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Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET?

Posted By: MikeyT

Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/25/14 04:18 AM

Hi,

I am just curious... Does switching to a manual valve body in a transmission yield better ET, or is it more about consistency?

If they do get you better track times? What kind of gains do you see?

Mikey
Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/25/14 04:54 AM

No gains unless you've got something wrong with the stock valve body. Just helps up the line pressure and offers more control to the driver.
Posted By: B3422W5

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/25/14 05:10 AM

I don't understand how it couldn't help immensely.
You can shift firmer, less overlap, and quicker at the exact rpm the car likes( after trial and error).
Posted By: MikeyT

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/25/14 06:03 AM

I would think consistency as well, we will see if it improves ET tomorrow!


Mikey
Posted By: Hutch

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/25/14 06:08 AM

If you had an auto valve body that worked well and you converted it to a manual shift (forward pattern) you would see no difference at all. If you convert to a reverse manual valve body that has no low band apply you may notice a slightly better ET if what you had before had some overlap.

Many variables will determine the outcome of this question.


Hutch
Posted By: MikeyT

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/25/14 06:13 AM

Cool, thanks guys

Mikey

I will post results

Currently heap does 13.81 at 96 mph
Posted By: StealthWedge67

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/25/14 08:13 AM

Paul Forte at Turbo Action told me I could expect as much as 2 tenths going from a stock valve-body to the T/A manual..... I saw nothing. I'd make this mod again in a heartbeat, though. I used to struggle with finding the right throttle pressure setting. No worries on upshifts now, the next gear is always right there.
Posted By: BSB67

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/25/14 02:30 PM

Quote:

If you had an auto valve body that worked well and you converted it to a manual shift (forward pattern) you would see no difference at all. If you convert to a reverse manual valve body that has no low band apply you may notice a slightly better ET if what you had before had some overlap.

Many variables will determine the outcome of this question.


Hutch



Lets not forget that it takes hp to drive the pump at a higher pressure
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/25/14 02:38 PM

Firmer shifts and less overlap. That has to be worth something. In my case I was setting the 2nd gear band too tight, was worth half a tenth to get it right!
There can also be an overlap in manual low/2nd. That can be severe if a shift kit isn't done right.
Posted By: BSB67

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/25/14 03:15 PM

Quote:

Cool, thanks guys

Mikey

I will post results

Currently heap does 13.81 at 96 mph



You will need to keep other variables as constant as possible to actually come to any clear conclusion. A couple of key variables are engine, water and oil temperature, 60 ft time, and atmospheric conditions. You will need the weather data from the past and the new track events so that you can adjust for these. Also, did you make ANY other changes to the car since your last outing?

Without holding these variables close, the manual VB might actually help, but the car slows .2, or it does not help at all, and the car picks up .3.

Be cautious on what you think you are learning.
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/25/14 11:51 PM

Quote:

Paul Forte at Turbo Action told me I could expect as much as 2 tenths going from a stock valve-body to the T/A manual..... I saw nothing. I'd make this mod again in a heartbeat, though. I used to struggle with finding the right throttle pressure setting. No worries on upshifts now, the next gear is always right there.

I have seen many times a car pick up .2 but it depends on how bad off the other set was.
Posted By: MikeyT

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/26/14 03:21 PM

Dang! I actually lost a bit best run14.2 at 95 mph

Mikey
Posted By: Big Squeeze

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/26/14 06:01 PM

Quote:

Dang! I actually lost a bit best run14.2 at 95 mph

Mikey



That's not because of the VB...you have something else going on...
Posted By: BSB67

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/26/14 08:05 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Dang! I actually lost a bit best run14.2 at 95 mph

Mikey



That's not because of the VB...you have something else going on...



Hmmm, maybe back to what I said earlier.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/26/14 11:19 PM

Mopar drag engineers, Tom Hoover and others, did a lot of A,B,A tesing on many different valve bodies, shift kits and so on back in the late 1960 and early 1970s. T/A manual valve bodies at that time where measurably better than the rest out there back then I heard later that Winters came up with one that might have been .002 to .003 better than the T/A, maybe not due to weather and track changes in the time it takes to change the V.B. All of the LBA I've heard of are a little slower than the same brand no L.B.A. valve bodies More reasons to have a very good front drum instead of a stocker
Posted By: MikeyT

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/27/14 03:22 AM

Totally agree with you all, but am kind of stumped. The car is nice, starts up nice, drives nice, but I feel like it is kind of a dog.. 14.2, with a best of 13.81, at 96 mph and I feel like it should have a lot more in it, then it does..

Mikey
Posted By: Hutch

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/27/14 04:36 AM

MPH was almost the same so we know the power was similar on both tests. Where in the run was all the ET lost?



Hutch
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/27/14 08:13 AM

i've seen many, many aftermarket shifter cables mal or misadjusted, that flat eats up HP and transmissions, especially in our 727 and 904 I learned a long time ago to make sure the pin on the end of the cable end that rotates on the cable to adjust the length that fits into the shifter arm on the valve body drops in in nuetral, 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear. DROPS IN If it doesn't adjust the cable hieght and angle on the tranny bracket that hold the cable to the shifter arm until the cable end drops in by itself in all four positions Some the different shifters companys don't designate which way they want the pin to be install, from the top of the shifter arm or from the bottom, if your doesn't sometimes 1/2 a turn on the cable end will make the difference in dropping and not dropping Good luck , lets us know how it works out
Posted By: MikeyT

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/27/14 02:28 PM

Hutch,

Believe it or not but my 60 foot time, my best was 2.2. Also, Cab I agree I am always worried about TF linkage, so I had my transmission guy help set it up correctly.

