B 400 solid roller

Posted By: robnbird

B 400 solid roller - 07/31/14 03:25 AM

I would like you opinion on a roller . or what is your set up with a 400 ? I have a 68 RR 3200lb Dana 60 4.88 , 4 link , coil over front . 727 5000 stall ...

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: B 400 solid roller - 07/31/14 01:46 PM

I will just offer some of my results.
499 B motor, 12.9/1 compression, 440-1 heads bowl porting only, Alky injected went 9.34 @ 143 mph with a 283/290/110 UltraDyne cam with about .717 lift. Torqueflite, 3,000 lbs.

4.15 stroke 4.500 bore Megablock motor,440-1 fully ported, alky injected 3,050 lbs went 8.77 at 153 mph with the Isky RR735 cam, 280/288/110 duration, in at 110 using 1.55 rockers for .761 lift.
Comp custom grind put into the 528, 283/296/112, .775 lift in at 110, very little if any gain, no change in power band.
If I were building your motor, it would get all the compression I could build into it for the fuel you plan to use. If your compression comes in at 13/1 or less, I would stick with a cam that is a bit shorter on duration (max intake duration 272 to 280 at .050) but plenty of lift.
Secondly, max port the heads before spending money else where. I have seen 499 motors that went about as fast with ported heads and a solid flat tappet as I have run with a roller and unported heads.

Posted By: robnbird

Re: B 400 solid roller - 07/31/14 03:47 PM

those are some good results Greg and thanks . I was thinking of about 650 lift and about 290ish duration . MP has one that is 300 duration and 625 , and another that is like 297 and 660 . thanks again

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: B 400 solid roller - 07/31/14 05:07 PM

What's been done to the engine itself??

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: B 400 solid roller - 07/31/14 05:08 PM

I was thinking you were staying at 400 cubes if not heres my Isky solid roller;

.680-.660 lift
.275-280 @ .050
108 lsa installed around 104-105 and 97 degrees overlap

VERY spunky and streetable @ 470 cubes...............

Posted By: Sport440

Re: B 400 solid roller - 07/31/14 05:33 PM

Quote:

those are some good results Greg and thanks . I was thinking of about 650 lift and about 290ish duration . MP has one that is 300 duration and 625 , and another that is like 297 and 660 . thanks again

For your goals of 6.0 in the 1/8 499 ci and 3200# thats Way more duration then you Want or need. You could get it done with a roller around 268 to 275 / .650 lift. 290 to 297 In.

no need.

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: B 400 solid roller - 07/31/14 08:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

those are some good results Greg and thanks . I was thinking of about 650 lift and about 290ish duration . MP has one that is 300 duration and 625 , and another that is like 297 and 660 . thanks again

For your goals of 6.0 in the 1/8 499 ci and 3200# thats Way more duration then you Want or need. You could get it done with a roller around 268 to 275 / .650 lift. 290 to 297 In. no need.

Are we all talking duration at .050 tappet lift?

Posted By: Sport440

Re: B 400 solid roller - 07/31/14 08:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

those are some good results Greg and thanks . I was thinking of about 650 lift and about 290ish duration . MP has one that is 300 duration and 625 , and another that is like 297 and 660 . thanks again

For your goals of 6.0 in the 1/8 499 ci and 3200# thats Way more duration then you Want or need. You could get it done with a roller around 268 to 275 / .650 lift. 290 to 297 In. no need.

Are we all talking duration at .050 tappet lift?

Yes, That crossed my mine, but that 297/660 lift cam has to be @ .050 The MP 509 advertised is 292/509 The cams hes referring to cant be the advertised duration IMO

Im speaking @ .050 and I know you are too. I hope he knows the difference also. But , looks like he referencing them @ .050 too.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: B 400 solid roller - 07/31/14 08:56 PM

Quote:

I would like you opinion on a roller . or what is your set up with a 400 ? I have a 68 RR 3200lb Dana 60 4.88 , 4 link , coil over front . 727 5000 stall ...

As already mentioned, we need more information on your parts before offering a cam design suggestion

Which heads,intake and carb. size, which fuel, intended or desired RPM shift point and so on

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: B 400 solid roller - 07/31/14 09:20 PM

Cant offer a cam choice without at least head info
such as flow at what lift.. otherwise its a guess..
but the max RPM you want to turn also, fuel

Posted By: robnbird

Re: B 400 solid roller - 07/31/14 10:03 PM

I am just now starting on the motor .. I ordered a 4.150 rotating kit with 6.760 rods and 1.120 CH pistons 4.375 bore ... 3200 lb car with 4link , 4.88 coil over front . 727 5000 stall . edelbrock victor max heads .. undecided on a intake and camshaft . So I am all ears

Posted By: robnbird

Re: B 400 solid roller - 07/31/14 10:05 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

those are some good results Greg and thanks . I was thinking of about 650 lift and about 290ish duration . MP has one that is 300 duration and 625 , and another that is like 297 and 660 . thanks again

For your goals of 6.0 in the 1/8 499 ci and 3200# thats Way more duration then you Want or need. You could get it done with a roller around 268 to 275 / .650 lift. 290 to 297 In. no need.

