Trick Flow introduces BBM heads

Posted By: BradH

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 12:11 AM

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 12:16 AM

I can make enough power to split a stock block with what is available now. Lets see some nice blocks now please!
Keith

Posted By: mshred

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 12:17 AM

Quote:

Unlike every single mopar head out there, these heads are a TRUE bolt on!
And they actually flow as advertised...and they have upgraded hardware.

This is the first of 3 heads they will offer...

Take note what they flow, the quality castings, machine work and parts, then compare them with Eddy or whoever's heads. You'll quickly see they are priced damn good!

Are all 3 heads going to be BB?

Nice to see a quality company like Trick Flow get in to the Mopar game...Stock style heads or not, having options is ALWAYS a good thing in my opinion

Posted By: KOS

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 12:58 AM

and a low profile single plane low deck intake would be nice........

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 12:59 AM

Yes they will have 3 BB heads in the near future!

Posted By: WO23Coronet

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 01:02 AM

I know you probably can't say to much but can you say if this is the entry level head out of the three or where does it fall?

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 02:17 AM

This is the little one...

Posted By: fishy340

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 03:59 AM

They're cute

Posted By: Bigbeep

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 04:43 AM

I race at Norwalk most of the time when I get the car out and a couple of years ago (May have been 2013)a guy from Trick Flow stopped by the trailer and asked if he ask me some questions about my car and the aftermarket parts available for mopars in general. The subject quickly turned to cylinder heads and what I thought Mopar guys wanted. The funny thing is, One of the first things I said was something that worked good that was affordable. That didn't cost more than the car itself! I was running the 440-1s on the car and told him I really liked them for my combo but the customer service was lacking from indy at times. I wasn't impressed with the kit parts from Indy for the valve train. That lead to rocker talk and what I thought would be a good option. If they could design something that used stock geometry rockers or something available thru the aftermarket that would be cool.
Long story short, I never thought anything became of his questions he asked me or the others there that day. I just figured they decided there wasn't enough money to make with the old mopars. This is a very nice surprise. Thanks Trick Flow!

Attached picture 8321779-09-09-201412;15;22AM.JPG

Attached picture 8321779-09-09-201412;15;22AM.JPG

Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 05:52 AM

Quote:

This is the little one...

Don't need anymore little ones..

Need new ideas, and competitive stuff..

That's just another company trying to reinvent the mouse trap as the saying goes..

Really nothing to see here..

Now, if the other heads that are being thought about have something new and better to offer, I'm all ears..

Chris..

Posted By: Exit1965

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 05:57 AM

Short video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzZK7Je1HgM

Posted By: 67Satty

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 06:28 AM

So are these going to cost about the same as Edelbrock RPMs

about the same as standard-port Indy EZs

about the same as CNC-Stealths?

Is it supposed to be a secret right now

Posted By: 68 HEMI GTS

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 07:34 AM

hopefully those notches on the intake face are just to show deck thickness for the display, otherwise you'll be forced to run the old bathtub under the intake..

Posted By: Roughbird72

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 08:03 AM

Quote:

I can make enough power to split a stock block with what is available now. Lets see some nice blocks now please!
Keith

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 02:26 PM

Great looking head but so what--$2K range??? I think that slot has been covered by EZ etc
I think the race is the other way--To the BOTTOM! As most of our builds are STREET units now compared to race I think the Sidewinder kind of head for around $800 range is what I am looking for!!!! I build many Chevy and Fords--I use fantastic aluminum heads that cost the shop around $600 range so when a Mopar head comes along like that I will buy a pallet of them--It will happen sooner or later--I can take a head like that build an EASY Breezy 525 HP and that is all a street car will ever need --a REAL 500 plus HP on the street is a killer fun unit---Customers that call asking for 700 HP pump gas street engines --when interviewed--have usually never even had an engine before and have no idea--when they get the cost diff they usually go for a decent reasonable priced 500 HP unit --when they get it in with correct converter etc they are always Thrilled!!
Give me a cheapo alum head --that will make me happier than a 400 CFM wedge head ANY day!!!
one or two hundred folks here want a 1000 HP pump gas engine--the rest of the world can get by with
what is really one heck of an engine--just not one you would read about.

Posted By: mopardamo

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 03:56 PM

Hey Brian,

Can you tell us if either one of the next two versions will need piston changes?

Thanks
Damon

Posted By: EchoSixMike

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 04:05 PM

What's the valve length? Stock 4.9"? Those valve sizes make me hope they used Cleveland valves, 5.2 ish" and raised the ports some.

Crab, this is an EZ, without the hassle of dealing with Indy and that clownshoe nonsense. S/F....Ken M

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 04:59 PM

Quote:

Hey Brian,

Can you tell us if either one of the next two versions will need piston changes?

Thanks
Damon

What's the BIG deal about changing pistons?????????? Heck its done everyday. Some guys want to go fast.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 05:47 PM

Quote:

Unlike every single mopar head out there, these heads are a TRUE bolt on!
And they actually flow as advertised...and they have upgraded hardware.

This is the first of 3 heads they will offer...

Take note what they flow, the quality castings, machine work and parts, then compare them with Eddy or whoever's heads. You'll quickly see they are priced damn good!

For you to say that, I would assume you have a set, and have personally flowed them ??? Please share the details and some photos...Thanks !

Posted By: GTS340

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 05:54 PM

Quote:

Crab, this is an EZ, without the hassle of dealing with Indy and that clownshoe nonsense. S/F....Ken M

Are you considering them an EZ based on the similar flow numbers? Having 240cc intake runners after being CNC machined they are still 30cc smaller than the as cast EZ. I wonder how the CSA compares to the EZ.
Anyone know where runner volume ends up on the RPM/Stealth that have been CNC'd by Modern?

Posted By: BradH

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 06:57 PM

My $.02 -- or maybe more like my $.10 -- on this subject:

1. Based on what I see in how Trick Flow prices their other heads w/ comparable features, I'm expecting them to be $2000-2200 a pair assembled. Not sure if I see a solid roller-type spring option listed, though.

2. I believe I could take those heads, put 'em on my 452 RB shortblock, stick in the 265 @ .050" x .650" solid roller I got from Dwayne Porter, drop on my plenum-ported Edelbrock Victor intake & one of my carbs and make 640+ HP on pump gas, easily enough to put my street/strip E-body into the low 10s. It ran 10.5s w/ 610 HP on Dwayne's dyno, so it looks reasonable to me that those heads and a nice roller would pick it up at least a couple of tenths.

3. They're sized (runner volume) much better for a 450-ish cube application than someting like a standard Indy EZ, because the EZ runners are just tapered-down MW-sized runners. The velocity on the Trick Flow head is probably way better across the lift range than a modified standard-port size EZ, even if the flow #s aren't as good. An EZ is really just a Max Wedge port waiting for a grinder to open up the entry, which puts the CSA and runner volume up to IMO what's much better suited to a 500" application.

4. They've got a better chamber than any that Edelbrock offers for the Performer RPM (or what Stealth & Sidewinder copied), the OOB CNC porting and decent flow #s are reasonable for that size of head, and they won't require any special valve train. If I wasn't already vested in Edelbrock Victors (own one ported set & the requisite offset intake rockers & roller lifters, and have another unported set on hand for a future project), I'd be giving these Trick Flows a serious look... or waiting to see what the "intermediate" set that Brian hinted about looks like.

5. Yeah, they need to fill in that gap on the intake manifold side to let people punt the OEM-type valley pan.

Posted By: GTS340

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 07:11 PM

Quote:

My $.02 -- or maybe more like my $.10 -- on this subject:

2. I believe I could take those heads, put 'em on my 452 RB shortblock, stick in the 265 @ .050" x .650" solid roller I got from Dwayne Porter, drop on my plenum-ported Edelbrock Victor intake & one of my carbs and make 640+ HP on pump gas, easily enough to put my street/strip E-body into the low 10s. It ran 10.5s w/ 610 HP on Dwayne's dyno, so it looks reasonable to me that those heads and a nice roller would pick it up at least a couple of tenths.

