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Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ???
Posted By: 451Guy
Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/25/14 01:02 AM
Sorry this is long but here we go.
I have been at the track the last few weekends racing Hot Rod/Super Street. Unfortunately, I was eliminated a little earlier than I would have liked on Sunday and was able to made a couple of wide open test hits. I have done quite a bit to my car and I was fully expecting it to pick up. I will describe my previous combo and what has changed and you guys can offer advice.
Original Engine Combo
512 cubic inch 400 based engine
3.380 Bore - 4.250 Stroke
13.5 Compression
Max Wedge ported Indy SR ported by Jeff at Modern
1.5 Ratio Harland Sharpe Rockers
1050 Chuck Nytten Gas dominator
Indy 4500 Intake with approximately 3/4 of spacer
Hooker Fender well headers (44 Primary Tubes) with 3.5 inch exhaust exciting before the rear tires
Scott Brown Roller Cam 630 lift with 1.5 rocker, 278 Duration@ 50, 112 centerline
Transmission
Powerglide with 1.80 Straight cut gear set
5600 PTI 8 Converter
Rear End
Mark Williams Sheet metal 9 with aluminum center section and rifle drilled 40 spline axles. 456 Gears
Chassis
1971 Demon all steel except fiberglass hood, deck lid front and rear bumpers
Full cage with round tube back half
Factory Glass
6 pack hood scoop carb not sealed.
Stock engine compartment with inner fenders except where headers go through
Factory dash
4 Link rear suspension
Custom built rack and pinion Front suspension.
QA 1 Double adjustable Front Shocks
QA 1 Double adjustable Rear Coil Overs
Anti Sway bar
Goodyear 24 front tire
Goodyear 32 x 15.5 x 15
Car weighs 3040 pounds with my big butt in it.
Best ET with this combo is 9.58 @ 139 with a 1.36 60. That took placing the fall in 2007 and I dont have a corrected altitude.
1st set of changes I made.
Changed Heads from Ported SRs to INDY -1s CNC 325
Replaced the 1.5 Rockers with 1.6 Rockers
Went from Hooker Fenderwell Headers (44 primary) to shorter Headman Hustlers (36 primary) both 2
Removed the exhaust
Removed non sealed 6 pack hood scoop and added a sealed pro stock scoop.
Replaced the PTC converter with an A1 that stalled at 6200
Replaced Goodyears with Hoosiers. 26on front, 32x15.5 x 15 Slicks
September 2013 Corrected Altitude - 3409
60 1.401
330 3.973
660 6.145
Mph 113.20
1000 8.029
1/4 9.625
Mph 140.75
2nd Set of Changes
Lowered the Stall to 5600 to try to get the pig to leave
Added a Star Machine Vacuum pump and puke can
June 2014 Corrected Altitude - 3971
60 1.386
330 3.958
660 6.139
Mph 112.78
1000 8.029
1/4 9.636
Mph 140.14
To be honest I thought that it would pick up a bit. In the past removing the exhaust was a tenth. The shorter headers were a 15 17 horsepower better on the dyno. I thought the heads would be a wash. I thought that the rockers would help a tiny bit too. Also sealing the scoop to the carb is supposed to be the best thing since nitros.
Any Input would be appreciated and any suggestions. I would really like to get this thing to leave.
Posted By: 440W8 Duster
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/25/14 01:14 AM
Did you try to shift it higher or lower? did you dyno it? What do you shift it at? What does the converter fall back to when you shift it?
http://youtu.be/RTDkU8WCjLo
Posted By: dusturbd340W5
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/25/14 01:15 AM
I say you are leaving a lot on the table with that small of a cam.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/25/14 01:16 AM
Whats the 4 link settings
Posted By: JAKE68
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/25/14 02:22 AM
See im looking at it alittle different. Those old no. were your best. what was your average. did the compression stay they same from the different heads,did you have it back on the dyno and retune your new combo,it may be out to lunch. also Im thinking that is a lot of converter for that thing hardly any mph for that et even thou it picked up 1.5 mph from your old Best!!
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/25/14 02:24 AM
Quote:
I say you are leaving a lot on the table with that small of a cam.
Not a fan at all of Scott Brown cams. Ran one he did for me few years back and it was a dog, compared to what it replaced.
Your car should be fairly light, should 60 well better than 1.36. That wide LSA cam I bet isn't helping that at all. 
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/25/14 03:13 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I say you are leaving a lot on the table with that small of a cam.
