go to the track (which is three hours away) once a year so it works out to $75 extra a year to make a single outing.

So.. two trips to the track and my belts which see daylight a few days a year are rubbish? Does this make any sense to anyone with a lick of common sense?

Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/21/15 09:29 PM

I have an out of date, $200 set of Simpson belts here, that have been down the track twice. 2 runs. Simpson won't do re-certs. I'm still not going to gripe about the rule.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/21/15 09:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

A $150 set of belts over 2 years works out to a cost of about $1.56 a week.

I look at it different- Due to work I get to go to the track (which is three hours away) once a year so it works out to $75 extra a year to make a single outing.

So.. two trips to the track and my belts which see daylight a few days a year are rubbish? Does this make any sense to anyone with a lick of common sense?

Frankly, that's not SFIs problem......its yours. What about the guy that makes over a 1000 runs a year and his dragster sits in the sun for 3 days every weekend while he is making those runs.........not to mention the constant pulling and tugging on those belts all those times. Are his belts still "perfect" after 2 years?.......maybe, maybe not. How "used" is strictly a judgement call and likely one that not many would trust to an average tech guy. In todays society, a guy crashes, belts fail, he dies. Litigation is going to say "well (insert name here) tech guy said belts were OK"........"his bad judgement, caused this guys death". Now while that COULD still happen with the current two year rule, what you are trying to do is take a "judgement call" on belt condition out of the equation. And for THAT reason alone......the two year rule is NOT going away

Most relate this rule to THEIR belts and the condition they are in after two years. Unfortunately, the condition of YOUR belts is of no concern. So, was the "testing" done on a "worst scenario" type condition.......yes, highly probable. But THAT is the conditions you have to base rules on, because obviously it could happen

Lets relate this to some recent NASCAR rulings. Guys have been crashing CUP cars HARD for 60 years and walking away without a scratch. Then we had a FEW basil skull fractures and guys died, notably Earnhardt. So NOW belt mounting practices are highly inspected and head and neck restraints are required, as well as full face helmets. I'm sure many were NOT happy with the helmet and neck restraint rules........but NASCAR is trying to be preventative and so is NHRA. Is it partially to cover their own azz.........well of course it is.........but it is also because, threat of litigation aside, NHRA does NOT want people hurt. Safety rules, as much as some want to argue about it, are NOT in place just to cost you money

Monte

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/21/15 10:43 PM

You guys are right, I'm wrong. I will now proudly pay for new belts every two years even if the rule sux. I hope the added funds go to something useful like drug testing to keep the pot users from taking hits on race day. And don't tell me this is not a problem because I see and hear about this weekly. Maybe a few bucks will go towards policing the "spray and slide" that is now so popular.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/21/15 11:09 PM

Quote:

Frankly, that's not SFIs problem......its yours.

No its NHRA's.

I don't have to race at their tracks any more than I will race at tracks that treat me like crap when I pull up to tech. I have not stepped foot at one track in particular for a decade who would break my balls on a regular basis but would see local guys waved through with obvious safety issues.

Vote with your wallet, this they understand clearly, the seatbelt rule is just another nail in the NHRA coffin. NHRA is already struggling just like NASCAR for a number of the same reasons. They are choking the life out of the sport with boring programs and stifling regulations.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 12:54 AM

IHRA tracks have the same rule too so its real hard to avoid.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 05:26 AM

Quote:

IHRA tracks have the same rule too so its real hard to avoid.

Yep......pretty much every drag racing organization there is, follows SFI rules on safety. Any track affiliated with these orgs is SUPPOSED to enforce the rules. Now whether they do or not is subject to debate. So this is NOT just an NHRA problem, seeing as every major and minor org uses the same rules. So the choice is follow the rules, stay home, or go to a track with no tech or affiliations.

Also why I said the petition was useless..............because guys are petitioning the WRONG people, as this has NOTHING to do with NHRA.

Monte

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 06:03 AM

You damn A well that the NHRA can accept or decline
any or all or the SFI rules or suggest anything they
want... they just go with the WHOLE SFI package..
I'm sure if SFI were to test 5 year old nasty looking
belts they would come up with the SAME failure rate
as nice looking new or 2 year old belts.. but companies
pay money to be SFI certed

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 06:57 AM

I understand that.........but WHY is it that NHRA is the only villain here. Where is the "up in arms" and threats against AHRA, IHRA, PDRA, NMCA, NMRA, ARCA, NTTPA, World of Outlaws and virtually EVERY other sanctioning body in the world. NHRA is just the EASY target and everybody wants to pile on. You see many here railing against the NHRA, yet praising how great the IHRA is on other threads........same rules

And of course companies pay to have their belts approved by SFI, if they didn't, who is going to buy them, seeing they wouldn't be legal anywhere.

Monte

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 07:05 AM

Quote:

I understand that.........but WHY is it that NHRA is the only villain here. Where is the "up in arms" and threats against AHRA, IHRA, PDRA, NMCA, NMRA, ARCA, NTTPA, World of Outlaws and virtually EVERY other sanctioning body in the world. NHRA is just the EASY target and everybody wants to pile on. You see many here railing against the NHRA, yet praising how great the IHRA is on other threads........same rules

And of course companies pay to have their belts approved by SFI, if they didn't, who is going to buy them, seeing they wouldn't be legal anywhere.

Monte

The IHRA doesnt hold to the 9.99 for the license..
but they pretty much else follow the NHRA rule book..
I would basically say they did that because it was there
and already in effect... and yes ANY of them could
and CAN say something else

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 11:26 AM

Quote:

You damn A well that the NHRA can accept or decline
any or all or the SFI rules or suggest anything they
want...

So.. does the Hellcat have an SFI balancer? Aftermarket axles? Trans shield? How about a rollbar?

Oh I see.

NHRA can do anything they want. If I build a low 11 second car, I'm required to have a rollbar but if I buy a Hellcat not so much.

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 05:32 PM

It more or less comes down to who you are and if they want you to come to there Track and race.The small tracks have to operate like the Big Time NHRA Tracks.Think about it they are not gonna throw JFR or DSR out if they bend the rules a little!
If no racers show up at the track to race,just how long are they going to stay in business?People sit back and tell us Racers nobody cares what we think or do,well if all of us stick together and do not race at there Tracks unless they have a Big NHRA or IHRA race to keep them in business with 15-20 cars showing up each week to race they go belly up!It has already been proven the Tracks can not only stay in business with just racers and only a hand full of spectators but do just fine.If they pack the stands with spectators and have no racers,things do not go very well for them.
I can not speak for anyone other than myself,but I am only going to race at the Tracks were they come up and tell me they are Glad to see me and Happy to have me there.Not some where where they think they are doing me a favor by letting me be there and want me to jump through hoops to please them.

Posted By: RO23dave

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 07:59 PM

One thing i fail to see anybody mention, and, i haven't verified it as fact, but wasn't the 2 year rule enacted due to NJ State Police, and, NJ Law requiring race cars to have belts current date within 2 years. Just my opinion, but, NHRA, couldn't just have NJ racers, replace belts, every 2 years, so just make it apply to all racers, so everybody is compliant. Example, if another racer, from another division, came to NJ, not knowing the rule, and, his division had a 5 year rule, he'd fail tech. So E-Town, and Atco, are the affected tracks. Just my

Dave ss/ea #1355

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 08:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:

You damn A well that the NHRA can accept or decline
any or all or the SFI rules or suggest anything they
want...

So.. does the Hellcat have an SFI balancer? Aftermarket axles? Trans shield? How about a rollbar?

Oh I see.

NHRA can do anything they want. If I build a low 11 second car, I'm required to have a rollbar but if I buy a Hellcat not so much.

What does factory cars have to do with ANYTHING........but to answer your question. You can do anything you want with your new Hellcat.......BUT, if you plan on running it at a sanctioned racetrack of ANY organization, it better meet safety standards.

You can go to the Suzuki dealer, plunk down your hard earned cash and ride that Hyabusa off the lot with no helmet, flip flops, shorts and no shirt. The salesman could care less about your dumb azz. Take it to the track and expect to ride it down and you will have a helmet, leathers and gloves or you DON'T go down........these are fairly simple concepts to grasp

Monte

Posted By: rickstershemi

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 08:33 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

You damn A well that the NHRA can accept or decline
any or all or the SFI rules or suggest anything they
want...

So.. does the Hellcat have an SFI balancer? Aftermarket axles? Trans shield? How about a rollbar?

Oh I see.

NHRA can do anything they want. If I build a low 11 second car, I'm required to have a rollbar but if I buy a Hellcat not so much.

What does factory cars have to do with ANYTHING........but to answer your question. You can do anything you want with your new Hellcat.......BUT, if you plan on running it at a sanctioned racetrack of ANY organization, it better meet safety standards.

You can go to the Suzuki dealer, plunk down your hard earned cash and ride that Hyabusa off the lot with no helmet, flip flops, shorts and no shirt. The salesman could care less about your dumb azz. Take it to the track and expect to ride it down and you will have a helmet, leathers and gloves or you DON'T go down........these are fairly simple concepts to grasp

Monte

I totally agree with the belt rule....but what is disconcerting is NHRA has ruled that SFI equipment in the newer models is not needed due to the safety features installed and in place from the Factories.....found this over on Class Racer...???? Just do a search over there.

Rickster

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 08:48 PM

Quote:

What does factory cars have to do with ANYTHING........

Clearly you are unaware that NHRA has waived certain rules for 2008 and up vehicles.

I have to have a rollbar in my GTX to run low 11's but Hellcats are exempt till 9.99

"Unaltered 2008 OEM model year and newer production cars running slower than 9.99 and 135 mph do not have to meet the requirements and specifications for the Summit Racing Series except for the following: Convertibles and T-tops must meet Summit Racing Series Roll Bar and Roll Cage requirements, All drivers must meet the Summit Racing Series Helmet and Protective Clothing requirements.�

Posted By: RMCHRGR

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 08:48 PM

Quote:

It more or less comes down to who you are and if they want you to come to there Track and race.The small tracks have to operate like the Big Time NHRA Tracks.Think about it they are not gonna throw JFR or DSR out if they bend the rules a little!
If no racers show up at the track to race,just how long are they going to stay in business?People sit back and tell us Racers nobody cares what we think or do,well if all of us stick together and do not race at there Tracks unless they have a Big NHRA or IHRA race to keep them in business with 15-20 cars showing up each week to race they go belly up!It has already been proven the Tracks can not only stay in business with just racers and only a hand full of spectators but do just fine.If they pack the stands with spectators and have no racers,things do not go very well for them.
I can not speak for anyone other than myself,but I am only going to race at the Tracks were they come up and tell me they are Glad to see me and Happy to have me there.Not some where where they think they are doing me a favor by letting me be there and want me to jump through hoops to please them.

So are you saying we should only race at some marginal, backwater track where we know the tech guys who let you slide? Just inferring that but that's kind of what it sounds like. Correct me if I am wrong.

Of course, NHRA cares about image and attendance at their events but not at the expense bodily harm or fatalities to their racers caused by compromised safety equipment.

Also, comparing weekend warrior/sportsman racers to an operation like Force or DSR is silly. Would you get into a Top Fuel car with out of date belts? I wouldn't. I bet they change harnesses and belts pretty often.

Regardless, those guys are subject to the rules just like everyone else. They can either comply or not but my guess is that it would be very costly for them NOT to be in compliance.

Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 09:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What does factory cars have to do with ANYTHING........

Clearly you are unaware that NHRA has waived certain rules for 2008 and up vehicles.

I have to have a rollbar in my GTX to run low 11's but Hellcats are exempt till 9.99

"Unaltered 2008 OEM model year and newer production cars running slower than 9.99 and 135 mph do not have to meet the requirements and specifications for the Summit Racing Series except for the following: Convertibles and T-tops must meet Summit Racing Series Roll Bar and Roll Cage requirements, All drivers must meet the Summit Racing Series Helmet and Protective Clothing requirements.�

Fairly certain if I had to choose i'd rather wreck a 2008+ newer model car on the strip over my own stuff with a rollcage and harnesses. I'd bet I walk away with less injuries.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 09:18 PM

Quote:

Fairly certain if I had to choose i'd rather wreck a 2008+ newer model car on the strip over my own stuff with a rollcage and harnesses.

So the guy with the 2007 car is just S.O.L. right?

Unequal application of the rules, aka NHRA doing what they want.

Good luck with that.

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 09:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

You damn A well that the NHRA can accept or decline
any or all or the SFI rules or suggest anything they
want...

So.. does the Hellcat have an SFI balancer? Aftermarket axles? Trans shield? How about a rollbar?

Oh I see.

NHRA can do anything they want. If I build a low 11 second car, I'm required to have a rollbar but if I buy a Hellcat not so much.

What does factory cars have to do with ANYTHING........but to answer your question. You can do anything you want with your new Hellcat.......BUT, if you plan on running it at a sanctioned racetrack of ANY organization, it better meet safety standards.

