FORD 8.8 REAR................

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The Buick we currently race in Drag Radial, had a 10 bolt under it when we bought it. The car had run 5.50s with small blocks when we bought it and our big block made it a 5.20 car right off the bat. We ran the 10 bolt until we broke it (which wasn't long). The point was, the car "evolved" from a streeter to a low 5 sec car and the 10 bolt was "good enough" to a point.......then it wasn't.........so in Dom's case, moving from an 8.75 TO an 8.8 under his car........well he may as well light that money on fire, because it will accomplish the same thing.

Monte

Just curious Monte, what rear is in that Buick?

Chromoly 9" sheetmetal Ford housing, with 40 spline gun drilled axles, alum Mark Williams center, with a 3.70 Pro gear and a billet 1350 yoke with a solid joint............expensive? yeah I guess, but high power, hard hooking radial cars will break EVERYTHING. Radial cars are harder on drive line parts by FAR than slick tire cars. That said, we have NEVER broken a single part in the rear...........Several radial guys I know this year were twisting and breaking 40 spline axles. That's how hard these cars can be on parts.

Monte

If thats the case, then move up to a Dana 70, 10.5" ring gear, 35 spline axles, 3.5 tubes with .5 wall thickness, looks like a 60 but on steroids inside! 1401 ujoints and a bunch of ratio's up to 7.17 to 1 Tim

Oh I love getting on here. Twisting 40 spline axles and should go back to 35 spline and add 150 lbs in the process. That is exactly what they should do. I think you should call all the big chassis shops and get them all on board with the dana 70 movement also. You better buy up all the parts they are going to be flying off the shelf.

heck I am heading to the junk yard today to see if I can find a dump truck rear to put in mine

Make sure you get the 2 speed axel, that will help your little SB

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/29/14 06:44 AM

Even with all of their aftermarket support, they still have a smaller pinion than a Dana 44, that is why I would upgrade to a 70, cheap, lots of choices and easy to build. All of the big truck manufacturers used them, AMC, IHC, Ford, Chevy, GMC, Dodge, etc. Could not have been that bad for all of them to use them in their heavy duty applications.
Some info comparing a truck 70 vs 60
http://www.billavista.com/tech/Articles/Dana_70_Rear_Axle/index.html

Yeah they work great in trucks.. my truck has one
but they arent for race cars or street rods... HEAVY
and have 3/8" thick tubes at OVER 3.5"

Posted By: astjp2

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/29/14 06:56 AM

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Even with all of their aftermarket support, they still have a smaller pinion than a Dana 44, that is why I would upgrade to a 70, cheap, lots of choices and easy to build. All of the big truck manufacturers used them, AMC, IHC, Ford, Chevy, GMC, Dodge, etc. Could not have been that bad for all of them to use them in their heavy duty applications.
Some info comparing a truck 70 vs 60
http://www.billavista.com/tech/Articles/Dana_70_Rear_Axle/index.html

Yeah they work great in trucks.. my truck has one
but they arent for race cars or street rods... HEAVY
and have 3/8" thick tubes at OVER 3.5"

My B-body width 70 housing weighed 68#, 3# over a comparable 60..but I am from the "go big or go home" mentality, that is why I have one behind my 572 hemi...Tim

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/29/14 07:03 AM

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Even with all of their aftermarket support, they still have a smaller pinion than a Dana 44, that is why I would upgrade to a 70, cheap, lots of choices and easy to build. All of the big truck manufacturers used them, AMC, IHC, Ford, Chevy, GMC, Dodge, etc. Could not have been that bad for all of them to use them in their heavy duty applications.
Some info comparing a truck 70 vs 60
http://www.billavista.com/tech/Articles/Dana_70_Rear_Axle/index.html

Yeah they work great in trucks.. my truck has one
but they arent for race cars or street rods... HEAVY
and have 3/8" thick tubes at OVER 3.5"

My B-body width 70 housing weighed 68#, 3# over a comparable 60..but I am from the "go big or go home" mentality, that is why I have one behind my 572 hemi...Tim

Then you have to have the HD 60 housing to be within
3#... the HD has the big thick heavy tubes

Posted By: astjp2

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/29/14 07:08 AM

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Even with all of their aftermarket support, they still have a smaller pinion than a Dana 44, that is why I would upgrade to a 70, cheap, lots of choices and easy to build. All of the big truck manufacturers used them, AMC, IHC, Ford, Chevy, GMC, Dodge, etc. Could not have been that bad for all of them to use them in their heavy duty applications.
Some info comparing a truck 70 vs 60
http://www.billavista.com/tech/Articles/Dana_70_Rear_Axle/index.html

Yeah they work great in trucks.. my truck has one
but they arent for race cars or street rods... HEAVY
and have 3/8" thick tubes at OVER 3.5"

My B-body width 70 housing weighed 68#, 3# over a comparable 60..but I am from the "go big or go home" mentality, that is why I have one behind my 572 hemi...Tim

Then you have to have the HD 60 housing to be within
3#... the HD has the big thick heavy tubes

I think they were 1/2" wall tubes, almost indestructible...Must have been an HD...tim

Posted By: justinp61

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/29/14 06:09 PM

The only way I'd build a 9" is with a good aftermarket carrier. I have a buddy broke several factory nodular carriers before he went aftermarket. First he broke the pinion support so he updated that then he started busting the cases. It would spit that pretty pinion support and part of the case right out on the starting line.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/29/14 06:21 PM

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The only way I'd build a 9" is with a good aftermarket carrier. I have a buddy broke several factory nodular carriers before he went aftermarket. First he broke the pinion support so he updated that then he started busting the cases. It would spit that pretty pinion support and part of the case right out on the starting line.

I put a 9" in my Rampage.. put in the good parts for a
semi light car and low power... my P-Body has a 8 3/4
with the alum center.. but that car is light

Posted By: dmking

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/29/14 06:23 PM

i got a 9" from a merc that was mid 70s with the tow package.
i use to have a stock wab housing and now have the older strange
9" pro cast third member with 5/8 bolts. i have had it in since mid 90s
it went rite in no modds just drill the leaf spring holes for the bigger pin.
it is unbraced and doing well. it was a cheap find at easypull and save.
there is still a lot of money in to it between the gears spool axils
3rd member but it is nice that i have no worries for the times i have been running.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/29/14 06:55 PM

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The only way I'd build a 9" is with a good aftermarket carrier. I have a buddy broke several factory nodular carriers before he went aftermarket. First he broke the pinion support so he updated that then he started busting the cases. It would spit that pretty pinion support and part of the case right out on the starting line.

The one I`m considering has good axles, spool, gears etc. plus a Strange pumpkin.............

It`s a no brainer and I like drop out rears much better and there`s no negatives for me other than the 4.56`s but w/my taller slicks it may be ok.............

Posted By: justinp61

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/29/14 07:02 PM

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The only way I'd build a 9" is with a good aftermarket carrier. I have a buddy broke several factory nodular carriers before he went aftermarket. First he broke the pinion support so he updated that then he started busting the cases. It would spit that pretty pinion support and part of the case right out on the starting line.

The one I`m considering has good axles, spool, gears etc. plus a Strange pumpkin.............

Posted By: dmking

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/29/14 08:50 PM

my 30" tall slicks with 4.30s go across twards 7000rpm in this great air at cecil bout 133 to 134mph. 4.56 may be a good thing in the summer.

Attached picture 8345571-wheelsup.jpg

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/29/14 09:11 PM

Might be the hot ticket for 1/8 mile though.............

I never race in the summer so we`re good there.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/29/14 09:31 PM

I had a back braced 83/4 with posi and drum brakes, my Dana with spool and strange disc brakes is lighter.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/29/14 09:37 PM

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/29/14 09:45 PM

NOBODY argues the strength of a stock Dana, but for a RACE CAR, that makes a lot of torque, I don't care how thick and beefy the tubes are, you ARE going to bend them.....period, end of story. You can't properly support the axle tubes on a rear drop out style rear end. And any attempt to do so makes it even more heavy that it already is. Also, the DANA pinion is beefy, but the Ford has support on both ends of the pinion, so no matter how big the Dana pinion is, the FORD is BETTER supported and therefore stronger, as far as gear mesh. With a properly braced housing, a good center section and a good pinion support, a 9" style rear is virtually indestructible. And you need to look no further than the fastest door cars on the planet to realize this...............guys that continually break those rears, either DON'T have the right parts, or it is not set up right.

I have run 9" Ford style rears for 30 years in various cars. The ONLY things I have ever broken were a mini-spool and a couple "street" gear sets.

