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Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms

Posted By: SC304

Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/20/14 04:42 AM

Looking for information on adjustable rocker arms that will fit gen 3 heads with out machine work. I currently run Jesel rockers in Super Stock but I'm building a Factory stock motor which is an all aluminum 426. Cannot modify the castings. The stock rockers don't have any adjustment obviously. I have heard of Harland Sharp and T&D rockers. Anyone have any experience with these or anything else? Thanks for any input.

Mike
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/20/14 04:50 AM

In the other post it shows the Harland Sharp rockers
with adjusters.. I dont know if TD has them or not..
would be worth a call
EDIT
here is the pic from the other post


Attached picture 8004584-DSC_0427.jpg
Posted By: MattW

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/20/14 08:34 PM

Quote:

In the other post it shows the Harland Sharp rockers
with adjusters.. I dont know if TD has them or not..
would be worth a call
EDIT
here is the pic from the other post




I have heard that TD will be soon. Call them at the end of March.
I have heard HS has had problems with castings.
Rocker ARM specialist should be out end of April.
No confirmation just rumor.
What about adjustable pushrods?
Matt
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/20/14 08:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

In the other post it shows the Harland Sharp rockers
with adjusters.. I dont know if TD has them or not..
would be worth a call
EDIT
here is the pic from the other post




I have heard that TD will be soon. Call them at the end of March.
I have heard HS has had problems with castings.
Rocker ARM specialist should be out end of April.
No confirmation just rumor.
What about adjustable rocker arms?
Matt

Adjustable pushrods???
Posted By: MattW

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/21/14 01:03 AM

Sorry fixed it.
Posted By: SC304

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/21/14 02:04 AM

Thanks Mr P

Can you identify the other post please?

Admittedly Harland Sharp will have issues with heavy springs and high RPM.

Thanks Mike
Posted By: LA360

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/21/14 01:16 PM

The T&D stuff will be pricey like the Jesel stuff. There was an article on dragzine.com or Enginelabs.com about them.
They were around $2600 or there abouts
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/21/14 02:28 PM

Quote:

Thanks Mr P

Can you identify the other post please?

Admittedly Harland Sharp will have issues with heavy springs and high RPM.

Thanks Mike



Its this post(Hearing This More and More )
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...0&fpart=all
Posted By: hemidup

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/21/14 05:59 PM

Quote:

Looking for information on adjustable rocker arms that will fit gen 3 heads with out machine work. I currently run Jesel rockers in Super Stock but I'm building a Factory stock motor which is an all aluminum 426. Cannot modify the castings. The stock rockers don't have any adjustment obviously. I have heard of Harland Sharp and T&D rockers. Anyone have any experience with these or anything else? Thanks for any input.

Mike



With factory stock, can you run other than stock appearing rocker arms.
Posted By: LA360

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/21/14 11:42 PM

Harland Sharp Rockers write up

http://www.dragzine.com/features/pri-coverage/pri-2011-5-7l-6-1l-hemi-full-roller-rocker-arms/

T&D write up

http://www.enginelabs.com/features/pri-coverage/pri-2013-td-machines-has-new-hemi-rocker-assembly/
Posted By: Dragula

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/22/14 01:57 AM

Quote:

Harland Sharp Rockers write up

http://www.dragzine.com/features/pri-coverage/pri-2011-5-7l-6-1l-hemi-full-roller-rocker-arms/

T&D write up

http://www.enginelabs.com/features/pri-coverage/pri-2013-td-machines-has-new-hemi-rocker-assembly/




"street price will be around $2,800."!

Nice economical upgrade...
Posted By: Moparmal

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/22/14 04:13 AM



I agree!.... Lemme ask this....what rocker systems are the 9 sec LX cars like Red Baron running....and the 8 sec Drag Pak cars like Dave Barton......and are they breaking them?
Posted By: MattW

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/22/14 09:05 PM

Quote:



I agree!.... Lemme ask this....what rocker systems are the 9 sec LX cars like Red Baron running....and the 8 sec Drag Pak cars like Dave Barton......and are they breaking them?



