Moparts

Cam not fitting into cam bearing

Posted By: ProSport

Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 11:42 AM

My camshaft slid all the way in til it got to the cam bearing on the front of the motor. Cam and cam bearing both measure 1.98, should I try another front cam bearing or have the cam journal shaved about .005 in a lathe?
I've never seen this before and I've wasted 2 rare free days from baseball trying to polish this cam journal.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 12:44 PM

You just need to size the bearings.. I use a old cam
that has a slot cut into it on each bearing
jourmal for sizing... slide it in and I spin it with
my impact wrench
Posted By: ProSport

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 01:39 PM

That sounds brutal lol. Won't that take the coating off the cam bearing?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 01:48 PM

Quote:

That sounds brutal lol. Won't that take the coating off the cam bearing?




Yep... The big name shops do the same thing.. if you
have a mopar shop around you they might loan out their
cam sizer to you
Posted By: Clanton

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 01:50 PM

Did you turn the cam around and just try the big end in there?I think you should buy an uncoated set and use just the 1 from it and if that does not help then clearance it.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 02:06 PM

Quote:

My camshaft slid all the way in til it got to the cam bearing on the front of the motor. Cam and cam bearing both measure 1.98, should I try another front cam bearing or have the cam journal shaved about .005 in a lathe?
I've never seen this before and I've wasted 2 rare free days from baseball trying to polish this cam journal.




As said above me did you spin the cam around to confirm it is the front journal hanging you up?

Who installed the bearings and how was the front bearing installed , from the front or with the tool installed thru the rear?

I used to have a tool like Mr. P describes until I ruined a bunch of bearings replacing a couple of bearings after I sized them all initially with that tool.

Should you decide to make a tool that way the first thing you need to do is confirm the tool(cam) is absolutely straight.
Posted By: Stanton

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 02:20 PM

First pull the cam and flip it and test fit to see if that bearing is really the issue. If the cam fits the bearing, wobble the cam around a little just to seat the bearing. Now try installing it again. If it still won't just slide in, use a bit of pressure while turning it - you want to have it start in the bearing and leave a mark where its tight. Now pull it out, find the tight spot and scrape it down or sand with emery cloth.

Cam bearings are not terribly critical as far as their finish goes as long as they're not extremely loose or extremely tight. Remember, the cam only spins at half the engine speed and doesn't get the punishment main bearings have to take.

Oh, do NOT mess with the cam !!!
Posted By: Bad340fish

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 02:26 PM

I just had the same issue but I had to take the block back to the shop for something else so i didn't mess with it at home. It appears my shop honed the cam bearings with something very fine. They almost look untouched until you look at them real close. The came fits perfect now.
Posted By: MoParFish

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 02:40 PM

I had a similar problem with with SP bearings. Cam got stuck real bad. Couldn't get to fit all the way in without lots of shaving. Figured I installed them wrong Pulled em out and installed a set of Durabond PDP-17 (uncoated) bearings after reading a couple other posts here. I used the same tool and method I had installed the others and cam slid right in with no clearancing whatsoever. My block was baked and heard that can add to the problem too??

Attached picture 7756792-c5.jpg
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 03:01 PM

Quote:



Oh, do NOT mess with the cam !!!




polishing the cam journal is not the way to correct this.

I used a 320 grit medium density flap wheel to clean the #5 bearing so the cam would fit and it fit all the other bearings fine.

When I originally put the cam in it did the same thing, fit it till it came time to seat it fully making one think it's the front bearing that is the problem when the came is finally seating itself into all the bearings at basically the same time.
Posted By: Jeremiah

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 03:35 PM

Who installed the cam bearings...that is a good place to start. If they are crooked in the bores you will have that problem. If you knock that bearing out (if you have the tool) it will have witness marks indicating it was no in the bore straight. Otherwise it's time for a hone as said above.
Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 03:44 PM

I'm a hack, but got my cam in my 440 rebuild to spin nicely with just a brake hone and some WD-40.
Posted By: MuscleMike

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 04:22 PM

Cure the problem, not the symptom! This is a short article taht describes the root cause and proper solution for camshafts not turning in factory Mopar blocks.

http://musclemotorsracing.com/muscle-mike-blog/82-the-real-reason-my-cam-wont-turn.html
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 05:00 PM

Quote:

Cure the problem, not the symptom! This is a short article taht describes the root cause and proper solution for camshafts not turning in factory Mopar blocks.

http://musclemotorsracing.com/muscle-mike-blog/82-the-real-reason-my-cam-wont-turn.html


Mopar miss the boat on te cam tunnel finishing to the correct size
Posted By: dartman366

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 05:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Cure the problem, not the symptom! This is a short article taht describes the root cause and proper solution for camshafts not turning in factory Mopar blocks.

http://musclemotorsracing.com/muscle-mike-blog/82-the-real-reason-my-cam-wont-turn.html


Mopar miss the boat on te cam tunnel finishing to the correct size


small blocks have the same problem, had a 318 once that it happened to and the shop at the time told me to use the old cam with grooves filed into the journal and ream it to size,,I looked at the guy like he was out of his mind,I did it, it worked, but I didn't like it as it made the bearing surface rough,,the guy that does my work now fixes the problem if it occures as Mike explained and makes sure everything fit's as it is supposed to,,,,engine builders that know how to fix things right,,,,,,,priceless!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 05:21 PM

Obviously this would apply to new after market blocks as well, correct?
Posted By: Stanton

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 06:08 PM

Quote:

My block was baked and heard that can add to the problem too




Really ?!?!?! After all the heat cycles its been through you think baking is gonna cause problems ???
Posted By: Stanton

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 06:18 PM

Quote:

http://musclemotorsracing.com/muscle-mike-blog/82-the-real-reason-my-cam-wont-turn.html




Really ?!?! So what did the factory do, specify all cam journals be ground undersize? Or did they hone the bearings? Or did they just pound in the cams and hope for the best?

I suppose this MM solution is the best if you're sending out a bare block to be done but most times we're already well beyond that stage when we're installing the cam and this solution is pretty much out of the question. There's nothing wrong with scraping or sanding a cam bearing to fit. Personally I don't like the hone idea unless you're sure material needs to be removed from the whole i.d. but in most case its usually hung up on a small area.
Posted By: Jeremiah

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 06:30 PM

Quote:

Cure the problem, not the symptom! This is a short article taht describes the root cause and proper solution for camshafts not turning in factory Mopar blocks.

http://musclemotorsracing.com/muscle-mike-blog/82-the-real-reason-my-cam-wont-turn.html




Thank you, I will follow that advice on my 511's that are going together.
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 06:39 PM

I never had an issue with a small block mopar but I know several other that say its a BIG issue on small block fords.
Posted By: ProSport

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 06:49 PM

Yes I did flip the cam around and try it, no go.
Short block was done by a shop and he test fit his cam, I should have given him my cam but I've never had this problem.
Posted By: MoParFish

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 08:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My block was baked and heard that can add to the problem too




Really ?!?!?! After all the heat cycles its been through you think baking is gonna cause problems ???


Yeah, I forget where I heard that Please disregard
Posted By: dodge596266

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 09:42 PM

listen to Mr P body had same issue turned my stock cam into a tool like he said only I used a ratchet
Its a big block casting thing
Mike
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 10:16 PM

Quote:

listen to Mr P body had same issue turned my stock cam into a tool like he said only I used a ratchet
Its a big block casting thing
Mike


Rat-0n! Here's mine.

Attached picture 7757279-cambrgtool.jpg
Posted By: ProSport

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 10:55 PM

Well, some very light brake honing for a few seconds made the bearing fit perfect, so I turn the cam back around the correct way and slid it in.......it's now getting stuck on another bearing.

So now I have no idea what to do, I might run to Summit tonite and compare my journal sizes to a new cam. My short block is completely assembled so I can't really use the grooved camshaft method that you guys are talking about as it would put shavings in my motor.

My engine guy said his friend has a shop in Oberlin Ohio where he made a tool that goes in and slightly crushes the bearing to get proper clearance, but that shop is 90 minutes from my house each way and obviously I'd have to load up the short block and take it with me. Really frustrated and starting to realize why I sold everything 2 years ago and bought a supercharged mustang. That got boring so I bought this project car.
Posted By: ProSport

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 10:56 PM

By the way, a quick digital reading of my 5 cam journals is:

1.73
1.93
1.95
1.96
1.98
Posted By: roadhazard

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 11:02 PM

Your buddy must be talking about Paul @ P.C. Automotive?