Now, for a street/strip car and also many race cars as well, there is no right or wrong, just depends on what you prefer. My preference is I DON'T want a truck rear end in my race car and am NOT going to use one. If you do, that's fine and obviously YOUR preference.

Monte

Posted By: WHITEDART

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/29/14 10:00 PM

if you run a stock floor pan you can't run the car very low with a 60 the pinion is to high.however9 inch pinion is much lower so the car can be quite a bit lower without the driveshaft hitting the trans tunnel

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/29/14 10:14 PM

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NOBODY argues the strength of a stock Dana, but for a RACE CAR, that makes a lot of torque, I don't care how thick and beefy the tubes are, you ARE going to bend them.....period, end of story. You can't properly support the axle tubes on a rear drop out style rear end. And any attempt to do so makes it even more heavy that it already is. Also, the DANA pinion is beefy, but the Ford has support on both ends of the pinion, so no matter how big the Dana pinion is, the FORD is BETTER supported and therefore stronger, as far as gear mesh. With a properly braced housing, a good center section and a good pinion support, a 9" style rear is virtually indestructible. And you need to look no further than the fastest door cars on the planet to realize this...............guys that continually break those rears, either DON'T have the right parts, or it is not set up right.

I have run 9" Ford style rears for 30 years in various cars. The ONLY things I have ever broken were a mini-spool and a couple "street" gear sets.

Now, for a street/strip car and also many race cars as well, there is no right or wrong, just depends on what you prefer. My preference is I DON'T want a truck rear end in my race car and am NOT going to use one. If you do, that's fine and obviously YOUR preference.

Monte

These are the reasons for my choice and it at least looks CLOSE to an 8 3/4..............

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/29/14 11:39 PM

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I am curious when did Chrysler buy Dana? What year did it happen must have missed it.

I don't quite understand the logic here. EVERY car maker out sources parts, period. It becomes a Mopar part when it is built specifically for a Mopar car.
If a Minneapolis Moline tractor rear were the best for an application, I'd run the darn thing. It doesn't mean anything to me what the power goes through, as long as the part is efficient and strong enough. Last time I looked, I had Wilwood brakes, a custom driveshaft, Indy heads, a crower crank, Gee, not much Mopar in that stuff. But it all works, and better than original parts.

Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/29/14 11:59 PM

I enjoy the statement that unlike a 9", a Dana 60 is a "truck" rear, when MILLIONS of Ford 9" rears were originally installed in trucks.

As if that means anything in the first place.

Posted By: racerx

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 12:48 AM

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if you run a stock floor pan you can't run the car very low with a 60 the pinion is to high.however9 inch pinion is much lower so the car can be quite a bit lower without the driveshaft hitting the trans tunnel

^^^This i'm going to have to look into this^^^as i'm thinking of doing a streetcar with a Dana

Posted By: Sport440

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 01:07 AM

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I enjoy the statement that unlike a 9", a Dana 60 is a "truck" rear, when MILLIONS of Ford 9" rears were originally installed in trucks.

As if that means anything in the first place.

Also there were thousands of danas rears installed into GTX,s Roadruners, Chargers ETC.

Dana60,s are just a stronger built axel that Mopar took advantage of, as did Ford.

They do have their place in our race cars. As do the Ford 9" and the mopar 8.75

But, I will agree if Dom has a good deal on a modified 9" he should get it.

A funny note, the First axel I ever Broke, was a 69 Ford 9" in 75. Blew out the caps with 4.56 gears in a 13 sec 351ci Windsor 69 Mach 1 mustang, when 3 of us took a Joy ride and did a 4000 rpm clutch dump on the street.

Not implying its a bad rear, as they aren't. I just think its funny that its the first rear I ever broke.

Posted By: justinp61

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 01:28 AM

I agree with Doc, there were millions of 9" rears installed in LIGHT duty trucks. They were good for what they were designed for. Heck I broke two with a low compression 400 Ford. I put a Strange S-60 in my Dart, technically it's not a Dana, but is an improved design and can use Dana parts. I went this route because it works for what I'm using it for. If I had a high hp car I go with a 9.5 ring gear set up instead of a 9".

Posted By: dogdays

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 01:54 AM

NO THERE WEREN'T millions of Dana 60s put into cars. Not even close.

There weren't even a million 440s put into vehicles, more like 750,000.

Also, better show me the dimensions of a Dana 44 ring gear, I am sure the first number is 8.

R.

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 02:35 AM

this thread is like a pinion angle thread

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 03:01 AM

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NO THERE WEREN'T millions of Dana 60s put into cars. Not even close.

There weren't even a million 440s put into vehicles, more like 750,000.

I thought the same thing when I read that.......was there REALLY MILLIONS put in cars???

Umm no....not on this planet.

Posted By: Sport440

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 03:15 AM

Dogdays, your right the number isn't Millions. But there were a lot. Don't know the exact number.

But, I wouldn't doubt that figure is up there with over 3 million 383,s 750,000 440,s XXXX of 426 Hemis , plus a couple million of 400,s, with some in cop cars with danas.

Since you brought it up, I would like to know the true Approximate amount of Dana 60,s that were installed in "Mopar Cars" over the years that mopar was using them. Those years from 66 to 71 or so.

Posted By: astjp2

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 03:48 AM

so if Ford thought it was such a good axle, why was the 9" only put in half ton trucks and not the 3/4 and 1 tons? Oh yeah because they had a stronger Dana 60 and 70's to put in. The 9 needs a back brace because most are only .125 wall stamped steel banjo assemblies and not 3/8" thick cast steel center sections...holding those 1/2" wall tubes together....

Posted By: astjp2

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 04:08 AM

When a Ford 9" grows up to be a big boy, it becomes one of these!

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 09:13 AM

I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer I guess, so I just want to make sure I have all this straight.

Mopar in no way shape or form, owns ANYTHING that has to do with DANA corp. But Mopar realized that their "in house" rear, the 8.75 would not cut the mustard in their hi-po cars, so they contracted DANA to build a passenger car version of their vaunted DANA 60, to handle the power. The same design rear that has been installed in thousands and thousands of vehicles over the years, including GM, Ford, International and about any other maker you can think of. So to keep a Mopar a "real" Mopar, requires the install of a DANA.....ok, got that.

And it appears that my 9" Ford rear in my race car, is not a "real" Ford rear end, because it has all aftermarket parts even though the basic design in still 100% Ford.

My aftermarket powerglide, which is a GM designed trans, is not a "real" GM trans, because it has no factory internals.

And my all aftermarket Mopar motor, with INDY block, B-1 heads and not the FIRST part that actually came from Mopar, IS INDEED a "real" Mopar, because it is based on a Mopar "design"..............is that about the gist of it? Just want to make sure I am all correct here................LOL!!!.

Monte

Posted By: mopardamo

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 10:06 AM

Monte,

You are strong about your concern for us that the "real or 100%" Mopar thing is just a stumbling block for racing. We know you are a MOPAR GUY through and through. Thank You! This is the racing forum and you are not just a bit correct but completely correct! On this forum there should be a real discussion about what is needed to pummel the other two. Limitations are not what racing is about. I visit here regularly to absorb knowledge. My stuff is a joke compared to most and I know that. Competition makes us hard, sometimes too hard. Many of us are kings of our worlds. Egos are out their(yours too). Your tech info truly outweighs the political stuff. Please don't get too tangled up in the junk of others.

Damon

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 10:20 AM

Oh this stuff don't bother me at all Damo......LOL!!!........in fact I find it quite humorous as to how often some people talk out both sides of their mouth, when it comes to what is REAL and what isn't. And sometimes I like to just stir the pot because I am bored and some people get SO fired up........LOL!!!

Dom has made it quite clear that he is NOT going to put a DANA under his car, because he doesn't want, nor like them.........yet that doesn't seem to keep some from trying to "shame" him into putting one under it.........and to what point...........just let it go. They should just fix their cars how they want and the rest of us will do the same. At the end of the day, they are still ALL Mopars and isn't that what counts?

Bottom line, I do what I want with MY stuff and really don't care if people like it or not. I just try and give sound advice, gathered in 30+ years in this deal. But all this "purist" nonsense, is exactly that, nonsense. You should use what is best for the task at hand, I don't care who makes it or designed it. I used to tell people my car had a RAMBLER motor..........may as well have been........LOL!!!

Monte

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 12:16 PM

Oh this stuff don't bother me at all Damo......LOL!!!........in fact I find it quite humorous

It is good entertainment

And of course, there is some decent advice in here as well.