You can go to the Suzuki dealer, plunk down your hard earned cash and ride that Hyabusa off the lot with no helmet, flip flops, shorts and no shirt. The salesman could care less about your dumb azz. Take it to the track and expect to ride it down and you will have a helmet, leathers and gloves or you DON'T go down........these are fairly simple concepts to grasp

Monte

we will not be happy till you sign the petition so stop fighting us

Posted By: BradH

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 09:49 PM

Quote:

we will not be happy till you sign the petition so stop fighting us

Do you like poking aggitated grizzly bears, too?

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 09:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

It more or less comes down to who you are and if they want you to come to there Track and race.The small tracks have to operate like the Big Time NHRA Tracks.Think about it they are not gonna throw JFR or DSR out if they bend the rules a little!
If no racers show up at the track to race,just how long are they going to stay in business?People sit back and tell us Racers nobody cares what we think or do,well if all of us stick together and do not race at there Tracks unless they have a Big NHRA or IHRA race to keep them in business with 15-20 cars showing up each week to race they go belly up!It has already been proven the Tracks can not only stay in business with just racers and only a hand full of spectators but do just fine.If they pack the stands with spectators and have no racers,things do not go very well for them.
I can not speak for anyone other than myself,but I am only going to race at the Tracks were they come up and tell me they are Glad to see me and Happy to have me there.Not some where where they think they are doing me a favor by letting me be there and want me to jump through hoops to please them.

So are you saying we should only race at some marginal, backwater track where we know the tech guys who let you slide? Just inferring that but that's kind of what it sounds like. Correct me if I am wrong.

Of course, NHRA cares about image and attendance at their events but not at the expense bodily harm or fatalities to their racers caused by compromised safety equipment.

Also, comparing weekend warrior/sportsman racers to an operation like Force or DSR is silly. Would you get into a Top Fuel car with out of date belts? I wouldn't. I bet they change harnesses and belts pretty often.

Regardless, those guys are subject to the rules just like everyone else. They can either comply or not but my guess is that it would be very costly for them NOT to be in compliance.

Does this look like a marginal back water track to you?This is one of not just the Best Tracks in the South but the nation!Like I said its the Racer you are that dictates what you can & can't do.

Attached picture 8404784-mmp05.jpg

Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 09:56 PM

Quote:

You damn A well that the NHRA can accept or decline
any or all or the SFI rules or suggest anything they
want... they just go with the WHOLE SFI package.

And they will continue to do so.

2 words. Liability. Insurance.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 10:46 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

It more or less comes down to who you are and if they want you to come to there Track and race.The small tracks have to operate like the Big Time NHRA Tracks.Think about it they are not gonna throw JFR or DSR out if they bend the rules a little!
If no racers show up at the track to race,just how long are they going to stay in business?People sit back and tell us Racers nobody cares what we think or do,well if all of us stick together and do not race at there Tracks unless they have a Big NHRA or IHRA race to keep them in business with 15-20 cars showing up each week to race they go belly up!It has already been proven the Tracks can not only stay in business with just racers and only a hand full of spectators but do just fine.If they pack the stands with spectators and have no racers,things do not go very well for them.
I can not speak for anyone other than myself,but I am only going to race at the Tracks were they come up and tell me they are Glad to see me and Happy to have me there.Not some where where they think they are doing me a favor by letting me be there and want me to jump through hoops to please them.

So are you saying we should only race at some marginal, backwater track where we know the tech guys who let you slide? Just inferring that but that's kind of what it sounds like. Correct me if I am wrong.

Of course, NHRA cares about image and attendance at their events but not at the expense bodily harm or fatalities to their racers caused by compromised safety equipment.

Also, comparing weekend warrior/sportsman racers to an operation like Force or DSR is silly. Would you get into a Top Fuel car with out of date belts? I wouldn't. I bet they change harnesses and belts pretty often.

Regardless, those guys are subject to the rules just like everyone else. They can either comply or not but my guess is that it would be very costly for them NOT to be in compliance.

Does this look like a marginal back water track to you?This is one of not just the Best Tracks in the South but the nation!Like I said its the Racer you are that dictates what you can & can't do.

How could we tell ANYTHING about the track in question, from THAT tiny pic.........other than the fact that tech and safety take a back seat there, because they are allowing you to race a dragster with a t-shirt and no gloves. Or are you saying because of "who you are" they let you by with this.........Either way, sounds pretty "back water" to me............But I will take a shot......Montgomery?

And if that IS Montgomery......while a decent track, it is far from one of the nicest tracks in the nation. You need to get out more...............LOL!!!..........but Jackie DOES plant pretty flowers there..........LOL!!!

Monte

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 11:01 PM

I will throw another example of NHRA and IHRA lack of rule consistencies. Here I am running 8's or 9's with my certified chassis, window net, fire suit, neck collar, fire proof shoes, yada, yada, yada. Now we enter our Gamblers race at both NHRA and IHRA tracks and race against motorcycles. Bike against bike has a fair chance at survival, car against bike and something goes wrong how do you think that spells out. NOT SO GOOD FOR THE BIKER. But it goes on year after year at the same tracks were God forbid our seat belts are expired.

Were are the insurance companies on this policy.

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 11:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

It more or less comes down to who you are and if they want you to come to there Track and race.The small tracks have to operate like the Big Time NHRA Tracks.Think about it they are not gonna throw JFR or DSR out if they bend the rules a little!
If no racers show up at the track to race,just how long are they going to stay in business?People sit back and tell us Racers nobody cares what we think or do,well if all of us stick together and do not race at there Tracks unless they have a Big NHRA or IHRA race to keep them in business with 15-20 cars showing up each week to race they go belly up!It has already been proven the Tracks can not only stay in business with just racers and only a hand full of spectators but do just fine.If they pack the stands with spectators and have no racers,things do not go very well for them.
I can not speak for anyone other than myself,but I am only going to race at the Tracks were they come up and tell me they are Glad to see me and Happy to have me there.Not some where where they think they are doing me a favor by letting me be there and want me to jump through hoops to please them.

So are you saying we should only race at some marginal, backwater track where we know the tech guys who let you slide? Just inferring that but that's kind of what it sounds like. Correct me if I am wrong.

Of course, NHRA cares about image and attendance at their events but not at the expense bodily harm or fatalities to their racers caused by compromised safety equipment.

Also, comparing weekend warrior/sportsman racers to an operation like Force or DSR is silly. Would you get into a Top Fuel car with out of date belts? I wouldn't. I bet they change harnesses and belts pretty often.

Regardless, those guys are subject to the rules just like everyone else. They can either comply or not but my guess is that it would be very costly for them NOT to be in compliance.

Does this look like a marginal back water track to you?This is one of not just the Best Tracks in the South but the nation!Like I said its the Racer you are that dictates what you can & can't do.

How could we tell ANYTHING about the track in question, from THAT tiny pic.........other than the fact that tech and safety take a back seat there, because they are allowing you to race a dragster with a t-shirt and no gloves. Or are you saying because of "who you are" they let you by with this.........Either way, sounds pretty "back water" to me............But I will take a shot......Montgomery?

And if that IS Montgomery......while a decent track, it is far from one of the nicest tracks in the nation. You need to get out more...............LOL!!!..........but Jackie DOES plant pretty flowers there..........LOL!!!

Monte

Shame on you Monte trying to put down a Real Racer who races weekly most of the time,when your car has not been running since the "Roaring 60's"!

Racing now is not the same as it was back in the "Roaring 60's" LOL

PS Yea its real easy when you do not have a race car or one fast enough to need BS like the 2 year belt rules to set back and tell people what they do and don't need to buy.If $$$ is no object to you and you think we really need them so bad why do all of you not buy a set of belts and take them to the Track to be give out to the ones of us who you think should have them?

Posted By: Eric

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 11:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

What does factory cars have to do with ANYTHING........

Clearly you are unaware that NHRA has waived certain rules for 2008 and up vehicles.

I have to have a rollbar in my GTX to run low 11's but Hellcats are exempt till 9.99

"Unaltered 2008 OEM model year and newer production cars running slower than 9.99 and 135 mph do not have to meet the requirements and specifications for the Summit Racing Series except for the following: Convertibles and T-tops must meet Summit Racing Series Roll Bar and Roll Cage requirements, All drivers must meet the Summit Racing Series Helmet and Protective Clothing requirements.�

Fairly certain if I had to choose i'd rather wreck a 2008+ newer model car on the strip over my own stuff with a rollcage and harnesses. I'd bet I walk away with less injuries.

I'm fairly certain I would rather roll my Arrow at 150 than a Hellcat with no bars.....just my

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/22/15 11:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

It more or less comes down to who you are and if they want you to come to there Track and race.The small tracks have to operate like the Big Time NHRA Tracks.Think about it they are not gonna throw JFR or DSR out if they bend the rules a little!
If no racers show up at the track to race,just how long are they going to stay in business?People sit back and tell us Racers nobody cares what we think or do,well if all of us stick together and do not race at there Tracks unless they have a Big NHRA or IHRA race to keep them in business with 15-20 cars showing up each week to race they go belly up!It has already been proven the Tracks can not only stay in business with just racers and only a hand full of spectators but do just fine.If they pack the stands with spectators and have no racers,things do not go very well for them.
I can not speak for anyone other than myself,but I am only going to race at the Tracks were they come up and tell me they are Glad to see me and Happy to have me there.Not some where where they think they are doing me a favor by letting me be there and want me to jump through hoops to please them.

So are you saying we should only race at some marginal, backwater track where we know the tech guys who let you slide? Just inferring that but that's kind of what it sounds like. Correct me if I am wrong.

Of course, NHRA cares about image and attendance at their events but not at the expense bodily harm or fatalities to their racers caused by compromised safety equipment.

Also, comparing weekend warrior/sportsman racers to an operation like Force or DSR is silly. Would you get into a Top Fuel car with out of date belts? I wouldn't. I bet they change harnesses and belts pretty often.

Regardless, those guys are subject to the rules just like everyone else. They can either comply or not but my guess is that it would be very costly for them NOT to be in compliance.

Does this look like a marginal back water track to you?This is one of not just the Best Tracks in the South but the nation!Like I said its the Racer you are that dictates what you can & can't do.

How could we tell ANYTHING about the track in question, from THAT tiny pic.........other than the fact that tech and safety take a back seat there, because they are allowing you to race a dragster with a t-shirt and no gloves. Or are you saying because of "who you are" they let you by with this.........Either way, sounds pretty "back water" to me............But I will take a shot......Montgomery?

And if that IS Montgomery......while a decent track, it is far from one of the nicest tracks in the nation. You need to get out more...............LOL!!!..........but Jackie DOES plant pretty flowers there..........LOL!!!

Monte

Shame on you Monte trying to put down a Real Racer who races weekly most of the time,when your car has not been running since the "Roaring 60's"! Racing now is not the same as it was back in the "Roaring 60's" LOL

PS Yea its real easy when you do not have a race car or one fast enough to need BS like the 2 year belt rules to set back and tell people what they do and don't need to buy.If $$$ is no object to you and you think we really need them so bad why do all of you not buy a set of belts and take them to the Track to be give out to the ones of us who you think should have them?

What does ANY of that have to do with the fact that you CHOOSE to do something that you KNOW is unsafe and some how think that makes you look good. If YOU don't care about your OWN safety enough, to at least wear a damn jacket, do you think the guy in the other lane would think that you had any regard for HIS safety...........just a question.

You keep telling us about all this stuff you do to keep your stuff top notch, buy the best of the best and so forth, yet blatantly thumb your nose at the rules. Every pic you post and every statement you make, just enforces my point about a lot of these rules being in place to attempt to protect racers from themselves.........so carry on doing it "your way". Your fellow racers thank you for your support..........LOL!!!

Monte

Posted By: RMCHRGR

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 12:33 AM

Quote:

Like I said its the Racer you are that dictates what you can & can't do.

That's presumptuous.

Again, the pros are subject to rules just like lower level racers, probably more so than you even realize. Do you think the Top Fuel or Pro Stock teams are trying to save a few bucks by skimping on belts? Do you think they hand the tech guys a 100 bucks and say, aww let me slide this time... right.

Listen, everybody has their own ideas about what's best for them and racers especially never like being told how they should do things. We know that.

BUT, the one area that no one in their right mind would want to show blatant disregard for is safety. Last time I checked, nobody earns points, gets a trophy or a payout for dismissing safety requirements.

But let's say you do wreck and/or get hurt, die or hurt someone else and it's found to be due to blatant negligence. You'd get plenty of recognition for that!

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 12:39 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Like I said its the Racer you are that dictates what you can & can't do.

That's presumptuous.

Again, the pros are subject to rules just like lower level racers, probably more so than you even realize. Do you think the Top Fuel or Pro Stock teams are trying to save a few bucks by skimping on belts? Do you think they hand the tech guys a 100 bucks and say, aww let me slide this time... right.

Listen, everybody has their own ideas about what's best for them and racers especially never like being told how they should do things. We know that.

BUT, the one area that no one in their right mind would want to show blatant disregard for is safety. Last time I checked, nobody earns points, gets a trophy or a payout for dismissing safety requirements.

But let's say you do wreck and/or get hurt, die or hurt someone else and it's found to be due to blatant negligence. You'd get plenty of recognition for that!

