Moparts
Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!!
Posted By: VernMotor
Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/16/13 09:46 PM
Posted By: Guitar Jones
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/16/13 09:48 PM
I've broken 3 small blocks and one big block. The big block did more damage than any of the small blocks did. Broke the cam like yours too. Just build it bigger and badder this time.
Posted By: AAR-B4
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/16/13 09:49 PM
Yeah, a rod and then some more.
Sorry for your loss,
Posted By: tboomer
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/16/13 09:51 PM
Crap!! Hate to see that,Vern...
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/16/13 09:56 PM
Man that sucks..........what rods?
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/16/13 10:00 PM
Eagle's
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/16/13 10:04 PM
Me too.............
Posted By: Triple Threat
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/16/13 10:05 PM
That sucks Vern, hopefully most of it is saveable.
Posted By: a493demon
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/16/13 10:11 PM
that suck's jamie
Posted By: Sport440
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/16/13 10:13 PM
Quote:
Eagle's
Did these replace the 440 source rods that you were running and having problems with?
Must see more when you tear this motor down.
Posted By: dustergirl340
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/16/13 10:16 PM
I didn't see it but heard the announcer over the loudspeakers...Sorry to see that.
At least it didn't happen while going over 100 MPH!
Posted By: tex013
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/16/13 10:43 PM
that's nasty
not that old were they ?
Tex
Posted By: 340RICK
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/16/13 10:44 PM
Jamie I felt so bad for you, that really sucks
Posted By: dvw
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/16/13 10:45 PM
Sorry to see. Did it lock a bearing or just flat out break? If I never saw another motor failure for someone, I'd be happy.
Doug
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/16/13 11:16 PM
Rod just broke on the small end. still bolted to the crank. spin's just fine. no discolor anywhere. rods have about 200 runs on them when I put them in this motor. new wrist pin bushing and bolts. look them over real good. car ran great on the last time run. no signs of anything wrong. good oil pressure in the staging lanes. wrist pin is still in the piston. I will take some more pics as I get it apart.
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/16/13 11:25 PM
I heard about it and was going to come by and see you,but I didn't figure you needed company at the time.
Its always something.. Sorry for your luck.
Keith
Really sorry to see this Vern,,,,,tear it down and try and get a handle on what happened. Best of luck to you.
Posted By: RUNCHARGER
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 12:17 AM
Sorry, never good news no matter who it is.
Sheldon
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 12:39 AM
oh man that looks painful
Posted By: bfury
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 12:58 AM
I was in the stands when you broke. Sorry to see that. Looks like an expensive repair. Best of luck with the rebuild. See you next year.
Posted By: WHITEDART
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 01:10 AM
that sucks.. got one of those broken motors in the garage
Posted By: bigdad
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 03:09 AM
Dog gone it !!!
I hate to see one fail
My little 383 was running strong , went 11.58 !
Posted By: B3RE
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 03:40 AM
Sorry to hear/see that. Hopefully the top end survived.
Posted By: Dodgem
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 04:17 AM
That sucks!!! been there! regroup and build it bigger better faster!
Posted By: Dodgem
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 04:18 AM
Thar sucks been there regroup and build it bigger better faster!
Posted By: ProStDodge
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 01:51 PM
Ouch, I saw it and immediately figured you were in trouble for breaking Jenni's car.
At least it was before the pass. Would have been real ugly in second or third gear going down the track. It sure dumped ALL the oil out very quickly.
Hope you get it back running soon!
Scott
Posted By: THE GLASS MAN
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 02:09 PM
Quote:
Rod just broke on the small end. still bolted to the crank. spin's just fine. no discolor anywhere. rods have about 200 runs on them when I put them in this motor. new wrist pin bushing and bolts. look them over real good. car ran great on the last time run. no signs of anything wrong. good oil pressure in the staging lanes. wrist pin is still in the piston. I will take some more pics as I get it apart.
Same thing happened with our Hemi motor with Eagle rods last year. Vern described our engine perfectly.
