Posted By: MattW
360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 04:22 PM
Here are pictures of a stock 360 crank and 5.7 crank.
360 and 5.7 crank pics
Posted By: MattW
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 04:24 PM
Oiling holes are smaller on the 5.7.
360 has 1/4
5.7 is 15/64
360 has 1/4
5.7 is 15/64
Posted By: MattW
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 04:27 PM
The only difference in these cranks (oiling) is that the mains on the 5.7 are drilled straight through. Plus there is little to no chamfer around the hole.
Now I'm no expert but why would this be an issue.
The cross drilling seems to be the same.
Matt
Now I'm no expert but why would this be an issue.
The cross drilling seems to be the same.
Matt
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 04:39 PM
Quote:
The only difference in these cranks (oiling) is that the mains on the 5.7 are drilled straight through. Plus there is little to no chamfer around the hole.
Now I'm no expert but why would this be an issue.
The cross drilling seems to be the same.
Matt
I'm no pro either but I like to see a decent champfer
on the holes... to me it spreads the oil easier..
maybe some of the pros will comment
Posted By: 340B5
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 07:12 PM
I tend to agree with some; that the opposite centrifugal force keeps oil from getting to the rods.
Posted By: MattW
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 08:30 PM
Quote:
I tend to agree with some; that the opposite centrifugal force keeps oil from getting to the rods.
OK so lets say that this is true. Then wouldn't the oil act like a dam and force oil to the rods correct. This is under 60 psi.
As previously mentioned the only differences between the two are that the crank is that the 5.7 is drilled straight through on the mains.
Not trying to be an A$$ just trying to understand.
Matt
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 09:13 PM
Being that both holes are the same distance from the
center line they will both have the same force on them
but 180* out... I think the idea was they could oil the
bearings more(rod bearings)... but from what others
have said, the rods are the weak link in the bottom
end.. so MAYBE the opposite hole is picking up air
(guess on my part)
center line they will both have the same force on them
but 180* out... I think the idea was they could oil the
bearings more(rod bearings)... but from what others
have said, the rods are the weak link in the bottom
end.. so MAYBE the opposite hole is picking up air
(guess on my part)
Posted By: 340B5
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 09:56 PM
Quote:Quote:
I tend to agree with some; that the opposite centrifugal force keeps oil from getting to the rods.
OK so lets say that this is true. Then wouldn't the oil act like a dam and force oil to the rods correct. This is under 60 psi.
As previously mentioned the only differences between the two are that the crank is that the 5.7 is drilled straight through on the mains.
Not trying to be an A$$ just trying to understand.
Matt
I see what you are thinking and agree that not much would flow out of the thru-drilled main when the hole is not opened to the rod, but it's the weight of the oil on both sides of the CL of the crank(in the main) that pull the oil in 2 directions at once, cancelling out each other. Then when the oil holes align to the rod, there is very limited time for the oil to overcome that force and escape to the rod.
After reading what I have on these engines, I would find an aftermarket crank if I was going to spin it over 6K.
Hope this explains my way of thinking.
Posted By: MattW
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 10:01 PM
Quote:
Being that both holes are the same distance from the
center line they will both have the same force on them
but 180* out... I think the idea was they could oil the
bearings more(rod bearings)... but from what others
have said, the rods are the weak link in the bottom
end.. so MAYBE the opposite hole is picking up air
(guess on my part)
Thats something I havent thought about.
Posted By: MattW
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 10:05 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
I tend to agree with some; that the opposite centrifugal force keeps oil from getting to the rods.
OK so lets say that this is true. Then wouldn't the oil act like a dam and force oil to the rods correct. This is under 60 psi.
As previously mentioned the only differences between the two are that the crank is that the 5.7 is drilled straight through on the mains.
Not trying to be an A$$ just trying to understand.
Matt
I see what you are thinking and agree that not much would flow out of the thru-drilled main when the hole is not opened to the rod, but it's the weight of the oil on both sides of the CL of the crank(in the main) that pull the oil in 2 directions at once, cancelling out each other. Then when the oil holes align to the rod, there is very limited time for the oil to overcome that force and escape to the rod.
