Moparts
9" Vs. Dana 60
Posted By: Jeremiah
9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 04:59 AM
I thought it would be informative to have a discussion looking at the various aspects of these rear differentials for a drag car. I figure it basically comes down to weight and cost. Can a CM, back-braced 9" housing with 35 spline axles and your choice of carrier (spool, power lock, etc.) be bought at a comparable cost as, for example, a Strange S60?
I am getting ready to put a new rear under my Charger and was pretty set on a Dana 60 for simplicity's sake until a thread recently made me consider a 9". I am pretty confident that a spruced up 35 spline power lock in a S60 can live in a moderately heavy (say 3400-3600 lb car) around the 10.0-ish 1/4 mile ET.
Do any of you guys running 9" rears in door cars care to chime in? How about those heavy E and B body cars running into the high 9's with a Dana? Are you running a spool? What kind of axles? Any info you have to contribute would be greatly appreciated.
For laughs let's say the high side of the budget sans brakes is $3K.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 05:11 AM
I have about $1500 into my 9" with good parts and
axles(there are some bigger dollar parts over what
I have in mine) but I bought the housing cheap and
shortened it and back braced it myself.. I didnt go
with a spool but spent more on a posi style unit but
a decent one.. thats new gears and bearing through out
Posted By: Jeremiah
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 05:49 AM
That is not bad Mr P. I have had about the same or a little less into the Dana 60's we have built from truck housings depending on the axles, cover, etc. I love the look of a Dana 60 under a vintage Mopar but just had to ask afters searching and reading some of the old threads on 9" vs 8.75. Did you use a CM housing and back brace?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 06:05 AM
Quote:
That is not bad Mr P. I have had about the same or a little less into the Dana 60's we have built from truck housings depending on the axles, cover, etc. I love the look of a Dana 60 under a vintage Mopar but just had to ask afters searching and reading some of the old threads on 9" vs 8.75. Did you use a CM housing and back brace?
No its just the stock mild steel.. if I ever needed
a CM housing I would buy one... but I dont need it..
I never cared for the dana 60 due to not being able
to back brace it... yeah you can get the thick truck
housings with the 3/8" thick tubes but they are heavy...
even with that and enough torque and a heavy car it
can bend those tubes(mild steel)... I've seen a couple
of danas that had a back brace with a bolt on section
over the cover area.. but that HAD to have a fuel
cell(no way would it fit in with a stock tank)....
this is JMO on the dana
Posted By: Jeremiah
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 06:23 AM
My car has a fuel cell so no problem there. I am thinking a CM .250 tube Currie housing with an aluminum center section and bearing retainer would be cool. The only thing I'd have to change would be my beloved 10" rear drum brakes.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 06:41 AM
Quote:
My car has a fuel cell so no problem there. I am thinking a CM .250 tube Currie housing with an aluminum center section and bearing retainer would be cool. The only thing I'd have to change would be my beloved 10" rear drum brakes.
No clue to what that would cost when its done and
in the car... housing, center section, spool, gears,
bearing, axles and a new drive shaft... then your brakes..
I bought drum brakes for my 9" from Dr Diff along
with his axles... I wanted drum for the hold power
on the starting line since mine is a foot brake car
Posted By: GTX MATT
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 07:11 AM
Posted By: Jeremiah
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 07:19 AM
Quote:
Quote:
My car has a fuel cell so no problem there. I am thinking a CM .250 tube Currie housing with an aluminum center section and bearing retainer would be cool. The only thing I'd have to change would be my beloved 10" rear drum brakes.
No clue to what that would cost when its done and
in the car... housing, center section, spool, gears,
bearing, axles and a new drive shaft... then your brakes..
I bought drum brakes for my 9" from Dr Diff along
with his axles... I wanted drum for the hold power
on the starting line since mine is a foot brake car
Yeah...I don;t really need the drums for launch on the stick car. I have valve float for that. 
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 07:29 AM
Yeah...I don;t really need the drums for launch on the stick car. I have valve float for that.
I have a 5000 stall 8" conv but I'm hoping I can get
3000-3500 rpm at the line... on my P-Body I couldnt
foot brake it at all.. if I went above about 2200 rpms
it would push through the lights and just spin.. it
wouldnt plant the tires.. hoping the Rampage will
plant them with 3000 rpm on the ladder bars
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 07:46 AM
Depends on your application.
I like S-60 rears for high torque, leaf spring equipped street/strip cars.