Posted By: roadhazard
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 02:33 PM
I really hate to see that Jamie
Best of luck getting regrouped and back together
Posted By: GTX MATT
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 03:16 PM
Ouch, what RPM did you shift and trap at? How heavy are the pistons?
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 03:49 PM
New Icon pistons= light shift at 6000 traps=6400.
might see 6500 in the water box a few times
Posted By: GTX MATT
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 03:57 PM
Wow thats junk! I hope my Scat rods fare better
Posted By: MRMOPAR622
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 03:58 PM
Big Block Mopars have oiling problems!*! Looking at the oiling system on a Mopar engine there design is head & shoulders above the rest,but in the Real World(best term I can think of)they are the worst!With that being said all engines break rods but not like Mopar engines,some are quick to point out using cheap parts but I use only the best in mind and have broke more than my fair share.
There are some very Smart people on here and it looks like between all of us we could solve the problem.
PS I did not mean to Hi-Jack the OP post,and like I said above I know how he feels as I have broke more than my fair share.Just hoping that maybe for once all of us could work together and try an find a fix for all of our rod breakage in Mopar engines!
That sucks
I've seen numerous engines destroyed by Eagle connecting rod failures! Whats the old saying....you get what you payed for.
Posted By: dizuster
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 04:19 PM
Quote:
Big Block Mopars have oiling problems!*!
If the rod broke in half, and the big end is still connected and spinning on the crank, you can't blame oiling for that one!
Posted By: GTX MATT
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 04:30 PM
Quote:
With that being said all engines break rods but not like Mopar engines
Are you serious? Have you ever heard of a company called Buick? How about Oldsmobile? Pontiac? The only question when racing a BOP engine is which will it do first, spin a bearing or throw a rod?
I don't see many Mopars breaking rods
Posted By: dartman366
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 04:57 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Big Block Mopars have oiling problems!*!
If the rod broke in half, and the big end is still connected and spinning on the crank, you can't blame oiling for that one!
I think it was just simply a rod failure,,I know I felt sick as I heard the announcment of the carnage, and wondered what went wrong as I was headed up with the quad and tow strap to bring him home, I just thanked god it didn't happen down track. 
Posted By: max_maniac
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 05:36 PM
Sorry to see that Jamie and if there is anything I can do let me know. I do know the feeling and it's not a good one for sure. The best thing for me was when mine blew up it was a great excuse to build a bigger one
Russ
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 06:38 PM
Todd I did't get any PM from you ?
Give me a minute to type it!!!!!
Posted By: aspenrt360
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 07:19 PM
Quote:
Give me a minute to type it!!!!!
Ha! super quick respnose!
Posted By: dartman366
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 07:25 PM
Quote:
Give me a minute to type it!!!!!
Sorry Jamie but you went red bigtime on that one!!
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 09:58 PM
No I was not red... !!!
Posted By: Triple Threat
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 10:45 PM
LB3A
Posted By: jamesc
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/17/13 11:15 PM
hate to see broken parts like that. not being a smart a$$ but what rods will you be using in the next build?
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/18/13 01:10 AM
good question James.. maybe K1 or Molnar ? I not sure it was completely the rod fraud yet. I just got the head off. will post some more pics here in a few. Face it there are 1000s of motor's out there with eagle rods in them.with more hp Than I got.
Posted By: Labratt
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/18/13 01:22 AM
Very sorry to hear that,Vern!
NO rod is bulletproof!
And as far as Big Block's having oiling problems....BS!
Hope you build an even BETTER motor next time around!
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/18/13 01:30 AM
What...you dont trust me????....
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/18/13 02:05 AM
I Just thought I throw it out there and see:) you know I trust ya !
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/18/13 02:06 AM
You look at them new pics I put in the first post ?
Posted By: Sport440
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/18/13 02:07 AM
From your new pics, it looks like there was a little heat at the wrist pin, on just the one pic, the other no heat, just a simple break. And then smash baam and all the rest. Is there any evidence of heat there or is that just the pics shadows.
