Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60

Posted By: moparniac

Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/24/08 08:51 PM

where do you guys or how are you getting the pinion angle of the dana 60 thx... I have caltracs and no pinion snubber pad...

Iput the angle finder on the back of the tranny seal and on the yoke on the dana 60....

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/24/08 10:09 PM

Quote:

where do you guys or how are you getting the pinion angle of the dana 60 thx... I have caltracs and no pinion snubber pad...

Iput the angle finder on the back of the tranny seal and on the yoke on the dana 60....

NO, the pinion angle as reffferrred to in the Mopar chassis manuals is the difference between the driveshaft and the pinion flange or the seat where the U joints sit against the pinion seats. Does your pinion flange have a machine surface on the outside edges? If so disconnect one of the pinion straps or U bolts so you can accurately measure off of the surface. The driveshaft angle on the front in relationship to the trans is another seperate angle.

There are some racers, book smart people that always throw the trans angle discusion into pinion angle, not the same thing.Two different entitiys, IMO. Which both need to be right to get the car to work properly, again in my opinion

Merry Christmas to all and please have a happy and sane New Year

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/24/08 10:14 PM

You can get the rearend pinion angle off the machined surface that the rear cover plate bolts on or if the cover is on put yor angle finder on the heads of two vertical cover bolts.

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/24/08 10:57 PM

don't listen to these old geezers

Pinion Angle
Tired of breaking cases and drive shafts? There are many books that misled you on setting the pinion angle. For Drag Racing this is simple. You are trying to set the pinion angle to be parallel with the centerline of the engine & transmission on hard acceleration. To achieve this you must first figure out the parallel setting of the rear end to correspond to the angle of the engine & transmission, then add the proper amount of pinion angle. Add 1 deg. for 4-Link vehicles, 2 to 3 deg. for ladder-bar vehicles. Place stands under suspension to duplicate vehicle at ride height. Caution do not remove drive shaft without securing vehicle first. Take measurement with drive shaft removed.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/24/08 11:32 PM

Quote:

don't listen to these old geezers

Pinion Angle
Tired of breaking cases and drive shafts? There are many books that misled you on setting the pinion angle. For Drag Racing this is simple. You are trying to set the pinion angle to be parallel with the centerline of the engine & transmission on hard acceleration. To achieve this you must first figure out the parallel setting of the rear end to correspond to the angle of the engine & transmission, then add the proper amount of pinion angle. Add 1 deg. for 4-Link vehicles, 2 to 3 deg. for ladder-bar vehicles. Place stands under suspension to duplicate vehicle at ride height. Caution do not remove drive shaft without securing vehicle first. Take measurement with drive shaft removed.

Any one can regurgitate what they read in a book or repeat some one else.Are you gonna crap your self when some one disproves Einsteins Theorys?What if you have a trans angle that is acute to the working angle of the rear u-joint.Do you point the pinion nose into the dirt to give it that certain degree of relationship.No,you adjust the trans tail shaft angle to the working angle of the u-joints and the same with the rearend pinion angle,then adjust the negative degress for wrap up alignment under load.The relationship of the trans angle and pinion angle is determined with what links them together,I read somewhere it's called a driveshaft or propeller shaft.Once you establish the geometry of the best working range of the u-joints you have created the plane of alignment.Now you adjust for reaction movement(final alignment under load)static pinion angle to torque load movement.Since the trans is in a fix position and only the rearend rotation is the only reaction movement,1 degree with 4 link,2 degrees with ladder bar and 4 to 6 degrees recommended for ,springs,you are ready to set your pinion angle to the shaft.I read this some where long,long ago.I think this crap was studyed very hard on when driveshafts were were a fixed solid tube with a ball and trunion joint at only one end.Anyone remember those?Your turn

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 12:12 AM

Quote:

Quote:

where do you guys or how are you getting the pinion angle of the dana 60 thx... I have caltracs and no pinion snubber pad...

Iput the angle finder on the back of the tranny seal and on the yoke on the dana 60....

If so disconnect one of the pinion straps or U bolts so you can accurately measure off of the surface.

thats what I did and it was coming up 9* down

ill cehck on the back of the cover bolts....

Posted By: VernMotor

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 DELETED - 12/25/08 12:15 AM

Post deleted by ZIPPY

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 12:19 AM

Quote:

LMAO

Yep,yep

Posted By: slantzilla

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 12:34 AM

Posted By: Get-X

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 01:47 AM

LOL !! Well said BG, well said!!