After reading what I have on these engines, I would find an aftermarket crank if I was going to spin it over 6K.
Hope this explains my way of thinking.
I see what your trying to explain. So if someone would plug the hole from the mains and just leave it open for the rods this would be exactly what the LA crank would have.
I wonder if this would work?
I plan on testing this theory in the fall with a junkyard 5.7. If my friend is willing to help me.
Matt
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 10:11 PM
I see what your trying to explain. So if someone would plug the hole from the mains and just leave it open for the rods this would be exactly what the LA crank would have.
I wonder if this would work?
I plan on testing this theory in the fall with a junkyard 5.7. If my friend is willing to help me.
Matt
IMO .. that would be a very good test.. and I think
the results would be positive
I wonder if this would work?
I plan on testing this theory in the fall with a junkyard 5.7. If my friend is willing to help me.
Matt
IMO .. that would be a very good test.. and I think
the results would be positive
Posted By: MattW
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 10:15 PM
So what to use?
Press in a plug the whole length and clearance the front. Keep in mind that if the plug is dead centre if should not move.
Use two set screws at both ends?
Anybody else?
Matt
Press in a plug the whole length and clearance the front. Keep in mind that if the plug is dead centre if should not move.
Use two set screws at both ends?
Anybody else?
Matt
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 10:25 PM
I think that if you press in a plug it would stay even
without a tac weld due to it being so close to center..
maybe about .002-.003 press fit
without a tac weld due to it being so close to center..
maybe about .002-.003 press fit
Posted By: TRENDZ
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 10:33 PM
I'd feel a bit safer with threads. I realize that the sharp edges of threads would create stress risers though.
Even being close to the c/l, you still have oil press, heat and some flex cycles in that area. Just my
, but I agree with the basic theory on the oiling issue.
Even being close to the c/l, you still have oil press, heat and some flex cycles in that area. Just my
, but I agree with the basic theory on the oiling issue.
Posted By: 340B5
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 10:43 PM
Quote:
I'd feel a bit safer with threads. I realize that the sharp edges of threads would create stress risers though.
Even being close to the c/l, you still have oil press, heat and some flex cycles in that area. Just my
I was thinking threads too, even though the interference fit should work on a plug it's just the thought that would make me
Maybe just a small indentation on the disabled oil hole side to keep the plug from reaching the bearing should it get loose?
Posted By: TRENDZ
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 10:45 PM
After looking at the pics again, I dont think you could do this.
Without the crank here to look at, it seems that the main journal would need to feed one rod on either side of the journal. My guess is that the intersect point for these would be to close together to separate the oil circuits. Without actually having it it's hard to tell.
Without the crank here to look at, it seems that the main journal would need to feed one rod on either side of the journal. My guess is that the intersect point for these would be to close together to separate the oil circuits. Without actually having it it's hard to tell.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 10:51 PM
Quote:
I'd feel a bit safer with threads. I realize that the sharp edges of threads would create stress risers though.
Even being close to the c/l, you still have oil press, heat and some flex cycles in that area. Just my
Being on the mains the flex should be at a minimum
and with .002-.003 press it shouldnt even move....003
is a TIGHT press and might not be possible without
issues... might need to be polished by a crank shop..
he could tig tack it and then have it polished (it would
need to be pushed in below the surface)... I use to tack
weld some cranks for a shop that put the heavy metal
in on the OD of the counter weights and they didnt move
(they did it that way because of the location that
needed the weight)
Posted By: TRENDZ
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 10:58 PM
Well, if you were only trying to plug one hole, you could drill the feed side larger, stop past the intersect point, and install the press in plug from the "safe" side. But then, the "dummy" hole would still apply oil pressure when the main saddle lines up.
Do these things have fully grooved mains?
I would really like to see an oiling diagram of these engines.
Do these things have fully grooved mains?
I would really like to see an oiling diagram of these engines.
Posted By: MattW
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 11:10 PM
Quote:
Well, if you were only trying to plug one hole, you could drill the feed side larger, stop past the intersect point, and install the press in plug from the "safe" side. But then, the "dummy" hole would still apply oil pressure when the main saddle lines up.