9" traction differentials are not particularly strong because clearance issues with the pocket bearing at the end of the pinion dictates small moving parts inside the carrier. In contrast, Dana 60 traction differentials are much more robust.
Due to the sheet-metal construction, 9" rears require a back brace for housing strength. This does not jive cleanly with leaf spring perches and shocks.
Because the tubes insert several inches into a machined casting, a back brace is not as critical on an S-60 housing.
The best thing is, I sell a new BOLT-IN, 35 spline S-60 rear with heavy duty S-Trac differential for $2175
Posted By: Jeremiah
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 08:00 AM
Quote:
Depends on your application.
I like S-60 rears for high torque, leaf spring equipped street/strip cars.
9" traction differentials are not particularly strong because clearance issues with the pocket bearing at the end of the pinion dictates small moving parts inside the carrier. In contrast, Dana 60 traction differentials are much more robust.
Due to the sheet-metal construction, 9" rears require a back brace for housing strength. This does not jive cleanly with leaf spring perches and shocks.
Because the tubes insert several inches into a machined casting, a back brace is not as critical on an S-60 housing.
The best thing is, I sell a new BOLT-IN, 35 spline S-60 rear with heavy duty S-Trac differential for $2175
The shocks are one thing that had me wondering. Funny thing you were my next call Dr Diff. Thanks for sharing your insight.
Posted By: Tig
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 08:56 AM
Dana 60, 4:10's, 4 pinion suregrip(?), Moser 35 spline axles. It's been in since 2001 behind a 440, 528, 572 and next a 655.
HTH's
Posted By: Wv68charger
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 10:31 AM
We run a none back braced 9 inch 35 spline with a spool in our 3400lb Charger running 9.6X's leaving at 4600 with a trans brake with a 31x14 tire.
Currently the car is going to modifications to run faster so we did jump up to 40 spline and a back brace.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 10:37 AM
Monte covered this in the other thread:
ANYTHING.......CAN be broken, that is a fact. But it is also a fact that a 9" can be built into a MUCH stronger drop out style rear than an 8.75, as witnessed by the fact being that is the rear of choice under 99% of high HP race cars on the planet. The fact that ANY of those parts may or may not be an original Ford part is a moot point. It is a Ford design.....it's a 9" Ford.
The reason a DANA holds up better than an 8.75 is just because of the massive size and strength of the center section itself. The case will not flex near as much in the pinion area, even without the support bearing of the 9".
While the center strength of the DANA is a plus, its rear load design is a weakness. It is IMPOSSIBLE to properly brace the housing itself, to keep IT from flexing and bending the axle tubes. If the tubes have any length to them, they WILL bend and you can't stop it.
Any of this has ZERO to do with if you are a TRUE Mopar guy or not, it has to do with putting the proper part under your car to do what YOU need to do and it last.
Radials are HARD on parts. The tire is hooked or its not. There is no in between. You CAN'T spin or slip a radial and it still go down like a slick. A Radial DEAD HOOKS and THAT is hard on parts with a lot of power. You will bend or break EVERYTHING in the drive line if it is not beefy enough.
In our own radial car, that weighed about 2900lbs, we had a VERY well built Moser mild steel housing, that was heavily braced. The car was 60 footing in the high teens to low 20 at that time. We bent the housing 3 times. When the car got hard to push, we knew the tubes were bent. It would bend them out at the ends. Have seen it bent as much as an inch per side. Once you got the axles out, they did NOT go back in. We now have a chromoly housing, with .250 wall chromoly tubes and it is braced and built like you would a housing in a Pro-Mod. The car now goes 1.0 60fts at 2700lbs and we have NOT bent that housing. We have 40 spline gun drilled axles, a pro series spool, pro gears and both a Mark Williams or a Strange thru bolt case, depending on what gear we run. Expensive parts......yes..........but we have NEVER broken a gear or anything rear end related.
NOW........does EVERYBODY need the parts we have, of course not. What YOU need, depends on what you plan to do. My issue is with the constant "put a Dana under it" chatter every time this subject comes up. While a great rear for some applications, for others it is DEAD WRONG. And for a 3000lb radial car, that has the potential to go low 5s, like the two cars Bill is talking about. A DANA is the WRONG choice..........period.
