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518 transmission question

Posted By: Hemi_Joel

518 transmission question - 09/21/14 08:43 PM

my 93 1 ton dodge has a turned up cummins diesel and the automatic overdrive transmission. I had the transmission beefed up and rebuilt 80,000 miles ago, and it has performed flawlessly. The truck is always heavily loaded with a big camper in the bed, and usually towing a trailer, always on out of town trips. I am wondering, after 80,000 miles is there anything that I need to do to maintain this transmission and keep it going reliably? Like band ajustment or something? I do change the fluid and filter very regularly. I do not want anymore breakdowns 1000 miles from home like i had last february when the flexplate broke.
I am rather ignorant when it comes to automatics. Thanks, Joel
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/21/14 08:50 PM

Since you change the fluid and filter.. just check
the band adjustment.. only other thing you might want
to check is that the conv bolts are tight
Posted By: Big Squeeze

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/22/14 05:03 AM

There is no guarantee it won't break down 1,000 miles from home...all you can do is keep the fluid clean...if it's red, it's a waste to change it IMHO...once the bands are adjusted, I never check them again...that adjustment will only move if it's been slipping and you'll feel that...
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/22/14 07:26 PM

Even in the mildest service, friction material will wear and the band adjustment will need to be checked/reset periodically.

Pull the pan on a trans with clean red fluid and you'll usually find the powdery residue left from clutch/band wear.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/22/14 07:32 PM

Quote:

Even in the mildest service, friction material will wear and the band adjustment will need to be checked/reset periodically.

Pull the pan on a trans with clean red fluid and you'll usually find the powdery residue left from clutch/band wear.





The front band is STOPPING a spinning drum , it's going to wear. the rear band is 99.9% of the time grabbing a drum that is not spinning.
Posted By: Big Squeeze

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/23/14 03:58 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Even in the mildest service, friction material will wear and the band adjustment will need to be checked/reset periodically.

Pull the pan on a trans with clean red fluid and you'll usually find the powdery residue left from clutch/band wear.





The front band is STOPPING a spinning drum , it's going to wear. the rear band is 99.9% of the time grabbing a drum that is not spinning.



and peeing in the ocean raises the tide too.....

It takes a TON of driving for the band to be worn enough to require adjustment......

Clutches stop drums from spinning too..........and there's normal wear and tear from them too.........may as well pull the trans and reset clutch clearances every service too.......
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/23/14 07:50 PM

Quote:

It takes a TON of driving for the band to be worn enough to require adjustment....



Mopar should have listened to you and eliminated the threaded adjuster...coulda just set the band on initial assembly ala the TH400 and let it go.
Posted By: Hemi_Joel

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/23/14 07:55 PM

Thanks for all the replies. I don't suppose it will hurt to check it while it is on the hoist.
Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/24/14 02:19 AM

the lining on a new band is maybe 1/16" thick if you get enough wear that adjusting it makes much difference you have bigger issues.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/24/14 02:53 AM

Quote:

the lining on a new band is maybe 1/16" thick if you get enough wear that adjusting it makes much difference you have bigger issues.



It might not make a difference but it would be back
in spec... thats a large diameter band and if you do
the 3.1416 X the diameter that can be a turn or so
on the adjuster..
what does it ever hurt to set the band.. hell it even
helps the shift timing
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/24/14 03:04 AM

Quote:

my 93 1 ton dodge has a turned up cummins diesel and the automatic overdrive transmission. I had the transmission beefed up and rebuilt 80,000 miles ago, and it has performed flawlessly. The truck is always heavily loaded with a big camper in the bed, and usually towing a trailer, always on out of town trips.

With that use, the front band adjustment just makes sense. You are doing a good job with fluid and filter changes, and I assume cleaning the gunk in the bottom of the pan when it is off to change the filter. The trans fluid temperature is important also, but without a temperature gauge, I can't make any guesses.

When I have the pan off, I like to adjust the front band by using a 5/16" allen wrench as a "feeler gauge" between the front servo and the lever. Pull the lever by hand firmly and set the adjustment. It is more consistant than "torque to 72 in-lbs and back off", but can only be done with the pan off.
Posted By: 1KoolBee

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/24/14 03:28 AM

It's basically a 727 with OD and converter lockup. Same basic maintenance schedule as a '63 imperial, but the band adjustments may be a little different. Be careful towing in OD, that Cummins can easily kill the OD unit as it will happily drag a 10K load up a decent grade in OD. The only difference between a v6 OD unit and a diesel is a few clutches and an extra planetary pinion. The torque wants to shove the guts out the back of the case and will actually stretch the case. Don't ask me how I know......
Posted By: Hemi_Joel

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/24/14 04:32 AM

the guy who built the transmission for me did modifications to the overdrive so that it will live under heavy load.I'm driving all over the country in overdrive at 20000 pounds, so he must have done a good job. The truck has a transmission cooler with a fan on mounted under the bed + the cooler inside the radiator. The truck has a tranns temp. Guage. it never gets above 180, unless the engine coolant temperature gets above that, then it seems to heat the transmission fluid up to engine temperature.
Posted By: 1KoolBee

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/24/14 04:37 AM

Sounds like you did it right, unlike some of us who have to learn the hard way!
Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/24/14 05:54 AM

Quote:

Quote:

the lining on a new band is maybe 1/16" thick if you get enough wear that adjusting it makes much difference you have bigger issues.



