Moparts

Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience

Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/24/14 10:08 PM

Just thought I'd post my KB ordering experience since I've heard rumors that it takes 6 to 9 months to get one. In late Nov I called and requested a KB block order form, filed it out and sent it in and on Dec 3 Ken Black called me and we discussed my order and he took the 1st payment (which is half of the cost of the block, including shipping).

He told me they were running about 12 week from ordering to shipping, which was fine with me since I didn't need it to start out the season.

On Friday, 2/21, I received a call from Ken to tell me that the block has been received from the foundry and was ready for machining and was ready for the 2nd half of the payment.

So now they are starting on the finish machining (install sleeves, bore and honing, cam and main journals, decking, oil galleys, etc.

He said that it should be done and ready to ship in about 3 weeks but I changed my mind on one thing and that added another week so I should have my KB block in about 4 weeks. So that is about 3.5 months and with the Holiday's in there I don't think that is bad at all.

440 Street (water) block (good for up to 2,500hp)
4.360 bore (but the sleeves will support up to 4.530 bore)
10.725 deck

The only option I added (which I mentioned above "changed my mind") was to drill the lifter galley for hydraulic or push rod oiling about a $350 option. I don't need it with my current build but if I ever went to push rod oiling or sold the block I would wished I had done it.. They don't do this machining, they farm it out so that's why it adds another week lead time.

They are going to put a plug in the lifter galleys and drill it out .060 so it won't have full volume/pressure but the extra oil should help the roller lifters live longer, even though Isky told me it wasn't necessary. And if I ever want to change it I would just pull the outside block 3/8" plug and access the internal 1/4" plug. It's my understanding that is how Dart does their blocks as well.

The block will come fully machined and ready to assemble including finished honed. Cam bearings installed, Head bolts are included (they ask you which heads your running), Rear main seal/cap and of course all the plugs installed.

It's been a pleasure dealing with Ken. I've called him a few times with questions and he's always been very nice and willing to help me out.
Posted By: sg66mopar

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/24/14 10:19 PM

Nice to know there's still a few reputable, professional people in the world.

Tommy, are you readin' this buddy?
Posted By: camastomcat

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/24/14 11:23 PM

Quote:

Nice to know thee's still a few reputable, professional people in the world.

Tommy, are you readin' this buddy?





Yes and it's good to know. I might re-consider my block options as a result of this post. Thanks Wade! Also, you will be glad you had the lifter galley drilled.
Posted By: Mulehead

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/24/14 11:31 PM

Yes,It took 6 mouths to get my street hemi.

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Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/25/14 12:22 AM

Does KB build any Mopar small blocks... never seen one
but I figured I'd ask
thanks
Posted By: rickraw

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/25/14 12:32 AM

Didn't see any on their site. They should start making them.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/25/14 12:38 AM

Quote:

Didn't see any on their site. They should start making them.




I seen a alum LA block some years back...I'm sure it
was a one of a kind.. I tried to buy it from him but
he didnt want to sell it... I'm sure he never used it
Posted By: RUNCHARGER

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/25/14 02:48 AM

Good post. Always nice to hear great experiences with a reputable company.

Sheldon
Posted By: BIGBLOCK_KAT

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/25/14 04:41 AM

Quote:

Does KB build any Mopar small blocks... never seen one
but I figured I'd ask
thanks



.
Why not give them a call?? Glad to hear a positive post!
Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/25/14 06:49 AM

how is it coming finished honed?? Did you measure your pistons and send them the dimensions?
Posted By: Biginchmopar

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/25/14 07:43 AM

I tell you how much of a stand up guy Ken Black is, I went down to LA on the Feb. 7, 2014. On my over the mountain we got stuck in weather so after I got into Sacrament I called Ken and told him we were behind and that I thought I would be there right around 5:00pm
He said no problem.
Well we hit Magic Mountain around 5:00pm and traffic was at a stand still. I was distraught so I called and told Ken I was sorry, he said no biggie I'll see you when you get here. We showed up at 6:30pm and there he was big smile on his face. He took a couple my friends around a showed them the things they wanted to see and spent a lot more time with us. I was picking up a Chevy block that we decided not to fix.

Ken, thanks a million!
What a great guy!

Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/25/14 06:03 PM

Quote:

how is it coming finished honed?? Did you measure your pistons and send them the dimensions?




Yes I have the pistons, bought them used and they were all were within .001 of each other, so they were in great shape. They are Diamond and they build in .004 piston to wall clearance in the piston, so 4.360 is what they will finish hone it to.

They were coated, gas ported and had a dome on them, I cut the dome off and made them flat tops.

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Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/25/14 06:04 PM

2nd picture

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Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/25/14 06:10 PM

Its funny you posted this when you did Wade. I was reorganizing my old racing receipts 2 days before you posted this and read thru my old order form from my Keith Black engine. Still have some pictures from the day I picked my block up from the loading dock. GREAT company and I'm glad they made it thru the lean years.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/25/14 10:34 PM

Quote:

...requested a KB block order form, filed it out and sent it in and on Dec 3 Ken Black called me and we discussed my order and he took the 1st payment (which is half of the cost of the block, including shipping).

He told me they were running about 12 week from ordering to shipping, which was fine with me since I didn't need it to start out the season.

On Friday, 2/21, I received a call from Ken to tell me that the block has been received from the foundry and was ready for machining and was ready for the 2nd half of the payment.

He said that it should be done and ready to ship in about 3 weeks...


That looks like 11 weeks to get the casting from the foundary after you ordered. Plus 3 more weeks for machining, total 14 weeks.

I ordered mine on Jan 17, 2014. I will keep you posted on the progress.
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/26/14 12:47 AM

I was giving them some slack with the holidays in there...
Posted By: RodStRace

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/26/14 03:14 AM

Great to hear!
To the person who wondered about a SB, I would think that a 3rd gen hemi would be a better investment for them to make.
The SB span was 1964.5 through 2003. no new ones in 11 years!
Plenty of different heads, and stroker setups, but the same is true for the new hemi.
It just makes sense to go with a design that not only is still in production but provides more power stock and is still being developed to this day.
Just my 2 cents... can't afford to build one either way.
Posted By: cudadon

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/26/14 06:08 PM

Wade do you mind if I ask how much it cost?
How much it weighs?
Thanks, Don

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Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/26/14 06:18 PM

Quote:

Great to hear!
To the person who wondered about a SB, I would think that a 3rd gen hemi would be a better investment for them to make.
The SB span was 1964.5 through 2003. no new ones in 11 years!
Plenty of different heads, and stroker setups, but the same is true for the new hemi.
It just makes sense to go with a design that not only is still in production but provides more power stock and is still being developed to this day.
Just my 2 cents... can't afford to build one either way.




I am contemplating a gen3 but I'm leaving all the
doors open... all my spare parts are the old LA stuff
so thats why I was looking at what is available...
if I do go with a gen3 I'll have to start up a new
stash of parts.... just in case
Posted By: Biginchmopar

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/26/14 08:04 PM

440Jim,
I did ask Ken about your block and he said he didn't have it from the foundry yet but he did say "Ya it's a low deck deal right" I told him yes that is the one.

Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/26/14 09:01 PM

Quote:

Wade do you mind if I ask how much it cost?
How much it weighs?
Thanks, Don




PM me if you want to know the cost.

I'm not completely sure about this but when I did a rough calculation the KB block is really about the same price as the World or Indy blocks because it comes fully machined (finished honed), with head bolts, rear Main cap/seal, cam bearings ready to assembly. It's my understanding that on the others you'll have to bore/hone it, install cam bearing and quite often fix the deck or main journal. (and I may be way off)

The Worlds do come with the lifter galley's drilled, bushed lifter bores, dual pattern bell housing (chevy/Mopar) and provisions for a 2nd oil pick up line so you only need a single pick up in your pump assembly. So if those are important features to you, I would be completely wrong.

It's more block than I need since I'll only be making 800hp or less with it and it's rated at 2,500hp. I almost traded a local buddy his aluminum World block and several other things for my KB block because he's trying to make 1,500hp (1,050hp motor and spray it with ~400hp NOS) and he is getting concerned that will be pushing the limits of the World Block. The World block would have worked for me just fine.

Regarding weight, this is my understanding.

Aluminum - 150
Stock - 250
Mega block - 340

So I should be saving almost 190 pounds going from my Mega block to the Aluminum block.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/26/14 09:21 PM

Quote:

440Jim,
I did ask Ken about your block and he said he didn't have it from the foundry yet but he did say "Ya it's a low deck deal right" I told him yes that is the one.




Thanks, that will keep it on his attention.
I actually talked to Ken last week. After ordering my 4.500" Diamond pistons, I reminded Ken not to stroker clearance my block. Since it is a 9.98" deck height, the piston manufacturer wants as much support at the bottom of the cylinder as possible for the piston skirts.

I ordered mine on Jan 17, 2014. So the estimated schedule is:
March 21 casting arrives from the foundary
April 11 machining complete
Then ship across the country from CA to MD.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/26/14 09:23 PM

Quote:

I'm not completely sure about this but when I did a rough calculation the KB block is really about the same price as the World or Indy blocks because it comes fully machined (finished honed), with head bolts, rear Main cap/seal, cam bearings ready to assembly.


As I understand it, the KB block comes with:
- Head studs, nuts, washers for the heads you specify
- Oil pan stud kit
- Front cover stud kit
- And of course all the main cap studs, nuts, washers, and side bolts.
Posted By: Tig

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/26/14 10:49 PM

Quote:

Wade do you mind if I ask how much it cost?
How much it weighs?
Thanks, Don



Sorry to Hi-jack. We went from a Mega blocked 528ci motor to a KB block 572. The weight loss was only 70lbs but in the right place. Same intake and heads etc.
HTH's
Posted By: Dart Racer

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/27/14 04:45 AM

After my cast block cracked I have been thinking the ole dart should have one.

So are there any cons to a aluminum block?
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/27/14 07:57 PM

Quote:

Sorry to Hi-jack. We went from a Mega blocked 528ci motor to a KB block 572. The weight loss was only 70lbs but in the right place. Same intake and heads etc.
HTH's




I don't see how this could be correct, maybe your Mega block was lightened or something. I remember hearing that Indy could knock over 75 pounds of them for about $1,000.

The crank and rods would probably weigh more. Did you go from aluminum rods to heavy steel rods?
Posted By: EchoSixMike

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/27/14 08:36 PM

The early megablocks were/are significantly lighter than the later ones. S/F.....Ken M
Posted By: Airwoofer

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/27/14 09:18 PM

Anybody looking for a KB aluminum low deck block... I have one. It has B1 PSO heavily worked heads attached, a new Bryant 4.15 crank, new alum rods and JE 14-1 pistons. Vacuum system, fogger set-up on the intake. Reverse flow water incl the radiator.

In other words a race ready 499 fresh and ready to go. It is still in the 71 KOS Demon I just bought and will be coming out of the car after I play with it some this weekend at the track. I will be doing some street driving with the car and will be putting in a new 540 world block / 440-1 engine I built.

If interested, send me a PM.