Just because you broke an 8.75 in your 9 or 10 second car and "fixed" it with a Dana, does NOT mean that is what everybody needs to do. The proper parts are application specific
Monte
Posted By: justinp61
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 02:07 PM
Application, application, application, it all depends on the application. The Dana in my Dart is all I'll ever need. Complete minus brakes it was $1950 shipped from Strange. A CM housing with no ends is over $1200.
Quote:
Application, application, application, it all depends on the application. The Dana in my Dart is all I'll ever need. Complete minus brakes it was $1950 shipped from Strange. A CM housing with no ends is over $1200.
I agree ,
But,, I'm not a fan of running 9" Ford's over the 8 3/4 wr have ran deep in the 9 s with basic stock gears in an 83/4 with no issue's. But some.have I'm sure it has to do with leaving at such high rpm s something going to break!
A Dana maybe heavier but it is.not robbing as.much hp as those.of the 9" and 8 3/4 do so even tho you change to it most cars do not lose et. Some may gain .
Posted By: Leon441
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 02:51 PM
Some of the info that keeps getting reposted as gospel is just not so in my own findings.
There are reasons to run either rear. Most are buried in the misinformation posted on here. I have ran a Dana 60 for 20 years. Never bent the housing and it has no brace. I use a lw cover with no links to a brace. When the tubes are welded to the center housing it makes a very strong unit.
The reason to not run a Dana 60 is gear choice when needing a pro gear. You are limited with 4.10 and whatever lower gear may be on a shelf somewhere.
9" is plentiful with any gear imaginable. A lower pinion with more mesh. You may or may not want this.
A heavy leaf spring car never seeing over 1000 LD ft of torquefrom the crank will do awesome with a Dana.
Posted By: justinp61
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 03:02 PM
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Application, application, application, it all depends on the application. The Dana in my Dart is all I'll ever need. Complete minus brakes it was $1950 shipped from Strange. A CM housing with no ends is over $1200.
I agree ,
But,, I'm not a fan of running 9" Ford's over the 8 3/4 wr have ran deep in the 9 s with basic stock gears in an 83/4 with no issue's. But some.have I'm sure it has to do with leaving at such high rpm s something going to break!
A Dana maybe heavier but it is.not robbing as.much hp as those.of the 9" and 8 3/4 do so even tho you change to it most cars do not lose et. Some may gain .
Several guys have got by running an 8 3/4, I didn't. Mine broke the second time my 408 hooked up. It had maybe 30 7.30 1/8 mile passes and 1000 street miles behind my 340. The Dana is worth the $$ for the piece of mind.
Posted By: rickseeman
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 03:32 PM
It's a Mopar. Put a Dana under it.
Posted By: JERICOGTX
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 03:38 PM
Quote:
It's a Mopar. Put a Dana under it.
Since when is a Dana a Mopar part? Both my Dana's came out of 1 ton Ford trucks. If I was starting from scratch I would put a 9" under the car to save weight.
Jeff
Posted By: BobR
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 03:51 PM
Quote:
Quote:
It's a Mopar. Put a Dana under it.
Since when is a Dana a Mopar part? Both my Dana's came out of 1 ton Ford trucks. If I was starting from scratch I would put a 9" under the car to save weight.
Jeff
And that just about sums it up. Monte's post was right on as well.
Posted By: cudaman1969
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 03:55 PM
You can front brace a Dana, but the shorter it gets the stronger it gets which you have to do for bigger slicks(more hooking ability). I guess the other item is how far out the bars or springs are at the fulcrum point, most are buildin them now on the inside of the tubs close to tires. The only Dana I saw bent was a heavy 4 speed car that wasn't welded around tubes to housing. But I agree the 9 inch is preferred because of the gear avaliblity and easy to change at the track. If your are running some type of class that's fine but we are just bracket racers in the end so why, trick of the week? Put a dana in it then check it every ten years and worry about all the other stuff that matters. This is my opinion and does not reflect the managements.
Posted By: Leon441
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 04:26 PM
You can spin the Mopar part bs to no end. The 9" rears I see have no Ford parts. If you choose to run a torqueflite or 833 for the same reason you would probable want to run a dana.
If you are building a serious et car choose a 9. Unless you desire less drag and a higher pinion.
The guys who usually ask the question as to what they should run actually should choose the Dana 60. 9-11 second full body cars with a well prepped Dana will never hurt it. Some rare cases where the guy wants to slam the car on the ground with big wheels and tires should choose the 9 to keep the driveshaft out of the tunnel.