Sorry to hear of the mayham, Jamie.
Posted By: n20mstr
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/18/13 02:08 AM
im no expert....
BUT i would speculate that the cyl wall cracked....
filled that hole with some water and...then your rod broke
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/18/13 02:08 AM
It is just the pic. I can not see any signs of heat at all.
Posted By: tubtar
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/18/13 02:10 AM
Quote:
im no expert....
BUT i would speculate that the cyl wall cracked....
filled that hole with some water and...then your rod broke
You might be on to something there. The wall looks a little thin where it opened up.
Sorry for your bad luck. It definitely looks expensive.
Posted By: Sport440
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/18/13 02:11 AM
Quote:
im no expert....
BUT i would speculate that the cyl wall cracked....
filled that hole with some water and...then your rod broke
At first I considered that too, but a broken rod at the wrist pin, will beat that area up pretty bad if its still attached to the crank, and it was.
Posted By: Twostick
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/18/13 02:12 AM
So what broke first, the piston, the rod or might it have seized a pin?
Kevin
Posted By: Sport440
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/18/13 02:23 AM
Quote:
So what broke first, the piston, the rod or might it have seized a pin?
Kevin
With Jamies last post about no heat, and looking at the piston again, with it being beat out pretty good at the angle the rod would beat on it, is simply the rod broke first for sure IMO at the wrist pin, all else followed.
The good news, IMO is it got shut down fast enough to save the heads. Ive seen mayham spread to a bunch of other cylinders causing alot more damage to the rest of the chambers.
Posted By: dustergirl340
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! head off more pics - 09/18/13 02:26 AM
I have never seen an oil ring wrapped around valves before.
Hell, if you're gonna break, might as well make it memorable.
Posted By: CompWedgeEngines
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! head off more pics - 09/18/13 02:39 AM
You know Jamie Dustergirl....always showboating for the glamour shots !
I didnt look at them yet Jamie no.,
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! head off more pics - 09/18/13 02:41 AM
My wife said.. when you break them you make sure no one else is ever going to use it again..good job ! LOL that is after she cry'ed
Posted By: ksj
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! head off more pics - 09/18/13 04:50 AM
Jamie"Grenade"Vernon has a nice ring to it.Hang in there.
Posted By: dartman366
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! head off more pics - 09/18/13 05:46 AM
Quote:
My wife said.. when you break them you make sure no one else is ever going to use it again..good job ! LOL that is after she cry'ed
Sooooo, have you broken the news to Terry yet? 
Posted By: GTX MATT
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/18/13 07:10 AM
Quote:
So what broke first, the piston, the rod or might it have seized a pin?
Kevin
My initial thought was maybe the pin seized, as I've heard that aftermarket rods can be too tight on the small end. The thing I've never understand about a seized pin is why would it matter if the pin seized in the rod if its full floating? It would need to seize in the rod and the piston, would it not?
Posted By: d7cook
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/18/13 03:23 PM
I just built a 440 with Scat rods. Standard rod bolt not the ARP 2000 bolts. It ran 11.00's the first night out shifting at 6400 but when I went to check the timing the next day it had a noise coming from the bottom of the engine. When I pulled the pan I found one of the rod bolts hadn't been torqued and had backed out about 1/4". It was hitting the windage tray. The rod cap and opposite bolt where bent up. Amazingly the crank was fine and I replaced the rod and bearing and went 10.90's the next weekend.
Posted By: Roughbird72
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/18/13 04:06 PM
I do believe i've seen enough engine carnage pictures for the week.
Posted By: super451b
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/18/13 10:00 PM
Quote:
im no expert....
BUT i would speculate that the cyl wall cracked....
filled that hole with some water and...then your rod broke
Posted By: kissmyaspen
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! head off more pics - 09/19/13 04:02 PM
Quote:
I have never seen an oil ring wrapped around valves before.
Hell, if you're gonna break, might as well make it memorable.
I think he installed it wrong.. and one question did you let brian spring touch the car in anyway??