And as for Ken, before I got the World block I was talking with him about buying an alum block. That was last summer when the World blocks were not being made for a while. Every now and then he calls me up and asks if they ever followed up on my request for a quote cause he forgot he already called. He is a Mopar guy and loves to talk cars.
Posted By: Tig

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/27/14 09:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Sorry to Hi-jack. We went from a Mega blocked 528ci motor to a KB block 572. The weight loss was only 70lbs but in the right place. Same intake and heads etc.
HTH's




I don't see how this could be correct, maybe your Mega block was lightened or something. I remember hearing that Indy could knock over 75 pounds of them for about $1,000.

The crank and rods would probably weigh more. Did you go from aluminum rods to heavy steel rods?



Double checked on 2 different scales. I was a little dissapointed, since I was expecting around 150lbs. Megablock was an early one, bought in 2000. Both motors used steel rods. Weight was with the motor in the car.
Posted By: Sammy

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/27/14 11:03 PM

Now I think I should go order my KB Street Hemi raised cam block now and sell my KB Street Hemi standard cam location 4.50 bore if it only takes 12 weeks.
Posted By: 6PKRTSE

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/27/14 11:30 PM

I can't wait to hopefully be ordering another one for myself here soon. Hear too many issues and problems with the World blocks.
Posted By: go green

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/28/14 05:21 AM

Cant wait to see how this thread turns out when he actually does get his block .
Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/28/14 06:29 AM

Quote:

Cant wait to see how this thread turns out when he actually does get his block .




Posted By: Airwoofer

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/28/14 07:29 PM

Quote:

After my cast block cracked I have been thinking the ole dart should have one.

So are there any cons to a aluminum block?




You had a stock RB block and cracked a main web?


The scarcity last Summer for the World blocks made me look at an aluminum block for my 540 build. The only real downside I heard was that unless they were filled the bores would not stay round and true. I can also tell you that a filled alum block with a race size radiator will get pretty warm if you are just driving around at 45 MPH in 3rd.
Posted By: camastomcat

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 02/28/14 08:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

After my cast block cracked I have been thinking the ole dart should have one.

So are there any cons to a aluminum block?




You had a stock RB block and cracked a main web?


The scarcity last Summer for the World blocks made me look at an aluminum block for my 540 build. The only real downside I heard was that unless they were filled the bores would not stay round and true. I can also tell you that a filled alum block with a race size radiator will get pretty warm if you are just driving around at 45 MPH in 3rd.





My World 572 B1/MC motor although it a race set up, leaks down at less than 1%. So, I don't agree.
Posted By: OUTLAWSSAA

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 03/01/14 04:21 AM







The scarcity last Summer for the World blocks made me look at an aluminum block for my 540 build. The only real downside I heard was that unless they were filled the bores would not stay round and true. I can also tell you that a filled alum block with a race size radiator will get pretty warm if you are just driving around at 45 MPH in 3rd.




I've been running a KB for 10yrs since I got rid of my Indy POS. You don't have to worry about the bores being out of round on the KB and my block is not filled.
Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/28/14 04:28 PM

I'm curious. Did you get your block yet?
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/28/14 11:38 PM

Just called Ken today and he said all that is left is to install the sleeves (they had been on back order for several weeks so there are a lot of blocks waiting on sleeves). He said it would be Monday so hopefully it will ship sometime next week.

I spoke to him about 2 weeks ago and he said that their supplier of sleeves was out of stock so they had been waiting for a while for them.

So I'm just a little past the 6 month mark.
Posted By: Bigcube

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/29/14 12:21 AM

One thing to note is check and double check everything. And wash it very well, I was amazed at how much alum shavings came out of mine. They are far from "ready to assemble". Other typical clearance problems for me was pushrod clearance. Only other issues I had with fit/finish was my deck height was not even on both banks and the sleeves were slightly above the deck. I eventually sent it back to correct the deck height and sleeves and fix something I screwed up.

Customer service it top notch. Even for sending in one for repair.

Do not chase any threads with a normal tap. The use a slightly undersize tap so thread engagement is correct when warm. I chased my head stud holes and actually pulled some studs out torquing the heads. When I sent it back they put in some sort of steel thread inserts in all the holes.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/29/14 12:23 AM

Quote:

Just called Ken today and he said all that is left is to install the sleeves (they had been on back order for several weeks so there are a lot of blocks waiting on sleeves). He said it would be Monday so hopefully it will ship sometime next week.

I spoke to him about 2 weeks ago and he said that their supplier of sleeves was out of stock so they had been waiting for a while for them.

So I'm just a little past the 6 month mark.



Ditto. I ordered mine around the first part of January.
Posted By: go green

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/29/14 05:33 AM

Call next week and you will have a new excuse . The honeymoon phase is over and soon you will be harassing them like the rest of had to do . I just gets worse from here .
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/29/14 05:55 AM

Ya lets all bad mouth Keith Black Racing so they too leave the market place. So what you have to plan ahead to get the best. If I remember right when I got my block I paid half upfront and half when it was finished but its been awhile. Thanks KB for making it thru some tough years.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/29/14 01:37 PM

Just my
But I'd rather them take a little longer, and it be right, that hurry thru it and get someone else's block (not literally).
Hopefully you get what I mean.
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/29/14 02:01 PM

Quote:

Ya lets all bad mouth Keith Black Racing so they too leave the market place. So what you have to plan ahead to get the best. If I remember right when I got my block I paid half upfront and half when it was finished but its been awhile. Thanks KB for making it thru some tough years.




I have 2 KB cast blocks and there's nothing wrong with them and have gone just as fast with them.
But I must say the best is a BAE billet block, just so you know.
KB cast low deck 451".

BAE billet block and heads.

Posted By: camastomcat

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/29/14 02:50 PM

A;; I can say ia, 6 months is too damn long. As much as I hate lose the KB tradition, and as nice as Ken is, the money down and money put out when it's supposed to be 2 weeks out then being 2-3 months out ie unacceptable in this business. There are already too many making all of us wait with the money up first tradition. I for one, am glad I ordered a World cast for my build. HP Performance, try them......
Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/29/14 07:07 PM

Quote:

Ya lets all bad mouth Keith Black Racing so they too leave the market place. So what you have to plan ahead to get the best. If I remember right when I got my block I paid half upfront and half when it was finished but its been awhile. Thanks KB for making it thru some tough years.


That's not the issue..........The issue is excuse after excuse, with customer after customer, just like this thread and many others just like it. If it is going to take 6 months to do a block, FINE, just TELL me that. But don't tell me it will be ready in two weeks and then 3 months later it is still not ready.

Monte
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/29/14 07:27 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Ya lets all bad mouth Keith Black Racing so they too leave the market place. So what you have to plan ahead to get the best. If I remember right when I got my block I paid half upfront and half when it was finished but its been awhile. Thanks KB for making it thru some tough years.


That's not the issue..........The issue is excuse after excuse, with customer after customer, just like this thread and many others just like it. If it is going to take 6 months to do a block, FINE, just TELL me that. But don't tell me it will be ready in two weeks and then 3 months later it is still not ready.

Monte





Sometimes the vendors we deal with have other vendors they deal with and sometimes YOU cannot control delivery of said products. I dough every single item is made in-house. I guess from reading said deliver times I stepped up my program so I ordered my block after the season ended instead of waiting till early in the next year. Thanks again KB for making my wait worth while.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/29/14 07:52 PM

I agree there can be vendor issues etc. HOWEVER when it is the same or similar story repeatedly to carious people it makes me think there may be a deeper issue. As Monte said if it will be 6 months just tell me up front. I just purchased a new block for my new build and it was from another vendor and got here when promised and very quickly.
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/29/14 09:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Ya lets all bad mouth Keith Black Racing so they too leave the market place. So what you have to plan ahead to get the best. If I remember right when I got my block I paid half upfront and half when it was finished but its been awhile. Thanks KB for making it thru some tough years.


That's not the issue..........The issue is excuse after excuse, with customer after customer, just like this thread and many others just like it. If it is going to take 6 months to do a block, FINE, just TELL me that. But don't tell me it will be ready in two weeks and then 3 months later it is still not ready.

Monte





Sometimes the vendors we deal with have other vendors they deal with and sometimes YOU cannot control delivery of said products. I dough every single item is made in-house. I guess from reading said deliver times I stepped up my program so I ordered my block after the season ended instead of waiting till early in the next year. Thanks again KB for making my wait worth while.




I have heard the "waiting on sleeves" excuse many times in the past.

And there was a time when sleeves were hard to get in the past.

But when I ordered them from darton I got them pretty dang quick, way less than a month.

Last time I checked BAE had all this stuff in stock.

To the OP, don't forget to get yourself a sleeve puller so when you burn a piston you can replace the sleeve and piston at the track and keep on racing.

Posted By: Keith Richards

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/29/14 09:05 PM

I paid 100% in full and after 11 months got a full refund as we just felt like we could not wait any longer. Ended up with a World and with my little 800 hp mill all is well so far, just have to re-arrange the car a bit as with all the torque the 572 is providing and 100# off the nose it makes for a fun ride.......Good Luck to all who are awaiting orders and when I do build another motor I will try to get a KB first.
Posted By: mickm

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/29/14 10:33 PM

Quote:


To the OP, don't forget to get yourself a sleeve puller so when you burn a piston you can replace the sleeve and piston at the track and keep on racing.





wow, how do you replace a sleeve at the track?

putting in a sleeve seems like a lot of specific, detailed machine work, not to mention honing. do you pre hone the sleeves?
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/29/14 10:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:


To the OP, don't forget to get yourself a sleeve puller so when you burn a piston you can replace the sleeve and piston at the track and keep on racing.





wow, how do you replace a sleeve at the track?

putting in a sleeve seems like a lot of specific, detailed machine work, not to mention honing. do you pre hone the sleeves?




Yes, it's not rocket science. Match a piston to a sleeve ahead of time. Just hard work and you beat the replacement sleeve back in with BFH and heavy steel plate. The flats on the sleeves determine if it's in right. No machine work needed.
Posted By: mickm

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/29/14 11:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:


wow, how do you replace a sleeve at the track?

putting in a sleeve seems like a lot of specific, detailed machine work, not to mention honing. do you pre hone the sleeves?




Yes, it's not rocket science. Match a piston to a sleeve ahead of time. Just hard work and you beat the replacement sleeve back in with BFH and heavy steel plate. The flats on the sleeves determine if it's in right. No machine work needed.




makes sense, but i never would have thought it could be done that easily…

nice to know!
Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/30/14 01:55 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


wow, how do you replace a sleeve at the track?

putting in a sleeve seems like a lot of specific, detailed machine work, not to mention honing. do you pre hone the sleeves?




Yes, it's not rocket science. Match a piston to a sleeve ahead of time. Just hard work and you beat the replacement sleeve back in with BFH and heavy steel plate. The flats on the sleeves determine if it's in right. No machine work needed.




makes sense, but i never would have thought it could be done that easily…

nice to know!




he forgot to mention he runs .009- .010 piston to wall
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/30/14 02:15 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


wow, how do you replace a sleeve at the track?

putting in a sleeve seems like a lot of specific, detailed machine work, not to mention honing. do you pre hone the sleeves?




