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My 493.....whatcha think ?

Posted By: JC Childress

My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/17/13 12:07 AM

I've got a few things to work with now. 69 440 block, 4.150 stroke crank, H-beam rods, 9.5 to 1 JE pistons, 286 casting Max Wedge heads, 64 model Max Wedge crossram intake, AFB carbs, small solid roller ( probably in 250-254 @ .050 range), Max Wedge manifolds, deep pan. I'm excited to build it .....have no experience with a big block. How ya'll think it will run ?
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/17/13 12:50 AM

Posted By: roadhazard

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/17/13 01:10 AM

Like a scalded cat!!







Posted By: Sport440

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/17/13 01:21 AM

480 or so HP
Posted By: Polarapete

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/17/13 01:29 AM



I think that your proposal will be good for a pump gas torque monster that will be RPM limited by the carbs, exhaust manifolds and small cam. The compression ratio will tame it a lot, too. It should be relatively civilized and long lived with a lot of wow factor
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/17/13 01:46 AM

Run a solid or if a Hydraulic look at some of the Hughes Grinds that have about .560 lift and ~254/258 ish @.050 duration would be about perfect. The Comp XE that is 251/257 @ .050 is a good one too but I'd look at the comparable Hughes if it were mine. 108 or 110 spread in at around 105 should be perfect.

It'll be a blast to drive, big torque and good power through the mid 5000 range, probably peak power around 5100-5200 but it really won't fall off too badly with the Maxie manifold and the right carb set up. The heads are probably your limiting factor but the manifold has a way of getting more out of them.

I'd look for about 530hp and maybe 565-ish lb/ft pretty much flat from around 2500 to 4800.

Big cubes don't really need a lot of CR (but more will make it Happier/crisper) but it will be a LOt of fun. You could put a smaller cam in it and probably grunt out close to 600 lb/ft but IMO you won't be as happy with the power curve, you almost want enough cam to take a little off the very bottom, after all you don't want it to feel like a 455 oldsmobile

The maxie ram-horn manifolds really don't give away much at all to say a 1 3/4" tube header, and they look really killer under-hood....wish I had a set!!
Posted By: JC Childress

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/17/13 04:10 PM

I'll post dyno results after we run it but I think it will run a little better than expected.....but, the dyno doesnt lie....lol
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/17/13 09:13 PM

Quote:

480 or so HP

It should, if assembled and blueprinted properly, make a lot more than that My first dyno tested 426C.I. M.W. pump gas motor made 499.6 HP at 5900 RPM and a lot ,more torque than HP with similar parts The 499 should make close to 600 Hp and 670 Ft. lbs tuned up
Posted By: JC Childress

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/17/13 11:18 PM

Thats almost exactly what I had in mind....based on what I've seen from stuff we've dyno'd.
Posted By: 70dusterjohn

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/17/13 11:23 PM

We built pretty much the same thing for my uncles car, we had more compression though IIRC, and it made 670 HP and I want to say 710 lbs ft ! It was in a gutted 64 Plymouth ran 10.20s all day long ! It went the best of 10.10 in the mine shaft ! Good comb !
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/17/13 11:44 PM

didn't Andy do an A&A (allegedly better then the OEM Maxie intake) on his 514 with more compression, Indy EZ's and a larger cam and it made I think 640-ish?

I think you can make 600 lb/ft+ with the right streetable cam but the 600-ish HP might still be a stretch with the low CR and (lower) hydraulic lift cam.

The Hughes cams seem to have among the best rate of lift for duration hydraulics out there, it will help because the Stage III heads tend to stall at low lifts so to make power you typically have to old school "hang em and squeeze it" (long duration & high compression to hang on to the torque well past peak to get the RPM)
Posted By: JC Childress

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/17/13 11:46 PM

Mine wont have a hydraulic cam in it.
Posted By: Sport440

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/18/13 02:00 AM

Quote:

Quote:

480 or so HP

It should, if assembled and blueprinted properly, make a lot more than that My first dyno tested 426C.I. M.W. pump gas motor made 499.6 HP at 5900 RPM and a lot ,more torque than HP with similar parts The 499 should make close to 600 Hp and 670 Ft. lbs tuned up



I was guessing and it was abit low, i was going to say around 480 to 520 or so.

