Moparts

Glyptal/internal engine painting questions

Posted By: 408cuda

Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/25/14 07:51 AM

I have an unopened can several years old that I could just never pull the trigger and use on anything I built for myself or others. It's a nice idea but seems like an area for another potential disaster. Lots of people paint every inch inside with this or maybe something similar but I gotta wonder what happens if things aren't spotless, or even on small spot starts to lift? Seems like it would eventually all peel off, especially if you had hard edges which is inevitable. How are you guys doing it, right after hot tank? I can't imaging getting it clean enough with just thinner but maybe I'm wrong? I smoothed the lifter valley with carbides and paper in my own 408 to get some of the benefit without having to break my can open and actually try the stuff.

Thoughts for or against?
Posted By: topside

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/25/14 08:25 AM

Never had a problem with it. I just cleaned the blocks beforehand with degreaser, then soap and HOT water.
Posted By: Jeremiah

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/25/14 09:08 AM

I think it's a waste of time and a perfectly good paint brush. It does look cool in the magazines.
Posted By: LA360

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/25/14 11:57 AM

I have seen a few instances where it has lifted off, but I have seen many, many engines that have been internally painted and never had an issue. The last one I did still looked it had just been painted when it was freshened.
Posted By: 85_Ram_4speed

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/25/14 01:16 PM

I actually have used the red oxide Rustoleum rusty metal primer from a rattle can on cleaned blocks and have had excellent results over the years. All the blocks I have done come from the machinest bake and blast machine and then I wash them with hot soapy water and dried for at least a couple hours.

I just do it to help keep any flash over or surface rust from forming during the build and help seal the pores in the metal. Sometimes I do the whole block, other times it's just the lifter valley timing chain area. It's just a pain to mask when you spray, but I like the results.

383 build:





440 build:





Brand X build:

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/25/14 03:19 PM

Every R3 block I have seen is painted in the valley..
I do it on all of my junk and so far its never lifted
Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/25/14 06:49 PM

Quote:

I think it's a waste of time and a perfectly good paint brush. It does look cool in the magazines.



I would disagree on this. It does much more than just look cool...lol.
Posted By: qwkmopardan

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/25/14 09:52 PM

Quote:

I think it's a waste of time and a perfectly good paint brush. It does look cool in the magazines.



What functional purpose does it serve. I use oven cleaner to remove it when I get an engine that someone has applied it to.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/25/14 10:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I think it's a waste of time and a perfectly good paint brush. It does look cool in the magazines.



What functional purpose does it serve. I use oven cleaner to remove it when I get an engine that someone has applied it to.



Do you know why its put in there? to allow the oil
to return easier... every bit of rough casting slows
the oil from returning... if you want you can polish
it but the paint is easier and does work
Posted By: qwkmopardan

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/26/14 02:14 AM

Funny, on modern race engines oil is trapped in the top of engine and routed to the pan at the very rear or very front to keep the oil from attempting to pass through the rotating crankshaft assembly where most of it will churn in the crank and will cause drag and loss of power. And very little will make it to the pan anyway under hard accelleration. Ever look at a GM rocket block or a ritter small block mopar? Ideally, a dry sump would be best, with 3 scavenge lines in the pan and one in the valley. You don't see glyptol in a pro/stock or fuel engine. Waste your time if you want, I will trap the oil and let it return to the pan on coast or deceleration.

P-body, I would love to buy your car and put a flat tappet cam, strip the glyptol paint, freshin it up, put a Dana 60 in it and go run some 8.50s on gas.
Posted By: Stanton

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/26/14 02:49 AM

Show me a fuel motor that isn't a beautifully machined billet! They have no pores and are pretty darn smooth.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/26/14 02:52 AM

Quote:

Funny, on modern race engines oil is trapped in the top of engine and routed to the pan at the very rear or very front to keep the oil from attempting to pass through the rotating crankshaft assembly where most of it will churn in the crank and will cause drag and loss of power. And very little will make it to the pan anyway under hard accelleration. Ever look at a GM rocket block or a ritter small block mopar? Ideally, a dry sump would be best, with 3 scavenge lines in the pan and one in the valley. You don't see glyptol in a pro/stock or fuel engine. Waste your time if you want, I will trap the oil and let it return to the pan on coast or deceleration.

P-body, I would love to buy your car and put a flat tappet cam, strip the glyptol paint, freshin it up, put a Dana 60 in it and go run some 8.50s on gas.



I'll keep the paint in it...it does have a dry sump..
I will refresh it for who ever buys it.. and yes it
would
run 8.50 if I regrind the cam... but I wimped out
on the cam the first time
Posted By: roadhazard

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/26/14 04:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I think it's a waste of time and a perfectly good paint brush. It does look cool in the magazines.



I would disagree on this. It does much more than just look cool...lol.



And I'd like to add
Mine has been on there 15 years. After the block was clean. I washed it with laquer thinner, then hit it with Brake Kleen just before I brushed 3 coats on, top to bottom.

I find it easier to notice any little bit of debris. Fine metal particles, valve train parts, etc.

If there is dirt anywhere it can be wiped out with a paper shop towel, in one piece

Hope I never have to find out but I think you might be able to find a crack, should one appear

And...... It Aids Oil Drain Back! New motor technology starts with race motor technology. My 1969 block from an Imperial was never meant to push 650HP @ 7,200 RPM with a tall rotor Milodon pump. I'll take my oil to the pan as soon as I can get it there while keeping it off the rotating assembly.