Do these things have fully grooved mains?
I would really like to see an oiling diagram of these engines.
The one I pulled part had 1/2 grooved mains.
Don't know if I'm reading you right but my pressed pin would allow oil to both sids of the crank. I would just eliminate the drilled centre.
I would also open up all the cross drilled and mains to 1/4 inch.
I believe the oiling system goes this way.
Oil pick up to filter to crank. Crank to cam, cam to heads, heads to lifters.
Matt
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 11:20 PM
I think I would always use a Wix racing filter.. they
dont filter the smaller partials BUT they also by pass
sooner which would supply oil at all times... JMO
dont filter the smaller partials BUT they also by pass
sooner which would supply oil at all times... JMO
Posted By: MattW
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 11:25 PM
Quote:
I think I would always use a Wix racing filter.. they
dont filter the smaller partials BUT they also by pass
sooner which would supply oil at all times... JMO
I would eliminate the filter mounting point and take out some 90 deg angles too.
Matt
Posted By: TRENDZ
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 11:26 PM
Sorry, it's hard to be descriptive without really seeing.
Are the #2 & #4 mains drilled straight through from one side to the other, as in "I can see straight through the crank."?
Next question is are #2 & #4 mains drilled twice(hole every 90 degrees) or once (hole every 180 degrees)?
From what I can see in the pics, the holes are only drilled once, and are what I would consider "out of time" with the crank throws. This is mot likely why the mains are half grooved. You would probably be best off drilling the holes in the correct timed position, and plugging the holes as mr p described.
Are the #2 & #4 mains drilled straight through from one side to the other, as in "I can see straight through the crank."?
Next question is are #2 & #4 mains drilled twice(hole every 90 degrees) or once (hole every 180 degrees)?
From what I can see in the pics, the holes are only drilled once, and are what I would consider "out of time" with the crank throws. This is mot likely why the mains are half grooved. You would probably be best off drilling the holes in the correct timed position, and plugging the holes as mr p described.
Posted By: MattW
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/21/14 11:30 PM
Quote:
Sorry, it's hard to be descriptive without really seeing.
Are the #2 & #4 mains drilled straight through from one side to the other, as in "I can see straight through the crank."?
Next question is are #2 & #4 mains drilled twice(hole every 90 degrees) or once (hole every 180 degrees)?
From what I can see in the pics, the holes are only drilled once, and are what I would consider "out of time" with the crank throws. This is mot likely why the mains are half grooved. You would probably be best off drilling the holes in the correct timed position, and plugging the holes as mr p described.
Getting pick up soon.
Cooking supper
Posted By: MattW
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/22/14 12:19 AM
So all the mains are drilled straight through.
I made a mistake with two of the mains #2 and #4 are drilled all the way through at every 90 degrees.
I made a mistake with two of the mains #2 and #4 are drilled all the way through at every 90 degrees.
Posted By: MattW
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 06/22/14 12:20 AM
#2
Posted By: MattW
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 10/13/14 07:55 PM
for Mrshred
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 10/13/14 09:27 PM
is this only on the 5.7 cranks or 6.1 and 6.4 also?
Posted By: mshred
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 10/13/14 10:47 PM
Quote:
Thanks Matt! I have the same question as Ray, would this be the same for the 6.1 and 6.4 cranks also?
Either way, look forward to what you and Jesse find out
Posted By: MattW
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 10/13/14 10:51 PM
Quote:
is this only on the 5.7 cranks or 6.1 and 6.4 also?
I have a 6.1 crank also I'll take a look.
Posted By: MattW
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 10/19/14 03:52 PM
Factory 5.7 and 6.4 crank.
Posted By: MattW
Re: 360 and 5.7 crank pics - 10/19/14 03:54 PM
They changed the oiling holes on the 6.4. Gone are the holes straight through the crankshaft. Wonder why? 
Matt
5.7
Matt
5.7
Posted By: MattW
Re: 360 ,5.7 crank and 6.4 pics UPDATE - 10/19/14 03:55 PM
6.4
Posted By: MattW
Re: 360 ,5.7 crank and 6.4 pics UPDATE - 02/15/17 09:02 PM
jhg