Not a fan at all of Scott Brown cams. Ran one he did for me few years back and it was a dog, compared to what it replaced.
Your car should be fairly light, should 60 well better than 1.36. That wide LSA cam I bet isn't helping that at all.
I didnt care for my Scott Brown cam either.. he liked
the 112 LSA but mine was short on lift and a bit too
much duration
Posted By: Edge
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/25/14 03:16 AM
1.5 MPH over your previous best is good news so you are making more power. 60 foot is still pretty soft with lots of opportunity for improvement.
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/25/14 03:21 AM
If I were the OP, I would give Dwayne Porter a call with all your combination, and have him spec out the correct cam for you.
I would bet good money doing that one thing would show solid gains across the map.
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/25/14 03:49 AM
Quote:
I say you are leaving a lot on the table with that small of a cam.
Nowhere near optimum camshaft for the application..
Those heads really wake up with some lift, and getting valve timing correct will help everywhere.
Keith
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/25/14 05:15 AM
Why is the cam so small. Is that what Scott wanted to put in it, or were there limitations. You have a race car motor, with a street car camshaft
Speaking of Scott, he does a LOT of cams for me and I have had nothing but VERY good results with everything he has ever done.
Monte
Posted By: gregsdart
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/25/14 01:10 PM
Look at the head flow at your current net valve lift(.600) versus what you will have with about .725 lift (.750 lift gross). A decent roller for your combo IMHO would be about 280 to 282 at .050 intake, 288 at .050 exhaust, on a 110 LSA probably in at 108. The 110 LSA is that wide to accommodate the long 288 exhaust duration and keep the overlap about right. Less exhaust duration might dictate a cam of 108 LSA. These numbers are coming from all the recommendations I have gotten for my 528 with 440-1 heads. I am not that much bigger than your motor, so the cams ought to be similar. Also, the smaller the intake valve to cubes, the narrower the LSA needs to be. The reason is the poorer the heads flow for the size motor, the more overlap is needed to get the intake flow moving.
The first cam I had in the 528 was an Isky RR735.
It had 280/288/110 specs, .735 intake lift with 1.5 rockers. I had 1.55 ratio rockers on then for .761 gross lift. That cam made 847 hp on the dyno, and the car went 8.77 at 153 on radial slicks at 3,000 lbs. That would be about 8.85 on bias tires. You have a lot of power there, it just needs to be unlocked with a cam and compression. I run 15/1 with alky, and wouldn't run less than 13.5 or 14/1 with gas.
I am also a fan of very loose converters. They flat work for me. I got a $1500 lesson on that this spring. I tried another converter, set for about 500 rpm over peak torque. The car slowed over 2 tenths!. My current converter flashes to 6600 and I shift at 7100, which I know is very loose, but it is at least .05 faster than it was flashing to 6,000.
You run a glide, so being loose enough would be even more important to you, IMO. I run a three speed.
Posted By: 451Guy
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/26/14 10:34 PM
Thanks guys for the responses. I had a chance to read them but I have been crazy busy so I could not respond till now.
The cam was designed for the 451 I had in the car previously. It worked well in that motor. It was easy on parts and I had not had issues with it. We had dynoed a friends motor that had a way bigger cam in it and the results were similar so I went with it. I must admit I was a little hurt when the dyno operator asked me what year motorhome the engine was going in once he had heard it run.
With regards to the 4 link I think this is the area I need to concentrate on. I have a set of scales and I am going to scale it. I will also plot the bars once that is done and I know where we are at I can make some adjustments. The issue at our track is we don't get any runs so it could take a full season to get the four link set up. I realize that if I want it to work right I need to do it but I also want race.
I am still not sure that the converter is right. I have attached a copy of the dyno sheet. I am confused by the torque curve on this sheet. Almost like the operator should have lowered the start rpm for the pulls to get the torque peak. In my opinion (which is more than likely completely wrong) I think that a 5600 to 6200 stall is too high. I am tempted to try a lower stall just for kicks but the eight (that's right Eight perfectly good converters) that I currently own are stopping me from buying another one.
There are a lot of guys on this site that have forgotten more about this stuff than I will ever know so your input and expertise are greatly appreciated.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/26/14 10:44 PM
Based on the dyno sheet your peak torque is either
right at the 4600 or before it.. so thats hard to say..
but its falling from that point
Posted By: 1980volare
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/26/14 11:01 PM
Converter.
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/27/14 01:15 AM
Quote:
Thanks guys for the responses. I had a chance to read them but I have been crazy busy so I could not respond till now.
