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360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside

Posted By: RAMM

360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/27/14 12:57 PM

The build:
'84 360 block .060" (bores would not cleanup at anything less)
Eagle steel crank 3.58" (stock stroke)
Scat I-beams (stock length)
Icon Forged flat tops 4.06" @ zero deck 1/16" ring pack Napier 2nd
Felpro 519 SD gaskets
Comp Cam 294 S w Hughes EDM lifters
Heavily ported EQ Magnums 300cfm @ .600"+
T&D 1.5/1.5 shaft rockers
Eddy 2815 SV intake
Holley 950 HP Ultra
1 5/8"-1 3/4" dyno headers with Magnaflow muffs.

So here we have a 10.8 comp stock stroke 360 with a low lift solid lifter camshaft I bought at a garage sale for $60 with heads that are iron. Admittedly the trickest parts of the build are the rockers and induction. Nevertheless I was pleasantly surprised with the outcome. J.Rob

Attached picture 8156925-IMG-20140526-00612.JPG
Posted By: RAMM

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/27/14 12:58 PM

Here's the results. This was the final test last Friday. I turned it 7250 rpm many times just to see the shape of the curve. This engine is the happiest revving 360 I've ever built. This would certainly be happier in a more strip oriented ride I would imagine.

Yes it's a little rich--I ran out of gas and time on Friday. There may be more. J.Rob

Attached picture 8156927-540hpdyno.JPG
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/27/14 02:47 PM

Not bad... being that its real rich I'd say there is
more in it
Posted By: Crizila

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/27/14 03:52 PM

Impressive #'s. Big time port work to get 300 cfm from those heads. Nice combo. Torque curve nice and broad - and not too far up in to the rpm range.
Posted By: RAMM

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/27/14 04:02 PM

Quote:

Impressive #'s. Big time port work to get 300 cfm from those heads. Nice combo. Torque curve nice and broad - and not too far up in to the rpm range.



Thanks guys. Yes the heads are worked extensively as is the intake manifold. I don't find the torque to be all that impressive. I tested at 4000 rpm and it produced 410-415 ft/lbs. However what is impressive is the little .507" net lift after .018" lash cam made even what it did. I was expecting much less to be honest maybe 485-500 hp max. J.Rob
Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/27/14 04:03 PM

Nice
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/27/14 04:31 PM

Very Nice!

Would think a smaller manifold like an Air Gap would broaden the torque curve (higher average) than the SV which (using conventional thought anyway) would skew the power upstairs at the expense of the upper bottom/midrange.

Very Impressive overall power...especially considering the smallish cam.
Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/27/14 04:46 PM

My 440 suddenly feels inadequate...
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/27/14 05:21 PM

NICE..............
Posted By: cudadoug

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/27/14 06:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Impressive #'s. Big time port work to get 300 cfm from those heads. Nice combo. Torque curve nice and broad - and not too far up in to the rpm range.



Thanks guys. Yes the heads are worked extensively as is the intake manifold. I don't find the torque to be all that impressive. I tested at 4000 rpm and it produced 410-415 ft/lbs. However what is impressive is the little .507" net lift after .018" lash cam made even what it did. I was expecting much less to be honest maybe 485-500 hp max. J.Rob



Might you share the rest of the cam specs?

Thanks!
Posted By: RAMM

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/27/14 06:41 PM

Its the old CC 294s 248/248 110. J.Rob
Posted By: 70AARcuda

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/27/14 06:46 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Impressive #'s. Big time port work to get 300 cfm from those heads. Nice combo. Torque curve nice and broad - and not too far up in to the rpm range.



Thanks guys. Yes the heads are worked extensively as is the intake manifold. I don't find the torque to be all that impressive. I tested at 4000 rpm and it produced 410-415 ft/lbs. However what is impressive is the little .507" net lift after .018" lash cam made even what it did. I was expecting much less to be honest maybe 485-500 hp max. J.Rob



Might you share the rest of the cam specs?

Thanks!



http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-20-248-4/overview/make/dodge
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/27/14 07:39 PM

Very impressive!