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 02:46 AM

Measure the drivesahft angle and the pinion angle with your angle finder and then do the math to get the differences between the two, that is what is called the pinion angle in all of the old Mopar chassis manuals, believe it or not

For instance, if the driveshaft measures 90 degrees on your angle finder and the pinon measures 87 with the pinion nose down instead of up you have 3 degrees differences in the correct way, if the pinion is pointed up then you need to rotate the rear end housing down 6 to 9 degrees to get 3 to 6 nose down in relation to the driveshaft. If the driveshaft measures two degrees left of the 90 degree mark looking at it from the drivers side and the pinion measures three degrees right of the 90 degree mark you add the two measurements up which comes to five degrees which will work fine on a Cal Track car, usually. Some Cal track cars need more and some need less. If the driveshaft reads two degrees left of the 90 degree mark and the pinion reads 3 or more degrees left of the 90 degree mark also then the rear end housing needs to be rotated down down to get the needed dergrees of difference. Nothing to it, huh

Keep at it, get it done corerectly now and prevent damage later

Posted By: Blown61

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 03:03 AM

Perhaps this needs to get moved to yellow bullet?

Posted By: Sport440

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 04:19 AM

First, Merry Christmas

Those old MP manuals had Lots of good info. In general thier advice on pinion angle was decent and works Fine in most cases.

U joints are forgiving and in alot of cases measuring pinion angle off the Drive shaft works fine.

And that Is what the MP manuals referred to as Pinion angle. But those old school guys were wrong

But not that wrong that thier advice was bad.

Pinion angle off the drive shaft is just that, and that Only.

Lets take a example desired number, say 4* pinion down. We want 4* for a pinion angle with our setup.

And our car just happens to have a Perfect alingment between the Tranny and rear pinion.

Pinion-----------------------Tranny

0----------shaft-------------0 Like this!

This diagram shows 0 down pinion angle and we Dont want that, so we lower the rear pinion angle by 4* to the shaft as the MP manuel states. In this case it works out Perfect!!

And you are indeed 4* pinion Down, not only on the Shaft, but from the Parallel angle off the "pinion and the tranny" too.

Now in the real world the tranny cl is hardly ever perfectly inline with the pinion cl. Throw in some SS springs to the mix your rear pinion and tranny are far from centerline.

So lets say that because of the above , the rear pinion cl is down say, 3.36" inches from the tranny centerline but yet they are still parellel with each other.

Whats our driveshaft doing, since the rear is down? At a 4'length its angling down at 4* towards the Pinion from the tranny.

Doing it the MP manuel way in this case, you wouldnt adjust the pinion down from the Shaft, because your already at 4* down.

Yep your 4* down from the shaft, but unlike in the first scenario you are not 4* down from the tranny and pinion parallel angle as you were in the First scenario.

In the first example 4* down from the shaft is 4* down from parallel.

In the second example 4* down from the shaft is 0* down from parallel.

We wanted 4* down for the setup. In the first example all the old dogs would of adjusted for it.

In the second example the old dogs would of said its dead on

wrong

Im an old dog myself, But Ive been enlitend. I like Hellen Keller spent many years in the darkness.

But the lite is now shining

Old dogs Follow the lite

With due respect to all, Merry Christmas, mike

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 04:36 AM

I can tell you a easy way to measure it(which ever
way you wish to do it). If you want to go off of
the drive shaft... car on stands, in neutral, have
the rear U-joint level... now take a socket that
fits the U-joint cup set it on the bottom cup,
take a reading with your protractor on the socket
(the socket is nothing but a spacer). Turn the U-
joint 90* and do the same thing again and look at
the reading, remember that you want the nose lower.
If you take the reading from the trans do the same
thing but only on the yoke side at the trans and
the other reading on the rear U-joint on the diff
side of it..... very simple and you dont pull the
drive shaft

Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 06:02 AM

PINION angle is the difference between the angle of the engine/trans centerline and the PINION, and NOTHING ELSE. U-JOINT angle is the difference between the driveshaft and the engine/trans in the front, and the driveshaft and pinion in the rear, and NOTHING ELSE. You want the centerline of trans and pinion to be parallel under power, with about 1-2* of u-joint angle to make the joints wear properly, and to cancel vibration. Measure with the weight on the rear axle. So, to make it easy, if the trans is level - 0*, you want about 2* down on the driveshaft, and the pinion level -0*- as a baseline. Add to the rear u-joint angle 0* for a 4 link, 1-2* for ladders, and 3-5* for leaf cars. So in this application, the trans would be 0* (level), you would have -2* front u-joint angle, the driveshaft would be angled down 2*, +6* rear u-joint angle, and +4* (FROM LEVEL) downward pinion angle for a leaf spring car. This gives the correct (-2* and +2*) U-JOINT ANGLES under power, after the springs wrap up 4*. My printer is down, so I can't draw it and scan it to post, but this is the correct way to measure U-JOINT and PINION ANGLES.