Posted By: dvw

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 03:09 PM

Back to the original question. What does it take to run an 8.8? Axles, spool and ???? What level of power and weight do they seem to live at? We were thinking of running one in the new turbo car instead of a Dana due to available ratios.
Doug

Posted By: mshred

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 08:02 PM

To be honest, I built a Dana 60 for my car back when it was a stickshift and I kept breaking 8-3/4 parts. I chose the Dana because I felt I could build it for cheap, and because I knew they came with pretty beefy factory posi units which I wanted to keep for a street car.

Thinking back though now that my car has become more "race oriented", a 9" seems like the way to go...Dropout third member, spool, good axles, and ring and pinion and your set...backbrace if you want to. Sometimes it just makes sense to use what is popular because, well, it is usually popular for a reason

That said, why the heck are people arguing about what was put in trucks for strength? Trucks don't care about weight when building for HD, but race cars do! With that logic, we should all have the corporate GM 14 bolts in our race cars

Different strokes for different folks

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 08:30 PM

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To be honest, I built a Dana 60 for my car back when it was a stickshift and I kept breaking 8-3/4 parts. I chose the Dana because I felt I could build it for cheap, and because I knew they came with pretty beefy factory posi units which I wanted to keep for a street car.

Thinking back though now that my car has become more "race oriented", a 9" seems like the way to go...Dropout third member, spool, good axles, and ring and pinion and your set...backbrace if you want to. Sometimes it just makes sense to use what is popular because, well, it is usually popular for a reason

That said, why the heck are people arguing about what was put in trucks for strength? Trucks don't care about weight when building for HD, but race cars do! With that logic, we should all have the corporate GM 14 bolts in our race cars

Different strokes for different folks

The reason, and I don't know how this EVER got started, is that there is a HUGE contingent of people out there, who think that ANY part that is not a mopar part, makes your car LESS of a Mopar for some reason. Every time these type threads come up, the "haters" come out. We get the "I would NEVER put a Ford under my car"............."I would NEVER put a glide in my car"............"I would NEVER use a one wire alt"........."I would NEVER run a cowl hood" and a long list of other things they would NEVER do. And it seems if you don't agree with that mentality, that not only makes your car "less" of a Mopar, but also labels you as not a REAL mopar guy.............

Aftermarket parts, that make your car BETTER, are aftermarket parts.........who gives a damn who made or designed them. Some guys that preach the above "NEVERS" have mono-leafs and Cal-Traks. Whats up with that. I don't recall seeing a factory Mopar with that setup, but for some reason that's fine. And the list of that type stuff goes on and on. I mean we have aftermarket K-members, SB-2......er I mean P-5 cylinder head motors, rack and pinion steering, coil overs, ladder bars and a myriad of normal type HOT ROD mods and that's all good, but heaven forbid you choose not to run the mighty DANA and 727 in your hot rod. And if you choose to not only use but praise the benefits of other brand parts........that REALLY puts you on the outside..............LOL!!!

Monte

Posted By: mshred

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 08:36 PM

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Quote:

To be honest, I built a Dana 60 for my car back when it was a stickshift and I kept breaking 8-3/4 parts. I chose the Dana because I felt I could build it for cheap, and because I knew they came with pretty beefy factory posi units which I wanted to keep for a street car.

Thinking back though now that my car has become more "race oriented", a 9" seems like the way to go...Dropout third member, spool, good axles, and ring and pinion and your set...backbrace if you want to. Sometimes it just makes sense to use what is popular because, well, it is usually popular for a reason

That said, why the heck are people arguing about what was put in trucks for strength? Trucks don't care about weight when building for HD, but race cars do! With that logic, we should all have the corporate GM 14 bolts in our race cars

Different strokes for different folks

The reason, and I don't know how this EVER got started, is that there is a HUGE contingent of people out there, who think that ANY part that is not a mopar part, makes your car LESS of a Mopar for some reason. Every time these type threads come up, the "haters" come out. We get the "I would NEVER put a Ford under my car"............."I would NEVER put a glide in my car"............"I would NEVER use a one wire alt"........."I would NEVER run a cowl hood" and a long list of other things they would NEVER do. And it seems if you don't agree with that mentality, that not only makes your car "less" of a Mopar, but also labels you as not a REAL mopar guy.............

Aftermarket parts, that make your car BETTER, are aftermarket parts.........who gives a damn who made or designed them. Some guys that preach the above "NEVERS" have mono-leafs and Cal-Traks. Whats up with that. I don't recall seeing a factory Mopar with that setup, but for some reason that's fine. And the list of that type stuff goes on and on. I mean we have aftermarket K-members, SB-2......er I mean P-5 cylinder head motors, rack and pinion steering, coil overs, ladder bars and a myriad of normal type HOT ROD mods and that's all good, but heaven forbid you choose not to run the mighty DANA and 727 in your hot rod. And if you choose to not only use but praise the benefits of other brand parts........that REALLY puts you on the outside..............LOL!!!

Monte

I agree with you Monte! The Mopar purist thing really annoys the hell outta me...I remember when I first put the cowl hood on my scamp, a few of the mopar guys I knew at a local cruise in that I showed up to here and there looked at me and said "You like that hood, eh?"...I just "unmopared" my Mopar in their eyes! Of course I replied that I LOVED it, which they found confusing

I went with the D-60 because at the time I was under the impression and belief that the Dana was stronger, so was its factory posi, and I was actually able to build it cheap like I had planned. Little did I know down the road that I would become addicted to racing (just like my dad said! LOL) and that weight would matter and one day I might be putting a spool in, which makes the dana vs 9" debate moot to me now.

Happy with what I have as it has not given me one single problem since putting it in the car, and it shouldn't either for the next little while...One day though I might have to make a switch to something that just works better or lasts, and whether or not that is a "mopar" part means sweet F-all to me LOL

Posted By: littleVAL

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 08:41 PM

I prefer other rear ends over the 9 inch because of the pinion angle/location. It produces more friction/heat and with the lower power that I make I won't have problems breaking an 8 3/4 and if I did I would just go dana 60 because I already have one.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 09:06 PM

I have a 1 wire alt oh snap...

Posted By: tubtar

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 09:44 PM

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A funny note, the First axel I ever Broke, was a 69 Ford 9" in 75. Blew out the caps with 4.56 gears in a 13 sec 351ci Windsor 69 Mach 1 mustang, when 3 of us took a Joy ride and did a 4000 rpm clutch dump on the street.

Weird. Mine first one went the other way.
'65 Cyclone with a 302 and top loader......4.11's
Dropped the hammer and as near as I could tell , it hooked and the pinion spit forward , shelling the case , twisting the drive shaft in half and for an instant left me wondering what that horrible sound was.

Those were 28 spline stock pieces and they probably twisted some , but never broke.
I am not the purist I should be I guess.
I am a big 9" Ford fan , and when my 8 3/4 takes a vacation that is what will replace it.
But I need to get the car to hook before I have to worry about that.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 11:00 PM

Quote:

I prefer other rear ends over the 9 inch because of the pinion angle/location. It produces more friction/heat and with the lower power that I make I won't have problems breaking an 8 3/4 and if I did I would just go dana 60 because I already have one.

I`ll sell ya mine..................AND I`ll even deliver.

We live a few miles apart..............

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 11:43 PM

Quote:

I have a 1 wire alt oh snap...

I still dislike the 1 wire alts... (no matter what company)..
to me its a WASTE of money to change out a alt when
the regulator goes out... I run a external regulator
on ALL of my junk.. I can change out a regulator in
a minute... if its the problem.. and in a lot of times
it is.... other than that I use what works.. I have
a 9" in the Rampage and a alum center 8 3/4 in the
race car.. they work for me

Posted By: Wicked49670dart

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 11/30/14 11:56 PM

On my Dart I did bend the axle tubes on my non-back braced 83/4 last year. I noticed that my rear tires were scuffing on the outside edges. I sent my housing to Moser to get straightened and back braced.

I bought a new set of MT tires, the same size and made some passes. My car ran the quickest so far, 1.34 60ft, 9.76@135. Has Moser axles and spool, so far so good and this is in a 3400 car!

Thumper your car is very impressive, whats your plan on the upgrade MW parts? Matt

Posted By: Sport440

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/01/14 12:15 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Has nothing to do w/Chrysler to me just don`t like the looks but ya never know.............

Everybody says use a mopar rear like a Dana 60, just wondering when mopar bought them?

Everybody, ??? one person implied, like out of 30, that is was a Mopar rear. Another person stated its a Truck rear.

