Moparts

lil disappointed

Posted By: sam64

lil disappointed - 11/03/13 10:07 PM

took my 65 coronet to Tulsa yesterday in hopes of a 9 sec pass,but 10.19@132.5 was all I got.512 lowdeck,cleaned up sr's,solid flat tappet cam .611-.620,268-272,single plane m1,1050 dom 90 square,3800 conv 727,4.30 31.5x10.5wx15 m/t,back half ladder bars.weighs 2990 race ready.1.52 60ft,4.24 330,6.517 1/8 107.37,10.194 132.49.me thinks need more stall,at about 100ft out I feels like you hit the nitrous button.i shifted it a 7,000.

Attached picture 7910771-024.jpg
Posted By: topfueldart

Re: lil disappointed - 11/03/13 10:20 PM

Definitely needs more converter, good work none the less!
Posted By: Wv68charger

Re: lil disappointed - 11/03/13 10:20 PM

Quote:

took my 65 coronet to Tulsa yesterday in hopes of a 9 sec pass,but [Email]10.19@132.5[/Email] was all I got.512 lowdeck,cleaned up sr's,solid flat tappet cam .611-.620,268-272,single plane m1,1050 dom 90 square,3800 conv 727,4.30 31.5x10.5wx15 m/t,back half ladder bars.weighs 2990 race ready.1.52 60ft,4.24 330,6.517 1/8 107.37,10.194 132.49.me thinks need more stall,at about 100ft out I feels like you hit the nitrous button.i shifted it a 7,000.




None the less BEAUTIFUL CAR! And those times are nothing to sneeze at!
Posted By: 1967Valiant

Re: lil disappointed - 11/03/13 10:22 PM

4500 converter 4.10 gear
Posted By: 67mprfan

Re: lil disappointed - 11/03/13 10:28 PM

Quote:

.1.52 60ft,4.24 330,6.517 1/8 107.37




look like it spun a little and recovered nicely

Good job

Attached picture 7910804-camerapicsdownload257.JPG
Posted By: dannysbee

Re: lil disappointed - 11/03/13 10:46 PM

60' should be around 1.39. If traction good and your 60' is consistent the converter is where I would go. Have you done any experimenting with your shift points? I would think that a 6500 shift point would get you down the track quicker.
Posted By: sam64

Re: lil disappointed - 11/03/13 11:14 PM

Quote:

60' should be around 1.39. If traction good and your 60' is consistent the converter is where I would go. Have you done any experimenting with your shift points? I would think that a 6500 shift point would get you down the track quicker.


only 6 passes with this engine combo,i can't feel it spin 60's all 1.51-52,but when it gets out 100ft it comes alive,at 6500 shifts it went 10.40.
Posted By: sam64

Re: lil disappointed - 11/03/13 11:18 PM

Quote:

4500 converter 4.10 gear


I have 14.5x32x15 m/t that would equal changing gears that I can try.
Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: lil disappointed - 11/03/13 11:20 PM

Quote:

60' should be around 1.39. If traction good and your 60' is consistent the converter is where I would go. Have you done any experimenting with your shift points? I would think that a 6500 shift point would get you down the track quicker.




I have a similar set-up, but my weight is 3330# at the line and 493 CI. I shift at 6400, have 4.10 gear with 29.5 tire...ET10.4x @131. I footbrake and leave at 1500RPM...flash 4500+. Similar 60' times.
Posted By: 493_DART

Re: lil disappointed - 11/03/13 11:25 PM

i agree with most--- 4500 or so stall , and shift it lower = try 6500 . my 493 likes just under 6k !

is that the Hughes cam ??? i have that same one
Posted By: sam64

Re: lil disappointed - 11/03/13 11:29 PM

Quote:

i agree with most--- 4500 or so stall , and shift it lower = try 6500 . my 493 likes just under 6k !

is that the Hughes cam ??? i have that same one


yes it's hughes cam and their 1.5 rockers.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: lil disappointed - 11/04/13 12:02 AM

Is it loading up do to much accellerator squirter or loading up from the carb.? I've seen similar results with to much squirter, ended up swapping out the rear 50CC pump and pump arm to a 30 CC pump and arm and went down to # 29 or #31 squirters, depending on winter or summer racing It should really snap off the line, even with that converter
Posted By: Eric

Re: lil disappointed - 11/04/13 12:13 AM

Maybe it's just me but I would be looking more at 5000-5200 on the converter...
Posted By: KOS

Re: lil disappointed - 11/04/13 12:27 AM

Quote:

Maybe it's just me but I would be looking more at 5000-5200 on the converter...




Posted By: DodgeCharger

Re: lil disappointed - 11/04/13 12:33 AM

Unless you are running out of RPM's at the end of the track keep your gear. I would even consider going to a lower gear with those tall tires.
Your converter should stall around where your motor makes peak torque. Your mph is low for a 9 second pass so you will have to make your 60ft count. With those big tires and a light car you should be able to do it. What type of rear suspension are you running? My buddy runs 1.39 60fts and his car is only a 10.50 car.
Posted By: ProSport

Re: lil disappointed - 11/04/13 12:46 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Maybe it's just me but I would be looking more at 5000-5200 on the converter...