3. They're sized (runner volume) much better for a 450-ish cube application than someting like a standard Indy EZ, because the EZ runners are just tapered-down MW-sized runners. The velocity on the Trick Flow head is probably way better across the lift range than a modified standard-port size EZ, even if the flow #s aren't as good. An EZ is really just a Max Wedge port waiting for a grinder to open up the entry, which puts the CSA and runner volume up to IMO what's much better suited to a 500" application.

4. They've got a better chamber than any that Edelbrock offers for the Performer RPM (or what Stealth & Sidewinder copied), the OOB CNC porting and decent flow #s are reasonable for that size of head, and they won't require any special valve train. If I wasn't already vested in Edelbrock Victors (own one ported set & w/ the requisite offset intake rockers & roller lifters, and have another unported set on hand for a future project), I'd be giving these Trick Flows a serious look... or waiting to see what the "intermediate" set that Brian hinted about looks like.

I agree, fills the void between the small 210cc RPM and the necked down max wedge 270cc EZ. Be great for 440-470 CID engines. Anyone remember what the intake runner size options were on the Chapman heads?

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 07:40 PM

Nice head with a nice design that puts Trick Flow right in the middle of the market of the most common BBM heads. Great for Trick Flow, but does NOTHING for those of us who want something NEW to make big power with.

Monte

Posted By: BBR

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 08:01 PM

That they are producing ANYTHING for an engine that was last installed in a vehicle in 1978, is freaking cool.

Enjoy it.

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 08:09 PM

I think I am gonna enjoy it (got a customer looking at them already this morning!) I am just perplexed at a company ignoring one big market to get into an already crowded one

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 08:27 PM

Quote:

Nice head with a nice design that puts Trick Flow right in the middle of the market of the most common BBM heads. Great for Trick Flow, but does NOTHING for those of us who want something NEW to make big power with.

Monte

I look at it this way. You gotta start somewhere and build from there. I sat and talked to these guys for several hours over the past 3 years at Norwalk and they offer some very nice looking products. I for one am happy to see them jump into the Mopar market and look for great things in the future.

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 09:12 PM

Quote:

So are these going to cost about the same as Edelbrock RPMs about the same as standard-port Indy EZs about the same as CNC-Stealths? Is it supposed to be a secret right now

Prices are not Concrete yet so that's why nobody is saying but the should be less than 2K. Not bad for an aluminum performance BB head that can be bolted on and ran.

Posted By: 67Satty

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 09:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So are these going to cost about the same as Edelbrock RPMs about the same as standard-port Indy EZs about the same as CNC-Stealths? Is it supposed to be a secret right now

Prices are not Concrete yet so that's why nobody is saying but the should be less than 2K. Not bad for an aluminum performance BB head that can be bolted on and ran.

Thanks for the info so far!

Posted By: 1baddart

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 09:43 PM

Good lord do I hope they come out with a good alternative for us bigger cube guys. Something to give indys or even b1s a run for their money!

Posted By: BradH

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 09:57 PM

Quote:

Do You Have, or have you had a set of these Heads ???

Any chance you're related to the late Senator Joseph McCarthy?

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 10:12 PM

Quote:

Good lord do I hope they come out with a good alternative for us bigger cube guys. Something to give indys or even b1s a run for their money!

Exactly......where is the NEW head that has at least as much or MORE potential than the B-1 PSO, is more user friendly and you can actually GET......I will take 2 sets right now.......LOL!!!

Monte

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 10:14 PM

They make a head for the big cube guys--its called a Hemi

Isn't Trick Flow Summits house brand anyway?
So isn't this a Summit head?

Source has proven that the race to the bottom --NOT the top is the one with the big numbers on sales--at least back when they were $895 a pair

The guys that get back there with an aluminum head that will fit existing pistons/combos etc like the old Eddy/Sidewinder etc will be KING
Hey that is a good name for a $795 a pair head

Until then Sidewinders are Excellent quality and get my business--Marsh has been EXCELLENT in providing those heads fast as UPS can bring them and our shop is putting them in about every build we do --

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 10:22 PM

What does it matter that Summit owns Trick Flow???...........it is still two separate companies. We/Holley own several companies, Quick Fuel included, but a Quick Fuel carb is still a Quick Fuel carb. Same with Hooker, Earls, NOS, Weiand, etc.

Monte

Posted By: BBR

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 10:40 PM

From their FB page.

Quote:

Trick Flow Specialties: $1800-$1900 range assembled for the pair.

Posted By: tex013

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 11:00 PM

Brian,
have you any idea how these heads compare to the CNC Stealths ?
I think it is great there is a company stepping into the ring for Mopar , will maybe bring the others up a step with competition .
As said before the BB market is primarily 450-510ci making to 650ish HP .You do put your toe in the water at the shallow end first - then go deeper . Not jump in the deep end hoping for the best .

Tex

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/05/14 11:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Do You Have, or have you had a set of these Heads ???

Any chance you're related to the late Senator Joseph McCarthy?

If the guy is saying:

"Unlike every single mopar head out there, these heads are a TRUE bolt on!
And they actually flow as advertised...and they have upgraded hardware."

Isn't it reasonable to ask if he actually has/had one of these heads, or is he just going by the promo materials ?

If someone is emphatically stating that they are a "TRUE bolt on deal", it would be nice to know if THEY have actually bolted them on anything !!
I was ready to buy Source heads, then I heard about the Sidewinders, and now these sound good.....just looking for first hand info.

Posted By: 1964superstock

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/06/14 05:23 AM

More good close up photos here: http://www.hotrod.com/features/1411-tric...2014-sema-show/

Looks like winner to me, but nearly even with Modern CNC Edelbrock RPM head flow. I sure like that nice 21st century 78 cc combustion chamber. If they are priced right and truly ready to bolt on, they will be very tough to beat.

Attached picture 8322881-440-rb-big-block-mopar-head-closeup1.jpg

Attached picture 8322881-440-rb-big-block-mopar-head-closeup1.jpg

Posted By: Twostick

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/06/14 05:38 AM

If those chambers can get the burn rate down to where total timing is in the hi 20's you can say goodbye to cap walk and other assorted destructive forces.

That alone would be worth the price of admission.

Kevin

Posted By: sasquatch

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/06/14 06:18 AM

Interesting 1.78 Exhaust valve....
The one article said starting at 1800 bucks ok not bad on that front. The intake looks pretty nice although I do wish they could offer it in a 1 piece deal with the valley cover. Ok now to

They look alright to me. Not world beaters but I am pretty sure we (and a lot of other people) could blow the bottom end out of a stock block with them. What is not to like? Some of you guys need to go back to the days when McCandless ported 452s were as GOOD AS IT GOT and they cost almost as much as these 20 years ago. And if it cracked oh well. Now it seems like heads are coming out of the woodwork. GOOD. We can no longer be held hostage. Competition between the manufacturers will be good for everyone looking to buy heads of all kinds. What we need is BLOCKS. We can make any aluminum head on the market run over the crank.
We just shipped a 655 Indy wedge that made almost 1100 on pump gas. HOW much do you want? We (and others have many ways to build about anything you want) Write the check and you can have one to. All this talk about what is and is not a race head is nuts. How fast do you have to go to be called a race head? How much power does it have to make? Why not just bolt two big hair dryers on it or Call up Charlie Buck and spray the bearings out? All it takes is $$$$$.
Then we have our Mopar guys. Most of them are not wiping their bums with Ben Franklins. As someone who has sold more dang mopar heads than you could fit in a semi truck, I can tell you that $$$$ is ALWAYS the limiting factor for any engine build. Bang for the buck always matters.
I am happy to see another company throw their hat in the ring. I hope they do offer other parts. Hey some 500 cfm heads would be sweet if they cost under 10grand...so guys enjoy the show. I NEVER would have guessed 10 years ago even that we would have all these choices. ALL of these heads are filling in gaps and have markets. It may not be what you are looking for but the guys that buy them are funding the R/D that will pave the way for bigger and badder stuff to come.
Todd

Posted By: BradH

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/06/14 06:25 AM

Quote:

If those chambers can get the burn rate down to where total timing is in the hi 20's you can say goodbye to cap walk and other assorted destructive forces.