Yes, it's not rocket science. Match a piston to a sleeve ahead of time. Just hard work and you beat the replacement sleeve back in with BFH and heavy steel plate. The flats on the sleeves determine if it's in right. No machine work needed.




makes sense, but i never would have thought it could be done that easily…

nice to know!




he forgot to mention he runs .009- .010 piston to wall






And I think he had some trained helpers too.
Posted By: roadhazard

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/30/14 04:05 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


wow, how do you replace a sleeve at the track?

putting in a sleeve seems like a lot of specific, detailed machine work, not to mention honing. do you pre hone the sleeves?




Yes, it's not rocket science. Match a piston to a sleeve ahead of time. Just hard work and you beat the replacement sleeve back in with BFH and heavy steel plate. The flats on the sleeves determine if it's in right. No machine work needed.




makes sense, but i never would have thought it could be done that easily…

nice to know!




he forgot to mention he runs .009- .010 piston to wall






And I think he had some trained helpers too.





And if my motor needs that much help I put it in the box and have a
Posted By: Biginchmopar

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/30/14 06:31 AM



Posted By: rickseeman

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/30/14 03:48 PM

Instead of calling a BAE billet "the best" I would call it unusable for the OP's application. I would call a KB "the best".

Altho you can pull the sleeves out of a top fuel hemi at the track with a sleeve puller, you might want to eat your Wheaties before you try that on a street hemi block.
Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/30/14 03:55 PM

I heat the block with my propane forced air heater for 20 minutes, slide the old one out snd send the chilled new one in. I still need to make the hole round after though
Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/30/14 06:16 PM

Quote:

I heat the block with my propane forced air heater for 20 minutes, slide the old one out snd send the chilled new one in. I still need to make the hole round after though


If the sleeve is junk, which obviously it is if you are removing it..........weld a piece of 1" angle iron about 6" long in the sleeve. Weld up both sides with a wire welder. When you turn the block over, the sleeve FALLS out. I personally don't like to heat the block much, unless I am taking ALL the sleeves out. In that case we have an old commercial oven that will hold a block. A few minutes on "BAKE" and they fall out easily.............lol

Monte
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/30/14 08:11 PM

I'm absolutely frigging speechless!!! I just got off the phone with Ken Black not even five minutes ago. I put my order and money in for a new block January 20th. I was quoted 12 weeks. I haven't heard a word. So I thought I'd give him a call. He just told me that my block hasn't even left the foundry yet!!!!!!! WTF!!!
I'm so pissed off right now I don't know what to do. That just TOTALLY killed any hope of me racing this year.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/30/14 08:20 PM

That is unfortunate for sure.
Posted By: jcc

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/30/14 08:30 PM

I have no dog in this fight, but this whole delivery time matter doesn't add up IMO. I understand if this was new product under development, like a well respected 5spd, who only wants to deliver 100% product. But these blocks have been in the pipeline for decades. There are a lot less parts, and the owners put down 50% and they don't seem to be dirt cheap. So the initial capital should be there, the expertise should be there, if they are waiting on outside items, do they require a min number ordered before production starts, and then what is taking place, the entire shop goes on vacation, and waits, are the orders so unpredictable every season that demand always outstrips supply every year, is this a case of a talented engineering staff is in over their heads on running a business and providing customer service? I can see longer lead times on start up, and wonder what the actual production time is on one single block, and why it then takes 6 months, and no reduction is in sight. This should be fixable, if the will is there, if not, a replacement will soon be lurking on the sidelines.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/30/14 08:58 PM

Quote:

That is unfortunate for sure.




Al_Alguire-
I just have to say... I love your Barracuda. I've seen it at my race track in Boise, Id.

This whole block disaster just killed me for any racing this year.
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/30/14 09:24 PM

See if you can cancel your order an get and Indy block. Then you can sent it to the machine shop of your choice to have it finished and checked out. You might want to read the yellowbullet thread about Indy BEFORE you make your final decision.

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=730714.
Posted By: BradH

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/30/14 09:29 PM

Quote:

... rumors that it takes 6 to 9 months to get one...



Sounds to me like those rumors have been confirmed.

Wish I had one; glad I don't need one.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/30/14 10:36 PM

Quote:

I have no dog in this fight, but this whole delivery time matter doesn't add up IMO. I understand if this was new product under development, like a well respected 5spd, who only wants to deliver 100% product. But these blocks have been in the pipeline for decades. There are a lot less parts, and the owners put down 50% and they don't seem to be dirt cheap. So the initial capital should be there, the expertise should be there, if they are waiting on outside items, do they require a min number ordered before production starts, and then what is taking place, the entire shop goes on vacation, and waits, are the orders so unpredictable every season that demand always outstrips supply every year, is this a case of a talented engineering staff is in over their heads on running a business and providing customer service? I can see longer lead times on start up, and wonder what the actual production time is on one single block, and why it then takes 6 months, and no reduction is in sight. This should be fixable, if the will is there, if not, a replacement will soon be lurking on the sidelines.




This whole thing makes me sick. I'm at a total loss
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/30/14 11:20 PM

There are other options out there besides Indy.

Look here if you need something in a more timely manor, I think you will not be disappointed http://www.hpperformancellc.com/
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/31/14 12:30 AM

Thank you. I'll check them out. Now to find out how to get my money from KB........
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/31/14 01:41 AM

Quote:

There are other options out there besides Indy.

Look here if you need something in a more timely manor, I think you will not be disappointed http://www.hpperformancellc.com/




were those the guys at MaTS that you had the paperwork from?
Posted By: dogdays

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/31/14 01:53 AM

One of the problems with being a block "manufacturer" is that they are not really manufacturers. They depend on a foundry which might be far behind or might have a job that pays more per piece and puts them farther back in line. There aren't many places to get a good casting done any more. So all the places that DO make good castings are working overtime.
HPP blocks are cast at Buddy Bar in California, I bet the KB blocks come from the same place.
As I said, there aren't a lot of places that make good castings, at least in the US. It's hot, dirty dangerous work and there is bound to be trouble with the EPA and OSHA every once in a while. Most places have folded up their tent and gone home.

20 years ago I was specing a new Diesel engine for a large pump in the Mississippi valley. We opened the bids and were very pleased to see that it was a Cummins V12. Wow, a really good engine! Installed the beast and while we were firing it up and testing it, I noticed the little tag on the side of the block. "Made in Poona, India"I did some checking and it was the same foundry issue. A large pump manufacturer whose plant I visited told me that all their pump castings came from overseas because they couldn't get quality cast iron poured in the US.

So rag on Ken Black or World or Indy all you want. It won't make things any better for you or for them. The world we live in has changed and it's surprising to many of us, me included.

The idea that forged rods, pistons and crankshafts are growing on trees, while one can't get a decent block in which to install them, has me reeling.

R.
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/31/14 02:26 AM

Kind of what I was thinking..... the law of supply and demand at work. It's not like these places can have 100 of these poured and machined and then wait for the public to beat their doors down with purchases.
Posted By: camastomcat

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/31/14 02:40 AM

All I can say is, when someone expects you to let them hold a few thousand or more of your $$$ for 5-6 months or longer, while they get you a part like a cylinder block, that's totally unacceptable. And when someone sells you a brand new one that is essentially junk needing leaks fixed and say's we'll fix it if you send it to us and pay the freight back, it's an unacceptable business practice. I would be out of business in a few months if I operated like that. Do these people think they are something special or something? It's BS and shouldn't tolerated. Of we keep accepting this as the norm, it will be! Call HP Performance and anyone else that does what they say they will. Appreciate these vendors and hopefully, they will do the same.
Posted By: jcc

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 05/31/14 05:03 AM

Quote:

Kind of what I was thinking..... the law of supply and demand at work. It's not like these places can have 100 of these poured and machined and then wait for the public to beat their doors down with purchases.




Why not? Seems like they ARE beating the doors down, and what is the percentage of the cost of the raw casting in the big picture (always thought the real cost was the machine work), are there that many variations of castings, and the machining could/should wait until order/deposit is received anyway.

Bottom line, this current method doesn't seem to be making many happy, and we all know what the outcomes is when customers are unhappy.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/02/14 05:02 PM

UPDATE:
I talked to KB at 6PM mountain time on Friday(May 30th). He told me he would go to the foundry Monday morning and pick my block up personally. He said my block will be done in two weeks. How is that even possible, when the normal time is 12 weeks from the time you place your order?
Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/02/14 06:13 PM

Quote:

UPDATE:
I talked to KB at 6PM mountain time on Friday(May 30th). He told me he would go to the foundry Monday morning and pick my block up personally. He said my block will be done in two weeks. How is that even possible, when the normal time is 12 weeks from the time you place your order?




only thing I can figure is he's probably reading this thread and going to move you to the front of the line
Posted By: jcc

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/02/14 07:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

UPDATE:
I talked to KB at 6PM mountain time on Friday(May 30th). He told me he would go to the foundry Monday morning and pick my block up personally. He said my block will be done in two weeks. How is that even possible, when the normal time is 12 weeks from the time you place your order?




only thing I can figure is he's probably reading this thread and going to move you to the front of the line




WEll then, it might be best if I refrain from any further comments until after OP gets his finished block.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/02/14 08:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

UPDATE:
I talked to KB at 6PM mountain time on Friday(May 30th). He told me he would go to the foundry Monday morning and pick my block up personally. He said my block will be done in two weeks. How is that even possible, when the normal time is 12 weeks from the time you place your order?




only thing I can figure is he's probably reading this thread and going to move you to the front of the line




I wish!
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/02/14 08:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

UPDATE:
I talked to KB at 6PM mountain time on Friday(May 30th). He told me he would go to the foundry Monday morning and pick my block up personally. He said my block will be done in two weeks. How is that even possible, when the normal time is 12 weeks from the time you place your order?




only thing I can figure is he's probably reading this thread and going to move you to the front of the line




WEll then, it might be best if I refrain from any further comments until after OP gets his finished block.




Comment away!!!
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/02/14 11:15 PM

I've been saving for this block for over 10 years and I'm going to take my time ordering comparable quality internal part and putting it together so a few extra weeks isn't going to hurt me. But I under the frustration expresses from those of you that were planning to use your KB block for this season.

I've had a very good experience working with Ken but like I said I'm not under the gun so the delays aren't impacting my plans for this year.

He said they would be installing the sleeves in my block today so I expect it to be shipped this week.

Posted By: jcc

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/03/14 12:05 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

UPDATE:
I talked to KB at 6PM mountain time on Friday(May 30th). He told me he would go to the foundry Monday morning and pick my block up personally. He said my block will be done in two weeks. How is that even possible, when the normal time is 12 weeks from the time you place your order?




only thing I can figure is he's probably reading this thread and going to move you to the front of the line




WEll then, it might be best if I refrain from any further comments until after OP gets his finished block.




Comment away!!!




Don't say you weren't warned.

If KB is monitoring this thread, they will soon figure out by creating a stink ( well desrerved) online, one can get moved to the front of the line, not a good thing for them as everyone will soon make all their beefs public, especially when for years the buyers have patiently IMo waited 6? months, when to everyone's suprise, if you can get someone to simply drive over and pick up the casted block, they can machine it in 2 weeks, which also IMO, makes KB look unfavorable, because if it can be done this quick, why the long history of 6 month waits?

