Posted By: Bigbeep
Cracked Block! - 10/29/13 05:17 AM
Anyone ever see one crack in this area? 
Beep
Beep
Cracked Block!
Posted By: Bigbeep
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/29/13 05:25 AM
A little info on this block. 66 casting for a 67 model year. filled to the bottom of the water pump holes. Had pinned a crack last spring on the other side between freeze plugs and now it has cracked between the other freeze plugs on the drivers side and found this one this evening while laying under the car. No more money into this block. Doing some soul searching on which way to go. This will be the second block I kick off the tailgate at the scrap yard. Machine work alone in these 2 blocks would have got me half way to a indy block. 
So how much horsepower can one make with a low deck block? Is it 700ish like a RB? Beep
So how much horsepower can one make with a low deck block? Is it 700ish like a RB? Beep
Posted By: jamesc
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/29/13 05:41 AM
i'm guessing this it mounted with a motor plate so the crack near the mount can't be from stress.
is this engine left with water in it in freezing weather? just because it's filled doesn't mean water can't get around the fill and cause problems especially if the fill wasn't done carefully. those cracks look like they're from ice not HP.
even though i carefully filled mine and drilled drain holes at the level of the fill i still put antifreeze in it during the winter and circulate it for a while.
i just don't see those cracks coming from HP unless something weird is going on.
is this engine left with water in it in freezing weather? just because it's filled doesn't mean water can't get around the fill and cause problems especially if the fill wasn't done carefully. those cracks look like they're from ice not HP.
even though i carefully filled mine and drilled drain holes at the level of the fill i still put antifreeze in it during the winter and circulate it for a while.
i just don't see those cracks coming from HP unless something weird is going on.
Posted By: Bigbeep
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/29/13 06:00 AM
Nope! Never sits with plain water in it. Was sonic checked and magged before machining was done also.
Original crack happened in august at the 10k race 2 years ago. Thought it may have been a freeze plug seeping and would just relieve pressure after each pass. Later found that it was cracked next to the freeze plug. Was told that it was because it didn't have a mid plate and just a front motor plate wasn't enough. So I installed a mid plate which was no easy task. I ran it with sodium silicate last year the few times I had it out. By the mopar race at Norwalk it was leaking again so I parked it. This past spring I pulled it out and stich pinned it between the freeze plugs and it was good...... for a while. Now it is cracking between the front 2 freeze plugs and I found this vertical crack this evening as I was laying under it in disgust. I have also been told that the 66 and 67 blocks were the thinnest in the area at the bottom of the water jackets. I just wonder if it is too rigid with the fill in it and something has to give and it is the casting! Beep
Original crack happened in august at the 10k race 2 years ago. Thought it may have been a freeze plug seeping and would just relieve pressure after each pass. Later found that it was cracked next to the freeze plug. Was told that it was because it didn't have a mid plate and just a front motor plate wasn't enough. So I installed a mid plate which was no easy task. I ran it with sodium silicate last year the few times I had it out. By the mopar race at Norwalk it was leaking again so I parked it. This past spring I pulled it out and stich pinned it between the freeze plugs and it was good...... for a while. Now it is cracking between the front 2 freeze plugs and I found this vertical crack this evening as I was laying under it in disgust. I have also been told that the 66 and 67 blocks were the thinnest in the area at the bottom of the water jackets. I just wonder if it is too rigid with the fill in it and something has to give and it is the casting! Beep
Posted By: 451Cuda
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/29/13 06:21 AM
IMO find a nice early 400 block
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/29/13 06:56 AM
I've ran several different 440 wedges, 426 Hemi and 400 with Elephant ears on the front with no midplate and a stock type trans. mount,they never cracked anywhere 
I've never had, seen or heard of a stock block crack like yours that wasn't frozen first 
I've never had, seen or heard of a stock block crack like yours that wasn't frozen first
Posted By: 6bblFLASH
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/29/13 07:15 AM
Quote:
I've ran several different 440 wedges, 426 Hemi and 400 with Elephant ears on the front with no midplate and a stock type trans. mount,they never cracked anywhere
I thought the same thing,that vertical crack in particular. I have only seen vertical cracks from frost.
I suppose the filler has absorbed water and/or is porus enough the expand on its own when frozen
Posted By: 451Cuda
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/29/13 07:48 AM
Quote:Quote:
I've ran several different 440 wedges, 426 Hemi and 400 with Elephant ears on the front with no midplate and a stock type trans. mount,they never cracked anywhere
I thought the same thing,that vertical crack in particular. I have only seen vertical cracks from frost.