That alone would be worth the price of admission.

Kevin

Those chambers aren't that much different from other heart-shaped chambers that still end up with 34 - 36 degrees advance for best power. No magic there from what I see.

Posted By: 451Cuda

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/06/14 08:49 AM

Quote:

Good lord do I hope they come out with a good alternative for us bigger cube guys. Something to give indys or even b1s a run for their money!

I had been setting aside money for B1 MC's...may hold off and see what the race version looks like.

Posted By: RAMM

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/06/14 02:04 PM

Quote:

Quote:

If those chambers can get the burn rate down to where total timing is in the hi 20's you can say goodbye to cap walk and other assorted destructive forces.

That alone would be worth the price of admission.

Kevin

Those chambers aren't that much different from other heart-shaped chambers that still end up with 34 - 36 degrees advance for best power. No magic there from what I see.

I just looked at a closer shot of the chamber. The plug position looks drastically improved but the real plus here is the pressure recovery looks to be excellent with these. I would be willing to bet this is one of the primary reasons the flow rate at .400" and .500" is quite good. I have a customer that I will be nudging towards these. IF (and that's a BIG IF) they flow as advertised EVERYWHERE in the lift curve, these will be the best non rocker offset, replacement heads available to us-especially at the proposed price point.

Burn rate cannot be judged by looking at the chamber alone. You will need a wet flow bench and plenty of experience interpreting that data, and a host of other variables affect burn rate. If less timing is required then less negative torque will be produced below peak torque--which will show up as more torque. This has nothing to do with cap walk-unless you exceed the timing required and get into pre-ignition and detonation. J.Rob

Posted By: RAMM

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/06/14 02:07 PM

Also the 1.78" exhaust size is a smart move IMO. No need for a big heavy 1.81" valve. J.Rob

Posted By: EchoSixMike

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/06/14 03:19 PM

Quote:

Are you considering them an EZ based on the similar flow numbers? Having 240cc intake runners after being CNC machined they are still 30cc smaller than the as cast EZ. I wonder how the CSA compares to the EZ.

Someone else mentioned this but I'll add my 2 cents.

The EZ is designed for use as a MW size port. Which is fine, but if you're running a small engine not ideal. A better designed port makes more sense IMO than just port volume. Kinda like the Chapman Stage 6's, except without the incredible price. Yes, I know why they cost that much, but that has little to do with them being outside the budget of most everyone.

The smart head producers these days cast the heads with a ton of meat and then let the CNC tooling cut all the chambers/ports/etc. This gives far better results than trying to cast as-finished heads. For this reason alone, this is a better head than the other stuff on the market, where it's port volume makes sense.

I'm hoping they do a max wedge port, something like a -1 killer, that should go 400'ish at .700. And then a full boat head, going as tall as they can, the problem there is blocks. 4.900 bore space? Cool, but why not just run a BBF w/ a Thor head, since that's what you just built anyways?

The issue is, what's the market? A B-1 killer? What's the most you can get out of a 4.8 B/S design? What would be the purpose? For any outlaw/10.5/275/whatever stuff, why not just run a hemi with a turbo or screw? The fuel/alky guys have already done the work there. Rules? OK, if you're racing a rule book, you need to build to the rulebook. S/F.....Ken M

Posted By: Twostick

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/06/14 04:31 PM

Quote:

This has nothing to do with cap walk-unless you exceed the timing required and get into pre-ignition and detonation. J.Rob

I have a buddy in the R+D biz that has the technology to data log cylinder pressure in real time and his research shows that detonation is happening long before you can hear it or see it in power data on a dyno when using commonly accepted total advance #'s. The pressure spikes started as you approached 30 deg and got progressively higher as the timing curve advanced to total.

I draw a similar conclusion based on the fact that there are guys on here that run boosted stock block combos at almost double the power levels that seem to beat the mains out of a stock block NA combo and the only thing I see different other than the boost is the timing curve. Mid 20's max. Little to no cap walk.

It is no accident that modern chambers like the Gen III Hemi or the LS are all done timing wise in the low 20's or less.

Kevin

Posted By: RAMM

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/06/14 04:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

This has nothing to do with cap walk-unless you exceed the timing required and get into pre-ignition and detonation. J.Rob

I have a buddy in the R+D biz that has the technology to data log cylinder pressure in real time and his research shows that detonation is happening long before you can hear it or see it in power data on a dyno when using commonly accepted total advance #'s. The pressure spikes started as you approached 30 deg and got progressively higher as the timing curve advanced to total.

I draw a similar conclusion based on the fact that there are guys on here that run boosted stock block combos at almost double the power levels that seem to beat the mains out of a stock block NA combo and the only thing I see different other than the boost is the timing curve. Mid 20's max. Little to no cap walk.

It is no accident that modern chambers like the Gen III Hemi or the LS are all done timing wise in the low 20's or less.

Kevin

We are saying pretty much the same thing. All you are saying is that total timing for max power is too much for longevity-in reality. I'm sure if we all had in cylinder pressure transducers we would find that we have been using too much timing all along. J.Rob

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/06/14 07:37 PM

That chamber will help timing requirements some but not drastically, mabey bring it down a couple degrees VS eddy, stealth, sidewinder, pro comp... Good chambers can make a big difference as was noted on the new Hemi and LS motors, even on the old small blocks you could bring the timing down a ton going from an X J or whatever open chamber to a magnum with a good tight quench.

Posted By: Twostick

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/06/14 07:44 PM

That's why I don't understand why all these head mfg's insist on plugging in the same stone age combustion chamber into a Mopar head.

When the SBC Vortec head came out, Hot Rod did a back to back comparison between a conventional SB head and the new Vortec. IIRC they both flowed similar numbers but the V head had a smaller combustion chamber so compression was up about a 1/2 point.

On the same nothing fancy short block the V head was 70 HP better peak and did it with less than 30 deg of timing. IF you can believe HR Mag.

Trick Flow seems to have figured out it doesn't cost any more to make the right combustion chamber pattern than the wrong one. If this chamber shape works as well as the Vortec one apparently does, they will sell boat loads of them.

Kevin

Posted By: RAMM

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/06/14 08:56 PM

Quote:

That's why I don't understand why all these head mfg's insist on plugging in the same stone age combustion chamber into a Mopar head.

When the SBC Vortec head came out, Hot Rod did a back to back comparison between a conventional SB head and the new Vortec. IIRC they both flowed similar numbers but the V head had a smaller combustion chamber so compression was up about a 1/2 point.

On the same nothing fancy short block the V head was 70 HP better peak and did it with less than 30 deg of timing. IF you can believe HR Mag.

Trick Flow seems to have figured out it doesn't cost any more to make the right combustion chamber pattern than the wrong one. If this chamber shape works as well as the Vortec one apparently does, they will sell boat loads of them.

Kevin

Every Vortec headed engine I test (mainly '602 crates) best timing for max torque and hp is 32 total. As an aside the overhead and dual plug arrangement and possibly being a tumble port is what contributes most to the G3's lack of timing requirements--not chamber shape in and of itself. J.Rob

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/06/14 09:57 PM

Yes the Hemi is tumble ports, something a lot harder (but possible usually at the expense of flow) to achieve with a wedge.

