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Looking For a Good book On Gen 3

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/29/14 05:49 PM

I'm looking for a good book or 2 on the gen 3 engines
with all the specs and performance info and what parts
inter change on what and good info on the oiling
thanks
Posted By: b1dartsport

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/29/14 06:04 PM

Posted By: Dave_S

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/29/14 06:47 PM

This is handy. No real performance info though.

Attached File
Posted By: 340Cuda

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/30/14 12:12 AM

Great for the basic however, Thanks!
Bill
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/30/14 12:36 AM

There really isn't one Mike, torque specs are readily available and my ARP main studs and head bolts came with their own. 08 and earlier 5.7 and 6.1 stuff interchanges except the bolt pattern on the reluctor wheels. If you use Eagle or Apache heads you have to use their rockers, pushrods and valve covers because I THINK the stands are taller. I'm using a 4.05" crank in a 6.1 block and found out I had to grind for rod bolt clearance under #8 only AFTER I had the block prepped and cam bearings installed, so now I get to tank it, paint it and get cam bearings installed AGAIN. I'll take a pic when I get a chance.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/30/14 01:03 AM

Quote:

There really isn't one Mike, torque specs are readily available and my ARP main studs and head bolts came with their own. 08 and earlier 5.7 and 6.1 stuff interchanges except the bolt pattern on the reluctor wheels. If you use Eagle or Apache heads you have to use their rockers, pushrods and valve covers because I THINK the stands are taller. I'm using a 4.05" crank in a 6.1 block and found out I had to grind for rod bolt clearance under #8 only AFTER I had the block prepped and cam bearings installed, so now I get to tank it, paint it and get cam bearings installed AGAIN. I'll take a pic when I get a chance.




Yeah, been trying to google books on the gen 3 with
nothing popping up.. you would think there would be
based on the years its been out there... are you using
the piston oiliers... if I were to use a 6.1 crank
in a 05 5.7 I assume I have to use the 6.1 ring..
and yes I'm thinking about the Apache heads.. thanks
for the info
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/30/14 01:17 AM

Yes I am retaining the oil jets after some mods to them and the pistons.

Attached picture 8255289-IMAG0190.jpg
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/30/14 01:19 AM

Small notch in skirts.

Attached picture 8255291-IMAG0224.jpg
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/30/14 01:33 AM

What do you figure you can bore these engines out and
still be strong... I'm gonna turbo this with either
a single or a twin.. gotta look at what I can package..
plus are the cams ground by most companies
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/30/14 03:51 AM

I'm kinda from the train of thought "bore only as needed" although I have not seen a split cylinder wall. You can get good pistons in .010 over increments and my block got clean with a .010 over at 4.065. I havent seen anyone go past .030-.035 over without sleeves though either.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/30/14 04:15 AM

Quote:

I'm kinda from the train of thought "bore only as needed" although I have not seen a split cylinder wall. You can get good pistons in .010 over increments and my block got clean with a .010 over at 4.065. I havent seen anyone go past .030-.035 over without sleeves though either.




I'm looking at a 05 5.7 thats a running engine so I
would think .010 will clean it up... so there isnt
any problem with running a 6.1 crank in a 5.7 and
using the 6.1 wheel... how about rods.. I will want
something better than a powered rod.. what length
would that end up being
thanks for the help
Posted By: SRT6776

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/30/14 04:23 AM

Challengertalk.com drag forum is pretty good for info, as is LXforums.com in their racing sections. The "book" is how good you can use Google to search for whatever info it is that you need, but those are two good places to start.

http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f18/

http://www.lxforums.com/board/forumdisplay.php/50-The-Garage
Posted By: Dave_S

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/30/14 04:26 AM

I have a 6.1 crank in a 5.7 block. You must use the tone wheel that came with the crank. A 6.1 tone wheel wont fit a 5.7 crank.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/30/14 04:36 AM

Quote:

I have a 6.1 crank in a 5.7 block. You must use the tone wheel that came with the crank. A 6.1 tone wheel wont fit a 5.7 crank.




