Posted By: Brian Hafliger
CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/01/14 12:54 AM
Finally done and happy with this intake port. I'll pour the intake port Thurs.
CNC Ported Iron heads
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/01/14 12:55 AM
2.02 intake valve.
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/01/14 12:56 AM
They flow pretty good for a 2.02 valve!
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/01/14 01:10 AM
.100 68
.200 142
.300 201
.400 249
.500 281
.550 290
.600 296
.650 293
.700 294
28" on a 4.030 bore...4.125 bore added 3 cfm at .500 and 4 cfm at .600 and then went backwards but still flowed 295 cfm at .650 lift.
Brian
.200 142
.300 201
.400 249
.500 281
.550 290
.600 296
.650 293
.700 294
28" on a 4.030 bore...4.125 bore added 3 cfm at .500 and 4 cfm at .600 and then went backwards but still flowed 295 cfm at .650 lift.
Brian
Posted By: Crizila
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/01/14 01:34 AM
Looks great Brian and the flow numbers are awesome. Mopar Magnums or aftermarket?
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/01/14 01:36 AM
Quote:
Looks great Brian and the flow numbers are awesome. Mopar Magnums or aftermarket?
Indy iron X heads...both LA and magnum. Thank you!
Posted By: Crizila
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/01/14 01:46 AM
Got a CnC program for the exhaust side too?
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/01/14 01:48 AM
Quote:
Got a CnC program for the exhaust side too?
Ex. really doesn't need it. It will support more power than the Intake will! At least with my VJ and valve in it...;-)
Posted By: BPE
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/01/14 01:56 AM
Good Job. 
Rod
Rod
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/01/14 02:21 AM
Saw the pictures on FB. Had to come see if you posted flownumbers! YYou're such a tease!! Looks like another job well done!!!
Keith
Keith
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/01/14 05:04 AM
Working on some eddy port programs next 
Posted By: FastOne
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/01/14 07:02 AM
Looks good, what does the air speed sound like on the flow bench?, just right, slow, fast, coarse, manometer staying steady, think you know what I mean 
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/01/14 07:13 AM
Quote:
Looks good, what does the air speed sound like on the flow bench?, just right, slow, fast, coarse, manometer staying steady, think you know what I mean
Port is very stead up to .600 and then is a bit up and down, not horrible though.
Port is pretty smooth actually, very balanced port design
At .700 lift it's not too bad either...just at .630 to .680 it's a bit rough. I can't shape the short turn any better due to water close by.
I'm putting a set on a 392 short block soon with 13:1 and a solid roller so we'll see what she does
Posted By: pittsburghracer
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/01/14 07:24 AM
Did you happen to check runner cc?
Posted By: skrews
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/01/14 09:29 AM
Looks nice. Whats the min. CSA ? I thought it would be cool if Indy would sell a version of this head with the pushrod hole relocated for offset intake rockers. I suppose that would would cut into their IndyBrock (sorry Josh thats what everybody calls them) sales though.
Posted By: sshemi
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/01/14 10:04 PM
They can be as good as they want but what are they gonna cost???
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/01/14 10:26 PM
Just as the eddy heads are not a full on race head, neither are these!
I'll have all the info you guys want tomorrow nite. I'm off today and going to enjoy my family. No matter what they cost, they will always be cheaper than ANY other aluminum head out there and they will hold their own...I hope we shall see.
Cost as always will be much cheaper than anything else out there making similar power with better components!!
I'll have all the info you guys want tomorrow nite. I'm off today and going to enjoy my family. No matter what they cost, they will always be cheaper than ANY other aluminum head out there and they will hold their own...I hope
we shall see.Cost as always will be much cheaper than anything else out there making similar power with better components!!
Posted By: RAMM
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/02/14 02:57 PM
I too am very curious on the price point and how long these take to machine. Brian, What machine are you using? Also-Will this program fit into an EQ casting? J.Rob
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/02/14 09:36 PM
Quote:
I too am very curious on the price point and how long these take to machine. Brian, What machine are you using? Also-Will this program fit into an EQ casting? J.Rob
I can only give you a price if you let me help with your next EM build
You know, I never thought of that but I'd have to sonic the floor/short turn on the EQ heads to see...maybe? These don't take too long because it's only the intake port.
They're done on a Rottler machine.