The combo of 9.5 comp, stock 64 cross ram intake and the stock MW exhaust manifolds would hold it back HP wise. But I bet it would make lots of torque around midrange or so. Close to 600+ or so.

I have never tested, but heard the stock crossrams were hp killers, they were more designed for torque.

I am quite interested though to see what JC,s engine combo puts out
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/18/13 05:30 PM

My bad, I saw 250-254 and assumed (misread) you were going hyd flat tap

Yeah with a roller you could should see 600hp and and over 620 lb/ft at 493 cubes

Smallish SR you should probably spread the scenters a tad and put it in a little late to help the top end a bit, torque will be massive with a roller, just got to get it to hang on.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/18/13 06:02 PM

Quote:

but, the dyno doesnt lie....lol



Dynos lie more than you think , get it installed in a car and run it at the track , that lies less.
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/18/13 06:05 PM

Quote:

Quote:

but, the dyno doesnt lie....lol



Dynos lie more than you think , get it installed in a car and run it at the track , that lies less.



Was goin to say this earlier but didn`t and you can "correct" any #`s you`d like for a "happy" dyno sheet.............
Posted By: 383man

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/18/13 06:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

but, the dyno doesnt lie....lol



Dynos lie more than you think , get it installed in a car and run it at the track , that lies less.




Oh that is so true. I loved years ago when my 400 hp Dart spanked a guys 600 plus hp Camato ! Dyno is a great place to tune the eng and get the numbers but the track tells the truth. Ron
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/18/13 07:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

but, the dyno doesnt lie....lol



Dynos lie more than you think , get it installed in a car and run it at the track , that lies less.




Oh that is so true. I loved years ago when my 400 hp Dart spanked a guys 600 plus hp Camato ! Dyno is a great place to tune the eng and get the numbers but the track tells the truth. Ron

Traction with less power can outrun more power without traction Dyno can lie, post or print false numbers, if the operator wants to jiggle the input set up to make the customer happy or make his dyno "better" than the other ones around there shop If the dyno is not calibrated correctly it will not be accurate either Lots of ways to get fooled As said at the track racing will give you the results that the motor can do in the car, all things considered
Posted By: JC Childress

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/18/13 07:22 PM

Sure you can make a dyno read what you want...but why ? When you do this everyday, the dyno is just another tool in the toolbox. I know there are some hyped up dyno numbers out there but they will always be found out in the end. I know not all dynos are the same but they shouldnt be in left field if folks do things right. The dragstrip is the tell all but that also varies with track conditions, weather , etc. Weve done enough engines and folks know our dyno and our reputation......where I work is Kowalsky Racing Engines. www.kowalskyracing.com I'll post the numbers when its done....thanks for all the input from everyone.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/18/13 07:34 PM

I forgot to state on that M.W. motor all testing was done with headers The first set was a set of hooker 1 7/8 primary pipes with a 3.5 inch collector for the A bodies, the dyno operator made a set of dyno BB Mopar wedge headers that where 2 1/4 primarys, 25 inches long into a 4 inch collectors, I thought they would hurt the motor down low, they picked up the average by around 17 HP and 20 ft. lbs (tested from 3000 to 6500 RPM) All the gains where above 3500 RPM
Posted By: 383man

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/18/13 11:19 PM

I didn't mean to knock the fact your going to dyno your eng because as I said its great for tuning the eng for max performance. I just meant that just because the dyno #'s may be more then someone else's don't mean your car will automatically be faster. So many times I hear of dyno #'s of much more hp then I might make but yet there car is not as fast at the track. Thats what we mean when we say no matter what the dyno #'s are the track will always tell how the car performs. Ron
Posted By: JC Childress

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/19/13 12:06 AM

Yes sir, I know what you mean. I agree with you. All the horsepower in the world is useless if you cant put it to the ground. Hope you have a Merry Christmas.
Posted By: 383man

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/19/13 02:26 AM

Quote:

Yes sir, I know what you mean. I agree with you. All the horsepower in the world is useless if you cant put it to the ground. Hope you have a Merry Christmas.