I agree also, 5000+ custom built converter for your combo, keep your 4.30's, need to get that 60 foot down and the rest of the ET will come down with it.
Nice car and it runs good, you will easily hit 9's as you've only made 6 passes so far.
Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: lil disappointed - 11/04/13 01:44 AM

The part that gets me is it wakes up 100 feet out
How's the timing curve set up? Are you data logging or reading plugs?? At that weight the 60 should be low 1.4 or maybe high 3's
Posted By: sam64

Re: lil disappointed - 11/04/13 01:52 AM

i'm only leaving at 2200 on the foot brake,its starts pushing with anymore rpm.the 31.5 tire on it now is way shorter than the 32's I had on it.cab,i don't think it's loading up it doesn't bog per say.it almost feels like when you hit passing gear,it pulls that much harder at about 100 feet out.i forgot to take my gopro would been helpful to see what the tach showed.time to put it to bed for winter.
Posted By: Dads426

Re: lil disappointed - 11/04/13 02:02 AM

Quote:

How's the timing curve set up? Are you data logging or reading plugs?? At that weight the 60 should be low 1.4 or maybe high 3's




Definitely needs more convertor. We have a 5200 ATI; on a good track 60' is in the low 1.30's. MPH is an idication of HP, so it looks like it is a little down on power. Tune for max MPH, lower the shift point to 6500 and we only run 32 degrees timing (all in at idle). With an efficient combustion chamber you don't need a whole lot of timing. Good luck. Beautiful car!
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: lil disappointed - 11/04/13 02:04 AM

like hemiits asked,what is your timing curve and and like Cab said to much fuel at the hit will make it lazy especially if your timing is coming in slow

my old combo with a solid cam and 4000 converter would 60 in the 1.4s at 3700lbs. a 315 drag radial would be faster

I use to shift my standard port solid cam combo at 5800 and it ran 6.70s a lot heavier than you. your converter is fine. ports are to small
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: lil disappointed - 11/04/13 02:16 AM

Quote:

i agree with most--- 4500 or so stall , and shift it lower = try 6500 . my 493 likes just under 6k !

is that the Hughes cam ??? i have that same one




this guy is running my 4000 stall I had in my car and he shifts under 6k just like I use to.
Posted By: sam64

Re: lil disappointed - 11/04/13 02:38 AM

Quote:

The part that gets me is it wakes up 100 feet out
How's the timing curve set up? Are you data logging or reading plugs?? At that weight the 60 should be low 1.4 or maybe high 3's


at this point I haven't really tried any changes,dist is firecore otb,haven't pulled a plug yet,i was racing my other car and just took this one to put some passes on motor.the sr;s are standard port size.i will get a handle on it in the spring,i guess I was thinkin it was going to be way faster than the 440 I pulled out[10.80's@125].
Posted By: 572_dup2

Re: lil disappointed - 11/04/13 03:01 AM

There was only one good run in the track Saturday that was the first run. Went slower every pass after. Depending on what time you ran it got worse. I read my logger every run. Your setup may be just fine.
Posted By: 493_DART

Re: lil disappointed - 11/04/13 03:05 AM

Quote:

Quote:

i agree with most--- 4500 or so stall , and shift it lower = try 6500 . my 493 likes just under 6k !

is that the Hughes cam ??? i have that same one




this guy is running my 4000 stall I had in my car and he shifts under 6k just like I use to.




actually ray--- it flashes to 4500 in my car !

thats what i leave at---no 2 step--just mash the gas with the T brake on
Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: lil disappointed - 11/04/13 03:24 AM

Quote:

i'm only leaving at 2200 on the foot brake,its starts pushing with anymore rpm.the 31.5 tire on it now is way shorter than the 32's I had on it.cab,i don't think it's loading up it doesn't bog per say.it almost feels like when you hit passing gear,it pulls that much harder at about 100 feet out.i forgot to take my gopro would been helpful to see what the tach showed.time to put it to bed for winter.