Well, I think Most know its a DANA 60 , Made by Dana corp and used in both cars and trucks.

We don't need to be splitting hairs here, like some are doing.

As far as Im concerned, the Dana 60 can both be considered a Mopar "type" rear and a "truck" type rear. From its extensive use in Both.

When modified it can be considered a Race type rear, as well as the Ford 9" passenger/truck rear when modified.

I do understand through time that the Ford based 9" has made its way up to the "cream of the crop", when it comes to race rears with aftermarket parts.

Even with that said, While Ive never used one, ive heard and read good things about the 8.8 rears. I think Billy Glidden was using a Modified one.

Others have posted that there behind 634ci 5 second rides.

So this Thread about the 8.8 does have its Merits. I don think it should just be Dismissed right out of the gate. Lets get back to that

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/01/14 01:42 AM

So this Thread about the 8.8 does have its Merits. I don think it should just be Dismissed right out of the gate. Lets get back to that

I agree. A list of mods depending on performance level would be great.
What needs to be done after good axles are in, and a spool? Pro gears? rear girdle?
My 8.8 works great under the blue(street) 65 Dart, but I doubt it would hold up long with stock guts in the orange car!

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/01/14 03:16 AM

Quote:

On my Dart I did bend the axle tubes on my non-back braced 83/4 last year. I noticed that my rear tires were scuffing on the outside edges. I sent my housing to Moser to get straightened and back braced.

I bought a new set of MT tires, the same size and made some passes. My car ran the quickest so far, 1.34 60ft, [Email]9.76@135.[/Email] Has Moser axles and spool, so far so good and this is in a 3400 car!

Thumper your car is very impressive, whats your plan on the upgrade MW parts? Matt

I know, part of me sez keep the 8 3/4 and get new gears and axles and beat it but I`d like to go Max-wedge next year after I see what it runs now and see how fast it will go. OR,

I may freshen it up again w/a lighter NEWER rotating assembly and go from there. Lots to think about and I need an N.H.R.A. lic. and 8.50 cert if I want to continue racing at tracks............

Posted By: ProSport

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/01/14 03:40 AM

I ran the 9" in the DartSport and loved it, mostly just because it had a removable center section like an 8.75". Also had a drain plug in the bottom and a fill plug up top, I changed the fluid every spring and never worried about the rearend. This thing has made a million 9 second passes.

Attached picture 8347286-100_1762b.jpg

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/01/14 04:07 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I have a 1 wire alt oh snap...

I still dislike the 1 wire alts... (no matter what company)..
to me its a WASTE of money to change out a alt when
the regulator goes out... I run a external regulator
on ALL of my junk.. I can change out a regulator in
a minute... if its the problem.. and in a lot of times
it is.... other than that I use what works.. I have
a 9" in the Rampage and a alum center 8 3/4 in the
race car.. they work for me

glad you are a little better, but doesn't that give you 2 things that can go bad instead og 1?

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/01/14 04:28 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I have a 1 wire alt oh snap...

I still dislike the 1 wire alts... (no matter what company)..
to me its a WASTE of money to change out a alt when
the regulator goes out... I run a external regulator
on ALL of my junk.. I can change out a regulator in
a minute... if its the problem.. and in a lot of times
it is.... other than that I use what works.. I have
a 9" in the Rampage and a alum center 8 3/4 in the
race car.. they work for me

glad you are a little better, but doesn't that give you 2 things that can go bad instead og 1?

Well the 8 3/4 works a lot better than my heart

Posted By: Sport440

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/01/14 04:42 AM

Quote:

I ran the 9" in the DartSport and loved it, mostly just because it had a removable center section like an 8.75". Also had a drain plug in the bottom and a fill plug up top, I changed the fluid every spring and never worried about the rearend.

This thing has made a million 9 second passes.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/01/14 05:00 AM

From Wikipedia......."The Dana 60 rear axle was first introduced in 1955 as a full floating axle in Ford F-250's and is still used today.
Manufactured in both full float and semi float variations. The semi float axles have GAWR up to 5,500 lbs and the full float axles were rated up to 6,500 lbs.
Full floating variants are common while Semi-floating axles exist, but are less common. Axle spline count varies, with 30 spline being the most common."

"The Dana/Spicer Model 60 is an automotive axle manufactured by Dana Corp. and used in OEM "heavy duty" pickup applications by Chevrolet, Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep and Ford. Various construction companies use this axle. There are front and rear versions of the Dana 60. It can be readily identified by its straight axle tubes, 10 bolt asymmetrical cover, and a "60" cast in to the housing

FACTORY installed in the following vehicles

Studebaker
1956�1964 E123⁄4t and E14 1t

Dodge
1966�1970 Coronet & R/T
1966�1972 Charger & R/T
1968�1972 Super Bee
1970�1971 Challenger
1963�1993 Dodge Ram 250 and 350
1994�2002 Dodge Ram 2500 (V8 Only)
2004�2006 Dodge Ram SRT-10

Plymouth
1966 Belvedere
1966 Satellite
1968�1972 Road Runner
1967�1971 GTX
1970�1971 'Cuda

Ford
1955�1985 Ford 3⁄4-ton Trucks
1955�1976 Ford 1 Ton Trucks
1980�2012 Ford E200/E250/E350 vans

Ford UK
1973�1982 Ford A0406 Truck (option)

Chevrolet
1964�1977 Chevrolet and GMC 3/4-ton pickups
1975�1987 Chevrolet and GMC 1-ton pickups and Suburbans
1979�2012 Chevrolet and GMC 1-ton vans

Jeep
1968�1973 Jeep J3800/J4800 Camper Truck (full float 30 spline)
1968�1970 Jeep J-2600/J2700/J3600/J3700 (semi float 30 & 35 spline)
1971�1973 Jeep J4000/4600/J4700 (semi float 35 spline)
1974�1988 Jeep J20 (full float 30 spline
g. Gross axle weight ratings are often lowered by the vehicle manufacturer for safety and tire reasons."

So there are a few facts............LOL!!!

Now, back to the original question on the 8.8. This rear suffers the fate on any other "rear service" type rearend in a race car application. You CAN'T possibly put enough bracing on the housing to support the axle tubes and keep them from bending. As far as aftermarket parts, you can get as large as a 35 spline spool. Gears are common numbers. The ring gear is obviously 8.8, which is larger than 8.75, but an inch smaller than DANA. In high HP applications, other than bending tubes, the weakness is shelling gears because of pinion flex in the case, as the case does not have the sheer mass of the DANA. So while it can be built to be stronger in the case area than an 8.75, bent tubes are a problem.............so pick your posion.............LOL!

Monte

Posted By: moparniac

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/01/14 04:27 PM

So monte, to the OPs original question it seems the 8.8 is not really an ugrade over the 8 3/4.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/01/14 05:45 PM

I think the 8.8 can take more power than the 8.75 before it shells the gear. The problem is bracing the housing...............So for a street/strip car, it is probably a wash. One no better than the other

Monte

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/02/14 03:01 AM

Quote:

So monte, to the OPs original question it seems the 8.8 is not really an ugrade over the 8 3/4.

The only advantage is the gears made for 8.8 rears.

Posted By: n20mstr

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/02/14 03:30 AM

My sons car has an 8.8 from an explorer. Why ? It was 150.00 from the junkyard, had disc brakes, and 4.10 gears with posi. All we did was cut the perches off and weld new ones on. We didn't even change the oil ! It's been repeated 11 teens and prob a couple hundred 11.50 passes (11.50 index car) what's funny is 150.00 rear ended, with 600.00 Afco double adjustables....lol

If the car gets more serious, i t will get a 9" but one like my car has, all aftermarket....lol

Posted By: HEMI472

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/02/14 09:02 AM

Quote:

From Wikipedia......."The Dana 60 rear axle was first introduced in 1955 as a full floating axle in Ford F-250's and is still used today.
Manufactured in both full float and semi float variations. The semi float axles have GAWR up to 5,500 lbs and the full float axles were rated up to 6,500 lbs.
Full floating variants are common while Semi-floating axles exist, but are less common. Axle spline count varies, with 30 spline being the most common."