Call it a pet peeve just get tired of the everybody should run a 9" just because someone else said so.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 05:27 PM
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Application, application, application, it all depends on the application. The Dana in my Dart is all I'll ever need. Complete minus brakes it was $1950 shipped from Strange. A CM housing with no ends is over $1200.
I agree ,
But,, I'm not a fan of running 9" Ford's over the 8 3/4 wr have ran deep in the 9 s with basic stock gears in an 83/4 with no issue's. But some.have I'm sure it has to do with leaving at such high rpm s something going to break!
A Dana maybe heavier but it is.not robbing as.much hp as those.of the 9" and 8 3/4 do so even tho you change to it most cars do not lose et. Some may gain .
Several guys have got by running an 8 3/4, I didn't. Mine broke the second time my 408 hooked up. It had maybe 30 7.30 1/8 mile passes and 1000 street miles behind my 340. The Dana is worth the $$ for the piece of mind.
No disrespect but power didn`t break it cos I`m pretty sure I`m making more than you and mine`s fine so far w/stock caps BUT set up properly............. 
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 05:30 PM
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Application, application, application, it all depends on the application. The Dana in my Dart is all I'll ever need. Complete minus brakes it was $1950 shipped from Strange. A CM housing with no ends is over $1200.
I agree ,
But,, I'm not a fan of running 9" Ford's over the 8 3/4 wr have ran deep in the 9 s with basic stock gears in an 83/4 with no issue's. But some.have I'm sure it has to do with leaving at such high rpm s something going to break!
A Dana maybe heavier but it is.not robbing as.much hp as those.of the 9" and 8 3/4 do so even tho you change to it most cars do not lose et. Some may gain .
Several guys have got by running an 8 3/4, I didn't. Mine broke the second time my 408 hooked up. It had maybe 30 7.30 1/8 mile passes and 1000 street miles behind my 340. The Dana is worth the $$ for the piece of mind.
No disrespect but power didn`t break it cos I`m pretty sure I`m making more than you and mine`s fine so far w/stock caps BUT set up properly.............
it has nothing to do with set up 
Monte has explained countless times the down side of the 83/4.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 05:33 PM
Ya but not a 7.30 1/8 th mile car...............
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 05:38 PM
Quote:
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Application, application, application, it all depends on the application. The Dana in my Dart is all I'll ever need. Complete minus brakes it was $1950 shipped from Strange. A CM housing with no ends is over $1200.
I agree ,
But,, I'm not a fan of running 9" Ford's over the 8 3/4 wr have ran deep in the 9 s with basic stock gears in an 83/4 with no issue's. But some.have I'm sure it has to do with leaving at such high rpm s something going to break!
A Dana maybe heavier but it is.not robbing as.much hp as those.of the 9" and 8 3/4 do so even tho you change to it most cars do not lose et. Some may gain .
Several guys have got by running an 8 3/4, I didn't. Mine broke the second time my 408 hooked up. It had maybe 30 7.30 1/8 mile passes and 1000 street miles behind my 340. The Dana is worth the $$ for the piece of mind.
No disrespect but power didn`t break it cos I`m pretty sure I`m making more than you and mine`s fine so far w/stock caps BUT set up properly.............
it has nothing to do with set up Monte has explained countless times the down side of the 83/4.
Yes.. like Monty said.. weight creates more friction/load
on the tires and that creates more deflection on the
pinion to try and flex out of the ring gear
Posted By: cudaman1969
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 05:40 PM
Thumper, great car but I think you'rs is flexing to absorb the shock load kinda like falling on a bed or the floor, whitch one more likely to break something?
Posted By: justinp61
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 05:41 PM
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Application, application, application, it all depends on the application. The Dana in my Dart is all I'll ever need. Complete minus brakes it was $1950 shipped from Strange. A CM housing with no ends is over $1200.
I agree ,
But,, I'm not a fan of running 9" Ford's over the 8 3/4 wr have ran deep in the 9 s with basic stock gears in an 83/4 with no issue's. But some.have I'm sure it has to do with leaving at such high rpm s something going to break!
A Dana maybe heavier but it is.not robbing as.much hp as those.of the 9" and 8 3/4 do so even tho you change to it most cars do not lose et. Some may gain .
Several guys have got by running an 8 3/4, I didn't. Mine broke the second time my 408 hooked up. It had maybe 30 7.30 1/8 mile passes and 1000 street miles behind my 340. The Dana is worth the $$ for the piece of mind.