PLEASE don't take this wrong but did you ever BUY a set of seat belts? It says your car runs 12.20's so I'm just kinda wonder where your input is coming from.

Posted By: jcc

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 12:50 AM

OK, so since we are told by those much smarter then all us pions, that belts suddenly fail at much greater rates? after 630 days. Who changes them after 365 days, just to be safe, since its only $XXX.oo?

What is frosting most is IMO, its not the cost, its the lack of logic, fairness, data, etc to back up the claim for 2 years re cert. If you think its important, prove it,, and let us move on. For instance, one of hundreds of examples, I suspect improper/inadequate seat mounting defeats the intended purpose of any 20+ year belt, but no one can make a profit from enforcing that requirement, and when was the last time anyone checked seat mounting while checking a seat belt expiration date. One with out the other is just safety theater.

Posted By: RMCHRGR

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 12:52 AM

Quote:

PLEASE don't take this wrong but did you ever BUY a set of seat belts? It says your car runs 12.20's so I'm just kinda wonder where your input is coming from.

Yep! Granted it's not a harness but they still expire in a year.

Attached picture 8404936-IMG_0480.JPG

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 12:58 AM

FWIW the rule on the 2008 and newer cars is for 100% STOCK UNMODIFIED cars. Of course it is up to the individual track to check and enforce that. So technically if you install a tuner, aftermarket air filter or exhaust you would not be allowed to violate any of the ET rules. Just sayin..

Also as Monte has pointed out numerous times this IS NOT an NHRA thing. It is SFI who set the standards not NHRA contrary to popular belief. But feel free to go ahead and continue to beat this dead horse to a pulp..

Posted By: tboomer

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 01:05 AM

Quote:

Also as Monte has pointed out numerous times this IS NOT an NHRA thing. It is SFI who set the standards not NHRA contrary to popular belief. But feel free to go ahead and continue to beat this dead horse to a pulp..

This...^^^^^^^^^^^

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 01:12 AM

Shame on you Monte trying to put down a Real Racer who races weekly most of the time,when your car has not been running since the "Roaring 60's"!

Monte,are you "Jealous"?

What the Hell do you care about the Rules anyway your cars has not run since the Roaring 60's?You can't even afford to get your race car up and race worthy to race and yet you set back and judge the ones of us who do race.

Get your Race Car running good enough for you to win races and then tell us and show us pictures of all the latest greatest SFI useless BS you have on your car!Because after you spend all of your hard earned $$$ to get your car race ready and NHRA adds something else for you to have to buy.....you are going to be Bitching just like the rest of us.Monte I already know you will repeat what you have been saying for years,you have more important better things to do with your $$$ than finish up your race car.....we have just as important things as you to spend our $$$ and it does not include buying a bunch of useless crap!
Yet still you dare to look down your nose at us because we do not buy what you or someone else who has no $$$ invested in our cars and I am Happy to repeat again while your car has not run since the "Roaring 60's"

As for me I will spend my $$$ on Go Fast Parts and instead of worrying about what someone else does or does not have on their car I will be focusing on how to beat them on the race track.
We need to be focusing on how to get more people out on the Race Tracks to help our dying Sport not how to keep people off the Race Track!

PS The Track owners and my fellow racers who do the same as me must not think I am breaking any rules or doing anything unsafe or they would not let me race!

Are you saying everyone else but you is wrong?

Attached picture 8404958-mmpbh01.jpg

Posted By: Biginchmopar

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 01:28 AM

Al and Monte are spot on. This deal is not going to get fixed by a petition. I have seen some real junk at the track and the tech guy lets them run because his belts are current the tubing on the roll bar is thick enough ect... the welding on the car is SH!T, there are parts falling off, the guy that owns it smokes while putting fuel into it ect... I try and stay away from those clowns.

Good Luck fellas I hope you get somewhere but I doubt it will happen.

Having safety rules are a good thing but some of the rules need to be looked at with real engineers to determine real renewal dates.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 01:38 AM

Quote:

FWIW the rule on the 2008 and newer cars is for 100% STOCK UNMODIFIED cars. Of course it is up to the individual track to check and enforce that. So technically if you install a tuner, aftermarket air filter or exhaust you would not be allowed to violate any of the ET rules. Just sayin..

Also as Monte has pointed out numerous times this IS NOT an NHRA thing. It is SFI who set the standards not NHRA contrary to popular belief. But feel free to go ahead and continue to beat this dead horse to a pulp..

Ok.. so maybe this should have been sent to the SFI
group.. but NHRA, IHRA or many others DONT have to
agree with their total package.. I would be MORE THAN
HAPPY to buy the belts every 2 years IF SFI could
PROVE to me any MANY OTHERS that a 5 years old set
of belts will fail at ANY HIGHER RATE than a 2 year
old set of belts... which are already throw away belts..
JUST HAVE THEM SHOW FACTS... pretty simple for us
peasants.... we can deal with FACT.. I know from
testing that I use to do... they cant in fact prove it..

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 01:44 AM

Quote:

What is frosting most is IMO, its not the cost, its the lack of logic, fairness, data, etc to back up the claim for 2 years re cert.

Exactly.

People keep throwing out the piss poor argument "full safety vs no safety" which simply isn't true. Everyone wants reasonable safety regulations, people are arguing if the one being discussed is reasonable or not.

Quote:

It is SFI who set the standards not NHRA contrary to popular belief.

That may or may not be true but SFI doesn't need to put asses in the seats, NHRA does. If race belts are failing (which I can't recall a case) in such a short period of time perhaps we should be outside belt manufacture facilities with pitchforks and torches. Clearly we are being sold junk.

The fact that NHRA will blatantly allow a Hellcat or Shelby Mustang or Corvette to run without safety equipment mandatory for everyone else speaks volumes.

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 02:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

What is frosting most is IMO, its not the cost, its the lack of logic, fairness, data, etc to back up the claim for 2 years re cert.

Exactly.

That may or may not be true but SFI doesn't need to put asses in the seats, NHRA does. If race belts are failing (which I can't recall a case) in such a short period of time perhaps we should be outside belt manufacture facilities with pitchforks and torches. Clearly we are being sold junk.

The fact that NHRA will blatantly allow a Hellcat or Shelby Mustang or Corvette to run without safety equipment mandatory for everyone else speaks volumes.

We have a bunch of Nay Sayers on here who are saying there is nothing we can do.......To them I say BS if we bow down and do everything we are told,then and only thing will there be nothing we can do.I say the petition is a good place to start voicing our opinions and if they turn a "Deaf Ear" to our petition...then we need to take it to the next step.What we don't need to do that so many Americans are doing today is give up and let others control our lives!If all of us Racers stick together NHRA & IHRA and the rest of the tracks have but 2 choices give us what we want or close the tracks!With that being said I think we do have a say.

PS I'm tried of some Clown Salesman sitting behind a computer thinking up useless things that are not needed to pad their pockets off us Racers!

Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 02:02 AM

Posted By: justinp61

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 02:05 AM

I would like to know who is on the board or committee of SFI that makes these rules. Do they have something to gain with the two year rule? I would gladly donate my two year belts to test against new ones to see where the failure point is.

Posted By: MOPARCRAZY

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 02:14 AM

Signed, thanks for the link

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 02:33 AM

Quote:

I would like to know who is on the board or committee of SFI that makes these rules. Do they have something to gain with the two year rule? I would gladly donate my two year belts to test against new ones to see where the failure point is.

I'm mailing mine into the NHRA HQ.

Perhaps if a few thousand of them show up in the mail they will get the message.

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 02:35 AM

Yeah cause this has NEVER been brought up before

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 02:36 AM

Google sfi and see exactly who makes up the foundation

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 03:26 AM

Quote:

Google sfi and see exactly who makes up the foundation

I did look up the testing specs but frankly they are vague.

SFI claims the thread used in race belts degrades and loses half its breaking strength in one year when continuously exposed to *outdoor exposure*.

1) Who leaves their racing seatbelts outside continuously?

2) There is no breaking strength listed just percentage. So how many pounds of force were required to break the belts? Is it still greater the human body can withstand? No data is provided.

I'd be of the opinion the testing is flawed since no one I'm aware of leaves seat belts continuously outside (this is SFI's terminology not mine) and if the thread is an issue then by god I'd spend extra for some thread that isn't junk.

Has anyone EVER seen a broken race belt? I have seen cars picked up with decades old passenger car belts.

Posted By: jcc

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 03:34 AM

"1) Who leaves their racing seatbelts outside continuously?"

SFI?

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 03:45 AM

Quote:

"1) Who leaves their racing seatbelts outside continuously?"

SFI?

For one thing.. it would have to be a rag top or a
altered dragster... and I dont know of any guy that
thinks of their race car like a piece of trash to
be UNCOVERED OUTSIDE... the sunlight is what I THINK
they are concerned with... but maybe just rot.. JMO
EDIT
in reality they should take 100 pair of nasty looking
5 year old belts and give them the SAME test..
show the data

Posted By: moparguy7074

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 04:26 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

What does factory cars have to do with ANYTHING........

Clearly you are unaware that NHRA has waived certain rules for 2008 and up vehicles.

I have to have a rollbar in my GTX to run low 11's but Hellcats are exempt till 9.99

"Unaltered 2008 OEM model year and newer production cars running slower than 9.99 and 135 mph do not have to meet the requirements and specifications for the Summit Racing Series except for the following: Convertibles and T-tops must meet Summit Racing Series Roll Bar and Roll Cage requirements, All drivers must meet the Summit Racing Series Helmet and Protective Clothing requirements.�

Fairly certain if I had to choose i'd rather wreck a 2008+ newer model car on the strip over my own stuff with a rollcage and harnesses. I'd bet I walk away with less injuries.

I'm fairly certain I would rather roll my Arrow at 150 than a Hellcat with no bars.....just my

At 150 mph the Hellcat would have to have the safety equipment too...

Posted By: moparguy7074

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 04:30 AM

Quote:

FWIW the rule on the 2008 and newer cars is for 100% STOCK UNMODIFIED cars. Of course it is up to the individual track to check and enforce that. So technically if you install a tuner, aftermarket air filter or exhaust you would not be allowed to violate any of the ET rules. Just sayin..

Al, not trying to stir the pot, but isn't this rule just for the chassis/body? I didn't check it recently, but I thought that's what it said. Not that a Hellcat would need modified.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 04:37 AM

Quote:

Quote:

FWIW the rule on the 2008 and newer cars is for 100% STOCK UNMODIFIED cars. Of course it is up to the individual track to check and enforce that. So technically if you install a tuner, aftermarket air filter or exhaust you would not be allowed to violate any of the ET rules. Just sayin..

Al, not trying to stir the pot, but isn't this rule just for the chassis/body? I didn't check it recently, but I thought that's what it said. Not that a Hellcat would need modified.

The way I read the rule its as Al said.... STOCK
unmodified

Posted By: Stroker Scamp

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 06:07 AM

I didn't sign the petition because I believe in the old phrase "you cant find city hall"
I don't agree that the belts are junk after 2 years either, I don't race much and as a fact when I bought my belts when I built the Scamp.
The car wasn't finished so the belts sat on the shelf for a year and a half in the box.
Got it to the track and had only 6 months on the certification.
This is why people are pissed, show us some real data on why they go bad so quick

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 06:34 AM

4796 signed since Sunday.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 07:43 AM

Quote:

Shame on you Monte trying to put down a Real Racer who races weekly most of the time,when your car has not been running since the "Roaring 60's"! Racing now is not the same as it was back in the "Roaring 60's" LOL

PS Yea its real easy when you do not have a race car or one fast enough to need BS like the 2 year belt rules to set back and tell people what they do and don't need to buy.If $$$ is no object to you and you think we really need them so bad why do all of you not buy a set of belts and take them to the Track to be give out to the ones of us who you think should have them?

Monte,are you "Jealous"?

Are you saying everyone else but you is wrong?

No Billy.......I'm not saying everybody else is wrong.......I am saying YOU are wrong. If you think it is perfectly acceptable to drive a 4 sec dragster, with no jacket, no gloves, presumably no fire pants or fire shoes(but I can't tell in pic)and no arm restraints.....then there is no need for us to continue, because your idea of what is "safe" and mine are two entirely different things. But I guess since the track "LETS" you do it....it's all good right...........well carry on brother, you're looking good here................LOL!!

And for clarification, my car is a 69........I bought it in the 80s and raced it until 2001. I was 7 at the end of the "roaring 60s", so I don't know much about that.

Monte

Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 07:44 AM

Quote:

Yeah cause this has NEVER been brought up before

The guys on this site would argue about free lottery tickets!

Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 07:46 AM

Quote:

4796 signed since Sunday.

NHRA is like Comcast, they don't care about you. Either play by their rules or go somewhere else....Oh wait IHRA has the same rules!

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 07:51 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Yeah cause this has NEVER been brought up before

The guys on this site would argue about free lottery tickets!

I know right???..........but sometimes it is just to see what kind of crazy shizzit somebody is going to say and I haven't been disappointed........LOL!!!