Sorry I don't have any cams to measure for you

Just be you sold that Moostang and went back to some real muscle

Slow down, have a it will all come together
Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/27/13 11:22 PM

Really ?!?! So what did the factory do, specify all cam journals be ground undersize? Or did they hone the bearings? Or did they just pound in the cams and hope for the best?

No, they didnt care. They would install the cam bearings and bore them out afterwards, so if they were off a touch, it didnt matter. The cam bearings were then bored straight, but the parent material of the cam bores wasnt necesarily straight! No problem till you went onto cam bearing set #2 of some pooor unsuspecting mechanic ....

Mikes way is the right way to do it, and not everyone CAN do it, so its a great idea if you can go that route. As far as cam journals go, its very rare that they are sized THAT much off, but yes, I can say its happened. I have some roller cams that I have taken to the crank grinder and had .001 taken off the journals, so it does hapen, but again, its very rare, and I'd wager 99% of the time unneccesary. Its almost always a bad bore job from factory, and quite often a bad bearing install by the shop, If they use a rubber style installer, if you dont keep it tight against the outer edge of the bearing, you'll most likely have an issue. I you have a aluminum solid spacer type, usually less of a chance, and I always put a wrap of tape around them, and they work out great.

This is absolutley a much bigger problem in BBM than the small blocks, but they have their issues as well. A lot of shops charge extra to put BBM cam bearings in, because they CAN be a royal pain. We also arent blessed with as stout of a bearing shell as say a BBC. I do a fair amount of Chevies as well, and there is never the prblems like there is with a BBM. That being said, GM did a lot of oversize and undersize stuff too. Just went to do some block work on a 400SBC, and the mandrel wouldnt fit thru the cam bores. Check the bore, sure enough, its undersized. So, its not just Mopars. The difference is we dont have all the over and under size ebaring options.

Also, one BIG area of concern is you guys polishing, cutting and scraping bearings AFTER the engine is partially assembled, or more importantly AFTER the blcok has been final washed. The lips behind a cam bearing hold a tremendous amount of grit and dirt. If your are doing this and the block has oil or solvent in it, your asking for trouble. Now I know, 28,000 people will come on here and say, " hey, I did it, and my engine is still runnning". I know..I know, but I am here to tell you, take a REAL good look at thos areas. They hold a lot of grit, and I have seen a ton of guys start up engines after they have done some work on them, and that grit is what killed them. Be very careful and clean those edges good. Carry on....
Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/28/13 12:09 AM

Bob it's time to disassemble the shortblock and put a grooved cam in there to get it going. Call me if you need help with this project I may be able to find a grooved cam locally. You will want to do it right and wash it out with brushes and the whole deal.
Call me if you need me Bob 330 256 1881
Gus
Posted By: ProSport

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/28/13 12:19 AM

Yes it is Paul at PC Auto my engine guy was talking about.
If I dont get this figured out or get another cam that measures different the short block will be going back to my engine guy, he said he'd take care of it.

Did I mention I dont have time for any of this?
Posted By: 85_Ram_4speed

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/28/13 02:16 AM

Quote:

Really ?!?! So what did the factory do, specify all cam journals be ground undersize? Or did they hone the bearings? Or did they just pound in the cams and hope for the best?

No, they didnt care. They would install the cam bearings and bore them out afterwards, so if they were off a touch, it didnt matter. The cam bearings were then bored straight, but the parent material of the cam bores wasnt necesarily straight! No problem till you went onto cam bearing set #2 of some pooor unsuspecting mechanic ....

Mikes way is the right way to do it, and not everyone CAN do it, so its a great idea if you can go that route. As far as cam journals go, its very rare that they are sized THAT much off, but yes, I can say its happened. I have some roller cams that I have taken to the crank grinder and had .001 taken off the journals, so it does hapen, but again, its very rare, and I'd wager 99% of the time unneccesary. Its almost always a bad bore job from factory, and quite often a bad bearing install by the shop, If they use a rubber style installer, if you dont keep it tight against the outer edge of the bearing, you'll most likely have an issue. I you have a aluminum solid spacer type, usually less of a chance, and I always put a wrap of tape around them, and they work out great.

