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I was wanting to do daily driver but probably modified n/a
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I really need to find a copy of the rules for each class to see what it can fit in would like to be competitive in whatever class and just finish
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hopefully it will start and end at the same location as last year
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hopeing since it sold out so quickly last year
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not the best video or sound quality but I bet my neighbors loved it lol. trying to decide if I like the way the cam sounds im thinkinging about changing it. I know its either putting one dominator on it or going with a tunnel ram
You're on crack! It sounds like it's supposed to! If you want a Joe Dirte "lopey" idle, put some small tube headers on it along with 2" exhaust and some really restrictive mufflers.... 
Quote:Quote:
not the best video or sound quality but I bet my neighbors loved it lol. trying to decide if I like the way the cam sounds im thinkinging about changing it. I know its either putting one dominator on it or going with a tunnel ram
You have a 700hp 484" Hemi and you're wanting to swap cams because of the sound????
Contrary to popular belief, the camshaft is not what makes a "lopey" idle....it's the exhaust system....Have you ever seen/heard a car with zoomies have a "lopey" idle??? NOPE....and you never will no matter what camshaft is in it....
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not the best video or sound quality but I bet my neighbors loved it lol. trying to decide if I like the way the cam sounds im thinkinging about changing it. I know its either putting one dominator on it or going with a tunnel ram
You have a 700hp 484" Hemi and you're wanting to swap cams because of the sound????
Contrary to popular belief, the camshaft is not what makes a "lopey" idle....it's the exhaust system....Have you ever seen/heard a car with zoomies have a "lopey" idle??? NOPE....and you never will no matter what camshaft is in it....
Really,
so how do you explain that when you change cams from the stock one, and it idles fine, and then put a bigger one it, it lopes?? Everything remained the same except the cam????
Have to say, never heard this before.
Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
not the best video or sound quality but I bet my neighbors loved it lol. trying to decide if I like the way the cam sounds im thinkinging about changing it. I know its either putting one dominator on it or going with a tunnel ram
You have a 700hp 484" Hemi and you're wanting to swap cams because of the sound????
Contrary to popular belief, the camshaft is not what makes a "lopey" idle....it's the exhaust system....Have you ever seen/heard a car with zoomies have a "lopey" idle??? NOPE....and you never will no matter what camshaft is in it....
Really,
so how do you explain that when you change cams from the stock one, and it idles fine, and then put a bigger one it, it lopes?? Everything remained the same except the cam????
Have to say, never heard this before.
Contrary to popular belief, the camshaft is not what makes a "lopey" idle....it's the exhaust system....Have you ever seen/heard a car with zoomies have a "lopey" idle??? NOPE....and you never will no matter what camshaft is in it....
More overlap in the new camshaft is just showing you how ineffecient your exhaust system is because now it's running on exhaust...
It's called reversion because the exhaust doesn't flow good enough...put zoomies on it and it won't have a "lopey" idle...
Another way to make one sound Joe Dirte "lopey" is to fatten the idle circuit a whole bunch and/or pull initial timing out of it...
The motor in the video sounds PERFECT and is what people should be aiming for....
Have you ever seen a sling shot or super comp dragster idle " lopey"??
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not the best video or sound quality but I bet my neighbors loved it lol. trying to decide if I like the way the cam sounds im thinkinging about changing it. I know its either putting one dominator on it or going with a tunnel ram
Quote:
If that is the case, someone should tell those morons in PS and the AH cars they don't know that they are doing.
and what will actually happen is that with short zoomies the motor will suck in fresh air through the zoomies and run on that air as if it has a vacuum leak so you'll have to shut the throttle blades all the way... Been there, done that... 
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I'm not buying your exhaust theory.... even with
open headers my cam sounds the same... and my headers
are made to the engine specs.... over lap causes
the lope
The answer is "no" and you never will......
Quote:Quote:
If that is the case, someone should tell those morons in PS and the AH cars they don't know that they are doing.
I've heard plenty of those cars idle in person and I never said they don't know what they were doing...They sound more like the motor in the posted video than they do the typical over cam'd/under exhausted small block Chevy at the local cruise night that has what's considered a "lopey" idle...and I'll bet you $10,000 that a Pro Stock and SS/AH car's idle will smooth out if you put zoomies on it....
There's a HUGE difference between a slightly erratic idle and what the average car guy considers "lopey"...The reason that a Pro Stock car and SS/AH Hemi have an erratic idle still boils down to exhaust flow....at idle it's just not moving fast enough in the header to get out so the motor sucks exhaust back in during overlap...You can put ANY cam you want into any motor with zoomies and it will not idle "lopey"...Quote:
I'm not buying your exhaust theory.... even with
open headers my cam sounds the same... and my headers
are made to the engine specs.... over lap causes
the lope
It's not theory, it's fact....I've done it...