It's like a train wreck.....you know you should look away, but you just can't..........LOL

Monte

Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 07:57 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Yeah cause this has NEVER been brought up before

The guys on this site would argue about free lottery tickets!

I know right???..........but sometimes it is just to see what kind of crazy shizzit somebody is going to say and I haven't been disappointed........LOL!!!

It's like a train wreck.....you know you should look away, but you just can't..........LOL

Monte

now you know why my dart is parked and I race the other 2 cars

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 03:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:

4796 signed since Sunday.

NHRA is like Comcast, they don't care about you. Either play by their rules or go somewhere else....Oh wait IHRA has the same rules!

Oh I play by the rules but that doesn't mean I have to like it and stand in line like the rest of the sheep. I'm not a team car like some members and do all of my own maintenance and purchases so its more of a pain in the butt issue than it is money. Charge me 20 dollars more for a BETTER product and extend it to 5 years. Where I worked as a Millwright for 33 years we were continually striving for better products at lower costs. We too would have never made it thru the 80's and would have closed shop like many other steel mills. Think about it.

Posted By: 70AARcuda

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 03:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

4796 signed since Sunday.

NHRA is like Comcast, they don't care about you. Either play by their rules or go somewhere else....Oh wait IHRA has the same rules!

Actually NHRA is like the Federal Govt....they know what is best for you....

Posted By: justinp61

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 04:52 PM

Quote:

Actually NHRA is like the Federal Govt....they know what is best for you....

Right��right, you see where that's got us.

Posted By: jcc

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 07:05 PM

Quote:

Quote:

4796 signed since Sunday.

NHRA is like Comcast, they don't care about you. Either play by their rules or go somewhere else....Oh wait IHRA has the same rules!

History is full of examples of this kind of blind arrogant thinking, right to the end, and most are now kaput, bankrupt, long gone, forgotten, inconsequential, surpassed, out foxed, beat, buried, closed, etc. It just takes time

Posted By: mprhound

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 07:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Google sfi and see exactly who makes up the foundation

I did look up the testing specs but frankly they are vague.

SFI claims the thread used in race belts degrades and loses half its breaking strength in one year when continuously exposed to *outdoor exposure*.

1) Who leaves their racing seatbelts outside continuously?

2) There is no breaking strength listed just percentage. So how many pounds of force were required to break the belts? Is it still greater the human body can withstand? No data is provided.

I'd be of the opinion the testing is flawed since no one I'm aware of leaves seat belts continuously outside (this is SFI's terminology not mine) and if the thread is an issue then by god I'd spend extra for some thread that isn't junk.

Has anyone EVER seen a broken race belt? I have seen cars picked up with decades old passenger car belts.

Maybe the manufactures need to improve their product and use a thread that does not degrade, if this material is more expensive, but gives you a 5 year lifetime on belts get sfi to make a new spec for these belts. At least you would be through with the hassle part, maybe even keep the current material and spec for those that did not want to spend the extra cash.

Posted By: Eric

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 08:11 PM

I'll let you guys imagine how much fun it is to change belts in a ride as tight as the Arrow..

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 08:28 PM

Quote:

I'll let you guys imagine how much fun it is to change belts in a ride as tight as the Arrow..

I hear ya. Its not like we have 5 guys on our race teams like some guys.

Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 09:30 PM

Quote:

I'll let you guys imagine how much fun it is to change belts in a ride as tight as the Arrow..

I think 'tight' is the key word here....

Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 10:18 PM

How many of the ones who think this petition is such a great idea have been at the track when someone was killed? How many have a friend who was a great guy and had a successful business, but now can't feed or dress themselves? How many have had to help clean up the mess when someone crippled themselves by wrecking a piece of crap with too much horsepower?

The only time any motor sports are mentioned in the main stream press is when somebody gets killed or crippled. Great image. No wonder John Q. Public thinks we're a bunch of hilljacks, rednecks, and borderline retards. You Tube is full of stupid crap. That's real helpful for those who are trying to run a clean, buttoned down operation and get some support for it.

It's taken a lot of people getting hurt and killed over the years to end up with the rules we have, and frankly, I can't believe we are having this conversation over a $65 set of seat belts. Really?

This chart is from the SFI website. Now you can tell me about picking cars up at the junkyard by the belts or the flawed testing process, but until you show me your engineering degree and your own test results proving this wrong, I don't care.

Now if they started a petition to encourage the sanctions to crack down on tracks that have zero tech, let junk go down the track and people to kill and cripple themselves due to their own stupidity, I'll sign that one. That would be infinitely more helpful for everyone.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 10:24 PM

So you don't think companies should work towards making a better product

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 11:09 PM

Quote:

This chart is from the SFI website.

Yes, note it states "outdoor exposure."

You leave your belts outside 24/7 for 2 years? It doesn't take someone with a degree to point out how absurd this is.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/23/15 11:50 PM

Quote:

How many of the ones who think this petition is such a great idea have been at the track when someone was killed? How many have a friend who was a great guy and had a successful business, but now can't feed or dress themselves? How many have had to help clean up the mess when someone crippled themselves by wrecking a piece of crap with too much horsepower?

The only time any motor sports are mentioned in the main stream press is when somebody gets killed or crippled. Great image. No wonder John Q. Public thinks we're a bunch of hilljacks, rednecks, and borderline retards. You Tube is full of stupid crap. That's real helpful for those who are trying to run a clean, buttoned down operation and get some support for it.

It's taken a lot of people getting hurt and killed over the years to end up with the rules we have, and frankly, I can't believe we are having this conversation over a $65 set of seat belts. Really?

This chart is from the SFI website. Now you can tell me about picking cars up at the junkyard by the belts or the flawed testing process, but until you show me your engineering degree and your own test results proving this wrong, I don't care.

Now if they started a petition to encourage the sanctions to crack down on tracks that have zero tech, let junk go down the track and people to kill and cripple themselves due to their own stupidity, I'll sign that one. That would be infinitely more helpful for everyone.

If I were allowed to take data with me when I retired
I'd be more than happy to show you data that contradicts
this.... but Chrysler doesnt allow data to be taken...
but even with 2" belts they last for YEARS in a car...
otherwise they would fail impact and warranty

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 12:02 AM

Quote:

I'll let you guys imagine how much fun it is to change belts in a ride as tight as the Arrow..

i know, and it's not fun

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 12:46 AM

Quote:

Quote:

This chart is from the SFI website.

Yes, note it states "outdoor exposure."

You leave your belts outside 24/7 for 2 years? It doesn't take someone with a degree to point out how absurd this is.

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 01:07 AM

Quote:

How many of the ones who think this petition is such a great idea have been at the track when someone was killed? How many have a friend who was a great guy and had a successful business, but now can't feed or dress themselves? How many have had to help clean up the mess when someone crippled themselves by wrecking a piece of crap with too much horsepower?

The only time any motor sports are mentioned in the main stream press is when somebody gets killed or crippled. Great image. No wonder John Q. Public thinks we're a bunch of hilljacks, rednecks, and borderline retards. You Tube is full of stupid crap. That's real helpful for those who are trying to run a clean, buttoned down operation and get some support for it.

It's taken a lot of people getting hurt and killed over the years to end up with the rules we have, and frankly, I can't believe we are having this conversation over a $65 set of seat belts. Really?

This chart is from the SFI website. Now you can tell me about picking cars up at the junkyard by the belts or the flawed testing process, but until you show me your engineering degree and your own test results proving this wrong, I don't care.

Now if they started a petition to encourage the sanctions to crack down on tracks that have zero tech, let junk go down the track and people to kill and cripple themselves due to their own stupidity, I'll sign that one. That would be infinitely more helpful for everyone.

Where is your proof that this graph was done by someone with an engineering degree? Some clown on a computer could have drawed that graph up on a computer to show what they wanted it to show!You have heard Mr_P say that he had done test on belts as well as others and none of us believe that our belts need replacing after 2 years.Do you have any kind of degree that says you know more than the rest of us on here?

Posted By: jcc

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 01:41 AM

But I use SPF 50 on my belts, and a sweater when its cold, and I heard that heat also effects the strength.

Boy those engineers (graphic artists) sure know how to keep us scared.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 01:48 AM

They have the dog poop scared out of me. I am going to J.C.Penny's and buying a new set of water proof long johns so I can cut the legs off and slip them over my precious seat belts.

Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 01:58 AM

Nope, no engineering degree. I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. But I can show you papers written by engineers and experts in the textile industry confirming that information. Google is your friend. Harness manufactures and SFI have to rely on the people who make the webbing (Dupont) for this information. They can't just make it up.

The 16.1 harness is required in most everything running quicker than 11.50 up to and including Pro Stock and even the fuel classes with the addition of a few mounting points. I would expect the standards to be more stringent for a harness expected to do its job in a 300+ MPH application. Overkill for an 11 second car? Probably. But having 1 spec, instead of multiple specs depending on ET with the resulting confusion, is OK with me. If it was a lot of money, that would be different. You can buy belts for $70.

And I have known guys who had no garage and had their race car sitting on an open trailer beside their house year round. Designers and engineers have to consider worst case situations. Sitting out in the sun in a car in south Florida year round. 300lb. dude driving his Pro Mod into the wall at 260. Any idea of the load put on the restraint system in that scenario?

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 02:20 AM

You stuff a 300 lb dude in a Pro-Mod car its not gonna be about keeping him in the car its gonna be more about getting his fat butt back out of the car!

A Pro-Mod sitting out behind a shop a year...no way after about 2 weeks some Jack A$$ will be long gone with it!

Maybe in the "Good O'll Day's you could have left your race car sitting out behind the shop year round,but in the present you can't even leave your oil drain pan out behind the shop with out someone stealing it!I would like to see the SFI make some belts where you could leave your race car sitting behind the shop year round that some thief could not cut and steal your race car!

Posted By: rickstershemi

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 02:49 AM

Go to any big money five-day bracket race and you will find dragsters and roadsters sitting outside in the sun all day long for the entire week....covered with tarps only over-night....some of these teams carry 4-5 dragsters in a trailer....they don't put them away every night....they would rather party

And these guys race week after week chasing the big buck races....they get their share of wear&tear

Rickster

Posted By: dvw

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 02:50 AM

How come passenger car seat belts are safe for over 2 years? The number of potential lawsuits for passenger cars would be infinite compared to the number of racecar related lawsuits. A weak belt is a weak belt regardless if the crash is at 80 mph or over 100 mph. Are a new Hellcats belts unsafe after 2 years? They're still legal. If the belts were only 20% efficient after 2 years would production car use them, possibly. A point that hasn't been discussed is this. Do 20% belts still exceed the necessary strength to retain the driver safely?
Doug

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 02:59 AM

Sooooo Dupont saids the belts are only good for 2 years and Dupont makes more money because of it. Imagine that.

That's exactly what I read when I googled SFI. The voice that dictates is the hand that produces. There you have it. By the way underwear over two years old should be replaced according to reports released by Hanes.

Posted By: Bill_T

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 03:14 AM

It appears that the manufacturers themselves supply the funding for SFI (started with SEMA). Is the fox guarding the hen house?

Note the phrasing in the negative of 16.1:

"2.12 The useful life of the webbing in the straps shall not exceed two years and they must be replaced at or before that time. Only the original manufacturer can re-web an assembly prior to re-certifying."

Why not: "the useful life of the webbing shall be not less than x years....."

Check the Disclaimer:

"14.0 STATEMENT OF LIMITATIONS
Testing procedures and/or standards contained in this specification are intended for use only as a guide in determining compliance with the minimum performance requirements as defined herein. The granting and assignment of the "This Manufacturer Certifies That This
Product Meets SFI Specification 16. 1" logo/designation is in no way an endorsement or certification of product performance or reliability by SFI. SFI, its officers, directors and/or members assume no responsibility, legal or otherwise, for failure or malfunctions of a product under this program."

SAE could propound an aftermarket belt or racing standard. They have a number of seat belt standards already. No reason NHRA couldn't petition and adopt that instead....

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 03:50 AM

"14.0 STATEMENT OF LIMITATIONS
Testing procedures and/or standards contained in this specification are intended for use only as a guide in determining compliance with the minimum performance requirements as defined herein. The granting and assignment of the "This Manufacturer Certifies That This
Product Meets SFI Specification 16. 1" logo/designation is in no way an endorsement or certification of product performance or reliability by SFI. SFI, its officers, directors and/or members assume no responsibility, legal or otherwise, for failure or malfunctions of a product under this program."

SAE could propound an aftermarket belt or racing standard. They have a number of seat belt standards already. No reason NHRA couldn't petition and adopt that instead....

Yes indeed... why not use the SAE standards... a
auto company runs MILLIONS more cars with the SAE
standard on the belts... we have to have them last
in most cases(and longer) 10 years(that is the warranty)
for most cars when it comes to the safety... the
saferty equipment in production cars is longer than
the engine/chassis warranty.... can you imagine the
law suits any car company would have with a seat belt
failure..a failure there is easy to spot.. I've been
to court cases for Chrysler on fuel related cases
and in those the belts were still in tact(fire)..
yes they may have melted after the car was sitting
there burning... but still in tact ... just saying

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 05:11 AM

Frankly factory belt specs really don't matter. They are NEVER tight, except in the case of an impact, which may be never. They are not pulled and tugged on through tightening clamps hundreds of times. They are not stressed at the point of attachment, at some odd angles and they are NOT designed to keep YOU and your SEAT, anchored in a car in the event of a high speed........like 200+ mph impact. The vast majority of "street" accidents are at speeds of 40 mph or less. The majority of racing accidents are at speeds in excess of 100mph.