The cam was designed for the 451 I had in the car previously. It worked well in that motor. It was easy on parts and I had not had issues with it. We had dynoed a friends motor that had a way bigger cam in it and the results were similar so I went with it. I must admit I was a little hurt when the dyno operator asked me what year motorhome the engine was going in once he had heard it run.
With regards to the 4 link I think this is the area I need to concentrate on. I have a set of scales and I am going to scale it. I will also plot the bars once that is done and I know where we are at I can make some adjustments. The issue at our track is we don't get any runs so it could take a full season to get the four link set up. I realize that if I want it to work right I need to do it but I also want race.
I am still not sure that the converter is right. I have attached a copy of the dyno sheet. I am confused by the torque curve on this sheet. Almost like the operator should have lowered the start rpm for the pulls to get the torque peak. In my opinion (which is more than likely completely wrong) I think that a 5600 to 6200 stall is too high. I am tempted to try a lower stall just for kicks but the eight (that's right Eight perfectly good converters) that I currently own are stopping me from buying another one.
There are a lot of guys on this site that have forgotten more about this stuff than I will ever know so your input and expertise are greatly appreciated.
The cam was designed for the 451............. Well there you go.........LOL!!!
Monte
Posted By: dusturbd340W5
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/27/14 01:41 AM
motors never going to give what it should with that cam.
I ran a cam larger than that in a sb 416
Posted By: 451Guy
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/27/14 02:25 AM
thanks again for the responses but I the questions I asked was not "please critique my cam choice". The cam has been a constant and I am aware that it,s not optimum for the new combination but my question is based on the changes that I made with no improvement in ET.
Changing the heads, increasing the rocker ratio to 1.6 from 1.5, adding a pro stock hood scoop that is sealed to the carb rather than the old school six pac scoop, lowering the stall by 500 rpm. Last time I did that the car picked up 4 tenths! Putting on a shorter tube header which was worth 20 hp on the dyno. Lastly adding a vacuum pump.
I thought that this stuff would make a a bit of a difference. But maybe not.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/27/14 02:34 AM
With your new set up is the carb dialed in yet
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/27/14 02:44 AM
All those changes allow you to pump more air through your air pump(engine) PROVIDED that it can. The cam is the cork, While the parts are CAPABLE of moving more air, the cam won't let them.
Monte
Posted By: 493_DART
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/27/14 04:40 AM
i agree with trying different shift points. My stroker likes lower shift points . (torque)
also--i started with a "scott brown cam" , it worked good ....but i put in a similar spec Hughes cam and the car picked up almost 2 tenths. On the cam swap alone. No bs.
Posted By: n20mstr
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/27/14 04:56 AM
I always have my converter made....with the cam specs,most my question is this,you guys that swap cams and pick up, do you restall the converter ? IF NOT then you really don't know.....you can't just swap cams and compare. Often it's the Whole package....
Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/27/14 05:06 AM
Quote:
All those changes allow you to pump more air through your air pump(engine) PROVIDED that it can. The cam is the cork, While the parts are CAPABLE of moving more air, the cam won't let them.
Monte
^^^^ This, but it's not what you wanted to hear.. 
Chris..
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/27/14 06:31 AM
OP, when some changes don't make sense on the results there is usually a reason for the no change results
I like to make sure of the basics first like the fuel supply, shift points,RPM drop on teh shift(converter effeincy) header length and so on. Can you fatten the carb. up enough to slow the car down in the 1/4 mile? If not look at the fuel supply, if so look try shifting it sooner or later and look at the RPM drop on the shift into high gear. If the converter won't let the RPM drop below 4500 RPM no matter when you shift it look at trying another one of your other converters that you know will let the RPM drop enough to get it close to 4000 RPM on the gear change
Let us know what you do and find out
BTW, what RPM are you shifting at now? What is the RPM drop on the shift?
Posted By: gregsdart
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/27/14 09:45 AM
Sometimes performance can be off for something that is taken for granted, like valve springs. If they aren't doing the best job, the car will be off quite a bit. Sometimes the needed springs are much bigger than recommended by the cam grinder, or just plain better springs. I found that to be true with a good sized roller years ago. It turned out the springs were the problem to the tune of .11 in the 1/8th mile. Those springs were up to spec, but a bad design that others had had problems with as well. Resonance frequency and spring weight is something often overlooked.
As far as critiquing the cam, that's part of the deal when you ask why a combo isn't working.
What density altitude was your best run at?