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/02/14 09:37 PM
Intake MCA is 2.200 at the pinch.
Intake port poured right at 200cc.
Intake port poured right at 200cc.
Posted By: RAMM
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/02/14 09:44 PM
Quote:Quote:
I too am very curious on the price point and how long these take to machine. Brian, What machine are you using? Also-Will this program fit into an EQ casting? J.Rob
I can only give you a price if you let me help with your next EM build
You know, I never thought of that but I'd have to sonic the floor/short turn on the EQ heads to see...maybe? These don't take too long because it's only the intake port.
They're done on a Rottler machine.
I would gladly accept some help but our engine for this year is pretty well done. Roughly how long for the 4 intake ports? What method did you use for the digitizing? J.Rob
Posted By: cudadoug
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/02/14 11:43 PM
Brian, if you'd like some EQ guienna pigs, I have a pair ready to ship. Uh umm, cough, cough...
Seriously, I'd be curious of the pricing with your VJ and valves, if the program was applicable to the EQ's
Seriously, I'd be curious of the pricing with your VJ and valves, if the program was applicable to the EQ's
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/03/14 12:43 AM
Quote:
Brian, if you'd like some EQ guienna pigs, I have a pair ready to ship. Uh umm, cough, cough...
Seriously, I'd be curious of the pricing with your VJ and valves, if the program was applicable to the EQ's
If you want to send them down, I'll sonic test them and then go from there. I might be able to have EQ send me a head to test...I'll let you know.
Posted By: cudadoug
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/03/14 02:17 AM
Quote:Quote:
Brian, if you'd like some EQ guienna pigs, I have a pair ready to ship. Uh umm, cough, cough...
Seriously, I'd be curious of the pricing with your VJ and valves, if the program was applicable to the EQ's
If you want to send them down, I'll sonic test them and then go from there. I might be able to have EQ send me a head to test...I'll let you know.
PM-ed ya to not clutter up this thread...
Posted By: skrews
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/03/14 10:23 AM
Quote:
Intake MCA is 2.200 at the pinch.
Intake port poured right at 200cc.
Thanks
Posted By: sshemi
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/03/14 04:26 PM
Quote:Quote:
Intake MCA is 2.200 at the pinch.
Intake port poured right at 200cc.
Thanks
Thas kind of big.
Mine is 185cc with some more flow but stalls earlier.
Is there enough material around the guide to install new guides after the porting?
Still no price?
Posted By: pittsburghracer
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/03/14 05:22 PM
Quote:
Intake MCA is 2.200 at the pinch.
Intake port poured right at 200cc.
Thanks.
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/03/14 08:08 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
Intake MCA is 2.200 at the pinch.
Intake port poured right at 200cc.
Thanks
Thas kind of big.
Mine is 185cc with some more flow but stalls earlier.
Is there enough material around the guide to install new guides after the porting?
Still no price?
I can't price on here...they won't let me
Yes you can put guide liners in or use a shorter guide. I can get more flow earlier too, as much as 15 cfm at .400 and 10 more at .500 but the port is noiser and stalls real bad...Flow is only part of the puzzle...air speed, port shape, CSA is very important and it's really a balancing act of all 'dem.
Posted By: SLOW67
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/03/14 08:22 PM
Could this be done to a set of "J" heads? Would it be cost effective to install 2.02's and have a set CNC'd? Just curious
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/03/14 08:26 PM
Quote:
Could this be done to a set of "J" heads? Would it be cost effective to install 2.02's and have a set CNC'd? Just curious
No, it's a totally different port design. Not sure if a cnc program for stock heads would be a big seller because of the cost factor....
Posted By: BradH
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/03/14 08:37 PM
Quote:
Working on some eddy port programs next
What E-head stuff are you looking to develop CNC programs for?
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/03/14 10:10 PM
SB right now...I might look at the Victor BB stuff since I have a head but the STD port version seems like a waste of time since everyone's building large cid engines these days....
Posted By: Jwilli500
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/03/14 11:16 PM
Since I have a new set of the EQs on the shelf, I would be very interested in this as well!
Quote:Quote:
Brian, if you'd like some EQ guienna pigs, I have a pair ready to ship. Uh umm, cough, cough...