Simple question......if your "street" car were capable of the speeds that your "race" car is, would you be confident in your factory restraint system keeping you in the car, in the event of a high speed crash. If your answer to that is yes.........well I guess that makes you a much braver man than me. Because my answer would be HELL NO. And I don't car if you can pick up a Sherman tank with a stock seat belt......I wouldn't trust it in my race car. Somebody mentioned junkyards pulling motors with stock seat belts..........well I would HOPE so, seeing the average small block is less than 600lbs. When we used to go "junking" all the time, I have pulled motors with some old pieces of rope we found lying around. You know what that means......NOTHING.......unless of course that signifies that we should trust a piece of old rope to be "good enough".........after all, you can pull a motor with it.

Monte

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 05:23 AM

Quote:

Frankly factory belt specs really don't matter. They are NEVER tight, except in the case of an impact, which may be never. They are not pulled and tugged on through tightening clamps hundreds of times. They are not stressed at the point of attachment, at some odd angles and they are NOT designed to keep YOU and your SEAT, anchored in a car in the event of a high speed........like 200+ mph impact. The vast majority of "street" accidents are at speeds of 40 mph or less. The majority of racing accidents are at speeds in excess of 100mph.

Simple question......if your "street" car were capable of the speeds that your "race" car is, would you be confident in your factory restraint system keeping you in the car, in the event of a high speed crash. If your answer to that is yes.........well I guess that makes you a much braver man than me. Because my answer would be HELL NO. And I don't car if you can pick up a Sherman tank with a stock seat belt......I wouldn't trust it in my race car. Somebody mentioned junkyards pulling motors with stock seat belts..........well I would HOPE so, seeing the average small block is less than 600lbs. When we used to go "junking" all the time, I have pulled motors with some old pieces of rope we found lying around. You know what that means......NOTHING.......unless of course that signifies that we should trust a piece of old rope to be "good enough".........after all, you can pull a motor with it.

Monte

Monte... maybe you dont know what the hell your talking
about... BELTS are a containment system.. in your
street car or race car... a street car uses a 2" system
and the race car uses a 3" system... both do the SAME
damn job... the cage keeps you from the big hurt..
I quit.... whether I were to supply you with data
I would be full of SH!T...as usual you MUST be right...
BUT I totally disagree

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 05:40 AM

Monte.. lets do this a different way.. a 3" belt has
more stretch over a 2" belt... do you agree.. in a
race car you are wearing 4.. 3" belts and a 2" dive
strap.. do you agree.. in a street car you wear a
lap belt of 2" and a single 2" shoulder belt... this
simple system keeps a person in the car on impact...
as does the 3" system... the cage is what keeps the
big hurt off of us.. both in a street car or the
race car... the belt keeps you in the seat.. and
if the seat mounting is wimpy you STILL get hurt..
but yet no one puts the big value on this(NHRA OR
SFI)

Posted By: jcc

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 06:19 AM

If this "outdoor Exposure" is such a problem,
and it seems according to the supplied chart that deterioration is fairly linear,
and it seems most here do not have much, if any "outdoor exposure",
and those same people feel a 2 year life cycle in their own case is therefore foolish,

Why not incorporate a tattletale UV exposure color changing thread/strip/indicator? into the belt and make it a simple pass/fail, and no longer time based?

I'm sure the technology exists.

Oh I forgot, no money to be made.

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 06:26 AM

Quote:

Go to any big money five-day bracket race and you will find dragsters and roadsters sitting outside in the sun all day long for the entire week....covered with tarps only over-night....some of these teams carry 4-5 dragsters in a trailer....they don't put them away every night....they would rather party

And these guys race week after week chasing the big buck races....they get their share of wear&tear

Rickster

Have you got a dragster???? I have 2 of them a 2012 & 2014 both purpose built T/D,and have owned dragsters since 1990 and can tell you 1st hand you can not leave the cage & seat uncovered all day in the hot sun or the seat,steering wheel and every daymn thing else will be so hot you can not set down in them or touch anything!Most times at the Big $$$ Bracket Races we carry 2 dragsters & 3 door-cars and put all 5 of them back in the trailers.And I have never noticed people leaving their cars out all night while they are gone partying!But to be honest I have never rode through the pits at night to see if anyone has left there cars out.But I do know this for certain you let a dragster set out in the hot sun very long when you set your a$$ down it,it will be like putting an egg in a hot frying fan. Ask me how I know that.

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 06:30 AM

I have to ask how many of you racers come back and put your cars back in the shop or leave them in your enclosed trailer and take the belts out of them and throw them outside on the ground till next week?That is the only way I see them being in direct sun light 24 7 365 days a year.

Posted By: MadMopars

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 06:39 AM

Quote:

Quote:

But I do know this for certain you let a dragster set out in the hot sun very long when you set your a$$ down it,it will be like putting an egg in a hot frying fan. Ask me how I know that.

Is it because your track let's you race in cut off shorts? Sorry, couldn't resist.

Posted By: dvw

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 06:41 AM

I'll buy that the 3" race belts are better than the factory 2" belts. Though I highly doubt the factory attachment systems that are tested over and over, built with crush zones are not as good. But that's all a moot point. Why do the threads and material go bad in racecar belts from exposure while pass car belts don't? Do you think if they failed after 2 years of exposure the National Highway Traffic Safety administration would allow the auto company's to build cars with them??????????????? Can you say recall? Maybe the rule will stay, maybe not. What happened when the NHRA was going to require window nets to be replaced every 2 years, same materials, thread and exposure. It was rescinded. Apparently the fact that nets are in the window causes them to last longer,LOL. The rule is wrong plain and simple.
Doug

Posted By: moparx

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 02:54 PM

what is the webbing material[and thread] for [car and or load] tie downs made from, and what is the DOT expiration[if any] ? i'm not talking cheap, offshore harbor freight stuff. these see more abusive use than any seat belt ever will. i know most of the belt material is stiffer than seat belt webbing, but what about the thread used ? if thread degradation is the main issue, and the thread used on tie downs is superior, couldn't this be a good argument to extend the replacement cycle ?

Posted By: justinp61

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 03:34 PM

This is a direct copy from an e mail question I asked SFI. IMO if the material is only good for two years USE A BETTER MATERIAL!

"The life of the harness certification is due to the known properties of webbing and the relatively rapid degradation over time. There have been many studies, including those by the U.S. Army, the NTSB, Industry associations, and SFI. Some of these studies are summarized in the attached document."

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 05:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

But I do know this for certain you let a dragster set out in the hot sun very long when you set your a$$ down it,it will be like putting an egg in a hot frying fan. Ask me how I know that.

Is it because your track let's you race in cut off shorts? Sorry, couldn't resist.

I would prefer you did not admire my legs. I know what you meant thats what racing all about "The Thrill,The Fun and Hopes Of Winning" If it ever gets to the point and it has been there before that I no longer have fun and enjoy racing,that when I will quit racing,if anything is no fun I'm no longer going to do it!

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 05:23 PM

I just don't believe when we tighten down our belts we put any stress what so ever on them big 3" belts like some suggest.Think about it you want them snug,but do you think you could stand the pressure if someone grab them and pulled them tight enough to come any where close to doing any damage to them.
If anyone thinks they can stand the pressure I will be more than happy to snug their belts up on them.

Posted By: GY3

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 05:37 PM

Quote:

By the way underwear over two years old should be replaced according to reports released by Hanes.

Underwear should never be thought of as a safety device...

A containment device, maybe...

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 05:37 PM

Quote:

This is a direct copy from an e mail question I asked SFI. IMO if the material is only good for two years USE A BETTER MATERIAL!

"The life of the harness certification is due to the known properties of webbing and the relatively rapid degradation over time. There have been many studies, including those by the U.S. Army, the NTSB, Industry associations, and SFI. Some of these studies are summarized in the attached document."

Perhaps they should use the same thread as the factory belts (Ford, Chrysler, GM) as they don't see to degrade in 2 years.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 05:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Frankly factory belt specs really don't matter. They are NEVER tight, except in the case of an impact, which may be never. They are not pulled and tugged on through tightening clamps hundreds of times. They are not stressed at the point of attachment, at some odd angles and they are NOT designed to keep YOU and your SEAT, anchored in a car in the event of a high speed........like 200+ mph impact. The vast majority of "street" accidents are at speeds of 40 mph or less. The majority of racing accidents are at speeds in excess of 100mph.

Simple question......if your "street" car were capable of the speeds that your "race" car is, would you be confident in your factory restraint system keeping you in the car, in the event of a high speed crash. If your answer to that is yes.........well I guess that makes you a much braver man than me. Because my answer would be HELL NO. And I don't car if you can pick up a Sherman tank with a stock seat belt......I wouldn't trust it in my race car. Somebody mentioned junkyards pulling motors with stock seat belts..........well I would HOPE so, seeing the average small block is less than 600lbs. When we used to go "junking" all the time, I have pulled motors with some old pieces of rope we found lying around. You know what that means......NOTHING.......unless of course that signifies that we should trust a piece of old rope to be "good enough".........after all, you can pull a motor with it.

Monte

Monte... maybe you dont know what the hell your talking
about... BELTS are a containment system.. in your
street car or race car... a street car uses a 2" system
and the race car uses a 3" system... both do the SAME
damn job... the cage keeps you from the big hurt..
I quit.... whether I were to supply you with data
I would be full of SH!T...as usual you MUST be right...
BUT I totally disagree

You didn't answer my question...........In the event of a high speed crash, at "track" speeds, do you think the "containment" system in your everyday car would be good enough to keep you and the seat in place...........simple question with a yes or no answer.

Monte

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 06:00 PM

I leave my belts outside but it rains every damn day so theyre still good

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 06:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Frankly factory belt specs really don't matter. They are NEVER tight, except in the case of an impact, which may be never. They are not pulled and tugged on through tightening clamps hundreds of times. They are not stressed at the point of attachment, at some odd angles and they are NOT designed to keep YOU and your SEAT, anchored in a car in the event of a high speed........like 200+ mph impact. The vast majority of "street" accidents are at speeds of 40 mph or less. The majority of racing accidents are at speeds in excess of 100mph.

Simple question......if your "street" car were capable of the speeds that your "race" car is, would you be confident in your factory restraint system keeping you in the car, in the event of a high speed crash. If your answer to that is yes.........well I guess that makes you a much braver man than me. Because my answer would be HELL NO. And I don't car if you can pick up a Sherman tank with a stock seat belt......I wouldn't trust it in my race car. Somebody mentioned junkyards pulling motors with stock seat belts..........well I would HOPE so, seeing the average small block is less than 600lbs. When we used to go "junking" all the time, I have pulled motors with some old pieces of rope we found lying around. You know what that means......NOTHING.......unless of course that signifies that we should trust a piece of old rope to be "good enough".........after all, you can pull a motor with it.

Monte

Monte... maybe you dont know what the hell your talking
about... BELTS are a containment system.. in your
street car or race car... a street car uses a 2" system
and the race car uses a 3" system... both do the SAME
damn job... the cage keeps you from the big hurt..
I quit.... whether I were to supply you with data
I would be full of SH!T...as usual you MUST be right...
BUT I totally disagree

You didn't answer my question...........In the event of a high speed crash, at "track" speeds, do you think the "containment" system in your everyday car would be good enough to keep you and the seat in place...........simple question with a yes or no answer.

Monte

I would say yes.... you seem to think you are hitting
something at 200 mph... no one pulled a concrete
wall out into the middle of the lane...you are hitting
at some angle(unknown) so the actual impact speed
might be 100 mph(just a number) but it isnt a head
on crash.. so yes I believe the standard 2" belts
would keep the driver in the seat

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 06:27 PM

I will have to agree with Mr_P as it is not uncommon for someone in a passenger car to be running 60-70 mph and some idiot coming from the other direction be running 60-70 mph and veer into there lane and hit them head on and that would be equal to 120-140 mph head on crash into a concrete wall......"And It Happens All The Time"!And more passenger cars are left out in the sun than race cars and yet the 2" factory belts are good for life,no need to ever replace!

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 06:40 PM

The more I give this subject more thought the more I think were getting screwed so seat belt manufactures can keep cranking out belts.

If the thread is subpar then use a better grade of thread. This of course would reduce sales if the date is extended to 5 years.

The car manufactures clearly are making a quality seat belt as they would be sued into oblivion if they did not and someone was injured and a belt was to blame.

As always, follow the money.

How many people are using tie downs and tow straps from the same thread? The only ones I have ever seen damaged were from cuts & abrasion from years of use and abuse.

Pulling on belts cause them to be worn out? Get real. A lovers kiss compared the banging around some belts see in circle track cars. I have a buddy who raced short track cars and he would have bruises from the belts and wall impacts.

