Moparts
Transmission cooler line question
Posted By: Sweigart1022
Transmission cooler line question - 07/08/13 12:45 PM
Is there a right way to run the transmission cooler lines for a B&M cooler. I have it mounted up front with 2 -6 lines going to it. Should the outlets on the transmission work better if say the front outlet goes to the top or the rear outlet goes to the top. Just trying to make sure it is 100% correct. It is a big block 727. Thank you for your help.
Posted By: modelmakerinc
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/08/13 01:05 PM
The only time it matters is when you are also using the radiator's trans cooler. You want the front line from the trans to go into the rads cooler then to the auxiliary.
Posted By: nosboy
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/08/13 02:02 PM
There IS A THEORY that heat rises,,, The fluid,, in theory,, SHOULD go into the top and,, as it cools,,, travel through the cooler and EXIT THE BOTTOM and return to the transmission... If you put it the other way,,,, the fluid won't get as cool,, because EVERYONE KNOWS that HEAT RISES ???? Make sense????
Posted By: Sweigart1022
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/08/13 03:20 PM
So which of the outlets on the transmission is the outlet and the inlet so to speak?
Posted By: Twostick
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/08/13 04:44 PM
Quote:
There IS A THEORY that heat rises,,, The fluid,, in theory,, SHOULD go into the top and,, as it cools,,, travel through the cooler and EXIT THE BOTTOM and return to the transmission... If you put it the other way,,,, the fluid won't get as cool,, because EVERYONE KNOWS that HEAT RISES ???? Make sense????
Actually everyone THINKS heat rises when in fact hot AIR rises and heat goes where it's pointed.
You usually want to pump fluid into a cooler from the "bottom" and return from the "top" so that no air can get trapped in the cooler and reduce it's efficiency. An example of this is if you hook up the heater hoses backwards on a heater core you will get a lot less heat in the car than if they are connected properly.
Kevin
Posted By: tubtar
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/08/13 04:52 PM
Quote:
You usually want to pump fluid into a cooler from the "bottom" and return from the "top" so that no air can get trapped in the cooler and reduce it's efficiency. An example of this is if you hook up the heater hoses backwards on a heater core you will get a lot less heat in the car than if they are connected properly.
Kevin
For the win. 
Posted By: dartman366
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/08/13 04:53 PM
Quote:
So which of the outlets on the transmission is the outlet and the inlet so to speak?
Front is outlet and rear is inlet, as far as the cooler, it really dont matter which you use as inlet/outlet, mine is long and narrow sitting in front of the radiator, the heat rises therory is correct but with most addon trans coolers that dont go thru the rad cooler first it makes absolutly no difference in cooling effect. 
Posted By: nosboy
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/08/13 07:03 PM
Quote:
Quote:
There IS A THEORY that heat rises,,, The fluid,, in theory,, SHOULD go into the top and,, as it cools,,, travel through the cooler and EXIT THE BOTTOM and return to the transmission... If you put it the other way,,,, the fluid won't get as cool,, because EVERYONE KNOWS that HEAT RISES ???? Make sense????
Actually everyone THINKS heat rises when in fact hot AIR rises and heat goes where it's pointed.
You usually want to pump fluid into a cooler from the "bottom" and return from the "top" so that no air can get trapped in the cooler and reduce it's efficiency. An example of this is if you hook up the heater hoses backwards on a heater core you will get a lot less heat in the car than if they are connected properly.
Kevin
OH BOY.. If you take an infrared temp gun and point it at the top of the cooler ,, it will be HOTTER than the bottom of the cooler regardless of WHERE the cooler lines are connected.... Another thing about putting the fluid IN the bottom and pulling it from the top,,,,,, WHO CARES if there is AIR anywhere,, it will be PUSHED OUT BY THE FLUID in a second or two... the bubbles couldn.t move faster than the flow of the trans fluid,, through the fluid... it will PUSH all of the air out of it.... IN the top and OUT the bottom... Hot on top and COOLER on the bottom.. KINDA LIKE the SAME WAY A RADIATOR WORKS....