I know I'm missing something, it's been so long since I've touched the Barracuda
Posted By: Jeremiah

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/26/14 07:17 AM

I would like to see if anyone can actually come up with a measurable gain for a painted vs. unpainted block. With the way hot oil flows down hill don't see the performance benefit being anything beyond negligible. The line items Greg listed are definitely good aspects that would promote painting the block.

So now that you guys are starting to win me over where does one get this super oil flowing paint?
Posted By: 408cuda

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/26/14 08:09 AM

Thanks for all the replies guys. I don't see/hear much about it peeling off just a personal fear. Suppose I got to break down and try it at some point and see for myself. I like the oil drain prospects but also sealing the casting pores. Like concrete cast iron seems to dust eternally.

Eastwood is where I bought the can I have. Used a gift certificate I got to there on it. Wonder if its still good? Been years on the shelf but don't think its frozen ever. Anyway thanks again.
Posted By: Stanton

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/26/14 04:16 PM

With even a reasonable cleaning the glyptol should adhere well enough that it shouldn't be a concern. The stuff is tough, originally made to be used on electric motors which can get pretty hot! I've seen blocks come out of the hot tank and the glyptol remained completely untouched.

I've always used the spray can stuff - I hate brush-painting anything! I used corks to plug the lifter bores and I only bothered doing the valley, not the rest of the block.

I doubt you'd see even a minute HP gain from this since all it supposedly does it provide a smooth surface for the oil to flow down. You'd have to do some other mods to keep it away from the rotating assembly before you'd see HP gains.

I stopped using the stuff over 20 years ago. With the tools available now I can quickly get into every part of a block and knock out every bit of flash or casting crud and I'm happy with that.
Posted By: FastmOp

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/26/14 05:20 PM

It's not to be used on alcohol. The paint can says so.
Posted By: DusterDave

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/26/14 05:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I think it's a waste of time and a perfectly good paint brush. It does look cool in the magazines.



I would disagree on this. It does much more than just look cool...lol.


Can you enlighten us with a list of the "much more"?
Posted By: b1dartsport

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/27/14 01:32 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I think it's a waste of time and a perfectly good paint brush. It does look cool in the magazines.



I would disagree on this. It does much more than just look cool...lol.


Can you enlighten us with a list of the "much more"?

I worked for a utility company in Pittsburgh and we used it on high voltage Transformer tanks and winding leads. We had a huge problem with insulating oils becoming acidic due to degradation over time and condensation. Glyptal was the only thing that solved our problems. I have never seen it fail or degrade even in the very worst super high voltage, high temperature situations. Our Network operators and mechanics developed all kinds of uses for it including spot rust proofing on Downtown Network Transformers which are almost always partially submerged in water that had salt in it from winter sidewalk maintenance. A couple of coats of it on Breaker or Transformer leads often served as a very good insulator when normal insulating materials could not be used. I have also seen it used as a gasket sealer on high pressure Transformer oil Tanks. I can honestly say that this stuff was on every one of our trucks and is the first thing restocked if there was any danger of running out. Just from someone that used it daily for over 40yrs.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/27/14 01:43 AM

All I can say about this subject is it does allow the
oil to return quicker to the bottom... if your engine
is set up to allow the oil to return via the intake
valley then its no difference but it allows it quicker
to get there... I would prefer that than having the
oil up top in the valley doing nothing but draining
the pan... get it back as best you can... if you dont
like it hitting the crank then direct it to the rear
and drop it down there.. oil laying in the top is a
waste of oil........ JMO
Posted By: dogdays

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/27/14 04:50 AM

Also keeps any casting sand from working out of the block.
Glyptal is wonderful stuff, I even have a quart of it, never had an engine that was special enough to put it on!

R.
Posted By: Stanton

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/27/14 05:08 AM

Quote:

It's not to be used on alcohol. The paint can says so.



Yes, you absolutely should not drink and paint !

On a more serious note, I would hope that ANY fuel I was running would not find its way to any of the places the glyptol is used !!!
Posted By: FastmOp

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions *DELETED* - 02/27/14 04:16 PM

Post deleted by moparts
Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 02/27/14 04:55 PM

Im a fan, I know some think its a waste of time, but the oil drain back is the main reason I did mine. Also keeps the valley cleaner so you can see at a glance if theres something thats not suposed to be there, Roller bearings, flakes of stuff, etc, etc...

Do it right, clean the block properly it should last and last.
Posted By: SoCalRacer

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 03/24/14 08:07 PM



After several seasons of racing and just now torn down for its third ring/bearing freshen up the paint looks like new with no chips or flaking.
Posted By: lewtot184

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 03/24/14 11:08 PM

painting an engine internally started in the '60's. back in the day we did it not so much for oil drainback but to seal the casting from silicon/sand and who knows what from breaking loose during thermal cycles. a lot of racers were using green blocks back then. back then there wasn't any thermal cleaning. everything was a hot tank and the iron had a dirty texture/light surface rusting. we also used the rustoleum damp proof red primer in a can and brushed it on to seal everything. this paint had lead in it so it's no longer available.
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: Glyptal/internal engine painting questions - 03/24/14 11:56 PM


Not only does it seal in any casting residue it also seals the pores to keep the black soot that discolors the oil from being trapped in the pores and contaminating fresh oil after an oil change.

Other than cost/labor, there is no downside to Glyptal or Rustoleum Damp Proof Primer.
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