I suppose the filler has absorbed water and/or is porus enough the expand on its own when frozen
Possible the filler wasn't tamped during the pour, and had air voids?
Posted By: 1967Valiant
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/29/13 07:57 AM
A lot of people might not agree with me. When you fill a block I think you should put torque load on block. Ie heads mains pan rails bell housing. Then pour the block and let it set a month before any machine work. Just my opinion.
If I was in your position I would call Todd at Comp wedge engines
If I was in your position I would call Todd at Comp wedge engines
Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/29/13 09:31 AM
I'm thinking it's a 47 year old block that has a history that you don't know a thing about.
Then you pound on them with 600+ hp..
Just thinking out loud here.. Old Old blocks..
But, yes a 70's 400 block would be much better..
I've seen them take a beating and keep on ticking..
Chris..
Then you pound on them with 600+ hp..
Just thinking out loud here.. Old Old blocks..
But, yes a 70's 400 block would be much better..
I've seen them take a beating and keep on ticking..
Chris..
Posted By: viperblue72
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/29/13 10:37 AM
I have seen a small block crack right there, and it was from a front impact with a ditch. Maybe this block was in a car that had been in a collision in the past, altough I would think a sonic check would have caught it.
Posted By: dvw
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/29/13 11:22 AM
Quote:
I have seen a small block crack right there, and it was from a front impact with a ditch. Maybe this block was in a car that had been in a collision in the past, altough I would think a sonic check would have caught it.
I've seen the them,frozen,w/o block filler. Now I can say when we knocked the inside water jacket out of a Hemi from a broken rod. I covered it with bondo, filled with hardblock and Moroso Ceramic seal. Ran it for 2 years. 2nd Hemi block numerous cracks in the side, and Moroso Ceramic seal, never leaked. 440 block cracked between the freeze plugs, Moroso Ceramic seal, never leaked. Just my experience.
Doug
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/29/13 02:55 PM
Those look like freeze cracks to me.
Posted By: Dodgem
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/29/13 03:32 PM
Quote:
i'm guessing this it mounted with a motor plate so the crack near the mount can't be from stress.
is this engine left with water in it in freezing weather? just because it's filled doesn't mean water can't get around the fill and cause problems especially if the fill wasn't done carefully. those cracks look like they're from ice not HP.
even though i carefully filled mine and drilled drain holes at the level of the fill i still put antifreeze in it during the winter and circulate it for a while.
i just don't see those cracks coming from HP unless something weird is going on.
I've seen that crack down the frost plug lines before. It's more common than one would think stating with older b and RB engines. One of the reasons they put a stiffening rib down the sides of the blocks in late 1968 and 1969 and up models.
Posted By: Bigbeep
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/29/13 11:43 PM
If it matters the fill in this block is a 2 part epoxy that actually has iron in it. If my memory serves me, my machinist did have it cure for a week before doing any work to it.
It may be the case that it was froze at some point in its lifespan. I would have thought that it would have shown up when magged.
On the 400 block suggestion. How much steam can you make with one safely? Thanks, Beep
It may be the case that it was froze at some point in its lifespan. I would have thought that it would have shown up when magged.
On the 400 block suggestion. How much steam can you make with one safely? Thanks, Beep
Posted By: Bigbeep
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/30/13 12:05 AM
Quote:Quote:
I've ran several different 440 wedges, 426 Hemi and 400 with Elephant ears on the front with no midplate and a stock type trans. mount,they never cracked anywhere
I thought the same thing,that vertical crack in particular. I have only seen vertical cracks from frost.
I suppose the filler has absorbed water and/or is porus enough the expand on its own when frozen
It hasn't froze since I assembled it in 2011. Beep
Posted By: pittsburghracer
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/30/13 12:14 AM
That is an easy fix with today's nickle rod.
Posted By: roadhazard
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/30/13 12:16 AM
Sorry to see that John 
How do you manage to keep the side of that block so clean?
How do you manage to keep the side of that block so clean?
Posted By: Eric
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/30/13 12:17 AM
I've heard the 66' blocks are among the worst. I had one in the Duster and it broke also...with much less HP...If you want I have a 76 440 short block you can have...going to need some cleaning up..
Posted By: Wv68charger
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/30/13 01:54 AM
John I hate to see a post like this but I can tell you if and when you build another one it's worth the wait to buy an Indy block just be sure to have it checked out and go big if your budget can afford it you will be much better off.