I also seem to keep seeing guys building the new hemi are claiming no difference firing both or only one plug, what have you found?

Posted By: RAMM

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/06/14 10:19 PM

Quote:

Yes the Hemi is tumble ports, something a lot harder (but possible usually at the expense of flow) to achieve with a wedge.

I also seem to keep seeing guys building the new hemi are claiming no difference firing both or only one plug, what have you found?

When you think about it--How can there be the same timing lead required when you have 2 plugs on opposite sides of the chamber? J.Rob

Posted By: Twostick

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/06/14 10:28 PM

Quote:

Yes the Hemi is tumble ports, something a lot harder (but possible usually at the expense of flow) to achieve with a wedge.

I also seem to keep seeing guys building the new hemi are claiming no difference firing both or only one plug, what have you found?

They might not see a difference in power but I would bet if they had an emissions sniffer on it they would likely see a difference there.

Kevin

Posted By: Airwoofer

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/06/14 10:49 PM

Quote:

More good close up photos here: http://www.hotrod.com/features/1411-tric...2014-sema-show/

Looks like winner to me, but nearly even with Modern CNC Edelbrock RPM head flow. I sure like that nice 21st century 78 cc combustion chamber. If they are priced right and truly ready to bolt on, they will be very tough to beat.

That finish on the CC is by far, 100-1 better than the finish I got on my Indy 440-1 heads. Those will never be right after they got smoothed out enough to bolt on.

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/07/14 12:11 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Yes the Hemi is tumble ports, something a lot harder (but possible usually at the expense of flow) to achieve with a wedge.

I also seem to keep seeing guys building the new hemi are claiming no difference firing both or only one plug, what have you found?

When you think about it--How can there be the same timing lead required when you have 2 plugs on opposite sides of the chamber? J.Rob

I know it makes sense but every thing I keep reading they say it don't make no difference on dyno or track

even read about the guys developing it said it did not make more power but was done for emmissions

I was curious if you had tried any with or without and what you found? Only reason I can think of to not change it is they are in really good locations already and the difference is too small to tell

Posted By: MattW

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/07/14 12:36 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Yes the Hemi is tumble ports, something a lot harder (but possible usually at the expense of flow) to achieve with a wedge.

I also seem to keep seeing guys building the new hemi are claiming no difference firing both or only one plug, what have you found?

When you think about it--How can there be the same timing lead required when you have 2 plugs on opposite sides of the chamber? J.Rob

What's a tumble port?

Posted By: Fury Fan

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/07/14 02:29 AM

A tumble port adds another dimension to the flow of the intake charge. We've all heard of swirl ports, which impart a curving swirl to the charge to help it mix when it enters the chamber.

Think of a tumble port as making the charge do a somersault when it comes in the room.

Tumble ports are not really new, Ford had them on some of the 4.6 and 5.4 32-valve engines of the late 90s-early 00s.

Posted By: BradH

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/07/14 06:15 PM

Two quick comments:
1. I'd like a set of these heads, even though they'd be a step backwards performance-wise from what I have now, simply because they look cool!

2. After looking through what else Trick Flow offers in heads for all makes, I question if the "Big Guns" here hoping for a new generation high-end BB Mopar head are going to see that from Trick Flow. One of their trademarked slogans is "Ultimate Bolt-on Performance!", and even their top-of-the-line BB Chevy & BB Ford heads don't appear (IMO at least) like anything more exotic than the equivalent of a nicely prepped B-1.

But I'm all eyes & ears when it comes to new BB Mopar heads!

Posted By: BradH

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/07/14 11:06 PM

Quote:

Looks like they have an intake manifold as well.

Yep, and it looks a LOT like the E Victor that's too tall for me to get under my hood, too.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/07/14 11:08 PM

DISCLAIMER: The opinions above have been posted by a street-car test-n-tuner with a "toy" flowbench and a rusty 10-second '73 Challenger that hasn't run since 2009

LOL

Posted By: BradH

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/07/14 11:27 PM

Quote:

DISCLAIMER: The opinions above have been posted by a street-car test-n-tuner with a "toy" flowbench and a rusty 10-second '73 Challenger that hasn't run since 2009

LOL

Hey, I believe in truth in advertising...

Posted By: BradH

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/11/14 05:07 PM

FWIW, there is a comment from Trick Flow in the article linked below that gives some idea of what they're considering for their next BB Mopar heads:

http://www.dragzine.com/features/sema-co...uction-package/

Posted By: all spooled up

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/11/14 11:22 PM

these heads are so nice im going to build a big block

Posted By: topbrent

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/11/14 11:52 PM

Nice looking intake.

Posted By: TheBlackCar

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/12/14 06:57 AM

Attached picture 8328741-0913141846b.jpg

Posted By: Jjs72D

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/12/14 09:55 AM

Quote:

Yes they will have 3 BB heads in the near future!

I thought V8 engines only had 2 heads on them.

Posted By: Kern Dog

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/12/14 09:58 AM

??????

Posted By: Exit1965

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/12/14 03:51 PM

Another video, not sure if posted already. This is called the "powerport 240" head...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl-P3VcH1yE

Posted By: Exit1965

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/12/14 04:41 PM

Quote:

FWIW, there is a comment from Trick Flow in the article linked below that gives some idea of what they're considering for their next BB Mopar heads:

http://www.dragzine.com/features/sema-co...uction-package/

I cannot view any comments on that article, they are all blank. Can you post what the comment was?

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/12/14 10:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

FWIW, there is a comment from Trick Flow in the article linked below that gives some idea of what they're considering for their next BB Mopar heads:

http://www.dragzine.com/features/sema-co...uction-package/

I cannot view any comments on that article, they are all blank. Can you post what the comment was?

They are going to make a 270 runner head and considering one with even bigger runners, offset rockers, etc.

Monte

Posted By: BBR

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/12/14 10:55 PM

There's a teaser dyno video on their FB page.

https://www.facebook.com/TrickFlowSpecialties

Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/13/14 03:11 AM

Great......

Another head that drops right in the middle of a sea of mundane offerings to power a BBM down Main St.. What's that, about a dozen or more BBM heads that can't outflow a decent SBC piece, but still have the ability to bust a piece of junk 45 year old block???

No good iron, or CG blocks and not a single head casting that can top the ancient PSO.

I NEVER thought I'd see a day when it was better to be a Pontiac guy, as far as the performance aftermarket and R & D worlds are concerned. What's next.....another stock style HEMI head???

What an absolute farce the MOPAR aftermarket is......

Posted By: dakotawilly

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/13/14 03:26 AM

the big mopar time machine is running backwards!!!next they will be recasting the 331-354 hemi heads and then an aluminum version of the poly heads.we are never going to see any good blocks thats a given.as we speak they are clearing out a spot for mopar in the smithsonian..but...we all have to applaud any efforts by manufactures to advance what we all know and love,mopar,even if its not a max effort gm killer product.this does show that there is a market for us,so maybe others will chime in with new and better products.until then,the big power boys will have to mill out a billet set of 5 in bore heads and build a block stretcher to use them.after all we been doing this kind of engineering for an eternity just to compete...

Posted By: Twostick

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/13/14 03:36 AM

Quote:

the big mopar time machine is running backwards!!!next they will be recasting the 331-354 hemi heads and then an aluminum version of the poly heads.we are never going to see any good blocks thats a given.as we speak they are clearing out a spot for mopar in the smithsonian..but...we all have to applaud any efforts by manufactures to advance what we all know and love,mopar,even if its not a max effort gm killer product.this does show that there is a market for us,so maybe others will chime in with new and better products....

I'm in for a set of those Poly heads.

Kevin

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/13/14 04:11 AM

Quote:

Great......

