opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci)

Posted By: 340KID

opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/27/14 10:26 PM

came across this engine that we are considering to put in a 73 Scamp drag car
motor was built somewhat to nascar specs.
340 R3 48 degree block - 358 cubic inch
Bryant crank 3.30 stroke
carillo rods 6.25"
diamond 4.155 flat tops -
crane solid roller - duration 266/270 @ .05, lift 726/610
Jesel pro series rockers 1.65 int 1.5 exh
12 to 1 compression
dry sump oil system
w8 heads 2.18 int, 1.625 exh, nextek springs, titanium retainers etc
w8 MP intake
crank trigger / MSD distributor
dyno sheets show max torque 523 at 5800 rpm,
max HP 685 at 7500 rpm

would this be ideal in the Scamp ?

Attached File

8253267-dyno-1.pdf (356 downloads)

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/27/14 10:32 PM

Depending on the weight of the car but sounds like
you would want more RPM out of it but the duration
is a bit short... if foot braking it should be fine..
has nice torque and HP for the cubes

Posted By: SpareParts

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/27/14 11:42 PM

Should be fun.

Anybody know what the specs were on a nastruck cam? Like an Arrington motor

Posted By: W5DART66

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/28/14 01:01 AM

Most had RX RZ lobes 105-108 LSA .440ish lobe 276-282 intake and 280-286 ex lobe. Was real popular. For the w8 truck engines.

Posted By: 340KID

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/28/14 04:19 AM

Cam is cut at 108, heads flow 348 intake and 247 exhaust
Intake port volume at 270 + , just wondering if it will be a nice bracket motor in a Scamp, motor is brand spankin new !!

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/28/14 04:22 AM

Quote:

Cam is cut at 108, heads flow 348 intake and 247 exhaust
Intake port volume at 270 + , just wondering if it will be a nice bracket motor in a Scamp, motor is brand spankin new !!

Should be... those are not max ported heads by any means
but should work well with the combo

Posted By: 340KID

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/28/14 04:28 AM

My biggest concern would be headers and dry pump location, does anyone make W8 2" headers or bigger that will work with a stock K-frame, motor already has dry pump, pulleys etc just need reservoir, pump is located just under number 1 cylinder

Posted By: 340KID

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/28/14 04:43 AM

Our goal is to be a low 10 second car, the project is a 73 scamp with a 71 full fiberglass front clip, hood, fenders, bumber, it has a 8 pt cage, interior seats front/rear removed. 727 tranny with 9" dynamic 4500+ converter, 8.75 rear with 742 case, 5.13 rear (I think) with spool and 29.5 x10.5 slicks , don't know weight but I'm thinking around 2900-3000 ?? Learning more about it every day, lol

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/28/14 04:47 AM

Quote:

My biggest concern would be headers and dry pump location, does anyone make W8 2" headers or bigger that will work with a stock K-frame, motor already has dry pump, pulleys etc just need reservoir, pump is located just under number 1 cylinder

Your on your own with headers... also 1 7/8 should be
large enough for that

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/28/14 05:02 AM

Quote:

Our goal is to be a low 10 second car, the project is a 73 scamp with a 71 full fiberglass front clip, hood, fenders, bumber, it has a 8 pt cage, interior seats front/rear removed. 727 tranny with 9" dynamic 4500+ converter, 8.75 rear with 742 case, 5.13 rear (I think) with spool and 29.5 x10.5 slicks , don't know weight but I'm thinking around 2900-3000 ?? Learning more about it every day, lol

You need more conv.. stall should be just above the
max torque rpm.. check the formula for the gear..
5.13 might be a bit much(4.88 would be more like it)

Posted By: tubtar

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/28/14 05:02 AM

Quote:

does anyone make W8 2" headers or bigger that will work with a stock K-frame

Yeah.
Here are your choices.
Get ready to shell out a couple thousand to have a quality set made......I doubt 2 " will work , but I'm certainly not the last word on this.
Or get an A body set either semi welded and add your own flanges or completed and cut their flanges off.
SPD has the flanges and there are a couple different W-8 versions that I am aware of so make sure you get the right ones to start with.
http://spdexhaust.com/
For my deal , I went through SPD for the flanges and got a set of un-welded later A body 1 7/8" headers from Stahl.
Then married the two up for my '65.
Stahl does not make headers anymore , but they may still have some inventory laying around , so I would call them and see.
It took some of the guess work out of it for me.
But I have an AlterKtion in there and it was still a fair bit of work.
Shelf stuff is very rare for these deals.

Posted By: 340KID

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/28/14 05:24 AM

Someone mentioned cooper headers ?? Anyone know about them ?

Posted By: mafo

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/28/14 08:15 AM

If you have the stock steering box, you probably run into trouble with the oil pump, but it will be worth the effort to get it in

Posted By: actionange

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/28/14 11:52 AM

Using the KISS philosophy- "keep it simple stupid" (no disrespect towards you)- a bracket car should be just that.
With dry sump and custom headers it might not be.
That power plant will definitely get you to 10 flat with that car weight.
In fact you might have to slow it down...
Use non exotic parts that are readily available and can be found/ fixed/ tuned easily for success.
Just my

See ya at the track.