"The Dana/Spicer Model 60 is an automotive axle manufactured by Dana Corp. and used in OEM "heavy duty" pickup applications by Chevrolet, Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep and Ford. Various construction companies use this axle. There are front and rear versions of the Dana 60. It can be readily identified by its straight axle tubes, 10 bolt asymmetrical cover, and a "60" cast in to the housing

FACTORY installed in the following vehicles

Studebaker
1956�1964 E123⁄4t and E14 1t

Dodge
1966�1970 Coronet & R/T
1966�1972 Charger & R/T
1968�1972 Super Bee
1970�1971 Challenger
1963�1993 Dodge Ram 250 and 350
1994�2002 Dodge Ram 2500 (V8 Only)
2004�2006 Dodge Ram SRT-10

Plymouth
1966 Belvedere
1966 Satellite
1968�1972 Road Runner
1967�1971 GTX
1970�1971 'Cuda

Ford
1955�1985 Ford 3⁄4-ton Trucks
1955�1976 Ford 1 Ton Trucks
1980�2012 Ford E200/E250/E350 vans

Ford UK
1973�1982 Ford A0406 Truck (option)

Chevrolet
1964�1977 Chevrolet and GMC 3/4-ton pickups
1975�1987 Chevrolet and GMC 1-ton pickups and Suburbans
1979�2012 Chevrolet and GMC 1-ton vans

Jeep
1968�1973 Jeep J3800/J4800 Camper Truck (full float 30 spline)
1968�1970 Jeep J-2600/J2700/J3600/J3700 (semi float 30 & 35 spline)
1971�1973 Jeep J4000/4600/J4700 (semi float 35 spline)
1974�1988 Jeep J20 (full float 30 spline
g. Gross axle weight ratings are often lowered by the vehicle manufacturer for safety and tire reasons."

So there are a few facts............LOL!!!
interesting looks like ford used the dana in 3/4 ton trucks and bigger up to 4 tons. so why did they do that if the 9 nich is so great and they used them in 1/2 ton trucks and broncos?

Posted By: justinp61

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/02/14 03:58 PM

My 2000 F-250 had a Dana 50 front and a Sterling 10.5" rear.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/02/14 04:04 PM

interesting looks like ford used the dana in 3/4 ton trucks and bigger up to 4 tons. so why did they do that if the 9 nich is so great and they used them in 1/2 ton trucks and broncos?

Because the axle tubes would bend.. just like the 8 3/4

Posted By: justinp61

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/02/14 05:32 PM

Quote:

interesting looks like ford used the dana in 3/4 ton trucks and bigger up to 4 tons. so why did they do that if the 9 nich is so great and they used them in 1/2 ton trucks and broncos?

Because the axle tubes would bend.. just like the 8 3/4

The two 9" that I broke both broke around the rear support bearing. Only bent one housing and it started collapsing where the spring perches were welded on. I don't recall the axles being any trouble to get out though. These were in a 79 four wheel drive with a 400, four speed and 32-10.5 tires.

Posted By: HEMI472

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/02/14 07:03 PM

well you would have thought all the ford engineers they would have came up with a way to fix there housing instead of buying complete rears from dana

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/02/14 07:12 PM

Quote:

well you would have thought all the ford engineers they would have came up with a way to fix there housing instead of buying complete rears from dana

Well.. if people buy a new truck and see some steel
hanging off the back of the rear end they tend to
think things arent right and its a bandaid... people
get a bit weird that way... I dont know how many
times I was asked why is there a big chunk of steel
hanging off the trans(a harmonics damper)
EDIT
That rear end was designed to be a car/light truck
rear end and not the heavy duty stuff

Posted By: BBR

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/02/14 07:31 PM

8.8's are decent stuff IMO and they would be at the top of my list if I needed to convert a 7.5" diff'd A-body to a beefier rear.

My Mustang has stock Ford 3.55 gears, stock Traction-Lok (set up with alternating clutches), welded tubes, c-clip eliminators, and Motive 28 spline axles. Car weighs 3450 at the line and runs 10.40's @ 130. High 1.4's/low 1.5's in the 60.

The 28's have held up great thus far, knock on wood. lol I do have a set of 33's I will install with a spool at some point because I don't expect those 28's to live forever.

ymmv

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/02/14 07:32 PM

Quote:

well you would have thought all the ford engineers they would have came up with a way to fix there housing instead of buying complete rears from dana

Where is the logic in that?........Why didn't Chrysler design another rear instead of buying DANAs?.......For the same reason Ford didn't. Why engineer and tool up to make, what you can easily BUY. Why would ANY auto maker design a heavy duty "truck specific" rear, when you can already buy one of the best made, the DANA. The 9" came into play around the mid 50s, but they were designing a pass car and light truck rear, not a heavy duty truck rear, because they could get that from DANA. Same as Chevy, International, Studebaker, Chrysler and others.

Chrysler DID update the 8.75 from the small pinion rear that it was, to the larger unit for its hi-po cars, but obviously they didn't feel it stout enough for big block and HEMI cars, so they sourced DANA to build a pass car model. Ford on the other hand, felt their 9" WAS strong enough for their hi-po cars with a few upgrades, so they came out with the 31 spline, locker, nodular case, with better pinion support model, which WAS an extremely stout factory rear.

All 8.75s are not created the same and neither are 9" rears. While run of the mill 9s were weak, the hi-po model that came under super cars and some trucks and vans, was NOT. Same with 8.75s. The small pinion A-body type 8.75 is weak as water, but the larger pinion models are MUCH stronger, but still not nearly as strong as the BEST 9" rear. You have to compare apples to apples.

So, is the 9" as good and heavy as a DANA for a heavy duty truck app..........NO, because it was not designed to be that.

Monte

Posted By: STEFF

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/02/14 07:46 PM

Fast Forward to 2014, Chrysler doesn't design or build Axles for any of their cars or trucks anymore. They buy them all from suppliers......Americam Axle, ZF, GKN, Dana etc....

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/02/14 07:52 PM

Quote:

well you would have thought all the ford engineers they would have came up with a way to fix there housing instead of buying complete rears from dana

Can you get a chromoly dana 60?

Posted By: HEMI472

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/02/14 09:20 PM

Chrysler DID update the 8.75 from the small pinion rear that it was, to the larger unit for its hi-po cars, but obviously they didn't feel it stout enough for big block and HEMI cars, so they sourced DANA to build a pass car model. Ford on the other hand, felt their 9" WAS strong enough for their hi-po cars with a few upgrades, so they came out with the 31 spline, locker, nodular case, with better pinion support model, which WAS an extremely stout factory rear.

All 8.75s are not created the same and neither are 9" rears. While run of the mill 9s were weak, the hi-po model that came under super cars and some trucks and vans, was NOT. Same with 8.75s. The small pinion A-body type 8.75 is weak as water, but the larger pinion models are MUCH stronger, but still not nearly as strong as the BEST 9" rear. You have to compare apples to apples.

So, is the 9" as good and heavy as a DANA for a heavy duty truck app..........NO, because it was not designed to be that.
so they tooled up to make everything else better? fixed everything but the housing

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/02/14 09:46 PM

I was gonna stay out of this but got to throw in that the "small pinion" 8.75 is NOT weak like the ford 9 inch that came behind a lot of weak junk ford engines witch most were. Never hear of guys breaking the pinion just the caps mostly but all 3 main mopar diffs are very strong un-like the ford. The good factory ford 9 inch is rare. A 318 2bbl b body came with a good 8.75 unlike a 302 2bbl ford. And mopar did put more 8.75 behind hemis then dana, mostly just manual cars.

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/03/14 04:42 AM

Quote:

Chrysler DID update the 8.75 from the small pinion rear that it was, to the larger unit for its hi-po cars, but obviously they didn't feel it stout enough for big block and HEMI cars, so they sourced DANA to build a pass car model. Ford on the other hand, felt their 9" WAS strong enough for their hi-po cars with a few upgrades, so they came out with the 31 spline, locker, nodular case, with better pinion support model, which WAS an extremely stout factory rear.

All 8.75s are not created the same and neither are 9" rears. While run of the mill 9s were weak, the hi-po model that came under super cars and some trucks and vans, was NOT. Same with 8.75s. The small pinion A-body type 8.75 is weak as water, but the larger pinion models are MUCH stronger, but still not nearly as strong as the BEST 9" rear. You have to compare apples to apples.

So, is the 9" as good and heavy as a DANA for a heavy duty truck app..........NO, because it was not designed to be that.
so they tooled up to make everything else better? fixed everything but the housing

But who wants heavy for a race car? Just doesn't make sense.

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/03/14 04:55 AM

Quote:

Fast Forward to 2014, Chrysler doesn't design or build Axles for any of their cars or trucks anymore. They buy them all from suppliers......Americam Axle, ZF, GKN, Dana etc....