I guess I should throw out my hold down straps every two years if they are made from the same thread, after all SFI claims the material is junk after two years. I guess I'm really pushing my luck with 6 year old straps holding down a 4000 pound car.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 06:46 PM

A 2" belt has plenty of strength to do what they are
called to do... the reason for the 3" belt is to spread
the load out on the persons body

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 06:56 PM

The solution is simple and been pointed out numerous times. DONT RACE or find a nice little outlaw track to run at. We know one person posting loves to run at places where safety is not a big concern and a couple of the others posting seldom if ever hit a race track. This is getting a bit old and if a $70 set of seatbelts every couple of years is what keeps you from racing then for gods sake FIND A NEW HOBBIE

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 07:01 PM

Quote:

The solution is simple and been pointed out numerous times. DONT RACE or find a nice little outlaw track to run at. We know one person posting loves to run at places where safety is not a big concern and a couple of the others posting seldom if ever hit a race track. This is getting a bit old and if a $70 set of seatbelts every couple of years is what keeps you from racing then for gods sake FIND A NEW HOBBIE

This is not the problem/issue at all... the thing
that some are TRYING to do is get the time frame
changed... I myself dont see ANY problem trying to
do it... if you never try.. it sure wont ever happen

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 07:11 PM

Quote:

The solution is simple and been pointed out numerous times. DONT RACE or find a nice little outlaw track to run at. We know one person posting loves to run at places where safety is not a big concern and a couple of the others posting seldom if ever hit a race track. This is getting a bit old and if a $70 set of seatbelts every couple of years is what keeps you from racing then for gods sake FIND A NEW HOBBIE

If what other Racers do or don't do with or too there race cars really stress's you out all that bad then maybe its you who should find another Hobby!

PS I do not run cheap belts in my cars I run the Hi $$$ cam lock belts in my cars,it takes to long to un-latch the cheaper kind,but thats the only thing they are still just as good.And yes I could afford to change the Daymn Belts every year if I chose,but it just does not make sense to have to,the only reason it is being done is too pad some "Fat Cats" pocket!

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 08:02 PM

So I guess the only reason they changed the rule from 2" belts to 3" belts is just so the manufacturers could make MORE money because there is more material to be sold correct.............because if a 2" is "plenty strong" switching to 3" could ONLY be because they wanted to make more money.......correct? Because both would have to be replaced in 2 years.

And as far as the factory car restraint system........if you think that ONE belt kinda going across one shoulder, the lap anchored on one side, with a single latch and no crotch will keep you and the seat in place...........well, you have WAY more faith in it than I do. But is it obviously your option to feel that way.

And is sure does seem like a lot of the crashes we see at the race track, are cars nosing directly into the wall on the top end at a nearly 90* angle, at 200+ and then barrel rolling several times. One only need go back and look at the pic of the Vette roadster posted in this very thread. looks Like he more than "brushed" the wall a little. Find it hard to believe the restraints in my "driver" would have resulted in that guy walking away..........but what do I know

But as much fun as this thread has been........I believe I have had enough fun for now...........LOL!!!

Monte

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 08:09 PM

So if the thread in the webbing is completely shot after 2 years, and I send my belts in to have them re-certified, I should expect all new thread in the webbing? Not just a new certification date?

Mark

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 09:54 PM

Quote:

So if the thread in the webbing is completely shot after 2 years, and I send my belts in to have them re-certified, I should expect all new thread in the webbing? Not just a new certification date?

Mark

That's were they put the good thread. Its holding the cert sticker and the products name on the harness.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 10:17 PM

Quote:

So I guess the only reason they changed the rule from 2" belts to 3" belts is just so the manufacturers could make MORE money because there is more material to be sold correct.

What?

What does hypothetical deterioration of belt fabric have to do with width? As already pointed out 3" belts spread out the point of impact better than 2" belts which no one is advocating a return to.

I say hypothetical because the organization who is claiming the belts need to be replaced in a fairly short period of time is funded by those who would profit from frequent belt sales.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 10:18 PM

Quote:

So I guess the only reason they changed the rule from 2" belts to 3" belts is just so the manufacturers could make MORE money because there is more material to be sold correct.............because if a 2" is "plenty strong" switching to 3" could ONLY be because they wanted to make more money.......correct? Because both would have to be replaced in 2 years.

And as far as the factory car restraint system........if you think that ONE belt kinda going across one shoulder, the lap anchored on one side, with a single latch and no crotch will keep you and the seat in place...........well, you have WAY more faith in it than I do. But is it obviously your option to feel that way.

And is sure does seem like a lot of the crashes we see at the race track, are cars nosing directly into the wall on the top end at a nearly 90* angle, at 200+ and then barrel rolling several times. One only need go back and look at the pic of the Vette roadster posted in this very thread. looks Like he more than "brushed" the wall a little. Find it hard to believe the restraints in my "driver" would have resulted in that guy walking away..........but what do I know

But as much fun as this thread has been........I believe I have had enough fun for now...........LOL!!!

Monte

The 3" is mainly to spread the load out on the body..
the 2" has enough strength that the body couldnt
withstand the pressures it takes to rip the belt
in half(and thats just 1 single 2" belt..not 4 or 5
belts

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 10:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So if the thread in the webbing is completely shot after 2 years, and I send my belts in to have them re-certified, I should expect all new thread in the webbing? Not just a new certification date?

Mark

That's were they put the good thread. Its holding the cert sticker and the products name on the harness.

My belts get a free re-cert, when expired. If the thread is so dangerously deteriorated in 2 years, I would expect new thread. If the belts come back with the same thread, then only an inspection is actually necessary not replacement?

Mark

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 10:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

So if the thread in the webbing is completely shot after 2 years, and I send my belts in to have them re-certified, I should expect all new thread in the webbing? Not just a new certification date?

Mark

That's were they put the good thread. Its holding the cert sticker and the products name on the harness.

My belts get a free re-cert, when expired. If the thread is so dangerously deteriorated in 2 years, I would expect new thread. If the belts come back with the same thread, then only an inspection is actually necessary not replacement?

Mark

When you get your belts re-certed.. they cut off all
the belts and supply new material and sewing... the
only thing that is original from the old set is the
hardware... and on the 5 re-cert you have to buy a
whole new set... there is a certain pattern on the
sewing that has to be done so it certs

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 11:08 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

So if the thread in the webbing is completely shot after 2 years, and I send my belts in to have them re-certified, I should expect all new thread in the webbing? Not just a new certification date?

Mark

That's were they put the good thread. Its holding the cert sticker and the products name on the harness.

My belts get a free re-cert, when expired. If the thread is so dangerously deteriorated in 2 years, I would expect new thread. If the belts come back with the same thread, then only an inspection is actually necessary not replacement?

Mark

When you get your belts re-certed.. they cut off all
the belts and supply new material and sewing... the
only thing that is original from the old set is the
hardware... and on the 5 re-cert you have to buy a
whole new set... there is a certain pattern on the
sewing that has to be done so it certs

Ok , Thanks Mike,
I have already mailed them for re-cert. More of a hassle to remove and install on my car as others have stated. Then package and ship back to RCI.
So obviously the concern is not the hardware at all?

Mark

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/24/15 11:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

So if the thread in the webbing is completely shot after 2 years, and I send my belts in to have them re-certified, I should expect all new thread in the webbing? Not just a new certification date?

Mark

That's were they put the good thread. Its holding the cert sticker and the products name on the harness.

My belts get a free re-cert, when expired. If the thread is so dangerously deteriorated in 2 years, I would expect new thread. If the belts come back with the same thread, then only an inspection is actually necessary not replacement?

Mark

When you get your belts re-certed.. they cut off all
the belts and supply new material and sewing... the
only thing that is original from the old set is the
hardware... and on the 5 re-cert you have to buy a
whole new set... there is a certain pattern on the
sewing that has to be done so it certs

Ok , Thanks Mike,
I have already mailed them for re-cert. More of a hassle to remove and install on my car as others have stated. Then package and ship back to RCI.
So obviously the concern is not the hardware at all?

Mark

One of the guys that use to be on here did testing
on the belts... old belts... in EVERY CASE the hardware
let go before the belts or any sewing... every case
the hardware failed... and yet when you re-cert the
only thing you keep is the hardware

Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/25/15 05:10 AM

Did everybody get their free lottery tickets yet?

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/25/15 05:18 AM

Quote:

Did everybody get their free lottery tickets yet?

You offering?

Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/25/15 05:32 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Did everybody get their free lottery tickets yet?

You offering?

ice cream and trophy's for all to!

Posted By: rickstershemi

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/25/15 05:33 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Go to any big money five-day bracket race and you will find dragsters and roadsters sitting outside in the sun all day long for the entire week....covered with tarps only over-night....some of these teams carry 4-5 dragsters in a trailer....they don't put them away every night....they would rather party

And these guys race week after week chasing the big buck races....they get their share of wear&tear

Rickster

Have you got a dragster???? I have 2 of them a 2012 & 2014 both purpose built T/D,and have owned dragsters since 1990 and can tell you 1st hand you can not leave the cage & seat uncovered all day in the hot sun or the seat,steering wheel and every daymn thing else will be so hot you can not set down in them or touch anything!Most times at the Big $$$ Bracket Races we carry 2 dragsters & 3 door-cars and put all 5 of them back in the trailers.And I have never noticed people leaving their cars out all night while they are gone partying!But to be honest I have never rode through the pits at night to see if anyone has left there cars out.But I do know this for certain you let a dragster set out in the hot sun very long when you set your a$$ down it,it will be like putting an egg in a hot frying fan. Ask me how I know that.

Not interested in what you do with your cars....just stated what I'm used to seeing.....and my roadster would sit out all day with nothing more than my jacket on the cage.

No need for you to respond.

Rickster

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/25/15 06:19 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Go to any big money five-day bracket race and you will find dragsters and roadsters sitting outside in the sun all day long for the entire week....covered with tarps only over-night....some of these teams carry 4-5 dragsters in a trailer....they don't put them away every night....they would rather party

And these guys race week after week chasing the big buck races....they get their share of wear&tear

Rickster

Have you got a dragster???? I have 2 of them a 2012 & 2014 both purpose built T/D,and have owned dragsters since 1990 and can tell you 1st hand you can not leave the cage & seat uncovered all day in the hot sun or the seat,steering wheel and every daymn thing else will be so hot you can not set down in them or touch anything!Most times at the Big $$$ Bracket Races we carry 2 dragsters & 3 door-cars and put all 5 of them back in the trailers.And I have never noticed people leaving their cars out all night while they are gone partying!But to be honest I have never rode through the pits at night to see if anyone has left there cars out.But I do know this for certain you let a dragster set out in the hot sun very long when you set your a$$ down it,it will be like putting an egg in a hot frying fan. Ask me how I know that.

Not interested in what you do with your cars....just stated what I'm used to seeing.....and my roadster would sit out all day with nothing more than my jacket on the cage.

No need for you to respond.

Rickster

So you cover your cage with your jacket,is that not keeping the sun of your seat and belts instead of sitting open in the sun all day?

Just because you take no Pride in yourself or your Race-Car and you are foolish enough to leave your car sitting out in the open all day with your seat belts exposed to the sun all day instead of taking care of them like the rest of us,why should the rest of us have to pay for your Foolish mistakes?

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/25/15 07:38 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Go to any big money five-day bracket race and you will find dragsters and roadsters sitting outside in the sun all day long for the entire week....covered with tarps only over-night....some of these teams carry 4-5 dragsters in a trailer....they don't put them away every night....they would rather party

And these guys race week after week chasing the big buck races....they get their share of wear&tear

Rickster

Have you got a dragster???? I have 2 of them a 2012 & 2014 both purpose built T/D,and have owned dragsters since 1990 and can tell you 1st hand you can not leave the cage & seat uncovered all day in the hot sun or the seat,steering wheel and every daymn thing else will be so hot you can not set down in them or touch anything!Most times at the Big $$$ Bracket Races we carry 2 dragsters & 3 door-cars and put all 5 of them back in the trailers.And I have never noticed people leaving their cars out all night while they are gone partying!But to be honest I have never rode through the pits at night to see if anyone has left there cars out.But I do know this for certain you let a dragster set out in the hot sun very long when you set your a$$ down it,it will be like putting an egg in a hot frying fan. Ask me how I know that.

Not interested in what you do with your cars....just stated what I'm used to seeing.....and my roadster would sit out all day with nothing more than my jacket on the cage.

No need for you to respond.

Rickster

So you cover your cage with your jacket,is that not keeping the sun of your seat and belts instead of sitting open in the sun all day?

If you are foolish enough to leave your car sitting out in the open all day with your seat belts exposed to the sun all day instead of taking care of them like the rest of us,why should the rest of us have to pay for your Foolish mistakes?

I bet he wears his jacket.......but yet HE is the foolish one.............Pot, meet kettle.........LMFAO!!!!!