Seriously, I'd be curious of the pricing with your VJ and valves, if the program was applicable to the EQ's
If you want to send them down, I'll sonic test them and then go from there. I might be able to have EQ send me a head to test...I'll let you know.
Posted By: sshemi
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/03/14 11:57 PM
So can you pm me the prize?
Posted By: mopster
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/04/14 12:26 AM
2.200 pinch canīt support those flow numbers, should be 2.300. Anyway, these could be great heads for 408 with hp peak at 5900, or 360 with hp peak at 6700.
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/04/14 01:04 AM
Quote:
2.200 pinch canīt support those flow numbers, should be 2.300. Anyway, these could be great heads for 408 with hp peak at 5900, or 360 with hp peak at 6700.
146cfm times 2.200 = 321 theoretical max flow...it will and does support those flow #'s.
Posted By: FastOne
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/04/14 01:06 AM
what manifold will you be using on the 392?,or is that undecided at the moment
Posted By: mopster
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/04/14 01:24 AM
You are referring to 350 fps air speed but that works only in local areas. Average air speed canīt be over 311 fps or port will be choked.
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/04/14 02:51 AM
Quote:
You are referring to 350 fps air speed but that works only in local areas. Average air speed canīt be over 311 fps or port will be choked.
Anything over 350fps is not too good...that's the standard!
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/04/14 05:32 AM
Quote:
what manifold will you be using on the 392?,or is that undecided at the moment
We'll be testing 4 different intakes!
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/04/14 05:35 AM
Quote:
You are referring to 350 fps air speed but that works only in local areas. Average air speed canīt be over 311 fps or port will be choked.
146 cfm per sq. in. is the rule so 2.200 x 146 = 321 possible cfm.
Posted By: mopster
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/04/14 12:17 PM
146cfm rule is theoretical number for frictionless orfice without losses, you canīt use that for cylinder head ports.
350 fps is the limit for local air speed of the fast areas like short side floor or adjacent to pushrod wall, above 350fps you will have losses.
If you calculate air speed for a certain CSA, you will have an average speed for that section, and thats approximately the number you see when you stick a pitot probe in the middle of that section of the port. If average speed of a section is 350 fps, its WAY too fast. Generally anything over 311 fps is not good. It can be higher than that but you need a better port design than small block mopar with std port location and std pushrod location.
350 fps is the limit for local air speed of the fast areas like short side floor or adjacent to pushrod wall, above 350fps you will have losses.
If you calculate air speed for a certain CSA, you will have an average speed for that section, and thats approximately the number you see when you stick a pitot probe in the middle of that section of the port. If average speed of a section is 350 fps, its WAY too fast. Generally anything over 311 fps is not good. It can be higher than that but you need a better port design than small block mopar with std port location and std pushrod location.
Posted By: 408Dust
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/04/14 02:44 PM
What do you think the flow numbers would be at 162cc?
Quote:
.100 68
.200 142
.300 201
.400 249
.500 281
.550 290
.600 296
.650 293
.700 294
28" on a 4.030 bore...4.125 bore added 3 cfm at .500 and 4 cfm at .600 and then went backwards but still flowed 295 cfm at .650 lift.
Brian
Posted By: domingo
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/04/14 09:24 PM
what iron heads are these?
and what are the EQ heads?
and what are the EQ heads?
Posted By: gch
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/04/14 11:10 PM
ok I will say it,No big block love?!
Posted By: FastOne
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/05/14 12:42 AM
4 different manifolds?, that will be interesting, look forward to hearing about that
Who cares about big blocks
Who cares about big blocks
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/05/14 04:12 AM
Quote:
What do you think the flow numbers would be at 162cc?Quote:
Not sure what you mean? They start out around 179cc I believe...
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/05/14 04:13 AM
Quote:
what iron heads are these?
and what are the EQ heads?
EQ are Engine Quest heads...these are Indy iron X heads....
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/05/14 04:19 AM
Quote:
ok I will say it,No big block love?!
The thing that bothers me about the Eddy victor BB head is no headers work on the tall deck...I know some headers can be made to work, but a lot of guys like to bolt on headers and go...
Plus I'm an Indy dealer and between the EZ line, -1 line and SR line you can make good power.