Posted By: dirty magnum
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/27/14 09:54 PM
carb to small
Posted By: dirty magnum
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/27/14 09:56 PM
cam to small
Posted By: 451Guy
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/28/14 12:45 AM
Cab - I shifted it at 7000 and the rpm dropped to 5500 - 5600. I have tried shifting it higher but it did no go any faster so there was no reason to still shift it up there. I have never tried shifting it lower.
Greg - The springs have about 35 runs on them since Dwayne Porter did the heads. I did not even consider them to be an issue. The car run good so I never really considered going there.
I had also thought about changing the carb but the one I have runs so good I have procrastinated on spending that money.
I do realize that a bunch of my stuff is left over or reused from my previous engine but unfortunately buying all new stuff for a new engine is not an option. I realize that this means my combination is not optimum.
Like Monty said maybe I have to put a cam in it to get all the other stuff to work.
Thanks again for the input
Posted By: STEFF
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/28/14 01:32 AM
Quote:
Quote:
All those changes allow you to pump more air through your air pump(engine) PROVIDED that it can. The cam is the cork, While the parts are CAPABLE of moving more air, the cam won't let them.
Monte
^^^^ This, but it's not what you wanted to hear..
Chris..
I was thinking the same thing........not the answer the o.p. wanted to hear. Unfortunately, the most important part of the induction system wasn't changed. A cylinder head change should never be considered without a cam change to compliment the new heads.
Posted By: racerx
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/28/14 03:08 AM
So an engine of this size, what size cam would benefit this combo?
Posted By: Barnstorm
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/28/14 03:42 AM
If that combo could 60ft 1.25-1.30 it would be a 9.40 car...speed isn't bad.
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 06/28/14 08:38 PM
Quote:
Cab - I shifted it at 7000 and the rpm dropped to 5500 - 5600. I have tried shifting it higher but it did no go any faster so there was no reason to still shift it up there. I have never tried shifting it lower.
Greg - The springs have about 35 runs on them since Dwayne Porter did the heads. I did not even consider them to be an issue. The car run good so I never really considered going there.
I had also thought about changing the carb but the one I have runs so good I have procrastinated on spending that money.
I do realize that a bunch of my stuff is left over or reused from my previous engine but unfortunately buying all new stuff for a new engine is not an option. I realize that this means my combination is not optimum.
Like Monty said maybe I have to put a cam in it to get all the other stuff to work.
Thanks again for the input
One other thing here.......that is a LOT of rpm drop on the shift. Two things........one, either you are turning the motor WAY too hard for that camshaft, or the converter is too tight at the shift to make it drop so much rpm.......Does the motor accelerate good AFTER the shift, or does it just lay on the converter
Monte
Posted By: Lance6611
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 07/01/14 09:33 PM
wanna borrow a bigger cam? I have a couple. I have always run cams that are too big. lol
Posted By: HardcoreB
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 07/01/14 09:58 PM
In addition to what has been suggested. I wouldn't assume those new heads being any better what you already had.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 07/01/14 10:26 PM
Quote:
wanna borrow a bigger cam? I have a couple. I have always run cams that are too big. lol
I`d throw a bigger cam in there for sure but not on a 112 lsa.........maybe a 108 in around 105................and apparently I too over cam my junk.......... 
Posted By: Sport440
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 07/01/14 11:16 PM
That 512 has no use for that 6200 stall vert. Put the 5200 back in it if you have it.
The cams not terrible IMO, but could use some more lift and a 110 lsa.
Based on your Dyno chart, the Vert change would be the biggest bang for the buc. No bucs if you still have the old one.
Posted By: gregsdart
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 07/02/14 12:32 AM
Quote:
That 512 has no use for that 6200 stall vert. Put the 5200 back in it if you have it.
The cams not terrible IMO, but could use some more lift and a 110 lsa.
Based on your Dyno chart, the Vert change would be the biggest bang for the buc. No bucs if you still have the old one.
Once he gets this deal sorted out and puts a good cam in it, it will want 7100 to 7200 shift points, and will tolerate a 6500 flash converter very well. More than a couple of us have found lose really flys. I just spent $1500 to find out my 6600 stall is a LOT faster than the new 5600 stall I put in it. I shift at 7100. My peak torque is around 5300.
Posted By: 451Guy
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 07/02/14 11:14 PM
Please find attached a copy of the cam card.