Put your motor on a test stand with zoomies or block hugger, shorty headers and run it and you'll see for yourself...Anything with a "lopey" idle will smooth right out with zoomies, but you need to be prepared to close the throttle blades all the way and it will still idle at 1,200-1,500RPM+ depending on how much overlap the cam has because it will be running on the fresh oxygen that it's pulling in through the headers.......
Overlap does cause the "lope" but because it's sucking exhaust in, correct?? So, the more restrictive or longer the exhaust system is, the more of a chance the motor has at sucking in exhaust during overlap.......your headers hold enough exhaust in them that the motor is trying to idle on it because airflow isn't fast enough to push exhaust out (at low RPM)...once the air speed picks up, the motor smooths out...
If every cylinder has the exact same lobe profile, why does the motor idle erratic if it's not sucking in exhaust??
Have you ever heard a car with zoomie headers idle with "lope"??
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If that is the case, someone should tell those morons in PS and the AH cars they don't know that they are doing.
I've heard plenty of those cars idle in person and I never said they don't know what they were doing...They sound more like the motor in the posted video than they do the typical over cam'd/under exhausted small block Chevy at the local cruise night that has what's considered a "lopey" idle...and I'll bet you $10,000 that a Pro Stock and SS/AH car's idle will smooth out if you put zoomies on it....
There's a HUGE difference between a slightly erratic idle and what the average car guy considers "lopey"...The reason that a Pro Stock car and SS/AH Hemi have an erratic idle still boils down to exhaust flow....at idle it's just not moving fast enough in the header to get out so the motor sucks exhaust back in during overlap...You can put ANY cam you want into any motor with zoomies and it will not idle "lopey"...Quote:
I'm not buying your exhaust theory.... even with
open headers my cam sounds the same... and my headers
are made to the engine specs.... over lap causes
the lope
It's not theory, it's fact....I've done it...
Put your motor on a test stand with zoomies or block hugger, shorty headers and run it and you'll see for yourself...Anything with a "lopey" idle will smooth right out with zoomies, but you need to be prepared to close the throttle blades all the way and it will still idle at 1,200-1,500RPM+ depending on how much overlap the cam has because it will be running on the fresh oxygen that it's pulling in through the headers.......
Overlap does cause the "lope" but because it's sucking exhaust in, correct?? So, the more restrictive or longer the exhaust system is, the more of a chance the motor has at sucking in exhaust during overlap.......your headers hold enough exhaust in them that the motor is trying to idle on it because airflow isn't fast enough to push exhaust out (at low RPM)...once the air speed picks up, the motor smooths out...
If every cylinder has the exact same lobe profile, why does the motor idle erratic if it's not sucking in exhaust??
Have you ever heard a car with zoomie headers idle with "lope"??
Over lap is drawing in part of the next fuel charge...
I put almost 2 identical cams with just different
LSA and the wide cam idled smooth with no lope at
all the 107 has the lope .. same engine with everything
the same except the cam LSA.... your entitled to
your opinion and I have mine... so I'll just let it
go at that
Quote:lol you don't have to change classes because of this car the chassis is killer the motor is not im willing to say its a 10.50 car at BEST ive been kicking around the idea of selling my hemi and doing a gen 3 one with a turbo or two hanging off it just to try and get the car lighter.
I need to change classes or get a lot faster
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not the best video or sound quality but I bet my neighbors loved it lol. trying to decide if I like the way the cam sounds im thinkinging about changing it. I know its either putting one dominator on it or going with a tunnel ram
You have a 700hp 484" Hemi and you're wanting to swap cams because of the sound????
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Looks like Bob Mazolini car...
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Over lap is drawing in part of the next fuel charge...
I put almost 2 identical cams with just different
LSA and the wide cam idled smooth with no lope at
all the 107 has the lope .. same engine with everything
the same except the cam LSA.... your entitled to
your opinion and I have mine... so I'll just let it
go at that
Quote:Quote:
Over lap is drawing in part of the next fuel charge...
I put almost 2 identical cams with just different
LSA and the wide cam idled smooth with no lope at
all the 107 has the lope .. same engine with everything
the same except the cam LSA.... your entitled to
your opinion and I have mine... so I'll just let it
go at that
I'm really not trying to sound like a butthead, but you're wrong...it's "lopey" with more overlap because it's pulling in more exhaust into the intake manifold...I'm sure you've heard of "reversion"? Reversion has nothing to do with "pulling in part of the next fuel charge"...I've done it...it's not my opinion...it's fact...next time your motor is out, run it on a test stand with zoomies or short, block hugger headers and you'll see I'm right...
Have you ever seen a motor that's got way too much overlap and the intake manifold and inside of the carb is black? That's soot from the exhaust...