I'll take a guess "STOCK"

What do I win if I'm right? Matt
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/22/14 11:08 PM

I would bet the really high rpm builds are using Jesel. Although the stockers have been known to be fine to 7800....
Posted By: 340RICK

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/22/14 11:23 PM

Barton is running either stock or Harland Sharp on his stuff.
Posted By: LA360

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 12:57 AM

Quote:

Barton is running either stock or Harland Sharp on his stuff.


I would be surprised if Barton's shop didn't help with the development of the T&D rocker system, as they did with the Gen II stuff.
Posted By: MattW

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 01:07 AM

So here's a couple of questions. The reason for adjustable rockers is for a solid roller, right?
Is it possible to use the factory rockers with a solid and set your lash with custom pushrods?
Isn't the whole idea with super stock or any HP engine is lightweight parts? Rev quicker? I don't think any of the aftermarket would compare with the weight of stock rockers.
Matt
Posted By: SC304

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 01:33 AM

I have been told that Ray uses the Harland sharp and I've been told he had T&D?

I've heard T&D has systems running on the tracks.. I threw the post up here to try and find feedback on any rocker arm info available. The RPM's are expected to exceed 8500.

For a clarification. My post started with a reference to Factory Stock. It's actually the new factory shoot out class. Mopar 426 in a Challenger, against the Copo 427 and the Ford 429 in a Cobra Jet.

As I stated earlier I run Jesel on my 6.1 and 6.4 heads in super stock. Jesel does not have an offering for a Stock replacement rocker.

Totally different rule book though in factory shoot out with the 426 in Stock. Cylinder head and intake is Cnc'd, valves are Ti, compression is 15:1 all in the Aluminum block with a solid roller and lifter under a large throttle body. Controlling lash is the most Difficult. We have made dyno pulls and witnessed Geometry Fluctuation lets call it. Lol.

Attached picture 8007973-image.jpg
Posted By: 340RICK

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 01:35 AM

Barton is not working with T&D on there Gen 3 rockers. First time they seen them was at PRI show in INDY. He told me he does not know how you could get a socket or wrench on adjuster nut.....

You certainly can use lash caps or adjustable push rods with stock rockers but would take hours to set valve lash.
Posted By: SC304

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 01:44 AM

Yes we are running a solid cam. And yes Lash Adjustment is tough to accomplish.
Don't think that push rods are the answer but certainly an option?

The acceleration is great but it has to be stable thru the acceleration and at max RPM you hope right? So lighter is always not the best scenario. Harland's are Aluminum while T&D is steel. Speaking with Harland's Engineer I don't think they intended the rocker for the application described in this post? Not knocking the product as they had a different target market? Just like Jesel had no plan to sell their rockers as a stock replacement.
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 01:49 AM

Im curious what oiling setup will live at 8500+ ?
Posted By: SC304

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 01:57 AM

In case anyone is interested in more class details

9" stock tire
3350 lbs with driver for all 3 of the manufacturers..
No trans brake
Ford 9"
No electric or air shifter allowed
3 speed transmissions

Dave Barton was the king of the hill at Indy this year in the shoot out.
If I remember correctly at Z Max they went 8.98 weeks later. Definitely halling the mail.

Attached picture 8008021-image.jpg
Posted By: 733404spdCuda

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 02:00 AM

Hmmm giving us a sneak peak of the new car…. I still have 15K for the yellow challenger

JB
Posted By: SC304

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 02:02 AM

I run the Melling pump with filter on the block. No remote.
All passages massaged.
We run jesel lifters so bores are bushed.
Oil thru trend pushrods.
6.1 crank treated

Have not experienced any oiling issues
Posted By: SC304

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 02:03 AM

Funny I don't see a Yellow Challenger.

No idea what your talking about.
Posted By: 733404spdCuda

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 02:07 AM

It must be on the other side of the shop with the “to be restored” cars
Posted By: SC304

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 02:11 AM

Adjuster accessibility is real tough. Even on the Jesel. I have experienced some severe melt downs due to improper torquing of adjuster nuts. Resulted in broken rockers and internal devastation as I tell my wife. Lol

Attached picture 8008050-image.jpg
Posted By: SC304

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 02:15 AM

Good eye it's the last one to go.

