Payouts are going downhill.

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Bottom line is this. If you say you race for money and you're not driving a BBC dragster, you're lying.

Respect.

I disagree with that.. don't get me wrong that the cheaper way to go. but I know a lot of people who don't run dragsters and are great at big money races. But I do agree with the more to play the more you pay.. that's what you have to do from a track operator and promoters perspective.. the biggest thing that kills me about a lot of people is that they don't see a race track/promoting as a business.

I agree the door-cars are just as good as the dragsters,so with that being said take your door-cars to the track and race.Don't go are not go there because of the dragsters.And don't go there after saying all week you are not Skeered to run a dragster and the 1st thing that comes out of your mouth is "Its Not Fair For The Door-Cars To Have To Run Against The Dragsters Because they Have an Advantage" This is for everyone and not directed at kissmyaspen.We all built our cars to Race didn't we? We have 3 door-cars & 2 dragsters,does that not tell everyone something. We Best all start enjoying our Race-Cars while we are still allowed to own Race-Cars.Most Cities now don't even want Race-Cars in the City Limits,the small Town I live in will only allow you to have a Race-Car in the City limits if it is in a fully enclosed building.
If we set back and make excuse's for the reason we do not race the Purse for the Races will not only keep going down hill but will Stop when there is no more Races run.

That's funny that you say not directed to me.. because if you was in ohio you would know im not afraid of dragsters.

We are not that far from each other I'm willing to put up some $$$ and put a Dial In on them or do a Heads Up race anytime for Big $$$.Try my BBC Dragster,and to be honest I have won more race with my Red Big Block Mopar dragster.But its been sold and I now have a brand new dragster as well as my 2012 dragster now lets see if you are afraid of dragster or not!

Posted By: B3422W5

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/13/14 04:49 AM

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Sorry but I have to laugh when I read posts like this. Are you really into drag racing for the money? MOPAR races are put on by MOPAR lovers at tracks they rent, rain or shine. Out of the entry monies and some sponsor money they pay rent, advertising, sometimes food, bands, round money, finalist money, and who knows what else. These guys aren't rich enough to own tracks so they rent them for the weekend. I know it cost 1000 dollars to prep the track surface before a single car makes a pass. Add insurance, taxes, ambulance coverage, payroll, and probably 50 other things I'm forgetting. The choice is yours to make. You can go and have fun with other MOPAR lovers, stay home and cut the grass, or maybe you are capable of putting a race together with big payouts. If you do don't forget to advertise and have a personalitUy people like.

Pat( the OP) is one of the nicest people I have met in my entire life. I think most anybody who knows him would say the same thing. Him and his wife are first class folks.
He also isn't wealthy, and fortunately for him is an outstanding racer who is a threat to win any race he enters. When finances dictate you can only make it to certain races , it at that point becomes a best bang for the buck type of thing , when you are one of a handful of guys who expect to win every time you enter a race.
Wish I was that good, most of us aren't. But looking at it financially in this day and age isn't a bad thing, it just the reality of the economic times and knowing you have to be selective where you spend your money racing.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/13/14 04:56 AM

Another thing to consider is it takes time for a program to grow but in all honesty entry fees are a very small piece of the puzzle. I can't afford to attend a Mopar race any distance from me and still afford to race a weekly bracket program. Its one or the other for me so I may hit one Mopar race a year. Travel costs eat up a budget real quick.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/13/14 08:21 AM

Regardless of how good you are, you certainly get put on the trailer at more races than you go to the finals. So the "it doesn't pay enough" argument has never made much sense to me. Even if the race pays less to win than you would like.........that's probably more than it will make sitting in the shop.......just my thoughts.

This is a VERY common statement I hear from heads-up guys. They spend close to 100k to build a car and then complain the races "don't pay enough" to go........really??? So my next question is usually "exactly how many BIG races have you ever won"........the answer is usually none, so then I tell them that it doesn't matter what it pays then..........LOL!!!

Monte

Posted By: slantzilla

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/13/14 08:43 AM

Pretty sure Pat has won some big money races.