That part I read... being that they dont fit one
another.. but it all clears everything .. correct..
what rods did you use
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/30/14 04:42 AM

5.7 and 6.1 are same stroke, so you would gain a forged crank using the 6.1 and its wheel. The rod lengths are the same as well. You can get rods in stock length, 6.242 IIRC, from a few different vendors like Molnar,K1 and Callies. Pay close attention because 99% of them use a .927 SBC pin instead of the stock .984. You can also get them in Chevy journal sizes like 2.0" which is what is going in mine,im not 100% sure but I think stock is 2.10 or 2.125. You can price a few things from these guys http://www.flatlanderracing.com/
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/30/14 05:04 AM

Quote:

5.7 and 6.1 are same stroke, so you would gain a forged crank using the 6.1 and its wheel. The rod lengths are the same as well. You can get rods in stock length, 6.242 IIRC, from a few different vendors like Molnar,K1 and Callies. Pay close attention because 99% of them use a .927 SBC pin instead of the stock .984. You can also get them in Chevy journal sizes like 2.0" which is what is going in mine,im not 100% sure but I think stock is 2.10 or 2.125. You can price a few things from these guys http://www.flatlanderracing.com/




Thanks... wasnt sure if they were the same stroke
Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/30/14 02:28 PM

Best sources out there:
http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php/24486-New-Service-Manual-Download-Link

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/wp-content/uploads/46568ChryslerHe_00000019776.pdf

If I need a Hemi specific engine question answered, I search on google including the text:
site:lxforums.com
Whether it is pushrod length, lifter travel, which tone wheel for aftermarket cranks, etc, I'm able to find the answer.

Also- useful swap info can be found on the FABO 3G Hemi swap forum. You have to dig a little though.

I had a 6.1 crank in a 5.7. Use the 6.1 tone wheel. It fits plenty fine.

I'm a fan of K1 rods and Wiseco pistons for the new gen Hemi's. That's what I run.

IMO, you should copy Matt's turbo build for the long block. 6.1 crank, k1 rods, Wiseco pistons, eagle heads, and upgraded spring. Use main studs (get block honed for them), and you'll be GTG for ~1,000 hp or so.

FYI- stock head gaskets and stock head bolts have held up to ~20 psi on Hemi-C's YSI Magnum (a few build revisions ago). Much beyond 18-20 psi things can get expensive.

5.7 cylinder walls are thicker than 6.1's. You need to measure wall thickness if you want to go more than .020 on a 6.1, and I would suggest it for more than .030 (or so) on a 5.7. I've read somewhere a 5.7 bore can be bored like .080 before reaching the same cylinder wall thickness that comes on a 6.1. Some 6.1's can't take a bore , but I also know of a couple running a 4.100 (.045 over) bore.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/30/14 02:36 PM

Thanks for the info
Posted By: 1badx

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/30/14 03:14 PM

The 5.7 (non-VVT) blocks are a good choice. Just be sure to sonic test the bores. It took me 3 blocks to find one I felt was acceptable. There was obviously quite a bit core shift when these were made.

As far as boost limits on stock head bolts and gaskets - we've taken a completely stock 6.1 engine to 28psi with no sign of head lifting. This doesn't mean I'd build a purpose built engine with this configuration - just relaying the strength of the stock setup. Go with head studs and Cometics.

Modern Mopar Forum is a good place for full tilt Gen III Hemi info if you don't mind the drama.

Here's a link to a thread on pushing a stock 6.1 to the limits:
http://modernmoparforum.com/topic/12184-...e-photos-added/
Posted By: RMCHRGR

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/30/14 03:14 PM

Not a book but you might want to consider getting the pushrod alignment tool since you can't really assemble the valvetrain correctly without it. We had them at the dealer, it was a Miller tool.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/30/14 03:56 PM

Quote:

The 5.7 (non-VVT) blocks are a good choice. Just be sure to sonic test the bores. It took me 3 blocks to find one I felt was acceptable. There was obviously quite a bit core shift when these were made.

As far as boost limits on stock head bolts and gaskets - we've taken a completely stock 6.1 engine to 28psi with no sign of head lifting. This doesn't mean I'd build a purpose built engine with this configuration - just relaying the strength of the stock setup. Go with head studs and Cometics.

