500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results?

Posted By: cudaerik

500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/17/14 10:40 PM

Just got my new 500 cid low deck stroker engine of the dyno making 593HP and 610 ft-lbs of torque. I was expecting a bit more? Did I have an unrealistic goal hoping for 650HP based on the following compnents of all new parts?

71 block 0,40 over
440 Source stroker kit (4.150" stroke/6.760" rod)
CNC ported eddy heads, milled to 10,75:1 in Compression (Hughes Racing)
CNC ported eddy victor singel plane intake (Hughes Racing)
Holley 850 ultra carb.
1,6:1 roller rockers (Hughes Racing)
Huges Hydrualic Roller Camshaft (Hughes Racing)
Intake Valve Lift 1.6 .576"
Exhaust Valve Lift 1.6 .576"
Intake Duration at .050" 252�
Exhaust Duration at .050" 258�

Any thoughts on the set up and dyno results is much apriciated.

Posted By: B3422W5

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/17/14 10:50 PM

Not much camshaft for that big of motor. I suspect that is effecting the horsepower, both from a lift and duration standpoint. Don't know much a about hydraulic rollers.

Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/17/14 11:35 PM

I agree, those numbers aren't bad for that combo, more cam and more compression and 4.25" stroke vs 4.15" stroke would have helped too.

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/17/14 11:39 PM

I agree small cam for a big block.

Posted By: tex013

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/17/14 11:39 PM

definitely see a lack of lift especially with a CNC head that should happily flow to .600+ lift
how much more that will gain you is only a guess but some for sure

Tex

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/18/14 12:19 AM

More cam may cost you mid range torque, and depending on what your use is, might not be as good a combo. I like what you have.

Posted By: Sport440

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/18/14 12:21 AM

That's Very good for what it is. Mild comp and cam. If its for mostly street it will be a Great ride. If were to be street/strip I would of went with a cam around 262/265 intake @.050

600 hp and 620# torque is going to be a street monster. You probably wont be able to even use that much.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/18/14 12:36 AM

Thats 1.186 hp per cube.. thats not much.. as a rule
strokers EAT duration and the lift is lacking.. and
a 850 is a bit small on a big CI engine of that nature..
at what RPM do it make the peaks
EDIT
whats the use of this engine... and I assume
this was on pump gas

Posted By: viperblue72

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/18/14 01:21 AM

You have a great combination, just a pretty mild camshaft. And for your power goals I would not have went with a hydraulic roller.
But since you already have, maybe call Bryan at IMM. He has some pretty aggressive hydraulic roller profiles that make good power.

Posted By: wyoming

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/18/14 01:22 AM

Id agree with the others, about what I would expect also, cam, compression, I think it did pretty well, will make a heck of a street motor. More squeeze, bigger cam, Indy or Victor heads would have put you over your expectations.

Posted By: Sport440

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/18/14 02:30 AM

Quote:

Thats 1.186 hp per cube.. thats not much.. as a rule

That's inline for the mild comp and cam IMO. This is not a 15.1 280*@.050 cam race motor build.

My old mild setup had 1.19 hp per cube and ran 10.40,s on pump gas. Same comp and duration as the OP,s Just different cubes. His numbers are inline, IMO

Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/18/14 04:17 AM

Miniature cam and carb, with low static.

I'd say about 600hp and 600tq is a pretty good.

Posted By: 383man

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/18/14 04:25 AM

Thats not real far from my combo. I use a 440Source 4.15 crank and .030 over 440 block for 493 cubes and around 600 hp. I have 10.6 comp with quench so it runs fine on 92 pump. I have the basic EZ heads and a solid flat tappet cam at .585 & .592 lift with 264 & 270 @ .050 and with 1.6 Hughes rockers its about .630 lift. Also I use the Indy dual plane intake and a Holley 850 DP. Never dynoed but has pushed my 3700 lb 63 to 10.70's @ almost 125 so far through the full exh and on 92 pump. And I do drive it the 45 mile one way ride to the track. Ron

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/18/14 04:34 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Thats 1.186 hp per cube.. thats not much.. as a rule

That's inline for the mild comp and cam IMO. This is not a 15.1 280*@.050 cam race motor build.

My old mild setup had 1.19 hp per cube and ran 10.40,s on pump gas. Same comp and duration as the OP,s Just different cubes. His numbers are inline, IMO

He had higher expectations that what he got... just
saying why... and so far he hasnt said on what fuel
but I assume its 92 with that compression

Posted By: AndyF

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/18/14 05:53 AM

Those are good numbers for a pump gas street engine. If you thought you were building a race engine then you went way too small on the cam and the compression.