Posted By: His and Her 69's

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/13/14 09:09 AM

And I am SURE Pat has spent a lot more then he has won racing. Pat is a Great person and I have talked to him at the track before. We all have spent more then we will ever get in return building, maintaining, and Enjoying our cars. It is Good to be able to race for a Good payout but that isn't my #1 concern.
I look for a Good surface, Safe, and Nice track and then all the other stuff comes next. Total cost to attend, entry, payout, gambler races, and friends attending the race.

If it isn't enjoyable then it is just like going to your inlaws. LOL
David

Posted By: Kevins493

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/13/14 12:29 PM

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Regardless of how good you are, you certainly get put on the trailer at more races than you go to the finals. So the "it doesn't pay enough" argument has never made much sense to me. Even if the race pays less to win than you would like.........that's probably more than it will make sitting in the shop.......just my thoughts.

This is a VERY common statement I hear from heads-up guys. They spend close to 100k to build a car and then complain the races "don't pay enough" to go........really??? So my next question is usually "exactly how many BIG races have you ever won"........the answer is usually none, so then I tell them that it doesn't matter what it pays then..........LOL!!!

Monte

THIS.

NSS pays $1500 to win. Street here pays $125 (pro/super at my local track pays 1000/2000 to win, guaranteed purse). I have just as much fun running my street car as I do running NSS. Just, with the traveling for NSS it is nice to come out ahead for the day if I win. When you spend a crap ton of money to build a car and only run it at the two big $$ races that come to your area each year, YOU are the one that loses because YOU don't see a return on the investment in the car. At the end of the day, this is something we do for fun, so why limit your ability to have fun?

Posted By: 68KillerBee

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/13/14 12:41 PM

R.I.P. Old monster mopar. Had the highest payouts for all mopar races I believe.

But I have never done more than went on a test and tune night for fun, so I really can't have much to say. I'm hoping to do the manual transmission race at the nationals this year though.

Posted By: tboomer

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/13/14 01:09 PM

The most fun I ever had racing is when they had the footbrake class in 2006. Entry was 35 or 40 bucks and the winner was paid 200.00. Fuel and tow gas wasn't as high back then. Now for one day of Pro it costs 90.00 to have a shot at 1500.00/750.00. To win the 1500.00 you have a run off between the Pro/Super Pro winner. I have seen a Pro car win but not very often. The next closest track is 86 miles and Pro entry is 60.00. I think Pro pays 600/250. I really miss the racing and hope to get back out someday.

Posted By: slantzilla

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/13/14 03:03 PM

I used to do a lot of travelling racing at Mopar shows and some big bucks stuff. I changed jobs and just can't schedule the time off anymore. Plus, like everyone else travel expenses are just too much anymore.

I used to race the Slant 6 series which was about the most economical series you could run. I got tired of paying $60-75 to race for $200 which was the average payout. When the purses were higher it was because we brought our own money to race for. Low payouts/high entry fees killed car counts for us which drove payouts even lower. I also got tired of being anally abused by Blankenships. It just plain took all the fun out of it.

There really does have to be the carrot on the stick to attract the big car counts. Racers won't stand in line to run for nothing anymore.

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/13/14 03:12 PM

There is very few weeks down here in the South that you can not find a $10,000.00 Bracket Race and we race 10-11 months out of the year.Most of the time for a 3day Race Fri pays $5,000.00 Sat & Sun pays $10,000.00 each day Pre-Enter and its $300.00 for the race or $150.00 per day.Now winning one of them is not easy!

The local track has a free 4:70 $1500.00 to win race once a month,and if the racers want to add any extra $$$ which all of it goes to the purse it pays more.And in the final of each driver wants to put up a couple of Grand each and run them out the Back Door they turn the clocks off and let them race.The 5:50 & 6:00 pay a $1,000.00 & 6:00 pays $700.00 all free entry if there is 4 cars or 40 cars.Free $$$

Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/13/14 03:51 PM

I'll worry about the payout when I know I'm a "hitter"..... Until then it's a great big waste of money hobby that's given me some good times and the opportunity to meet some pretty cool people over the years. $100 to fill the truck, $90 for two days entry, $75 for fuel, $20 for cereal, milk, bread, beef jerky, coffee. All this to camp out in the heat, blazing desert sun, on a huge asphalt parking lot for two days..... So far the return on my investment is about $200 in 4 races.