It might not make a difference but it would be back
in spec... thats a large diameter band and if you do
the 3.1416 X the diameter that can be a turn or so
on the adjuster..
what does it ever hurt to set the band.. hell it even
helps the shift timing





It doesn't hurt anything at all and it is easy to do so its no big deal to check it.

It was standard practice to adjust all bands when we serviced a unit but 99% of the time they where never out enough to even show up.

I guess what I am trying to get at is I have adjusted probably 1000 bands on all kinds of different units over 27 years in the business and have rarely found one to be out of adjustment enough to make any difference in the way the unit worked.

If the unit was built correctly and adjusted correctly to begin with and it is functioning as it should I doubt you will see any difference after a band adjustment.

now if the band was never adjusted correctly to begin with when the unit was built or there is another problem than that is a different story.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/24/14 02:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Even in the mildest service, friction material will wear and the band adjustment will need to be checked/reset periodically.

Pull the pan on a trans with clean red fluid and you'll usually find the powdery residue left from clutch/band wear.





The front band is STOPPING a spinning drum , it's going to wear. the rear band is 99.9% of the time grabbing a drum that is not spinning.



and peeing in the ocean raises the tide too.....

It takes a TON of driving for the band to be worn enough to require adjustment......

Clutches stop drums from spinning too..........and there's normal wear and tear from them too.........may as well pull the trans and reset clutch clearances every service too.......



If you say so ...
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/24/14 06:26 PM

My 06 3500 diesel smoked the trans at 40,000 miles, took out band and half the front clutches. Seems it was a pressure problem but it has a 5.0 lever( alot of servo movement not much band movement) and i adjust every 15,000 now, should have switched to a 3.9 also added GM valve on the valve body to help that pressure problem. I would say at 80,000 miles pulling a heavy load get a new trans ready, clutches and band just about used up, like brake pads.
Posted By: moparx

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/25/14 02:29 AM

Quote:

My 06 3500 diesel smoked the trans at 40,000 miles, took out band and half the front clutches. Seems it was a pressure problem but it has a 5.0 lever( alot of servo movement not much band movement) and i adjust every 15,000 now, should have switched to a 3.9 also added GM valve on the valve body to help that pressure problem. I would say at 80,000 miles pulling a heavy load get a new trans ready, clutches and band just about used up, like brake pads.


please explain the "gm valve" mod.
Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/25/14 03:15 AM

We used to buy 2000ish Dodge trucks at the auctions with no second gear. As long as they hadn't driven it so long like that, that 3rd gear was hurt, I would just drop the pan and put the strut plate back in place, adjust the band and go.

I have run into a dozen or so like that over the years. Most had right around 100k.

Posted By: 71yelladustr

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/25/14 04:51 AM

Seen quite a few also with the band strut popped out. Most of them chip a piece of the cup portion that mates to the adjuster and need replaced. As for the "GM sensor mod", he is talking about replacing the junk factory governor pressure solenoid found in RE type transmissions with a larger less problematic solenoid similar to what is found in GM transmissions.
Posted By: Big Squeeze

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/27/14 05:55 AM

Quote:



It was standard practice to adjust all bands when we serviced a unit but 99% of the time they where never out enough to even show up.

I guess what I am trying to get at is I have adjusted probably 1000 bands on all kinds of different units over 27 years in the business and have rarely found one to be out of adjustment enough to make any difference in the way the unit worked.

If the unit was built correctly and adjusted correctly to begin with and it is functioning as it should I doubt you will see any difference after a band adjustment.

now if the band was never adjusted correctly to begin with when the unit was built or there is another problem than that is a different story.



FINALLY someone that gets it...I've had the EXACT same experience with band adjustments...Since the pan is off when changing the fluid and filter, just reach up and grab the lever and pull on it...Stevie Wonder will know if it's out of adjustment...


And Kunkel, the adjustment pin is threaded to make up for differences in band levers, drum diameters and band differences...pretty simple...

Quote:

We used to buy 2000ish Dodge trucks at the auctions with no second gear. As long as they hadn't driven it so long like that, that 3rd gear was hurt, I would just drop the pan and put the strut plate back in place, adjust the band and go.

I have run into a dozen or so like that over the years. Most had right around 100k.





I've experienced that too and IMHO it's caused by a shift timing problem on stock transmissions (which, obviously, the OP doesn't have)...I've done the same as you and also installed Trango shift kits at the same time and haven't had any comeback...I've even installed slip bands to fix them when they're burnt up...like you said, it only seems to happen on trucks within a year or two window so the factory must have fixed the problem...
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/27/14 09:27 PM

Quote:


And Kunkel, the adjustment pin is threaded to make up for differences in band levers, drum diameters and band differences...pretty simple...



Those differences could easily be accommodated with shim washers like the TH400 uses to set the band free play.