Hope your block shows up before they read this.
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/03/14 12:18 AM

Ken is a member here so I'm sure he stops in once in awhile. Trust me that when you see the finished product you will be quit pleased.
Posted By: Keith Richards

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/03/14 01:21 AM

Good Luck with your build! Now with that light front end and good traction you might do this...
This is about the 10th pass on my 572 from last weekend, clicked the 60' with the rear ...

Attached picture 8163463-10426593_823939334284770_1329891318531776718_n.jpg
Posted By: sc4400

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/03/14 07:47 AM

I have a very old KB water block, and a Indy Maxx block.

Ken has been very easy to talk with, and has been helpful on my ancient block. But as much as you have to like him, it can be #$%$@ chapping to actually complete a transaction. When I needed 1 sleeve, I heard many stories, but no sleeve for 4-5 months. I know for a fact that he comes on here, because when I came on here about this time last year asking for an alternate sleeve source, he called me that afternoon!

And....walla...a sleeve soon appeared at my door.

But I have to say...Ken, you're only hurting yourself?

People want to give you their money! So you can make a profit!

It falls on you to make things happen. When they don't, it won't matter how nice a guy you are. Your business will fail. And frankly, we need you. The market is a cruel mistress.

I personally have no clue why the story is always long delays, but at some point, there needs to be supply. I hope you can get it done!


RIP
Posted By: Biginchmopar

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/03/14 08:08 AM

Quote:

Good Luck with your build! Now with that light front end and good traction you might do this...
This is about the 10th pass on my 572 from last weekend, clicked the 60' with the rear ...



Time for a set of wheelie bars Keith!
Nice to see the car still works good.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/03/14 01:04 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

UPDATE:
I talked to KB at 6PM mountain time on Friday(May 30th). He told me he would go to the foundry Monday morning and pick my block up personally. He said my block will be done in two weeks. How is that even possible, when the normal time is 12 weeks from the time you place your order?




only thing I can figure is he's probably reading this thread and going to move you to the front of the line




WEll then, it might be best if I refrain from any further comments until after OP gets his finished block.




Comment away!!!




Don't say you weren't warned.

If KB is monitoring this thread, they will soon figure out by creating a stink ( well desrerved) online, one can get moved to the front of the line, not a good thing for them as everyone will soon make all their beefs public, especially when for years the buyers have patiently IMo waited 6? months, when to everyone's suprise, if you can get someone to simply drive over and pick up the casted block, they can machine it in 2 weeks, which also IMO, makes KB look unfavorable, because if it can be done this quick, why the long history of 6 month waits?

Hope your block shows up before they read this.




I agree with what you are saying. BUT I was quoted 12 weeks for my block. I know other people on here ordered their blocks with in a month of mine. They were told that their block is done and waiting for sleeves. Mine isn't even done from the foundry? Where was my Phone call saying it wasn't done and would take a bit longer?
I was told, when I ordered the block, that there were blocks being delivered from the foundry at the moment I made my order and that he was putting my name one one of them. I'm very disappointed! My dream was always to have a KB block. It wasn't supposed to turn out like this.
That being said, I'm sure this will push me past my deadline to have my motor together to make a certain race. I'ts going to take longer than two weeks I'm sure. Plus I don't want something they've hurried thru either!
I've started returning sponsorship monies to the sponsors I had on bored. That has made me look bad I'm sure.
WHAT A FRIGGIN DISASTER!
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/03/14 01:10 PM

Quote:

Good Luck with your build! Now with that light front end and good traction you might do this...
This is about the 10th pass on my 572 from last weekend, clicked the 60' with the rear ...




Could you tell me more about your build please? But find my post "Requesting guidance on a new build.... " I don't want to get accused of high jacking a post again.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/03/14 05:58 PM

Quote:

UPDATE:
I talked to KB at 6PM mountain time on Friday(May 30th). He told me he would go to the foundry Monday morning and pick my block up personally. He said my block will be done in two weeks. How is that even possible, when the normal time is 12 weeks from the time you place your order?




Hey Guess What?!?!?!
Still no call from Ken to tell me if he picked the block up or not.
Posted By: sr4440

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/03/14 06:04 PM

Greg

I know you want a KB block, but if you are tried of waiting, i have a new world block sitting in my spare bedroom and I could have it on a truck by this weekend. just something to consider.

Joe
Posted By: dogdays

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/03/14 06:18 PM

Reading the last post, I was struck by how alike gearheads think. "Gee, new block, where should I put it? SPARE BEDROOM!"

R.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/03/14 08:30 PM

Quote:

I'm absolutely frigging speechless!!! I just got off the phone with Ken Black not even five minutes ago. I put my order and money in for a new block January 20th. I was quoted 12 weeks. I haven't heard a word. So I thought I'd give him a call. He just told me that my block hasn't even left the foundry yet!!!!!!!


I am in almost the exact same situation. I ordered mine Jan 17 (with 1/2 deposit) after several weeks of discussing details/options with him. He assured me of 12-13 weeks and the delivery problems were behind him. He even pulled the head studs for my build (Indy 440-1 heads).

I talk to him every 3 weeks...
In April he said the block had finished heat treatment and was ready to pickup at the foundary. 3 more weeks to machine (including gun drill for pushrod/lifter oiling).
I just got off the phone and he said the block had a porosity issue near the water pump area. So they recast the block (low deck) and it should be ready for him to pickup up at the foundary this week. He said he will call me back this afternoon to confirm foundary pickup date.

Disappointing...
The only thing worse would be if they shipped me a finished block with the porosity issue.
Posted By: Biginchmopar

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/03/14 08:40 PM

I have heard lots of people having problem with porosity from foundry or foundries down in the LA area. I have friends that race fast VW’s 8-7 second air cooled deals and their parts are having the same problems with porosity (the foundry). It sucks that you guys are going through this but at least Ken didn’t send you a block that had problems.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/03/14 09:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm absolutely frigging speechless!!! I just got off the phone with Ken Black not even five minutes ago. I put my order and money in for a new block January 20th. I was quoted 12 weeks. I haven't heard a word. So I thought I'd give him a call. He just told me that my block hasn't even left the foundry yet!!!!!!!


I am in almost the exact same situation. I ordered mine Jan 17 (with 1/2 deposit) after several weeks of discussing details/options with him. He assured me of 12-13 weeks and the delivery problems were behind him. He even pulled the head studs for my build (Indy 440-1 heads).

I talk to him every 3 weeks...
In April he said the block had finished heat treatment and was ready to pickup at the foundary. 3 more weeks to machine (including gun drill for pushrod/lifter oiling).
I just got off the phone and he said the block had a porosity issue near the water pump area. So they recast the block (low deck) and it should be ready for him to pickup up at the foundary this week. He said he will call me back this afternoon to confirm foundary pickup date.

Disappointing...
The only thing worse would be if they shipped me a finished block with the porosity issue.




I'm very happy to hear they caught that issue for you. I'd have an aneurysm if that happened.
But for me, all he would have to have done was to keep me up to date. I shouldn't have to constantly call him for updates. If there was a foundry issue or the sleeve manufacturer was behind etc..., he should have been right on the phone with me letting me know.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/03/14 09:13 PM

Quote:

I have heard lots of people having problem with porosity from foundry or foundries down in the LA area. I have friends that race fast VW’s 8-7 second air cooled deals and their parts are having the same problems with porosity (the foundry). It sucks that you guys are going through this but at least Ken didn’t send you a block that had problems.





I do agree.
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/03/14 09:46 PM

My back-up spare Keith Black block arrived today and am I ever pleased. Ordered it March 32nd so that's pretty quick. Scrubbing it down tonight and should be ready for the dyno by Sunday.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/03/14 09:55 PM

Repairs and new castings are a different beast for sure...No money is laid out in the repair of the old blocks other than internal labor.

Ya know you hear lots of rumors in this sport/hobby/business and I have found most end up being fairly factual in the end.

I hope everyone with one on order receives it. I know they will be happy with the quality once they do. As I said before just be honest and up front about any and all issues. Afterall there must be a reason you need to put down money up front....
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/03/14 10:21 PM

Quote:

My back-up spare Keith Black block arrived today and am I ever pleased. Ordered it March 32nd so that's pretty quick. Scrubbing it down tonight and should be ready for the dyno by Sunday.




What all did you have done to your block? if you don't mind me asking..
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/03/14 10:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My back-up spare Keith Black block arrived today and am I ever pleased. Ordered it March 32nd so that's pretty quick. Scrubbing it down tonight and should be ready for the dyno by Sunday.




What all did you have done to your block? if you don't mind me asking..





There are only 31 days in March so I thought I would lighten up the atmosphere around here. Like I said earlier I knew going into this there would be a waiting period so I ran my 500 cube engine in the car till I had my 572 ready. Never missed a beat that way. Mine is sitting on the engine stand while I have some fun with my 408 in the Duster, then it will be put to use. The only thing I was sorry about not getting when I ordered it was drilled for push-rod oiling for my individual T&D rockers. I had Tom Hemphill do it for me and it turned out very nice.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/03/14 11:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

My back-up spare Keith Black block arrived today and am I ever pleased. Ordered it March 32nd so that's pretty quick. Scrubbing it down tonight and should be ready for the dyno by Sunday.




What all did you have done to your block? if you don't mind me asking..





There are only 31 days in March so I thought I would lighten up the atmosphere around here. Like I said earlier I knew going into this there would be a waiting period so I ran my 500 cube engine in the car till I had my 572 ready. Never missed a beat that way. Mine is sitting on the engine stand while I have some fun with my 408 in the Duster, then it will be put to use. The only thing I was sorry about not getting when I ordered it was drilled for push-rod oiling for my individual T&D rockers. I had Tom Hemphill do it for me and it turned out very nice.




I was trying to hint at the time frame. but it didn't come out like it did in my tiny brain
ha ha ha
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/04/14 11:23 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm absolutely frigging speechless!!! I just got off the phone with Ken Black not even five minutes ago. I put my order and money in for a new block January 20th. I was quoted 12 weeks. I haven't heard a word. So I thought I'd give him a call. He just told me that my block hasn't even left the foundry yet!!!!!!!


I am in almost the exact same situation. I ordered mine Jan 17 (with 1/2 deposit) after several weeks of discussing details/options with him. He assured me of 12-13 weeks and the delivery problems were behind him. He even pulled the head studs for my build (Indy 440-1 heads).

I talk to him every 3 weeks...
In April he said the block had finished heat treatment and was ready to pickup at the foundary. 3 more weeks to machine (including gun drill for pushrod/lifter oiling).
I just got off the phone and he said the block had a porosity issue near the water pump area. So they recast the block (low deck) and it should be ready for him to pickup up at the foundary this week. He said he will call me back this afternoon to confirm foundary pickup date.

Disappointing...
The only thing worse would be if they shipped me a finished block with the porosity issue.




