Moparts

When is it time to try locking out the distributer?

Posted By: Dragula

When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/03/13 03:56 AM

Gots few passes on the old Hemi this year, and it still seems a little lazy at the hit...When do you guys decide to try it and why? Do I need a start retard?
Posted By: LAD 524

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/03/13 10:25 AM

Hey Drag Im curious re this one as well
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/03/13 10:31 AM

i guess when you can't figure out how to set it up correctly and leave the retard alone it's nothing but trouble
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/03/13 10:58 AM

When the cam duration gets real long the idle vacuum is so low it needs the full timing (or will tolerate it!) to idle properly. Th lower the idle vacuum, the lower the idle cylinder pressure at TDC, hence the need for more idle timing. Low cylinder pressure means a slow burn. If you have 260 degrees at .050 or more, try full advance and see. Less than that, I am not sure. It would depend on the intake closing point.
Posted By: Bad340fish

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/03/13 12:18 PM

My cam is 258@.050 and it loves the timing locked out. One thing I have noticed since I locked the timing out is that when warm it always starts like its fuel injected, tap the button and its alive.
Posted By: Dragula

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/03/13 01:22 PM

My current cam is 260° at .050" on intake and 268° at .050" on exhaust...I already had to shorten the throw on the mechanical advance to add timing at idle to get it to idle better, but it seems like it wants more yet....right now I have it at 15° at idle, 35° total. Just seems a little lazy, but I am used to injection too....I was thinking of shortening up the mechanical advance some more, but wondered, if its that short, why not just lock it out...
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/03/13 01:32 PM

Quote:

Gots few passes on the old Hemi this year, and it still seems a little lazy at the hit...When do you guys decide to try it and why? Do I need a start retard?



I dont like to lock them out unless you keep advancing
the timing to have it idle right and that point is
in the 25* area... then its less than 10* of total
advance... I like to curve the dist so it starts nice
and advances to its total at about 1500-1800rpm
EDIT
you just dont want the start of the advance point
to be at the same rpm that you idle at.. that will
cause hassles when trying to get it to idle
Posted By: mopartuner

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/03/13 02:30 PM

Does the compression or fuel you run have a bearing on this?My cam is 262/274 @ .050 and I run 94 oct pump fuel,does this make a difference?I am having a bit of an issue getting a clean idle and starting it.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/03/13 02:38 PM

Quote:

Does the compression or fuel you run have a bearing on this?My cam is 262/274 @ .050 and I run 94 oct pump fuel,does this make a difference?I am having a bit of an issue getting a clean idle and starting it.



Whats your set up now... the dist in my Rampage is
locked at 40* right now and when its warn its a bit
to much... that dist we put in it on the dyno but I
am changing it to use advance (this is on a 416)..
the cam is 260/270 and was running 93 octane with
10.6 compression... higher compression does have a
effect on it.. the more compression the more it wants
to kick back
Posted By: emarine01

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/03/13 02:50 PM

I also think once your duration gets up to the 260s.@.050 locking out is fine, We run 32 to 34 locked depends on the fuel and air temps, If you run a hi stall converter a curved dist is not necessary, a timing retard may be needed on hi compression 14+, ya have to play with it and see what it likes.
Posted By: mopartuner

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/03/13 02:54 PM

I am only giving it 14 deg at idle/32 deg total.I want to keep the timing down a bit,my last build showed signs of detonation.I run an MSD pro billet dizzy with the largest bushing and the lightest spring.18 degree swing with the black bushing.The cam is installed at 104 cl .
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/03/13 03:02 PM

Quote:

I am only giving it 14 deg at idle/32 deg total.I want to keep the timing down a bit,my last build showed signs of detonation.I run an MSD pro billet dizzy with the largest bushing and the lightest spring.18 degree swing with the black bushing.The cam is installed at 104 cl .