I bet a set of 1.6 rockers would add quite a bit, get it more into the flow zone of the heads and slightly improve the PR geometry
Posted By: sshemi

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/27/14 10:21 PM

Wow. Those heads must be HUGE making peak power that high!
Posted By: cudadoug

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/27/14 10:46 PM

Quote:

Wow. Those heads must be HUGE making peak power that high!



I can't speak for these heads, but I doubt it. Velocity seems to be a key part of the Magnum head. When I fist looked a set of RHS ports, I thought, "NO WAY will these flow." I was wrong...end of story.
Posted By: sshemi

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/28/14 06:25 AM

I mean that high up in the rpms.
Posted By: pro451bee

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/28/14 07:05 AM

Aren't magnum heads already 1.6 ratio?
Posted By: dizuster

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/28/14 12:24 PM

Very impressive numbers...can't wait to see what it does in the car.

Jeez I hope my new MCH CNC Eddy's don't want to turn that much rpm...my cast crank hates me enough as it is...lol
Posted By: RAMM

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/28/14 12:52 PM

Quote:

Aren't magnum heads already 1.6 ratio?



These are old T&D rockers in a 1.5/1.5 ratio. J.Rob
Posted By: RAMM

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/28/14 12:54 PM

Quote:

Very impressive numbers...can't wait to see what it does in the car.

Jeez I hope my new MCH CNC Eddy's don't want to turn that much rpm...my cast crank hates me enough as it is...lol



I have an Eagle 4340 steel crank in this engine. J.Rob
Posted By: RAMM

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/28/14 12:57 PM

Quote:

Wow. Those heads must be HUGE making peak power that high!



The heads were an exercise in CSA exploration as they were previously used on a 416 cube engine. That engine made 563 hp with this induction and bigger hyd roller cam. I'm thinking the exhaust side is the next cork in the equation. I can't remember exactly what the CSA was but it was 2.35 or 2.45" at the pinch. J.Rob
Posted By: sshemi

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/28/14 03:53 PM

Offset rockers?
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/28/14 05:09 PM

I just had Bullet grind me a small solid roller for my 440 W2

CRA 284/292-09UR
(U means its the old Ultradyne grind)
284/292 @.020
251/259@.050
172/178@.200
.605/.605 (1.5:1)
.645/.645 (1.6:1)
109 spread

With the right springs I bet it would be a pretty good fit for this one as well, probably as good or better torque out of the basement with a bit better breathing (.200-up) capability up top. I'm looking for the same wall to wall type torque curve but tring to 'use it all up' by about 6000-6200.

So at 370" 4600-7300 should (roughly) correlate to 3900-6100 in a 440, which was right where I was targeting.

Any flow numbers onthe heads? Just curious what they do in the mid lifts, they must be killer at ~.400 to make that kind of power up top with such a small and low lift cam
Posted By: RAMM

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/28/14 05:47 PM

Quote:

Offset rockers?



Not really. I did not fill the pushrod tunnel in any way. J.Rob

Attached picture 8158031-T&D001(1024x768).jpg
Posted By: RAMM

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/28/14 05:51 PM

Quote:

I just had Bullet grind me a small solid roller for my 440 W2

CRA 284/292-09UR
(U means its the old Ultradyne grind)
284/292 @.020
251/259@.050
172/178@.200
.605/.605 (1.5:1)
.645/.645 (1.6:1)
109 spread

With the right springs I bet it would be a pretty good fit for this one as well, probably as good or better torque out of the basement with a bit better breathing (.200-up) capability up top. I'm looking for the same wall to wall type torque curve but tring to 'use it all up' by about 6000-6200.

So at 370" 4600-7300 should (roughly) correlate to 3900-6100 in a 440, which was right where I was targeting.

Any flow numbers onthe heads? Just curious what they do in the mid lifts, they must be killer at ~.400 to make that kind of power up top with such a small and low lift cam



Not as good as you might think. I don't think back-cut valves are a smart move in a lot of cases. J.Rob

Attached picture 8158033-chartgo.png
Posted By: 1Fast340

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/28/14 07:06 PM

Quote:

Very impressive numbers...can't wait to see what it does in the car.