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 08:03 AM

Quote:

First, Merry Christmas

Those old MP manuals had Lots of good info. In general thier advice on pinion angle was decent and works Fine in most cases.

U joints are forgiving and in alot of cases measuring pinion angle off the Drive shaft works fine.

And that Is what the MP manuals referred to as Pinion angle. But those old school guys were wrong But not that wrong that thier advice was bad.

Pinion angle off the drive shaft is just that, and that Only.

Lets take a example desired number, say 4* pinion down. We want 4* for a pinion angle with our setup.

And our car just happens to have a Perfect alingment between the Tranny and rear pinion.

Pinion-----------------------Tranny

0----------shaft-------------0 Like this!

This diagram shows 0 down pinion angle and we Dont want that, so we lower the rear pinion angle by 4* to the shaft as the MP manuel states. In this case it works out Perfect!! And you are indeed 4* pinion Down, not only on the Shaft, but from the Parallel angle off the "pinion and the tranny" too.

Now in the real world the tranny cl is hardly ever perfectly inline with the pinion cl. Throw in some SS springs to the mix your rear pinion and tranny are far from centerline.

So lets say that because of the above , the rear pinion cl is down say, 3.36" inches from the tranny centerline but yet they are still parellel with each other.

Whats our driveshaft doing, since the rear is down? At a 4'length its angling down at 4* towards the Pinion from the tranny.

Doing it the MP manuel way in this case, you wouldnt adjust the pinion down from the Shaft, because your already at 4* down.

Yep your 4* down from the shaft, but unlike in the first scenario you are not 4* down from the tranny and pinion parallel angle as you were in the First scenario.

In the first example 4* down from the shaft is 4* down from parallel.

In the second example 4* down from the shaft is 0* down from parallel.

We wanted 4* down for the setup. In the first example all the old dogs would of adjusted for it.

In the second example the old dogs would of said its dead on wrong

Im an old dog myself, But Ive been enlitend. I like Hellen Keller spent many years in the darkness.

But the lite is now shining Old dogs Follow the lite

With due respect to all, Merry Christmas, mike

Merry Christmas Mike

and everyone else. but you know we can't convince some of these guys know matter how well it is explained

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 10:04 AM

confusing stuff

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 01:12 PM

Quote:

confusing stuff

Well,well now you have it.Setting up off the trans tailshaft as discribed is correct for setting working angles of the u-joints.Once you establish the working angles(both u-joints opperating with in their working range in a parallel or near paralell plane,them you can set your pinion angle for your type of suspension.You new wave experts and book buddys need to understand what you're talking about.We old timers allready have figured for the working range during the chassis build or suspension modification.That's second nature for us.Assuming that your build and modification had allowed for this,then set the pinion angle off the driveshaft is the acceptable method.And as stated many times your basic mopar engine and trans is a fix position,your not likely to change it,and anyone that does change it or the suspension (should) have the basic knowledge of working range of u-joints.With that being said the youngsters and book buddys are also in their own way correct,they should have explaned their method as such(setting the working range of the u-joints correctly so that proper pinion angle can be achived.)My advice for them is to totally understand what they read and what picture they look at before claiming to be the altimate authority on the subject.We old dog geezers are always a step ahead of the pups.MERRY CHRISTMAS,HO<HO<HO

Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 01:35 PM

WedgeOmatic, excellant diagram and chart. Pretty much what I said on my post, and on the 10 or so other times I have posted on this. They call "working angle" what I call "u-joint" angle, but the result is the same. The chart is a touch more aggressive than I posted, but I certainly wouldn't argue with it. I also shoot for an absolute max of 10* on any "working angle", so on leaf spring cars that have high angles I will limit spring wrap-up with Cal-Tracs, slappers, etc. Good work on the chart, and Merry Christmas!

Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 01:41 PM

Now, Bob, if we can get people to grasp that pinion angle has absolutely squat to do with traction and E/T, our job here would be finished!

Posted By: VernMotor

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 02:27 PM

Quote:

Now, Bob, if we can get people to grasp that pinion angle has absolutely squat to do with traction and E/T, our job here would be finished!

Yea I can't beleve how many times I hear this..(well give it more pinion angle it will hook better) How in the heck did this ever get started is be on me ! Then I ask them how ? or why do you think that ? its alway well so and so told me..
and I tell them it is not true//They act like they are heatbroken..

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 02:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Now, Bob, if we can get people to grasp that pinion angle has absolutely squat to do with traction and E/T, our job here would be finished!

Yea I can't beleve how many times I hear this..(well give it more pinion angle it will hook better) How in the heck did this ever get started is be on me ! Then I ask them how ? or why do you think that ? its alway well so and so told me..
and I tell them it is not true//They act like they are heatbroken..

with you guys but what if they were so far off on the pinion angle that it was causing some kind of traction problem or spring wrap issue? so they start cranking on the pinion angle and traction improves thus ET is gained?

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 03:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Now, Bob, if we can get people to grasp that pinion angle has absolutely squat to do with traction and E/T, our job here would be finished!

Yea I can't beleve how many times I hear this..(well give it more pinion angle it will hook better) How in the heck did this ever get started is be on me ! Then I ask them how ? or why do you think that ? its alway well so and so told me..
and I tell them it is not true//They act like they are heatbroken..

Now we have got the youngens to understand working range and pinion angles we can move on to the effects.Any mis-alignment or out of range of working angles and acute angles at the pinion can cause binding and rob horsepower and cause a car to have bad launch characteristics,loss of ET and loss of mph.It's like dragging the brakes except more damage can occur.Excessive driveshaft movement can cause the tailshaft to break,excessive u-joint binding can cause u-joint failure.This mis-alignment is not just regulated to up and down but side to side ranges also.

Jamie,you are correct,there is no tuning to be gained by adjusting pinion angle,it needs to correctly established as your final adjustment to your suspension set up.The guidelines are set.If you gain anything from adjusting the pinion angle it is because you didn't have it right in the first place.

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 03:14 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Now, Bob, if we can get people to grasp that pinion angle has absolutely squat to do with traction and E/T, our job here would be finished!

Yea I can't beleve how many times I hear this..(well give it more pinion angle it will hook better) How in the heck did this ever get started is be on me ! Then I ask them how ? or why do you think that ? its alway well so and so told me..
and I tell them it is not true//They act like they are heatbroken..

Now we have got the youngens to understand working range and pinion angles we can move on to the effects.Any mis-alignment or out of range of working angles and acute angles at the pinion can cause binding and rob horsepower and cause a car to have bad launch characteristics,loss of ET and loss of mph.It's like dragging the brakes except more damage can occur.Excessive driveshaft movement can cause the tailshaft to break,excessive u-joint binding can cause u-joint failure.This mis-alignment is not just regulated to up and down but side to side ranges also. Jamie,you are correct,there is no tuning to be gained by adjusting pinion angle,it needs to correctly established as your final adjustment to your suspension set up.The guidelines are set.If you gain anything from adjusting the pinion angle it is because you didn't have it right in the first place.

thats what I said but with out all of the drama

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 03:28 PM

The reason I asked the first way to measure is because I am ordering a chr moly driveshaft monday since I put my new dana setup in (dont have a driveshaft)... With my old 8 3/4 I did it off the snubber pad and driveshaft but I am going out now to get measurements.. BRB ... lol

Posted By: mr2performance

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 03:30 PM

Quicktree, did you go to PRI?

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 03:43 PM

Quote:

Quicktree, did you go to PRI?

yes I did, walked around until my legs were dead

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 03:45 PM

Quote:

The reason I asked the first way to measure is because I am ordering a chr moly driveshaft monday since I put my new dana setup in (dont have a driveshaft)... With my old 8 3/4 I did it off the snubber pad and driveshaft but I am going out now to get measurements.. BRB ... lol

you know the car has to be at race weight and height with driver in the car and full of fuel right?

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 04:07 PM

car is down on its suspension with proper weight applied.... -9(down) on the back of the dana same as off the yoke as well. -2(down) on the back of the tranny.....

caltracs are preloaded as well..

Posted By: Sport440

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 08:04 PM

Well since you didnt add any driveshaft measurements some of the old school MP manual pinion angle enthusiast wont be able to respond!