Lora wants it done so she can drive it. Lol

If not she says she's driving the red road runner. OH Boy
Posted By: 340Cuda

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 02:16 AM

Mike,
This is a very interesting project please keep us posted on all aspects.
Good Luck!
Bill Lamb
Posted By: dizuster

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 02:58 AM

I can tell that's an old picture... that black road runner is sitting in front of a 1/2 done primer duster in a different zip code right now...
Posted By: MattW

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 03:16 AM

Quote:

I run the Melling pump with filter on the block. No remote.
All passages massaged.
We run jesel lifters so bores are bushed.
Oil thru trend pushrods.
6.1 crank treated

Have not experienced any oiling issues



Is your 6.1 a production crank?
Matt
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 03:26 AM

Quote:

Adjuster accessibility is real tough. Even on the Jesel. I have experienced some severe melt downs due to improper torquing of adjuster nuts. Resulted in broken rockers and internal devastation as I tell my wife. Lol

maybe give Andy at PWR a call, he would at least know what is possible.
Posted By: hemidup

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 09:10 AM

I was on the horn last week with the HS engineer. We were talking about the oiling problems with their hyd non adjustable lifters and then the discussion turned into their adj rockers using a solid cam. They said they haven't had any issues so far. I'm sure Barton would know for a fact.
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 06:07 PM

HS rockers in action. I don't like the looks of the oil pouring out the sides

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=413...e=2&theater
Posted By: SCATPACK 1

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 09:45 PM

Wow that is a lot of oil leakage on the exhaust side rockers.
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 10:53 PM

Quote:

HS rockers in action. I don't like the looks of the oil pouring out the sides

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=413...e=2&theater

Yeah i dont either, but it almost looks like pushrod oiling and it was coming from the cups to me??
Posted By: SC304

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/23/14 11:13 PM

Yes it is
Posted By: MattW

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/24/14 01:40 AM

Quote:

Yes it is


So much for turning stock crank above 7000 rpm bullsh1t.

BTW thank for sharing info. I do believe this is the way for the G3 to excel.
Matt
Posted By: SC304

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/24/14 04:45 AM

The 6.1 crank has been just fine. At the time it's all that was available

The 426 is a Callie's piece cause it is a 4" stroke.

Molnar is supplying my new cranks for the next 6.1 builds.

Going back to dyno next week with some stiffer rocker shafts.

Mike
Posted By: dwayne welder

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/24/14 05:38 AM

Hello Who's dyno due you use?? Thanks
Posted By: STEFF

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/24/14 01:24 PM

Quote:

The 6.1 crank has been just fine. At the time it's all that was available

The 426 is a Callie's piece cause it is a 4" stroke.

Molnar is supplying my new cranks for the next 6.1 builds.

Going back to dyno next week with some stiffer rocker shafts.

Mike



Mike, you trying out the Trend Shafts?
Posted By: SC304

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/25/14 04:02 AM

And it runs with the 4.10 gear back in it.
Posted By: SC304

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/25/14 04:07 AM

Roush dyno for this 426 project
Posted By: SC304

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/25/14 04:09 AM

No too pricy and there are none in stock.
Posted By: hemidup

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/25/14 05:23 AM

Are you using stock diameter rockershafts or a smaller diameter shaft with sleeves like HS?
Posted By: STEFF

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/25/14 02:19 PM

Yeah, I was a little floored by the price as well......$200 per shaft is a bit spendy.
Posted By: hemidup

Re: Gen 3 Hemi Rocker Arms - 01/25/14 10:26 PM

Quote:

Yeah, I was a little floored by the price as well......$200 per shaft is a bit spendy.



At $400 a set? Yeah, so was I. I was going to revamp some SB rockershafts to fit the G3's, but the cost of the shafts and machining work wouldn't be cost effective so I went another route.

I bought bulk tubing which I cut to length, centerless ground the tubing to the proper shaft diameter, machined the mounting holes, oil feed holes and shaft ends and then had them Nitrated, Tufftride*/Melonite QPQ treated so I ended up with hardened, treated rockershafts for way less.

Sorry for all the comma's lol
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