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/25/15 07:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Go to any big money five-day bracket race and you will find dragsters and roadsters sitting outside in the sun all day long for the entire week....covered with tarps only over-night....some of these teams carry 4-5 dragsters in a trailer....they don't put them away every night....they would rather party

And these guys race week after week chasing the big buck races....they get their share of wear&tear

Rickster

Have you got a dragster???? I have 2 of them a 2012 & 2014 both purpose built T/D,and have owned dragsters since 1990 and can tell you 1st hand you can not leave the cage & seat uncovered all day in the hot sun or the seat,steering wheel and every daymn thing else will be so hot you can not set down in them or touch anything!Most times at the Big $$$ Bracket Races we carry 2 dragsters & 3 door-cars and put all 5 of them back in the trailers.And I have never noticed people leaving their cars out all night while they are gone partying!But to be honest I have never rode through the pits at night to see if anyone has left there cars out.But I do know this for certain you let a dragster set out in the hot sun very long when you set your a$$ down it,it will be like putting an egg in a hot frying fan. Ask me how I know that.

Not interested in what you do with your cars....just stated what I'm used to seeing.....and my roadster would sit out all day with nothing more than my jacket on the cage.

No need for you to respond.

Rickster

So you cover your cage with your jacket,is that not keeping the sun of your seat and belts instead of sitting open in the sun all day?

If you are foolish enough to leave your car sitting out in the open all day with your seat belts exposed to the sun all day instead of taking care of them like the rest of us,why should the rest of us have to pay for your Foolish mistakes?

I bet he wears his jacket.......but yet HE is the foolish one.............Pot, meet kettle.........LMFAO!!!!!

Monte your race car has not run since the "Roaring 60's" I think that tells everyone what they need to know about you!

When and if you ever get your race car running again and only then maybe people will start paying attention to what you say.Talking about what one needs to do and doing it are not the same!When are you going to get off you Fat Butt from in front of the computer eating Bon Bons and telling us how great you are and show us how good of a racer you are?

Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/25/15 11:12 PM

If you really believe that SFI and the sanction's rule books are a conspiracy to steal money from you or if you actually consider driving a race car in a T-shirt and flip flops to not be a problem, this is likely over your head.

For those with a triple digit IQ and who want to actually learn something, here are 2 links on this subject that I've found to be quite interesting.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/seatb.html

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/carcr2.html

MR P BODY, I don't dispute or question anything you've said. In fact, with your experience, I believe these links will be of interest to you.

My point is that the requirements of the material used in a 16.1 harness are much different and greater than that used in a passenger car assembly. It seems to me that the 16.1 assembly is required to restrain the driver in the seat with very little movement upon impact, even after losing much of it's original tensile strength over time and under extreme loads. While the passenger car material, which is different from that used in the 16.1, needs some give to reduce G-forces on the body in an accident. Maybe the use of airbags has allowed this cushion effect to be even less violent.

A little bit of time spent playing with numbers on the second link has shown that a 60 MPH impact on a 200lb. body, that is allowed 6 inches of cushion or stretch in the belts, results in an impact force of 24 tons on the body. Increase the speed to 250 and the number goes to 418 tons! Almost 18 times the load! Reduce the distance that the belts stretch to 3 inches and it goes to 836 tons! Unsurvivable, of course. But still desirable to the driver coming out of the car.

As with everything else we use, compressed gas cylinders, pressure hose, safety shields, high RPM items, lifting equipment, etc., the point of failure has to be so much higher than the maximum load rating under normal use, to allow a margin of safety under worst case situations. Overkill? Maybe. But I do know we have a lot less people killed in drag cars, at much higher speeds, than in the good old days. Why do people complain about the process that has been responsible for that?

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/26/15 12:27 AM

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Go to any big money five-day bracket race and you will find dragsters and roadsters sitting outside in the sun all day long for the entire week....covered with tarps only over-night....some of these teams carry 4-5 dragsters in a trailer....they don't put them away every night....they would rather party

And these guys race week after week chasing the big buck races....they get their share of wear&tear

Rickster

Have you got a dragster???? I have 2 of them a 2012 & 2014 both purpose built T/D,and have owned dragsters since 1990 and can tell you 1st hand you can not leave the cage & seat uncovered all day in the hot sun or the seat,steering wheel and every daymn thing else will be so hot you can not set down in them or touch anything!Most times at the Big $$$ Bracket Races we carry 2 dragsters & 3 door-cars and put all 5 of them back in the trailers.And I have never noticed people leaving their cars out all night while they are gone partying!But to be honest I have never rode through the pits at night to see if anyone has left there cars out.But I do know this for certain you let a dragster set out in the hot sun very long when you set your a$$ down it,it will be like putting an egg in a hot frying fan. Ask me how I know that.

Not interested in what you do with your cars....just stated what I'm used to seeing.....and my roadster would sit out all day with nothing more than my jacket on the cage.

No need for you to respond.

Rickster

So you cover your cage with your jacket,is that not keeping the sun of your seat and belts instead of sitting open in the sun all day?

If you are foolish enough to leave your car sitting out in the open all day with your seat belts exposed to the sun all day instead of taking care of them like the rest of us,why should the rest of us have to pay for your Foolish mistakes?

I bet he wears his jacket.......but yet HE is the foolish one.............Pot, meet kettle.........LMFAO!!!!!

Monte your race car has not run since the "Roaring 60's" I think that tells everyone what they need to know about you! When and if you ever get your race car running again and only then maybe people will start paying attention to what you say.Talking about what one needs to do and doing it are not the same!When are you going to get off you Fat Butt from in front of the computer eating Bon Bons and telling us how great you are and show us how good of a racer you are?

I don't care if anyone pays attention to what I say or not. I am free to express my opinion like everyone else here, so thats what I do. People listen or they don't. Either way don't make much difference to me.

And One more time dude........even though I have said it SEVERAL times already. I make PLENTY of passes in the course of a year, just not in MY car at this time. I have a TS car in my garage right now that I will be testing when I finish my work on it, runs 4 teens. Will also be shaking down a grudge car in a few weeks we just finished up and it should be a low 4 sec player as well. I drive often for OTHER people.....and guess what, I WEAR my safety gear, ALL of it and never once complain about either having to buy, or wear it. In the past, I have driven alky funny cars, so I HAVE been on fire. I also had the wheelie bars break on a blown Pro-Mod, which put me on the roof a few years ago. I have NO problem with safety gear, because I have personally had it work for me on more than one occasion............And ALL you have done this whole thread is skirt the issue about you not wearing your own gear and talk about my car not running........which as of yet, have I figured out what THAT possibly has to do with this thread. But whatever dude.........carry on with it.

Oh yeah........and as far as getting in a HOT dragster, after it sits in the sun all day..........seems to me if you had pants, a jacket, shoes and gloves....it wouldn't really matter if it was hot...........LOL!!!.. But again, I don't know anything, because as you say, my own car hasn't run since the "roaring 60s"..........yeee haaa...........are we having fun yet........LOL!!!

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/26/15 12:34 AM

Quote:

If you really believe that SFI and the sanction's rule books are a conspiracy to steal money from you or if you actually consider driving a race car in a T-shirt and flip flops to not be a problem, this is likely over your head.

For those with a triple digit IQ and who want to actually learn something, here are 2 links on this subject that I've found to be quite interesting.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/seatb.html

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/carcr2.html

MR P BODY, I don't dispute or question anything you've said. In fact, with your experience, I believe these links will be of interest to you.

My point is that the requirements of the material used in a 16.1 harness are much different and greater than that used in a passenger car assembly. It seems to me that the 16.1 assembly is required to restrain the driver in the seat with very little movement upon impact, even after losing much of it's original tensile strength over time and under extreme loads. While the passenger car material, which is different from that used in the 16.1, needs some give to reduce G-forces on the body in an accident. Maybe the use of airbags has allowed this cushion effect to be even less violent.

A little bit of time spent playing with numbers on the second link has shown that a 60 MPH impact on a 200lb. body, that is allowed 6 inches of cushion or stretch in the belts, results in an impact force of 24 tons on the body. Increase the speed to 250 and the number goes to 418 tons! Almost 18 times the load! Reduce the distance that the belts stretch to 3 inches and it goes to 836 tons! Unsurvivable, of course. But still desirable to the driver coming out of the car.

As with everything else we use, compressed gas cylinders, pressure hose, safety shields, high RPM items, lifting equipment, etc., the point of failure has to be so much higher than the maximum load rating under normal use, to allow a margin of safety under worst case situations. Overkill? Maybe. But I do know we have a lot less people killed in drag cars, at much higher speeds, than in the good old days. Why do people complain about the process that has been responsible for that?

This was my point about comparing "factory" to "race". You are NOT supposed to move in a race car. Step in the lanes sometime.......watch a driver get strapped in a TF dragster or FC......even a Pro-Mod. Crewmembers actually put their feet on the car for leverage as they pull the belts THAT tight. If you can move at ALL, they are TOO loose. Because the belts have to anchor you AND the seat IN THE CAR in the event of a crash. In a factory car, while the belts MAY help keep you IN the car, the air bags is what keeps you from getting hurt. Videos of the amount of movement of "crash dummies" are easy to find. Move that much in your race car..it won't be good.

Monte

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/26/15 01:18 AM

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Go to any big money five-day bracket race and you will find dragsters and roadsters sitting outside in the sun all day long for the entire week....covered with tarps only over-night....some of these teams carry 4-5 dragsters in a trailer....they don't put them away every night....they would rather party

And these guys race week after week chasing the big buck races....they get their share of wear&tear

Rickster

Have you got a dragster???? I have 2 of them a 2012 & 2014 both purpose built T/D,and have owned dragsters since 1990 and can tell you 1st hand you can not leave the cage & seat uncovered all day in the hot sun or the seat,steering wheel and every daymn thing else will be so hot you can not set down in them or touch anything!Most times at the Big $$$ Bracket Races we carry 2 dragsters & 3 door-cars and put all 5 of them back in the trailers.And I have never noticed people leaving their cars out all night while they are gone partying!But to be honest I have never rode through the pits at night to see if anyone has left there cars out.But I do know this for certain you let a dragster set out in the hot sun very long when you set your a$$ down it,it will be like putting an egg in a hot frying fan. Ask me how I know that.

Not interested in what you do with your cars....just stated what I'm used to seeing.....and my roadster would sit out all day with nothing more than my jacket on the cage.

No need for you to respond.

Rickster

So you cover your cage with your jacket,is that not keeping the sun of your seat and belts instead of sitting open in the sun all day?

If you are foolish enough to leave your car sitting out in the open all day with your seat belts exposed to the sun all day instead of taking care of them like the rest of us,why should the rest of us have to pay for your Foolish mistakes?

I bet he wears his jacket.......but yet HE is the foolish one.............Pot, meet kettle.........LMFAO!!!!!

Monte your race car has not run since the "Roaring 60's" I think that tells everyone what they need to know about you! When and if you ever get your race car running again and only then maybe people will start paying attention to what you say.Talking about what one needs to do and doing it are not the same!When are you going to get off you Fat Butt from in front of the computer eating Bon Bons and telling us how great you are and show us how good of a racer you are?

I don't care if anyone pays attention to what I say or not. I am free to express my opinion like everyone else here, so thats what I do. People listen or they don't. Either way don't make much difference to me.

And One more time dude........even though I have said it SEVERAL times already. I make PLENTY of passes in the course of a year, just not in MY car at this time. I have a TS car in my garage right now that I will be testing when I finish my work on it, runs 4 teens. Will also be shaking down a grudge car in a few weeks we just finished up and it should be a low 4 sec player as well. I drive often for OTHER people.....and guess what, I WEAR my safety gear, ALL of it and never once complain about either having to buy, or wear it. In the past, I have driven alky funny cars, so I HAVE been on fire. I also had the wheelie bars break on a blown Pro-Mod, which put me on the roof a few years ago. I have NO problem with safety gear, because I have personally had it work for me on more than one occasion............And ALL you have done this whole thread is skirt the issue about you not wearing your own gear and talk about my car not running........which as of yet, have I figured out what THAT possibly has to do with this thread. But whatever dude.........carry on with it.

Oh yeah........and as far as getting in a HOT dragster, after it sits in the sun all day..........seems to me if you had pants, a jacket, shoes and gloves....it wouldn't really matter if it was hot...........LOL!!!.. But again, I don't know anything, because as you say, my own car hasn't run since the "roaring 60s"..........yeee haaa...........are we having fun yet........LOL!!!

Monte,do you want us to believe no more seat time that you have had you just jump in a Blown Pro Mad and make a pass

Racers who race weekly or for that matter once a month,do you think you could climb in a Blown Pro-Mod Car that runs 5:80's-590's in a 1/4 mile while having to shift gears and make a full pass?Think about it could you go from a 8-9 sec car with no clutch and hop in a Blown Pro Mod with a clutch and make a full pass?Yet Monte has not had his race car running since the 60's and you know there is no way he even makes 1 pass a month in any kind of a car much less drive a 8-9 sec car on a regular basis's.Monte gets carried away some times

like in a post he made above when someone said they used old seat belts out of junk cars to pull engines & trans out of cars.Well Monte was not gonna let them out do him so he says..I Have Used A Rope To Pull Engines Out Of Cars!