This is absolutley a much bigger problem in BBM than the small blocks, but they have their issues as well. A lot of shops charge extra to put BBM cam bearings in, because they CAN be a royal pain. We also arent blessed with as stout of a bearing shell as say a BBC. I do a fair amount of Chevies as well, and there is never the prblems like there is with a BBM. That being said, GM did a lot of oversize and undersize stuff too. Just went to do some block work on a 400SBC, and the mandrel wouldnt fit thru the cam bores. Check the bore, sure enough, its undersized. So, its not just Mopars. The difference is we dont have all the over and under size ebaring options.

Also, one BIG area of concern is you guys polishing, cutting and scraping bearings AFTER the engine is partially assembled, or more importantly AFTER the blcok has been final washed. The lips behind a cam bearing hold a tremendous amount of grit and dirt. If your are doing this and the block has oil or solvent in it, your asking for trouble. Now I know, 28,000 people will come on here and say, " hey, I did it, and my engine is still runnning". I know..I know, but I am here to tell you, take a REAL good look at thos areas. They hold a lot of grit, and I have seen a ton of guys start up engines after they have done some work on them, and that grit is what killed them. Be very careful and clean those edges good. Carry on....




I know you touch WAAYYY more engines than I do, but I have found very similar issues between brands of engines. BBM for me seem to be the worst, BBC seem to be the best.

And for the reasons you specify in your last statement, I install the bearings, check the cam fitment, do any scraping and polishing then reclean the block. I was burned 1 time, never again, to much time lost disassembling everything and then having to put it all back togther to get those nooks and cranies clean around the cam bearings.
Posted By: 383man

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/28/13 02:36 AM

I had that happen to me with my 493. The cam would get to tight and had to be tapped in. I did not like it and removed the cam bearings one at a time as I had installed them myself. When I found the one causing the problem I looked close and found a piece of eng casting had rolled over and got behind the bearing between the bearing backside and the block which raised the bearing surface just enough at that point to make the cam bind up. I could see the scratch on the back of the cam bearing also when I looked real close. I cleaned the casting off and honed the cam hole and reinstalled all the cam bearings and all was fine. Good luck with it as it can be a pain when you get these problems we dont need. Ron
Posted By: b1dartsport

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/28/13 04:54 AM

Bob, I had the same problem with a resto block about 5 yrs ago. I pulled all of the cam bearings, ran a light force brake hone in each bore for about a minute each. I replaced the cam bearings and everything spun real nice. Also what I have seen in the past depending on what bearing install tool you are using, sometimes a small ridge forms on the outside of the bearing, thats when the old cam with a groove in it trick works well.-Randy
Posted By: Mrbill69

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/28/13 02:02 PM

Skotchbrite
Posted By: ProSport

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/29/13 01:21 AM

Does anyone have a BB cam laying around that you could measure and compare to the numbers I posted?

My engine builder offered to take it apart, fit my cam, clean everything and put it back together at no charge. Now that is a great guy to do business with.

Just gotta find time to get the motor to him soon.
Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/29/13 02:36 AM

Quote:

Does anyone have a BB cam laying around that you could measure and compare to the numbers I posted?

My engine builder offered to take it apart, fit my cam, clean everything and put it back together at no charge. Now that is a great guy to do business with.

Just gotta find time to get the motor to him soon.





I didnt go re read all this...what brand and style cam?
Posted By: ProSport

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/29/13 09:47 AM

It's an Ultradyne 640 lift solid flat tappet for big block.
Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/29/13 02:13 PM

I just changed out a .640 U/D, so I thought i still had it here, but must have gave it back to him.

Fresh custom ground Comp solid,right out of the package:

#1 1.9995
#2 1.9826
#3 1.9675
#4 1.9519
#5 1.7739
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/29/13 02:28 PM

Quote:

I just changed out a .640 U/D, so I thought i still had it here, but must have gave it back to him.

Fresh custom ground Comp solid,right out of the package:

#1 1.9995
#2 1.9826
#3 1.9675
#4 1.9519
#5 1.7739




given those numbers and his from above ...

1.98
1.96
1.95
1.93
1.73

Bob should have been able to throw his cam in from across the room

I'm going to guess difference in measuring tools .

Bob I would take the shop up on his offer , he should have asked you for a cam when you dropped off the block for the build I think. Has your cam been checked to see if it's bent ?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/29/13 02:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I just changed out a .640 U/D, so I thought i still had it here, but must have gave it back to him.