No disrespect but power didn`t break it cos I`m pretty sure I`m making more than you and mine`s fine so far w/stock caps BUT set up properly.............
I know you're making way more power than I am. It made no noise on the highway, no vibration and the wear pattern was good. Maybe I just got a bad set of gears. To ME it was not worth taking the chance again, so I fixed and sold it. The Dana is not much heavier and I have peace of mind now. I know a Dana is not a fix all end all and may not be right for everyone, but it's right for me now.
BTW Thumper, please explain "set up properly".
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 05:42 PM
Quote:
Ya but not a 7.30 1/8 th mile car...............
still has nothing to with set up, we ran for over a year with a 9" slick and had 0 problems. put an 11.5 slick on it and boom first pass and only running a little faster than him. there is a lot more to it than set up. you are not the only one on the planet that can set up a rear. put them slicks on and hook for us
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 05:44 PM
Quote:
Thumper, great car but I think you'rs is flexing to absorb the shock load kinda like falling on a bed or the floor, whitch one more likely to break something?
and not dead hooking with dot tires
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 05:46 PM
Quote:
Thumper, great car but I think you'rs is flexing to absorb the shock load kinda like falling on a bed or the floor, whitch one more likely to break something?
Maybe but it`s back braced and I did twist one and roll the perches before they were fully welded on. Justin, again we hear all of these stories of broken 8 3/4`s in slower cars then myself and other way faster guys make em live........... 
Posted By: justinp61
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 05:48 PM
Quote:
Ya but not a 7.30 1/8 th mile car...............
It runs 6.50's-70's with the 408, 1.38 60' at 3260#. Not up to your standards I know, but it's just a pump gas small block.
Posted By: Eric
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 05:49 PM
Posted By: cudaman1969
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 05:54 PM
Quote:
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Thumper, great car but I think you'rs is flexing to absorb the shock load kinda like falling on a bed or the floor, whitch one more likely to break something?
Maybe but it`s back braced and I did twist one and roll the perches before they were fully welded on. Justin, again we hear all of these stories of broken 8 3/4`s in slower cars then myself and other way faster guys make em live...........
You have learned to make it live somehow mopower to you, live long and prosper
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/19/14 06:31 PM
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Thumper, great car but I think you'rs is flexing to absorb the shock load kinda like falling on a bed or the floor, whitch one more likely to break something?
Maybe but it`s back braced and I did twist one and roll the perches before they were fully welded on. Justin, again we hear all of these stories of broken 8 3/4`s in slower cars then myself and other way faster guys make em live...........
You have learned to make it live somehow mopower to you, live long and prosper
Thankxxx.............I think! 
We've had a Dana in some fairly powerful and heavy cars without issue.
Starting from scratch, I wouldn't waste the money on a 9in housing, but instead go right to a fabricated deal. The stock 9in is no big deal. It only becomes the "rear of choice" when it's heavily supported aftermarket is exploited and in my opinion, that includes a huge selection of housings.
You can brace a 9in housing, both inside and out, but if you are starting with nothing.....why bother??? Just get one of the good 8 million fabricated housings and fill it with the good stuff.
An S-60 is less expensive than a really good 9in and will last just fine in numerous combinations and it's slightly more efficient albeit somewhat heavier depending on the set-up.
Posted By: astjp2
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/20/14 02:01 AM
Why dick around with either and run the 70, its a 10.5" ring gear and has the same outer dimensions as a 60. I found one that has 1/2" thick 3.5" diameter tubes that weighed 58# when cut down to size. The 9" pinion is smaller than a dana 44, it only has a 3rd bearing to reduce flex. Nines are just puny compared to a real axle..Tim
Posted By: EchoSixMike
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/20/14 03:05 AM
My '9 inch Ford' hasn't got one Ford part in it. It's all Strange or custom fabrication. S/F.....Ken M
Posted By: justinp61
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/20/14 04:24 AM
Quote:
My '9 inch Ford' hasn't got one Ford part in it. It's all Strange or custom fabrication. S/F.....Ken M
I'd say my S-60 is the same way. Probably nothing Dana but the design and Strange even changed that by adding adjusters on the sides.