Are we all talking duration at .050 tappet lift?

yes at .050

Posted By: robnbird

Re: B 400 solid roller - 07/31/14 10:07 PM

Thanks Mr P I just got back and I just posted my info . except the carb and probably a 1050 dom to start with .

Posted By: robnbird

Re: B 400 solid roller - 07/31/14 10:09 PM

Quote:

I am just now starting on the motor .. I ordered a 4.150 rotating kit with 6.760 rods and 1.120 CH pistons 4.375 bore ... 3200 lb car with 4link , 4.88 coil over front . 727 5000 stall . edelbrock victor max heads .. undecided on a intake and camshaft . So I am all ears

A DH around 9.970 .. compression close to 12.7 is my calculation

Posted By: robnbird

Re: B 400 solid roller - 07/31/14 10:15 PM

Greg thanks .. What would your numbers be for a 650 to a 670 lift .

Posted By: tboomer

Re: B 400 solid roller - 07/31/14 10:17 PM

Gonna port those heads?

Posted By: robnbird

Re: B 400 solid roller - 07/31/14 10:27 PM

yes I will have them ported but edelbrock doesn't off much of an intake for these heads . I called and they sadi they did not have enough demand .. so I guess a indy 400-3 .

Posted By: tboomer

Re: B 400 solid roller - 07/31/14 10:41 PM

My RB has an Indy 440-2. Works pretty good!

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: B 400 solid roller - 07/31/14 11:40 PM

Quote:

Greg thanks .. What would your numbers be for a 650 to a 670 lift .

If you are asking what duration for those lift numbers, you can have about any duration you want. Comp cams offers .440 lobes, which have .660 gross lift with 1.5 rockers in durations of from 250 to 290 at .050. They have many other series of lobes, with lobe lifts of .460, .470. .484, etc. A .460 lift cam lobe would be .690, minus lash of say .026, for a net lift of .664
When calculating max lift, you subtract the valve lash from the gross lift. Lets say you have .700 lift, running .026 lash. Net lift will be .674, and actually maybe .010 less due to compression of all the valvetrain parts under load. But lets use a .700 gross lift as a starting point. With a max of .674 net lift, you need to add .070 for a safety margin to spring coil bind. That gives you .744 to add to the spring coil bind height to figure out the shortest possible installed height. If your springs have a coil bind height of 1.130, then add 1.130 to .744 and your shortest installed height is 1.864 There isn't a head made for BB mopars that won't go higher on installed height, so I am not sure why you want to limit the total lift. A gross lift of .700 will actually only reach about .670 as said before, and most heads will keep on flowing above that. Good springs and the right rate of lift on the lobes is as or more important than total valve lift up to a point. .700 to .740 gross lift can be set up to be very reliable and go many rounds without needing maintenance like spring changes and rebuilt lifters.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: B 400 solid roller - 07/31/14 11:46 PM

Quote:

Thanks Mr P I just got back and I just posted my info . except the carb and probably a 1050 dom to start with .

Sorry I dont see where the head flow stuff is

Posted By: robnbird

Re: B 400 solid roller - 08/01/14 12:21 AM

don't have that info exact ...

Posted By: robnbird

Re: B 400 solid roller - 08/01/14 12:28 AM

plane intake. 3500+ stall in 440, 3800 in 383.
.026 .028 3500 to 6300
23-705-9
5

Three-Bolt
283R-8 283 291 252 263 .660 .660 108�
829-16
3125
3125KT
1071-KIT
23
N/A 943-16
2
731-16 627-16
26
505-16
2
622-16 N/A 424 N/A
MeCHaNICal ROlleR − Best all around bracket or
Super Street cam. Best in light to medium weight car
with 11:1 compression, 4200+ stall in 440, 4500+
stall in 383.
.026 .028 4000 to 6500
23-706-9
5

Three-Bolt
RX296R-8 296 303 263 270 .650 .651 108�
829-16
3125
3125KT
1071-KIT
23
N/A 943-16
2
731-16 627-16
26
505-16
2
622-16 N/A 424 N/A
MeCHaNICal ROlleR − 383 Super Gas, Super
Street, 12:1+ compression, 5000+ stall.
.028 .030 4000 to 7000
23-758-9
5