Just re-read this thread and noticed your statement about 2200RPM or it starts pushing. Something wrong there!! Are the brakes bled good? If so, convertor is not near right. And the 100' take off makes me think the convertor is toast too.
Posted By: d7cook

Re: lil disappointed - 11/04/13 03:26 AM

At least a 5000 stall convertor.
Posted By: sam64

Re: lil disappointed - 11/04/13 03:27 AM

Quote:

There was only one good run in the track Saturday that was the first run. Went slower every pass after. Depending on what time you ran it got worse. I read my logger every run. Your setup may be just fine.


shawn I made 4 hits through out the day 10.25-19-21-19,i made the last pass at 3:03 as my 63 was picking up et,i had a good time.saw some old friends,my old race car[jeff flocks car]and came home with both cars in one piece.
Posted By: dannysbee

Re: lil disappointed - 11/04/13 04:57 AM

With the std. Port and the cam you are running in a 500+ inch engine 7000 rpm is going to be way past the power peak. Possibly you need to check the accuracy of your tach.
Posted By: poisondart2

Re: lil disappointed - 11/04/13 04:33 PM

Quote:

Is it loading up do to much accellerator squirter or loading up from the carb.? I've seen similar results with to much squirter, ended up swapping out the rear 50CC pump and pump arm to a 30 CC pump and arm and went down to # 29 or #31 squirters, depending on winter or summer racing It should really snap off the line, even with that converter




I think Cab is correct I went from a 1050 carb to a 1020 on one of my cars which had a 1.46 60 foot and went to 1.30 first time out! Nothing else was changed.
Posted By: dannysbee

Re: lil disappointed - 11/04/13 06:41 PM

Could be too big of a pump shot killing the hit. But pushing through the brakes at such a low rpm plus the slow 60' times are symptoms of a bad stator in the converter. Sometimes this stuff will make you want to pull your hair out.
Posted By: 67mprfan

Re: lil disappointed - 11/04/13 08:57 PM

Quote:

Is it loading up do to much accellerator squirter or loading up from the carb.? I've seen similar results with to much squirter, ended up swapping out the rear 50CC pump and pump arm to a 30 CC pump and arm and went down to # 29 or #31 squirters, depending on winter or summer racing It should really snap off the line, even with that converter




This looks like something to try in the spring

Is this a new build if so I've seen motors start breaking in with about 15 passes on the combo so maybe more runs will get you what you're looking for


Great job at least you came home with everything together

Attached picture 7911879-camerapicsdownload257.JPG
Posted By: sam64

Re: lil disappointed - 11/05/13 12:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Is it loading up do to much accellerator squirter or loading up from the carb.? I've seen similar results with to much squirter, ended up swapping out the rear 50CC pump and pump arm to a 30 CC pump and arm and went down to # 29 or #31 squirters, depending on winter or summer racing It should really snap off the line, even with that converter




This looks like something to try in the spring

Is this a new build if so I've seen motors start breaking in with about 15 passes on the combo so maybe more runs will get you what you're looking for


Great job at least you came home with everything together


yes it's a new motor 6 passes on it now,i will start tuning on it in the spring if I don't sell it first.
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: lil disappointed - 11/05/13 12:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Maybe it's just me but I would be looking more at 5000-5200 on the converter...










I agree also, 5000+ custom built converter for your combo, keep your 4.30's, need to get that 60 foot down and the rest of the ET will come down with it.
Nice car and it runs good, you will easily hit 9's as you've only made 6 passes so far.



I agree the converter is too tight. Shoot for 5,000 minimum, or 1300 rpm below shift point. You might want to try shifting at 6700 to 6800. I had a 499 with 440-1 heads, bowl work only on them, 283/290/110 solid roller, went 9.50s with a Dominater shifting at 6800. Part of the problem may well be the fuel curve of the carb. With a wide rpm spread and a big carb, It may very well be lean on the bottom and go richer as it rpms. Also, there is a lot of power in porting, which ought to be done at the same time as the converter selection. Once dialed in, your car ought to go 9.50s or better. That only takes about 725 hp, which is very reachable. Right now, using a 10.10 ET (better match to the MPH) I came up with only 595 hp on that run. There is a lot to get right, and then you will fly.
Posted By: tboomer

Re: lil disappointed - 11/05/13 01:23 PM

First of all let me say that car is a dandy! Very nice!! I also think that a better converter will help you. My junk has had a best of 1.386 60' but usually is in the 1.39 to 1.41 range. It also weighs over 3500# with the driver and has run 10.15 at almost 131 mph. We do need more jet in it. My heads are MW ports and a small roller. Keep looking I know you will find it! Good luck!! Ted
Posted By: ProSport

Re: lil disappointed - 11/05/13 04:25 PM

There's a 5200 stall 8" ATI in the race parts section for $450 on page 6. Not mine but I thought I'd let you know. I paid over $800 for mine new.
Posted By: sam64

Re: lil disappointed - 11/05/13 09:10 PM

Quote:

There's a 5200 stall 8" ATI in the race parts section for $450 on page 6. Not mine but I thought I'd let you know. I paid over $800 for mine new.


thanks for the heads up on the converter,but I will have one built for my combo if I keep the car.
Posted By: 70satelliteguy

Re: lil disappointed - 11/06/13 12:38 AM


If this is a new combination where is the cam installed at?
Posted By: fast68plymouth

Re: lil disappointed - 11/06/13 02:37 AM

i too am in the 4800-5000 stall camp.

but, i also think the speed is a bit low for your ET goals.

i would suggest opening the heads up to MW size and running a bigger manifold(Indy 400-3) to compliment the added stall.
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