Posted By: nosboy
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/08/13 07:04 PM
ANd I DID go to trans school !!!
Posted By: nosboy
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/08/13 07:06 PM
Unless you got a electric fan cooling that cooler down,, HEAT RISES.... Initially the input will be hotter than the output,, but,, after it heats up,,, well/..../....
Posted By: challengermike
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/08/13 10:51 PM
It makes no difference which line go's where. If it did they would tell you mount it in a certain manner. If it was a big concern just put the inlet and outlet aiming down or up.
Posted By: dizuster
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/08/13 11:41 PM
Quote:
OH BOY.. If you take an infrared temp gun and point it at the top of the cooler ,, it will be HOTTER than the bottom of the cooler regardless of WHERE the cooler lines are connected....
Now that is hilarious right there... so you're saying that the hot trans fluid coming into the cooler will actually get hotter before it exits if you plumb it upside down?!
In your "theory" that is the only way for the top (outlet) of the trans cooler to be hotter then the bottom (inlet)
That is one of the best ones I've heard in a while...
Posted By: rickraw
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/09/13 12:20 AM
It doesn't matter which line goes where. If a fan is installed it still don't matter. I too build transmission's. BIG ALLISONS.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/09/13 12:26 AM
On my cooler I ran the inlet to the bottom
Posted By: nosboy
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/09/13 02:26 PM
I NEVER said the fluid will get hotter,,,,, I MEANT that you will not get the FULL EFFECT or the FULL AMOUNT OF COOLING if you TAKE the fluid from the top.. HEAT RISES and the heat dissapated from the bottom of the cooler will Rise!!!! Will some of it heat up the top of the cooler,,, YES,, will the fluid be cooler if you remove it from the BOTTOM of the cooler than the top of the cooler??? YES.... WHY DO YOU THINK when there is a RADIATOR with a TRANS COOLER in there,, the fluid GOES IN THE TOP and comes out the bottom... DETROIT has DUMMIES for engineers???? COME ON GUYS .....
Posted By: nosboy
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/09/13 02:28 PM
IT REALLY DOES MATTER !!!
Posted By: nosboy
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/09/13 02:33 PM
Quote:
Quote:
OH BOY.. If you take an infrared temp gun and point it at the top of the cooler ,, it will be HOTTER than the bottom of the cooler regardless of WHERE the cooler lines are connected....
Now that is hilarious right there... so you're saying that the hot trans fluid coming into the cooler will actually get hotter before it exits if you plumb it upside down?!
In your "theory" that is the only way for the top (outlet) of the trans cooler to be hotter then the bottom (inlet)
That is one of the best ones I've heard in a while...
Maybe I had to re read that one.. If you take the inlet temp and the outlet temp,, naturally the fluid will be cooler from the outlet.. That's the whole idea of a cooler.... If you put the heated oil in the top and remove it from the bottom,, the overall temperature difference will be GREATER than if you inlet the bottom and outlet the top.. Some of the heat will be absorbed back into the top of the cooler because of the theory of HEAT RISES.....THUS limiting or stifling the function of the cooler...
Posted By: nosboy
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/09/13 02:41 PM
HERE YOU GO.. You're SIXTEEN years old,, you check your trans fluid and you're a little bit down... You do to the parts store, or local gas station and get a QUART of TRANS FLUID.. You get and old funnel OR use a piece of notebook paper and proceed to DUMP THE WHOLE QUART into the trans dipstick tube... Needless to say,, you just dumped WAY TOO MUCH OIL into the trans and now you have to get it BACK OUT... You go to the PARTS STORE and get either a piece of 5/16 OR 3/8 FUEL LINE and you proceed to take one of the COOLER LINES off of the RADIATOR to remove the fluid... WHICH ONE DO YOU TAKE OFF?????? THE TOP ONE,, because the trans fluid comes from the trans and GOES INTO THE TOP of the cooler.... You slip the hose over the trans line,, your buddie starts the car for 15 seconds and you pump the whole quart BACK INTO THE QUART CAN !!!!!.. DOES that BRING BACK MEMORIES??????
Posted By: Twostick
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/09/13 06:55 PM
Quote:
ANd I DID go to trans school !!!