You're the one working off theories and opinion, not me...I've actually done what I've described and it's 100% true...just try it...
You still haven't answered my question, so I'll ask it for a third time...Have you ever heard a sling shot dragster with zoomies idle "lopey"?? No, you have not...the only way a motor with zoomies will idle "lopey" is if the timing is really low and it's really fat...
I'm so confident in what I'm saying that I'll put my money where my mouth is...I'll put a motor on my run-in stand... Run it with long tube headers to show you the "lopey" idle and then install some block hugger headers to prove it smooths out and it will idle at least 300-400rpm higher with the throttle blades all the way shut...just put up 2K to make it worth my time and drive on down to Oologah, Oklahoma and collect your money...
BTW, I'll cover all bets if anyone wants to get in on the action??
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Over lap is drawing in part of the next fuel charge...
I put almost 2 identical cams with just different
LSA and the wide cam idled smooth with no lope at
all the 107 has the lope .. same engine with everything
the same except the cam LSA.... your entitled to
your opinion and I have mine... so I'll just let it
go at that
I'm really not trying to sound like a butthead, but you're wrong...it's "lopey" with more overlap because it's pulling in more exhaust into the intake manifold...I'm sure you've heard of "reversion"? Reversion has nothing to do with "pulling in part of the next fuel charge"...I've done it...it's not my opinion...it's fact...next time your motor is out, run it on a test stand with zoomies or short, block hugger headers and you'll see I'm right...
Have you ever seen a motor that's got way too much overlap and the intake manifold and inside of the carb is black? That's soot from the exhaust...
You're the one working off theories and opinion, not me...I've actually done what I've described and it's 100% true...just try it...
You still haven't answered my question, so I'll ask it for a third time...Have you ever heard a sling shot dragster with zoomies idle "lopey"?? No, you have not...the only way a motor with zoomies will idle "lopey" is if the timing is really low and it's really fat...
I'm so confident in what I'm saying that I'll put my money where my mouth is...I'll put a motor on my run-in stand... Run it with long tube headers to show you the "lopey" idle and then install some block hugger headers to prove it smooths out and it will idle at least 300-400rpm higher with the throttle blades all the way shut...just put up 2K to make it worth my time and drive on down to Oologah, Oklahoma and collect your money...
BTW, I'll cover all bets if anyone wants to get in on the action??
I dont know what it takes with you but I put 2 cams
in like I said... one wide LSA and no lope and one
with a tight LSA and it loped ALL the rest of the
engine same... but I'll go back and tell the cam lab
guys they have been wrong all these years... as well
as the cam companies
Oh..... I NEVER have black in the carb....
so lets just say you have your idea and I have mine
and let the guys think what they want... OK
Quote:
I'm really not trying to sound like a butthead, but you're wrong...it's "lopey" with more overlap because it's pulling in more exhaust into the intake manifold...I'm sure you've heard of "reversion"? Reversion has nothing to do with "pulling in part of the next fuel charge"...I've done it...it's not my opinion...it's fact...next time your motor is out, run it on a test stand with zoomies or short, block hugger headers and you'll see I'm right...
Quote:
I dont know what it takes with you but I put 2 cams
in like I said... one wide LSA and no lope and one
with a tight LSA and it loped ALL the rest of the
engine same... but I'll go back and tell the cam lab
guys they have been wrong all these years... as well
as the cam companies
Oh..... I NEVER have black in the carb....
so lets just say you have your idea and I have mine
and let the guys think what they want... OK
If 2K isn't enough for you to fly or drive to Oklahoma, name the amount......3K?? 4K?? 5K?? Name it....... You're trying to nicely call me a liar, and I'm nicely trying to pay you to teach me a lesson........ Guess not... 
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I dont know what it takes with you but I put 2 cams
in like I said... one wide LSA and no lope and one
with a tight LSA and it loped ALL the rest of the
engine same... but I'll go back and tell the cam lab
guys they have been wrong all these years... as well
as the cam companies
Oh..... I NEVER have black in the carb....
so lets just say you have your idea and I have mine
and let the guys think what they want... OK
I don't know what it takes with you, but I've got $2,000 cash that says I'm right and your wrong....I'll PROVE it to you in person.....Come take my money.......
I'm not saying that what you've done isn't happening........I believe you......but it's because of reversion.....the motor is idling on exhaust because more overlap is allowing more exhaust into the intake tract.......Do you test with zoomie headers or block hugger headers and see what happens........
Cam lab guys aren't working with zoomies.......Tell them to try zoomies and see what happens......
I never said your motor had black soot in the intake or carb....I've seen that on customer's cars and figured you may have seen that before??
I don't have an "idea" or "theory" like you've already said.......I have FACT.........and I'll prove that you're the one with "ideas" and "theories".....and I'll even pay you to prove me wrong.......