When I called Ken to ask him about my block, I heard about yours. Do you have any new updates?
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/04/14 03:04 PM

Quote:

When I called Ken to ask him about my block, I heard about yours. Do you have any new updates?


As I posted yesterday, that is my current status. He didn't call me back yesterday with the foundary pick up date like he said on the phone. I was ready to assemble my engine back in April when my custom pistons arrived. And those were weeks late also. When I ordered my block on Jan 17, 13 weeks would have been April 17.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/04/14 03:37 PM

Quote:

Quote:

When I called Ken to ask him about my block, I heard about yours. Do you have any new updates?


As I posted yesterday, that is my current status. He didn't call me back yesterday with the foundary pick up date like he said on the phone. I was ready to assemble my engine back in April when my custom pistons arrived. And those were weeks late also. When I ordered my block on Jan 17, 13 weeks would have been April 17.




I called him yesterday evening.
I believe that he is suppose to be picking your block and my block up today or tomorrow. That's why I asked if you had an update on your block
Posted By: Sammy

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/04/14 07:13 PM

This is so sad to hear how this is an ongoing problem with KB.
I had my block ordered and waited so long that I cancelled it when one came for sale on racingjunk.
Ken called me a few days and said mine was being machined so someone got one pretty early.
I was hearing so many bad stories that I couldn't take the chance so I bailed on the one he had for me.
Posted By: Biginchmopar

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/04/14 07:35 PM

You won't get a better block, Period. The wait is not fun but in the end it is well worth it.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/04/14 07:43 PM

Quote:

This is so sad to hear how this is an ongoing problem with KB.
I had my block ordered and waited so long that I cancelled it when one came for sale on racingjunk.
Ken called me a few days and said mine was being machined so someone got one pretty early.
I was hearing so many bad stories that I couldn't take the chance so I bailed on the one he had for me.




That really sucks!
Its a crap deal no matter how you look at it.
I had to give sponsor ship money back to a few sponsors because I can't make my promised dates. With out a doubt that looks bad on me. I had nothing to do with it. It was out of my control. And that just adds more fuel to the fire.
Posted By: Dodgeguy101

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/04/14 08:14 PM

I understand the frustration, but some of you are beating a dead horse.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/04/14 08:21 PM

Quote:





I had to give sponsor ship money back to a few sponsors because I can't make my promised dates. With out a doubt that looks bad on me. I had nothing to do with it. It was out of my control. And that just adds more fuel to the fire.




Just curious as to just how big this "sponsorship" was ? You didn't steal away John Forces Castrol deal did you ?
Posted By: jcc

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/04/14 08:28 PM

I'm going to try and make a funny here:

Quote:

I have heard lots of people having problem with porosity from foundry or foundries down in the LA area. I have friends that race fast VW’s 8-7 second air cooled deals and their parts are having the same problems with porosity (the foundry).




But aren't air cooled motors supposed to be porous?
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/04/14 08:37 PM

Quote:

You won't get a better block, Period. The wait is not fun but in the end it is well worth it.




I'm sure hoping so. That's the only thing keeping me sane at the moment!
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/04/14 08:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:





I had to give sponsor ship money back to a few sponsors because I can't make my promised dates. With out a doubt that looks bad on me. I had nothing to do with it. It was out of my control. And that just adds more fuel to the fire.




Just curious as to just how big this "sponsorship" was ? You didn't steal away John Forces Castrol deal did you ?




I wish! But if I had a big name or a big sponsor like that, this wouldn't be happening. IMO
Posted By: Biginchmopar

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/05/14 12:33 AM

Quote:

I'm going to try and make a funny here:

Quote:

I have heard lots of people having problem with porosity from foundry or foundries down in the LA area. I have friends that race fast VW’s 8-7 second air cooled deals and their parts are having the same problems with porosity (the foundry).




But aren't air cooled motors supposed to be porous?




Very porous after a 7 second quarter mile run.
Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/05/14 06:28 AM

Quote:

You won't get a better block, Period. The wait is not fun but in the end it is well worth it.


No doubt the KB is a good piece......but for 99.9% of the people using these blocks, an INDY would serve just as well. INDY gets criticized for their customer service( I've never had issues), but they make a nice block that you can GET in a timely manner. I have used several in some fairly high HP stuff and never had an issue.

Monte
Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/05/14 12:15 PM

Quote:

There are other options out there besides Indy.

Look here if you need something in a more timely manor, I think you will not be disappointed http://www.hpperformancellc.com/







Al, don't they do Hemi Blocks only.??



Chris..
Posted By: boatracer572

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/05/14 01:08 PM

Quote:

Quote:

There are other options out there besides Indy.

Look here if you need something in a more timely manor, I think you will not be disappointed http://www.hpperformancellc.com/







Al, don't they do Hemi Blocks only.??

HP builds wedge blocks also..... Very nice looking piece!!!



Chris..




Attached picture 8166352-image.jpg
Posted By: VPofGreen

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/05/14 02:46 PM

Has anyone been able to get a block from HP recently? I've been trying for well over a month to get an aluminum piece and while I can get in touch with them, every time the status is "next week".... but no dice! Very frustrating, I would like to use their stuff. Like others, running out of time for this year

Thx-Mike
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/05/14 08:54 PM

Quote:

Has anyone been able to get a block from HP recently? I've been trying for well over a month to get an aluminum piece and while I can get in touch with them, every time the status is "next week".... but no dice! Very frustrating, I would like to use their stuff. Like others, running out of time for this year

Thx-Mike




I'm very sorry to hear that. I feel your pain. I'm out for the year.
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/06/14 03:21 AM

Just spoke to ken, the sleeves have been installed. Tomorrow it will be final honed and final inspection and then shipped tomorrow or Monday!
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/06/14 03:44 AM

Quote:

Just spoke to ken, the sleeves have been installed. Tomorrow it will be final honed and final inspection and then shipped tomorrow or Monday!





Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/06/14 07:08 AM

Awesome!!
Posted By: RT540

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/06/14 11:16 AM

some companies needs a penalty for not keeping their delivery time, and that can only be money involved, lets say that they should not promize better that 16 weeks, and for each week over, the prize will drop 5% from the total prize.
If you pay 50% in advance, you Will either get a block! or you will be compensated with a cheaper product.

A written contract by both parties.
We have customers that demand this type of contracts for us.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/06/14 12:36 PM

Quote:

some companies needs a penalty for not keeping their delivery time, and that can only be money involved, lets say that they should not promize better that 16 weeks, and for each week over, the prize will drop 5% from the total prize.
If you pay 50% in advance, you Will either get a block! or you will be compensated with a cheaper product.

A written contract by both parties.
We have customers that demand this type of contracts for us.




I'm a CNC machinist/programmer. There is a fairly new law that the government implemented on manufacturing. If you do any manufacturing jobs for the government and you don't complete the job by the contracted date. you will not get paid. Period.
I wish that went for all manufacturing for everyone.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/06/14 12:40 PM

Quote:

Just spoke to ken, the sleeves have been installed. Tomorrow it will be final honed and final inspection and then shipped tomorrow or Monday!




That's great to hear!!
Posted By: jcc

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/06/14 03:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:



A written contract by both parties.
We have customers that demand this type of contracts for us.




I'm a CNC machinist/programmer. There is a fairly new law that the government implemented on manufacturing. If you do any manufacturing jobs for the government and you don't complete the job by the contracted date. you will not get paid. Period.
I wish that went for all manufacturing for everyone.




However since we can't have dozen page lawyer reviewed/approved "what isn't mentioned, is included" contracts, and then nothing would happen, we could to help the shops out also have the understanding, that when they rush/deliver a block, they get paid in 7? days, or their price goes up 5%? a week, its got to be fair to both sides, just sayin.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/06/14 04:04 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



A written contract by both parties.
We have customers that demand this type of contracts for us.




I'm a CNC machinist/programmer. There is a fairly new law that the government implemented on manufacturing. If you do any manufacturing jobs for the government and you don't complete the job by the contracted date. you will not get paid. Period.
I wish that went for all manufacturing for everyone.




However since we can't have dozen page lawyer reviewed/approved "what isn't mentioned, is included" contracts, and then nothing would happen, we could to help the shops out also have the understanding, that when they rush/deliver a block, they get paid in 7? days, or their price goes up 5%? a week, its got to be fair to both sides, just sayin.




I do agree.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/12/14 01:37 PM

Quote:

Quote:

When I called Ken to ask him about my block, I heard about yours. Do you have any new updates?


As I posted yesterday, that is my current status. He didn't call me back yesterday with the foundary pick up date like he said on the phone. I was ready to assemble my engine back in April when my custom pistons arrived. And those were weeks late also. When I ordered my block on Jan 17, 13 weeks would have been April 17.




440Jim-
Any updates on your block yet?
I talked with him last night. He couldn't even find my order now!
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/19/14 06:32 PM

It's here! More pictures when I get home, sent dad to pick it up for me while I was at work today.

Attached picture 8181123-image.jpg
Posted By: Cheatham

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/19/14 06:42 PM

i know that feeling
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/19/14 06:55 PM

Quote:

It's here! More pictures when I get home, sent dad to pick it up for me while I was at work today.




You lucky dog!!!!
Right on!!
Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/19/14 09:58 PM

Right on schedule.. 6-9 months.
Dec. 3rd to June 19th..


But it will be a nice piece.




Chris..
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 12:11 AM

Three weeks ago I was told 2 more weeks. so I called last Wednesday (the 11th) and was told that my block was shipping the next day! Then I hear him say oops...I cant find any of your paperwork. let me call you right back. No call...So I call the next day. I was told it would be at least 2 more weeks

I'm sure everyone is tired of hearing about my problem/experience, and I'm sorry.
I made my order in January. I had a 8 week window to get my block and get it put together and in my car. Then a weekend of testing. Tomorrow the 20th and Saturday the 21st was when I was to be on the track racing. I've lost $4,500 to $5,000 between what I had to return to sponsors and sponsors that I had to cancel with because of not being able to race my car. Not to mention my reputation for canceling business deals. A couple of them were pissed!
Hopefully people will read and learn something from ALL of us on here, and listen to whats being said. Not just at Ken, but at any of the part manufacturers.

It's almost to the point of being comical. It honestly feels like a bad dream.

Someone else on here said that Ken is a member on here and reads the posts periodically. I wonder if he knows that there is a post just about him and his company? I wonder if he knows how many people have commented, good and bad? Maybe he doesn't care. It is what it is...
Posted By: boatracer572

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 01:26 AM

Quote:

Three weeks ago I was told 2 more weeks. so I called last Wednesday (the 11th) and was told that my block was shipping the next day! Then I hear him say oops...I cant find any of your paperwork. let me call you right back. No call...So I call the next day. I was told it would be at least 2 more weeks

I'm sure everyone is tired of hearing about my problem/experience, and I'm sorry.
I made my order in January. I had a 8 week window to get my block and get it put together and in my car. Then a weekend of testing. Tomorrow the 20th and Saturday the 21st was when I was to be on the track racing. I've lost $4,500 to $5,000 between what I had to return to sponsors and sponsors that I had to cancel with because of not being able to race my car. Not to mention my reputation for canceling business deals. A couple of them were pissed!
Hopefully people will read and learn something from ALL of us on here, and listen to whats being said. Not just at Ken, but at any of the part manufacturers.