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/20/14 06:42 AM
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Why dick around with either and run the 70, its a 10.5" ring gear and has the same outer dimensions as a 60. I found one that has 1/2" thick 3.5" diameter tubes that weighed 58# when cut down to size. The 9" pinion is smaller than a dana 44, it only has a 3rd bearing to reduce flex. Nines are just puny compared to a real axle..Tim
Yep, a 9" Ford rear is a POS. That's why it is under 99% of the FAST race cars on the planet 
Leon, you can brag about never bending your Dana housing all you want. But if you put a drag radial on that car you will bend it like a pretzel. And it has NOTHING to do with the stronger center part of the housing, it has to do with the UNBRACED tubes. What, you think the mild steel YOUR tubes are made of is magic compared to other types of mild steel
Mopar guys ALWAYS get their freaking panties in a wad if somebody disses the MIGHTY Dana.........which is a company by the way, that is NOT and NEVER was a part of Chrysler.
Again it is all about the intended application. as to which diff you need. Me personally, I don't care if it came from a Mopar, a Chevy, a Ford, a Nash or a damn VW, I just want parts that WORK.
Now again, does EVERY car on the planet need a Ford, or even a DANA rear..........the answer is NO. But for the type cars I personally work with, the answer is YES on the Ford because it is the ONLY one that WORKS.
The stuff people say before they think, just simply amazes me.
Monte
Posted By: justinp61
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/20/14 02:58 PM
BTW Monty, the guys got the problem with the Dominator EFI figured out. Thanks
Posted By: dragram440
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/20/14 03:15 PM
I am running a 8 3/4 and has been good for about 100 passes, Not a real fast car but its heavy and on drag radials. This stroked big block seems to make some pretty good torque down low. I have a truck Dana sitting in my garage but after going back and forth on rear ends I think I will end up with a 9" if this old 8 3/4 decides to go. There is more gear choices for the 9" and just a lot more aftermarket parts available. The other thing is that 60 is a heavy chunk of steel. Who on here doesnt want to save some weight?
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/20/14 03:25 PM
Hopefully mine lives a little longer. It's running on borrowed time going 1.31 60 fts on a dead hooking drag radial at 3200 lbs.
Posted By: an8sec70cuda
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/20/14 04:11 PM
I have a Moser Dana 60 under my hemicuda. Put it in there in 2003 after grenading the 8.75 running mid 10s at 3700 lbs. The car ran mid 9s starting in 2006 and now it's a little faster...would like to see 8s soon.
I've had the rear cover off once...last fall. Just to change the gear oil b/c I realized it had been 10 years.
My car is over 3800 lbs, drag radials, leaf springs, footbraking, etc.
Back in '03 I think I paid about $1800 for the Moser 60. 35 spline axles, spool, 4.10 gear.
The dana gets the nod for my cars for cost versus strength. I built a dana 60 for my dad's '69 road runner. Less than a grand in the whole thing...35 spline axles, powerlock diff, 1350 yoke, etc. Built it from a junkyard truck rear.
If I was starting from scratch and building a FAST car, I'd go w/ a 9". Less weight, VERY strong, and any gear ratio imaginable is available. I would start w/ an aftermarket fabbed housing and big bolt through aluminum case. It wouldn't be cheap, but you'd have one heck of a rear.
Posted By: polyspheric
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/20/14 05:09 PM
I don't have a good mental picture of the failure points in a 60.
Can someone explain why the tubes can't be braced?
Posted By: dogdays
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/20/14 06:57 PM
I'd guess it's because a back brace would get in the way of changing gears.....
Nothing says one couldn't front-brace it, though.
R.
Posted By: mopar65
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/20/14 07:01 PM
sense we are talking about rearends. a guy i work with is big into dirt track cars and was trying to talk me into putting a full floating 9 inch under my dart after i told him i blew my 8-3/4. so seeing how i have never messed with one can you even run a full floater in a race car or they just for circle track cars etc? thanks mopar65
Posted By: justinp61
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/20/14 08:03 PM
A guy that races a Colt at one of the near by drag strips runs a 9" floater. I asked why several years ago and he told me if he broke an axle he didn't want to lose a tire and tear the car up.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/20/14 10:57 PM
Quote:
A guy that races a Colt at one of the near by drag strips runs a 9" floater. I asked why several years ago and he told me if he broke an axle he didn't want to lose a tire and tear the car up.
you wont loose a tire with a regular 9" they are bolted to the flange
Posted By: dogdays
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/20/14 11:13 PM
Full floating means the hub is supported by the axle housing. The axle shaft only transmits torque from the differential to the hub.
