Moparts

Monte Smith ?

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 02:47 AM

Monte do you know what brand name the wide band O2
sensor is Holley sends out in the Dominator EFI kit..
I need to know so I can plug that in for the down
load info... all it says on it is Holley
thanks
Posted By: RAMM

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 03:16 AM

Pretty sure its a BOSCH not the NTK. I wondered the same thing. J.Rob
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 03:20 AM

Quote:

Pretty sure its a BOSCH not the NTK. I wondered the same thing. J.Rob



I think it is also but I want to make sure so I dont
fry it... thanks
Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 03:44 AM

if its can on the end of the sensor with holes in it its a NTK and would cost around 450.00 if it has a ball on the end its a bosche and cost around 150.00
Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 03:47 AM

bosch

Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 03:49 AM

ntk l1h1

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 04:29 AM

Thanks... by the way you can get the Bosch wide
band sensor for $69. .. I bought one a short time
back for my A/F meter.. if I remember right it was
at NAPA
Posted By: sr4440

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 06:12 AM

at advance auto the bosch 17014 is $57 - 20% online discount plus a $10 rebate. net cost $36

i run 8 of em on the dyno and 2 in the car.


Joe
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 06:17 AM

Quote:

at advance auto the bosch 17014 is $57 - 20% online discount plus a $10 rebate. net cost $36

i run 8 of em on the dyno and 2 in the car.


Joe



Thanks I'll write that down
Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 07:04 AM

I don't use them, I still read plugs
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 07:06 AM

Quote:

I don't use them, I still read plugs



This EFI reads it
Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 07:17 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I don't use them, I still read plugs



This EFI reads it




I have a motec unit in one of my cars but no O2. Oh that's right I tune it I don't run it in closed loop. got it.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 07:21 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I don't use them, I still read plugs



This EFI reads it




I have a motec unit in one of my cars but no O2. Oh that's right I tune it I don't run it in closed loop. got it.




I have my choice of open or closed.. it HAS to have
something entered in the down load
Posted By: Blusmbl

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 05:37 PM

Quote:

I have a motec unit in one of my cars but no O2. Oh that's right I tune it I don't run it in closed loop. got it.



What about on the dyno? No A/F ratio there either? Individual runner temps???
Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 07:18 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I have a motec unit in one of my cars but no O2. Oh that's right I tune it I don't run it in closed loop. got it.



What about on the dyno? No A/F ratio there either? Individual runner temps???



and my outlaw 10.5 car is mechanical fuel injected. If its not about fuel economy the 02 will never tell the whole truth. EGT's are good to see if all cylinders have the same temp in the pipe but to many variables there to....timing versus fuel.

I will say the 02 is the easy way to tune to get you close but there is still no substitue for max power in a drag car for pulling plugs.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 07:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I have a motec unit in one of my cars but no O2. Oh that's right I tune it I don't run it in closed loop. got it.



What about on the dyno? No A/F ratio there either? Individual runner temps???



and my outlaw 10.5 car is mechanical fuel injected. If its not about fuel economy the 02 will never tell the whole truth. EGT's are good to see if all cylinders have the same temp in the pipe but to many variables there to....timing versus fuel.

I will say the 02 is the easy way to tune to get you close but there is still no substitue for max power in a drag car for pulling plugs.



I will come up with another program for the track
which wont use the O2.. but for the fire up it will
use the O2 and for the street... this is trying to
drive to stoich all the time.. so for power I'll come
up with a different program to load
Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 08:06 PM

We run our 738 on 4 dry kits in closed loop and let the box do it's job and correct. Been told and told that won't work and the car will be faster open loop on the tune itself........WRONG. Ran it both ways, makes no difference. No possible reason NOT to run a gas car closed loop. You are going to pay the money for EFI.....why not let it DO its job

Monte
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 08:16 PM

Quote:

We run our 738 on 4 dry kits in closed loop and let the box do it's job and correct. Been told and told that won't work and the car will be faster open loop on the tune itself........WRONG. Ran it both ways, makes no difference. No possible reason NOT to run a gas car closed loop. You are going to pay the money for EFI.....why not let it DO its job

Monte



Good to know... I found out that the O2 sensor is
a Bosch unit so that takes care of that part...
one other thing Monte... when down loading the global
base program I see for it shows for the GM small cap
and I'm gonna try that but will it matter for the
base set up.. my engine falls within most of the
parameters, mine has a bit more duration but I think
it'll learn from the base
Posted By: Big Squeeze

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 09:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I have a motec unit in one of my cars but no O2. Oh that's right I tune it I don't run it in closed loop. got it.