It's almost to the point of being comical. It honestly feels like a bad dream.

Someone else on here said that Ken is a member on here and reads the posts periodically. I wonder if he knows that there is a post just about him and his company? I wonder if he knows how many people have commented, good and bad? Maybe he doesn't care. It is what it is...



I would hope Ken has been reading this thread from the beginning. some have thrown his company under the bus, some have defended his dealings.I think KB is doing what they can for each and every customer that places an order.I have never heard one person say they were "Burned" by KB, this says a lot in my book!

Attached picture 8181525-securedownload(14).jpg
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 10:51 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Three weeks ago I was told 2 more weeks. so I called last Wednesday (the 11th) and was told that my block was shipping the next day! Then I hear him say oops...I cant find any of your paperwork. let me call you right back. No call...So I call the next day. I was told it would be at least 2 more weeks

I'm sure everyone is tired of hearing about my problem/experience, and I'm sorry.
I made my order in January. I had a 8 week window to get my block and get it put together and in my car. Then a weekend of testing. Tomorrow the 20th and Saturday the 21st was when I was to be on the track racing. I've lost $4,500 to $5,000 between what I had to return to sponsors and sponsors that I had to cancel with because of not being able to race my car. Not to mention my reputation for canceling business deals. A couple of them were pissed!
Hopefully people will read and learn something from ALL of us on here, and listen to whats being said. Not just at Ken, but at any of the part manufacturers.

It's almost to the point of being comical. It honestly feels like a bad dream.

Someone else on here said that Ken is a member on here and reads the posts periodically. I wonder if he knows that there is a post just about him and his company? I wonder if he knows how many people have commented, good and bad? Maybe he doesn't care. It is what it is...



I would hope Ken has been reading this thread from the beginning. some have thrown his company under the bus, some have defended his dealings.I think KB is doing what they can for each and every customer that places an order.I have never heard one person say they were "Burned" by KB, this says a lot in my book!




Please don't take anything I've said, as me throwing Ken under the bus. He has always been nice to me on the phone. All I'm doing is giving my experiences with ordering my KB block(per the subject of the post).
I'm in manufacturing. So I do feel a bit burned over this deal so far. I was given a 12 week due date. I had figured 13 or 14 from experience in manufacturing. I relied on that and lost a fair chunk of money and worst of all my racing season. So if he told me 12 weeks but really meant 26 weeks, he should say so. People wouldn't be so frustrated. Look at it this way...If he quoted 26 weeks and got it done in 12 weeks, people would think he's just that much more awesome!
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 01:37 PM

Pic 1

Attached picture 8181935-image.jpg
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 01:38 PM

Pic 2

Attached picture 8181937-image.jpg
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 01:39 PM

Pic 3

Attached picture 8181938-image.jpg
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 01:40 PM

Pic 4

Attached picture 8181939-image.jpg
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 01:41 PM

Pic 5

Attached picture 8181940-image.jpg
Posted By: Bigcube

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 01:41 PM

Looks good! Be prepared to grind those push rod holes.
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 01:41 PM

Pic 7

Attached picture 8181942-image.jpg
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 01:42 PM

Pic 6

Attached picture 8181944-image.jpg
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 01:44 PM

I was wondering about that, looks like I will need to do a bunch of clearancing for push rods for the -1s

I did check my austrailian belt drive plate/cover I I won't need to grinde anything for that.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 01:47 PM

WadeMetzinger-
Dude that looks so friggin sweet!!!

Is it everything you were hoping for?
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 01:50 PM

Pic 8. Not sure where all of this stuff goes yes. I can't tell if ther are two side seals in that package.

I like the oil restrictors they sent, I think they are Moroso. The screw in the back oil galley and restrict the oil to the lifter galley down to .060.

I have no idea what and where they go, the 2" long plugs.

Head studs, oil pan studs, timing cover studs all included.

Attached picture 8181949-image.jpg
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 01:51 PM

Inspection sheet

Attached picture 8181951-image.jpg
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 01:53 PM

Last one

Attached picture 8181954-image.jpg
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 01:55 PM

Quote:

WadeMetzinger-
Dude that looks so friggin sweet!!!

Is it everything you were hoping for?




Yes sir it is!

Hope to build it this winter. I'd like to put a st of Edelbrock Victor heads on it. It'll probably never see 800hp and last me a forever.
Posted By: Bigcube

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 02:16 PM

Just thought of another thing. The bottom bolts on the bell housing are not drilled the correct size for a stock tranny. I recall they are 3/8 but you need to drill them out for 7/16.

I didn't know they could do a dipstick hole. When I got mine that was not an option.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 02:32 PM

Quote:

Just thought of another thing. The bottom bolts on the bell housing are not drilled the correct size for a stock tranny. I recall they are 3/8 but you need to drill them out for 7/16.

I didn't know they could do a dipstick hole. When I got mine that was not an option.




Yeah I opted for a tapped dip stick hole. I should say I asked for one.
My Bell Housing is all the ATI conversion stuff to run a Glide
Posted By: GY3

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 03:20 PM

Man, that's nice!
Posted By: jcc

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 03:21 PM

I haven't seen anybody thrown under the bus on this thread yet. I have seen a vocal frustrated customer vent, and that is to be expected when timeframes/expectaions are not met. So either improve delivery, or lower the expectations, and threads like this will disappear.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 03:36 PM

Quote:

I haven't seen anybody thrown under the bus on this thread yet. I have seen a vocal frustrated customer vent, and that is to be expected when timeframes/expectaions are not met. So either improve delivery, or lower the expectations, and threads like this will disappear.




I can agree with that
Posted By: hustlin hoosier

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 03:47 PM

If anyone is interested I have new in the box KB hemi block , raised cam raised deck. I sell for my cost, $6800 812 276 8582. With oil galleys drilled.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 03:54 PM

Could I hear a little bit more of the specifics of the block?
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 03:57 PM

Quote:

Just thought of another thing. The bottom bolts on the bell housing are not drilled the correct size for a stock tranny. I recall they are 3/8 but you need to drill them out for 7/16.

I didn't know they could do a dipstick hole. When I got mine that was not an option.




Thanks BigCube! I'm also running a glide with a J&W ultra-bell but I will check that.

I didn't realize that there would be so many places to access the oil passages. On my mega block I had 5 lines utilizing the 2 ports in the back by the bell housing flange. 2 lines for the Indy heads, oil pressure, low oil pressure sending unit and the oil line to the oil accumulator.

Does anyone know which port on the side of the block would be the best to use for the oil accumulator? I use it to pressurize before starting and when going down track. Don't want it to just dump it into the pan, but maybe it doesn't matter as they are all pressurized?

Please pass along any other tips you have.

I noticed 2 larger holes with heli coils in the bell flange, not sure what they are for. They look to be 7/16 or 1/2.
Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 04:23 PM

Quote:

Just thought I'd post my KB ordering experience since I've heard rumors that it takes 6 to 9 months to get one. In late Nov I called and requested a KB block order form, filed it out and sent it in and on Dec 3 Ken Black called me and we discussed my order and he took the 1st payment (which is half of the cost of the block, including shipping).

He told me they were running about 12 week from ordering to shipping, which was fine with me since I didn't need it to start out the season.






So in review, the 6-9 months was the correct number.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 07:10 PM

Quote:

Just thought of another thing. The bottom bolts on the bell housing are not drilled the correct size for a stock tranny. I recall they are 3/8 but you need to drill them out for 7/16.

I didn't know they could do a dipstick hole. When I got mine that was not an option.


I ordered mine with the dip stick hole drilled. It is an option to check on the order sheet. I also ordered my lower two transmission holes drilled for a 727, see attached marked in green. The other labels are what KB sent me when I discussed it with him.

Attached File
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 07:23 PM

I talked to Ken a few minutes ago, the last call was on 6/3 and he thought the recast low deck might be ready to pick up from the foundry that week.
Today he said he hasn't picked it up from the foundry yet, but it should be ready...
I asked him to check and get it into machining as soon as possible, ordered on... etc. He said when he gets it from the foundry it will be machined right away.

Wade, can you check the head studs you got for the Indy heads? I had lots of discussion and exchange of info with KB. Use this attached pic for reference and let me know the dimensions you got. The pic is not a KB stud, just for visual reference.
Thanks,
Jim

Attached picture 8182248-Head_Studs_440-1.jpg
Posted By: Biginchmopar

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 07:38 PM

Just for reference my block is a Hemi block and the studs are 1/2" in the block and 7/16" from the deck surface up. They were special made for my application.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 07:44 PM

Quote:

Looks good! Be prepared to grind those push rod holes.


Before I ordered mine, I asked Ken about push rod clearance. I couldn't get a good answer other than all that extra material needed for a hemi head is still there on the 440 blocks. So I am planning on machining the pushrod holes on my Bridgeport milling machine. i.e. I am ready to remove a bunch of aluminum (440-1 heads).

I will try and document it and send it to KB when I am done so they could make that option for 440-1 heads... if he wants to make a CNC program while the blocks are being machined.
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 08:02 PM

Quote:

I talked to Ken a few minutes ago, the last call was on 6/3 and he thought the recast low deck might be ready to pick up from the foundry that week.
Today he said he hasn't picked it up from the foundry yet, but it should be ready...
I asked him to check and get it into machining as soon as possible, ordered on... etc. He said when he gets it from the foundry it will be machined right away.

Wade, can you check the head studs you got for the Indy heads? I had lots of discussion and exchange of info with KB. Use this attached pic for reference and let me know the dimensions you got. The pic is not a KB stud, just for visual reference.
Thanks,
Jim




Jim, I'll check but it will be next week. The studs were the only thing Ken didn't have in stock but he ordered them this week and they are being sent directly to me from ARP. So once I get them I'll provide measurements.

I was thinking they were special, meaning they were 1/2" in the block and then necked down to 7/16 at the deck for the 440-1 heads, I didn't notice what size they were when looking at it last night.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 08:09 PM

Quote:

Jim, I'll check but it will be next week. The studs were the only thing Ken didn't have in stock but he ordered them this week and they are being sent directly to me from ARP. So once I get them I'll provide measurements.

I was thinking they were special, meaning they were 1/2" in the block and then necked down to 7/16 at the deck for the 440-1 heads, I didn't notice what size they were when looking at it last night.


KB does offer 1/2" head bolts as an option. He even said they offer 1/2" in the block and 7/16" through the head. I just ordered 7/16" as shown on your quality check list. I don't know what to think that he didn't have studs for your 440-1 heads. When I ordered my block in January he pulled head studs for my order. I wonder where they are...
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 08:15 PM

Quote:

Just for reference my block is a Hemi block and the studs are 1/2" in the block and 7/16" from the deck surface up. They were special made for my application.




I am thinking about this
Posted By: Dragula

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 08:18 PM

So the front & rear mains are not cross bolted? I guess I thought all the after market blocks were cross bolted on all five mains....
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 08:42 PM

Quote:

. I don't know what to think that he didn't have studs for your 440-1 heads. When I ordered my block in January he pulled head studs for my order. I wonder where they are...