Because without the shaft measurement they are lost.

But for those in the know or who truly understand, We dont need no stinking shaft to figure the pinion angle

This old dog, says your sitting at a pinion angle of 11* down total from parallel. To much based on Caltracs recommendations.

What do the other old school guys think.

I know, theres no shaft measurements involved

mike

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 08:15 PM

what would you do... install a shim the other way on the spring

what is caltracs recomendation....

its a 20" front segment and installed on the upper hole of the front spring hanger...

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 08:21 PM

Quote:

what would you do... install a shim the other way on the spring what is caltracs recomendation....

its a 20" front segment and installed on the upper hole of the front spring hanger...

I don't like shims, if you have to cut and weld a new pad on the rear.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 08:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:

what would you do... install a shim the other way on the spring what is caltracs recomendation....

its a 20" front segment and installed on the upper hole of the front spring hanger...

I don't like shims, if you have to cut and weld a new pad on the rear.

I was hoping someone wasnt gonna say that....

Posted By: DRAGRCR632

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 08:36 PM

hey MR2

was at PRI
the bullet was purrrttttyyyyy

LRT

Posted By: mr2performance

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 09:28 PM

Thanks, should have grabbed some polish and a rag. I may have even bought you dinner. I really don't like the front wheels they made us put on for the show. Wrong b/spacing and width, but they worked. The one piece ones that were on it are way cooler. Fun show even though Quicktree didn't stop by check my pinion angle

. I also had my dragster up by the Mopar stage and even had a couple of prospective buyers.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 09:33 PM

what is the recomended pinion angle for caltracs... thx

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 09:45 PM

Quote:

Thanks, should have grabbed some polish and a rag. I may have even bought you dinner. I really don't like the front wheels they made us put on for the show. Wrong b/spacing and width, but they worked. The one piece ones that were on it are way cooler. Fun show even though Quicktree didn't stop by check my pinion angle . I also had my dragster up by the Mopar stage and even had a couple of prospective buyers.

what are you talking about, sixpackgut and I reset your pinion angle while you were off shooting the bull.

there was so many people there we couldn't tell one from the other. we probably walked right past you and didn't know it.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 10:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Now, Bob, if we can get people to grasp that pinion angle has absolutely squat to do with traction and E/T, our job here would be finished!

Yea I can't beleve how many times I hear this..(well give it more pinion angle it will hook better) How in the heck did this ever get started is be on me ! Then I ask them how ? or why do you think that ? its alway well so and so told me..
and I tell them it is not true//They act like they are heatbroken..

Now we have got the youngens to understand working range and pinion angles we can move on to the effects.Any mis-alignment or out of range of working angles and acute angles at the pinion can cause binding and rob horsepower and cause a car to have bad launch characteristics,loss of ET and loss of mph.It's like dragging the brakes except more damage can occur.Excessive driveshaft movement can cause the tailshaft to break,excessive u-joint binding can cause u-joint failure.This mis-alignment is not just regulated to up and down but side to side ranges also. Jamie,you are correct,there is no tuning to be gained by adjusting pinion angle,it needs to correctly established as your final adjustment to your suspension set up.The guidelines are set.If you gain anything from adjusting the pinion angle it is because you didn't have it right in the first place.

thats what I said but with out all of the drama

Yeah,now that us old timers explained to you the difference between working angles and pinion angle.Maybe you youngsters will get it right.

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 10:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Now, Bob, if we can get people to grasp that pinion angle has absolutely squat to do with traction and E/T, our job here would be finished!

Yea I can't beleve how many times I hear this..(well give it more pinion angle it will hook better) How in the heck did this ever get started is be on me ! Then I ask them how ? or why do you think that ? its alway well so and so told me..
and I tell them it is not true//They act like they are heatbroken..

Now we have got the youngens to understand working range and pinion angles we can move on to the effects.Any mis-alignment or out of range of working angles and acute angles at the pinion can cause binding and rob horsepower and cause a car to have bad launch characteristics,loss of ET and loss of mph.It's like dragging the brakes except more damage can occur.Excessive driveshaft movement can cause the tailshaft to break,excessive u-joint binding can cause u-joint failure.This mis-alignment is not just regulated to up and down but side to side ranges also. Jamie,you are correct,there is no tuning to be gained by adjusting pinion angle,it needs to correctly established as your final adjustment to your suspension set up.The guidelines are set.If you gain anything from adjusting the pinion angle it is because you didn't have it right in the first place.

thats what I said but with out all of the drama

Yeah,now that us old timers explained to you the difference between working angles and pinion angle.Maybe you youngsters will get it right.

we were getting it right all along it just took a pic for you to understand

next time we will just get the crayons out so you can learn faster

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 10:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Now, Bob, if we can get people to grasp that pinion angle has absolutely squat to do with traction and E/T, our job here would be finished!