And the reason is probably how many units they need, versus cost to tool up for a new design.
For a limited number needed, like the 60s 6pak and Hemi cars, I'm sure it must have been cheaper to contract Dana for the axles.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/03/14 05:00 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Chrysler DID update the 8.75 from the small pinion rear that it was, to the larger unit for its hi-po cars, but obviously they didn't feel it stout enough for big block and HEMI cars, so they sourced DANA to build a pass car model. Ford on the other hand, felt their 9" WAS strong enough for their hi-po cars with a few upgrades, so they came out with the 31 spline, locker, nodular case, with better pinion support model, which WAS an extremely stout factory rear.

All 8.75s are not created the same and neither are 9" rears. While run of the mill 9s were weak, the hi-po model that came under super cars and some trucks and vans, was NOT. Same with 8.75s. The small pinion A-body type 8.75 is weak as water, but the larger pinion models are MUCH stronger, but still not nearly as strong as the BEST 9" rear. You have to compare apples to apples.

So, is the 9" as good and heavy as a DANA for a heavy duty truck app..........NO, because it was not designed to be that.
so they tooled up to make everything else better? fixed everything but the housing

But who wants heavy for a race car? Just doesn't make sense.

None of these arguments make sense........LOL!!!...........they just want to argue because some of us like a Ford rear better than most Mopar rears and that makes us less of a Mopar guy I guess.

Like the guy harping on the fact that the 9" housing wasn't updated.........why?, what would be the point. The webbed housing was plenty strong for what it was designed for and the smaller housing(that the street rod guys like) was plenty good enough for the cars it was installed under.

As far as the nodular iron Ford center being hard to find........so what? E-body DANAs are hard to find to, so whats the point? At one time the Nodular centers were easy to find, as not only did they come under Cobra-Jet cars, they were also under trucks and vans. At one time I had over a dozen that I had found in wrecking yards, that I paid about 25 bucks a piece for the whole chunk. Wish I had them now............LOL!!!

Monte

Posted By: HEMI472

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/03/14 07:34 AM

the point is that they up graded everything else because it was weak and they knew it or they would not have up graded the center section and axels just like the 8 3/4 but they must have got to the point where they knew the dana was better so they just went with the dana. they both had money in the upgrade so why not just fix the housing? if it was better?

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/03/14 08:46 AM

Quote:

the point is that they up graded everything else because it was weak and they knew it or they would not have up graded the center section and axels just like the 8 3/4 but they must have got to the point where they knew the dana was better so they just went with the dana. they both had money in the upgrade so why not just fix the housing? if it was better?

What part of "it was not designed to be a HD truck rear" are you not understanding. The housing was FINE in the applications the rear was designed for.........

Monte

Posted By: HEMI472

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/03/14 09:17 AM

a dana 30 was great for what it was designed for. a hemi car or a 440 six pack car is not a hd truck. ok I got you the nine inch was only good for a stock car but the dana 60 was good for cars ands hd trucks up to 4 tons. it look like the dana is better to me lol

Posted By: slantzilla

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/03/14 09:47 AM

Nodular housings could also be found in '70s Grand Marquis and LTD's with 429 and 460 motors. Buddy of mine got bunches of them parting out big boats.

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/03/14 12:28 PM

Quote:

Nodular housings could also be found in '70s Grand Marquis and LTD's with 429 and 460 motors. Buddy of mine got bunches of them parting out big boats.

I found one in a mach 1 mustang one time, bought the whole thing for $200 bucks. fit right in my RR.put a mini spool in it and ran it for years after breaking a few 8-3/4s with the same car.

Posted By: MattW

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/03/14 02:48 PM

Here we go again!!!!!!! LOL
So the real question is this.
How much $$$ does it take to modify an 9 to fit into an A Body?
Taking into account you have 650 ft/lbs of torque.
Running drag radials and it weights 3200 with driver?
Street car and occasional drag.
Was on Mark Williams web page and a complete 9 rear was 3700 to 6000

What upgrades do you guys recommend for the above combo?
Matt

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/03/14 04:01 PM

Quote:

a dana 30 was great for what it was designed for. a hemi car or a 440 six pack car is not a hd truck. ok I got you the nine inch was only good for a stock car but the dana 60 was good for cars ands hd trucks up to 4 tons. it look like the dana is better to me lol

There is not a 4 ton truck on the planet that runs a dana 60, and I would be willing to bet to that fact. It was a 3/4 ton rear. Its was more cost effective to do a dana 60 then to invest the money reengineering the 9 inch for a hd truck that all. It was a dollar amount that made that decision not a strenght issue. This is not hard to understand.
Why are you dead set on putting a heavier rear in a race car?

Posted By: cudadon

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/03/14 06:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The Buick we currently race in Drag Radial, had a 10 bolt under it when we bought it. The car had run 5.50s with small blocks when we bought it and our big block made it a 5.20 car right off the bat. We ran the 10 bolt until we broke it (which wasn't long). The point was, the car "evolved" from a streeter to a low 5 sec car and the 10 bolt was "good enough" to a point.......then it wasn't.........so in Dom's case, moving from an 8.75 TO an 8.8 under his car........well he may as well light that money on fire, because it will accomplish the same thing.

Monte

Just curious Monte, what rear is in that Buick?

Chromoly 9" sheetmetal Ford housing, with 40 spline gun drilled axles, alum Mark Williams center, with a 3.70 Pro gear and a billet 1350 yoke with a solid joint............expensive? yeah I guess, but high power, hard hooking radial cars will break EVERYTHING. Radial cars are harder on drive line parts by FAR than slick tire cars. That said, we have NEVER broken a single part in the rear...........Several radial guys I know this year were twisting and breaking 40 spline axles. That's how hard these cars can be on parts.

Monte

If thats the case, then move up to a Dana 70, 10.5" ring gear, 35 spline axles, 3.5 tubes with .5 wall thickness, looks like a 60 but on steroids inside! 1401 ujoints and a bunch of ratio's up to 7.17 to 1 Tim

Oh I love getting on here. Twisting 40 spline axles and should go back to 35 spline and add 150 lbs in the process. That is exactly what they should do. I think you should call all the big chassis shops and get them all on board with the dana 70 movement also. You better buy up all the parts they are going to be flying off the shelf.

Oh No you dare dis the mighty ford dana

This going to get GOOD!

Don

Attached picture 8350011-housing8-14-12.jpg

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/03/14 06:21 PM

Quote:

Here we go again!!!!!!! LOL
So the real question is this.
How much $$$ does it take to modify an 9 to fit into an A Body?
Taking into account you have 650 ft/lbs of torque.
Running drag radials and it weights 3200 with driver?
Street car and occasional drag.
Was on Mark Williams web page and a complete 9 rear was 3700 to 6000
What upgrades do you guys recommend for the above combo?
Matt

Properly braced stock type housing will be fine. Use a Nodular center and a good pinion support and you are set. Axles, brakes, spool, gears and all that stuff is a wash for ANY rear you choose. Really the only added extra cost for the Ford is the Nodular center housing and good support. A Nodular steel center can be had for less than $400 and a good support is $180. Also Strange sells complete race ready drop in centers in Nodular iron, with spools, pro-gears and yokes for $1350. The alum version is $1500. Lots of options. Those complete center prices are with PRO gears, so you could get cheaper with a street gear

Monte

Posted By: ccarson

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/03/14 07:01 PM

Exactly

The 9" Style rear end has so much more to offer in the form of specialty parts and pieces than anything else currently available.
one thing that I dont think anyone mentioned is the 9" has a roller bearing supporting the end of the pinion.

As far as the 8.8 ford, there are many mustang racers running them into the 8s I think that its a case of having upgraded the HP in an existing chassis, BTW Ford itself specs Strange fabricated 9" style rear ends in there Cobra Jet program cars.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/03/14 07:38 PM

Look whats under a DragPac car..9"

Posted By: astjp2

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/03/14 07:42 PM

Quote:

a dana 30 was great for what it was designed for. a hemi car or a 440 six pack car is not a hd truck. ok I got you the nine inch was only good for a stock car but the dana 60 was good for cars ands hd trucks up to 4 tons. it look like the dana is better to me lol

UHM, no....the dana 30 was used in the front of AMC Jeep CJ's, Chrysler YJ's and TJ's and IHC Scouts, never in the rear. The Dana 35 was Used in the Rear of the Chrysler products, used C clips and was a piece of garbage that people swap out a Dana 44 for. The 44 was used in every half and some 3/4ton trucks ever sold in the US up until the mid-90's as an optional/available axle. The 60 was put in a few Mopar cars, Some 1/2 ton, most 3/4 ton and a few 1 ton truck from all of the manufacturers up until the mid 90's again. Dana 70's cam in 3/4 ton and up to 1.5 ton trucks....the 80 is even bigger...so while you may have the right idea, be sure of what you know.