Again, too bad you weren't advising Mopar engineers back in the sixties, coulda saved them a heap of money in unneeded adjusting hardware.

The obvious reason they didn't is because the kickdown band is used on EVERY upshift unlike the TH400.

As to anecdotal experiences with band adjustments, review the number of times on these very forums that shift problems are traced to an out-of-adjustment band due by normal wear. I take notice of such things where others might not.
Posted By: zzyzxpat

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/28/14 12:32 AM

400 uses different size servo pins on the rear band, nothing on the front, all the same, no washers, at least from the factory.

For those that reinstall the front band strut because it fell out, all you are doing is costing the vehicles owner a front drum, when the band and drum go metal to metal, which if it is a 48RE is $$$$. The strut fell out because the band wore the lining out and developed excessive clearance, which is what Mr Kunkel is alluding to I think.

Much of this can be explained by the different band types sometimes. When Chrysler went to the AFM designed band, there is less friction material on the band as it has grooves in it, vs, the BW band which has lining on the entire band.

95% of normal units, the adjustment will never change over the service life, assuming everything else is OK.

HTH, Pat
Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/28/14 03:30 AM

Quote:

400 uses different size servo pins on the rear band, nothing on the front, all the same, no washers, at least from the factory.

For those that reinstall the front band strut because it fell out, all you are doing is costing the vehicles owner a front drum, when the band and drum go metal to metal, which if it is a 48RE is $$$$. The strut fell out because the band wore the lining out and developed excessive clearance, which is what Mr Kunkel is alluding to I think.

Much of this can be explained by the different band types sometimes. When Chrysler went to the AFM designed band, there is less friction material on the band as it has grooves in it, vs, the BW band which has lining on the entire band.

95% of normal units, the adjustment will never change over the service life, assuming everything else is OK.

HTH, Pat




Uh not true almost all of the 518's I have had come in with no 2nd the band anchor had broken out the top of the recess and fell into the pad and upon inspection the band looks like brand new with 0 wear.
and I am not talking 1 or 2 I am talking 10-15 a year so many I keep at least 5 of the anchors in stock at all times.
Posted By: zzyzxpat

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/28/14 08:55 PM

OK, must be different in Florida. LOL The struts break because of the angle of the strut when the band wears. I assume you are in the business as well, how many do you see come in with the band adjustment 5 or 6 turns out and the strut is still in place? Lining wear...
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/28/14 10:23 PM

Quote:

Seen quite a few also with the band strut popped out. Most of them chip a piece of the cup portion that mates to the adjuster and need replaced. As for the "GM sensor mod", he is talking about replacing the junk factory governor pressure solenoid found in RE type transmissions with a larger less problematic solenoid similar to what is found in GM transmissions.


Thanks for explaining the GM sensor for me,forgot about this post. Now the band, there is only so much travel in the front servo so the higher that lever(5.0)the less travel at the band so there is a small window of clamping force as the band wears, it has more leeway with a 2.9 over the 5.0(go back into an old service manual and see how often one has to adjust a hemi band with a 5.0 lever). If you drive a light vehicle with an egg under the pedal i guess it will last long but heavy truck with heavy load up mountains IT will wear out and need adjustments. Transmission repair is big business for a reason.
Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/28/14 10:57 PM

Quote:

OK, must be different in Florida. LOL The struts break because of the angle of the strut when the band wears. I assume you are in the business as well, how many do you see come in with the band adjustment 5 or 6 turns out and the strut is still in place? Lining wear...




yes spent 27 years building an average of 12-15 unit per week every week. and to answer your question almost never.
its not the strut that we see bent/broke its the anchor that breaks out the side where the adjusting bolt rides and when it blows out the side it falls out.
That's why they sell billet ones like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-727-518-61...255&vxp=mtr
and the band looks like new 99.9% of the time.
Posted By: zzyzxpat

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/29/14 01:53 AM

Well then, we are compadres 30 years @ 12-15 units a week, same employer.
My question would be, why did you never see this problem with 727s?
My answer would be band lining, the band gets loose, the strut cocks and breaks.
12-15 units a week, you are to be commended sir, not easy to do in this ever changing industry.

Pat
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/29/14 03:08 AM

Since you two guys have been in the business so long i respect your opinions and knowledge, so a question, do you think the thin bands are stretching or twisting unlike the old thick one? Maybe grabbing too hard too quick,kinda pulsating and breaking those anchors? Reason asking i'm thinking of putting the thick one back in the race trans.
Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/29/14 03:29 AM

Quote:

Since you two guys have been in the business so long i respect your opinions and knowledge, so a question, do you think the thin bands are stretching or twisting unlike the old thick one? Maybe grabbing too hard too quick,kinda pulsating and breaking those anchors? Reason asking i'm thinking of putting the thick one back in the race trans.



I always run the solid steel bands in any HP/heavy duty diesel application because of those reasons.
Posted By: zzyzxpat

Re: 518 transmission question - 09/29/14 04:21 AM

I would agree with a solid band in HP applications.

It is not a matter of thin or thick lining as much as how much lining is actually on the band, refer to my earlier post. Again, just my opinion.

Pat
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