Posted By: Bigbeep
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/30/13 02:23 AM
Quote:
I've heard the 66' blocks are among the worst. I had one in the Duster and it broke also...with much less HP...If you want I have a 76 440 short block you can have...going to need some cleaning up..
Thanks Eric but I am ok on blocks here. Just not sure which way to go right now with the budget at hand. Thanks for the offer though. Beep
Posted By: dmking
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/30/13 02:30 AM
go with the 400 block. i have cracked a 73 440. up threw the mains and a crack between the freezrplugs all on the drivers side.
i got a thick 440 late block. we shall see how this lasts but i
will build a 400 next no more 440 that are stepped on sort of hard.
good luck.
i got a thick 440 late block. we shall see how this lasts but i
will build a 400 next no more 440 that are stepped on sort of hard.
good luck.
Posted By: Bigbeep
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/30/13 02:33 AM
Quote:
Sorry to see that John
How do you manage to keep the side of that block so clean?
Aren't they all that clean? Vacuum pump makes keeping the slippery stuff on the inside easy! doesn't seem to be working for the coolant though..............
Oh and some really, really good gaskets buddy! Beep
Posted By: Bigbeep
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/30/13 02:37 AM
Quote:
John I hate to see a post like this but I can tell you if and when you build another one it's worth the wait to buy an Indy block just be sure to have it checked out and go big if your budget can afford it you will be much better off.
Yeah an Indy block is at the top of my wish list. But reality I'm sure, will keep me grounded. Beep
Posted By: ChrgrCuda
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/30/13 02:58 AM
Dam, sorry to hear about this John. Like many of the folks that are 10 times smarter and more experienced then me, I would go with the 400 block as well. Good luck man, can't wait to see one of my favorite Mopars back up and running!
Posted By: cudadon
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/30/13 03:00 AM
Quote:
How much steam can you make with one safely? Thanks, Beep
John my 400/493 makes around 750 HP. Flat tappet cam, 12.7 comp., nothing very fancy.
Don
Posted By: AndyF
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/30/13 03:22 AM
I've never seen a vertical crack in that location but the horizontal crack between the freeze plugs is very common. That vertical crack is interesting. There shouldn't be much stress in that area. Hard to say without looking at the parts during a tear down. Rotating assembly could be out of balance, maybe detonation, maybe something bad going on with the hard block.
Posted By: 67mprfan
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/30/13 06:59 PM
[quote I have also been told that the 66 and 67 blocks were the thinnest in the area at the bottom of the water jackets. Beep
I hope that's not true I got a line on a 66 or 67 block
Sorry about the miss fortune
I hope that's not true I got a line on a 66 or 67 block
Sorry about the miss fortune
Posted By: dogdays
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/30/13 07:49 PM
I think AndyF had a great thought - it could be the hard-block.
R.
R.
Posted By: Bigbeep
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/31/13 05:08 AM
I am pretty sure it is a result of the fill. If you look at the vertical crack location, it starts about a 1/2" below the top of the fill. And the cracks along the side are at the bottom of the water jacket around the cylinders. No more bandaids on this one. Beep
And the cracks along the side are at the bottom of the water jacket around the cylinders. No more bandaids on this one. Beep
Posted By: Sport440
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/31/13 05:31 AM
Quote:
I am pretty sure it is a result of the fill. If you look at the vertical crack location, it starts about a 1/2" below the top of the fill.
No doubt IMO its a result of a Fill gone bad problem . Its probably and most likely effecting the roundness of the cylinders as well.
The outside cracks can be easily welded with todays tech. But I wouldnt trust whats happening with the inside cylinders contorsions. Scrap it, IMO
Posted By: pittsburghracer
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/31/13 02:07 PM
Kinda funny how guys use concrete to prevent problem and then it causes other issues. 35+ years of running stock blocks and NEVER filled one yet. Concrete's for sidewalks, driveways, and in-ground swimming pools.
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: Cracked Block! - 10/31/13 05:57 PM
Unless the inside of the block is perfectly clean the hardblock will not adhere to the casting and water will migrate between the wall and filler.We have seen poured blocks that cracked similar because the fill closed of water circulation and caused overheating and with expansion cracked the block,no freezing involved.
Posted By: oldtimer5151
Re: Cracked Block! - 11/01/13 12:24 AM
I have never been a fan of filling the block with any thing except coolant. There are hormonics inside that have to be asorbed. Oil and coolant do more than their share of absorbing the these bad boys. Filling the block with a hard surface just intensifies these hormonics. Like Bob said if it is loose it will act like a hammer inside.