Be that as it may, if you had paid attention in high school you would know that heat does not rise. Common misconception because hot air rises and most people's exposure to heat involves a furnace and a cold house.
Ever notice where they install industrial radiant gas heaters? Mostly on the ceiling pointed down. If your theory was true they wouldn't work very well.
Kevin
Posted By: nosboy
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/09/13 08:06 PM
Why,, YES.. Those systems don't work too well at all.. Did you ever notice HOT WATER BASEBOARD or Did you ever notice the little PLASTIC tubes embedded into the concrete???? WAY BETTER heating system...
Posted By: nosboy
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/09/13 08:12 PM
Quote:
Quote:
ANd I DID go to trans school !!!
Be that as it may, if you had paid attention in high school you would know that heat does not rise. Common misconception because hot air rises and most people's exposure to heat involves a furnace and a cold house.
Ever notice where they install industrial radiant gas heaters? Mostly on the ceiling pointed down. If your theory was true they wouldn't work very well.
Kevin
So you know.. FORD,, GM and MOPAR that use tanks on the SIDE of the radiator use the theory that the TOP of the radiator the HOT WATER / HOT TRANS FLUID ENTERS and at the bottom,,,, the cooled down water/coled down trans fluid exits... On a top and bottom tanked radiator,, the trans cooler is at the bottom and goes across the COOLER part of the radiator... THEORY all you want,, that's how the " BIG THREE'S" engineers figured it out.. You think your idea's smarter???? I THINK NOT !!!
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/09/13 09:09 PM
Heat rises... PERIOD.... look at a hot air balloon
Posted By: Twostick
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/09/13 09:30 PM
Quote:
Heat rises... PERIOD.... look at a hot air balloon
The operative words being "hot air". Hot air rises. Heat goes where it's pointed. Heat is energy, it isn't a "thing".
http://www.pa.msu.edu/sciencet/ask_st/042496.html
Kevin
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/09/13 09:49 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Heat rises... PERIOD.... look at a hot air balloon
The operative words being "hot air". Hot air rises. Heat goes where it's pointed. Heat is energy, it isn't a "thing".
http://www.pa.msu.edu/sciencet/ask_st/042496.html
Kevin
Exactly... heat rises... thats why a gravity
furnaces were in the BASEMENT (heat)
Posted By: nosboy
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/10/13 01:17 AM
Dude,,, the whole world runs trans fluid IN the top of the radiator and OUT of the bottom of the radiator... MOPAR and some Ford uses the COOLER side of the radiator ( bottom tank).. I don't really CARE what or where HEAT is DIRECTED,, the PROPER WAY is to PUT IT IN THE TOP and TAKE IT OUT OF THE BOTTOM.... Whatever way DETROIT ENGINEERING has a theory,,, the IN AT THE TOP and OUT at the BOTTOM is correct on MILLIONS OF AUTOMOBILES !!!! If you think they're wrong and YOUR IDEA IS RIGHT,, you're SADLY MISTAKEN ....
Posted By: instigator
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/10/13 02:04 AM
In my eyes it comes out of the bottom of the radiator because it acts as a sump..can't pump water from the top of the radiator, if there is any air in there......and a cooler should be pushed from the bottom so the entire cooler will be used instead of dropping the fluid into the cooler from the top.
Posted By: nosboy
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/10/13 03:32 AM
you're not dropping the fluid into the cooler.. the cooler actually has to SLOW DOWN the fluid and has to keep a pressure at the TOP OF THE COOLER because it takes some time for the heat to be removed from the fluid. the SLOWER the fluid goes through the cooler,, the BETTER !!! The HOT fluid comes from the pump/ convertor and the cooled fluid goes into the pan....
Posted By: dusturbd340W5
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/10/13 03:46 AM
the cooled fluid goes into the pan....
well not exactly, on a TF the cooled fluid first goes to the rear support, output shaft, the rear drum, planets and sun gear before returning to the pan.