Jeez I hope my new MCH CNC Eddy's don't want to turn that much rpm...my cast crank hates me enough as it is...lol



you should be safe aslong as that crank keeps on hating you,start worry about it if the crank start loving you enough to descide to get out of the block to see you.
Posted By: BPE

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/28/14 08:19 PM

What bore size were the heads checked on?

Rod
Posted By: RAMM

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/28/14 08:51 PM

Quote:

What bore size were the heads checked on?

Rod



Good question! The heads were flowed with a 4.06" sleeve installed in the fixture. J.Rob
Posted By: BPE

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/29/14 12:07 AM

Good Job!

Rod
Posted By: Ian

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/29/14 03:42 PM

nice job did you flow carb and intake bolted to the head and how mush loss was there.
Posted By: RAMM

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/29/14 04:44 PM

I actually did. I can only say that the flow loss was substantial when tested this way. J.Rob
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/29/14 05:50 PM

Quote:

I actually did. I can only say that the flow loss was substantial when tested this way. J.Rob




You can say that again. I am running the Super Victor on my car now as I received it for a very good deal in a group parts buy but it took a lot of work to get it to flow decent numbers. I would NEVER buy one again unless it was a heck of a good deal.
Posted By: Ian

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/30/14 06:46 AM

from memory my out of the box with mild match port indy and carb on my 245-1 loss was around 28 cfm ,after heavly porting it and dominator on my 230 cnc heads the loss is around 16 cfm ,how close have you guys got .
Posted By: RAMM

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/30/14 01:16 PM

Closer to -50 cfm through intake OOTB. J.Rob
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/30/14 03:40 PM

Raw air numbers really only tell part of the story, creating a charge in the plenum can more than offset "raw" port numbers...particulary when you consider any given intake valve is completely closed roughly 2/3'ds of the time. Not to mention solid fuel volume displaces about ~7.5% of that air in a carb'ed motor. So a raw 300 cf/minute can really only meter ~100 cf within the roughly just over 20 seconds of each minute it gets to do it. And for half of that 20 seconds (on a street cammed motor like this one, more like ~27-28 total in a high RPM race motor) the valve is on it's closing ramp. It's pretty amazing the A/F can get in there (let alone out) as well as it does.
Posted By: RAMM

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 05/30/14 04:12 PM

Quote:

Raw air numbers really only tell part of the story, creating a charge in the plenum can more than offset "raw" port numbers...particulary when you consider any given intake valve is completely closed roughly 2/3'ds of the time. Not to mention solid fuel volume displaces about ~7.5% of that air in a carb'ed motor. So a raw 300 cf/minute can really only meter ~100 cf within the roughly just over 20 seconds of each minute it gets to do it. And for half of that 20 seconds (on a street cammed motor like this one, more like ~27-28 total in a high RPM race motor) the valve is on it's closing ramp. It's pretty amazing the A/F can get in there (let alone out) as well as it does.



This is exactly why I don't put a lot of stock in intake manifold flow numbers. I have seen 400+cfm heads with sheetmetal TR's lose nothing when flowed on the head and not make any more power than an intake that imposes a severe penalty in flow. Flow just isn't the end all be all--especially when applied to the intake manifold. J.Rob
Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 06/01/14 10:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Impressive #'s. Big time port work to get 300 cfm from those heads. Nice combo. Torque curve nice and broad - and not too far up in to the rpm range.



Thanks guys. Yes the heads are worked extensively as is the intake manifold. I don't find the torque to be all that impressive. I tested at 4000 rpm and it produced 410-415 ft/lbs. However what is impressive is the little .507" net lift after .018" lash cam made even what it did. I was expecting much less to be honest maybe 485-500 hp max. J.Rob



What don't you like about the TQ...is it the curve or amount or both?