Posted By: Blucuda413

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/13/14 05:04 PM

My post only addresses the subject of this topic. I certainly am not in it for the money in fact I preach to my friends that my involvement is purely for the fun and enjoyment of racing. I don't make enough to pay for my race gas. However since I have to pick and choose what races I attend I will almost always go to the ones where the payout is greater taking into consideration the distance to travel. I have been racing since 1955 and will continue to do so until I feel it's not safe for me or others.

Posted By: Leon441

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/13/14 05:50 PM

This is old news. It cost a lot more to build a competitive car these days. Fuel prices have qaudropled. Anyone clueless enough to bash the well none facts has never had a budget.

Now for what you don't want to hear. The better the payout the harder the competition. Whether it be heads up or bracket racing. These 10k beds up races most who enter can only dream of making the field.

I would like to see businesses with Mopar interest support Mopar races. Muscle motors was very good to us kos guys.

Posted By: Locomotion

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/13/14 06:00 PM

There is a way to help protect a promotor's investment while keeping racers informed on what to expect for a payout at an event. Michael Beard of loose Rocker Promotions uses a formula that guarantees round money up through runner up. The winner's purse is the only figure pro-rated if the minimum car count isn't met while the round money is self-regulating: Less cars=less rounds=less tiered payouts!

The track/event promotor just has to sit down and crunch the numbers to see what formulas would work best for him/her, whether it be for a local weekend bracket race or a big buck event. Some tracks even RAISE the payout if a certain number of cars is exceeded!

The best perspective is to see it first hand: Payout structure used by Loose Rocker Promotions.

As much as I enjoy drag racing, I can't afford to do it unless I can win sometimes. I thank God I can be competitive, even as I get older, but the purses are often a deciding factor in attending some events. I can't and don't win all the time. But if I can't expect to even break even if I win an event, it's simply not practical to go. It's very upsetting when a purse is advertised and potentially being pro-rated based on car counts, but no hint on what to expect. Then when you win, it turns out to be slashed substantially! It's happened to me as well as others I know.

I simply like to know what to expect, whether it ends up with a low or a high car count, and then I can decide if I will attend a particular event.

Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/13/14 06:22 PM

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As much as I enjoy drag racing, I can't afford to do it unless I can win sometimes. I thank God I can be competitive, even as I get older, but the purses are often a deciding factor in attending some events. I can't and don't win all the time. But if I can't expect to even break even if I win an event, it's simply not practical to go.

I'm not racing to get rich. I'd be better off picking up loose change off the streets if that was the case. But its hard to justify hauling my car 3-4 hours to an event thats not paying any better that my local track 20 minutes away.

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/13/14 06:26 PM

Well as most of you guys know I tend to stick to Divisonal and some national events. The entry is very steep, at least compared to what most are saying here. But we have the potential for some pretty decent paydday if you can make the final. We also generally get paid after round three, it aint much but covers entry fees. Like many I am not a wealthy guy and the oppourtunity to take home some money sure helps along the way to soften the blow.

Posted By: Airwoofer

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/13/14 07:09 PM

I think a big factor is the spectator count dropping like it has. Face it drag racing isn't that popular like it was in the 60's and 70's. There are a lot of factors why the stands are not getting filled like they used to.

As for payout vs entry fees, sometines it makes more sense to footbrake with the lower entry fee.

Here is a race that will be at my home track this weekend. Payout a little better but the race will be drug out all day so the track can sell burgers.