Thats low base timing for a cam that big... I would
think you would be closer to 20* base and limit the
total to what you need
Posted By: firefighter3931

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/03/13 03:04 PM

Quote:

I am only giving it 14 deg at idle/32 deg total.I want to keep the timing down a bit,my last build showed signs of detonation.I run an MSD pro billet dizzy with the largest bushing and the lightest spring.18 degree swing with the black bushing.The cam is installed at 104 cl .




Bob, that's a lot of cam with pump gas compression. My old 446 started and ran fine with a 264@.050 solid and i locked the distributor out and timed it at 35*.

Same deal with the 572 i have in there now ; pump gas compression and big solid roller. Starts and idles fine...even warm with the dizzy locked out at 35*

As long as it doesn't kick back i'd say lock it out



Ron
Posted By: mopartuner

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/03/13 03:15 PM

I think I will lock it out,Thanks for chimming in guys,didnt mean to hi-jack........alot of issues with this new build,
Posted By: RT540

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/03/13 04:22 PM

Some run the starter without ignition, and then switch on, after the starter got the engine cranking.
Next step that will get the timing rock steady, would be crank trigger.
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/03/13 05:34 PM

Been locked out for years w/275-280 @ .050 and 12.1.1 comp. and the start retard made it worse for me personally. Right now it`s at a conservative 32-33 degrees.............
Posted By: theraif

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/03/13 05:44 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Gots few passes on the old Hemi this year, and it still seems a little lazy at the hit...When do you guys decide to try it and why? Do I need a start retard?



I dont like to lock them out unless you keep advancing
the timing to have it idle right and that point is
in the 25* area... then its less than 10* of total
advance... I like to curve the dist so it starts nice
and advances to its total at about 1500-1800rpm
EDIT
you just dont want the start of the advance point
to be at the same rpm that you idle at.. that will
cause hassles when trying to get it to idle



that the set up we have full advance @1400 rpm
Posted By: Bad340fish

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/03/13 10:16 PM

Quote:

Some run the starter without ignition, and then switch on, after the starter got the engine cranking.
Next step that will get the timing rock steady, would be crank trigger.



Mine is setup so I can do that if needed. There has only been a few situations where I needed to do that. One was after driving in traffic for an hour and it was over 100* outside. It heat soaked and wanted to try and kicked back, spinning the starter and flipping the ignition switch let it light right up. Anytime I have had a kickback problem its been under extreme conditions and high ambient temps.
Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/03/13 10:20 PM

My old motor was 11.3:1 263/268@.050 and I ran it not locked out, 25 at idle, 35 total. Pump gas. It still wanted more at idle but it ran fine.

New motor is locked out. 12.3:1, NO start retard. 36 degrees 24/7 on E85

Looking back, I should have locked the timing on my old motor as well, throttle response is much better, and they roar to life easier.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/04/13 01:02 AM

Quote:

Gots few passes on the old Hemi this year, and it still seems a little lazy at the hit...When do you guys decide to try it and why? Do I need a start retard?

IMO, a locked out dist. is a race only application ( big gear, high stall, big duration cam - over 265 @.050" ) and if I were to go the route, I would be using a crank trigger set up and eliminate the dist and all it's inherent problems altogether.
Posted By: dennismopar73

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/04/13 02:17 AM

The only time you need advance is if you have a street car and your looking f
or fuel mileage!!
Most race car sit at the line either above 2500-4000 so there is nothing about an advance that can help if it sets and stays most tend to start flopping around and then wonder why the car goes one time not another! , then pull tools out start changing stuff then throw tools down load up go home in a stuper for a week, beet on your self ,
I say this story 1 because it's funny, but I have watched it happen!
Posted By: Dads426

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/04/13 02:48 AM

We just run one spring in the MSD distributor, so it cranks at the initial timing and then goes to full advance once it fires. No kickbacks and it cranks easily.
Posted By: 572charger

Re: When is it time to try locking out the distributer? - 08/04/13 12:01 PM

never locked mine out ! but mine is a street car
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