IMHO, there's no reason not to run a full floating rear end on the street other than cost.
R.
Posted By: justinp61
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/21/14 05:16 AM
Quote:
Quote:
A guy that races a Colt at one of the near by drag strips runs a 9" floater. I asked why several years ago and he told me if he broke an axle he didn't want to lose a tire and tear the car up.
you wont loose a tire with a regular 9" they are bolted to the flange
Tell that to my buddy who broke an axle at the bearing on his Omni/Charger and destroyed the rear quarter.
Posted By: EchoSixMike
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/21/14 06:50 AM
Every commercial truck on the road is floater axle; it's the better way to do it. S/F.....Ken M
Posted By: Mcode69
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/21/14 09:32 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A guy that races a Colt at one of the near by drag strips runs a 9" floater. I asked why several years ago and he told me if he broke an axle he didn't want to lose a tire and tear the car up.
you wont loose a tire with a regular 9" they are bolted to the flange
Tell that to my buddy who broke an axle at the bearing on his Omni/Charger and destroyed the rear quarter.
Exactly, I've personally seen multiple 9"s break axles outside the bearing. And another thing, why is it at every drag meeting, when you walk around the pits sooner or later you will see it, laying on the grass a 9" pinion still attatched to the drive shaft?????
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/21/14 11:10 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A guy that races a Colt at one of the near by drag strips runs a 9" floater. I asked why several years ago and he told me if he broke an axle he didn't want to lose a tire and tear the car up.
you wont loose a tire with a regular 9" they are bolted to the flange
Tell that to my buddy who broke an axle at the bearing on his Omni/Charger and destroyed the rear quarter.
Exactly, I've personally seen multiple 9"s break axles outside the bearing. And another thing, why is it at every drag meeting, when you walk around the pits sooner or later you will see it, laying on the grass a 9" pinion still attatched to the drive shaft?????
in all my years of racing I have never seen one break on the outside.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/21/14 11:11 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A guy that races a Colt at one of the near by drag strips runs a 9" floater. I asked why several years ago and he told me if he broke an axle he didn't want to lose a tire and tear the car up.
you wont loose a tire with a regular 9" they are bolted to the flange
Tell that to my buddy who broke an axle at the bearing on his Omni/Charger and destroyed the rear quarter.
Exactly, I've personally seen multiple 9"s break axles outside the bearing. And another thing, why is it at every drag meeting, when you walk around the pits sooner or later you will see it, laying on the grass a 9" pinion still attatched to the drive shaft?????
probably stock parts....
Posted By: dvw
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/21/14 12:29 PM
probably stock parts....
There's the deal right there. A stock Dana will live a lot of places a stock 9" won't. Once everything is fortified with high end center sections and fabbed housings it's a different story.
Doug
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/21/14 12:44 PM
Quote:
probably stock parts....
There's the deal right there. A stock Dana will live a lot of places a stock 9" won't. Once everything is fortified with high end center sections and fabbed housings it's a different story.
Doug
I don't know how many times we have to say that...
Posted By: justinp61
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/21/14 08:42 PM
Quote:
probably stock parts....
There's the deal right there. A stock Dana will live a lot of places a stock 9" won't. Once everything is fortified with high end center sections and fabbed housings it's a different story.
Doug
In stock form the 9" is no better than a 8 3/4 IMO. I broke two of them in an anemic 79 Ford F-150, no it didn't have giant tires either. I've always said that if the 9" as it came from the factory was the greatest Ford wouldn't have used a Dana in their 3/4 and 1 ton trucks and vans. With all the aftermarket support it has it's a great rear. Application, application, application .
BTW Quicktree, the axle that broke on the Omni/Charger was either a Moser or Strange, I don't remember which now.
Posted By: STEFF
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/21/14 09:09 PM
Quote:
In stock form the 9" is no better than a 8 3/4 IMO. I broke two of them in an anemic 79 Ford F-150, no it didn't have giant tires either. I've always said that if the 9" as it came from the factory was the greatest Ford wouldn't have used a Dana in their 3/4 and 1 ton trucks and vans. With all the aftermarket support it has it's a great rear. Application, application, application .
BTW Quicktree, the axle that broke on the Omni/Charger was either a Moser or Strange, I don't remember which now.
There was NO mention of stock part survivability for either rear in the OP's question, so why is it even in the conversation?