What about on the dyno? No A/F ratio there either? Individual runner temps???



and my outlaw 10.5 car is mechanical fuel injected. If its not about fuel economy the 02 will never tell the whole truth. EGT's are good to see if all cylinders have the same temp in the pipe but to many variables there to....timing versus fuel.

I will say the 02 is the easy way to tune to get you close but there is still no substitue for max power in a drag car for pulling plugs.



I don't understand why you don't like A/F numbers??? Thing is, most people WRONGLY assume that if you tune for a certain A/F number you'll make max hp....A/F numbers are EXACTLY like oil pressure numbers, tire pressure numbers and even a tach in that they DO NOT tell you what A/F you should run, or what oil pressure you need, or what tire pressure to run or where to shift...they are just numbers and the user has to be smart enough to know what numbers to shoot for...

IMHO, spark plugs and A/F numbers are no substitute for max power in a drag car for time slip incrementals, because at the end of the day, as long as it's not detonating, that's ALL that matters...

Now, having said that, once you tune for and find out what A/F your motor wants for max HP, it's easy to get there in different DA's while using A/F numbers...
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 10:26 PM

I understand what your saying.. If you find out what
the car runs the fastest THEN you take the reading
so its easy to get back to that A/F reading.. we have
found that a engine runs the best(for power) somewhere
around 12.5-13.0(but not always) so the O2 doesnt know
where the peak is at
Posted By: Big Squeeze

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 10:31 PM

Quote:

I understand what your saying.. If you find out what
the car runs the fastest THEN you take the reading
so its easy to get back to that A/F reading.. we have
found that a engine runs the best(for power) somewhere
around 12.5-13.0(but not always) so the O2 doesnt know
where the peak is at




Exactly....some intakes are worse about distributing fuel unequally to each cylinder so they have to be richer to compensate and get enough fuel to the leanest cylinders....I remember someone telling me that on one of Dudek's older FAST builds he had to be in the high 10's A/F for max power....
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 10:48 PM

Exactly....some intakes are worse about distributing fuel unequally to each cylinder so they have to be richer to compensate and get enough fuel to the leanest cylinders....I remember someone telling me that on one of Dudek's older FAST builds he had to be in the high 10's A/F for max power....



A buddy of mine owns Dudeks car and Dave was with him
on DW.. they had a HARD time trying to find power
in the heat... I heard yesterday that HRM was doing
a big pic display and interview on the car of it on
DW.. I was surprised as how poorly it ran.. but its
one of the FAST cars
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 11:18 PM

My Dart liked the Fast EZ Efi at 11.8 AFR WOT. The difference between that and 12.2 were noticeable.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 11:23 PM

Quote:

My Dart liked the Fast EZ Efi at 11.8 AFR WOT. The difference between that and 12.2 were noticeable.



I hear ya.. there is no magic number like a few
on here think there is
Posted By: BSB67

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 11:33 PM

Quote:

My Dart liked the Fast EZ Efi at 11.8 AFR WOT. The difference between that and 12.2 were noticeable.



On the engine dyno, mine was in the 12.1 to 12.4 range for best power and that was testing with 3 different intakes and two different carbs.
Posted By: TRENDZ

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/21/14 11:59 PM

A narrowband sensor will tell you if the ratio your running is making the engine happy. I had the benefit of running both a narrow and wide band sensor at the same time. I found the ratios my engine liked were dynamic... Generally richer below tq peak rpm, and leaning as rpm would rise.
A narrow band sensor will not have any "true" value as a ratio indicator, only as a "happy" monitor.
As an example, lets say I'm running the engine at a wide band confirmed 12:1 ratio. I look at the data logs, and look at the narrow band output voltage. If you see amplitude spikes(high/low) the engine wants something different. Add some fuel, log it, than look at the amplitude again. If the voltage line is smoother, keep moving in that direction. If its worse, go the other way. A smooth output voltage line is the goal. Just ignore any other part of the info you get from this. voltage value is of no value with a narrow band outside of 14.64:1 ratios.
Bottom line.. A wideband will tell you where you are. A narrow band will tell you if you should be there!
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/22/14 12:11 AM

I never tried to run a narrow band on a race engine
but it might be something to look at
Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/22/14 12:39 AM

Our 4 stage, dry nitrous 738 runs to a target A/F ratio of 12:8.1. That's where it runs the best and the plugs come out REALLY clean. Richer slows it down. We have been 178 in the 1/8 on 4 small kits

Monte
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Monte Smith ? - 12/22/14 12:48 AM

Quote:

Our 4 stage, dry nitrous 738 runs to a target A/F ratio of 12:8.1. That's where it runs the best and the plugs come out REALLY clean. Richer slows it down. We have been 178 in the 1/8 on 4 small kits

Monte



Monte.. read up a few post and see what I said about
the Global down load.. thanks
© 2024 Moparts Forums