Fresh custom ground Comp solid,right out of the package:

#1 1.9995
#2 1.9826
#3 1.9675
#4 1.9519
#5 1.7739




given those numbers and his from above ...

1.73
1.93
1.95
1.96
1.98

Bob should have been able to throw his cam in from across the room

I'm going to guess difference in measuring tools .

Bob I would take the shop up on his offer , he should have asked you for a cam when you dropped off the block for the build I think. Has your cam been checked to see if it's bent ?




Those clearances dont add up... that would be a TON
of clearance on each journal
Posted By: 10secGTX

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/29/13 03:01 PM

I mentioned this to a friend who built my engine and engines for a living ....he said BB Mopars are famous for this ...he will put one bearing in and test then the next and fit cam ...and so on....Bob for peace of mind just take it back to your guy
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/29/13 06:59 PM

Quote:

I mentioned this to a friend who built my engine and engines for a living ....he said BB Mopars are famous for this ...he will put one bearing in and test then the next and fit cam ...and so on....Bob for peace of mind just take it back to your guy




That's the advice I was given, after doing it with the last block I messed with it was only one bearing that needed clearance, but using the tool I made from a cam had cut all the bearings ???
Posted By: Performance Only

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/29/13 10:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I just changed out a .640 U/D, so I thought i still had it here, but must have gave it back to him.

Fresh custom ground Comp solid,right out of the package:

#1 1.9995
#2 1.9826
#3 1.9675
#4 1.9519
#5 1.7739




given those numbers and his from above ...

1.73
1.93
1.95
1.96
1.98

Bob should have been able to throw his cam in from across the room

I'm going to guess difference in measuring tools .

Bob I would take the shop up on his offer , he should have asked you for a cam when you dropped off the block for the build I think. Has your cam been checked to see if it's bent ?




Those clearances dont add up... that would be a TON
of clearance on each journal





My guess would be someone is using a micrometer and someone else might be using a vernier caliper or a poorly calibrated mic.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/30/13 02:28 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I just changed out a .640 U/D, so I thought i still had it here, but must have gave it back to him.

Fresh custom ground Comp solid,right out of the package:

#1 1.9995
#2 1.9826
#3 1.9675
#4 1.9519
#5 1.7739




given those numbers and his from above ...

1.98
1.96
1.95
1.93
1.73

Bob should have been able to throw his cam in from across the room

I'm going to guess difference in measuring tools .

Bob I would take the shop up on his offer , he should have asked you for a cam when you dropped off the block for the build I think. Has your cam been checked to see if it's bent ?




Those clearances dont add up... that would be a TON
of clearance on each journal





My guess would be someone is using a micrometer and someone else might be using a vernier caliper or a poorly calibrated mic.




I was thinking the same thing , but still that is a big difference ...
Posted By: Sport440

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/30/13 04:21 AM

Quote:

By the way, a quick digital reading of my 5 cam journals is:

1.73
1.93
1.95
1.96
1.98





First, your cam jounals arent the problem, you will need to clearence the bearings. Very common problem with the Big blocks, as you are now learning.

Since your assembled, the only fix is to take out each bearing, hone, reinstall and test fit the cam. Probably over and over again, untill it fits.

The problem is, is that you cant hone the bearing to fit the cam journal and then install it in the block and expect it to work. The blocks journal will force its own perimeters on the pre fit honed bearing, changing the actual fit.

The best way is to clearence the bearing as it is installed before the final assembly.

As far as measurements of the cam journals goes, I measured two cams one 73 factory and one a MP .590 cam

They measured very close to each other. Your cams journal measurements are on the small side compared to my measurements.

I really dont need to post these , but I will

Factory -- MP .590
1.75---------1.749
1.95---------1.95
1.96---------1.97
1.98---------1.98
1.99---------1.99

Posted By: Sport440

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 06/30/13 05:14 AM

Bob, I know you stated you have no time for this, So , I know the engine is going back to the builder.


Besides that, whats the new combo?? What cam are you sticking in?? You put together one heck of a MP 590 combo 452 ci before, what do you have coming together now?? Im going to guess, something just abit milder
Posted By: ProSport

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 07/01/13 04:10 PM

Thanks guys, great info, engine guy is gonna take care of it.