The 512 low deck in my '65 Coronet makes similar numbers. I use a hyd roller cam with 250 at 0.050 cam and 10:1 compression. I also have CNC ported Edelbrock heads and a Performer RPM intake with a 750 carb.

Posted By: cudaerik

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/18/14 07:09 AM

Hi Guys. Thanks a lot for grate feedback, this is the first stroker motor that i have build so I was just to find out if the parts that i have put together and the dyno results was way off. Sounds like i have done most right in my bulid with the tought to that this is a street motor on 95 pump gas. the motor goes back in my 70 cuda with a manual transmission this weekend.

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/18/14 01:14 PM

Quote:

Those are good numbers for a pump gas street engine. If you thought you were building a race engine then you went way too small on the cam and the compression.

The 512 low deck in my '65 Coronet makes similar numbers. I use a hyd roller cam with 250 at 0.050 cam and 10:1 compression. I also have CNC ported Edelbrock heads and a Performer RPM intake with a 750 carb.

The thought of trying the performer rpm intake on your motor crossed my mind. It may make the same or a bit less hp, but the midrange just might offset the loss of top end more than enough to go quicker, especially if you have a street/strip converter with less than optimum stall. Either way, that motor will put a smile on your face.

Posted By: ProSport

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/18/14 04:09 PM

Not bad at all for that combo, should be fun!

A 630 solid roller and 1000cfm 4150 carb would make a difference if you ever want to go that route.

I'm getting ready to fire up my new 500" Duster build, it has MW cnc Eddy's and an Indy single plane intake. I'm WAY undercammed with the solid 557 purpleshaft but I don't care cuz I built this car to cruise, and it won't even have enough tire or suspension to hold this much motor anyways.

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/18/14 04:38 PM

That's pretty close to my old Stage V 508 RB motor I built several years back, About 610hp/620 lb/ft would be about right for a std port (non MW)motor but with a very broad flat torque curve, I suspect the long runner Victor intake might not be the best fit and might be hurting the curve a little (but not much), I ran an extremely well-ported Street dominator on mine. I like a 1000HP Pro-systems carb on that combo, I think I have my old build sheet if it helps. The 850 will be a little small IMO.

I think your cam is about right for what you're doing, that same duration was awesome on the street in mine. A HR cam is going to limit your lift to ~.600 anyway, can't go much higher unless you switch to a solid and probably not worth it cause all the noticeable power gain will occur above the peak torque RPM....you'll never notice it 85% of the time.

you didn't mention your header size but you'll definitely need a 1 7/8" or 2" primary with a 3 1/2" collector, a 3" collector will lower your HP trajectory substantially vs a 3 1/2"

My old 508 motor is still kicking butt on the street, PM Paul PHJ426 he can tell you all about it.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/18/14 06:00 PM

Dyno tests results are dependent on many things like the lobe center on the cam, the actual weather conditions outside the dyno cell, the amount of tuning done on the dyno.

I've seen motors pick up 50 HP and similar torque on the dyno from tuning the carb, igntion and cam timing

I don't finish the final tune up now until the motor is in the car

BTW, less power in a stick car can be your friend, less tire spin

Posted By: dogdays

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/18/14 06:58 PM

Don't change a thing, horsepower is just a number. It'll be a beast in a manual transmission car.

R.

Posted By: AndyF

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/18/14 07:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Those are good numbers for a pump gas street engine. If you thought you were building a race engine then you went way too small on the cam and the compression.

The 512 low deck in my '65 Coronet makes similar numbers. I use a hyd roller cam with 250 at 0.050 cam and 10:1 compression. I also have CNC ported Edelbrock heads and a Performer RPM intake with a 750 carb.

The thought of trying the performer rpm intake on your motor crossed my mind. It may make the same or a bit less hp, but the midrange just might offset the loss of top end more than enough to go quicker, especially if you have a street/strip converter with less than optimum stall. Either way, that motor will put a smile on your face.

I've done a lot of A-B-A testing with dual plane and single plane intakes. The dual plane intakes are always better behaved on the street but they also always give up a small amount of top end power. On a real street car the dual plane is the way to go. On a marginal street car (steep gears, high stall converter, etc.) then maybe a person wants the extra power from the single plane. On the flip side, sometimes the stroker engines make so much torque that a person uses a single plane just to soften up the bottom end.

I'd never race a dual plane though. The cylinder to cylinder distribution issues are scary. Last time I ran an Indy DP on the dyno we lost a ton of power and the EGT's were all over the map. We shut the engine off to avoid any engine damage. The dyno operator and I looked at each other and swore "no more dual planes on race engines".

Posted By: 383man

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/18/14 10:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Those are good numbers for a pump gas street engine. If you thought you were building a race engine then you went way too small on the cam and the compression.