Posted By: Leon441

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/28/14 12:53 PM

The exhaust ports are higher and a different pattern than W2. You may be able to cut flanges and replace with W9. 1 7/8" is fine for 358.

If you are capable of doing the drysump,fine. If not it is possible to convert to internal pump. This depending on the rear cap you may have to swap and re line bore which is costly. Another option is a wet pan with a single stage external pump. With stock k member and steering box it will be very difficult to use the dry sump.

Posted By: mcduff

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/29/14 03:55 AM

Good Info & advise above.........
Nice combo, plenty of HP & Torque to put you in the 10.0, upper 9s bracket range. Weight will be in the 3050 - 3100lb range + driver. Like Actionange said keep it simple. You want low maintenance and consistancy with any choice you make for a bracket motor...from what I have seen...W8s and their high RPM operating requirements tend to be on the more expensive side to maintain.
I would recommend that you give Ryan Johnson at Shady Dell a call...One of the best guys out there when it comes to SB Mopars.

Attached picture 8254520-ATCODART3001(800x611).jpg

Posted By: charger410

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/29/14 05:30 AM

It will fit with the Dry sump pump but it'll be murder

Attached picture 8254619-11.jpg

Posted By: charger410

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/29/14 05:36 AM

sump

Posted By: charger410

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/29/14 05:42 AM

Your headers will be the hardest part with the Factory K member and torsion bars

Attached picture 8254633-14.jpg

Posted By: 340KID

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/29/14 03:31 PM

thanks for the info guys, I'm thinking it just wont be practical to try to fit it in the Scamp between headers and dry sump !

Posted By: SpareParts

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/29/14 05:10 PM

Booooooo

Posted By: mafo

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/29/14 05:12 PM

I did not know that practical had anything to do with race cars

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/29/14 05:20 PM

Quote:

thanks for the info guys, I'm thinking it just wont be practical to try to fit it in the Scamp between headers and dry sump !

IF you are getting the engine at a decent price I sure
would use it.. I'd rework the K member to allow it to
fit(or get rid of the K member and go struts).. I've
been running a dry sump on my bracket car for years
with zero issues and that engine has the good parts
so you wont need to do much at all... thats a low
RPM engine for what it is

Posted By: actionange

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/29/14 11:16 PM

Quote:

thanks for the info guys, I'm thinking it just wont be practical to try to fit it in the Scamp between headers and dry sump !

Just spoke to a friend of mine with a 65 Valiant today.
Stock stroke, sixty over 340. Running Air Wolf heads, with 273 rockers (stock no offset), .560 lift solid lifter cam (not a roller), Edelbrock manifold with a 750 Holley carb, 4.10 gear 8 3/4 rear with 26x8 slicks. Ran new best of 10.50@122 mph.
Nothing really exotic...
Figures it will go 10.30 in the "good air" coming up in the fall.

Posted By: B3422W5

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/29/14 11:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

thanks for the info guys, I'm thinking it just wont be practical to try to fit it in the Scamp between headers and dry sump !

Just spoke to a friend of mine with a 65 Valiant today.
Stock stroke, sixty over 340. Running Air Wolf heads, with 273 rockers (stock no offset), .560 lift solid lifter cam (not a roller), Edelbrock manifold with a 750 Holley carb, 4.10 gear 8 3/4 rear with 26x8 slicks. Ran new best of [Email]10.50@122[/Email] mph.
Nothing really exotic...
Figures it will go 10.30 in the "good air" coming up in the fall.

What's the car weigh?

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/30/14 12:36 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

thanks for the info guys, I'm thinking it just wont be practical to try to fit it in the Scamp between headers and dry sump !

Just spoke to a friend of mine with a 65 Valiant today.
Stock stroke, sixty over 340. Running Air Wolf heads, with 273 rockers (stock no offset), .560 lift solid lifter cam (not a roller), Edelbrock manifold with a 750 Holley carb, 4.10 gear 8 3/4 rear with 26x8 slicks. Ran new best of [Email]10.50@122[/Email] mph.
Nothing really exotic...
Figures it will go 10.30 in the "good air" coming up in the fall.

What's the car weigh?

What track?

Posted By: tubtar

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/30/14 01:50 AM

Quote:

I did not know that practical had anything to do with race cars

You cannot discount the value of conquering a good challenge.

If the price is right , I'd find a way to make it work.
Heck , if the price is right , it would be worth buying just to have for future reference.

Posted By: tubtar

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/30/14 01:53 AM

Something else to consider....a lot of those roundy round motors were lightened and don't have motor mounts either.....so you'd be looking at a plate , which gives you a wee bit more room too.

Posted By: 340KID

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/30/14 03:36 AM

Yes , I just found out it does not have ears, it's a great motor but just not what I want to get involved with, I'm thinking about a 360 stroked to 426 with the Hughes kit based on 360 platform, parts are readily available and I'm more comfortable wrenching on. Plus the availability of headers etc..