I have been around 4x4 vehicles long enough to spot a dana pretty quick. Now an AAM that was put in a GM or Dodge...not so much. More options available for the Dana's to upgrade in the truck world. Most 60 truck internals interchange with the car 60, the only real differences were semi floating axle shafts (some jeep and ford 1/2 tons were semi float) and a mount for a pinion snubber. If you don't need the pinion snubber, then the truck housing will work and not cost a lot.

If someone wants to upgrade to Cromemoly tubes and weld them in, just press out the old and in with the new, then weld. I am personally more worried about the casting flexing than the tubes, but that is from my experience with them in the 4x4 world. a 3.5 inch .500 wall tube takes about 2k horsepower to start bending a tube, the gears would probably spit out long before then without upgrades. I also would build a dana with the Ford Torino ends, there are lost more options for production disc brakes and they were better bearings than came in any 83/4. A Ford 9 is a good axle but most only build them too run right at the edge of almost wanting to break because that is lighter. I run a dana because I never want it to break and don't care about the extra 15-30 lbs. Tim

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/03/14 08:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:

a dana 30 was great for what it was designed for. a hemi car or a 440 six pack car is not a hd truck. ok I got you the nine inch was only good for a stock car but the dana 60 was good for cars ands hd trucks up to 4 tons. it look like the dana is better to me lol

UHM, no....the dana 30 was used in the front of AMC Jeep CJ's, Chrysler YJ's and TJ's and IHC Scouts, never in the rear. The Dana 35 was Used in the Rear of the Chrysler products, used C clips and was a piece of garbage that people swap out a Dana 44 for. The 44 was used in every half and some 3/4ton trucks ever sold in the US up until the mid-90's as an optional/available axle. The 60 was put in a few Mopar cars, Some 1/2 ton, most 3/4 ton and a few 1 ton truck from all of the manufacturers up until the mid 90's again. Dana 70's cam in 3/4 ton and up to 1.5 ton trucks....the 80 is even bigger...so while you may have the right idea, be sure of what you know.

I have been around 4x4 vehicles long enough to spot a dana pretty quick. Now an AAM that was put in a GM or Dodge...not so much. More options available for the Dana's to upgrade in the truck world. Most 60 truck internals interchange with the car 60, the only real differences were semi floating axle shafts (some jeep and ford 1/2 tons were semi float) and a mount for a pinion snubber. If you don't need the pinion snubber, then the truck housing will work and not cost a lot.

If someone wants to upgrade to Cromemoly tubes and weld them in, just press out the old and in with the new, then weld. I am personally more worried about the casting flexing than the tubes, but that is from my experience with them in the 4x4 world. a 3.5 inch .500 wall tube takes about 2k horsepower to start bending a tube, the gears would probably spit out long before then without upgrades. I also would build a dana with the Ford Torino ends, there are lost more options for production disc brakes and they were better bearings than came in any 83/4. A Ford 9 is a good axle but most only build them too run right at the edge of almost wanting to break because that is lighter. I run a dana because I never want it to break and don't care about the extra 15-30 lbs. Tim

We are talking about DRAG RACING, not off road 4x4s. And if you think it takes 2000hp to bend an unsupported 3.5" chromoly axle tube in a drag car, you are sorely mistaken. Has NOTHING to do with power anyway, has to do with TORQUE. In a drag car, while the strength of the center is obviously important to prevent flex and crashing gears, the NUMBER ONE MOST IMPORTANT thing is supporting the tube. I don't care how big a tube you press in that DANA center. You don't support it, you bend it. Period, end of story. And THAT is the reason banjo rears are the obvious choice for a serious race car. Because you can build a BETTER housing. And the lower pinion aside, that some people claim robs power, the 9" Ford is the obvious best choice for this type rear, BECAUSE the pinion is supported on both ends. This being the case, with good parts utilized, makes the center section virtually indestructible. Couple that with a well built housing and you have a rear that is under the baddest door cars on the planet

Monte

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/03/14 08:05 PM

Two different worlds, drag racing and 4x4 trucks. Dead hooking a 1500hp car is a lot harder on parts then a 4x4 spining off road where traction is a minumin. If you think a dana 70 is only 15-30 more pounds then a chromoly housing, aluminum center section 9 inch your crazy.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/03/14 08:18 PM

Damn, look what I started...............

Posted By: justinp61

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/03/14 08:29 PM

Quote:

Damn, look what I started...............

Instigator..........

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/03/14 08:31 PM

Was just curious but now I got a history lesson and that`s cool by me.

Posted By: n20mstr

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/04/14 01:36 AM

Threads like this make MOPARTS the "site" that is has the rep for ......lol

What a waste of time and keystrokes LMAO !

Posted By: CraigS

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/04/14 04:59 AM

When I put my Moser Dana 60 in my car,It added 60 lbs to the car over the 8 3/4.Thats the weight penalty.I broke the 8 3/4 6 times before I put in the dana.2400 dollars well spent ,not 3700-6000.

Posted By: CraigS

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/04/14 05:02 AM

Thumper,what happened to your rearend in the car?

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/04/14 05:04 AM

Quote:

Thumper,what happened to your rearend in the car?

Nothing... he is still running it... but Dom plans
on stepping up the power

Posted By: Mopar-Al

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/04/14 05:07 AM

I plan on pulling the dana out of my dart next year and doing a well built 9. Chris up in Battle Ground is going to do the work.

Posted By: Polarapete

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/04/14 06:19 AM

Quote:

I plan on pulling the dana out of my dart next year and doing a well built 9. Chris up in Battle Ground is going to do the work.

I now have learned more than I ever wanted to know about the Ford 8.8 rear end and have not changed my opinion one bit about my choice of rear axles for my 3,800#+ truck. It is getting the Dana 60 that I built from a thick wall truck axle with a spool, stock 4.10 gears, Ford "Torino" wheel bearings and Ford racing drum brakes. The truck will never run over 120mph in the quarter and I don't need to spend huge money on a rear end. This a dedicated race vehicle, but my goals are modest as is my budget. I want to have fun and not be a slave to the race car.

Posted By: astjp2

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/04/14 11:30 AM

Quote:

Two different worlds, drag racing and 4x4 trucks. Dead hooking a 1500hp car is a lot harder on parts then a 4x4 spining off road where traction is a minumin. If you think a dana 70 is only 15-30 more pounds then a chromoly housing, aluminum center section 9 inch your crazy.

Tell that to the jeep guys that have serious traction in the rocks, they slide a little back, wheel is under load and then catches...Many v8 powered jeeps have either broke something like a shaft or a housing or launched the vehicle over backwards. It aint muddin I am talkin about here...

oh and the 70 with 40 spline axles are good up to 8000 ftlbs of momentary torque, the 60 is good for 6000 lbft of momentary torque with 35 spline. I don't see any 9 with factory parts rated to even close to those numbers the 8.8 with 31 splines is about 5100, the 9 is 5500 per one chart on the web. So you can decide what you want....just barely makin it or never going to break. I went with a 70, it was like 6 lbs heavier than an HD 60, I don't think I will ever break it under normal circumstances. Tim

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/04/14 04:53 PM

Quote:

Thumper,what happened to your rearend in the car?

It`s fine just planning ahead and if it stops raining I can get my last passes in till I step up.

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/04/14 07:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Two different worlds, drag racing and 4x4 trucks. Dead hooking a 1500hp car is a lot harder on parts then a 4x4 spining off road where traction is a minumin. If you think a dana 70 is only 15-30 more pounds then a chromoly housing, aluminum center section 9 inch your crazy.

Tell that to the jeep guys that have serious traction in the rocks, they slide a little back, wheel is under load and then catches...Many v8 powered jeeps have either broke something like a shaft or a housing or launched the vehicle over backwards. It aint muddin I am talkin about here... oh and the 70 with 40 spline axles are good up to 8000 ftlbs of momentary torque, the 60 is good for 6000 lbft of momentary torque with 35 spline. I don't see any 9 with factory parts rated to even close to those numbers the 8.8 with 31 splines is about 5100, the 9 is 5500 per one chart on the web. So you can decide what you want....just barely makin it or never going to break. I went with a 70, it was like 6 lbs heavier than an HD 60, I don't think I will ever break it under normal circumstances. Tim

Last time I checked a prepped smooth racing surface has way more grip then any rocks I found off road. Haven't seen any 1500 hp rock crawlers either. If you want a Dana 70 and all that weight in the car that's fine, as for me I want to go fast.