Modern Mopar Forum is a good place for full tilt Gen III Hemi info if you don't mind the drama.

Here's a link to a thread on pushing a stock 6.1 to the limits:
http://modernmoparforum.com/topic/12184-...e-photos-added/





What I'm looking to build wont use much boost.. maybe
15-20 psi max.. it'll be a stand alone injected with
either a single or twins with intercoolers.. just
a street/strip ride that will only run 10.0 in a
2900# Rampage... I'll most likely get the engine in
and running then mock up for the turbo/s and see what
will fit... nothing fancy for power
Posted By: 1badx

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/30/14 05:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The 5.7 (non-VVT) blocks are a good choice. Just be sure to sonic test the bores. It took me 3 blocks to find one I felt was acceptable. There was obviously quite a bit core shift when these were made.

As far as boost limits on stock head bolts and gaskets - we've taken a completely stock 6.1 engine to 28psi with no sign of head lifting. This doesn't mean I'd build a purpose built engine with this configuration - just relaying the strength of the stock setup. Go with head studs and Cometics.

Modern Mopar Forum is a good place for full tilt Gen III Hemi info if you don't mind the drama.

Here's a link to a thread on pushing a stock 6.1 to the limits:
http://modernmoparforum.com/topic/12184-...e-photos-added/





What I'm looking to build wont use much boost.. maybe
15-20 psi max.. it'll be a stand alone injected with
either a single or twins with intercoolers.. just
a street/strip ride that will only run 10.0 in a
2900# Rampage... I'll most likely get the engine in
and running then mock up for the turbo/s and see what
will fit... nothing fancy for power





You wont need boost to run 10.0 at that weight with a Gen III Hemi. We have a customer with a 3700 pound 4 door, 7L running 10.30 NA. There's several others out there doing the same or close and many daily drivers weighing 4200#'s running high 10's NA.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 08/30/14 06:46 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The 5.7 (non-VVT) blocks are a good choice. Just be sure to sonic test the bores. It took me 3 blocks to find one I felt was acceptable. There was obviously quite a bit core shift when these were made.

As far as boost limits on stock head bolts and gaskets - we've taken a completely stock 6.1 engine to 28psi with no sign of head lifting. This doesn't mean I'd build a purpose built engine with this configuration - just relaying the strength of the stock setup. Go with head studs and Cometics.

Modern Mopar Forum is a good place for full tilt Gen III Hemi info if you don't mind the drama.

Here's a link to a thread on pushing a stock 6.1 to the limits:
http://modernmoparforum.com/topic/12184-...e-photos-added/





What I'm looking to build wont use much boost.. maybe
15-20 psi max.. it'll be a stand alone injected with
either a single or twins with intercoolers.. just
a street/strip ride that will only run 10.0 in a
2900# Rampage... I'll most likely get the engine in
and running then mock up for the turbo/s and see what
will fit... nothing fancy for power





You wont need boost to run 10.0 at that weight with a Gen III Hemi. We have a customer with a 3700 pound 4 door, 7L running 10.30 NA. There's several others out there doing the same or close and many daily drivers weighing 4200#'s running high 10's NA.




Yeah I know but when I can get to a few tracks I
want to turn it up to see hat it can run.. mainly
the turbo will be for looks and some fun... plus I
want to run on 87 octane for the street and some 93
at the track... it wont run much boost.. MOST of the time
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 09/01/14 08:36 PM

Here is the pic of the notch in the oil drain crossover under #8 to clear the bolt head of the #7 rod cap when using a 4.05-4.08" stroke.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 09/01/14 08:40 PM

Thats good... doesnt look like much at all.. I assume
thats a good distance from water
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 09/01/14 08:55 PM

Yes it is. Its just an oil tunnel that merges the rear oil drainback at the rear of #8 to the drainback between #6 and #8. Even if you went through, it would just drainback at the breach instead of through the 6-8 drainback.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Looking For a Good book On Gen 3 - 09/01/14 08:58 PM

Quote:

Yes it is. Its just an oil tunnel that merges the rear oil drainback at the rear of #8 to the drainback between #6 and #8. Even if you went through, it would just drainback at the breach instead of through the 6-8 drainback.




thanks
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