I have a 9" in my Road Runner. I cut and backbraced a junk yard housing, then put together a new center section using a new Strange iron center, Detroit Locker, etc... all good parts. Most new and some barely used, I have about a Grand in the center section. Im also using new Moser Axles. All in total, I have about $1800 into it.
I went with the 9" because I like the way the look, all backbraced etc.... also to have ease of gear change........one center for track, one for street.
Posted By: polyspheric
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/21/14 09:49 PM
Thanks.
How substantial is the Dana housing where the cover bolts enter, and what size are they? (I'm sure some here will anticipate where I'm going with this).
If the housing thickness is sufficient as an "anchor" point, the cover could be stiffened a great deal by simply adding an "X" brace across the dome (landing in between several bolts). This should be as tall (standing away from the cover) as practical. It serves as the attachment point for 2 spans (1" 4130 tube) each ending on a big adjustable clevis on either end (like a 4-link). The cover's new addition and the housing axle ends have the mating clevis shapes.
When assembled, the spans pull the axle tubes backward toward the landing spot on the cover to whatever tension you want on the clevises. The taller the X brace the more leverage the clevises have.
To service the gears, back off on both clevises a few turns, and remove the pins holding the inner spans to the cover; rotate them down and out of your way (or remove completely if they're in the way).
The cover now comes off as normally.
Service complete: attach the cover, tighten the clevises and re-install the pins through the spans.
Posted By: 68hemiss
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/23/14 04:47 AM
Guys, many of you have more experience with these rears than I but I wanted to bring up a couple of points. I was at a seminar once that DTS put on and they mentioned that Dana axle tubes were not very strong - thin wall mild steel and some people were having problems bending them -They had a process where they would mill out the tube welds in the case and remove the stock tubes and replace them with chrome moly thicker wall tubes and weld them back to the case in the stock locations as well as a full weld where the tubes exit the case.
I would think that the length of the tubes as well as where the suspension components (leaf springs, ladder bars, ect...) attach also would play into the bending of the axles. A shorter rear would be stiffer.
I also am tired of hearing that a 9" is the only way to go especially on street & street/strip cars. My argument is that you can build a Dana that is basicly trouble free for a car up to the 9 sec zone with mostly the parts it came with - add a steel cap, gear and axles and you are ready to go. When building a 9" Ford you need to replace almost everything in the 3rd member, case, pinion support, ect... as well as brace the housing - Is it stronger and lighter than a Dana, Yes, but also more expensive for this type of car. Unless you are running a class car, an extreme HP car or possibly a really fast car on Drag Radials, I don't see the need to HAVE to run a 9"
Just my 2 cents
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: 9" Vs. Dana 60 - 05/23/14 05:02 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A guy that races a Colt at one of the near by drag strips runs a 9" floater. I asked why several years ago and he told me if he broke an axle he didn't want to lose a tire and tear the car up.
you wont loose a tire with a regular 9" they are bolted to the flange
Tell that to my buddy who broke an axle at the bearing on his Omni/Charger and destroyed the rear quarter.
Exactly, I've personally seen multiple 9"s break axles outside the bearing. And another thing, why is it at every drag meeting, when you walk around the pits sooner or later you will see it, laying on the grass a 9" pinion still attatched to the drive shaft?????
The pinion with driveshaft attached is because the guy did NOT buy a decent pinion support, which is a MUST for a Ford rear.
You DO realize a Ford has a flanged axle, same as a Dana, an 8.75 and about every other rear axle assy on the planet. So what exactly would it be about a Ford that makes this problem more common on them, than any other flanged axle?..........Now usually what causes ANY flanged axle to break at the bearing, is because some insist on welding the bearing retainer sleeve on instead of just pressing it on. Welding on an axle puts a stress point in it right there. If one breaks THAT far out, just the bearing retainer flange is likely NOT strong enough to keep the wheel under the car, regardless of what type rear it is.
Monte
Well... 9" here..
3000# and runs in the 8's..
Never have broke any parts..
Bent the housing when the car wrecked..
It started out as a Nodular 9" with a Daytona pinion support and back braced.. Moly tubes..
It now has a bolt thru Moser aluminum case, and has always had 35 spline M/W axles..
And always has had street gears too..
Never have broke a set of those..
But we don't do what Monte does either..
It's still a 900+ hp deal @ 3000#..
Monte didn't say everyone needed a 9".. A Dana is just as good for some things, and not as good for others..
Gear selection and simplicity makes the 9" a no brainer for me..
Chris..
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