Three-Bolt
306BR-8 306 306 273 273 .625 .625 108�
829-16
3125
3125KT
1071-KIT
23
N/A 943-16
2
731-16 627-16
26
505-16
2
622-16 N/A 424 N/A
MeCHaNICal ROlleR − Good Super Gas, Super
Street with 12:1 compression and 850+ CFM carb.
5000+ stall with 440, 5400+ with 383.
.026 .028 4500 to 7000
23-707-9
5

Three-Bolt
RX308R-8 308 315 275 282 .657 .659 108�
829-16
3125
3125KT
1071-KIT
23
N/A 943-16
2
731-16 627-16
26
505-16
2
622-16 N/A 424 N/A
MeCHaNICal ROlleR − Quick 16, Super Comp for
medium to large cubic inch.
.026 .028 5500 to 7800
23-704-9
5

Three-Bolt
REV315R-6 315 321 282 288 .693 .665 106�
829-16
3125
3125KT
1071-KIT
23

1073-KIT
23
N/A
947-16
2

26082-16
2
739-16
722-16
627-16
26

612-16
512-16
2
622-16 N/A 424 N/A
MeCHaNICal ROlleR − Fast Bracket, Super Gas
or Super Comp. Best with 12.5:1 compression and
ported iron or aftermarket heads. 5500+ stall in 440.
.026 .028 4800 to 7200
23-708-9
5

Three-Bolt
RX316R-8 316 321 283 288 .660 .663 108�
829-16
3125
3125KT
1071-KIT
23
N/A 943-16
2
731-16 627-16
26
505-16
2
622-16 N/A 424 N/A
MeCHaNICal ROlleR − Super Gas, Super Comp,
Fast Brackets. 5000+ stall.
.028 .030 5000 to 7200
23-732-9
5

Three-Bolt
320TR-8 320 320 288 288 .692 .692 108�
829-16
3125
3125KT
1071-KIT
23
N/A 943-16
2
731-16 627-16
26
505-16
2
622-16 N/A 424 N/A
MeCHaNICal ROlleR − Super Quick, Super Gas, Su-
per Comp or Fast Brackets. For use in medium to large
engines with aftermarket heads. 12.5:1 compression
with 5500-6000 stall.
.026 .028 5500 to 7500
23-709-9
5

Three-Bolt
RX322R-10 318 330 285 292 .705 .705 110�
829-16
3125
3125KT
1071-KIT
23

1073-KIT
23
N/A
947-16
2

26082-16
2
739-16
722-16
627-16
26

612-16
512-16
2
622-16 N/A 424 N/A
MeCHaNICal ROlleR − Super Gas, Super Street,
12:1 compression, 5000+ stall, 5.13 gear.
.028 .030 5000 to 7200
23-770-9
5

Three-Bolt
323BR-8 323 323 289 289 .690 .690 108�
829-16
3125
3125KT
1071-KIT
23
N/A 943-16
2
731-16 627-16
26
505-16
2
622-16 N/A 424 N/A

2
Requires machining on cylinder heads
5
Requires distributor gear upgrade
7

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: B 400 solid roller - 08/01/14 12:41 AM

Quote:

Greg thanks .. What would your numbers be for a 650 to a 670 lift .

I have learned that if you max flow at .650 lift that
you would like about .750 lift on the cam(at the valve)
because your at the .650 lift a much longer time
(you pass the .650 lift point 2 times and all the time
between) for better filling specially at RPM when you
have a shorter time period to fill... also the .750
would be a decent starting point or higher

Posted By: Sport440

Re: B 400 solid roller - 08/01/14 12:54 AM

Cam #2 or #3 should be good enough for a 6.0 1/8th in a 3200" car 500ci. 12.5 comp 5000 stall

Posted By: robnbird

Re: B 400 solid roller - 08/01/14 03:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Greg thanks .. What would your numbers be for a 650 to a 670 lift .

I have learned that if you max flow at .650 lift that
you would like about .750 lift on the cam(at the valve)
because your at the .650 lift a much longer time
(you pass the .650 lift point 2 times and all the time
between) for better filling specially at RPM when you
have a shorter time period to fill... also the .750
would be a decent starting point or higher

what do you think about the last 4 of these comp cams? thanks

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: B 400 solid roller - 08/01/14 03:57 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Greg thanks .. What would your numbers be for a 650 to a 670 lift .