My concern is HP in general

A 9:1 440 with decent 915 heads, headers, 703 lunati cam, Holley dominator intake,and 750 carb , SHOULD be able to push a car into low 13's at
Least..
Posted By: 80fbody

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/27/14 03:31 PM

Get some DOT stickies and watch how quick you times drop. Don't worry about et. Get that 60ft down and your et's will drop quickly.
Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/27/14 04:18 PM

Quote:

Hutch,

Believe it or not but my 60 foot time, my best was 2.2. Also, Cab I agree I am always worried about TF linkage, so I had my transmission guy help set it up correctly.

My concern is HP in general

A 9:1 440 with decent 915 heads, headers, 703 lunati cam, Holley dominator intake,and 750 carb , SHOULD be able to push a car into low 13's at
Least..




2.2 60'?!?!?!

I'ld be working on the 60' BEFORE anything else.
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/27/14 04:29 PM

Quote:

i've seen many, many aftermarket shifter cables mal or misadjusted, that flat eats up HP and transmissions, especially in our 727 and 904 I learned a long time ago to make sure the pin on the end of the cable end that rotates on the cable to adjust the length that fits into the shifter arm on the valve body drops in in nuetral, 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear. DROPS IN If it doesn't adjust the cable hieght and angle on the tranny bracket that hold the cable to the shifter arm until the cable end drops in by itself in all four positions Some the different shifters companys don't designate which way they want the pin to be install, from the top of the shifter arm or from the bottom, if your doesn't sometimes 1/2 a turn on the cable end will make the difference in dropping and not dropping Good luck , lets us know how it works out



Man I went through the cable deal a while ago where it banged into gear violently on shifts so I crawled under to adjust it at the trans and all was fine. Well confused I decided to check the cable at the shifter and the adjusting nuts were loose...........star washers and all so I cranked em tight re-checked it again at the trans and all`s good. I know it`s ok cos I waxed two Chevys since then...........
Posted By: MikeyT

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/27/14 05:01 PM

Ok... Well let's look at it..

3990 lb race weight 3600 stall converter 3.55 gears 275/60/15 nitto drag radials ran at 20 psi

Launched at 2000, 2500 , and 3000 rpms and it felt like it hooked

Mike
Posted By: 67Satty

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/27/14 06:02 PM

I probably have a pretty similar combo except maybe a little less weight but a low-compression 440 with a hydraulic cam and stock 452 heads.

I can usually get a bunch of 1.68-1.70 60 foot times. If it does a 1.70 and above, I can feel it spinning.

What kind of springs and shocks do you run? Is there a front sway bar hooked up?

I'd try some bias ply D.O.T. slicks like the Hoosier Quicktime Pros to see if that helps the 60 foot times.
Posted By: Paul_Fancsali

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/27/14 06:17 PM

How tall are your tires? looks like you need a little more rear gear. My 73 with 7.5 comp E-58 ran 14.3 at 95.5 and it weighs the same with 3.91s The Turbo action man valve bodys all were fast shifting but very hard on drive train U joints etc. Went with full automatic valve body using Darrell Young mods and never looked back. Car with shift fast and firm 24 years after it was built with 30K or more on trans car is faster in drive and shifts can be set for 5300 or 5700 in drive
Posted By: MikeyT

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/27/14 06:56 PM

Ok, here is a launch before transmission and vb change( notice nice little flair between 2-3 shift)
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10202733150713926&l=732393316980219169

The car has 90/10 culverts upfront
Sway was still connected
9 way adjustable Rancho's out back
SS springs with 3.55 gears
Tires were 275/60/15 at 22psi of pressure
It just looks lazy off the line.

This is the best it has done
Posted By: 80fbody

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/27/14 07:16 PM

Looks like very little weight transfer to me. Things like trunk mounted battery, sway bar removal, clamp front of rear springs, etc would all help to try and get some more transfer. I'm sure there's a few guys with heavy b-bodies on here that can get you pointed in the right direction.
Posted By: QTR MILR

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/28/14 02:17 AM

It does sound lazy out of the hole. What is the timing set at, initial and total? Also have you tried playing with the accelerator pump at all??
Posted By: BSB67

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/28/14 02:42 AM

So lets be clear. The car went 13.81 @ 96 w/ a 1.9 60ft, and then went a 14.2 @ 95 with a 2.2 60 ft.. Right?

It appears that most or all of the difference between your best run and last outing is in the 60 ft.

Posting both time slips will help.


The bottom line is that if you don't find more horsepower, the car will never go faster than 13.5. That would be with a perfect suspension. A 1.9 60 ft in a 260 hp 4000 lb car is not that bad.
Posted By: MikeyT

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/28/14 03:20 AM

Initial. 22 degrees and 38 total at 2500,

And I agree at 4000 lb and 260 hp, that would be what I expect but this is a mildly built 440, it should have more then 260 hp in it? I am not talking something crazy but I think it should have more?

My question is why... Possible jumped teeth on timing chain, something else?

Mikey

Ps maybe it is just time to throw my stroker 508 in it and be done with it
Posted By: MikeyT

Re: Manual valve bodies... Do they improve ET? - 10/28/14 03:25 AM

Also, agsin... Thank you so much for all the knowledge and expertise...I always feel very fortunate to have such wide variety of help!

Thanks agsin guys
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