Hardcore - I am in total agreement with you! I was not expecting anything from the head change. I had this exact conversation with Dwayne Porter when I ordered the heads. Neither one of us thought they would make much of a difference. My SR's flowed awesome but they leaked everywhere. Dwayne's prediction was that the car would not ET any quicker but it may MPH a little quicker. He proved to be correct.
Monty - I will check my play back tach. I made a couple quick hits at the last race and then it went in the trailer.
Lance - I may take you up on that. But I will buy it! I don't have much luck with borrowed stuff
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Posted By: B3422W5
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 07/02/14 11:20 PM
Quote:
Please find attached a copy of the cam card.
Hardcore - I am in total agreement with you! I was not expecting anything from the head change. I had this exact conversation with Dwayne Porter when I ordered the heads. Neither one of us thought they would make much of a difference. My SR's flowed awesome but they leaked everywhere. Dwayne's prediction was that the car would not ET any quicker but it may MPH a little quicker. He proved to be correct.
Monty - I will check my play back tach. I made a couple quick hits at the last race and then it went in the trailer.
Lance - I may take you up on that. But I will buy it! I don't have much luck with borrowed stuff
Not to pile on....but I definitely would have had Dwayne do up a cam for you, not Scott Brown...
Posted By: 451Guy
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 07/03/14 12:45 AM
When I bought the cam Scott was providing tons of cams for members here with great results. Over all I am very happy with the cam. It replaced the Indy R2 cam that I had in it that was a valve train killer! Car ran better also.
I have now had the chance to deal with Dwayne on a bunch of stuff and I would not hesitate to go with a cam that he spec'd.
We will see. Cams are like women. Everyone likes em a little different
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 07/03/14 12:58 AM
Quote:
When I bought the cam Scott was providing tons of cams for members here with great results. Over all I am very happy with the cam. It replaced the Indy R2 cam that I had in it that was a valve train killer! Car ran better also.
I have now had the chance to deal with Dwayne on a bunch of stuff and I would not hesitate to go with a cam that he spec'd.
We will see. Cams are like women. Everyone likes em a little different
I pulled out a Dwayne cam, Scott knew exactly what it was, and my motor very well. Put in his 112 cam( told him it would slow it down), but tried it anyhow..and car never again with that cam ran within 1.5 tenths of the cam Dwayne did up. Scott likes 112 for pretty much everything, it killed my 60 foot, but mph was almost identical...
I know other guys who's cams didn't work either....
when Best Machine built a new stouter motor for me than the above one, they wanted to use a Scott Brown cam. I insisted I wanted to use a cam Dwayne specced, so we did, after Best was convinced by Dwayne why he did what he did. The new owner of the car ramped the build up even further and had Dwayne do that one as well. He told me the cams Best uses now for stout Indy head smallblock stuff are now similar to what Dwayne likes, after seeing the power and ET. Got to give them credit for looking at everything and adapting, mark of good engine builders.
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 07/03/14 05:12 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Please find attached a copy of the cam card.
Hardcore - I am in total agreement with you! I was not expecting anything from the head change. I had this exact conversation with Dwayne Porter when I ordered the heads. Neither one of us thought they would make much of a difference. My SR's flowed awesome but they leaked everywhere. Dwayne's prediction was that the car would not ET any quicker but it may MPH a little quicker. He proved to be correct.
Monty - I will check my play back tach. I made a couple quick hits at the last race and then it went in the trailer.
Lance - I may take you up on that. But I will buy it! I don't have much luck with borrowed stuff
Not to pile on....but I definitely would have had Dwayne do up a cam for you, not Scott Brown...
That's not really fair to Scott. That's twice you have thrown him under the bus, because you got one that didn't work out. As good as he is, I doubt EVERY cam Dewayne Porter has ever speced out was perfect. Scott sells a LOT of cams and the engines he does make very good power for what they are.........Myself, I have probably gotten 20+ cams from Scott just THIS YEAR. Waiting on 4 right now. They work for me, VERY well.
Monte
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 07/03/14 05:22 AM
Quote:
Quote:
When I bought the cam Scott was providing tons of cams for members here with great results. Over all I am very happy with the cam. It replaced the Indy R2 cam that I had in it that was a valve train killer! Car ran better also.
I have now had the chance to deal with Dwayne on a bunch of stuff and I would not hesitate to go with a cam that he spec'd.
We will see. Cams are like women. Everyone likes em a little different
I pulled out a Dwayne cam, Scott knew exactly what it was, and my motor very well. Put in his 112 cam( told him it would slow it down), but tried it anyhow..and car never again with that cam ran within 1.5 tenths of the cam Dwayne did up. Scott likes 112 for pretty much everything, it killed my 60 foot, but mph was almost identical...