Right where he left them or I guess someone else may have had one on order before us or maybe he's saving them for you..lol
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 08:48 PM

Quote:

So the front & rear mains are not cross bolted? I guess I thought all the after market blocks were cross bolted on all five mains....




KB's do not, IndyMAXX blocks do and I think World block do as well. The 3 main caps in the middle of the KB are huge, they stand about 1.5" beyond the oil pan rail where others are even with the oil pan rail.

My Mega block only has cross bolts on 2, 3 and 4 mains.

The KB water block is rated at 2,500hp, not sure what the others are rated for, maybe it's not necessary or maybe they think the 3 in the middle carry most of the load??
Posted By: Biginchmopar

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/20/14 10:27 PM

You will also notice the rear main cap and rear main seal are all one unit on the KB. Way better design if you ask me.
Posted By: Twostick

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/21/14 12:27 AM

A guy I work with is having the same experience with an LSM billet SBC block. Months overdue. Told him last week it would be ready to pick up in a few days final machining yada yada. Called Friday and the new excuse is the main caps aren't done. How exactly do you do final machining or any other machining for that matter, with no main caps???

He has now had to return sponsor money too.

I don't get the over promise and under deliver business model other than they know their competitors can't deliver any quicker (6-9 months) so they make sure they get a BIG downstroke up front so now you're committed and risk losing your deposit if you cancel to buy someone else's unused block.

I'm really surprised there hasn't been any litigation involved with these deals.

Kevin
Posted By: Gabby63

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/21/14 12:51 AM

Hello , on this photo the webbing is machined off ( drivers side ) at the back of the block . Is there a specific reason for this ? Gary
Posted By: go green

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/21/14 02:00 AM

Quote:

Hello , on this photo the webbing is machined off ( drivers side ) at the back of the block . Is there a specific reason for this ? Gary





starter clearance
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/21/14 04:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Just for reference my block is a Hemi block and the studs are 1/2" in the block and 7/16" from the deck surface up. They were special made for my application.




I am thinking about this


KB and I discussed all the head stud options before I ordered my block. I considered the 1/2 to 7/16 studs but decided against it since if you use any other type head (Indy, Edelbrock, B1, etc.) they all use different studs and you would have to buy special studs for the head change. I don't know if all the hemi heads use the same length studs.
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/24/14 03:55 PM

I thought I'd share a pictures of a few unique things on the KB block

First is a picture of the 2 ARP stainless steel screw in tranny dowel pins. When I first opened the package of block hardware I didn't have a clue what they were for but I did notice the heli-coiled holes on the bell housing flange but I didn't put the them together untill this weekend. I thought this was very nice.

The other item in this picture is the black screw in oil restriction plugs, I think they may be Moroso. They have a hole on the end that goes into the lifter oil galley and then there is also a .060 hole in the tube between the o-ring seal and the treaded end. This will screw into the 2 back lifter oil galley passages. I'm not sure yet if it scews in and seals up at the black flange or if it screw in far enough that a standard NPT plug goes in behind it and actually seals up the oil galley.

Just thought these were pretty cool and thought you guys would like to see these as well.

Attached picture 8186148-image.jpg
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/24/14 06:41 PM

I just got a nice call from Ken Black about 10 minutes ago. He had a quick question about something on my block. He also said that my block should be done Friday.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/25/14 07:22 PM

Good to see your order is almost done.
It looks like your delivery will jump ahead of my order.
I talked to KB on Friday, and he didn't have the casting... and said he will let me know. But no word as of today.

Have you paid the 2nd half of your total?
What heads are you going to use?
if 440-1, see my question about head stud dimensions, when you get yours.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/25/14 07:39 PM

Quote:

Good to see your order is almost done.
It looks like your delivery will jump ahead of my order.
I talked to KB on Friday, and he didn't have the casting... and said he will let me know. But no word as of today.

Have you paid the 2nd half of your total?
What heads are you going to use?
if 440-1, see my question about head stud dimensions.




What the heck is still going on with your casting? How many castings has he found bad?
I'm using Original B1's. I'll be using 1/2" studs.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/25/14 07:48 PM

Quote:

I thought I'd share a pictures of a few unique things on the KB block


Wade,
Good info on the oil restrictors with O-ring seal. Did you happen to notice if your block is tapped for 7/16 or 1/2 head studs? I realize you are waiting for studs dropped shipped from ARP.

Greg, are your B1 heads already drilled out for 1/2 studs?
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 06/25/14 07:59 PM

Nope that's not me. I haven't received mine yet.
KB told me maybe Friday it would get done.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/01/14 04:18 PM

Well Friday(6/27/14) has come and gone.
No call from KB. My block still must not done yet.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/01/14 06:13 PM

I talked to KB today, 7/1.
He has the casting.
He said they are finishing machining for Greg Knight right now and they will start the 1st and 2nd machining operations on mine after that, hopefully Thursday.
Then he sends it out for gun drilling for hydraulic (lifter bore, pushrod oiling), about Friday. Lastly it comes back for final machining.
I asked him to verify he has the head studs for my order, and the MLS head gaskets. He said he will call me at the end of the week (Thurs or Friday?). He mentioned that the 7/16" studs I ordered have not been a problem getting, but sometimes the 1/2" studs take longer.

When I asked a little more detail about the lifter bore/pushrod oiling mod, he mentioned Wade's block and the Moroso oil restrictors (which I liked).
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/01/14 07:10 PM

Quote:

I talked to KB today, 7/1.
He has the casting.
He said they are finishing machining for Greg Knight right now and they will start the 1st and 2nd machining operations on mine after that, hopefully Thursday.
Then he sends it out for gun drilling for hydraulic (lifter bore, pushrod oiling), about Friday. Lastly it comes back for final machining.
I asked him to verify he has the head studs for my order, and the MLS head gaskets. He said he will call me at the end of the week (Thurs or Friday?). He mentioned that the 7/16" studs I ordered have not been a problem getting, but sometimes the 1/2" studs take longer.

When I asked a little more detail about the lifter bore/pushrod oiling mod, he mentioned Wade's block and the Moroso oil restrictors (which I liked).




Thank you.
At least I'm hearing updates from someone
Does he send out the restrictors with all the blocks with pushrod oiling?
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/01/14 08:57 PM

Quote:

At least I'm hearing updates from someone
Does he send out the restrictors with all the blocks with pushrod oiling?




I don't think so, as I had to pay extra for them, not much like $30 or something. So I think you need to ask for them because I think they also need to thread the oil galley so they can be used, so there is some additional machine work. That's what I "think". I do know that I brought this up to him in our discussion when I asked him to gun drill the lifter oil galley, that's when he said he would look into how they could restrict the oil to the galley and get back to me and this is what he came up with, but I would suspect they have done this before.
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/01/14 09:06 PM

Here are links to them and instructions:

Moroso Oil Restrictors

Instructions
Posted By: jyrki

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/01/14 09:07 PM

Those restrictors have been used in chevys for a long time and are readily available from several sources. I have used them in pushrod oiled mopars before, only needs minor modifications to make the chevy stuff work. http://www.summitracing.com/dom/parts/sum-120120/overview/
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/01/14 09:36 PM

It looks like a couple variations are available.
One uses 1/4-18 NPT threads,
the other uses 5/16-18 machine threads.

The pipe thread OD is much larger (about 0.5") compared to the machine thread OD (about 0.3"). So it depends how the block is machined.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/01/14 09:43 PM

Where are you putting them in at exactly?
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/01/14 10:02 PM

If they go in at the back of the galley under the bell housing, isn't it a pain the change them out if you need to adjust them?
Posted By: Airwoofer

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/01/14 10:17 PM

You are gonna run 440-1 heads. Are you going to use the ports on top at the rear of the block for the oil lines? I have a World / 440-1 for my 540 and after seeing the Indy set-up for oiling the heads (flimsey) I made a pair of AN-4 lines and put pipe plugs under each of them after I opened up the threads and reduced the height of the plugs. In each plug I have 0.060 dia holes. A set of 0.090 plugs are waiting if I need more oil to the heads. They can be changed with the engine bolted to the tranny.

Another way of doing the same thing I think.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/01/14 10:33 PM

Push rod oiling.
Original B1's with paired rockers.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/02/14 03:09 PM

Quote:

Another way of doing the same thing I think.


The KB block has a separate oil gallery going to the main bearings first (priority). The restrictors keep high pressure/flow to the main bearings, while reducing pressure/flow to the lifter galleries (lifters, pushrod oiling to the heads). I don't think the lifter galleries are even drilled on most KB blocks, you have to buy that option (I did for pushrod oiling to the heads).

When my block arrives, I will check; but I believe the restrictors allow full pressure to the ports on the rear/top of the block and only reduce pressure to the lifter galleries.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/02/14 04:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Another way of doing the same thing I think.


The KB block has a separate oil gallery going to the main bearings first (priority). The restrictors keep high pressure/flow to the main bearings, while reducing pressure/flow to the lifter galleries (lifters, pushrod oiling to the heads). I don't think the lifter galleries are even drilled on most KB blocks, you have to buy that option (I did for pushrod oiling to the heads).

When my block arrives, I will check; but I believe the restrictors allow full pressure to the ports on the rear/top of the block and only reduce pressure to the lifter galleries.




I ordered mine for push rod oiling.
So when you talked to Ken yesterday, did he give you an ETA? Or did he just say that it will be started this week? We will lose a day this week because of the 4th too.
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/02/14 06:05 PM

Quote:

When my block arrives, I will check; but I believe the restrictors allow full pressure to the ports on the rear/top of the block and only reduce pressure to the lifter galleries.




Jim, I can confirm this. The restrictors go in past the main oil passage so they won't impact the ports on the rear/top of the block.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/02/14 08:19 PM

If you need to adjust the oil flow, isn't it a pain in the a##?
Posted By: Biginchmopar

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/02/14 08:31 PM

I had my lifter bores bushed and put very small holes in the bushings.

Oil control should not be a problem.

Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/03/14 05:15 PM

Quote:

So when you talked to Ken yesterday, did he give you an ETA? Or did he just say that it will be started this week? We will lose a day this week because of the 4th too.


No delivery date. He said he expected to get the 1st and 2nd machining operations done this week and get the block to the other shop to gun drill the lifter galleries no later then Monday. Then back to his shop for finish machining, including the lifter bores.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/03/14 07:44 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So when you talked to Ken yesterday, did he give you an ETA? Or did he just say that it will be started this week? We will lose a day this week because of the 4th too.


No delivery date. He said he expected to get the 1st and 2nd machining operations done this week and get the block to the other shop to gun drill the lifter galleries no later then Monday. Then back to his shop for finish machining, including the lifter bores.




Sounds like its moving along then.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/08/14 03:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So when you talked to Ken yesterday, did he give you an ETA? Or did he just say that it will be started this week? We will lose a day this week because of the 4th too.


No delivery date. He said he expected to get the 1st and 2nd machining operations done this week and get the block to the other shop to gun drill the lifter galleries no later then Monday. Then back to his shop for finish machining, including the lifter bores.