But that really sucks to hear and see..
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! head off more pics - 09/19/13 06:56 PM
HA HA LMAO I did park next to him !
Posted By: dartman366
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! head off more pics - 09/19/13 07:02 PM
Quote:
HA HA LMAO I did park next to him !
thats cruel.
Posted By: 360904
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! head off more pics - 09/19/13 07:10 PM
Posted By: cesar perez
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! head off more pics - 09/19/13 07:41 PM
VERN DO NOT LOOK ANY FURTHER ITS NOT A ROD ITS NOT BEARINGS ITS NOT ENGINE BUILDER ITS A LOOSE CONVERTER BOLT THAT HIT THE CAM SECTION IN THE REAR OF THE BLOCK AND KABOOM-WHEN I SAW THOSE PICTURES I GOT FLASH BACKS BEEN THERE DONE THAT I FEEL YOUR PAIN
Posted By: Rodsports
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! head off more pics - 09/21/13 10:19 AM
Vern,
If nothing else, it is SPECTACULAR to look at. But I agree, ouch.....
Posted By: Moore & Moore
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! head off more pics - 09/21/13 12:55 PM
What size is the wrist pin? (1.094 or .990)? Does Eagle use the same forging for both pins and bush them differently?
Posted By: cgall
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! head off more pics - 09/21/13 03:15 PM
Vern, is that an I-beam rod with a pressed pin? I use Eagle h-beam with 990 floating pin and my car goes thru the traps at 7200 and I have 390 runs on the engine.
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! head off more pics - 09/21/13 04:00 PM
Eagle h-beam 1.094 pin floating pin. Jack I do not know ?
Posted By: FastmOp
Re: Ok so I broke a rod ! - 09/22/13 04:44 AM
I like that price sheet
I need a few things on that list.
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/22/13 11:26 PM
New pics add'ed to the first post !
Posted By: 8urvette
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/23/13 03:13 AM
At that point I would cut my losses with that build and go for something different.
How about a small block, with a nice set of twin turbos and fuel injection???
Or you can buy my 540 off me and ill build the TTSB
Sorry to see that, I hate seeing other peoples carnage. For me, its just a chance for a new beginning. I get so side tracked that by the time I am close to finishing a project I am ready for something new any how.
Posted By: jamesc
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/23/13 03:36 AM
i know there are tons of chinese cranks and rods in use out there. personally i'm just scared of them, the rods especially. not that premium parts can't/don't fail but i would think using a quality usa forged/billet/machined rod would be money well spent when you consider all the collateral damage that can occur when a rod fails. problem is there aren't a lot of choices for usa made rods and while the machine work that some are doing in the us should be superior you're still working with an imported blank
personally the only chinese part i have is a crank i've yet to use. the rods i have/used are BME, manley and oliver
Vern you didn't play around, that's a real mess you made there. was just looking at a friends roundy engine the other day that he did something similar. callies ultra lite crank, oliver rods the works. didn't get real far into it but looks like a bearing failed and the engine had been recently gone through. no signs of other oiling distress just a bearing that failed and he ran it till it pitched the rod
Posted By: max_maniac
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/23/13 03:43 AM
Jamie I know someone that can fix that!!!!!!
Like I said sorry to see that but come back bigger and better. Let me know if I can help.
Russ
Posted By: Sport440
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/23/13 03:44 AM
Jamie with the rod out in one pic it looks like rotational heat at the pin and another pic, just impact heat from hammering things about.
With full floating wrist pins I cant see how any rotational heat could be possible.
Someone else stated a cracked cylinder and then a hydrolock, if there is no readable rotational heat transmitted into the top part of the rod, then , thats probably what happend.
From the new pics I cant tell, it looks like heat in one and not the other. You being there will be the best judge. No doubt at the rods main journal everythings fine.
That is a very unhappy mess.
Posted By: Sport440
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/23/13 03:48 AM
Max, you lost a engine too, what was the cause of your mess? I hope that was a old, old pic.