I know other guys who's cams didn't work either....
when Best Machine built a new stouter motor for me than the above one, they wanted to use a Scott Brown cam. I insisted I wanted to use a cam Dwayne specced, so we did, after Best was convinced by Dwayne why he did what he did. The new owner of the car ramped the build up even further and had Dwayne do that one as well. He told me the cams Best uses now for stout Indy head smallblock stuff are now similar to what Dwayne likes, after seeing the power and ET. Got to give them credit for looking at everything and adapting, mark of good engine builders.
You say the car didn't "work" yet it ran nearly the identical MPH according to you. So they obviously made near the same power, just maybe not in the same place. Maybe the other cam needed a converter change to get the benefit of the other cam.
And also, you "knew" it wasn't going to work when you put it in there, so maybe you didn't do everything possible to "make" it work.
Not really trying to bust your chops here, but it seems you are being pretty hard on Scott to me. Ok, his idea didn't work for YOU, but not fair to suggest he doesn't know what he is doing.
Monte
Posted By: 451Guy
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 07/03/14 07:03 AM
Personally I like my Scott Brown cam. I liked it so much I put one in my street car too. That does not mean I would not try one from Dwayne or another manufacturer " in the name of Hot rodding" but all in all I was very happy with both his service and his product.
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 07/03/14 01:48 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
When I bought the cam Scott was providing tons of cams for members here with great results. Over all I am very happy with the cam. It replaced the Indy R2 cam that I had in it that was a valve train killer! Car ran better also.
I have now had the chance to deal with Dwayne on a bunch of stuff and I would not hesitate to go with a cam that he spec'd.
We will see. Cams are like women. Everyone likes em a little different
I pulled out a Dwayne cam, Scott knew exactly what it was, and my motor very well. Put in his 112 cam( told him it would slow it down), but tried it anyhow..and car never again with that cam ran within 1.5 tenths of the cam Dwayne did up. Scott likes 112 for pretty much everything, it killed my 60 foot, but mph was almost identical...
I know other guys who's cams didn't work either....
when Best Machine built a new stouter motor for me than the above one, they wanted to use a Scott Brown cam. I insisted I wanted to use a cam Dwayne specced, so we did, after Best was convinced by Dwayne why he did what he did. The new owner of the car ramped the build up even further and had Dwayne do that one as well. He told me the cams Best uses now for stout Indy head smallblock stuff are now similar to what Dwayne likes, after seeing the power and ET. Got to give them credit for looking at everything and adapting, mark of good engine builders.
You say the car didn't "work" yet it ran nearly the identical MPH according to you. So they obviously made near the same power, just maybe not in the same place. Maybe the other cam needed a converter change to get the benefit of the other cam.
And also, you "knew" it wasn't going to work when you put it in there, so maybe you didn't do everything possible to "make" it work.
Not really trying to bust your chops here, but it seems you are being pretty hard on Scott to me. Ok, his idea didn't work for YOU, but not fair to suggest he doesn't know what he is doing.
Monte
I "always" try hard to make anything I have ever run, to be as fast as it can be, including the cam Scott specced out... Think I liked my car running like a dog?
I have never seen( to my knowledge) the guy ever recommend anything narrower than a 112 LSA cam. My combo at that time was heavy(3400 pounds) and didn't have a lot of compression( 11.5).... I figured the wider LSA would bleed off some compression, and move the power and up somewhat.
It effectively killed the car's 60 foot, and despite the cam doing a good job regards shift recovery, it couldn't offset the losses in 60 foot and early in the run.
It was a POOR cam for my application.
It's obvious 112 LSA stuff doesn't work for everything. If it did lower compression stockers and superstockers wouldn't use 106 and even narrower LSA cams to bring in torque sooner, and in dealing with challenged heads.
The opinion I expressed was based on my on track testing, and isn't " throwing under the bus" anybody.
If his lousy 112 cam had made my well scienced out combo run better, I would commend him.
Dwayne's stuff has always met or exceeded the expectations I have had. Scott's didn't.
I don't care if you have used 10,000 of his cams, what I used from him was a dog.
Posted By: B1HEAD_USER
Re: Made changes! No Faster! Me Confused ??? - 07/04/14 05:47 AM
The roller I bought from him is ground on 108 lsa and installed at 104 icl. I have been very happy with it.