Another head that drops right in the middle of a sea of mundane offerings to power a BBM down Main St.. What's that, about a dozen or more BBM heads that can't outflow a decent SBC piece, but still have the ability to bust a piece of junk 45 year old block???

No good iron, or CG blocks and not a single head casting that can top the ancient PSO.

I NEVER thought I'd see a day when it was better to be a Pontiac guy, as far as the performance aftermarket and R & D worlds are concerned. What's next.....another stock style HEMI head???

What an absolute farce the MOPAR aftermarket is......

Trick Flow doesn't make blocks...perhaps you should whine to Block companies about the lack of BB mopar blocks...and not whine about getting a better quality of cylinder head than most of the current offerings.

Posted By: viperblue72

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/13/14 04:38 AM

Looks to me like the best bang for the buck head I've seen for a BBM.
There is not a bolt on head out there for the bb mopar that flows this much for this price that has this apparent quality.
So what's with all of the fuss?

Posted By: Harley

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/13/14 05:52 AM

Quote:

Looks to me like the best bang for the buck head I've seen for a BBM.
There is not a bolt on head out there for the bb mopar that flows this much for this price that has this apparent quality.
So what's with all of the fuss?

Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/13/14 06:11 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Great......

Another head that drops right in the middle of a sea of mundane offerings to power a BBM down Main St.. What's that, about a dozen or more BBM heads that can't outflow a decent SBC piece, but still have the ability to bust a piece of junk 45 year old block???

No good iron, or CG blocks and not a single head casting that can top the ancient PSO.

I NEVER thought I'd see a day when it was better to be a Pontiac guy, as far as the performance aftermarket and R & D worlds are concerned. What's next.....another stock style HEMI head???

What an absolute farce the MOPAR aftermarket is......

Trick Flow doesn't make blocks...perhaps you should whine to Block companies about the lack of BB mopar blocks...and not whine about getting a better quality of cylinder head than most of the current offerings.

Reading comprehension issue???

Did I SAY they make blocks???

I guess all these low power engines need a "better quality" cylinder head because the Ebrock, Indy, B1 and whatever other heads are out there in this category of cylinder head are just coming apart at the seems.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/13/14 06:41 AM

And we wonder why companies aren't jumping for a share of the Mopar market. The heads aren't even available yet and guys are already knocking the product. Have you guys even held a Trick Flow product in your hands?????? Well I have and trust me they offer some VERY nice stuff.

Posted By: rickb67

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/13/14 06:55 AM

AS I have stage 6 heads and the seats keep sinking and are warped every time I take them off. I will look at them closely over indy's.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/13/14 07:23 AM

Trick Flow also gives back to the racers. At this years Halloween Classic at Norwalk Ohio a racer I know won a 2500 dollar gift certificate from Trick Flow to use toward the purchase of a set of their heads.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/13/14 08:09 AM

Quote:

Great......

Another head that drops right in the middle of a sea of mundane offerings to power a BBM down Main St.. What's that, about a dozen or more BBM heads that can't outflow a decent SBC piece, but still have the ability to bust a piece of junk 45 year old block???

No good iron, or CG blocks and not a single head casting that can top the ancient PSO.

I NEVER thought I'd see a day when it was better to be a Pontiac guy, as far as the performance aftermarket and R & D worlds are concerned. What's next.....another stock style HEMI head???

What an absolute farce the MOPAR aftermarket is......

The REASON Trick Flow wants to get in here, is because sadly, this is where 95% of the Mopar market is. So they conclude, correctly I might add, that if they produce a better "bolt on" head to compete in this area, that it will do well........and it will.

The problem on more "serious" offerings is the same as it has always been. There are just not enough of those guys out there, trying to make REAL steam with a Mopar wedge. And the number that are is fading fast, because they get to the point of fed up and look elsewhere. The thread asking about the Mopar vs SR-20 thread is a prime example. The conclusion there is, it can't be done in anything resembling a remotely cost effective way. So eventually even the MOST die hard guy will give up an unwinnable fight.

As for the PSO head, sure it could be made better, but I am sure in Brodix eyes, why? So few are sold, that they run them in batches of 5 sets, not to mention most Mopar guys have never even HEARD of a PSO head anyway...........PLUS.......and THIS is and always has been the biggest drawback, the 4.800 bore center block just sucks...............So, you do all this development on a killer head, only to have it saddled by a 4.500 bore......whats the point? The SMART thing to do, would be just develop a PSO or similar style head, that would just "bolt on" a Chevy style block. But then the purists will completely crush that idea...........LOL!!

Monte

Posted By: all spooled up

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/13/14 03:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Great......

Another head that drops right in the middle of a sea of mundane offerings to power a BBM down Main St.. What's that, about a dozen or more BBM heads that can't outflow a decent SBC piece, but still have the ability to bust a piece of junk 45 year old block???

No good iron, or CG blocks and not a single head casting that can top the ancient PSO.

I NEVER thought I'd see a day when it was better to be a Pontiac guy, as far as the performance aftermarket and R & D worlds are concerned. What's next.....another stock style HEMI head???

What an absolute farce the MOPAR aftermarket is......

Trick Flow doesn't make blocks...perhaps you should whine to Block companies about the lack of BB mopar blocks...and not whine about getting a better quality of cylinder head than most of the current offerings.

Posted By: 64Post

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/13/14 06:45 PM

Well, the more I hear about their quality, the more I'm interested. I'm tired of having an exhaust port on my MCH RPMs welded up to fix a water leak.

Posted By: DoubleD

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/13/14 06:53 PM

The simple fact is that Trick-Flow is in the business to sell heads � remember they are an affiliate company of Summit Racing (read owned by) � They produce high quality products for a very focused market � I think it�s great we now have another quality option for an out of the box head � I know there is more to come � give them some time. It will be great to have a CNC�d true bolt on head that does not require extensive re-work or you have to worry about the seats falling out or a porous casting leaking or worse cracking.

Blocks will eventually come from somebody � demand is building � hence there is a market present � it�s just ma-Mopar has to loosen the reins a little for it to happen -although the rough casting may have to come from china to make the cost justifiable.

Posted By: BBR

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/13/14 07:14 PM

Since 2007 I have owned 2 sets of Trick Flow Powerport 290 heads for big Fords and their casting and machine work quality is fantastic. I never once had an issue with either set.

I am excited they are using their resources to expand their product line to any Mopar instead of using those resources to develop yet another SBC or SBF head.

Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/14/14 04:01 PM

Quote:

Well, the more I hear about their quality, the more I'm interested. I'm tired of having an exhaust port on my MCH RPMs welded up to fix a water leak.

Well thank the god of your choice that the heads CAN be welded..... I personally know of a Mopar head that can't due to the crap they casted them of.

Posted By: 67Satty

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/14/14 06:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Great......

Another head that drops right in the middle of a sea of mundane offerings to power a BBM down Main St.. What's that, about a dozen or more BBM heads that can't outflow a decent SBC piece, but still have the ability to bust a piece of junk 45 year old block???

No good iron, or CG blocks and not a single head casting that can top the ancient PSO.

I NEVER thought I'd see a day when it was better to be a Pontiac guy, as far as the performance aftermarket and R & D worlds are concerned. What's next.....another stock style HEMI head???

What an absolute farce the MOPAR aftermarket is......

Trick Flow doesn't make blocks...perhaps you should whine to Block companies about the lack of BB mopar blocks...and not whine about getting a better quality of cylinder head than most of the current offerings.

Reading comprehension issue???

Did I SAY they make blocks???

I guess all these low power engines need a "better quality" cylinder head because the Ebrock, Indy, B1 and whatever other heads are out there in this category of cylinder head are just coming apart at the seems.

OU812 doesn't have a reading comprehension issue.

Trick Flow doesn't make *any* products of the type you want, and you're upset because they're releasing something new of what they *do* make. If we follow your logic there should be no new products permitted by anyone unless they release a cylinder block first. Are you upset at all the different intake manifolds out there too???