Oh BTW, look who is one of the sponsors!

http://www.huntsvilledragway.com/rcity_n_5-14.jpg

Posted By: tex013

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/14/14 12:01 AM

its no better down here . same arguments and complaints .
and we have way less tracks , I race local or 10-12 hour drive - to the next state .
track championship is $180 enter to $200 win / $100ru .
I think the National event earlier this month paid $700 to win,Super Street class , with a $390 entry
There is a noticeable lack of sponsorship , the Naional series does not even have a title sponsor . lack of spectators is a given .
there is no big dollar events per se , even if there was my car is too slow and not teched or licenced to run with the Pro Street Association . Mostly heads up classes , all faster than 10.99
Racing to me is relaxation and personal goals , but I definitely don't aim to be there just to make up numbers

Tex

Posted By: coronetville

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/14/14 12:39 AM

To make things better, will have to promote cars that are being built now. Not enough youth can afford buying old cars and racing them

Posted By: Kudakid

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/14/14 01:11 AM

At Mopar Nats this year;
Catergory Win R/Up Semi 1/4 1/8
Super Pro $2000 $1000 $100 $50
Pro $2000 $1000 $100 $50 $25
Quick 16 $1500 $500 $100
Sportsman $1000 $500 $75 $50
Hemi $300 $100 $50
Stick Shift $1000 $400 $100
Nostalgic $1000 $500 $100

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/14/14 01:16 AM

National and Divisional events are guaranteed payouts. $1200 win $750 runner up(at least in D7 and the few D6 races I have been to) and for a National event it is $1800 to win and $1200 r/u. Payouts don't change with car count and start at round three. Divisonal entry is $165 and Nationals are $310 with the mandatory $100 insurance. Contingency pays $300 per deal for winner and $100 for R/U at Nats and $100 and $50 at the divison level. There are some exceptions to that such as Mother Mopar who actually pays much better contingency. Just FYI

Posted By: sg66mopar

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/14/14 01:51 AM

I have to agree with everyone that says we (most of us anyway) aren't racing to make money.

That said, when the payouts were better and the cost was lower I made 400-500 passes a year and paid most of my expenses with winnings.

A few years I might have actually come out a little ahead.

Last year I made 13 and so far this year 9.

I don't see it getting any better but I'm not crying in my beer or planning to quit just yet. I realize how lucky I am to be able to do this.

BTW Al, wifey says MATS race next year or divorce imminent!

Posted By: ajcasini

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/14/14 03:32 AM

I have my thoughts on the subject and the cost of everything has gone up, way up. I remember back when I first started driving my Roadrunner I could race Thursday - Sunday, tow to 3 different tracks and spend less than 300 bucks. (Granted I slept in the truck.) Point is entry fees were around $35-$40 payouts were anywhere from $500-$1000 to win with round money. The change came in the cost of diesel. I still have receipts where I was paying 1.19 a gallon for diesel. Now at $4.29+ per gallon (nearly a 4x increase) my 4 day trips would now cost 1200 bucks and only about 40-50 bucks is an increase in entry fee.

With that said I too look at the purse before I travel. However I dont look at the top number I look at everything below it. RU/SEMI and RD Money. I would rather go to a race that pays a little less at the top but has good round money. I go to the events with the intention of winning and taking home that big check but bringing in 100-400 bucks for a good showing is nice. It softens the blow of the high gas prices.

I see a lot of "Big Money" races that pay $2500 W $500 RU $100 SEMI $25 to the quarters. I have raced in these and lost late in the rounds 4th or 5th round and get the big goose egg. I would rather have the payout that goes back further and nets me $50-$100 for my 5th RD loss.

Just my

on the subject.

Posted By: 1BadLiLCharger

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/14/14 04:18 AM

First off, thanks to all of you for the nice things that were said about me.

I'm not out to make a profit in this hobby, it would be nice, but I don't get out enough anymore to make that happen. I'm happy if I can come out ahead for the WEEKEND expenses. But as stated, if you can get the same (or better) payout closer to home, with the cost of gas for the tow vehicle, motels, entry fees, race fuel, etc - I just saved $500-$800 by NOT going to a far away specialty event, (assuming I didn't get to the semis or better) So, I guess the car COULD make money sitting in the shop, Monte. lol (if I had a shop)

I saw the word 'fun' thrown in a few replies. I'm gonna have 'fun' anywhere I race. Not a factor. I'll see the Mopar crowd up at Norwalk in September...again, not happy with the payout structure of that event (street paying the same as pro with half as many entries, you can see what purse my 'pro' entry fee is helping to pay) but it's about 2 hours away and the best facility to race at.