Mike, its a 10 to 1 compression 500" low deck with all new good parts, main stud girdle, cnc max wedge Eddy's, Indy single plane, Ultradyne 640 solid, Harland Sharps etc. Hoping for a pump gas cruiser that can drive to the track, have fun and drive home with 3.55 gears, full interior, 9.5" converter.....
Posted By: viperblue72

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 07/02/13 01:15 AM

Quote:

Thanks guys, great info, engine guy is gonna take care of it.

Mike, its a 10 to 1 compression 500" low deck with all new good parts, main stud girdle, cnc max wedge Eddy's, Indy single plane, Ultradyne 640 solid, Harland Sharps etc. Hoping for a pump gas cruiser that can drive to the track, have fun and drive home with 3.55 gears, full interior, 9.5" converter.....




Sounds like low 10s and drive home.
Posted By: dwpracing

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 07/02/13 10:42 PM

Like Mr P Body said is to us a old cam and cut groove in it and it will work for you and throw the number out
Posted By: ProSport

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 07/26/13 10:41 PM

Update: I bought a set of used cnc ported max wedge bb Edelbrock heads and Indy intake. The guy told me for another $100 he'd sell me his cam and lifters.

The shop called me today and said the cam is 3 degrees bent. that's why it wont slide in.

Time to save up for new cam and lifters.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 07/27/13 12:14 AM

Quote:

Update: I bought a set of used cnc ported max wedge bb Edelbrock heads and Indy intake. The guy told me for another $100 he'd sell me his cam and lifters.

The shop called me today and said the cam is 3 degrees bent. that's why it wont slide in.

Time to save up for new cam and lifters.




Was it a NEW or used cam ? If it was used you shouldn't be surprised ...

Either way that sux ...
Posted By: ProSport

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 07/27/13 02:28 AM

Used, my mistake for sure. Lesson learned, I'll just wait and get a new one.
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 07/27/13 05:12 AM

You guys are funny not wanting to buy a used cam. I wish you guys were with me when I toured Crane Cams in Florida years ago. Lesson of a life-time.
Posted By: roadhazard

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 07/27/13 02:13 PM

Bob it's obvious your shop took the time to find the Root Cause of the problem

Don't know if many around here would take the time or have the sense to find such an oddity

Did you buy RPM's or Victor's?
Posted By: dodgeboy11

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 07/27/13 05:10 PM

May have already been addressed but I got tired of reading responses. Prior to installing the bearings I like to use an 1/8" mandrel, long enough to reach the center cam journal with some medium to fine sandpaper in the slot on the end. Pre polish the cam bearing bores in the block to remove any burrs that might cause the bearing to shrink in the bore. Obviously don't remove too much material or the bearings won't have sufficient press to stay in the block. I like to take the leading edge of the cam bearing and knock the edge between the chamfer and the outer bearing surface down. It looks like the chamfer should be enough to prevent metal from pulling off the bearing, but it isn't. I take a razor blade or bearing knife and just lightly chamfer the leading and trailing edges of the bearings. I've seen a few bearings with a slight edge on them. I still end up on a few engines having to run the sandpaper mandrel through the bearings themselves. Done the cam with the diagonal slots cut into them. That's the last thing I do if nothing else works and then use some green scotch brite on the mandrel to polish the bearings and make them look new again. Also, once the cam is installed, if it spins freely through part of the rotation but gets tight partway through, it's a camshaft problem. Try a different cam. This is such a problem that at the shop I worked at we would install cam bearings in the block first and make sure the cam fits before any further assembly was completed.
Posted By: Sport440

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 07/27/13 05:16 PM

Hold your horses here on that diagnostic. Even with a cam thats slightly bent you will be able to get it slid in.

As was earlier posted, Bob, did the flip test and it was still a No go as Bob put it. The flip test totally eliminated any bend factor. The cam could of been bent 90* He was only test fitting the front bearing. Still, No Go!

Bobs flip test showed that at least the front bearing was to tight. Others may still be also.

The cam may be bent 3* , but thats not the only issue. A new cam wont fix it if the above tests were done.


Almost all the BB,s with new cam bearings will have fitment issues.
Posted By: ProSport

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 07/27/13 11:45 PM

Quote:

You guys are funny not wanting to buy a used cam. I wish you guys were with me when I toured Crane Cams in Florida years ago. Lesson of a life-time.