I've got a 540 BB mopar on the dyno now, 10.4:1 compression, 325EZ heads, 1050 on an Indy intake and solid roller for street and it made 745HP@ 6600rpm and 690TQ@ 4400rpm! That's a nice spread and TQ is over 680ft.lbs. for 900rpm!
Ofcourse the heads were rubbed on a bit, but not too much.
I'll post pics tomorrow nite
Posted By: jeff500
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/05/14 04:51 AM
Rumor has it they cost close to 3k so i went with the airwolfs for $2400.. 
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/05/14 05:06 AM
Quote:
Rumor has it they cost close to 3k so i went with the airwolfs for $2400..
I'm sure you got your $$$ worth
Posted By: 408Dust
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/05/14 03:09 PM
Can they flow decent numbers when the intake and exhaust are only allowed a maximum cc size? (class racing) Thinking about submitting the EQ head to NHRA for approval, would be nice to use a fresh set of castings instead of old wore out core shifted castings.
Quote:Quote:
What do you think the flow numbers would be at 162cc?Quote:
Not sure what you mean? They start out around 179cc I believe...
Posted By: BradH
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/05/14 06:08 PM
Quote:
The thing that bothers me about the Eddy victor BB head is no headers work on the tall deck...I know some headers can be made to work, but a lot of guys like to bolt on headers and go...
The Victor's exhaust port location is identical the MP Stage VIs (I've lined up both heads side by side to confirm this). I have TTI's 2" B/E-body headers for my Challenger that I used w/ my old Stage VIs and it'll be a bolt-in / no-change-required installation when my Victor-headed RB 452 goes back in w/ the TTIs.
The TTI 2" w/ Victor or Stage VI heads are actually a better fit clearance-wise than my previous Hooker 1-7/8" Comp headers w/ OEM iron heads. The only downside is that the starter is captured by the routing of the tubes, requiring the driver-side header to be loosened up and pulled away from the engine to remove it. "Been there, done that."
Also, TTI says their 2 to 2-1/8" Indy RB step header will also work, although I haven't looked into all of TTI's footnotes re: the application w/ Victor or Stage VI heads. I know the standard 2" header is a "no brainer" in my case and don't feel any need to change. I'd actually like to have seen a 1-7/8" to 2" step design offered, but that's just me.
Posted By: BradH
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/05/14 06:22 PM
I'll probably pi$$ off somebody here, but for this sort of application I think some of you are getting way too hung up thinking Brian's heads having FPS readings being too high and exceeding their "theoretical" max flow limits. Is it "better" if your port design results in measurements that fit within these ideals? Probably. Is it going to kill the head's performance if they don't? Nope.
Example: My old Stage VIs were only 213-215cc ported, had a standard 2.20" x 1.20" entry w/ a pinch significantly less than that due to the nature of the port. They flowed 305+ at .600" and made over 600 HP on a pump-gas 440 (10.8 CR) w/ a .600" solid flat-tappet cam. That was enough to push my 3755# (w/ driver) street car to 10.5s at 126 w/ a full exhaust on DOT tires. FPS? Almost 400 over the short turn. Yeah, it would have been nice if the air speed was more in line w/ the ideals and "should" have performed better if they were. But that's what they were AND how they performed, regardless.
This ain't Pro Stock stuff here...
Example: My old Stage VIs were only 213-215cc ported, had a standard 2.20" x 1.20" entry w/ a pinch significantly less than that due to the nature of the port. They flowed 305+ at .600" and made over 600 HP on a pump-gas 440 (10.8 CR) w/ a .600" solid flat-tappet cam. That was enough to push my 3755# (w/ driver) street car to 10.5s at 126 w/ a full exhaust on DOT tires. FPS? Almost 400 over the short turn. Yeah, it would have been nice if the air speed was more in line w/ the ideals and "should" have performed better if they were. But that's what they were AND how they performed, regardless.
This ain't Pro Stock stuff here...
Posted By: ademon
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/05/14 06:46 PM
Anything to be gained using a 2.05 valve on these X heads?
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: CNC Ported Iron heads - 01/05/14 10:30 PM
Quote:
Anything to be gained using a 2.05 valve on these X heads?
Unfortunately, the port stalls hard when you go up in valve size...it stalls around .550 lift.
Problem is the water below the short turn...just can't shape it properly.
BradH...quit subliminaly trying to talk me into a cnc ported Eddy Victor