I have learned that if you max flow at .650 lift that
you would like about .750 lift on the cam(at the valve)
because your at the .650 lift a much longer time
(you pass the .650 lift point 2 times and all the time
between) for better filling specially at RPM when you
have a shorter time period to fill... also the .750
would be a decent starting point or higher

what do you think about the last 4 of these comp cams? thanks

The problem with those shelf cams is if you want the
lift the duration goes up with it... if you knew
the head flow and what rpm you wanted to turn would help

Posted By: SCATPACK 1

Re: B 400 solid roller - 08/01/14 04:12 AM

I don't think you need to go more than a R-282-286 on the duration. Lift will be determined by what the heads flow and at what lift. Some engines like less lift and will actually run better with a shorter cam because of how the heads flow. What overlap or lobe separation have you decided to go with? What is the compression of the pistons you ordered.

Posted By: robnbird

Re: B 400 solid roller - 08/01/14 04:43 AM

the compression is 12.7 to 1 rpm around 7000 Im guessing the air flow will be about 320ish. from what I have read .

Posted By: robnbird

Re: B 400 solid roller - 08/01/14 04:46 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Greg thanks .. What would your numbers be for a 650 to a 670 lift .

I have learned that if you max flow at .650 lift that
you would like about .750 lift on the cam(at the valve)
because your at the .650 lift a much longer time
(you pass the .650 lift point 2 times and all the time
between) for better filling specially at RPM when you
have a shorter time period to fill... also the .750
would be a decent starting point or higher

what do you think about the last 4 of these comp cams? thanks

The problem with those shelf cams is if you want the
lift the duration goes up with it... if you knew
the head flow and what rpm you wanted to turn would help

the air flow I have to guess now ,, but from what I have read it possible will be around 320ish

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: B 400 solid roller - 08/01/14 04:58 AM

I used a Comp Cams custom grind solid roller cam in my old pump gas Duster motor, it was 260@.050 intake with .420 lobe lift, 266 @ .050 on the exhaust lobes with .409 lobe lift. 108 LSA in at 106 to 107 on the intake side

I used a set of Harland Sharp 1.60 ratio(actually checked to be 1.65 ratio at the retainers

) rockers, that combination flat rocked

. My message is sometimes more duration is not the answer, more lift on BB Mopar heads does help fill the cylinders well

Camshaft picking is a art, just like converters can be

On your deal I would look at a cam with 268 to 274 @ .050 on the intake side and 274 to 278 @ .050 on the exhaust side with as much lobe lift I could get on both lobes, ground on a 108 or 110 LSA and install it to start with from 104 to 106 on the intake side

:twocents :Make sure and get the best valve springs and pushrods out there

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: B 400 solid roller - 08/01/14 05:00 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Greg thanks .. What would your numbers be for a 650 to a 670 lift .

I have learned that if you max flow at .650 lift that
you would like about .750 lift on the cam(at the valve)
because your at the .650 lift a much longer time
(you pass the .650 lift point 2 times and all the time
between) for better filling specially at RPM when you
have a shorter time period to fill... also the .750
would be a decent starting point or higher

what do you think about the last 4 of these comp cams? thanks

The problem with those shelf cams is if you want the
lift the duration goes up with it... if you knew
the head flow and what rpm you wanted to turn would help

the air flow I have to guess now ,, but from what I have read it possible will be around 320ish

At what lift... that'll say how much lift you need
if you want to go all out

Posted By: Sport440

Re: B 400 solid roller - 08/02/14 02:01 AM

Quote:

[qu:

what do you think about the last 4 of these comp cams? thanks

I think they are way to big for your combo.

Bigger isnt always faster.

Posted By: robnbird

Re: B 400 solid roller - 08/02/14 05:21 AM

Quote:

Quote:

[qu:

what do you think about the last 4 of these comp cams? thanks

I think they are way to big for your combo.

Bigger isnt always faster.

well OK I don't have the heads ported as yet but will before long and then I will post that and get opinions .. thanks for the help ... I have decided to get a indy 400-3 intake . I would like to find a used one some where .

Posted By: Sport440

Re: B 400 solid roller - 08/02/14 05:45 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

[qu:

what do you think about the last 4 of these comp cams? thanks

I think they are way to big for your combo.

Bigger isnt always faster.

Well, okay here too. Nice car by the way, okay Super nice car by the way. Your 6.00,s shouldnt be to hard to achieve with what your working with. Do you have any latest pics of the car? Seen the pics before and it is a sweet ride.

Posted By: robnbird

Re: B 400 solid roller - 08/02/14 06:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

[qu:

what do you think about the last 4 of these comp cams? thanks

I think they are way to big for your combo.

Bigger isnt always faster.

well OK I don't have the heads ported as yet but will before long and then I will post that and get opinions .. thanks for the help ... I have decided to get a indy 400-3 intake . I would like to find a used one some where .

try this