But that is if you want to be technical. LOL
Posted By: dusturbd340W5
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/10/13 03:52 AM
on a side note I spent almost 30 years in the transmission industry, I have run every kind of cooler and line set up you could imagine, had temp gauges on all kinds of vehicles and cant say I seen any real difference in temps 1 way or the other based on line position.
That's just my
Posted By: rickraw
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/10/13 03:53 AM
That is correct. I'd like to know how the cooler slowes the fluid down. My cooler has, i beleive, has 5/8" tubes, no orfice in the lines. Wonder how that happens?
Posted By: modelmakerinc
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/10/13 12:26 PM
Wow, this thread became a bit bumpy, I am surprised by the topic, that it got a little heated
(lol)
The fluid slows down at the entry and through the cooler because of line size, the 5/8" tube takes twice the amount of fluid volume for any given distance as the 5/16 line.
Think of it like squeezing a garden hose, with x amount of pressure water flows smooth, make the outlet smaller makes more pressure less volume.
when you squeeze more volume into a smaller line the pressure increases.
In my opinion the differences in temp from top/bottom -in/out are negligible.
If you are adding a cooler to a stock system, it is important to run the front line into the radiator first then to the auxiliary cooler and back into the rear line. If you are using only an auxiliary cooler, in and out doesn't matter as much as size and cooling fan capabilities.
my Street/Strip Coronet front line into the lower cooler inlet.
Posted By: Sweigart1022
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/10/13 05:27 PM
So yea before this got out of hand as to whose house is heated better. You run the front line out of the transmission to the bottom of the cooler?
Posted By: dartman366
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/10/13 06:17 PM
Quote:
So yea before this got out of hand as to whose house is heated better. You run the front line out of the transmission to the bottom of the cooler?
That will work just fine, just make sure you can get air flow across it. 
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/10/13 08:29 PM
Any more we mount the cooler under the car so that air flows all around it.On coolers with fans we have mounted them to the rear of the car also.Some of the best coolers like for street driving(street rods)are mounted on the frame rails.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/10/13 10:17 PM
Quote:
So yea before this got out of hand as to whose house is heated better. You run the front line out of the transmission to the bottom of the cooler?
Thats the way I do it
Posted By: nosboy
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/11/13 01:46 PM
The BIG 3 ( Ford, GM and Chrysler) ALL plumb the FRONT ( fluid output) side to the TOP of the radiator trans cooler and the BOTTOM ( return) goes back to the transmission REAR inlet.. THEY ALL DO IT THAT WAY !!! Theory all you want,,, that's how the DETROIT engineering people FIGURED IT OUT !!!.
Posted By: dusturbd340W5
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/11/13 09:37 PM
and we all know that engineers are perfect and there way is the only way it will work.
Posted By: rickraw
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/11/13 09:45 PM
The op never mentioned if he was going to use the rad cooler or not. That would make a difference.
Posted By: Leon441
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/11/13 11:48 PM
I just gotta get in to this little debate. Not only does hot air rise but heat rises. Those overhead LP gas heater reflect the heat. Little different and not good for an example.
An old tractor or truly antique car. No water pump. How does it work. The hot water rises in the block. The hot water cools in the radiator and flows right out the bottom back into the block. No pump just heat or loss of heat making the water flow.
Leon
Posted By: dizuster
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/12/13 12:18 AM
You guys are confusing issues here...
First of all heat DOES NOT RISE. There is nothing special in "heat" that makes it defy gravity.
The reason a hot air baloon rises is because when the air is heated, it expands and becomes less dense. The lower density air "floats" on the high density air. So the hot air goes "up".
Same thing happens in fluids. The hot fluid expands and is less dense, and therefore rises.
Heat through a solid body does not cause any change in density. Solid fins on a trans cooler do not change position. Nothing is "flowing" like happens in air or fluid.
The reason that radiators flow trans fluid from bottom is because of a principal called counter current heat exchange. This is because the hottest water can cool the very hot trans fluid effectively. The trans fluid can only be as cool as the last point of coolant temperature that it exits. It's more effective if it exits at the lower point where it's coldest.
The question at hand about trans fluid through a normal (non-coolant heater exhange like a radiator) does not apply to "heat rises" or "the OEM did it like this."