This Ultradyne 640 cam supposedly came out of running low 10 second motor, he said he switched to a roller cam setup and didn't need this one anymore. I liked the idea of it being broke in already and having the matching lifters. Too many new cam failure stories these days.
Posted By: ProSport

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 07/27/13 11:47 PM

Greg, they are RPM heads.

Mike, I'm just gonna have to pick up a new cam at Summit and test fit it, and go from there.
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 07/27/13 11:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

You guys are funny not wanting to buy a used cam. I wish you guys were with me when I toured Crane Cams in Florida years ago. Lesson of a life-time.




This Ultradyne 640 cam supposedly came out of running low 10 second motor, he said he switched to a roller cam setup and didn't need this one anymore. I liked the idea of it being broke in already and having the matching lifters. Too many new cam failure stories these days.




Unless its a roller cam even if the lifters are matched there are no guarantees of a cam not wiping out when going to a different block. Ask Dan (performance only) how each block is different in its own way.
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 07/28/13 12:01 AM

And as i found out by taking a tour thru a cam manufacturer I saw push-rods being straightened with a hammer and cams straightened with an air chisel.
Posted By: 10secGTX

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 07/28/13 03:57 AM

Quote:

And as i found out by taking a tour thru a cam manufacturer I saw push-rods being straightened with a hammer and cams straightened with an air chisel.
Quote:



Well if this was how crane did it ..Im sure Comp is not far behind in QUALITY CONTROL
Posted By: goldmember

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 07/28/13 04:38 AM

The air chisel trick is common and very quick way to take care of a bent camshaft. I've seen it done at several big cam companies and the first time it worried me,now I just stand back and smile. I pound metal into shape daily so I guess I shouldn't be suprised that a simple process is used to correct a simple issue. It's not so uncommon to find a cam bent as they do get banged around in shipment,etc.I bet many cams in use are bent,just not enough to catch without the proper tools.
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 07/28/13 05:23 AM

I have personally straightened mildly bent pushrods to get thru a days racing and if I had a cam that was only bent .003 it would go in my freezer for 24 hours and checked again and if it was still out it wouldn't be for long.
Posted By: roadhazard

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 07/28/13 02:43 PM

.640 Ultradyne?????????
I thought you were building a street motor

BTW now that Pittsburgh racer mentions it you did try to slide just the front journal in without much luck
Posted By: Sport440

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 07/29/13 02:28 AM

Quote:

Greg, they are RPM heads.

Mike, I'm just gonna have to pick up a new cam at Summit and test fit it, and go from there.




Bob, I have like 5 cams here, two new and a few used. No need to buy a new cam to test fit. Come on by and borrow a few if you want. Just dont run over my mail box.

Im sure you have a tight bearing issue, that 3* bend is a non issue IMO.
Posted By: ProSport

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 08/03/13 06:03 PM

Well I tried a couple cams from Sport440 and they slid right in.

Engine shop said my used cam was bent and had some beat up lobes. I text the guy I got the cam and lifters from to ask if he had any catastrophic damage to his motor and he said no. After I found out the cam was bent I text him again and no answer back. His name is Tim Falbe from Muskegon Michigan, do any of you race with him? He did a really nice job of packaging up the heads, intake, and cam. I'm just wondering what happened with this cam, it was packaged pretty good to have been beat up in shipping. The lifters also have a couple chips in the bottom of them.

I'm buying an MP 557 purpleshaft from Sport440, already degree'd it in, gonna pick up a new set of lifters and get this engine done! Finally some progress, and I really did not need that big 640 cam for a street driver.


Edit: His name is Tim Falbe, I think the box said Fred Kaiser because he shipped it from work or something.
Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 08/03/13 06:20 PM

Sounds great Bob are you shooting for Norwalk? I'm on the fence about racing the the stick race .My belts are expired so it's gonna cost me over 2 bills with my race entry new belts for a few passes on Saturday
Gus

Attached picture 7801053-rearviewsavoy.jpg
Posted By: ProSport

Re: Cam not fitting into cam bearing - 08/04/13 02:40 PM

Gus I'm shooting for next spring to get this car done.

I still have alot of stuff to buy, there's not a single wire in the car, headliner needs installed(which I am completely failing at), no interior in it, paint still needs buffed etc etc.

This car will probably never see a track, way too busy with work and I concentrate all my spare time on this little guy.

Attached picture 7801861-IMAG1275resized.jpg
© 2024 Moparts Forums