SLOW67..........You're not reading everything I'm saying......YES.....the camshaft will change the idle BUT it's because of reversion, not "pulling in part of the next fuel charge"
Blusmbl.....I agree......I never said that a camshaft doesn't effect the sound, or "lopeyness" of an idle.......All I'm saying is that you can take ANY motor with zoomies, and it won't have a "lopey" idle, unless timing is way retarded and it's very rich........AND THAT'S A FACT THAT I'LL WAGER ON
The OP's motor sounds perfect......and to change the camshaft just to TRY to get a different sound is crazy IMHO......
Quote:
Blusmbl.....I agree......I never said that a camshaft doesn't effect the sound, or "lopeyness" of an idle.......All I'm saying is that you can take ANY motor with zoomies, and it won't have a "lopey" idle, unless timing is way retarded and it's very rich.....so, if I can prove to you guys that that's actually true, then it's the EXHAUST SYSTEM (including headers) and NOT so much the camshaft causing the "lopey" idle...AND THAT'S A FACT THAT I'LL WAGER ON
Quote:
OK... you win... your the genius and I'm the idiot
and you can shove the money you know where... your
type crack me up... bet big money and hope they dont
go for it..... if you were/are talking a pressurize
engine then your statement would be right BUT we arent
so I dont buy your BS.... and this will be the last
post for me on this........ you win
PS.... by the way NO IDIOT would run zoomies on a
N/A engine if you want to make it work
Where's the "BS" now, Mr. ThinkHeKnowsEverything??
I put the long tube headers back on and it idled right back down to 950 WITH the throttle blades back open to where they were before...... Headers was ALL I changed......NOTHING else.......
and unlike you, I don't post in a thread unless I know a LOT about the subject and have first hand experience........
Quote:
Wow... Nothing but crickets...
You'd think that if someone were to call me a liar and then say I'm bluffing on the bet would step up and own their statements and gladly take my money??
You can't be a puddin' boy all your life....Teach me a lesson and take my money Mr. KnowEverything....
Maybe you're afraid that you're not as smart as you want everyone to believe??? If that's the case, you should be more careful at choosing your battles and who you call a liar and BSer....
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Hey your the one thats suppose to know it all...
Quote:
I just let it drop... continue on if it floats your boat...
but I will say one think before I leave... why do
the cam companies say it has a rough idle or very
rough idle when they have no clue to the exhaust...
SO thats my final on this... carry on
The masses actually ASK for a cam with a "lopey" idle with no care for performance!!! That's absolutely insane IMHO.....You'll never see a racer do a cam swap to try to achieve a more "lopey" idle..... Cam companies know that 99% of their cams go into cars with full length headers and exhaust systems and not into dragsters with zoomies.......put zoomies on ANY motor with a "lopey" idle and it'll idle like it's got a vacuum leak because it'll be pulling in fresh air through the header pipe....no if's, and's or butt's.......... While you keeping avoiding my questions and I'll be over here turning blue from holding my breath...........
Quote:if your thinking im wanting to change the cam in my motor for a more lopey idle you didn't read what all I typedQuote:
Hey your the one thats suppose to know it all...
That's the pot calling the kettle black.....You're the one saying that I'm BSing because apparently YOU know it all....when the FACT is I've done what I've described.....Quote:
I just let it drop... continue on if it floats your boat...
but I will say one think before I leave... why do
the cam companies say it has a rough idle or very
rough idle when they have no clue to the exhaust...
SO thats my final on this... carry on
Because they're appealing to the masses.......and the masses don't know how to degree a camshaft, jet a carburetor or adjust valves.......That's why......
AGAIN........You're not reading what I'm saying....I'm saying that the overlap is allowing exhaust to run back up the intake tract and that's why a motor idles "lopey" and you're disagreeing with that...........
Truth is, I don't want to "carry on" with this internet crap......I want to DO what it takes to show you how much you don't know......but I'm not going to do it for free.....We all pay for lessons in life......but you're too scared to step up and own your comments........
Why won't you take my money?? If you're so smart, and you're so sure I'm BSing, it's any easy $2,000, $3,000 or even $5,000.........Man up......
Quote:Quote:
OK... you win... your the genius and I'm the idiot
and you can shove the money you know where... your
type crack me up... bet big money and hope they dont
go for it..... if you were/are talking a pressurize
engine then your statement would be right BUT we arent
so I dont buy your BS.... and this will be the last
post for me on this........ you win
PS.... by the way NO IDIOT would run zoomies on a
N/A engine if you want to make it work
You say I win, and then say what I'm saying is "BS"...Too bad you're not open minded enough to learn something...
I'll PayPal the money today....where's it need to go?? Who's an unbiased third party we can use?? How about Ray Meyers?
You're type crack me up, you think by saying "and this will be the last post for me on this' that it makes you right....