The direction on a finned fluid to air cooler does not matter at all.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/12/13 01:57 AM
Quote:
You guys are confusing issues here...
First of all heat DOES NOT RISE. There is nothing special in "heat" that makes it defy gravity.
The reason a hot air baloon rises is because when the air is heated, it expands and becomes less dense. The lower density air "floats" on the high density air. So the hot air goes "up".
Same thing happens in fluids. The hot fluid expands and is less dense, and therefore rises.
Heat through a solid body does not cause any change in density. Solid fins on a trans cooler do not change position. Nothing is "flowing" like happens in air or fluid.
The reason that radiators flow trans fluid from bottom is because of a principal called counter current heat exchange. This is because the hottest water can cool the very hot trans fluid effectively. The trans fluid can only be as cool as the last point of coolant temperature that it exits. It's more effective if it exits at the lower point where it's coldest.
The question at hand about trans fluid through a normal (non-coolant heater exhange like a radiator) does not apply to "heat rises" or "the OEM did it like this."
The direction on a finned fluid to air cooler does not matter at all.
Call it what ever you want... hot air goes UP and
yes I know about the density
Posted By: Crizila
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/12/13 02:22 AM
Quote:
Quote:
You guys are confusing issues here...
First of all heat DOES NOT RISE. There is nothing special in "heat" that makes it defy gravity.
The reason a hot air baloon rises is because when the air is heated, it expands and becomes less dense. The lower density air "floats" on the high density air. So the hot air goes "up".
Same thing happens in fluids. The hot fluid expands and is less dense, and therefore rises.
Heat through a solid body does not cause any change in density. Solid fins on a trans cooler do not change position. Nothing is "flowing" like happens in air or fluid.
The reason that radiators flow trans fluid from bottom is because of a principal called counter current heat exchange. This is because the hottest water can cool the very hot trans fluid effectively. The trans fluid can only be as cool as the last point of coolant temperature that it exits. It's more effective if it exits at the lower point where it's coldest.
The question at hand about trans fluid through a normal (non-coolant heater exhange like a radiator) does not apply to "heat rises" or "the OEM did it like this."
The direction on a finned fluid to air cooler does not matter at all.
Call it what ever you want... hot air goes UP and
yes I know about the density
Proof: " Cheech & Chong and 'UP' in smoke". 
Posted By: Leigh
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/12/13 02:57 AM
Cooler outlet always on top. If not, after sitting, gravity drain effect will cause slow converter charge, pan overfill and potential manual lever seal leaks.
Posted By: cudaman1969
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/12/13 04:49 AM
Here's another curve ball, there is no such thing as cold, just absence of heat.
Posted By: Twostick
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/12/13 05:34 AM
Someone else that wasn't asleep in science class.
Kevin
Posted By: max_maniac
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/12/13 01:19 PM
And here is another twist ------
I have an external trans cooler and both hookups are facing down
Should the front hose go to the left down facing connection or the right down facing connection
Just want to get it right..................
Russ
Posted By: tubtar
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/12/13 01:48 PM
Quote:
And here is another twist ------
I have an external trans cooler and both hookups are facing down Should the front hose go to the left down facing connection or the right down facing connection
Just want to get it right..................
Russ
Here is where you MUST take a scientific approach.
I'd suggest either a coin toss , or eeenie ,meenie , miney , moe..........
These empirical methods will never let you down.
Posted By: modelmakerinc
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/12/13 02:12 PM
Posted By: dartman366
Re: Transmission cooler line question - 07/12/13 03:11 PM
Quote:
Quote:
And here is another twist ------
I have an external trans cooler and both hookups are facing down Should the front hose go to the left down facing connection or the right down facing connection
Just want to get it right..................
Russ
Here is where you MUST take a scientific approach.
I'd suggest either a coin toss , or eeenie ,meenie , miney , moe..........
These empirical methods will never let you down.
I have seen them laying flat on the back of dragsters with the inlet/outlet pointing toward the front also, just like I said before,,,it don't matter, as long as you get air flow across it,,we could sit here and debate this till the cow's come home.