So go get a home equity loan, find a pattern shop and casting house, and start working on it yourself. You'll find out quick why companies aren't flocking to do blocks.

Obviously you have the same reading comprehension issue.

Since my keyboard doesn't type in crayon, perhaps you should go back and re-read (SLOWLY) my original post.

Point out where I bemoaned Trick Flow not making blocks, as OU812 alluded to, or where I stated it should be Trick Flow that produces an upgrade to the ancient PSO, or Millennium HEMI.

If you, or anyone else cannot understand what you are reading, why comment and prove to the world your lack of comprehension??? No self esteem, perhaps??? Ignorant, perhaps??? An OU812 butt-hurt cheerleader, perhaps???

Ha ha ha....your reply seems to describe yourself more than anyone else could have!

Certainly not you, or that other simpleton.....

What's the problem......upset that you can't deny a single point in my original post, so you took it completely out of context in your idiotic response, or are your feelings hurt because I didn't pen a glowing welcome to yet ANOTHER run-o-the-mill cylinder head for a BBM that couldn't sniff a decent SBC, or SBF offering???

Why can't you just be happy for us little peons with the street/strip cars in the 400-600 hp range??? If their claims are true and they really are ready to bolt on (I know that might be a big if), they've made a head that will outflow both the RPM and the standard-port Indy EZ and beat both in price when you factor in not having to take them into someone before you can even think about using them. And why shouldn't they start with the head that they would sell the most of as the first offering?

How many total racers are even out there running something that needs more than what these can do compared to how many of us are out there with street/strip cars having fun driving our cars everywhere and driving them to the track?

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/14/14 07:20 PM

From SEMA new products display

Attached picture 8330962-20141105_104920.jpg

Posted By: Fury Fan

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/14/14 07:29 PM

Quote:

Obviously you have the same reading comprehension issue.

Since my keyboard doesn't type in crayon, perhaps you should go back and re-read (SLOWLY) my original post.

Point out where I bemoaned Trick Flow not making blocks, as OU812 alluded to, or where I stated it should be Trick Flow that produces an upgrade to the ancient PSO, or Millennium HEMI.

If you, or anyone else cannot understand what you are reading, why comment and prove to the world your lack of comprehension??? No self esteem, perhaps??? Ignorant, perhaps??? An OU812 butt-hurt cheerleader, perhaps???

Quote:

Ha ha ha....your reply seems to describe yourself more than anyone else could have!

Quote:

Certainly not you, or that other simpleton.....

What's the problem......upset that you can't deny a single point in my original post, so you took it completely out of context in your idiotic response, or are your feelings hurt because I didn't pen a glowing welcome to yet ANOTHER run-o-the-mill cylinder head for a BBM that couldn't sniff a decent SBC, or SBF offering???

Dang, nice slide into childishness, dude.

Did you accidentally put your maxipad on tape-side up or what???

I had someone explain it to me. And reeaal slow, �cuz I�m a simpleton.

They said there�s a new part out there, and even though 95% of us will embrace it, it�s not the type of part **you** want, and you�re grouchin� about it -- even though it doesn�t affect you whatsoever and you had no skin in bringing it out.

They said it seems you�ve forgotten what it was like ~10 years ago when this affordable aftermarket stuff didn�t exist for us.

They also thought if somebody did release a block, it probably wouldn�t be configured exactly the way you want anyway and you�d grouch about that.

Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/14/14 07:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Great......

Another head that drops right in the middle of a sea of mundane offerings to power a BBM down Main St.. What's that, about a dozen or more BBM heads that can't outflow a decent SBC piece, but still have the ability to bust a piece of junk 45 year old block???

No good iron, or CG blocks and not a single head casting that can top the ancient PSO.

I NEVER thought I'd see a day when it was better to be a Pontiac guy, as far as the performance aftermarket and R & D worlds are concerned. What's next.....another stock style HEMI head???

What an absolute farce the MOPAR aftermarket is......

Trick Flow doesn't make blocks...perhaps you should whine to Block companies about the lack of BB mopar blocks...and not whine about getting a better quality of cylinder head than most of the current offerings.

Reading comprehension issue???

Did I SAY they make blocks???

I guess all these low power engines need a "better quality" cylinder head because the Ebrock, Indy, B1 and whatever other heads are out there in this category of cylinder head are just coming apart at the seems.

OU812 doesn't have a reading comprehension issue.

Trick Flow doesn't make *any* products of the type you want, and you're upset because they're releasing something new of what they *do* make. If we follow your logic there should be no new products permitted by anyone unless they release a cylinder block first. Are you upset at all the different intake manifolds out there too???

So go get a home equity loan, find a pattern shop and casting house, and start working on it yourself. You'll find out quick why companies aren't flocking to do blocks.

Obviously you have the same reading comprehension issue.

Since my keyboard doesn't type in crayon, perhaps you should go back and re-read (SLOWLY) my original post.

Point out where I bemoaned Trick Flow not making blocks, as OU812 alluded to, or where I stated it should be Trick Flow that produces an upgrade to the ancient PSO, or Millennium HEMI.

If you, or anyone else cannot understand what you are reading, why comment and prove to the world your lack of comprehension??? No self esteem, perhaps??? Ignorant, perhaps??? An OU812 butt-hurt cheerleader, perhaps???

Ha ha ha....your reply seems to describe yourself more than anyone else could have!

Certainly not you, or that other simpleton.....

What's the problem......upset that you can't deny a single point in my original post, so you took it completely out of context in your idiotic response, or are your feelings hurt because I didn't pen a glowing welcome to yet ANOTHER run-o-the-mill cylinder head for a BBM that couldn't sniff a decent SBC, or SBF offering???

Why can't you just be happy for us little peons with the street/strip cars in the 400-600 hp range??? If their claims are true and they really are ready to bolt on (I know that might be a big if), they've made a head that will outflow both the RPM and the standard-port Indy EZ and beat both in price when you factor in not having to take them into someone before you can even think about using them. And why shouldn't they start with the head that they would sell the most of as the first offering?

How many total racers are even out there running something that needs more than what these can do compared to how many of us are out there with street/strip cars having fun driving our cars everywhere and driving them to the track?

The reason I'm not "happy" is because there are already multiple perfectly adequate choices for the "peons", as you call them, for street and bracket builds. Do you know how I know??? Because I had a regularly street driven low 9sec N/A BBM in the early 90s using the 1st Indy offerings. Since then, numerous other heads have been released that cover that performance level and most of them have been just fine.

I am the last person that needs to be lectured on the issues of the economics of MOPARLAND, or the inherent problem with the 40 we give up to the BBC in bore space and the 100 we give up to Ford, but I also know that other makes, including Pontiac are seriously handicapped when it comes to bore centers, yet the Pontiac aftermarket has made huge strides in high potential head and block castings........including from Edlebrock.

That MOPAR racers can't pick up the phone with credit card in hand and order even a single brand new, state-of-the-art iron, or CG engine block (big, or small) for a reasonable market driven price and have it in hand in a couple days, along with cylinder heads either finished, semi finished, or raw, that incorporate the advances that have been made since the PSO and Millennium were cooked up............is ludicrous.

It has nothing to do with not being "happy" for the "peons", as you call them, because not only have I spent WELL over 300k since 1976 when I began pouring money into this hobby..........I am also one of those "peons" you labeled.

What's really funny is......my friend and fellow "peon" recently scored a new set of W2s and is looking for a good guy to build him a street/strip 408 for his Dart. I recommended OU812.

Posted By: Troy

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/14/14 07:45 PM

As soon as I saw this thread I new it was going to go down this road. Every time a new product comes out the arm chair quarter backs come out and think they could do a better job.

If this new product does not work for you then move on.....no need to bash it!!