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/23/13 03:09 PM
Ok I tell what I think. I did a leak down and compression test a week ago. It was great. I never seen anything to make me think cy wall was cracked.I know all the signs of that. the last motor that cy went though 2 sleeves over that. with that said. that rod was in that cy. I think something was wrong with that rod when I put it in Had new bushing put in all the rods. would of thought if you could seen it. the machineist or I would of seen it. with that said .I never reuse a set of rods .. I think at this point the rod just broke. there is no signs of heat anywhere. you would of seen that in the bushing.Thats is what I think right or wrong.still need to take it all up to the machinist see what he thinks LOL
Posted By: Twostick
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/23/13 06:30 PM
How many laps on those rods? A roundy round builder in my neck of the woods uses a brand name hi $$ rod in his DIRT Modified engines and he tells his customers they are good for 600 laps. A few of those customers thought that was silly. None of those engines made it to 700.
Kevin
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/23/13 07:55 PM
Jamie.. just looking at the first piston pic, do you
think the wrist pin can out and took out the cyl wall..
I've seen failures before but on yours the pin is
sticking out... doesnt look like the pin has any
damage but cant see the other side... sorry about
the breakage
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/24/13 12:12 AM
200 runs on the rods. Mike I thought about the pin. But as odd as it is. The only part of the cy wall that is still there is where the pin would ride. not a mark on it..??
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/24/13 01:06 AM
Quote:
200 runs on the rods. Mike I thought about the pin. But as odd as it is. The only part of the cy wall that is still there is where the pin would ride. not a mark on it..??
OK... I found it a bit strange that the pin was out
a 1/4" or so... when I've blown rods the pin has always
been in tact and in the proper location but like you
said the wall in that area was good... what about
the opposite side... like it slid one way then busted
out the wall and kicked it back hard enough to knock
the clips out... just trying to think of the problem
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/24/13 01:30 AM
the clip/lock is still in the other side.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/24/13 01:58 AM
Quote:
the clip/lock is still in the other side.
Well that rules that out... now I have to go back
to thinking... that hard for me.. LOL... but I like
to analise the "why it did it"
Posted By: 375inStroke
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/24/13 03:27 AM
Were these rods ever magnafluxed or had another type of inspection? Do steel rods fatigue, and need to be replaced? I thought rods broke on the top of the exhaust stroke when there is no pressure pushing down on the piston, and it is pulling the rod apart at the start of the intake stroke. When does power start putting more stress on the rod than what I just described? What are the strength differences between I beam and H beam rods? Why would one want one over the other?
Posted By: n20mstr
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/24/13 03:40 AM
sorry guys, Im sticking to what i said ....
That cyl wall cracked and let the water in.
These blocks flex too much , thats it
Posted By: dartman366
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/24/13 05:53 AM
Quote:
sorry guys, Im sticking to what i said ....
That cyl wall cracked and let the water in.
These blocks flex too much , thats it
I have stared at those pic's for a week now and the more I look at them the more I have to agree with you, I think the block failed and broke the rod when the piston fell into the void and tried to turn it on the rod to the point it pulled the top of the rod off,,look at the hole in the side of the piston and the gouge marks in the crown of the piston from where I feel the missing cyl wall caught the top of the piston.
Posted By: Super Scamp
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/24/13 01:10 PM
You cracked the block she Hydroed and that's the evil coming out of that block..
Ask how I know.. look at this mess..
Posted By: Super Scamp
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/24/13 01:12 PM
The Evil
Posted By: Super Scamp
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/24/13 01:16 PM
Last bit of evil ..
Posted By: dennismopar73
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/24/13 01:27 PM
I think the cam broke !!!!
JMO
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: Ok so I broke a rod !Oil Pan off New pics !!! - 09/24/13 03:39 PM
Quote:
I think the cam broke !!!!
JMO
I thought about this..Brand new cam. 50 runs on it.But you never know. Not sure we will ever know for sure. This block was sonic tested. I just don't know.