Thank you and you and your family also have a Merry Christmass. And good luck building your eng. Ron
Posted By: Sport440

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/19/13 03:35 AM

When you said Crossram I was thinking those big long snaking tube type crossram that the 383,s and 413,s had.

I see now that the 426 crossrams were the bigger box type crossrams.

Still though, even if its the 426 Box type crossram you have at around 9.5 comp the hp wont be stellar IMO.

I remember seeing a dyno of a 446 Box type crossram with 9.75 comp and the MW manifolds and 244 @.050 .520 lift solid. It made 432 HP with the manifolds and Surprisingly only about 446 something with 1.7/8 headers. I guess those MW exhausts arent all that restictive after all.

But with 244 @ .050 and 9.75 comp, it showed about 1 HP per CI Im going to assume your 493 9.5 with a 254 @ .050 Roller will have a little more ooomph to it per CI, but how much,

Im going to raise my guess to 550 or so, I just dont see 600 anywhere. The Stock exhaust MW may be okay for the 446 engine but lay flat with the extra cubes of the 493.

Whats great is, we will get to find out. Whens the planned Dyno day?

And Welcome to the BB builds.
Posted By: Dads426

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/19/13 07:27 AM

The previous owner of our car had a 493 with 286 heads and a Bullet 313/321 roller cam that made 614 HP using a stock cross ram and Edelbrock 750 AFBs. I'm guessing compression was about 12-1. The manifold will be the limiting factor as it is sized to flow 426 cu-in. We picked up 3 tenths going to a 440-25 intake. Car ran a best of 10.30's with the stock cross ram and 440-1 heads.

Attached picture 7963780-image.jpg
Posted By: JC Childress

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/19/13 06:50 PM

Looks like an identical engine to mine. Thanks for the heads up.
Posted By: Sport440

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/20/13 03:22 AM

Quote:

Looks like an identical engine to mine. Thanks for the heads up.




JC, not even close to Identical when you compare the cams and the compression.

Your talking mild roller 254* @ .050 and 9.5 comp.

The above engine wild roller 282* @ .050 and 12.1 comp. 614 HP Big difference
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/20/13 03:55 AM

there is a point on the compression ratio where the lower compression ratio motor of the same C.I. will make more torque than HP Been there ,done that a lot of times I think bewteen 9.5 and 10.00 to 1 with iron heads and between 10.5 and 11.5 to 1 on aluminum headed motors with pump gas E85 does the same thing, more torque than HP under 12.0 to 1 for me so far
Posted By: Dads426

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/20/13 07:40 PM

We have a backup motor we ran a few years ago that is a 440, 11-1 compression, 590 MP cam, ported 286 heads, stock cross ram with 750 Edelbrocks. Never dynoed it, but it ran consistent 11.20's in the sig car.
Posted By: dannysbee

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 12/21/13 04:52 AM

This build is interesting.
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=1012.0
Posted By: slantman

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 03/30/14 07:02 AM

Quote:

This build is interesting.
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=1012.0



That's my car. The build is similar to the OP's engine, and I can attest that it is a fun drive on the street and the track.
Posted By: 383man

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 03/30/14 08:16 AM

Quote:

Quote:

This build is interesting.
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=1012.0



That's my car. The build is similar to the OP's engine, and I can attest that it is a fun drive on the street and the track.



That is sweet ! Very nice car that runs great. Ron
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: My 493.....whatcha think ? - 03/30/14 01:22 PM

Good luck with your build, and am looking forward to your results! There might be some room to push the compression up a touch, as you look to have a fairly long duration cam going in. My buddy's iron head 452 build got away with 10.2 compression on 92 non oxy pump, running a 268 @ .050 duration hydraulic cam. It showed a cranking compression of 168 or so on a web site calculator, and I thought you might want to optimize that for your build, especially since it will probably have decent quench?
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