Some of you people need to get out from behind the key board.....get in the real world and build something before you shoot off your mouth.

ok, have a nice day.

Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/14/14 08:05 PM

Quote:

As soon as I saw this thread I new it was going to go down this road. Every time a new product comes out the arm chair quarter backs come out and think they could do a better job.

If this new product does not work for you then move on.....no need to bash it!!

Some of you people need to get out from behind the key board.....get in the real world and build something before you shoot off your mouth.

ok, have a nice day.

This could be the best head in it's class for it's intended purpose.

Point out EXACTLY where I "bashed it", or learn how to read.

Since you have no trouble shooting your mouth off, anytime you want to step into the real world and try your luck with either of my "somethings"......feel free. I'm just a lowly street guy with a really good spot for you to come take my money.......in the real world.

Ya game???

Posted By: Fury Fan

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/14/14 08:15 PM

Quote:

What's really funny is......my friend and fellow "peon" recently scored a new set of W2s and is looking for a good guy to build him a street/strip 408 for his Dart. I recommended OU812.

When you say 'really funny' in that context, what does that mean? I surely don't want my bad comprehension to garner more of your scorn. Can you no longer recommend him because you're in defend-my-sentences mode with him, or ???

Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/14/14 08:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

As soon as I saw this thread I new it was going to go down this road. Every time a new product comes out the arm chair quarter backs come out and think they could do a better job.

If this new product does not work for you then move on.....no need to bash it!!

Some of you people need to get out from behind the key board.....get in the real world and build something before you shoot off your mouth.

ok, have a nice day.

This could be the best head in it's class for it's intended purpose.

Point out EXACTLY where I "bashed it", or learn how to read.

Since you have no trouble shooting your mouth off, anytime you want to step into the real world and try your luck with either of my "somethings"......feel free. I'm just a lowly street guy with a really good spot for you to come take my money.......in the real world.

Ya game???

Come on Jimmy, you aint got nothing fast.

Posted By: Troy

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/14/14 08:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

As soon as I saw this thread I new it was going to go down this road. Every time a new product comes out the arm chair quarter backs come out and think they could do a better job.

If this new product does not work for you then move on.....no need to bash it!!

Some of you people need to get out from behind the key board.....get in the real world and build something before you shoot off your mouth.

ok, have a nice day.

This could be the best head in it's class for it's intended purpose.

Point out EXACTLY where I "bashed it", or learn how to read.

Since you have no trouble shooting your mouth off, anytime you want to step into the real world and try your luck with either of my "somethings"......feel free. I'm just a lowly street guy with a really good spot for you to come take my money.......in the real world.

Ya game???

Posted By: Eric

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/14/14 09:10 PM

Look what a little bit of snow brings us.....Lighten up everybody...

Posted By: EchoSixMike

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/14/14 09:27 PM

Oh FFS.

OK, for the purposes of usefulness, what could you do with a -1 or B-1 offset rocker and say a 6.0 to 6.2 OAL valve of 2.30 or so diameter to fit within a 4.8 BS block?

The NASCAR guys are running valves that long in 358's with 4.1 bores and making 900+ HP that lives for 500-600 miles, so why not a BB? S/F.....Ken M

Posted By: Troy

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/14/14 09:34 PM

[quote

Next time, try to understand what you're commenting on BEFORE you comment.

I do and I did....your the one that is all defensive.

I was happy to see a new product come out for any Mopar engine. Heads, blocks and anything is nice to see. It means that the Mopar market is growing and that gives us all more options.

The point I was trying to make is many times a thread pops up on Moparts somebody always says "its not what we need" or "its to expensive" or "why did they build it like that". That is all I was trying to say.

Jim....I was not talking directly to you.

P.S. 8:60s at 160MPH all motor, How fast have you gone?? If you have gone faster then

. If not then

Posted By: Fury Fan

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/14/14 09:54 PM

Quote:

I was happy to see a new product come out for any Mopar engine. Heads, blocks and anything is nice to see. It means that the Mopar market is growing and that gives us all more options.

Maybe TF will come out with a B-engine EFI manifold for the 451-496 guys, that market has been totally ignored. I probably wouldn't buy one, but other guys would be glad to get them, and I'd be glad they were out there if I was ever needing one.

Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/14/14 10:31 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Come on Jimmy, you aint got nothing fast.

I cannot debate this.

Posted By: dakotawilly

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/15/14 12:22 AM

for all intensive purposes we all get aggrevated when we reach a performance level and hit the wall for lack of available parts.the new trick flow heads appear to have great quality and potential for those who use them.all the better.its very hard to understand why the mopar block situation has reached this level at all considering that block castings have been around since horses were delivering milk and nobody except kb can get it right in 2014.i dont think anybody here was or is bashing new parts,just the lack of higher level performance parts.i for one hope that these new parts are like chinese resturaunts,when one pops up,in 30 days there will be 75 more.the ultimate goal for everyone is to go faster....

Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/15/14 02:23 AM

Quote:

for all intensive purposes we all get aggrevated when we reach a performance level and hit the wall for lack of available parts.the new trick flow heads appear to have great quality and potential for those who use them.all the better.its very hard to understand why the mopar block situation has reached this level at all considering that block castings have been around since horses were delivering milk and nobody except kb can get it right in 2014.i dont think anybody here was or is bashing new parts,just the lack of higher level performance parts.i for one hope that these new parts are like chinese resturaunts,when one pops up,in 30 days there will be 75 more.the ultimate goal for everyone is to go faster....

Exactly....

There isn't an individual in this thread that responded negatively to any of my posts that can point to a single "bash" of the Trick Flow head on the merits of the head on my part, as their subsequent posts prove.

Hence, my questioning of their blatant lack of comprehension. Obviously, it's easier to respond to your own musings than to those of someone you take issue with.

I drive around town in a 2550# backhalf Dart with a 900hp N/A small block that's as nice as ANY Dart on this forum and a 1620hp screw blown HEMI in a composite round tube Cuda', that's as nice as ANY Cuda' on this forum. I'm not sitting around playing with myself (well.....maybe sometimes). I buy parts.....and cannot believe there hasn't been a SINGLE modern upgrade after the long in the tooth straight head W8, PSO, or the Millennium HEMI.

Chevy is at a 60 handicap against Ford in the bore space department, yet that has not stopped the performance aftermarket from developing countless heads able to reach any desired power level attainable with current technology. We are "only" 40 less than Chevy compared to Chevy being 60 less than Ford and in some cases our aluminum blocks CAN be ordered in 4.840. Of course for economic reasons nobody in their right mind would expect a flow of hardware Ford and Chevy enjoy.......but to not have a SINGLE option better than the outdated W8, PSO, or Millennium HEMI (which is far less affected by bore space with it's opposed valves), unless ones decides to build a Pro Stock big, or small block and has ZERO options when it comes to a modern CG, or iron block casting, is absolutely insane.....in my opinion.

Especially when you consider the Pontiac engine is saddled with laughable factory bore spacing, EXCEPT when machined in specialized fashion, yet they have access to iron blocks and aluminum heads that are more current than MOPAR offerings.

No offense to Trick Flow for making a sound business decision for the company, but as time goes on and the parts situation becomes WORSE instead of better, it's aggravating. This is MOPAR for Christ sake. A company with a championship heritage in motorsports......not Tucker.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/15/14 02:33 AM

Quote:

There isn't an individual in this thread that responded negatively to any of my posts that can point to a single "bash" of the Trick Flow head on the merits of the head on my part, as their subsequent posts prove.

Hence, my questioning of their blatant lack of comprehension.

Did you not Comprehend what this thread was about ????

It says right in the title

Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/15/14 02:41 AM

Quote:

Quote:

There isn't an individual in this thread that responded negatively to any of my posts that can point to a single "bash" of the Trick Flow head on the merits of the head on my part, as their subsequent posts prove.