Heck for 3K, I'll load up my test stand with a motor on it and come to your house and win the bet....step up...
If that doesn't work for you, how about you paypal Wade Metzinger or Clark Lamb and either one can drive out to my shop and I'll demo for them?? I'll even PayPal $500 to a third party and take your word that you'll pay me when I win...step up...now who's BSing??
Blusmbl....I'm talking about a carburetor on a single plane intake with zoomies or block hugger headers that are open...
What you guys don't get is that this is NOT "theory" or my "opinion", unlike what P-body is saying...I HAVE done this back to back to back...
I had a 422" small block Chrysler running on my test stand with long tube headers, single plane intake and 950 carb...it idled about 950RPM.....ALL I did was remove the long tube headers and install block hugger "shorty" headers and I couldn't get it to idle below 1,500RPM with the throttle blades all the way shut.....FREAKED me out.....
It's the things you learn after you know it all that really help the most....
Quote:
everyone please paypal your money to me at iopbeachdude@hotmail.com
I need to be faster than Headhunter
Truth is, the only guys saying that are the guys with no chance of winning!! Quote:
if your thinking im wanting to change the cam in my motor for a more lopey idle you didn't read what all I typed
Quote:lol you have all ready been faster than my 10.50 car im hopeing it will run that at leastQuote:Quote:
OK... you win... your the genius and I'm the idiot
and you can shove the money you know where... your
type crack me up... bet big money and hope they dont
go for it..... if you were/are talking a pressurize
engine then your statement would be right BUT we arent
so I dont buy your BS.... and this will be the last
post for me on this........ you win
PS.... by the way NO IDIOT would run zoomies on a
N/A engine if you want to make it work
You say I win, and then say what I'm saying is "BS"...Too bad you're not open minded enough to learn something...
I'll PayPal the money today....where's it need to go?? Who's an unbiased third party we can use?? How about Ray Meyers?
You're type crack me up, you think by saying "and this will be the last post for me on this' that it makes you right....
Heck for 3K, I'll load up my test stand with a motor on it and come to your house and win the bet....step up...
If that doesn't work for you, how about you paypal Wade Metzinger or Clark Lamb and either one can drive out to my shop and I'll demo for them?? I'll even PayPal $500 to a third party and take your word that you'll pay me when I win...step up...now who's BSing??
Blusmbl....I'm talking about a carburetor on a single plane intake with zoomies or block hugger headers that are open...
What you guys don't get is that this is NOT "theory" or my "opinion", unlike what P-body is saying...I HAVE done this back to back to back...
I had a 422" small block Chrysler running on my test stand with long tube headers, single plane intake and 950 carb...it idled about 950RPM.....ALL I did was remove the long tube headers and install block hugger "shorty" headers and I couldn't get it to idle below 1,500RPM with the throttle blades all the way shut.....FREAKED me out.....
It's the things you learn after you know it all that really help the most....
everyone please paypal your money to me at iopbeachdude@hotmail.com
I need to be faster than Headhunter
if I can get it to run that and be able to drive and survive drag week im happy I wish it could be competitive but honestly I hope it will just make it thru the whole deal
Quote:
truth is, I want to root for all the guys here on Moparts. I may try to move classes so I don't have to compete against guys I would also like to see win a class. If Tony takes his AMC again, Billy with his Valiant, and You with your Barracuda, it would just suck if none of us win the class because some cut up 1800 lb RX7 with a 25 thousand dollar engine wins again running a pathetic number
Quote:
truth is, I want to root for all the guys here on Moparts. I may try to move classes so I don't have to compete against guys I would also like to see win a class. If Tony takes his AMC again, Billy with his Valiant, and You with your Barracuda, it would just suck if none of us win the class because some cut up 1800 lb RX7 with a 25 thousand dollar engine wins again running a pathetic number
Quote:Quote:
truth is, I want to root for all the guys here on Moparts. I may try to move classes so I don't have to compete against guys I would also like to see win a class. If Tony takes his AMC again, Billy with his Valiant, and You with your Barracuda, it would just suck if none of us win the class because some cut up 1800 lb RX7 with a 25 thousand dollar engine wins again running a pathetic number
Don't forget about little brother Dale with his Gremlin. I'll be back with the Valiant and a new small block next year, but I have a plate system, and I'll bring some big tires. That way I can choose between Modified and Pro Street, NA or Power adder, probably be too slow for any one of the four. Mostly what I root for is as many Moparts Members as possible at Registration/Tech day...then we'll sort it out from there!
Quote:that's why I was saying 10.50s in case the original dyno was a happy one
If you truly have 700HP then you will have NO problem out running that 10.50. That car should easily be in the mid 9's with 700hp. It worked great with 1050 hp and so so with 1350 hp. With 700 hp it will be a walk in the park.