The 512 low deck in my '65 Coronet makes similar numbers. I use a hyd roller cam with 250 at 0.050 cam and 10:1 compression. I also have CNC ported Edelbrock heads and a Performer RPM intake with a 750 carb.

The thought of trying the performer rpm intake on your motor crossed my mind. It may make the same or a bit less hp, but the midrange just might offset the loss of top end more than enough to go quicker, especially if you have a street/strip converter with less than optimum stall. Either way, that motor will put a smile on your face.

I've done a lot of A-B-A testing with dual plane and single plane intakes. The dual plane intakes are always better behaved on the street but they also always give up a small amount of top end power. On a real street car the dual plane is the way to go. On a marginal street car (steep gears, high stall converter, etc.) then maybe a person wants the extra power from the single plane. On the flip side, sometimes the stroker engines make so much torque that a person uses a single plane just to soften up the bottom end.

I'd never race a dual plane though. The cylinder to cylinder distribution issues are scary. Last time I ran an Indy DP on the dyno we lost a ton of power and the EGT's were all over the map. We shut the engine off to avoid any engine damage. The dyno operator and I looked at each other and swore "no more dual planes on race engines".

Interesting info Andy. I do use the Indy dual plane but I would classify my 63 as a real 99% street car as I dive it alot and the last few years I am lucky to make the track once a year. I last went in Oct 2013 and hope to run at MIR on Oct 25th 2014. And I can honestly say I dont think I ever floor my 63 on the street as its not many places to even want to around my area and I dont need any tickets or trouble with the law. In fact the first time I raced my 63 at the track with the 493 I had to jet up as it was busting up over 5000 rpm and I did not know since it drove fine and I had never floored it on the street to even hit 5000 rpm.
I will say the driveability is great on the street with the dual plane but I want to try a single plane and see how the car likes it. I run 4.30's with a 30" tall tire and use a 9.5 Dynamic street/strip converter that flashes about 4200 at the track and drives around normal on the street. And my car weighs just over 3700 lbs. The other problem is my hood clearance as I believe the MP 337 intake is one of the only single planes that may fit under my hood as I wont change my hood or the scoop on the car. So I would love to try the single plane MP 337 intake and it would be nice to bolt a dominator on also. But cash is tight and I dont know when or if I will get to try a single plane. Course I need to see if my 3700 lb 4.30 geared 63 will like a single plane intake on the street. All I can say is when and if I get to try one if it goes faster I will get one to permanetly put on the car as I still like the old drag theory if it goes faster leave it on the car. Ron

Posted By: 440Jim

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/19/14 12:56 AM

Quote:

I agree, those numbers aren't bad for that combo,

I agree.

Posted By: gch

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/19/14 01:56 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Those are good numbers for a pump gas street engine. If you thought you were building a race engine then you went way too small on the cam and the compression.

The 512 low deck in my '65 Coronet makes similar numbers. I use a hyd roller cam with 250 at 0.050 cam and 10:1 compression. I also have CNC ported Edelbrock heads and a Performer RPM intake with a 750 carb.

The thought of trying the performer rpm intake on your motor crossed my mind. It may make the same or a bit less hp, but the midrange just might offset the loss of top end more than enough to go quicker, especially if you have a street/strip converter with less than optimum stall. Either way, that motor will put a smile on your face.

I've done a lot of A-B-A testing with dual plane and single plane intakes. The dual plane intakes are always better behaved on the street but they also always give up a small amount of top end power. On a real street car the dual plane is the way to go. On a marginal street car (steep gears, high stall converter, etc.) then maybe a person wants the extra power from the single plane. On the flip side, sometimes the stroker engines make so much torque that a person uses a single plane just to soften up the bottom end.

I'd never race a dual plane though. The cylinder to cylinder distribution issues are scary. Last time I ran an Indy DP on the dyno we lost a ton of power and the EGT's were all over the map. We shut the engine off to avoid any engine damage. The dyno operator and I looked at each other and swore "no more dual planes on race engines".

Interesting info Andy. I do use the Indy dual plane but I would classify my 63 as a real 99% street car as I dive it alot and the last few years I am lucky to make the track once a year. I last went in Oct 2013 and hope to run at MIR on Oct 25th 2014. And I can honestly say I dont think I ever floor my 63 on the street as its not many places to even want to around my area and I dont need any tickets or trouble with the law. In fact the first time I raced my 63 at the track with the 493 I had to jet up as it was busting up over 5000 rpm and I did not know since it drove fine and I had never floored it on the street to even hit 5000 rpm.
I will say the driveability is great on the street with the dual plane but I want to try a single plane and see how the car likes it. I run 4.30's with a 30" tall tire and use a 9.5 Dynamic street/strip converter that flashes about 4200 at the track and drives around normal on the street. And my car weighs just over 3700 lbs. The other problem is my hood clearance as I believe the MP 337 intake is one of the only single planes that may fit under my hood as I wont change my hood or the scoop on the car. So I would love to try the single plane MP 337 intake and it would be nice to bolt a dominator on also. But cash is tight and I dont know when or if I will get to try a single plane. Course I need to see if my 3700 lb 4.30 geared 63 will like a single plane intake on the street. All I can say is when and if I get to try one if it goes faster I will get one to permanetly put on the car as I still like the old drag theory if it goes faster leave it on the car. Ron

The street dominator would clear if you can open it up to MW ports.