You do know Montes 9 inch is behind 700+ cubic inch nitrous breathing monster and lives fine, but I guess that's not the same as some rock buggy with a ls 6.0 liter in it. Do me a favor and put your car, when your done building it, on a scale and tell me what it weights. Also why do we need to put factory parts in these rears the aftermarket is full of awesome super strong parts for a 9 inch. I am building a race car not a confined to factory parts.

Posted By: HEMI472

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/04/14 07:59 PM

not everyone has 1500 to 3000 hp looks like he makes some where around 650 to 700 so what ever he chooses it will work. Not a ford guy but I have seen mustangs run in the high eights with I guess a 8.8 with 4 lug wheels but I also seen cars with 8 3/4 go that fast too. but if he did put a dana in it . I think it could be done for under 1000.00 dollors not 1500.00 just for the center section for the nine inch. and not every one has a million dollors. people saying 15 to 50 pounds difference ?? I don't know what it would be I guess it depends on the length of it . and how much do you think that is going to slow a car up?? a couple hundreds?? I guess that's a lot if you have a super stock car. but most people are bracket racers just change your dail or put a big block in in or more spray to cover the 50 pounds

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/04/14 09:11 PM

There is so much

in this thread I don't know if I should even bother.

A friends 85 Mustang that he raced in a Street STOCK class running only 12.3's when it broke it's first 8.8, with traction lock, when it twisted the end off a stock axle, the rebuild upped it to a spool, c clip eliminators and 31 spline axles with more gear , this was behind a 5 speed running slicks and launching at 4000 rpm.

Fast forward to 2013 , different mustang , now a V6 5 speed, running low 13's , Ford Motorsport 8.8 with 3.73's, the trac lock lasted one short season , now it's got a tru trac in it, still with slicks and still launching at 4000 rpm , axles should be next ??? He has his original rear as backup , it's his daily driver ...

Dom , you can do all the bracing , axle bearing change , heavy duty caps you want to the 8 3/4 , pick whatever size pinion you want because in the end they are ALL THE SAME SIZE where the outer pinion bearing slides on ... you still won't fix the weak link ... RING AND PINION teeth breaking off .

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/04/14 10:02 PM

Quote:

not everyone has 1500 to 3000 hp looks like he makes some where around 650 to 700 so what ever he chooses it will work. Not a ford guy but I have seen mustangs run in the high eights with I guess a 8.8 with 4 lug wheels but I also seen cars with 8 3/4 go that fast too. but if he did put a dana in it . I think it could be done for under 1000.00 dollors not 1500.00 just for the center section for the nine inch. and not every one has a million dollors. people saying 15 to 50 pounds difference ?? I don't know what it would be I guess it depends on the length of it . and how much do you think that is going to slow a car up?? a couple hundreds?? I guess that's a lot if you have a super stock car. but most people are bracket racers just change your dail or put a big block in in or more spray to cover the 50 pounds

I guess I should just stick with my 8 3/4 then huh? It's only a small block and it only manages to go 162 in the quarter. Maybe a Dana 30 what you think?

Posted By: HEMI472

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/04/14 10:13 PM

what do I think ??? a dana 30 might work since you have a very light race car and a small block with no torque lol

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/04/14 11:45 PM

Quote:

what do I think ??? a dana 30 might work since you have a very light race car and a small block with no torque lol

Didn't think 3200 lbs was light. But to your guys Dana 70s tanks I guess it is.

Posted By: astjp2

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/05/14 12:15 AM

maybe a dana 27? those were made in the early 40's

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/05/14 01:05 AM

Purple shafts, 906s, pinion snubbers and Dana 60s for every body. It's what all the fast guys use!!

Posted By: KOS

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/05/14 02:56 AM

Quote:

There is so much in this thread I don't know if I should even bother.

A friends 85 Mustang that he raced in a Street STOCK class running only 12.3's when it broke it's first 8.8, with traction lock, when it twisted the end off a stock axle, the rebuild upped it to a spool, c clip eliminators and 31 spline axles with more gear , this was behind a 5 speed running slicks and launching at 4000 rpm.

Fast forward to 2013 , different mustang , now a V6 5 speed, running low 13's , Ford Motorsport 8.8 with 3.73's, the trac lock lasted one short season , now it's got a tru trac in it, still with slicks and still launching at 4000 rpm , axles should be next ??? He has his original rear as backup , it's his daily driver ...

Dom , you can do all the bracing , axle bearing change , heavy duty caps you want to the 8 3/4 , pick whatever size pinion you want because in the end they are ALL THE SAME SIZE where the outer pinion bearing slides on ... you still won't fix the weak link ... RING AND PINION teeth breaking off .

ive broken many 8 3/4s and many 8.8s also in my years of racing im on my 4th dana 60 and have never broke anything its kinda like you forget its even there its not a concern.my buddys 67 Superstock camaro had a stock 70runner dana 60 under for over 25yrs of racing with a t-brake also it wasnt until he put a 500"victor headed BB in it running low 9s then he finally broke the stock posi in it and twisted the axles.dont see to many bone stock rears doin that

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/05/14 03:57 AM

I'm just here to post pictures of 9" rears.

This is a truck rear end.

It's a 2 speed BTW. Supposed to help Tony's SB go faster someone said.

I don't see how?

Posted By: Sport440

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/05/14 05:00 AM

Quote:

I'm just here to post pictures of 9" rears.

This is a truck rear end. It's a 2 speed BTW. Supposed to help Tony's SB go faster someone said.
I don't see how?
[image]http://i21.

That was Me

Tony was joking/sarcastic about going to the Junk yard and getting a Dump truck axel.

I joined in and stated to get the 2 Speed

If you couldn't catch that Chally, your not as smart as I thought you were.

My Poke was Both at Tonys SB and at the priors posts suggestion of using a HD 70 rear for a race car. My poke at you, I shouldn't consider you Challenged from now on should I?

Its just a poke, I know better, Quit speed reading.

EDIT; First post on page two.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/05/14 03:54 PM

Sure I knew it was joke, the 2 speed rear.

I should have put some jokers in my post. I think it was my last post before bed last night and my mind might have been slightly clouded.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/05/14 09:32 PM

Quote:

Sure I knew it was joke, the 2 speed rear.

I should have put some jokers in my post. I think it was my last post before bed last night and my mind might have been slightly clouded.

I put a Eaton two speed under drive rear end in my old Class A motorhome, 1.5 ton I.H. chassis years ago, it really helped it a bunch

6.30 or so in under drive and 4.57 in direct, it had a 4.89 ratio in the stock rear end originally. I would leave it in under drive in town and shift it manually out on the road with a electric switch. It worked great for hills and backing the boat trailer into the water slowly

Boy, some of the stuff we hot rodder do to get better performance from our vechiles

Now back to are original discussion on them no good Ford rear ends of all sizes

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/05/14 11:41 PM

I had a BIG old 2 speed diff in my old Dodge dump truck
and it needed it... I put a 360 in the truck(had a
/6).. what a gutless wonder

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/06/14 02:39 AM

Quote:

I had a BIG old 2 speed diff in my old Dodge dump truck
and it needed it... I put a 360 in the truck(had a
/6).. what a gutless wonder

Yup this is our only truck left with a 2 speed rear, it's a 1990 truck antique/backup truck now. This is at least the second and probably the 3rd time I had it out getting rebuilt. This truck has a DT 466 diesel and a 5 speed trans. Learned to drive big trucks in this configuration back in 1978 at my third job. Then you had chueffer SP? license. I was grand fathered into a CDL, only took the paper test and still do every 4 years to maintain my hazmat endorsement.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: FORD 8.8 REAR................ - 12/06/14 04:32 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I had a BIG old 2 speed diff in my old Dodge dump truck
and it needed it... I put a 360 in the truck(had a
/6).. what a gutless wonder

Yup this is our only truck left with a 2 speed rear, it's a 1990 truck antique/backup truck now. This is at least the second and probably the 3rd time I had it out getting rebuilt. This truck has a DT 466 diesel and a 5 speed trans. Learned to drive big trucks in this configuration back in 1978 at my third job. Then you had chueffer SP? license. I was grand fathered into a CDL, only took the paper test and still do every 4 years to maintain my hazmat endorsement.

I was driving a wrecker back in 69 .. that was my
first with the 2 speed diff.. it was a diesel and
a 5 speed.. I had to have the chauffeur license also

FORD 8.8 REAR................

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