Quote:if mine is to slow I will be throwing a lot of spray at it so I may be in a different class.Quote:Quote:
truth is, I want to root for all the guys here on Moparts. I may try to move classes so I don't have to compete against guys I would also like to see win a class. If Tony takes his AMC again, Billy with his Valiant, and You with your Barracuda, it would just suck if none of us win the class because some cut up 1800 lb RX7 with a 25 thousand dollar engine wins again running a pathetic number
Don't forget about little brother Dale with his Gremlin. I'll be back with the Valiant and a new small block next year, but I have a plate system, and I'll bring some big tires. That way I can choose between Modified and Pro Street, NA or Power adder, probably be too slow for any one of the four. Mostly what I root for is as many Moparts Members as possible at Registration/Tech day...then we'll sort it out from there!
I thought Dale was in Pro Street but yes, I agree, it looks like to many of "US" are going to be in the same class
Quote:
Its not just zoomies Wayne. When you go from long under chassis headers to big tube, short runner fender exits, you get the same effect. Have to recalibrate everything and lower the idle. Seen it on every car I have ever built fender exits for. The word you are looking for though is exhaust BACKPRESSURE. That is what makes the choppy idle and correctly, zoomies have little to any exhaust backpressure.
Monte
I started to post some links in this thread, but I didn't want to keep beating a dead horse since some on here are WAAAAAY to close minded to learn something..... or maye he did and figured he'd be smart to keep his money?? but what do I know, I never worked in a "lab at Chrysler".........
Quote:Quote:
Its not just zoomies Wayne. When you go from long under chassis headers to big tube, short runner fender exits, you get the same effect. Have to recalibrate everything and lower the idle. Seen it on every car I have ever built fender exits for. The word you are looking for though is exhaust BACKPRESSURE. That is what makes the choppy idle and correctly, zoomies have little to any exhaust backpressure.
Monte
Exactly...I was going through vids on YouTube last night and I couldn't find even ONE car that had fender exit headers that had a "lopey" idle...
You'd think that P-body would have noticed that out of all the smart people on this board, not even ONE single person considered taking me up on my bet...
The motor I was dealing with idled at 1,500rpm with the throttle blades closed ALL the way...it was actually running off the fresh air that it was pulling in through the short headers...so it had to be reversion pulling in that fresh air....
Quote:NOT getting in on the argument Mr P........but the cam profile changed the exhaust pulse, which in turn effects the exhaust backpressure.......Sooooo, in a sense YOU are right, because a cam change effected idle with same exhaust.....BUT on the other side HE is right, because the cam profile change, effected the exhaust pulse, which changed the back pressure and produced the idle difference.........Now, group hugQuote:Quote:
Its not just zoomies Wayne. When you go from long under chassis headers to big tube, short runner fender exits, you get the same effect. Have to recalibrate everything and lower the idle. Seen it on every car I have ever built fender exits for. The word you are looking for though is exhaust BACKPRESSURE. That is what makes the choppy idle and correctly, zoomies have little to any exhaust backpressure.
Monte
Exactly...I was going through vids on YouTube last night and I couldn't find even ONE car that had fender exit headers that had a "lopey" idle...
You'd think that P-body would have noticed that out of all the smart people on this board, not even ONE single person considered taking me up on my bet...
The motor I was dealing with idled at 1,500rpm with the throttle blades closed ALL the way...it was actually running off the fresh air that it was pulling in through the short headers...so it had to be reversion pulling in that fresh air....
OK.... I still believe its not the zoomies(per say)
they dont have a collector to draft in part of the
next fuel charge... a blown/pressurized engine doesnt
want or need a collector to draft the charge due to
the pressure.... like I said on my engine.. 2 cams
one wide LSA and a narrow one.. the wide was smooth
and narrow had the choppy idle and I stayed with
the
narrow for the lower end torque
Quote:
Wow... Nothing but crickets...
You'd think that if someone were to call me a liar and then say I'm bluffing on the bet would step up and own their statements and gladly take my money??
You can't be a puddin' boy all your life....Teach me a lesson and take my money Mr. KnowEverything....
Maybe you're afraid that you're not as smart as you want everyone to believe??? If that's the case, you should be more careful at choosing your battles and who you call a liar and BSer....
I'm nowhere near being a genius and I've never called or insinuated you're an idiot....but you're not too smart for calling me a liar and BSer because anyone that knows me knows I'm not that way...