As for events growing...let's hope so, it seems like a few of them are in their beginning stages, maybe the payout will get better with time. We'll see.

Posted By: Valiant_Showoff

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/14/14 01:51 PM

The logic behind building a race car to win $ is kin to justifying a $20,000 boat to catch fish to stock the freezer. Do it because you enjoy it, and let the $ be icing on the cake.

Posted By: notchbackcuda

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/14/14 02:26 PM

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I have my thoughts on the subject and the cost of everything has gone up, way up. I remember back when I first started driving my Roadrunner I could race Thursday - Sunday, tow to 3 different tracks and spend less than 300 bucks. (Granted I slept in the truck.) Point is entry fees were around $35-$40 payouts were anywhere from $500-$1000 to win with round money. The change came in the cost of diesel. I still have receipts where I was paying 1.19 a gallon for diesel. Now at $4.29+ per gallon (nearly a 4x increase) my 4 day trips would now cost 1200 bucks and only about 40-50 bucks is an increase in entry fee.

With that said I too look at the purse before I travel. However I dont look at the top number I look at everything below it. RU/SEMI and RD Money. I would rather go to a race that pays a little less at the top but has good round money. I go to the events with the intention of winning and taking home that big check but bringing in 100-400 bucks for a good showing is nice. It softens the blow of the high gas prices.

I see a lot of "Big Money" races that pay $2500 W $500 RU $100 SEMI $25 to the quarters. I have raced in these and lost late in the rounds 4th or 5th round and get the big goose egg. I would rather have the payout that goes back further and nets me $50-$100 for my 5th RD loss.

Just my on the subject.

I agree. I race because it's fun, but if I can win something....it's found money whether it's $50 (I won $50 recently for a 4th round loss) or winning the final which I've only ever done once (got paid $150).

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/14/14 03:56 PM

Many people race for the chance of winning some cash,but most race for recoginition and accomplishment of their hard work and effort.Racing at a local track will net you local recoginition but not at any great scale.Racing at the larger events that get TV,internet and magazine coverage will get you national if not world recoginition for your hard work and effort.Take for example,we had a elderly guy that never won a race and was virtually unheard of,he was fortunate enough to get picked for "Pinks All Out".His first career win was on national TV infront of 40,000 people.Now he's a legend.Sure the money and prizes were great,but the accomplishment,moment,self pride and the memories are priceless and will live on forever even if he never wins another race.

Posted By: Blucuda413

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/14/14 03:59 PM

Myron, I agree 100% with the Loose Rocker system I have thought that getting some money into the hands of more racers would entice more racer participation. In fact a few years ago I proposed such a system to 2 tracks here in Louisiana and they wouldn't even give it a reasonable analysis. Totally closed minded to the concept. There was a track in Miss that implemented such a system a few years ago and the racers gripped because the win and runner up payouts were lower. The track even ran 2 races in a day to give the early round winners more opportunity to packet some money. It hurt the track and the next year he had to go back to the old system. Sometime guys can't grasp that such a change is for their benefit. I still believe such a system SHOULD help by spreading money around to more people.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Payouts are going downhill. - 05/14/14 04:21 PM

As mentioned the spectator attendence at local tracks is down over 90% from the haydays of dragracing.It's is more of a partisipant sport and you see even at large events the crowds are light.Even NHRA is having trouble filling the stands.The sport loses more fans and racers every year and many of the events are going by the wayside or struggling.The cost is driving racers and fans away also.
To have an event that guarentees the payouts and extras no matter what the car count is as well as gives fans something to enjoy for their attendence will help keep the sport alive and provide a venue for racers to be recoginized for their investment,hard work and accomplishments.
Always consider the hard work and investments as well as the risk that the promoters and track owners take on when having these events.Like the racers,the promoters arn't getting rich either.

Payouts are going downhill.