Yea I can't beleve how many times I hear this..(well give it more pinion angle it will hook better) How in the heck did this ever get started is be on me ! Then I ask them how ? or why do you think that ? its alway well so and so told me..
and I tell them it is not true//They act like they are heatbroken..

Now we have got the youngens to understand working range and pinion angles we can move on to the effects.Any mis-alignment or out of range of working angles and acute angles at the pinion can cause binding and rob horsepower and cause a car to have bad launch characteristics,loss of ET and loss of mph.It's like dragging the brakes except more damage can occur.Excessive driveshaft movement can cause the tailshaft to break,excessive u-joint binding can cause u-joint failure.This mis-alignment is not just regulated to up and down but side to side ranges also. Jamie,you are correct,there is no tuning to be gained by adjusting pinion angle,it needs to correctly established as your final adjustment to your suspension set up.The guidelines are set.If you gain anything from adjusting the pinion angle it is because you didn't have it right in the first place.

thats what I said but with out all of the drama

Yeah,now that us old timers explained to you the difference between working angles and pinion angle.Maybe you youngsters will get it right.

we were getting it right all along it just took a pic for you to understand next time we will just get the crayons out so you can learn faster

I know it must be hard for you to admit your wrong buy the facts that you present but I'am sure you'll get over it.Call it,experience,maturity,or old age.You'll get there some day.

Read the top of the page(calculating working angles)

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 11:18 PM

Quicktree at PRI show

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 11:23 PM

Quote:

Quicktree at PRI show

That certainly explains everything,

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 11:29 PM

Quote:

Quicktree at PRI show

gee thanks RAY

payback is hell

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 11:31 PM

I think I fell asleep when Eddie was telling us how great he is

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 11:34 PM

Quote:

Quicktree at PRI show

hey why doidn't you show the pic of me kicking your butt on the practice tree?

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 11:39 PM

Tony,looks like you were dreaming about rearends and angles.Merry Christmas

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 11:42 PM

a picture is worth a thousand words

i beat your but on the practice tree. .480 to .530 every time!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 11:42 PM

Quote:

Tony,looks like you were dreaming about rearends and angles.Merry Christmas

no i was just trying to keep him from blinding me with his stupid camera.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 11:46 PM

so what would the concensus say the correct pinion angle for a caltrac setup should be... i think it was 5* nose down with ss springs.....

gut where have you lost all that weight at....

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 11:47 PM

Quote:

so what would the concensus say the correct pinion angle for a caltrac setup should be... i think it was 5* nose down with ss springs.....

what ever caltrac tells you, did you read the instructions

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 11:49 PM

didnt say. but i emailed him......

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 11:51 PM

We set Caltracs/split mono leaf springs at 2 degrees negative of the driveshaft.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 11:53 PM

i dont know how my crap is 9* down on the dana .......

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/25/08 11:55 PM

Quote:

so what would the concensus say the correct pinion angle for a caltrac setup should be... i think it was 5* nose down with ss springs.....

gut where have you lost all that weight at....

Calvert recomends not using caltracs with SS springs. here is the deal. you dont want your angles going positive. if your using just spings, 5-7* down is perfect. caltracs and ladders 2* down. i tried shims and i dont like them and wont use them. i would try it as is.

lost weight on front seats, rear window regulaters, and willwood brakes on the front and removal of emergency brake.

on the wish list is
aluminum driveshaft with 1350 joints and centerlines on the back. that could get me to 3600 maybe

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/26/08 12:11 AM

Quote:

i dont know how my crap is 9* down on the dana .......

at one time that was a good thing.

is that 9* minus driveshaft angle?

Posted By: Sport440

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/26/08 12:52 AM

With Caltracs and springs I think its 2* to 4* down. Thats from the tranny parallel angle and not the shaft. When John returns your Email he will confirm that. mike

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/26/08 01:20 AM

I run caltracs and the split mono's.... on my old 8 3/4 setup measuring off the shaft was 0* and i believe 2* up on the snubber pad.... I used a cut lowering block to fix that...