As for him hoping in a alky funny Car with no seat time......

Would any of you that race weekly try and do that?

And to hear him Boast about how much better racer he is than the rest of us when his car has not running in many many years...if he was a good driver back then after going this many years with little to no seat time

PS I do have a fire suit that I can put on if I choose and get in my race car and race!

Posted By: rickstershemi

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/26/15 01:52 AM

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Go to any big money five-day bracket race and you will find dragsters and roadsters sitting outside in the sun all day long for the entire week....covered with tarps only over-night....some of these teams carry 4-5 dragsters in a trailer....they don't put them away every night....they would rather party

And these guys race week after week chasing the big buck races....they get their share of wear&tear

Rickster

Have you got a dragster???? I have 2 of them a 2012 & 2014 both purpose built T/D,and have owned dragsters since 1990 and can tell you 1st hand you can not leave the cage & seat uncovered all day in the hot sun or the seat,steering wheel and every daymn thing else will be so hot you can not set down in them or touch anything!Most times at the Big $$$ Bracket Races we carry 2 dragsters & 3 door-cars and put all 5 of them back in the trailers.And I have never noticed people leaving their cars out all night while they are gone partying!But to be honest I have never rode through the pits at night to see if anyone has left there cars out.But I do know this for certain you let a dragster set out in the hot sun very long when you set your a$$ down it,it will be like putting an egg in a hot frying fan. Ask me how I know that.

Not interested in what you do with your cars....just stated what I'm used to seeing.....and my roadster would sit out all day with nothing more than my jacket on the cage.

No need for you to respond.

Rickster

So you cover your cage with your jacket,is that not keeping the sun of your seat and belts instead of sitting open in the sun all day?

Just because you take no Pride in yourself or your Race-Car and you are foolish enough to leave your car sitting out in the open all day with your seat belts exposed to the sun all day instead of taking care of them like the rest of us,why should the rest of us have to pay for your Foolish mistakes?

You're an Imbecile....Period

Rick Blak

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/26/15 02:03 AM

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Go to any big money five-day bracket race and you will find dragsters and roadsters sitting outside in the sun all day long for the entire week....covered with tarps only over-night....some of these teams carry 4-5 dragsters in a trailer....they don't put them away every night....they would rather party

And these guys race week after week chasing the big buck races....they get their share of wear&tear

Rickster

Have you got a dragster???? I have 2 of them a 2012 & 2014 both purpose built T/D,and have owned dragsters since 1990 and can tell you 1st hand you can not leave the cage & seat uncovered all day in the hot sun or the seat,steering wheel and every daymn thing else will be so hot you can not set down in them or touch anything!Most times at the Big $$$ Bracket Races we carry 2 dragsters & 3 door-cars and put all 5 of them back in the trailers.And I have never noticed people leaving their cars out all night while they are gone partying!But to be honest I have never rode through the pits at night to see if anyone has left there cars out.But I do know this for certain you let a dragster set out in the hot sun very long when you set your a$$ down it,it will be like putting an egg in a hot frying fan. Ask me how I know that.

Not interested in what you do with your cars....just stated what I'm used to seeing.....and my roadster would sit out all day with nothing more than my jacket on the cage.

No need for you to respond.

Rickster

So you cover your cage with your jacket,is that not keeping the sun of your seat and belts instead of sitting open in the sun all day?

Just because you take no Pride in yourself or your Race-Car and you are foolish enough to leave your car sitting out in the open all day with your seat belts exposed to the sun all day instead of taking care of them like the rest of us,why should the rest of us have to pay for your Foolish mistakes?

You're an Imbecile....Period

Rick Blak

You are nothing but a motor mouth clown with a slow azz roadster! My cars are fast!

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/26/15 02:09 AM

5038 signatures since last Sunday

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/26/15 02:11 AM

Quote:

5038 signatures since last Sunday

Did you start the petition

Posted By: unknown

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/26/15 02:15 AM

Attached picture 8407856-train-wreckmoparts.jpg

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/26/15 02:18 AM

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5038 signatures since last Sunday

Did you start the petition

. No there was a link on Facebook and yellowbullet

Posted By: rickraw

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/26/15 02:19 AM

I wonder how much more beating the dead horse can take.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/26/15 02:36 AM

Some people walk the fence their whole life. They complain but never do anything about it. Some never even vote in the presidential elections but instead let others make choices for them. I especially see this in the younger generation. Very scary future we have to look forward to.

Posted By: rickstershemi

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/26/15 02:36 AM

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TRAIN WRECK

X 1000

Rickster

Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/26/15 02:40 AM

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Go to any big money five-day bracket race and you will find dragsters and roadsters sitting outside in the sun all day long for the entire week....covered with tarps only over-night....some of these teams carry 4-5 dragsters in a trailer....they don't put them away every night....they would rather party

And these guys race week after week chasing the big buck races....they get their share of wear&tear

Rickster

Have you got a dragster???? I have 2 of them a 2012 & 2014 both purpose built T/D,and have owned dragsters since 1990 and can tell you 1st hand you can not leave the cage & seat uncovered all day in the hot sun or the seat,steering wheel and every daymn thing else will be so hot you can not set down in them or touch anything!Most times at the Big $$$ Bracket Races we carry 2 dragsters & 3 door-cars and put all 5 of them back in the trailers.And I have never noticed people leaving their cars out all night while they are gone partying!But to be honest I have never rode through the pits at night to see if anyone has left there cars out.But I do know this for certain you let a dragster set out in the hot sun very long when you set your a$$ down it,it will be like putting an egg in a hot frying fan. Ask me how I know that.

Not interested in what you do with your cars....just stated what I'm used to seeing.....and my roadster would sit out all day with nothing more than my jacket on the cage.

No need for you to respond.

Rickster

So you cover your cage with your jacket,is that not keeping the sun of your seat and belts instead of sitting open in the sun all day?

If you are foolish enough to leave your car sitting out in the open all day with your seat belts exposed to the sun all day instead of taking care of them like the rest of us,why should the rest of us have to pay for your Foolish mistakes?

I bet he wears his jacket.......but yet HE is the foolish one.............Pot, meet kettle.........LMFAO!!!!!

Monte your race car has not run since the "Roaring 60's" I think that tells everyone what they need to know about you! When and if you ever get your race car running again and only then maybe people will start paying attention to what you say.Talking about what one needs to do and doing it are not the same!When are you going to get off you Fat Butt from in front of the computer eating Bon Bons and telling us how great you are and show us how good of a racer you are?

I don't care if anyone pays attention to what I say or not. I am free to express my opinion like everyone else here, so thats what I do. People listen or they don't. Either way don't make much difference to me.

And One more time dude........even though I have said it SEVERAL times already. I make PLENTY of passes in the course of a year, just not in MY car at this time. I have a TS car in my garage right now that I will be testing when I finish my work on it, runs 4 teens. Will also be shaking down a grudge car in a few weeks we just finished up and it should be a low 4 sec player as well. I drive often for OTHER people.....and guess what, I WEAR my safety gear, ALL of it and never once complain about either having to buy, or wear it. In the past, I have driven alky funny cars, so I HAVE been on fire. I also had the wheelie bars break on a blown Pro-Mod, which put me on the roof a few years ago. I have NO problem with safety gear, because I have personally had it work for me on more than one occasion............And ALL you have done this whole thread is skirt the issue about you not wearing your own gear and talk about my car not running........which as of yet, have I figured out what THAT possibly has to do with this thread. But whatever dude.........carry on with it.

Oh yeah........and as far as getting in a HOT dragster, after it sits in the sun all day..........seems to me if you had pants, a jacket, shoes and gloves....it wouldn't really matter if it was hot...........LOL!!!.. But again, I don't know anything, because as you say, my own car hasn't run since the "roaring 60s"..........yeee haaa...........are we having fun yet........LOL!!!

Monte,do you want us to believe no more seat time that you have had you just jump in a Blown Pro Mad and make a pass
Racers who race weekly or for that matter once a month,do you think you could climb in a Blown Pro-Mod Car that runs 5:80's-590's in a 1/4 mile while having to shift gears and make a full pass?Think about it could you go from a 8-9 sec car with no clutch and hop in a Blown Pro Mod with a clutch and make a full pass?Yet Monte has not had his race car running since the 60's and you know there is no way he even makes 1 pass a month in any kind of a car much less drive a 8-9 sec car on a regular basis's.Monte gets carried away some times like in a post he made above when someone said they used old seat belts out of junk cars to pull engines & trans out of cars.Well Monte was not gonna let them out do him so he says..I Have Used A Rope To Pull Engines Out Of Cars!
As for him hoping in a alky funny Car with no seat time......
Would any of you that race weekly try and do that?
And to hear him Boast about how much better racer he is than the rest of us when his car has not running in many many years...if he was a good driver back then after going this many years with little to no seat time

PS I do have a fire suit that I can put on if I choose and get in my race car and race!

What does this have to do with an intelligent conversation concerning the process of establishing drag race standards, rules, and regulations in general and in particular, the effect that process has on the determination that the established accepted amount of time before the tensile strength of the material used in the construction of an SFI spec 16.1 drivers harness, falls below what is determined to be the minimum deemed acceptable, is 2 years?

I learn many things here. Most is valuable information shared by intelligent, experienced people. Some is not.

Really, you lost me at T-shirts and flip-flops. Back to seat belts please.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/26/15 02:46 AM

Quote:

I learn many things here. Most is valuable information shared by intelligent, experienced people. Some is not.

Agreed!

The one piece of data that is missing is how strong are the belts before and after two years and at what point forces exerted on the average human body by said belts during deceleration will result in death?

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/26/15 02:55 AM

What does this have to do with an intelligent conversation concerning the process of establishing drag race standards, rules, and regulations in general and in particular, the effect that process has on the determination that the established accepted amount of time before the tensile strength of the material used in the construction of an SFI spec 16.1 drivers harness, falls below what is deemed to be the minimum deemed acceptable, is 2 years?

I learn many things here. Most is valuable information shared by intelligent, experienced people. Some is not.

Really, you lost me at T-shirts and flip-flops.

Show me where you have a Degree that makes you an expert on Seat Belt replacement.Feel free to tell us what makes you think you are smarter than all the rest of us racers.By the way what kind of race car do you even have?

Next tell me where you have ever saw me at wearing flip flops race track or any where else a picture would be nice.But just to show how smart you are or at least think you are I have never wore flip flops and won't ever.
Now that right there makes you a Liar,next time before you run your mouth get your facts straight.
And if you lie about that how do we know you are not telling a lie about everything else!

Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/26/15 03:25 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I learn many things here. Most is valuable information shared by intelligent, experienced people. Some is not.

Agreed!

The one piece of data that is missing is how strong are the belts before and after two years and at what point forces exerted on the average human body by said belts during deceleration will result in death?

That information is out there in documents published by the textile industry. This thread had me curious and I found it the other day while Googling around. Didn't want to tell any lies.

The human body exerts force on the belts as a result of G-forces produced in an accident. These G-forces may exceed what the the person may survive, but the driver HAS to be restrained inside of the protective structure of the car. That is his best chance of surviving.

A report on the Scotty Kallita accident states that he was restrained in the car throughout the incident. "Multiple impacts produced G-forces exceeding 100G, with some approaching or exceeding 200G."
Cause of death was multiple blunt force trauma. There are unsurvivable accidents, but the last thing we should want to see are videos on You Tube of a driver coming out of a car in any of these incidents.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/26/15 03:35 AM

If I owned and raced a Top Fuel car I could see changing out the belts every two years.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/26/15 03:56 AM

The human body exerts force on the belts as a result of G-forces produced in an accident. These G-forces may exceed what the the person may survive, but the driver HAS to be restrained inside of the protective structure of the car. That is his best chance of surviving.

A report on the Scotty Kallita accident states that he was restrained in the car throughout the incident. "Multiple impacts produced G-forces exceeding 100G, with some approaching or exceeding 200G."
Cause of death was multiple blunt force trauma. There are unsurvivable accidents, but the last thing we should want to see are videos on You Tube of a driver coming out of a car in any of these incidents.

Yes the MAJOR factor is to keep the person inside
of the car/cage and yes there are times that the G
force will just be too great for the body to withstand
and the person still dies.. thats just the way it
is (but at least they are still in the car).. I did
find the data interesting.. now I wonder why
the material fails in a 2 year period.. I would think
that the manufacturer can/could come up with a product
that will last 5 years.. or greater.. far as I know from some of the data that
I remember sunlight is the killer on many of the
nylon procducts but we do have enough technology and
materials to over come the sunlight issue... I havent said
this has been a money deal for the companies but if
they were to build a 5 year system and charge a bit
more.. then maybe we would all be happy..... JMO
EDIT
On the graft that someone posted from the SFI... with
that graft I would have been thrown out of a meeting..
it has to have numbers

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years. - 01/26/15 05:09 AM

I think this has gone on long enough. Not anything constructive going on. If you want to start a new thread feel free. Maybe it will become more information oriented and not degrade as much as this one has.

Petition to change seat-belt rule from 2 to 5 years.