Hence, my questioning of their blatant lack of comprehension.

Did you not Comprehend what this thread was about ????

It says right in the title

Perfectly.....

What's your point.......that unless I gushed over a yet another head that overlaps existing offerings performance wise, commenting is off limits somehow???

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/15/14 02:45 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

There isn't an individual in this thread that responded negatively to any of my posts that can point to a single "bash" of the Trick Flow head on the merits of the head on my part, as their subsequent posts prove.

Hence, my questioning of their blatant lack of comprehension.

Did you not Comprehend what this thread was about ????

It says right in the title

Perfectly.....

What's your point.......that unless I gushed over a yet another head that overlaps existing offerings performance wise, commenting is off limits somehow???

YOUR Comprehension continues to be way off.....you are going off on a tangent again.

Go polish your show cars, might relieve some of your pent up hostilities

Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/15/14 03:05 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

There isn't an individual in this thread that responded negatively to any of my posts that can point to a single "bash" of the Trick Flow head on the merits of the head on my part, as their subsequent posts prove.

Hence, my questioning of their blatant lack of comprehension.

Did you not Comprehend what this thread was about ????

It says right in the title

Perfectly.....

What's your point.......that unless I gushed over a yet another head that overlaps existing offerings performance wise, commenting is off limits somehow???

YOUR Comprehension continues to be way off.....you are going off on a tangent again.

Go polish your show cars, might relieve some of your pent up hostilities

Another one who can't answer a simple question.

Wanna take a crack at one of the "show" cars???

I'm easy to find on the Rt. 25 connector.

Posted By: Spaceman Spiff

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/15/14 03:23 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

There isn't an individual in this thread that responded negatively to any of my posts that can point to a single "bash" of the Trick Flow head on the merits of the head on my part, as their subsequent posts prove.

Hence, my questioning of their blatant lack of comprehension.

Did you not Comprehend what this thread was about ????

It says right in the title

Perfectly.....

What's your point.......that unless I gushed over a yet another head that overlaps existing offerings performance wise, commenting is off limits somehow???

YOUR Comprehension continues to be way off.....you are going off on a tangent again.

Go polish your show cars, might relieve some of your pent up hostilities

Another one who can't answer a simple question.

Wanna take a crack at one of the "show" cars???

I'm easy to find on the Rt. 25 connector.

I'll be your DP man.... $500 for $5,000 sound about right?

Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/15/14 03:40 AM

you do have a pretty nice "show" car Jim. Love that small block Dart.

Posted By: RobX4406

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/15/14 03:47 AM

I'll sum up this thread. Let me see if I got this straight?

Posted By: Skeptic

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/15/14 04:03 AM

Quote:

Unlike every single mopar head out there, these heads are a TRUE bolt on!
And they actually flow as advertised...and they have upgraded hardware.

This is the first of 3 heads they will offer...

Take note what they flow, the quality castings, machine work and parts, then compare them with Eddy or whoever's heads. You'll quickly see they are priced damn good!

Hey, Brian. I was wondering what makes the Trick Flows more of a bolt-on than the RPM, Stealth, Sidewinder, et al heads that are flooding the market? I like the better combustion chambers, but I'm not quite ready to yank my IMM massaged RPMs off for a set of Quick Flows- just yet anyway.

I'll not complain about competition or question the T.F. marketing strategy. I'm sure they have a marketing team that knows more than I about selling heads. It makes sense to me to start selling heads that have a market of 1000s as opposed to a PSO/Predator killer with a market of 10s. Especially with the other limitations of the B/RB wedge noted by persons that know far more about that than I do.

Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/15/14 04:04 AM

Quote:

you do have a pretty nice "show" car Jim. Love that small block Dart.

Thanks....

I almost considered taking it to a car show once.

And again.....I have no desire, nor was it my intention to demean Trick flow, or their new product. Just venting on the state of the MOPAR aftermarket.......or lack thereof. In hindsight, I probably should have done it in a dedicated thread.

As for anyone who was offended.......oh well.

Posted By: B1HEAD_USER

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/15/14 04:05 AM

They should eliminate the quote option. It would stop some of this BS and make the thread easier to read.

Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/15/14 04:20 AM

All someone needs to do is take one of these heads with some good valvetrain+ 20psi and go run 8's. Yep.

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/16/14 08:50 PM

Quote:

Hey, Brian. I was wondering what makes the Trick Flows more of a bolt-on than the RPM, Stealth, Sidewinder, et al heads that are flooding the market? I like the better combustion chambers, but I'm not quite ready to yank my IMM massaged RPMs off for a set of Quick Flows- just yet anyway.
I'll not complain about competition or question the T.F. marketing strategy. I'm sure they have a marketing team that knows more than I about selling heads. It makes sense to me to start selling heads that have a market of 1000s as opposed to a PSO/Predator killer with a market of 10s. Especially with the other limitations of the B/RB wedge noted by persons that know far more about that than I do.

Able to run 3/8 pushrods with no clearancing, no touch up valve job, no touch up guide honing needed, much higher quality spring/retainer/lock combo, higher quality valves, no porting necessary....all of the fore mentioned heads need some work to be right...requiring more money and time wasted.

Posted By: tex013

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/16/14 11:03 PM

3/8" pushrods bewdy - after grinding my 2nd set of stealths I still had to go 5'16" pushrods

it is good to see company come to the fore with product .
Hey where i live it is hard enough getting a decent cam off the shelf let alone choice of heads .
You fellas have got it easy so stop complaining . Wanting new blocks - just getting an old 440 block you have to pay like it was solid gold here .

Tex

Posted By: Skeptic

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 11/18/14 04:17 AM

Thanks for the reply

It's good to see more quality options for these obsolete motors.

Posted By: GY3

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 12/20/14 11:55 PM

When are these going to be released?

Looking to buy a pair.

Posted By: 64Post

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 12/21/14 08:27 AM

Quote:

Looking to buy a pair.

I've said for years that if anybody ever needed a pair/set, it was you...

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 12/21/14 08:32 AM

Quote:

When are these going to be released?

Looking to buy a pair.

Release date is about April...I believe they are waiting on a large supply of valves.
I've already taken orders on 6 sets! Plus we'll be doing some testing of our own with them.
When I get more info on the 440 TF built I'll post it up.

Posted By: GY3

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 12/21/14 09:20 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Looking to buy a pair.

I've said for years that if anybody ever needed a pair/set, it was you...

Maybe I should clarify.

Looking to get some head(s).

Posted By: moparguy7074

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 12/21/14 12:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Looking to buy a pair.

I've said for years that if anybody ever needed a pair/set, it was you...

Maybe I should clarify.

Looking to get some head(s).

Aren't we all!!!

Posted By: GomangoCuda

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 12/21/14 07:13 PM

Quote:

Looking to get some head(s).

Try Craigslist for that.

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 12/21/14 11:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Looking to get some head(s).

Try Craigslist for that.

LOL!

Posted By: tubtar

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads - 12/22/14 01:36 AM

Quote:

I'll sum up this thread. Let me see if I got this straight?

Well , I did expect to see more coal on the ground , but otherwise I think you have , to paraphrase Dickie Dunn , captured the flavor of the thing.

I have read through it twice and consider myself to have average comprehension skills.......I don't see where Jim said anything that was not true.
Nor did I get the impression that he was pulling his recommendation of IMM for doing a W-2.
Maybe it comes down to who's ox is being gored ?
These heads are nice offerings that improve on existing parts.
Revolutionary ?
We all know better.
And his point that the MoPar aftermarket has not kept pace with any other manufacturers in terms of significant improvements is spot on.
Now.........do we debate the definition of significant ?
Because we'll need a couple more locomotives and a lot more shovels if we want to go down that road.

Trick Flow introduces BBM heads