Quote:
NOT getting in on the argument Mr P........but the cam profile changed the exhaust pulse, which in turn effects the exhaust backpressure.......Sooooo, in a sense YOU are right, because a cam change effected idle with same exhaust.....BUT on the other side HE is right, because the cam profile change, effected the exhaust pulse, which changed the back pressure and produced the idle difference.........Now, group hug
Monte
...what I mean by that statement is that if there isn't a relatively long header tube, the motor WOULD not idle "lopey", so the "cam" ITSELF really isn't what's making a motor idle "lopey", it's the fact that exhaust is running back up the intake tract (reversion) because of overlap COMBINED with a relatively long header and the engine is actually idling on exhaust.....and to prove that, all anyone has to do is put a set of zoomies OR open shorty headers on their motor that has quite a bit of overlap in the camshaft and they'll see the idle smooth right out for themselves....... or, for enough money, I'll bring a motor on a stand to their front door and show them...... Quote:
I'll take you up on your bet if you do it on your Blown Nitro Injected Altered Wheelbase Lenco Tranny Street Car 65 Plymouth.......or even "Brown Sugar"........Hurry Up, Post the video, Collect your cash !!! Surely one of them must be ready to go by now, JUST ONE, you've had 10 years on the AWB Car, and 5 or 6 years on Brown Sugar......
.....I plan to hit the ground running early next year.......It's been a long road......Since I bought the car, I've moved three times, the car's been in chassis shop prison twice, I've built a new shop and I've gotten heavily involved with my kids sports so it was moved down my priority list for a while and I'm just now getting back on track....... Aren't you the one that was trying to bust my balls last year?? I gave you my phone number and said we could meet anytime to discuss.....
Quote:
I'll take you up on your bet if you do it on your Blown Nitro Injected Altered Wheelbase Lenco Tranny Street Car 65 Plymouth.......or even "Brown Sugar"........Hurry Up, Post the video, Collect your cash !!! Surely one of them must be ready to go by now, JUST ONE, you've had 10 years on the AWB Car, and 5 or 6 years on Brown Sugar......
.....I plan to hit the ground running early next year....... Quote:
I'll take that as you are declining the bet......hey, perhaps you could take your engine stand on a road show and demonstrate for all the pro-stock dummies how they have such inefficient exhaust, and they have all been duped by the conspiracy of all the evil cam companies....oh, and I am sure Brown Sugar will set the world on fire now that it is in proper hands
It's not like they're going to swap cams to achieve a smoother idle........ or pay my gas, and I'll drive to your house with my test stand in tow so there aren't any misunderstandings over this keyboard.....I sent you a pm......
Quote:Quote:
I'll take that as you are declining the bet......hey, perhaps you could take your engine stand on a road show and demonstrate for all the pro-stock dummies how they have such inefficient exhaust, and they have all been duped by the conspiracy of all the evil cam companies....oh, and I am sure Brown Sugar will set the world on fire now that it is in proper hands
Wow...you've got some serious envy....what's your problem??? Tired of being Englehart's side kick????
I never said, or implied that any pro-stock guys have an inefficient exhaust....
You're reading way too much into what I've written........
Seriously, if you have a problem with me (like the last time you posted to me in a thread), shoot me a pm and I'll give you my number and address so we can handle this in person instead of in this thread......
I don't see you stepping up to my bet or adding anything beneficial to this thread?????
Quote:Quote:Quote:
I'll take that as you are declining the bet......hey, perhaps you could take your engine stand on a road show and demonstrate for all the pro-stock dummies how they have such inefficient exhaust, and they have all been duped by the conspiracy of all the evil cam companies....oh, and I am sure Brown Sugar will set the world on fire now that it is in proper hands
Wow...you've got some serious envy....what's your problem??? Tired of being Englehart's side kick????
I never said, or implied that any pro-stock guys have an inefficient exhaust....
You're reading way too much into what I've written........
Seriously, if you have a problem with me (like the last time you posted to me in a thread), shoot me a pm and I'll give you my number and address so we can handle this in person instead of in this thread......
I don't see you stepping up to my bet or adding anything beneficial to this thread?????
I think you really do believe that you are envied....
You stated that if you have a lopey idle, it is showing the inefficiencies of your exhaust system.....
Pay my gas so I can come see that Injected Nitro Lenco Tranny street monster....or throw them zoomies ya got on Brown Sugar.....I didn't see you taking me up on my bet.....
There was no reason for you to be so rude and obnoxious to Mike....plain and simple
that's all there is to it.....
that's all there is to it.....