I love that cam, works so good in dirt track engines.
Posted By: Locomotion

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 06/01/14 11:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Raw air numbers really only tell part of the story, creating a charge in the plenum can more than offset "raw" port numbers...particulary when you consider any given intake valve is completely closed roughly 2/3'ds of the time. Not to mention solid fuel volume displaces about ~7.5% of that air in a carb'ed motor. So a raw 300 cf/minute can really only meter ~100 cf within the roughly just over 20 seconds of each minute it gets to do it. And for half of that 20 seconds (on a street cammed motor like this one, more like ~27-28 total in a high RPM race motor) the valve is on it's closing ramp. It's pretty amazing the A/F can get in there (let alone out) as well as it does.



This is exactly why I don't put a lot of stock in intake manifold flow numbers. I have seen 400+cfm heads with sheetmetal TR's lose nothing when flowed on the head and not make any more power than an intake that imposes a severe penalty in flow. Flow just isn't the end all be all--especially when applied to the intake manifold. J.Rob



Going another step from the dual plane that Streetwize suggested, if you weren't so happy with the torque numbers, have you considered a more conservative single plane, like a Holley Strip Dominator or M1 single plane and experiment with 4-hole, tapered and open spacers? I know the original Victor has a bigger plenum than the intakes I mentioned, so I would assume that the SV intake is even bigger.
Posted By: mshred

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 06/02/14 02:55 AM

Maybe off topic, but is the engine internal or external balance? I assume internal with the aftermarket steel crank, but thought I'd ask.

Nice numbers
Posted By: RAMM

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 06/02/14 05:50 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Impressive #'s. Big time port work to get 300 cfm from those heads. Nice combo. Torque curve nice and broad - and not too far up in to the rpm range.



Thanks guys. Yes the heads are worked extensively as is the intake manifold. I don't find the torque to be all that impressive. I tested at 4000 rpm and it produced 410-415 ft/lbs. However what is impressive is the little .507" net lift after .018" lash cam made even what it did. I was expecting much less to be honest maybe 485-500 hp max. J.Rob



What don't you like about the TQ...is it the curve or amount or both?

I love that cam, works so good in dirt track engines.



I guess I am a little dissatisfied with the amount I saw at 4000rpm followed by the steep rise to 5200 rpm. I figured the TQ would be a little broader considering the length of the runners of the intake manifold. J.Rob
Posted By: RAMM

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 06/02/14 05:50 AM

Quote:

Maybe off topic, but is the engine internal or external balance? I assume internal with the aftermarket steel crank, but thought I'd ask.

Nice numbers



Yes internal. J.Rob
Posted By: RAMM

Re: 360 Street/Strip Bruiser-Dyno results inside - 06/02/14 05:55 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Raw air numbers really only tell part of the story, creating a charge in the plenum can more than offset "raw" port numbers...particulary when you consider any given intake valve is completely closed roughly 2/3'ds of the time. Not to mention solid fuel volume displaces about ~7.5% of that air in a carb'ed motor. So a raw 300 cf/minute can really only meter ~100 cf within the roughly just over 20 seconds of each minute it gets to do it. And for half of that 20 seconds (on a street cammed motor like this one, more like ~27-28 total in a high RPM race motor) the valve is on it's closing ramp. It's pretty amazing the A/F can get in there (let alone out) as well as it does.



This is exactly why I don't put a lot of stock in intake manifold flow numbers. I have seen 400+cfm heads with sheetmetal TR's lose nothing when flowed on the head and not make any more power than an intake that imposes a severe penalty in flow. Flow just isn't the end all be all--especially when applied to the intake manifold. J.Rob



Going another step from the dual plane that Streetwize suggested, if you weren't so happy with the torque numbers, have you considered a more conservative single plane, like a Holley Strip Dominator or M1 single plane and experiment with 4-hole, tapered and open spacers? I know the original Victor has a bigger plenum than the intakes I mentioned, so I would assume that the SV intake is even bigger.



Was assembled with the parts I had on hand. If I had a Weiand X-Celerator I would have used it. That intake is a torque producer. I was very curious to see just how much of an RPM type 360 these parts would produce. Now I know. I think this engine would make a great street race type "catch up" engine. J.Rob
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