440Jim-
How goes the build?
Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/08/14 03:39 PM

Quote:

Those restrictors have been used in chevys for a long time and are readily available from several sources. I have used them in pushrod oiled mopars before, only needs minor modifications to make the chevy stuff work. http://www.summitracing.com/dom/parts/sum-120120/overview/




As stated above, been used since the beginning of time in Chevies. Its a simple deal. There ARE several different version of them, so be careful if re-ordering. There are early and late style ( depends on the Chevy block). There are different thread version as well. I would suggest getting some extra o-rings for them, as they do have a tendancy to rip or tear coming in and out. No biggie, just keep some spares on hand.Make sure if this happens, you get your little dental pick and get ALL of the oring out. Some are internal hex drive, others are external hex. Your preference. MAKE SURE you lube up the o-ring before installing, and usually a gentle twisting turning motion to help the oring seat.
Posted By: KB RACING ENG

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/09/14 06:37 AM

OK, I thought I would take a little time to send some photos that I just took tonight of Greg's and Jim's blocks. I tried to do this just a little bit ago but the photos caused my post to crash so I will give it another try.

Greg just a final inspection and waiting on our CORE PLUGS from our vendor, they are about two months late but I was told that they shipped today.

Jim, Block is back from gun drill and Tom is just about finished with the sleeves for your Low Deck 440 so it is almost ready for final operations.

I will call both of you with more detailed information tomorrow.



Ken

Not having much luck posting all of the photos so I guess I will have to post one at a time.

Attached picture 8202763-Greg1.JPG
Posted By: KB RACING ENG

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/09/14 06:39 AM

Greg 2

Attached picture 8202765-Greg2.JPG
Posted By: KB RACING ENG

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/09/14 06:40 AM

Jim 1

Attached picture 8202766-Jim1.JPG
Posted By: KB RACING ENG

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/09/14 06:41 AM

Jim 2

Attached picture 8202767-Jim2.JPG
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/09/14 07:05 AM

They sure are Purdy..
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/09/14 11:09 AM

Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside
Posted By: racerx

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/09/14 02:03 PM

Quote:

They sure are Purdy..


^^^what he said^^^
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/09/14 03:53 PM

Quote:

Jim 2


Good to see things are moving along now that machining has started. I was worried about the time for the other shop to gun drill the lifter oil galleries, but they did a quick turn around for you (us).

Thanks,
Jim
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/09/14 06:10 PM

It looks like KB has changed the pushrod clearance holes compared to what Wade received (see his June 20 post in this topic). I wonder if KB will do anymore on the exhaust like Wade's? But the slot versus the hole may just be a low deck vs raised deck thing since Greg's looks like Wade's. I still will have to mock it up with the Indy 440-1 heads and see if any tweaking is needed.

EDIT: Low deck vs Raised deck

Attached picture 8203084-8202767-Jim2small.jpg
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/09/14 06:19 PM

Quote:

It looks like KB has changed the pushrod clearance holes compared to what Wade received (see his June 20 post in this topic). I wonder if KB will do anymore on the exhaust like Wade's? I still will have to mock it up with the Indy 440-1 heads and see if any tweaking is needed.




I noticed that. Why is yours different from mine?
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/09/14 06:41 PM

Jim it is a low deck thing...Mine is the same.
Posted By: jcc

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/09/14 07:57 PM

Looking at those blocks made me forget what this post is all about.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/09/14 08:02 PM

Quote:

Looking at those blocks made me forget what this post is all about.




Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 07/09/14 09:11 PM

Quote:

Looking at those blocks made me forget what this post is all about.






Exactly.!!!!!! That's why I said its worth the wait.
Posted By: d7cook

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 11/06/14 05:41 AM

Did anyone order their block with the oversize sleeves. 4.7 vs 4.62? Any drawback to going oversized to get the .100 thick at 4.5? At 4.7 OD on the sleeve that only leaves .050 aluminum between the sleeves. Would that lead to cracking problems?

I'm getting ready to order a block. Ay input would be appreciated.

Thanks
Posted By: camastomcat

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 11/06/14 06:15 AM

Quote:

Did anyone order their block with the oversize sleeves. 4.7 vs 4.62? Any drawback to going oversized to get the .100 thick at 4.5? At 4.7 OD on the sleeve that only leaves .050 aluminum between the sleeves. Would that lead to cracking problems?

I'm getting ready to order a block. Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks




I had the 4.700 sleeves with no problems.
Posted By: a493demon

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 11/06/14 06:25 AM

I found out the other day my block was the 6th 440 block they made.
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 11/06/14 01:34 PM

Quote:

I found out the other day my block was the 6th 440 block they made.




Was that the 6th ever made? Or 6th for the year?
Posted By: a493demon

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 11/06/14 02:29 PM

ever made
Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 11/06/14 02:45 PM

Quote:

ever made




That's friggin sweet!
Posted By: Airwoofer

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 11/06/14 09:08 PM

The short deck KB block in my KOS Demon has 4.7 sleeves, bored to 4.530 and they are fine.

So far.

Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 12/09/14 01:05 AM

FYI, I weighted my KB and Mega blocks this weekend and there is 90lbs difference.

KB - 185lbs (4.360 bore)
Mega - 275lbs (4.5" bore & weighs 340lbs with crank and cam in it)

The Mega block is from Mopar from the mid 90's, no lightening and no concrete in it.
Posted By: camastomcat

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 12/09/14 02:02 AM

Wade,
How long did the actual delivery take from when you ordered it till you to received it?
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 12/09/14 03:08 AM

Quote:

Did anyone order their block with the oversize sleeves. 4.7 vs 4.62? Any drawback to going oversized to get the .100 thick at 4.5? At 4.7 OD on the sleeve that only leaves .050 aluminum between the sleeves.


I don't understand "aluminum between the sleeves". Here is a picture of my 4.50" bore KB low deck and the sleeves don't have aluminum between them?

Attached picture 8355909-KB_HeadGasket_outline4.JPG
Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 12/09/14 05:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Did anyone order their block with the oversize sleeves. 4.7 vs 4.62? Any drawback to going oversized to get the .100 thick at 4.5? At 4.7 OD on the sleeve that only leaves .050 aluminum between the sleeves.


I don't understand "aluminum between the sleeves". Here is a picture of my 4.50" bore KB low deck and the sleeves don't have aluminum between them?




they do inside. the top is wider than the actual sleeve so the headgasket seals on steel.
Posted By: Hemi_Joel

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 12/09/14 06:42 AM

How do they get those sleeves in there with the flat sides mated so perfectly?
Posted By: astjp2

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 12/09/14 07:40 AM

Quote:

How do they get those sleeves in there with the flat sides mated so perfectly?


Posted By: unknown

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 12/09/14 12:48 PM

Quote:

How do they get those sleeves in there with the flat sides mated so perfectly?


Just a guess, put them in the freezer for a hour or so??
Posted By: d7cook

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 12/09/14 04:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Did anyone order their block with the oversize sleeves. 4.7 vs 4.62? Any drawback to going oversized to get the .100 thick at 4.5? At 4.7 OD on the sleeve that only leaves .050 aluminum between the sleeves.


I don't understand "aluminum between the sleeves". Here is a picture of my 4.50" bore KB low deck and the sleeves don't have aluminum between them?




they do inside. the top is wider than the actual sleeve so the headgasket seals on steel.




I ordered my KB hemi block a couple weeks ago. The size of the sleeve flange must push the steam holes in a hemi deck out from their factory location. KB hemi blocks use their own head gasket that have the holes moved. The holes in the heads need to be moved to match or in the case of stage V they can locate them to match the KB block when they machine them.

Indy blocks apparently just leave the steam holes out. KB does not recommend this because there is no way for the air at the top of the cooling jacket to escape.
Posted By: Airwoofer

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 12/09/14 06:26 PM

Quote:

Did anyone order their block with the oversize sleeves. 4.7 vs 4.62? Any drawback to going oversized to get the .100 thick at 4.5? At 4.7 OD on the sleeve that only leaves .050 aluminum between the sleeves. Would that lead to cracking problems?

I'm getting ready to order a block. Ay input would be appreciated.

Thanks




Oops, looks like I replied before but...

My low deck block has the 4.700 sleeves with o-ring grooves. It is currently bored out at 4.538 and still going strong, but this build up is probably the last time before it needs, er I mean gets new sleeves. It has lead a hard life on spray and with me lots of RPM.

Posted By: boatracer572

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 09/15/15 07:57 AM

any body else have any recent experiences with Keith Black?
Posted By: Cuda 1968

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 01/17/16 12:15 AM

Hello, I am new on the forum. I have a 69 Barracuda built for drag racing.
I have ordered a KB block but it seems to take very long time to get it, have been over a year now. What are your experience? Thanks, Trond.
Posted By: Sammy

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 01/17/16 12:27 AM

Originally Posted By dityharry.44m@gm
Hello, I am new on the forum. I have a 69 Barracuda built for drag racing.
I have ordered a KB block but it seems to take very long time to get it, have been over a year now. What are your experience? Thanks, Trond.



Welcome.
KB's time frame was 7-8 months but now seems to be well over a year. The wait will be worth it but it really stinks to have to wait that long. I cancelled my order with Ken Black after 6 months of waiting.
Posted By: Cuda 1968

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 01/17/16 12:36 AM

Thanks, I am a bit worry for the deal and my money. Will contact KB next week for an update.
Posted By: camastomcat

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 01/17/16 12:39 AM

I hate to say it, but if you ordered one, you better start putting pressure on them. I think they are very close to the end.
Posted By: Sammy

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 01/17/16 01:22 AM

Originally Posted By camastomcat
I hate to say it, but if you ordered one, you better start putting pressure on them. I think they are very close to the end.



I think you are right. Ken Black just can't seem to get it going or to get blocks out the door. He has virtually no inventory and zero cash flow.
Even his workers have to go to Mexico to get medical care.
Posted By: camastomcat

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 01/17/16 02:44 AM

Believe me, it's not like I'm rooting against him. Nobody can continue to stay in business that way. I know people that have been very frustrated with his lack of ability to make good on his commitments. I'm glad I didn't order a raised cam block from him. I guess HP Performance isn't happening either. At least he didn't expect money before delivery when I talked to him.
Posted By: Skypower

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 01/17/16 04:51 AM

Any other suggestions on where to go for a high hp hemi block. Looking to add twin turbos to my setup.
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 01/17/16 05:17 AM

AJE
Posted By: boatracer572

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 01/17/16 06:53 AM

My block ordering experience was horrible, payed almost 8 grand for a block that the decks were .022" shorter than I orderd, varied .003"from one side to the other..me having Pistons alread, Pistons would be .022" out of the bore... kens fix for having the decks to short was to buy me a set of thicker head gaskets, he told me he could not afford to buy me Pistons, and couldn't pay me my money back for a "long time",seal area on the block was welded on, line hone was off, #5 main cap was .0005" to big, could feel parting line(from block to cap) with your finger nail.....waited 20 extra weeks from quoted time to get it...should have, bought a billet block....was it worth the wait?..... NO!!!!!!!!!
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience - 01/19/16 03:23 PM

The MP blocks are supposedly available now.
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