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/19/14 05:11 PM

You can get an SD to about 3.25 Square inches (2.375 x 1.375) and maintain good taper to the plenum and it works really well. A standard MW port is (IIRC) 2.6" x 1.3" and a standard 906 is around 2.85 Sq in (I forget the exact dimensions but it's like 2.27 x 1.23...ish?) My SD plenum porting (only) was ~.15 better in ET and 1+ mph on a 493" in a 3700+ pound high 10 B body with Standard port E heads. In order to max out he runner the ports in the head need to be opened up a bit as well, but the key is the intake should not reduce the flow of the port, as many, most do...at least in the powerband/rpm range you're tuning to.

IMO, The issue with the SD and many other single planes is the consecutive cylinder firing between the 2-1 and 5-7 pulses where those runners happen to be adjacent. the 'first pig at the trough' (in this case the plenum) tends to steal a little from the second. Dual planes have other distribution issues, just not THAT particular issue.

I love a Ported SD on a 500", but a ported Indy Dual plane might be the way I'd go on that one, open up and radius those lower plenum to runner transitions, particularly # 7. I could see how there could be an A/F distribution problem with an As Cast 440-2d MW manifold...the uppers flow about 355-360 but the lowers only do about 320...again AS CAST.....so doesn't mean it's a bad manifold, just like a Victor 340 or a BBM SD, the potential from porting really is there...and it's well worth the effort to go get.

Posted By: 383man

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/19/14 10:37 PM

Quote:

You can get an SD to about 3.25 Square inches (2.375 x 1.375) and maintain good taper to the plenum and it works really well. A standard MW port is (IIRC) 2.6" x 1.3" and a standard 906 is around 2.85 Sq in (I forget the exact dimensions but it's like 2.27 x 1.23...ish?) My SD plenum porting (only) was ~.15 better in ET and 1+ mph on a 493" in a 3700+ pound high 10 B body with Standard port E heads. In order to max out he runner the ports in the head need to be opened up a bit as well, but the key is the intake should not reduce the flow of the port, as many, most do...at least in the powerband/rpm range you're tuning to.

IMO, The issue with the SD and many other single planes is the consecutive cylinder firing between the 2-1 and 5-7 pulses where those runners happen to be adjacent. the 'first pig at the trough' (in this case the plenum) tends to steal a little from the second. Dual planes have other distribution issues, just not THAT particular issue.

I love a Ported SD on a 500", but a ported Indy Dual plane might be the way I'd go on that one, open up and radius those lower plenum to runner transitions, particularly # 7. I could see how there could be an A/F distribution problem with an As Cast 440-2d MW manifold...the uppers flow about 355-360 but the lowers only do about 320...again AS CAST.....so doesn't mean it's a bad manifold, just like a Victor 340 or a BBM SD, the potential from porting really is there...and it's well worth the effort to go get.

As I was saying I do like the Indy dual plane and how well it drives on the street. I did buy it from Dwayne Porter and he did a little work on it for me. But I am an old racer who always likes to see how other parts may work. And I figure if I get the chance to try the 337 intake one day I might but believe me if it runs no faster or not enough to be worth my time the Indy dual plane will stay on. No matter what a dyno or a person says to me the dragstrip is still the only real test performance wise for me. I will say the Indy dual plane on my 63 now is a very nice friendly driving intake and may still be the intake that stays on it for good if I dont try one that gives better results at the track. And I hope to try a bigger carb also some day. I will admit though that my health with my knee and back problems has gotten worse so it may be some time before I get to try things I would like too. Ron

Posted By: BSB67

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/20/14 03:04 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I agree, those numbers aren't bad for that combo,

I agree.

Posted By: Mopar Guy

Re: 500cid low deck stroker fresh from dyno. Results? - 09/20/14 10:22 AM

Hi Erik,

You will have fun whit that beast in a Cuda

I run a 505 RB stroker whit a tad less dur but more lift in a Challenger and a 4 speed. Be carefull becas you can twist that body if you have to mutch tracktion