Quote:
Not crawfishin out... but I dont agree with what you
said... I replied that you dont have a collector
on your zoomies to draft part of the next charge
so in that case you zoomie might idle BUT who runs
a zoomie on a N/A engine... NO ONE... you keep saying
its back pressure/reversion... I say no, that its
not drawing in the next charge... and you also said
that your engine will run with the blades closed and
you say its because its getting air from the zoomies...
ok now what kind of volume do you have in the zoomie
in relationship to the cyl volume... and you think
the air is running up that tube to supply the air to
keep it running(I think you might have a leak somewhere)
Like I've said over and over, it's EASY money for you...... Teach me a lesson... Quote:Quote:
Not crawfishin out... but I dont agree with what you
said... I replied that you dont have a collector
on your zoomies to draft part of the next charge
so in that case you zoomie might idle BUT who runs
a zoomie on a N/A engine... NO ONE... you keep saying
its back pressure/reversion... I say no, that its
not drawing in the next charge... and you also said
that your engine will run with the blades closed and
you say its because its getting air from the zoomies...
ok now what kind of volume do you have in the zoomie
in relationship to the cyl volume... and you think
the air is running up that tube to supply the air to
keep it running(I think you might have a leak somewhere)
That's where you're 100% wrong and that's what I offered to bet over to prove it to you........If you think I have a leak, I'll prove the "leak" is through the exhaust pipe.......and I'm so confident that I'm right, I'll wager any amount you want.......and you still think I'm dumb enough to not know if I have a vacuum leak or not....
BTW, I've seen lots of people run zoomies in sling shot dragsters......with injectors and carburetors......and like Monte pointed out, cars with fender exit headers idle completely different that cars with longer, under chassis headers.......I'M NOT MAKING THIS UP, P-BODY!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote:nothing special
lets see what the engine looks like in that car
Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
I'll take that as you are declining the bet......hey, perhaps you could take your engine stand on a road show and demonstrate for all the pro-stock dummies how they have such inefficient exhaust, and they have all been duped by the conspiracy of all the evil cam companies....oh, and I am sure Brown Sugar will set the world on fire now that it is in proper hands
Wow...you've got some serious envy....what's your problem??? Tired of being Englehart's side kick????
I never said, or implied that any pro-stock guys have an inefficient exhaust....
You're reading way too much into what I've written........
Seriously, if you have a problem with me (like the last time you posted to me in a thread), shoot me a pm and I'll give you my number and address so we can handle this in person instead of in this thread......
I don't see you stepping up to my bet or adding anything beneficial to this thread?????
I think you really do believe that you are envied....
You stated that if you have a lopey idle, it is showing the inefficiencies of your exhaust system.....
Pay my gas so I can come see that Injected Nitro Lenco Tranny street monster....or throw them zoomies ya got on Brown Sugar.....I didn't see you taking me up on my bet.....
There was no reason for you to be so rude and obnoxious to Mike....plain and simple
I said that because you always bring up my cars.....like it's really going to hurt me or something???
I didn't say it was "inefficient".......all I'm saying is that EXHAUST causes a "lopey" idle, and there's a way to prove it.....
Yes, I will take you up on that bet......I'll put shorty headers on my BS motor, but I can't do it today....I'm waiting on the parts to get back from the machine shop......and the intake from Monte....I'm shooting for mid to late January to fire it up......Are you Man enough to make the drive to Oklahoma???
He flat out called me a liar and BSer......so I stepped up, and he crawfished out.......
instead of just bestowing the small number of people on moparts with your superior knowledgeQuote:
You can keep throwing your bet crap all you want...
I just dont bet... never have and still dont...
so lets just drop it right now... you have your
thoughts on it and I have mine... just that simple
OK
I'm talking facts, not thoughts........When we first started talking about this, I said all you have to do is try if for yourself and it went downhill from there...... Quote:
Your words exactly...."
More overlap in the new camshaft is just showing you how ineffecient your exhaust system is because now it's running on exhaust..."
but you're taking it out of context......I'm NOT saying that's it's inefficient at WOT, I'm saying that at idle it's not moving enough air so it's idling on exhaust..... Quote:
And what is with this: "ALL I did was remove the long tube headers and install block hugger "shorty" headers and I couldn't get it to idle below 1,500RPM..."
You insist repeatedly that you could no way get this small block to idle below 1500 rpm with shorty headers....I have never heard of people complaining about this phenomena....are all blockhugger/shorty header users doomed to have a 1500 rpm minimum idle ??!!!
I have installed shorty headers on a 440 and I was able to adjust the idle down quite well you Nitwit
Perhaps it should be your mission to warn others not to purchase these evil 1500 minimum rpm shorty headers
and just because you and P-body don't have the real life experiences that I have, doesn't mean it doesn't happen....(I've even seen a wild bear crap in the woods once.......) Quote:
Your references to people being "pudding boys" and "crawfishing out"...did you make it out of the 5th grade ??
After I told him how to find out for himself (see post #7960714) he says it's my "opinion".......so then I make the bet because I was trying to avoid page after page of "theories" ......and I'll get is excuses and more of his theories....... ......I'd rather show you.....You don't believe me either and I'm enough of a Nitwit that I'll pay you to teach me a lesson and I don't see anyone stepping up..........step up......I can make the drive to Fred's shop, been there a few times....
all talk, no action...