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/26/08 01:21 AM

Quote:

Quote:

i dont know how my crap is 9* down on the dana .......

at one time that was a good thing.

is that 9* minus driveshaft angle?

- 9(down) on the dana and -3(down) on the back of the tranny.. not -2 as previously posted... so im taking its -12* down

dont have a driveshaft yet.....

im mounted on the upper hole of the front spring hanger also I feel if I went to the lower hol the dana pinion angle would be worse... maybe im wrong...

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/26/08 01:47 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

i dont know how my crap is 9* down on the dana .......

at one time that was a good thing.

is that 9* minus driveshaft angle?

- 9(down) on the dana and -3(down) on the back of the tranny.. not -2 as previously posted... so im taking its -12* down

dont have a driveshaft yet.....

im mounted on the upper hole of the front spring hanger also I feel if I went to the lower hol the dana pinion angle would be worse... maybe im wrong...

so would I need to get to +1 up on the dana to have -2 nose down total....

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/26/08 02:41 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

i dont know how my crap is 9* down on the dana .......

at one time that was a good thing.

is that 9* minus driveshaft angle?

- 9(down) on the dana and -3(down) on the back of the tranny.. not -2 as previously posted... so im taking its -12* down

When your posting your numbers where are you measuring with a angle finder? Off of both the tranny and rear end in relationship to the 90 mark or what? If in relationship to 90 degrees are both measurements on the same side or opposite sides of the 90 mark? If both are on the same side then you need to subtract them from each other which would equal six degrees difference between the two angles, if there on opposite sides of the 90 degree mark you add them together which ends up equaling 12 degrees like you posted, which is way to much

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/26/08 03:10 AM

wedge, did this 60 come from Cass? if so, talk to him. he may weld perches at that degree for someone that runs stock springs. you must realize that even at that angle, when you subtract diveshaft angle, its not that severe

i checked mine. i welded my perches on after i got the dr diff kit. my dana is 3* down and driveshaft is 1* down.

Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/26/08 06:16 AM

Jason bought the parts from me, but not the housing.

I like to see 3-4 degrees negative pinion angle for Cal-tracs. These numbers are derived from the relationship between the transmission centerline and pinion centerline.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/26/08 11:40 AM

Quote:

Jason bought the parts from me, but not the housing.

I like to see 3-4 degrees negative pinion angle for Cal-tracs. These numbers are derived from the relationship between the transmission centerline and pinion centerline.

Yea I got the housing somewhere else as cass hooked me up with all the goodies... the guy who welded on my moser ends also welded on the perches... no the guy is not anywhere remotely near me... got the housing shipped in..

I am going to go out again today and triple check measurements...

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/26/08 11:43 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

i dont know how my crap is 9* down on the dana .......

at one time that was a good thing.

is that 9* minus driveshaft angle?

- 9(down) on the dana and -3(down) on the back of the tranny.. not -2 as previously posted... so im taking its -12* down

When your posting your numbers where are you measuring with a angle finder? Off of both the tranny and rear end in relationship to the 90 mark or what? If in relationship to 90 degrees are both measurements on the same side or opposite sides of the 90 mark? If both are on the same side then you need to subtract them from each other which would equal six degrees difference between the two angles, if there on opposite sides of the 90 degree mark you add them together which ends up equaling 12 degrees like you posted, which is way to much

see pic above for the measurement on the dana

i am gonna triple check it all again today... but im sure they are opposite

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60 - 12/26/08 11:59 AM

Now that I think about it when i had my 8 3/4 the tranny was -3 down and the 8 3/4 on the snubber pad was +2 up and the driveshaft was 0* I believe... i did what the mopar muscle mag article said and measured off the snubber pad and the driveshaft and I was 2* up.... I put in a lowering block (cut) to get ideal piniona angle...

now off the tranny centerline -3 and the snubber pad it was +2 I was -1 down that way.... and +2 the other way

thats a 3* swing which is alot to me

Now note.... I am no bracket racer but after the 5th pass setting the pinion angle up the way mopar muscle said on the return lane at cruising speeds i developed a slight vibration and no vibes under acceleration....

I am thinking i gave myself way to much pinion angle and that could be why my 60fts sucked also with the vibration... 1.78 was best i could muster.... BTW when my 60fts went down my mph kept going up.... I am no bracket racer but tried...

maybe someone can make sense of it all.

Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60