Posted By: SpareParts

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/30/14 07:01 AM

What's the price of this motor?

Posted By: actionange

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/30/14 02:42 PM

Quote:

Yes , I just found out it does not have ears, it's a great motor but just not what I want to get involved with, I'm thinking about a 360 stroked to 426 with the Hughes kit based on 360 platform, parts are readily available and I'm more comfortable wrenching on. Plus the availability of headers etc..

Now I like the way you're thinking!

Posted By: actionange

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/30/14 02:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

thanks for the info guys, I'm thinking it just wont be practical to try to fit it in the Scamp between headers and dry sump !

Just spoke to a friend of mine with a 65 Valiant today.
Stock stroke, sixty over 340. Running Air Wolf heads, with 273 rockers (stock no offset), .560 lift solid lifter cam (not a roller), Edelbrock manifold with a 750 Holley carb, 4.10 gear 8 3/4 rear with 26x8 slicks. Ran new best of [Email]10.50@122[/Email] mph.
Nothing really exotic...
Figures it will go 10.30 in the "good air" coming up in the fall.

Race ready weight with driver is 2850. Car was originally a J/SA now turned bracket racer, so it is not a gutted aluminum interior, etc piece.

These numbers were recorded at Atco in NJ.

What's the car weigh?

What track?

Posted By: J_BODY

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/30/14 08:10 PM

Quote:

What's the price of this motor?

Posted By: SpareParts

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/30/14 10:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What's the price of this motor?

You can get one for around 7-8k

Really not that bad

Posted By: J_BODY

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/30/14 10:18 PM

....not mine!!

1/2 way through my build I met up with a guy 45 miles south of me that ran a Dakota in dry lake bed races that switched to 4BT Cummins.... prior to that it was W8 small blocks. He had one used one for $3500 (complete, just add carb) and a freshened one off the dyno for $7500, once again, complete, just add carb. Both were dry sump. I understand the "used" engine sold, but the one he had freshened is still there.

Posted By: tubtar

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/30/14 11:33 PM

Quote:

....not mine!!

1/2 way through my build I met up with a guy 45 miles south of me that ran a Dakota in dry lake bed races that switched to 4BT Cummins.... prior to that it was W8 small blocks. He had one used one for $3500 (complete, just add carb) and a freshened one off the dyno for $7500, once again, complete, just add carb. Both were dry sump. I understand the "used" engine sold, but the one he had freshened is still there.

Really a bargain when you get right down to it.
My wet sump W-9 headed deal has set me back a good bit more than 8k.
The incidentals really run up on these though......hooking up cooling , headers .......O.K. , I could have gotten by with a conventional distributor and timing chain and saved a couple G's. Maybe.
But they really deserve the show and tell factor of a belt driven cam and front mount distributor.
I'll never squeeze mine tight enough for these pieces to pay off , but they sure look pretty !

Even getting one for seven grand , you can expect to throw another couple grand at it to get it in and working I bet.
And that is with getting your hands dirty.

Posted By: 340KID

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/31/14 05:28 AM

This motor is $13k with no carb !!

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/31/14 06:10 AM

Quote:

This motor is $13k with no carb !!

Thats about what I had in my W-9... hell I had $3500
in the dry sump with all the hoses and fittings..
plus I had a billet crank in it with CP pistons and
the 50mm cam.. and I built the headers

Posted By: littleVAL

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/31/14 07:25 AM

Wow for $3500 that would be a deal just swap the rotating assembly for as much stroke as possible in that low deck block.

Posted By: SpareParts

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/31/14 11:06 AM

Quote:

....not mine!!

1/2 way through my build I met up with a guy 45 miles south of me that ran a Dakota in dry lake bed races that switched to 4BT Cummins.... prior to that it was W8 small blocks. He had one used one for $3500 (complete, just add carb) and a freshened one off the dyno for $7500, once again, complete, just add carb. Both were dry sump. I understand the "used" engine sold, but the one he had freshened is still there.

Yours is a pretty big motor and I know you have $$ in the heads (I have W9's done by the same fella) but you made something like 760 IIRC at 436" (?) that's nothing to laugh at by any means but a lot of these small cube high rpm W8 motors make around 2hp/ CI in my opinion that is quite an impressive task. 364" 9:1 made 733. I do however wonder what the dry sump is worth on the time slip.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/31/14 02:52 PM

The dry sump does make more power.. its been proven
on the dynos.. it has a larger effect on larger engines
but I cant say what the time slip would say.. due
to the chassis set up... the vac part of the pump is
a big factor, as is the no oil in the pan(very little)

Posted By: J_BODY

Re: opinion on 340 R3/w8 (358ci) - 08/31/14 04:24 PM

Quote:

Wow for $3500 that would be a deal just swap the rotating assembly for as much stroke as possible in that low deck block.

I know..... I just had too much on my plate finishing my car to buy it. For that money the dry sump would have cost that much.